[SPEAKER_03]: If you're listening to the intentional parents podcast, brought to you by Intentional.

[SPEAKER_03]: Intentional is all about spiritual formation in the family.

[SPEAKER_03]: We desire to bring biblical hope and practical hope.

[SPEAKER_03]: Enjoy this week's conversation.

[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back to the Intentional Parents podcast.

[SPEAKER_03]: Raising our kids in a click, bait, culture.

[SPEAKER_03]: How do we know it's real?

[SPEAKER_03]: What's important?

[SPEAKER_03]: What's not?

[SPEAKER_03]: How do we actually think through raising critical thinkers?

[SPEAKER_03]: How do we raise kids in an emotionally driven outrage, loving culture?

[SPEAKER_03]: And what does the Bible actually call a sound mind?

[SPEAKER_03]: What does that mean?

[SPEAKER_03]: That's the stuff we're gonna touch on today.

[SPEAKER_03]: and couldn't be more happy to do that with my co-host, my partner in life, my shoe matching wife, hold on a second.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was a bit high.

[SPEAKER_03]: I hope I hope you can see this on YouTube.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're matching to that.

[SPEAKER_00]: What happens the longer you married, the more you match, it just...

Hey.

[SPEAKER_00]: Happens.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm fine to match with you.

[SPEAKER_03]: You are not fine to match me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not fine to be with you.

[SPEAKER_03]: If we, if we come out wearing something similar, I'm fine with it.

[SPEAKER_03]: You are not fine with it.

[SPEAKER_03]: It actually creates a lot of tension, especially when we speak together, if we're like, we actually have to talk about this.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I mean, like right now.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like we need to process this, um, no, but today, really looking forward to this conversation.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's a scripture.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's a quote.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Let's talk about raising our kids in a clickbait culture.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it was a bit, I think.

[SPEAKER_03]: We have some scripture for this for sure, but I'll just read one scripture, but I want you to share a story.

[SPEAKER_03]: So obviously, one highlight, this is highly biblical.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is what the scriptures would call a sound mind.

[SPEAKER_03]: Second Timothy 1, 7, God gave us a spirit of power, love, and a sound mind.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we're gonna kind of get into what some of that means, but I think a story might help set this up of where this is coming from and why we're actually talking about it today.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's coming from just maybe some themes we've been seeing with our older kids and then a really great conversation.

[SPEAKER_00]: I had with our oldest.

[SPEAKER_00]: So our older two are both teenagers, one of whom goes to public high school.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's a sophomore and [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it feels like every week there's some major current event or tragedy happening.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he doesn't have social media or access to internet on his phone, but he goes to a school with 1300 other kids who do.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so he will oftentimes something will happen while he's at school and he will already know about it by the time he comes as a reference, not to catch you [SPEAKER_03]: When all of this just complete sadness with Charlie Kirk went down, I was trying to talk with him.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, did you hear what happened?

[SPEAKER_03]: He said, yes, before I could even do what happened, someone showed me the video of him actually being assassinated.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it was like, and so I was trying to slow down and be like, okay, you know, in this happens, right, that we know this.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I just had to slow down and like, man, what are you doing?

[SPEAKER_03]: What are the thoughts on that?

[SPEAKER_03]: And I would have thought because of all the things that we've been really specific about and intentional about around media that it would probably be a slim chance that he would see that.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I mean, just almost immediately upon it's arrival, he was able to see, I mean, he wasn't searching for it.

[SPEAKER_03]: His friend just put it in his race to do you see this and it was like, [SPEAKER_03]: And that can happen and what are our kids do with that?

[SPEAKER_03]: Cause like even though he's like, oh, you know, I think I'm okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, dude, that impacts us at a soul level.

[SPEAKER_03]: So just to highlight in regards to like, even that very real current event and how this role that was, we have to talk to our kids about that stuff and how do we do it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, what you're sharing is that I think all of us would wish we could say it's a once in a decade thing, a once in a lifetime thing that you're having to walk your kids through something like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But our kids are having to walk through this kind of stuff very, very frequently.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if they are [SPEAKER_00]: a little bit older if they're not in your home all the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of outside voices no matter how you're doing media that they are having to filter through.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we've been having just a lot of conversations about current events in our home.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I just started noticing our son was talking to us about one of them and he was sharing all of his opinions about this event.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I just started asking him questions and I just started to highlight for him.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just said, hey, but I find it interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Our current cultural moment is interesting because we have all this access to social media, to videos, to clickbait news, to shorts.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have access everywhere.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we develop our opinions about people, about events, about tragedies, about how people are [SPEAKER_00]: Based off of all of that, verses are own actual opinion, because we very well researched what happened, who the person was, formed our own opinion after following the truth of what's happened and really taken time to sit with, discerning, what do I think about this?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like we skip over all that and I was just kind of highlighting that to him of just [SPEAKER_00]: It's an interesting moment where you're telling me you have these opinions, but they're not founded in your own actual research.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he's just his eyes got kind of big.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, oh wow, you're totally right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's what's got us thinking of, I think it's always been important to help our kids think critically.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think parents have been doing it for millennia.

[SPEAKER_00]: but it feels like right now it is so much more important than it has ever been and it is harder and takes a lot more investment and intentionality because there are so many outside voices saying think this way, believe that way, think this is right, this is bad, this is it's just everywhere [SPEAKER_00]: really be critical thinkers, so that this second Timothy verse, so that they can have a spirit of power and love and sound mind.

