The first ever Rugby World Cup.

Let me share some, insights and memories.

You have from that tournament in 1987?

No.

No.

From yoyo American viewers.

You know, you got your World Series, a place for your world.

This your world that well this year this was a World Cup and rugby in and so you know it was it was great project so much support to from you know friends and all that.

But there's also a lot of pressure on, you know the pressure was on to win it because it was the first and it was the All Blacks.

I've always, you know, that was one of the mentors that are number one, sort of thing.

And so there's a lot of pressure to do that side of things as well.

And any only in.

Yeah, we got it done.

So we enjoyed it.

And here was a great experience.

Hi, I'm Karen Crowley.

And you're listening to the rugby, Hive.

I did you want me to say to tell you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hi, I'm Nicole Crowley.

And you're listening to the rugby.

Hive, do a Sculptor Rugby.

Hi, he's so dangerous.

Hello, and welcome to the reg beehive.

I'm down in Stanford and despite my South African accent.

I was fortunate enough to play rugby for the United States on the 7th World Series.

And I'm Robin Mac do a former Canadian sevens International back in my playing days.

I went head-to-head against down in the USA.

For several years often has coached International sevens for various countries, including Canada and Mexico.

He's massively passionate about growing the game, across the Americas through his MacDill review programs at all levels, unkempt accommodated, for World rugby, most recently forecasting, the Rugby World Cup in Japan as well as the amazing sevens World Series, more than a decade later.

We are teaming up to bring you insights from legendary players and coaches from around the world.

All legends have the story.

The Right Bhai podcast is here to share it.

Welcome to the hive.

Hello and welcome back to season 3 of the rugby.

Hi b.

A Happy New Year to all you brilliant listeners from around the world.

Hope it's been a restful festive season and you're ready to unlock a magical 2023.

It's of course, the year of the Rugby World Cup in France, and what a spectacle that shall be born.

The Hive we feature two legends so far and season 3, it's episode 31 with South African, 7s, Captain shakes voice, huapi episode 32, The Olympian and former US a7's leader Kelly Griffin, and today.

Episode of blast from the past.

That's right, we recorded this one back all the way whenever barnstorming in 2020, it's an agent, go but still holds up over two years later, Nicole, Crowley and a father Kieran.

But before we get into the episode, happy New Year, Robin welcome to 2023.

My friend, Happy New Year, fired up for this year.

You're ready to rumble.

My friend, you got your awesome kit on your merch.

Let's talk a bit about 20 22.

What was the the finish line for you?

I was lovely.

Got some down time over the holidays.

My wife met me in Vancouver when I flew in and we drove straight across the Canadian, prairies up over the Rockies.

So, I went from some +30 whether to minus-50 weather for two day trip, but had an awesome time with our family.

The Prairies and got to do some outdoor hockey and just just shut down my brain for a few weeks.

How about your side?

Yeah, I remember messaging.

You going through those terrible conditions.

We actually had done the reverse we'd left the New England.

And whether behind us with sold about place.

And very, and I moved back to Southern California, it's kind of always the plan.

During the pandemic to get out of SoCal, be close to her family and things like that, but a doozy couple of months shipping across everything and getting the cars here, but well time we've got to miss the the crazy conditions.

There we lost it.

Two Winters.

It was brilliant, being posed to Boston and working with a free Jack's.

But really enjoying being back in the sunny weather and playing Beach right here in Santa.

Monica enjoying the lifestyle here in Los Angeles, going to say, did Envy while you're out there.

Did you get a block heater installed in your guys's Jeeps, you know what those are?

Do you know what?

Never know.

So I so we, I had something in my Jeep, way you can turn it on and you can actually stop the car and stop the heating process.

I just never figured out how to use it.

And also, I didn't necessary want to run the car for 10 minutes in this condition.

So he was always always upset with me.

So you haven't started the car, it's not, it's freezing, so no, I didn't really learn how to do it properly.

What's up Lucky her?

Well, the Canadians for starters, sometimes, like, in the middle account of, they won't even turn their cars.

Off because it's too cool.

They're afraid they're going to start but a block heater.

It's actually like a heating.

It actually keeps your battery warm and the core your motor warm so you plug it in.

So I bought I bought it my truck on the west coast here and we don't plug vehicles in because it's, you know, it doesn't get too cold.

Obviously, we're never in the - I'm so when I got it installed, right before we went to the Prairies, they were looking at me sideways.

Like you know, you don't need this here.

It's got to be minimum -17 to plug-in.

I'm like well where I'm I mean, I'm definitely going to need it and day one on the trip, you know, we were at like literally - 49 at night time and if you've never been and - I would say 25 and Below literally running back and forth at the hotel, with our poppy, like trying to get all our stuff in the room.

The only thing exposed was my hands and my hands were burning because it was so cold.

Now, I'm so sorry, but I'm not South African as far as the cold goes, but I am a West coaster and man, Sure makes me happy that we're back on the west coast safe and sound.

So that's what a block heater is fun fact what we've know we thought we would call them in New England side and it doesn't get any way close to that.

So you ride north of the Border, you guys are different breed.

My friend during did not soft at all.

All right.