[SPEAKER_00]: When we don't have a sound mind, when we are like tossed by the waves of the wind and everybody else's opinion, we can't really actually love all people well.

[SPEAKER_00]: We can love the people who think just like us.

[SPEAKER_00]: and who we are like on their bandwagon or they're on ours but we can't love everybody well if we don't actually have a soundmine and aren't filled with the spirit and able to discern what are the things of Jesus, what are the things of the world?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I know that language is, I don't know, been used a lot but I think it's still really important.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well maybe [SPEAKER_03]: It's so important.

[SPEAKER_03]: I actually arguably more important than ever because we have more knowledge and ability to obtain knowledge than ever, but we have very little discernment and wisdom to know how to apply the knowledge.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so, what we want to talk about is basically that part.

[SPEAKER_03]: Your kids are not going to have a struggle from here on out.

[SPEAKER_03]: Most of humanity will.

[SPEAKER_03]: Acquiring knowledge, you know, most likely there's always crazy things that could happen, of course, but pending crazy things that could happen, of course, [SPEAKER_03]: Knowledge is not going to be the thing you have to actually assert too much to find.

[SPEAKER_03]: It used to be so challenging to get a whole of knowledge.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the whole library is you think about the countless institutions that were established just so you could have knowledge.

[SPEAKER_03]: Now we can have it all within a few moments on our phones and devices which again, I want to highlight that is not all bad.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's been so many good things because of that.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then at the very same time, there is a part of that that is really challenging for a developing brain and what we want to talk about is how do we actually begin to help our kids not just think with the masses and do group think and form their opinions based upon.

[SPEAKER_03]: what a group of people say about this and never hearing the news themselves.

[SPEAKER_03]: How do we allow them to like see, understand, know what is like going on in the world and then how can we with wisdom teach them to formulate opinions that are centered on reality?

[SPEAKER_03]: That's a big one because a lot of people [SPEAKER_03]: In our current cultural moment, are trying to bend the terms of reality.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, gender's just a great example of one gender's not even a thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: Actually, there's two sexes, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: But we're trying to say, no, that there's gender in gender means like, well, that's a bending of reality where that becomes really tricky is it becomes so challenging.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, if that's based upon an opinion, [SPEAKER_03]: not based in reality what else is.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so we have to and I know no one loves to talk about this stuff and they're all like these hot button issues.

[SPEAKER_03]: At the very same time when it comes to our families and our kids, we have a responsibility really right now to help them grow in critical thinking.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so I think it's maybe let's highlight three, three different things, maybe more of why it actually matters.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Do you want to do that?

[SPEAKER_03]: Anything else before we jump into that part?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I just read something on social media of all places, our friend Jefferson Becky posted something and I saved it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wish I'd pulled it up for today, but this commentator was talking about how.

[SPEAKER_00]: to your point of that we have more knowledge than ever.

[SPEAKER_00]: He highlighted something that's like in plain sight.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was saying we also have access to the insights of people's brain thoughts and feelings more than we ever have before because of social media because people can say anything, any of their thoughts, any of their opinions that in the past would have been more filtered.

[SPEAKER_00]: They would have [SPEAKER_00]: our internal dialogue, we might be really angry with somebody, even struggle with feelings of hate toward somebody or a leader or whatever, but we would have to wrestle that within ourselves and have time to process and to calm down and all of those things before we ever actually talk to that person.

[SPEAKER_00]: And now because social media is just everyone posting their inner dialogue, [SPEAKER_00]: We have the insides of people's brains and thoughts, good and bad at all times.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think even as we talk about this, I'm thinking both through the lens of our younger kids who need to start to develop the pathways and the abilities to think critically.

[SPEAKER_00]: and we help them do that significantly by telling them what the truth is.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then as our older our kids get older, it looks a little different.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're helping them to discover what truth is, but we want them to actually be able to have the skills to discover it on their own.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we're not necessarily handing it to them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, this is what you should think, but we're trying to help them learn to think so that they can develop.

[SPEAKER_00]: That sound mind I love covers 14, 15, so it's the simple, believe anything, but the prudent give thought to their steps.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like it's that small of a difference that makes a big difference of like rather than just believing everything, actually giving thought to each step like slowing down to think.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think in such an emotionally driven culture, which we've seen, [SPEAKER_00]: So many good things happen with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've become really good at acknowledging Especially kids like acknowledging kids emotions as adults learning to acknowledge it ourselves.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's wonderful.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's really good But I think with it, we've lost some of the ability to also be able to use the logical sides of our brain and really think critically about something and not Have all the emotion cloud our judgment sometimes [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think there's a couple of things we can talk about lots really, but why do we need, like if you're sitting here going, well, why, I think we kind of have already mentioned it, but to be really specific, discernment, that idea that you've heard of the gift of discernment, it actually is a mark of a disciple.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so that's a mark of somebody who is walking with Jesus.

[SPEAKER_03]: Why?

[SPEAKER_03]: Because in their development and spiritual formation, it is a very important part of their development as a human, as a Jesus follower, to be able to have discernment, to look at different things and know right from wrong and to have the wisdom to go, that actually might seem [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's the right thing on the surface has sounds a lot like truth but is not truth and I think that those are the some of the best lies some of the best lies are almost all truth just a small amount that's a lie's 5% 10% Those are the best lies and so how do they discern that [SPEAKER_03]: And Philippians 1, 9, and 10, and this is my prayer that your love may about more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, so that you may be able to discern what is best and maybe pure and blameless for the day of Christ, fill with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's it.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's like a huge part of this.

[SPEAKER_03]: Why don't you go to the next one?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think with that discernment, it keeps all of us, and it keeps our kids from just being like swept up with the masses, which is what we're seeing left and right, and what we have to help our kids discern when they see it happening in and of themselves.

[SPEAKER_00]: Romans 12, too, do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's that like brain logic.

[SPEAKER_00]: piece that comes in, then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is.

[SPEAKER_00]: His good pleasing and perfect will.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I just think that's, I mean, we all need that, not just our kids.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that is not a like one time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we taught our kids to do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so now they're therefore able to never be swept up with the masses.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it happens to all of us, but asking God, [SPEAKER_00]: Over and over and over again, would you help me not be caught up in the patterns of this world that are so easy to get caught up in, but be transformed by the renewing of my mind, because really we want to be able to test and approve what God's will is not ours or our cultures.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and really, these things prepare them to be able to engage in current events and in tragedy and in culture, but through the lens of how Jesus would engage, and when they're able to do that, they actually become leaders of change.

[SPEAKER_00]: being able to walk the the halls of a high school and see everything that's going on, but slow themselves down to think and how am I going to love people through this, how am I going to figure out what I actually think about this and love everybody even if they think differently than me.

[SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't agree more, and I think what a lot of people are probably thinking through, as I know, I am as well, is what are some ways that we can, at least attempt, because obviously this is an ongoing process that has to be said, you need to be filled with the spirit.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: You need to have patience.

[SPEAKER_03]: And this is not one conversation.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's many ongoing day and day out.

[SPEAKER_03]: The next tragedy, the next thing, the next, you know, you work on this all the time.

[SPEAKER_03]: So this doesn't just happen in one moment.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's not one conversation.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's many micro conversations over and over and over so I think this is just for perspective That's the help.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think this even starts with young kids when they can begin to understand some of the questions or Obviously don't bring a really gnarly current event, but like in small ways you can do this even with your younger kids [SPEAKER_03]: But I think it's important to just actually talk about that.

[SPEAKER_03]: So here's just a few practical ways you can try to begin the process to teach critical thinking because it's different than just, you know, assuming we can't just assume our kids know how to critically think.

[SPEAKER_03]: We have to actually teach them how to do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Teach it and practice over a long period of time and multiple stages of development.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, they're not going to be good at it right away.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they'll be seasoned when they're really bad at it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But just thinking of, man, if this could start young and especially is important through the adolescent years, I know it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, they're in their home team.

[SPEAKER_03]: And if anyone's watching and I know they've already seen that I'm drinking out of a Starbucks cup and some of you are like, I can't believe you or great taste.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure where you land, but I know that I got a lot of haters on the West Coast believing that I would drink Starbucks on purpose.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I just want to say, [SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to clear here today that I did this on purpose.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't overthink your coffee.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't overthink my coffee.

[SPEAKER_03]: And what I love about Starbucks is especially because I travel, it's everywhere.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's consistent.

[SPEAKER_03]: I like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Don't judge.

[SPEAKER_00]: I already see everywhere.

[SPEAKER_03]: I see your judgment.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think maybe I already, I know you don't like it.

[SPEAKER_03]: You will always pass and I'm always...

[SPEAKER_03]: And the difference is between you.

[SPEAKER_00]: We say money when Starbucks is the only option.

[SPEAKER_03]: I know what the thing is that's interesting.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to derail this here, but just to say, what is interesting to me about this detail is that I am much happier by not having such strong opinions.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just going to say it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, let's move on.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's see.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, a section of opinions.

[SPEAKER_03]: Preferences.

[SPEAKER_03]: Preferences, I think.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm satisfied with this.

[SPEAKER_03]: Where might people at, please let me know.

[SPEAKER_03]: OK, so let's first think.

[SPEAKER_03]: Teach through asking questions.

[SPEAKER_03]: You have to teach through asking questions.

[SPEAKER_03]: Don't just give answers when they ask respond with, well, what do you think?

[SPEAKER_03]: How do we know what's true?

[SPEAKER_03]: Kind of what Elizabeth said.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, almost challenging a little bit in a gracious way, like, well, where do you get that information?

[SPEAKER_03]: Why do you think that's true?

[SPEAKER_03]: I think we do this.

[SPEAKER_03]: I actually do this a lot with I had a lesson seems to bring this like spicy side out of at least our kids.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think every kid.

[SPEAKER_03]: But that spicy side of like, they'll say things in a declarative tone.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then it's like, where did you hear that or?

[SPEAKER_03]: Really, like, you know, and, but they're like, yeah, well, have you ever, well, so until set.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and then when you do a little digging, and it's not even like trying to shame or make any of my feel about it's like what you do a little digging, they're like, they're back peddling pretty quick, like, well, actually don't know.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I think it's, it's not a shame thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's a, it's, hey, if you're gonna say something with authority, make sure you know what you're saying, where you've heard it, formed an opinion.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I think that's the first one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think the younger kids, you can do that a lot [SPEAKER_00]: or you're learning about something together, that's a beautiful time to ask some questions to get them thinking about, well, why do you think, or it's especially reading scripture with them?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, why do you think Jesus was so forgiving?

[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you think, like, just asking them to think deeper.

[SPEAKER_00]: Really, you're asking the questions so that they will think deeper, not so that you can tell them, just, well, here's why what you're thinking isn't true.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna tell you the answer.