I wanted to thank a couple of rugby hide partners that have joined us on this, excellent Journey over the last few years.

In particular heading into this New Year, those include firstly World rugby shop makers of our apparel line and Mercury currently wearing just to it's right behind on world rugby, shop.com.

We also have a rugby High branded balls.

Other great Merchants well at Gilbert rugby canada.com and Eurosport work at energy.

Like you've never seen you get 40% off a truck behind the dot, Enduro sport official.com and then if you need a snack, blue bolt on partners are the answer Bruce both, know.com available in the USA and Canada built on.com delivers in Canada, north of the Border special.

Thanks also to the rugby Network, showcasing our episodes on their brilliant platform.

If you want to join season 3 as a supporter, as a sponsor at The partner just message us on our social at right beehive.

Also want to give a quick shout-out, a personal friend of mine.

Jeremy Castro worked with him at Occidental College, who was a former coach of the team.

He helped me whenever we toured printing shirt, other merge, to raise money.

When we traveled.

He also has worked in broadcasting for many years.

We've done a lot of international together across national championships and many games that are fairly Park while he's merchandise brand, brand marinade, going through difficult times.

Currently, they're trying to get out of, you know, the difficulties that set them out during the pandemic, but if you can support them, they make some Amazing stuff here to Brand manager, net.com and support Jeremy Castro.

The Sleek sensation.

All right, Rob's want to switch gears.

Let's check in.

Right, the items?

What you get up to to close out the year since we last spoke.

Well I got to go to New Zealand.

We took the British Columbia, the regional Western Canadian.

You a teen boy.

So we selected 12 guys from 160 on our last intro for Griff.

I was on my way to the final final camp for that trial back in 2017, we started Doubt started out a group of young man and I think three cortisone, you've called on the World Series, like Laughlin, Kratz, Thomas just, you would the mullet man, himself, David Richards, Brock Webster, the list goes on and that was six years ago now, and then obviously we had a pandemic.

So this is kind of our first crop for young Canadians that will be make their way into the premier 7s M LR and World Series.

We had we had a decent pool dalen, we played the Samoan Junior national team first, then the Fijian Junior national team and That culminated with the junior all black.

So I was a little bit of baptism by fire for our Canadian boys.

Most of which have only been playing rugby for a year to on the backside, the pandemic, but we definitely had the athleticism.

It was great to get down there.

Obviously, summer in New Zealand.

I got to see Katie play with Carlos Spencer.

They had a bit of footy going on at halftime show casing for the kids.

So, there's a lot of star power, their New Zealand, and just a great experience to see these kids get A taste of what's out there for World rugby and then just back to the academy here.

Thrilled to be kicking off 2023 with our kids, they had a nice break, you know, like any centralized program.

It's always good to have a break but you know, we're about to get into things on Tuesday here and obviously like I run a fairly tight ship and I just said, you know what, you guys just catch up for 10 minutes before we get into the weight room and get moving.

Just because they were, they were just so excited to Are you share their stories and be teenagers?

So that's been really rewarding and definitely excited for what's to come.

How about you?

Yeah, you didn't bring with them, see what they can tell me.

It's so great to see the social media coming out and been following it.

Obviously from abroad, but now I want to go back to one thing you mentioned, Carlos, fence in Haiti, combining how many no-look passes, how many gue steps will give us a commentary.

I mean like, I don't get too Starstruck anymore, but when I saw Carlos Spencer, I mean he could probably see, he's probably still got four five caps and I'm like Quade Cooper.

But yeah, it was, it was brilliant to watch.

It's just like, you know, casually walking around, you know, New Zealand.

And obviously, the grounds are the world schools games and just, you know, be like, you know, obviously, for those hockey fans, it's like Wayne Gretzky.

Mario Lemieux, like just like the best players of all time.

Just just chilling.

Just pretty special.

And then I gotta meet up with one of my original mentors.

Dave, Dave maze who's an English gentleman and big hype supporter, but he lived in the Caribbean and coached a bunch there after he spent I'm in Canada and so I hadn't seen him in like, over a decade, but I talked to him weeklies gone from being like one of my, you know, my plane mentors when he was a coach and now he's been one of my coaching Mentor.

So he was there coaching and, you know, I got to reconnect with him, which was magic.

And then, yeah, I'm just, obviously everything is Zealand has to offer and, you know, rugby mad people.

And then, of course, I had a couple of my cat Ami, boys.

One of our graduates Jackson Jones at feature with the senior Bears.

He was car.

Irving jungian, anderton Teasdale and then L Douglas, one of my Prairie Academy kids, this move of the coast and they got a future.

So again having that opportunity to find the talent, develop the talent and then get to see them perform.

And find Joy was, was definitely a sweet spot for me.

Oh, that's so great.

Yeah, well so close out the year was We really good to call some of those remote games?

The regular of super cup, but to the semi finals between Tel, Aviv heat and looser tarnish a burning contest.

The men from Israel if I wanted to the Final, they just fell short to the Georgian Powerhouse as the black line.

But it's really cool to be able to call from from the bedroom, slash kitchen, the home office, and then we were meant to connect obviously at the ransoms in Mexico City.