[SPEAKER_00]: The point is you're teaching them to think deeper.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and then another big one is not giving immediate answers or help, like as they, even to further the asking a kid a question after you've read scripture or read a book to them, like let them wrestle a little bit because really that builds their confidence in being able to reason and to think deeper and some kids are going to be really good at this and some kids are going to be super frustrated by this or they're not going to care.

[SPEAKER_00]: But your point is you're starting to show them the need to, again, think deeper and think critically and I think with that this one has been harder for me than I think I would have expected.

[SPEAKER_00]: really letting them struggle.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't mean abandoning them when they're going through something hard and just saying, you can figure it out.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, I mean, I mean, I will never forget our first session with our behavioral therapist for birdie.

[SPEAKER_00]: And at the end of the session, like, went great.

[SPEAKER_00]: The end of the session, birdie account upstairs, and she just looks right at us, and she says, you are doing way too much for her.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what are you talking about?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because you are so used to avoiding a meltdown, which is why we were doing so much for that you're not letting her figure stuff out in struggle.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, she asked you to get almond milk out of the fridge.

[SPEAKER_00]: She was fully capable of getting the almond milk out of the fridge.

[SPEAKER_00]: She just would have had to think critically, go find a stool, move some stuff around, but she was capable of doing it herself.

[SPEAKER_00]: So her first homework to us was stop doing so much for her.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we've seen such a shift in like us shifting our mindset with that we've kind of applied it to all of our kids of like rather than just rushing in and yeah, I'm going to get the thing out of the fridge for you or I'm going to give you the answer to that school problem because you asked for help like just taking a minute.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know what?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you can figure it out.

[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, we're present there with them.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're not again.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're not abandoning them and letting them struggle beyond what they are capable of.

[SPEAKER_00]: But they are more capable to struggle and to think and figure things out than we often let them be.

[SPEAKER_00]: and rescuing them all the time really does rob them of growth, even from some of the and thinking of all the relational dynamics that happen in adolescence.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a rough time to be alive.

[SPEAKER_00]: But being present to them in the midst of those relational struggles and confusion and hurt, but not fixing it and rescuing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like obviously sometimes we do have to step in [SPEAKER_00]: Just being with them as they struggle actually helps them be able to grow and gain skills to be able to Yeah, figure something's out.

[SPEAKER_03]: Interestingly enough this morning We have we have what is the calendar we have?

[SPEAKER_00]: We have the skylight calendar.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know how to say something.

[SPEAKER_03]: We are not endorsed or have nothing given one thing from skylight.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we are happy to receive.

[SPEAKER_03]: If anyone works for them and knows them, we're happy to receive.

[SPEAKER_03]: Happy to promote.

[SPEAKER_03]: But this was just like out of necessity.

[SPEAKER_00]: And mostly for the visual schedule.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: So Elizabeth got us onto this.

[SPEAKER_03]: She loves it, loves it, loves it.

[SPEAKER_03]: But that said, our girls get to like, especially in the morning before they go off to their [SPEAKER_03]: uh, they get to check off the list and it makes it fun.

[SPEAKER_03]: They get to push the button.

[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, you know, if you know, this morning talking about the struggle, Bertie was mentioning to me, because they have to pick up.

[SPEAKER_03]: We have a dog.

[SPEAKER_03]: We have dog misses that have to get picked up on the side of the house.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's one of her jobs.

[SPEAKER_03]: And she comes to me and she's like, Dad.

[SPEAKER_03]: I figured out something and I was like, okay, you know, if you can have the struggle, we've been letting your struggle because she'll be like, well, we'll tell her how to do the dog messes.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, here's the glove, here's like, like, if I come all that, she's like, dad, I figured out something and I was like, okay, like, really excited.

[SPEAKER_03]: Because I didn't know she didn't give me the context of what she was gonna tell me.

[SPEAKER_03]: And she goes, I figured out that cold dog poop is way better than warm dog.

[SPEAKER_03]: When I was like, what are we talking about?

[SPEAKER_03]: She's like, if he goes to the bathroom and then I have to pick it up right away and I can feel the warm in my hand, I just hate it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, because they're literally using their hands with gloves, because, yeah, I don't like.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, even if you have a little, you know, a dog, you may say, it is easier.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't want to talk about it.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not trying to open this up on it.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, people are just like dying right now as you're listening.

[SPEAKER_03]: I apologize if you're driving or throwing up or you're wherever you're at.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I'm just trying to say, like, we let her step into it and she figured it out.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then what came back to me was some very interesting information.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think the next one is another practical ways to normalize changing your mind.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think you can show your kids in humility, humility and action.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like we didn't get this right.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like we didn't figure this out.

[SPEAKER_03]: We've done this.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean countless times, especially with our older kids, where we are constantly asking permission of them to say, hey, listen, we have never had a 16 year old before.

[SPEAKER_03]: We've never had these stages.

[SPEAKER_03]: We are actively trying to figure it out.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're going off of best practice or others who might be really wise.

[SPEAKER_03]: It would give us wisdom that we would learn from.

[SPEAKER_03]: But maybe all those ideals or things don't fit our family.

[SPEAKER_03]: So there's times [SPEAKER_03]: where we actually maybe change a rule or undo a rule or add a new one.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's actually a really important piece for our kids to see that we change our mind.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's okay to admit that you're wrong.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's okay to have like a strong opinion about one thing and maybe you're really vocal about that opinion.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then to realize like, you know what, after thinking, I think I was really wrong about that.