Both our plans got got derailed for their one siblings World Series.

I definitely had former when they played in Dubai and Cape Town as meant to do those events.

But moving to California, it took up that time during that period but then the retail sevens, I've got a chance to go back to Austin, Texas.

Do my third freetail events?

Poorly organized by Ryan Walker and Justin hail.

We had World rugby, referee sensation who the gas has featured cat Roche.

Deliver officials normal Salinas was are Sleek sensation photographer and the action on the field.

Certainly delivered.

Plenty of upsets, the women's division at the death old blue took our Chicago, North Shore, and the men's competition nav sevens continue.

Their unbelievable form, high-stepping their way through against Faith.

Rugby $8000 prize money up for grabs.

Both.

Champagne going down like a homesick mole.

It was really a great way to finish off the year.

Then Rob's 2023 so much to be excited for a while.

Just going back to the freetail sevens, I got a tune in and hear you.

Yell Shadow to the nav guys.

Those guys like I don't know what they're feeding those guys, but that we got, they got a winning combo that coaching that coach those coaches in there a couple experts that, like, those guys are just trophies on trophies.

Good old, CJ Jones, like getting it done again and a couple Canadians down there.

And then I was doing some Scouting For The, the premier sevens and loonies, and there was a number of loonies featured in there.

Amanda Hall and sativa PQ and then some other rock stars like Lindsey Mahoney from from Arizona that played for the headliner.

So, there's a pile of talents it in that tournament.

And it's definitely being back in Canada, where I was surrounded by snow.

Looking at that sunshine.

I'm going to have to get down to freetail at some point.

Yeah, we definitely need to get you there.

I mean, you all have takes in any way with your cowboy boots and and Rodeo kind of skills.

So we need to do that for sure.

And then Rob's tell me what you excited for in 2023.

What's what's coming up, everything?

Like this is the year, like, oh man, you know, all the projects have been coming together but just more, you know, hopefully, some more jars and coffees on the road with you and all my American colleagues taking the loonies to another level.

That's knowing number one Focus right now.

Outside of my cat Ami is building that program lineup I got three ID camps across across Canada this year looking for talent for both men and women and I don't know if another tattoos in the works outside of My staff that that's going to be working with me.

But definitely looking to go strong there this year.

And we're going to, we're going to have like a preseason camp up here in the north been talking to a live kalter, Nana 5sc try and get them up here and build it right, but it's exciting.

This year down, we're going to add their growing.

Premier sevens is growing from for franchises to eight, men and women.

So they're going to have an Eastern Conference.

The Western Conference, your favorite loonies, obviously being the Western Conference There will be, will be playing in two stops in the west, of course, and in the to Eastern stops and then the top two from each.

So, the loonies and somebody else will be headed to Washington for the championship round to finish out the year.

So that's that's kind of my number one, Focus From the professional coaching aspect.

And then outside of that, you know, I'm wearing I got my BC rugby, Junior and senior men's hat.

I'm now in charge of Vancouver Island rugby, which is obviously our region here and just seeing where you and I can take the hive this year as well.

So just Lots of exciting projects that just keep on growing and looking forward to getting on the trail.

And then another project that you're aware of and and it hasn't been launched, but it's going to be launched in Spring is my Precision kicking ball that I've developed with Gilbert Global.

So I'm heading to the UK in March to build the launch for that.

And I think it's already in over a dozen countries around the world, kind of the soft launch in and it's going to be in hopefully every rugby Nation.

In 12 months time.

So that's been another one of my covid projects that's been simmering in the shadows but now it's coming to life.

Well, that's so great.

I know you can kick for anything but we do know a pleco been Goulding's.

That could strike it swiftly.

Hopefully he's included in that marketing media plan while speaking to go leads his son, Rocco, debuted for Australia.

So, I got to, I got to finally meet Rocco.

I might have met him when in Seattle days, early on.

But Rocco's now playing, You 18, wallabies.

He's actually I think it Fiji right now playing in one of the tournaments there and so he's getting spend some time with his dad and and is his younger brother and sister which is great.

But I sent a picture to Ben and Ben obviously being in England star working with VGA goes, it's crazy.

Seeing my son.

And in Australia, Jersey, buddy, he looked good and he like, I was so excited to see Rocco play, and I only got to watch him play one game.

Just just the way it worked out with our schedule with our games.

But he was carving like everything he set up to try.

He scored the first try.

Set up two tries and was just all over the field.

It was just like a complete clone.

And he had the dirtiest mustache, so it was class.

I'm a fan.

That's brilliant enough to field.

What goals, you know.

That's so great.

Carry on the family name.

That's brilliant.

Powell, I love everything.

You got planned for the new year.

New goals, new opportunities for us both.

I'm excited.

There's a couple of new events coming up as well, which is really cool.

One of them is the Super Rugby Americas.

It's going to feature a seventeen's, one in North America.

The American Raptors there was going to be a Canadian arctic front.

The civic pride.

They're not going to join yet, so hopefully it's the following year.

But two teams from Argentina.

Won from Brazil one from Chile Paraguay and Uruguay.

Completion started.

Every 18 doing five of the six home games for the Raptors at Infinity Park.