[SPEAKER_03]: What it gives to show your kids that you can undo it, and honestly, how many people have been just completely undone by having these audacious, strong opinions in public, or on social media, who are now like, I mean, it is affecting their whole life and livelihood, their future.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so I think there's just a wisdom and a discernment piece that we get to teach our kids like normal is like hey you can change your mind and then also giving them the discernment like hey you're going to think a lot of things 50 to 90% of them don't need to be spoken.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like if I think about how many things go through my head, you know you mentioned the social media thing I think it's just becoming more normalized to speak our thoughts out loud.

[SPEAKER_03]: Why it doesn't mean that you never talk, I think it's actually having a deep discernment of what to say and not to say, knowing that there's going to be a bunch of stuff that comes up that honestly doesn't need to be said.

[SPEAKER_03]: In real time for our family, we have one who just shares every single thought that comes to mind and we are constantly having the conversations.

[SPEAKER_03]: we actually don't need to know that information.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's good to know for you, but that is not helpful to know for me.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's okay to not say everything that you think.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we're in that really not a lot right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think I have to turn your two to your point of when you when to speak up and when to not.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's also like helping, I mean, all of us, we adults need this, especially, but to have the discernment to maybe what you have to say is absolutely true, and maybe needs to be said, but it might be an environment where it's not going to be received.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's very little fruit in that moment of you voicing your opinion or thought about something.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so even teaching them that discernment to be able to read what is happening in the room, what is happening on through their social media platforms.

[SPEAKER_00]: to discern, is this, yes, my view might be true, but is it helpful in this moment?

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that's another thing they have to develop and understand.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I love the phrase, and I feel like you usually hear mature why it's people say it.

[SPEAKER_00]: When they're about to give their opinion on something, they'll often say to the, to the best of my understanding, I think this.

[SPEAKER_00]: And with that idea of being able to change your mind, of like to be able to say, from from the information I have, from what I understand, this is what I think.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, even with interpreting scripture to be able to say, I've studied and I've tried to understand what this passage means in the context that it means and to the best of my understanding.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is what I think God's heart is.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's such a more.

[SPEAKER_00]: humble way to be able to speak truth or thoughts or beliefs because we can't be a 100% sure that every view we have is the right one, you know, or things could change and we may have new information.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think about how much even my thoughts about parenting have changed [SPEAKER_00]: Now raising neurodivergent kids, and a lot has had to shift, and I think a really healthy way that needed to, but had I tried to cling to all my thoughts and ideals prior to any of this, it would not be helpful.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think you're absolutely right.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's just give one more before we talk about some of the guardrails for today.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is my favorite one.

[SPEAKER_03]: And let's both talk about this just for a minute because I think we're both very passionate about this teach curiosity about other people's stories.

[SPEAKER_03]: If there's someone I want to say to anyone listening, if there's someone at work that is really bothering you, they are very bothered at home.

[SPEAKER_03]: If somebody is at school and they are bothering your kids, it is because they're hurting your kids, it's probably because they're hurt at home.

[SPEAKER_03]: And everyone has a story, and everyone has a pain, source, and point, most kids, most people, most adults, don't just step in the world and try to be harmful, hurtful people.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's a pain, there's a fracture, there's a brokenness.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I think when we teach our kids, I mean, this happens, I mean, we probably do this too much, I'd say.

[SPEAKER_03]: But anytime our kids come to us with a situation and attention with another kid and or another situate, like a pain point.

[SPEAKER_03]: We are obviously empathetic, we're listening, we're understanding, but there's always a point somewhere in there and I think you have to use discernment, critical thinking of where to place this, of empathy for the other person no matter how gnarly it is.

[SPEAKER_03]: Just to take a second to be like, do you understand that that person is hurting in a deep way and like, [SPEAKER_03]: that whole phrase which is brilliant simple and I love it and it's a whole true that hurt people do hurt people and they're hurting because they don't have because they're hurting.

[SPEAKER_03]: They're hurting other people because they're hurting inside.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I think when we teach others our kids specifically other perspectives have built empathy deeper understanding but I'd love to hear I know you have a couple thoughts on this for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I'm thinking of it's also another beautiful place to ask them questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you think so and so acts like that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or what do you think their home life is like?

[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_00]: And to your point, I think I especially have done this sometimes too much and it made my kids feel like I'm not being empathetic towards how it's impacted them.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think there's a balance there for sure, but [SPEAKER_00]: I think just as if we can be families who we've talked about this a lot, we've talked about this a ton on the podcast, know our own story and the story of our families that have like our family lines that have come together so important, but that we can just have a framework that everybody has a story, everybody has wounds, everybody has strengths, everybody has weaknesses, [SPEAKER_00]: And just understanding that really because it creates empathy, which enables us to love people better.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a fine balance because it doesn't mean excuse all of their bad behavior.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's not what that means.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it does actually explain some of what is going on and gives another layer of nuance, kids especially.

[SPEAKER_00]: are black and white, there's not a lot of gray.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we have to be able to help them see some of the nuance and some of the gray in just what we know about basic human psychology and how God formed us and how he formed our brains and how our past affects our present.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like just making sure that we are kind of always dropping that in as a framework for our kids.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're not going to fully understand it or embrace it while they're mind still thinking black and white.

[SPEAKER_00]: but if it's a framework that they have as they get older and I feel like I'm already seeing it with our older two where usually not in the moment when they're upset with somebody about something but I'll hear them later talking to a friend or and they'll you know make a little comment that just makes me smile like yeah but you know so and so parents are going through divorce and like I know there's a lot going on [SPEAKER_00]: But I just think, especially in the cultural moment that we're living in, where nothing is really nuanced, it's just our age all the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have to teach them to be able to see great.