So I'll be fascinated to see how you know that American team does.

In the competition.

They form a had crossed over players, that will then bring in some more rugby experience.

We'll have to see how that goes and then major gripe be season six.

Around the corner.

For me, personally, I only be involved in a handful of games unfortunate, because the remote studios are based in Indianapolis and the East Coast a bit too far, and then the other student, Austin, they've got a few people that live close by, it will be interesting to see how those broadcasts go that side World 7-series Brilliance will be in.

L.a.

your neck of the woods Vancouver, will hopefully meet up there and then Hong Kong and Singapore, legs, and the thrilling Yo, which the top four sides and the men, and a woman will qualify for the Paris Olympics in 2024.

And then you mentioned the premier rugby sevens a record number of Vents how might the final some copies and some jobs with you?

And as you said about the tattoo, I mean I think you got to keep this tradition alive.

Maybe it's something different.

You get the city tattooed where you win, I don't know.

We'll have to come up with something fun.

We'll have to get your mom involved as well.

It's an, it's an initiation for, for all our, for the other.

The other staff.

Put it that way.

It's, yes contract.

That's true.

That's true.

Well, when the exact unit, let's see when the Rugby World Cup, you know, how they put the you're on or that sort of thing.

So anyway, we'll talk about that later.

And then, as I said, one of my big goals is rugby world.

Woke up France, 2023, a pain to be there hopefully with the world rugby, if not then celebrating the tournament with the missus and several friends.

It's going to obviously be a brilliant country of brilliant tournaments.

Just just call wait for that, it's EGS.

It is always such a big Pinnacle event happening every single year, and that's the great thing about the sport.

All right, pal.

Let's the preview episode 33 Nicole and Carolyn Crowley as mentioned earlier.

In the intro of this, of course the content is not as current as it could be was filmed during the pandemic recorded, their turn will then was promoted after episode probably Because it was on The Hive promoted to coach Italy in May of twenty Twenty-One caused couple of major upsets.

One of them was probably the biggest one of the biggest upsets in wardrobe, you're feeding Australia 2827, and the Autumn tour and an early in the

Six Nations being Wales, 22:21 give called coach with Benetton rugby.

They won the pro 14 rainbow cup.

They were the champions, so, so many great things there.

I had ever met Karen before, but I've spoken to him when he was coaching, right, be Canada.

And then, a coal is while comes in as a stick sensation who, you know, them both really well.

My first impression with Kieran like, yeah, I was playing in the sevens team when he took over the 15s, and then after I finished playing, I was obviously right into the coaching and finding the talent like a young pack K and stuff when he was 18, 19.

And so I went to the sevens Camp down the road here and I was just kind of one of the observing guest coaches and you know, here knew I was in 7th mad kind of guy and that was kind of my wheelhouse him obviously being an album.

The All Blacks alumni former player and and and world-class coach, but it was just such an interesting man and very, very intelligent and very soft-spoken.

And anyway, the coach at the time, I guarantee John was speaking to all these different coaches that were there.

And then we're headed to to walk over and watch the training session and Karen said to me he goes, do you want to do, you want to walk with me to the field and we'll take the long way?

I said sounds good and he asked me questions from the clubhouse all the way to the Field, which was like a 5-10 minute walk.

And I was just like I've been coaching for 20 years but I was obviously new to you, no more higher performance coaches and you got one of the classiest guys out there, but here he is asking me questions and I'm like, that really was an eye-opener for me as a coach.

And when you're young coach, you figure, you know, a lot.

And here's a guy that been around and he was asking me questions.

And then halfway through the day, they're into drills and he couldn't unlock the team in some way.

And he just like, hey do you want to take over and and let me look.

I don't know if he probably just wanted to break.

Take and put my tires, but I was just like this, just such a selfless man and open-minded.

And, and, and always always question players and coaches and then he left a really good Mark and left the national team in a very good place, a lot stronger place, and obviously we're at right now and he's going on and and found success in another country over pandemic.

And, and obviously, as you said one, the pro 14 rainbow Captain was coach the year that year and now is sharing his expertise.

Diddly whose arising, you know, continue Rising nation.

And you know what I love about that as well as an underdog.

It's, you know, it's impossible to it's possible Cole.

I've watched her developed as a high school player, provincial player, and into a junior national team player and then into a university star.

And and then into a successful World Series, team Canada, manager, and now is actually living in Toledo Northwest Territories.

So if you thought it's cold, And I see where I live or where I used to live down, she is like in the northern she'll and her partner is a Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

I believe he's from from Britain.

She's obviously from New Zealand originally and she's using her expertise organization management skills up there for recreational Community program, and very successful on, and off the field.

So, what I really love about this episode, Like we paired a number of coaches and X teammates and family.

Members is just as this father-daughter combination and you know she wants to talk about is our dad and all our her dad wants to do is talk about her daughter.

And obviously kieran's younger daughter is very successful in hockey and she's got a brother to so just a Wonderful class New Zealand family.

That is is on the road here.

Now is obviously in Italy his daughters in the Northern Hemisphere and I'm not sure.

Sure where this the the younger daughter was in the, it was in the u.s.a.

She had went to a D1, had a field hockey.