[SPEAKER_03]: And when, well, yeah, nuanced is a part of a maturing brain and a brain that is matured.

[SPEAKER_03]: And not fully, but I mean, it's a process, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: You have to see nuance.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I want to say something that's important.

[SPEAKER_03]: What we've seen on accident, or by accident, depending upon how you like to use that phrase.

[SPEAKER_03]: Because I think Phil, your dad, is very, that's pretty neat.

[SPEAKER_03]: We deeply disagree on this one.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's always like, it's by accident, like it's on accident.

[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, wherever you land on that, [SPEAKER_03]: the point is I think that we have landed at a spot where we have wanted because I think this is just a natural part of how we operate to talk this way.

[SPEAKER_03]: What we've seen it due to our kids is actually been something that we did not expect.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think the thing that you start to realize is that when you [SPEAKER_03]: start to have these types of conversations.

[SPEAKER_03]: And by the way, this was not like a parenting award like we planned on this.

[SPEAKER_03]: This was our idea and we did it more epic parents and you should do it too.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's not what we believe.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I have no space for people to do that or try to feed you that idea that they've got to figure it out and you don't.

[SPEAKER_03]: I know that everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses, but I'll just say an unintentional byproduct of this for us that we've seen.

[SPEAKER_03]: is it causes our kids to be able to solve a lot of their own problems and to like even right now or since looking at the whole scope of high school and going, this is like we didn't even bring this up.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, this is kind of weird.

[SPEAKER_03]: Why do we waste so much time at school?

[SPEAKER_03]: Why do we go to school for this many hours a day to sit in these social situations that are were barely educated?

[SPEAKER_03]: I can be doing a lot of different things with my time.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, he's thinking [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, and it is, it's both like surprising to us and also we're realizing like, whoa, we don't disagree with them at all.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, he's actually right about a lot of this stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm back to home.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's going all forward.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, no, but I think there's, there's a lot of different options for him as in his age, but I think it's like, he's like, honestly going, like, I think early college makes sense to me.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't like.

[SPEAKER_03]: Great, you know, like, okay, but I think what we did to do think on his own.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I want to highlight that that was not intentional on our part, but it has been a byproduct that we've been unfolding and discovering and saying, actually, I think this is something that when you do this with your kids, [SPEAKER_03]: they begin to form their own opinions about things that maybe you don't even have as strong of an opinion about.

[SPEAKER_03]: But it's actually good, it's good for them.

[SPEAKER_03]: And they begin to stand out and think differently.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think as you do that, you are creating many leaders, little cultural changers, wherever they go.

[SPEAKER_03]: And they're creating this kingdom culture as they go.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so as a person, you want to have vision for your kids.

[SPEAKER_03]: You want your kids to have vision for their lives.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's something that we've unintentionally seen [SPEAKER_03]: This is something that we have to talk about because we have really enjoyed seeing how our kids are critically thinking about stuff with even out of us.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I think we need to just a couple more things and we'll wrap up, but just because to kind of even out the conversation.

[SPEAKER_03]: Or in a very particular time belt, we are in a time where as we've talked about knowledge is unlimited, you can see it, but I think we need to have some guard reels for today.

[SPEAKER_03]: Jonathan Heights says it so perfectly, he's just says his phrase, and I think it's just a great way to set this up.

[SPEAKER_03]: Since we have overprotected our kids in the real world and underprotected our kids in the digital world.

[SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't agree more the amount of parents and people that we talk with that you know that are listening that have literally taken no time to think of how you protect your kids the digital world, but you have become in fact overprotective on all fronts in the real world.

[SPEAKER_03]: And this is created some really interesting economies and disfunctions as a good way to say it.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so I think it's just naming is power.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like when we name stuff, there's power to that.

[SPEAKER_03]: It gives you words, language, all of us.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I think [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, just be aware where you out with that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Don't judge yourself as much as you need to be aware.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, are you under protecting your kids in the digital world and over protecting them in the physical?

[SPEAKER_03]: That needs to be switched.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I think you need to be more overprotective in the digital less in the physical.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm not going to nuance out with that means because if a parent's like, does that mean you think that they should just write around in the dark and they're bike?

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, no, I'm saying use common sense.

[SPEAKER_03]: But like, there's a level there that we need to have since four, but I think we need to have some guard rails.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about doing an episode here soon on...

[SPEAKER_00]: We've done, I think, a few on technology, we speak on it often, but we're going to do on soon on when you do start to give your kids technology when they're still in your home when they get their first smartphone, when there's school iPads that they're using, and things like that, like, what do you do, yeah?

[SPEAKER_00]: Some really, we'd like to do an episode that's very practical, about the different options you have, the different protections, the limitations they have, [SPEAKER_03]: Um, if you've listened this far in the episode and you want that, will you please email Hello.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: With specifics.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you want to help?

[SPEAKER_03]: Please because that's super helpful when a lot of you guys take us up on that.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that's super helpful to know kind of what would be helpful to you.

[SPEAKER_03]: So if that's interesting email, hello at intentional parents.org.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And with that, I will just caveat.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're not experts on that whatsoever.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we are living in real time or deep deep practice.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we actually do read about this a lot because, because in my opinion, I'm just going to.