Scholarship down there was carving their so very successful family, all around.

And yeah, I love this episode so great to hear and I love the connection and how you got to know them as well.

Make sure listen as you connect with our socials at to rugby Hive on Twitter, Facebook and YouTube at my Rugby, have an Instagram and of course, our website, or our beehive.com.

Please continue to be safe up, then we appreciate all the support.

It's time now for 3 episode 33.

Thanks so much for joining us.

It's a family affair.

Today with two Sleek Sensations, they start with you.

Karen, how you holding up in Italy and what's life like there and have enjoyed the culture here we are not going on man.

You know it's like everyone you know the covid situation is there's a little bit challenging for everyone.

We were on a think we had about ten week, lockdown, period, something like that.

So which means, you know, you have to stay and stay in the house.

So you're only allowed out to the supermarket.

That and GI here in Italy.

We got about the same amount of people or I don't know what Canada has got, but there's about 65 million people in Italy and it's the size of New Zealand.

So, you know, there's a lot of people in small areas living room Apartments.

So they, it was a challenging time for a lot of people, you know, from a rugby perspective.

You know, we had we got about 50 yard guys on our books and I think there's only about a half a dozen of them that could actually do it to you.

It comes with, I can run and during that period.

So it was a it was a challenging time, like everyone better.

It's you know, we're getting through it now and come out the other side and and yeah, but, you know, life in general and Italy, it's a great country, it's a great culture, it's a great great food, wine, etc, etc, you know so it's it's a real, real pleasure Bolivia.

Yeah, definitely.

One of the tourist favorites and Nicole urine is slightly different spot too.

A bit more of a Canadian landscape.

There in Yellowknife.

Right, tell us about that.

I'm just up here temporarily, I'm usually based out of Victoria, but I came up here for the work from home during covid.

And it's interesting, like the winters, get to negative 45 and then it's now like 19 degrees and Nelly in the middle of summer.

So 24-hour sunlight as well.

Which is super interesting.

It's just a different way of life.

I never thought like when I was growing up that I would come to Northern Canada and Like go ice fishing and things like that, so it's nice.

It's a long way from New Zealand, that's for sure.

Karen will start with you just dived into.

You're younger playing days.

Can you tell us how you got into rugby and what other sports you play growing up?

Yeah, I'm in New Zealand, young Jean, Rugby's, the national sport.

So, you know, your sort of, I went to us from a little car country town called kaupanger.

You know, we're all Dairy Farmers and that area the town was a little service town.

You only had a a few hundred people with a hotel and a, you know, a couple of us service stores for the farming area and that and I went to the local Primary School only 100 people won't 100 kids went to it and now you're sort of start off here, you know, when you're five or six years old just playing in the playground and and so that's where I first started because I was just rugby, everyone played rugby or netball the, you know, the most played netball.

So so started and then, you know, Just progressed from there at 5 and 6 years old to the local Club.

They always like thing in New Zealand as it is in Canada.

Now you know saturday-morning football and I used to run around and be a feat in the early days that five and six years old and then you know I had had five brothers and one sister and you know he's supplying the front lawn and all that sort of just grew from there.

So you know initially started with that, you know, but in New Zealand I think one of the big things in for, you know, Sport or for rugby.

If you're any good at anything is that you try so many different sports and so the New Zealand thing was sort of rugby in the winter and Cricket in the summer for a male.

And so you know, I played a bit of cricket as well and like it and they both boss or a stuff, but yeah, but I sort of got to a stage because I was playing in the era before professionalism so you used to work on the farm and then go to play rugby or whatever it was.

And so it sort of got A statue had to choose between the rugby and the crooked and it just happened.

That the rugby was sort of was on when I did a side.

So, you know, that was a went that way seem to work out for you.

I'd be interested in.

I'd be interested to see how many All Blacks came from a farm over the years and still do.

Oh yeah, those are.

There's a lot of nap time.

I mean, you know, we went on Wake programs or anything like that there wasn't, you know?

Like I said I wasn't professional rugby.

You know, you used to get the rugby.

He's changed so much.

Now, you used to get the hard for words that, you know, used to be working the freezing works, or I used to work on the farm.

Now there just has to be a lot of provincial teams like that but you know as society's changed and you know the workforce has changed and that and then rugby went professional and so yeah, it's changed massively but you know, certainly come from a farm, certainly grounded, you and values and made you appreciate what you had except trousseau, you know, completely different too.

Army system and everything like that now and they call what's worse?

Did you get involved in growing up in New Zealand before you transition to Canada?

I guess like Dad was a head coach of rugby at the time, but he never pressured us into play in rugby and and only my brother played for a few years, but I was playing a lot of netball and a lot of basketball at the time and I got into Cricket a little bit.

I wasn't very good at it, but I think we were like growing up.

We were told To try as many sports as we could, and we were always doing something we weren't allowed to sit inside and watch TV, real add, maybe half an hour at night after after school, watching cartoons, or whatever it was, but we were always at some kind of sport training.

So very mediocre at a lot of different things, that's good parenting, right to make sure you active outside and making friends and keeping busy with, you know, your brothers and sisters.

Karen, let's switch back to your rugby playing days.

Most people dream of playing international sport for their country.

You obvious obviously excelled at Cricket by American listeners.

As like baseball, just very confusing but to represent the All Blacks to, where the famous New Zealand Jersey.

What was your part where like to eventually getting your your first International cap?

Yeah, I probably came from my, you know, a different sort of Pathway to a lot of people because the other club I played for what scar pondering.

And we were only a bunch of farmers.

Really who, you know, every little town in New Zealand had a, had a rugby club and that was the sort of Meeting point and social point.

And so, you know, we used to, you know, you never, you have any, you're going to get to training because, you know, there might be things on the farm that keep guys away and that.

And so now we weren't a great team.

We were, you know, there was a number of Divisions in the taranaki area.

We were always in the second division, but I was lucky enough to, you know, probably have a get selected for the provincial team early on because of a couple of performance of those bows or someone must have seen me play, but I was lucky enough for that and then, you know, from there You know, like enough to have a couple of good performances for the provincial team, which then got me into the into the New Zealand, under-20s.

So I was in there for three years and then sort of progressed into the All Blacks side and it was it was a progression that you know in those days are more Auckland were very, very strong and you know Canterbury and so people getting them from, you know, particularly a back probably from the from outside.

Those places was a little bit of Surprised I suppose in some respects, but, you know, I was lucky enough to get in there and then have a couple of reasonable sort of games and sort of, you know, ended up playing for about 800 years for them.

So I think it was about 83 to 91 or something like that.

So so yeah, great great experience.

And, you know, it's like I say, you know, it's like it's the national sport of New Zealand.

So, you know, there's a lot of people got a lot of opinions.

Yeah, I would imagine her but at a remarkable career, Let's talk about that iconic team that you are part of the first ever Rugby World Cup.

You, can you share some insights and memories you have from that tournament in 1987?

Yeah, I mean, it was the first World Cup so you know, was quite, as they were testing the water a little bit, you know, it's completely different now as far as you know, because it's growing.

So so massively from a commercial standpoint.

But yeah, the fact that it was in New Zealand, you know, in your home country was, you know, there's a messenger.

Buzz around it.

But I remember, you know, it was just the, the excitement of being there, you know, and it was called A World Cup, you know.

I know you from, you know, you American viewers, you know, you've got your world series of baseball, your world, this your world that this year, this was a World Cup and rugby and and so you know it was it was great because yet so much support to from you know your friends and all that.

But there's also a lot of pressure on you know the pressure was on to win it because it was The first and it was the All Blacks were always, you know, that was one of the inventors of their own number one, sort of thing.

And so there's a lot of pressure to do that side of things as well.

And any only in.

Yeah, we got it done so we enjoyed it and yeah it was a great experience.

That's epic.

Nicole can you tell us about your rugby playing days in a school?

It's shining and League school and going on to represent BC as well.

Yeah, so I didn't get involved in there be until I think grade 11 and I actually got involved.

This one girl was like pestering me for years to stop playing so I finally did and and I actually really enjoyed it.

So I started then and that same year I made BC in the summer which I wasn't planning to and then I kept playing for them for about four years.

I think.

And then their opportunity came to go to university of Victoria.

I play rugby there which was awesome Planet universities, like completely different than high school and provincial levels and, you know, your training every single day.

We sometimes Wednesday would have conditioning in the morning training in the evening.

So it was more like a, I guess it's more structured environment than I was used to.

And so I end up lying there for three years, on both their, seventh and 15 Steam for some of your highlights from your bike stays.

Oh, um, I guess one of my highlights was obviously In Canada West.

So we ended up beating University of Alberta and the semi-finals and we were coming in fourth.

So we got to the finals and that took us to Nationals at Queens so that was definitely a highlight.

But also on that time when I was at you back I was playing with BC and the summer and we got to win a National Championship.

So I got to Captain the team with that and so that was definitely a highlight being able to do that with some of my best friends and people I was playing with University with it as well.

What was your dad's support?

Like, I know he's a humble quiet calculated, man, but was it like, once you started playing his sport?

Yeah, he was, he was always there on the sidelines when he wasn't traveling with my mom, he always had tips for me after the game, so, you know, always things I could be improving on, but he did get involved.

He let like, he let the coaches that were coaching me, do their thing.

And then when we were at high school actually, and they asked them if they wanted to be our high school 7s, So he jumped at that opportunity and you know go into high school provincials with a national team coach was pretty cool.

We only got third which is probably dad's worst performance as a coach.

I think we overachieved that year.

Yeah so yeah he's always been there.

You know they like both my parents being always supportive of mine and my siblings sport goes whatever they have been like I just eventually chose rugby.

But my sisters are a national level field hockey player back.

In New Zealand and so that always go out of their way to support us and whatever those goals are.

So, yeah, it's been awesome.

That's that's wonderful.

Must been very proud for for you care.

And as a dad watching watching daughter play oh yeah they are proud of all the kids you know as long as they are happy and what they're doing and you know and you know, they are doing something like that.

It's, it's great.

So, you know all three of been we've been very lucky and they've all chosen to get involved and things like that.