[SPEAKER_00]: My critical thinking opinion, it's so, so important to your point of what Jonathan Height says we've overprotected them in the real world and deeply underprotected them in the digital world.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just want to say something.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I just want to give Joey Odom our friend some credit.

[SPEAKER_03]: But he talks about the three M model.

[SPEAKER_03]: I love this, the three M parenting trap.

[SPEAKER_03]: Joey, this is yours.

[SPEAKER_03]: I love you and I love your brain how it works.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm giving you all the credit here.

[SPEAKER_03]: But he talks about the three M parent trap.

[SPEAKER_03]: And he just basically says, you know, as parents, we model, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: So the first thing you do with all of our phone and technology and social media is we model, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: So that's what we do.

[SPEAKER_03]: No matter how much we like that or not.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's very common, and every what parent right now, you are modeling how to use technology by the way you use it, regardless of how you want to use it, it's actually how you use it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then what's interesting is our kids do exactly what they should they mimic what they see models.

[SPEAKER_03]: So our kids will grab the phone at dinner time if we do they'll want iPads they'll want to be on the phone in the same kind of way that we are.

[SPEAKER_03]: So they mimic what's been modeled.

[SPEAKER_03]: But then this interesting thing, and I love how Joey says this, but then the interesting detail is that we end up getting mad at them for mimicking what we've modeled.

[SPEAKER_03]: So you go down to three times you go up.

[SPEAKER_03]: We modeled they mimic we get mad, but then we get mad at what they mimic we've modeled to them.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's that is simple brilliant and helpful to just say, we set this tone in our home.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we're going to talk about guardrails, but these guardrails start with you.

[SPEAKER_03]: they start with you as a parent, they start with you in your home and how your technology habits happen.

[SPEAKER_03]: They will not change for your kids if you're not willing to change them for yourself.

[SPEAKER_03]: So that's just a highlight.

[SPEAKER_00]: No technology habits is something we have to do together as a family.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not we assign the kids, these rules.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it gets exponentially more complex the older they get so on a highlight if you have younger kids You're like this is pretty easy guys.

[SPEAKER_03]: What do you talk now?

[SPEAKER_03]: The nuances get way more intense and I want to highlight one detail We had a very staunch very like we talked about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I've I've undone this and save it for the episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna do [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, but I've set people up so just briefly, just briefly, I won't go into deep detail.

[SPEAKER_03]: We'll save all the goodies for the actual episode we do, but in part, we were not going to have iPhones, our kids have iPhones to the rate team and we ended up changing our mind.

[SPEAKER_03]: We let Duke as as a driving 16 year old, actually get an iPhone.

[SPEAKER_03]: Now, it's locked down.

[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't have the internet.

[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't have social media.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's very like we have made it as dumb and intelligent as it can be.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's dumb, I fun.

[SPEAKER_03]: But it still has all the things he needs as maps, life 360, all these different things that are helpful for him to have some music, pod guests, different things like that.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just saying that even us in real time have realized like we can have all these ideals and I think a lot of different people have ideals and that's okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: But we have to get into the nitty gritty of like those ideals sometimes.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think you morally move away from your ideals, but I do think it sometimes practically you have to move away from them because it doesn't always work.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, this one, we realized that our idea was not actually setting him up for success.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what actually changed our mind was thinking, wait a second.

[SPEAKER_00]: If we don't introduce this until 18, he's not going to be really- Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: No time.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, depending on what he does, spending on how long he lives at home, if he goes away to school, which we don't know those things yet.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have no time to actually help influence and put guardrails like on all of it while he's still in our home.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we changed it not just because it was like, oh well, I guess that's what everyone else is doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what you're supposed to do by this age, but because we realized what our plan was was actually not going to be for his flourishing, which we'll get deeper into that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, so I think let's just talk about the garbage really quick because we've been on this for a while.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I want to talk about the, I did some study on this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: So try to understand.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is good.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is fascinating.

[SPEAKER_00]: I spent way too many hours reading medical journals and, uh, [SPEAKER_00]: setting it, but I'll try to synthesize it or just the things that are important.

[SPEAKER_00]: But there's been some really fascinating neuroimaging studies using EEG and MRI that really highlight what we all know of like scrolling on our phones is not this harmless pastime, especially for younger developing brains.

[SPEAKER_00]: Most of these studies were done on college students.

[SPEAKER_00]: So think through that lens and then think of how young kids are getting access to all of this.

[SPEAKER_00]: but one of them found that right after using social media or especially there was a lot of links between watching like short clips of things, but the parts of the brain that are responsible for self-control and for working memory, those two things you need for thinking critically, those parts of the brain significantly quiet down and kind of go offline.

[SPEAKER_00]: Which means it's harder to focus, it's harder to hold on to information, and it's way harder to filter distractions.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it makes it near impossible for them to be able to actually think critically about the thing that they're seeing, about the thing that entered the new speed, about the thing that everybody at school is talking about.

[SPEAKER_00]: It literally makes it near impossible for their brain to actually think critically about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then when they're when we're exposed to these really like polarized or emotional content, our brain's pattern shift even more, making us like more reactive and less objective.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so if you think about like do not be conformed to the pattern of this world, what's the pattern of this world?

[SPEAKER_00]: The pattern of this world is these sweet developing brains, [SPEAKER_00]: walking around constantly with their thought patterns interrupted by these things they're watching, by these.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we can get, I have, like, strong feelings about how, how we as a culture talk about teenagers and how disrespectfully we speak about them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, because part of it is part of we've created a little bit created the monster.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no, not a little bit.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, a lot of trying to be no, I'm so we get mad.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, I say we give a very frustrated teens at these days.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I would say if you're around teens that have unlimited access to be influenced by [SPEAKER_03]: social media, the internet, and have very little help with knowing how to be a regulated calm, respectful human.