And You know, I think team sport or and even individual sports, you know, they they teach a lot of discipline and, you know, a great character building and moving on to your coaching story.

So what was always your transition like from being an all black and playing over 200 game for tearing a Q-tip, becoming a coach and what were some of your coaching influences as you made that transition?

In those early days?

L went from, when I first retired, I mean, and I was still the I played for our local club team for so long and then obviously having a bit of experience away with national teams and that, you know, sort of helping coach as I was playing.

But when I decided I was enough, you know, I knew being in the club was in that if I stayed in there for the next year, I was going to get dragged back into plain because you know, that'd be short and you know, that's how I'll bring you.

Your boots and all that.

So I sort of stayed away from it for, for a year, made a complete break and then, which was probably the best thing I didn't, you know, I still supported them a little bit but, you know, just didn't get involved in the plane coaching side of things but then went back to went back and coached him for a couple of years but then got asked to do what we call the taranaki be side which would be like the provincial be site on did those recover games and then got us to help out.

See in rock me to help out with the provincial side internet, differential size, and assistant coach.

Those are sort of coincided with the time, the rugby went professional.

So the head taranaki coach at that time was asked to always helping out with the Hurricanes.

So they said to me that I needed to go full time and I would need to shift off the farm at that time.

So so yeah, we decided to take the Jump.

And so I went full time and move moved house to New Plymouth, which was about an hour away from where we actually live, which was a place for the taranaki province.

And and so, I had four years as an assistant coach with him or think it was.

And then five years, five years is the taranaki head coach and then it was lucky enough to get selected to coach, the New Zealand, under-19s for a couple of years.

So, we went a couple of World Cups.

We got second term And James Dubai, we're in the World Series World Cup and Dubai, and we won the World Cup and island with the under 20's and Cho.

It's funny how you look at things as coaching.

Because I believe that, what we achieved with it, with a team that got second, as coaches was a hell of a lot more than what we achieved with the team that won it.

Because, you know, the team that one of their guys like Sam white lock and karate and you know all those guys have all blacks.

Now we're as a team the year before had very few more blacks than that.

So I thought we achieve a lot more with the team.

We got second in the team.

We've got first.

So it's just interesting how sometimes, you know, player players make coaches.

I suppose so.

So, yes, I did that.

And that was our transitioned into the coaching side of things.

And then you've got an opportunity.

2008, you moved your family across to Vancouver Island, take of the Canadian men's program.

How did that opportunity come about and wasn't challenging to move your whole family across, you know, your kids Nicole Casey and Jaden.

Yeah.

I mean it was Yeah, I got the world got to New Zealand and you know new CEO came into the taranaki province and you know, it was time for me to move on.

Really?

You know you can't stay everywhere somewhere for ever and I applied for one of the Super Rugby jobs and I got down to the last two and the feedback I got was that I hadn't been outside my comfort zone.

You know, I hadn't I'd been in taranaki and, you know, I hadn't really As far as explored other other teams or other cultures, etc, etc.

So, you know, soon they're thinking, oh, what the hell we going to do, then I'm going to go back to the farm.

But then, you know, we looked at things and, you know, there's a couple of jobs that were were available at the time.

There was the American national coach, so I applied for that, as well as a Canadian coach and job.

And never heard back from the American guys.

But Canadian guys, they replied and flew over and had an interview and And we went from there and yeah, it's a big move.

You know, the kids were, I think they were 10 12 and 14 at the time I think I was so it was a big move for them, you know, and with Sue as well but you know if I found the eight kids are debt pretty quickly.

Yes.

Yes.

They've got friends that they leave but then they get into schools or get into sports teams and make friends again, pretty pretty quickly.

And then that also gets as parents, you know, you get involved with with parents of other kids and who they are involved with sort of thing.

So so the transition was, you know, probably lot smoother than what a lot of people would would think that their transitions are but because we're going to an English-speaking country to it's completely different if you go to a foreign speaking country.

So it was a no it was fine.

I mean, you know, that's still, you know, homes always home, isn't it?

And, you know, but Now, you know Nicole and and the others, you know, they've lived in Canada longer than they have in New Zealand now.

So it's Canadian citizenship, and passports and all that.

So, you know, they, you know, I don't know where Nicole calls home now.

Yeah, Nicole going to get exactly.

We get to you acts in a bit as well.

What was it like to use a young teenager to move to North America?

I mean, accent wise, I struggle to understand Robin every day and I've known him for years, you know.

So yeah.

Well, one thing that dad like messed out of that story is that we as kids actually drove a Hard, bargain to move.

Across that to move across to Canada.

So we said, when he was coming over for his interview that if he got the job, we would only move if we got to go to Disneyland.

Like that was our that was our thing.

So when he eventually told us that we were going to be moving to Canada, had the first thing that he said was well I guess we're going to Disneyland and then so that was something that actually eased our transition, because we stopped the Dale on the way.

So we were all looking Word like it was sad leaving, but we're all looking forward to Disneyland because that was kind of our goal out of the whole thing.

But yeah, now it's totally different.

Like I I love it here like all my friends through high school and University are all here.

I still maintain a lot of relationships with my friends back in New Zealand then and when I'm lucky enough to go back and visit we try to catch up with some of them.