[SPEAKER_03]: That is a recipe given their age stage, emotional state, mental stability.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a hard human to be around.

[SPEAKER_03]: That is like objectively agree with you.

[SPEAKER_03]: You can play a hard human to be around.

[SPEAKER_03]: And the person that is responsible for that if you are their parent is you to undo that to help that.

[SPEAKER_03]: And the thing is that you actually can, [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, we should get off our soapbox there and save that for the next episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to do, but it has to be mentioned because it is, it has such an influence on the inability to think critically through things.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's, it's a huge driver to why we have to be so intentional about teaching that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, let's just finish.

[SPEAKER_03]: So finishing up here, uh, guard rules for delays.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I think a couple of things that we need to talk through is just practically delaying social media, delaying YouTube, unlimited internet access for as long as possible.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is all over the place.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we don't need to like go into insane detail, but that's a pretty obvious one.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then when tragedy, current events and different things come up in an age-appropriate way, talk about them.

[SPEAKER_03]: talk about, like do you understand what's happening in the world?

[SPEAKER_03]: And even so I don't obviously there's too much that happens even in a given day that we can even know.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it's not going to be helpful for you to constantly bring up everything that could be going on.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I think for those really key ones, I think we need to help our kids process and understand [SPEAKER_03]: And I think things like, you know, we already mentioned it is a very time-sensitive issue, but what would have with Charlie Kirk has so many different layers that at the right moment, it'd be helpful to talk to your kids about, because it doesn't just have to do with a human and taking life, it has to do with so many multiple [SPEAKER_03]: angles and we need to help our kids understand like there's so many layers to what this means for you and your people are responding in all sorts of different ways.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so just remember as we wrap up here, I just want to highlight critical thinking develops over time as we already mentioned not overnight.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is the long game.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is an ongoing micro moment day by day process.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then don't be fearful about your kids not being able to be able to think critically, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's the biggest piece is that we pray into who we want them to be.

[SPEAKER_03]: And pray that God would give them sharp minds and discernment.

[SPEAKER_03]: And remember, the discernment is a gift of the spirit.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like that's a biblical description of a gift.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's important to realize like, pray for the gift of discernment in your life and in your children.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that is a gift, discernment is a huge gift to those who have it.

[SPEAKER_03]: And when you've met somebody that has the gift of discernment for real, not just like, oh, sometimes we self-claim or own gifts, but those who really do have those gifts, they're powerful.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's like so cuts to the core, it goes right to the soul, it's a deep thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just I know we're wrapping up, but you were mentioning to not fear, but to pray.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I put that in our notes because that was me, like a year ago, or maybe when our son first started going to public high school.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was seeing some of just kind of getting caught up in, [SPEAKER_00]: what is culturally normal, nothing major, but just different ways of viewing the world, viewing relationships, and I was starting to fear.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I've said this on the podcast before a prayer is not like my great strength, area of strength, I would say it is for you.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I read, so I put a little date next to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this was in January.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I like to sometimes when you feel like the spirit's speaking about a specific thing, I'll put a little note and a date.

[SPEAKER_00]: Evan is first Peter, 114 and says, as obedient children do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance, but just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do, for it is written be holy because I am holy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I just started praying that God would do that in our son, that he would over time be able to think critically to not conform to the pattern of this world and that he would be a man of holiness.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I just started praying and I like get emotional as I'm thinking about the conversations we are having with him now opposed to a year ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like we're watching answered prayer that he would be a man of discernment, but he would be able to think critically that he would think for himself.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it was through exposure really and having to have a chance to figure out what he thinks about certain things.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there was risk involved and fear involved on us as parents.

[SPEAKER_00]: But to see the prayers that God has been answering and the growth of maturing we're seeing happen has fueled my faith to just simply pray for my kids more.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like think about all the areas that we are.

[SPEAKER_00]: Processing a lot of fear and anxiety and we get busy and it doesn't move us to actually pray and I know there's a lot of parents right now that feel just like in a cycle of anxiety for their kids and their first instinct is to want to either protect or to kind of bury their head in the sand.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if both of those instincts if we could move past that and move to prayer, I think we'd see some really big shifts in our own.

[SPEAKER_00]: peace and in our actual reality with our kids.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's the the biggest takeaway that we can attempt all of these things, including trying to teach our kids how to think critically.

[SPEAKER_03]: But like we said at the beginning, unless it's with the power of the Holy Spirit, a lot of this work falls so flat.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so pray, start all of this with prayer.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I would even just pray for the gift of discernment.

[SPEAKER_03]: I can't remember, [SPEAKER_03]: I don't actually know I should know this, but in the, in sewing ahead and seed, I think there was a day on discernment.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think there was an actual, I think, I should know this, but I think there's a day on discernment.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I mean, even that, like, I know for me, praying for discernment just as a, as a human as a, like, pray for discernment for yourself, pray for discernment for your kids.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that as we begin this process of teaching our kids how to think critically, they are more confident.

[SPEAKER_03]: They are more, and not in an arrogant way, but more confident in how to think and move through the world.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I think you said it best.

[SPEAKER_03]: Start with Paris.

[SPEAKER_03]: So wherever you're at today, start with Paris.