The hardest part is leaving all your family and your cousin's like we both my mom and my dad.

So I we have really close-knit.

Is an and, you know had used to have like Sunday Sunday lunches together after church or Christmas and everything.

And so the biggest part for me was leaving the family and leaving that kind of connection, you have.

And and now, with my parents in Italy, my sister's back in New Zealand and my brothers and Ontario.

So I'm kind of a one woman Army out here and so sometimes, you know, you do get homesick.

So yeah, that's probably the biggest thing but but the move in general was Like like Dad said, it was super seamless around like getting involved in sports like getting involved in things and and having mum and dad there to meet parents and you know, see the next opportunity in the next opportunity.

And, and I think without the move, I struggle to see where I would be these days like the opportunities that it's opened up for us in terms of University and and work opportunities has been huge.

And so we've got to experience a lot more of the World by just coming here.

Like, when I was growing up, I would have never thought I'd be in.

In Canada, you know where it's negative 45 off the air.

So yeah, it's been awesome.

Well, your true Canadian.

Now, you got Street Credit after going up north, for sure, one of my first.

Well, the first time I actually connected with with you Karen was I was it was after my playing days owes.

I was just doing a bit of guest coaching at a7s camp that you were involved in and kind of overseeing and I'll never forget it.

You probably don't remember it but we were just in the in the Derrick highly Pavilion at Shawnee and we were walking up to one of the newer fields and you just He pulled me aside and said, do you want to walk with me?

And we we went and we took the long way to go about 15 minutes, nice and slow.

But I just thought like this guy's completely class and and you just you ask me questions just about the whole time and you know, we've had a lot of foreign coaches that have come over but not all of them.

Actually ask questions and take the couple boxes with the locals and that just that approach.

Not only, you know, not only that, I appreciate it, but it definitely impacted me as a coach as a Canadian.

But also coach says this now, worked in other countries.

So that just says a lot about your character.

Can you just go on back to your early days when you took over that men's program?

What was it?

Like with the program when you took it over and what kind of things did you put in place on and off the field to try and move it forward?

We're not finished because I went over first before before the family shifted.

So I had about a month or so there I think and then I went back in New Zealand and we come back together.

But well if it's got that in later, They decided to send me around the country to visit all the provinces.

So there's a bit of a whirlwind and then also there's a game over in st.

John's, and they said, oh, you go over and see that game, and st.

John's, and it's a couple players out of, you know, we think you should be looking at.

So, I taught me all bloody day to get there rain like hell, two guys.

I went to watch, never touch the ball and I flew I am.

Again, I left on Friday morning.

Got on Monday morning.

And you know, that was a real eye-opener for me, you know, just the size of the country and you as a big country but just you know, the breadth of it, they think it's perspective ways for listeners is about six time zones to get there.

Yeah.

Yeah, was and I mean, you know, there was out and I something like five hour flight and then a transition in a four-hour flight, it was.

Yeah, it's a long trip, you know, same as going across u.s.

or whatever.

But, but so there was a bit of an eye-opener, I found a very parochial, very Province per vote for ochio, you know?

And it was always, you know, There was a fierce rivalry between provinces, you know, there was a Ontario side, there was a BC side, you know, there was so there was that.

So that was always a challenge, you know, and my My Philosophy around, you know, International coaching because we're doing, you know, we were responsible for the international side of it and and I mean that the big challenges are there was no professional competition.

So there was no professional teams that players were getting their education.

From, I suppose with that, you know what, I tried to implement, what we tried to implement was, you know, a transition through the provinces that, you know, there was provincial links to a little bit, like New Zealand system really, that the provincial link pushed to the links are pushed to the provincial link, which senior push the national team.

But I was, you know, challenging such a challenging situation wasn't like I say, because Sighs the country and also because of the you know, you have different levels of competition and that side of things.

There's some you know, there's some damn good pliers and Canada.

It's just your they need to get, you know, they need to get into those environments where they are getting the data are training, you know, if they want to compete on the international scene, now, if you don't want to compete on the international scene where everything's great, you just carry on doing what you're doing.

But you know, for for if you want to, if you I want your top players to be representing your country in there.

You know, you need to have some systems in place that develop and be able to do that.

So we tried to do that, you know, you know, I would have to say, I wasn't as successful as I would have liked it to have been, you know, that side of things because you always find a political battle.

You're always playing other people playing even Club battling some cases.

So, yeah.

So that was a challenge but we tried and, you know, we gave it our best shot and you know, we had some Suddenly we obviously had some failures as well, you know, you know, I can sit here and say that we gave it our best shot.

Well, if you win every game, you don't learn much.

And I know from some of the, the sides I've I've learned or I've worked with that, you know, at the time is very frustrating.

And again, working with a national team, there's a lot of working parts and there's a lot of, you know, you don't have access to the players like you do in a professional side as well, full-time.

So, obviously you gain, you must have Gained a great deal from those challenges from those opportunities that have now set you up for Success.

So, what were some of the the biggest learnings you took out of your two World Cups with Canada, your experience running that this country and then you know, how is that?

How did that help shape you for your next opportunity?

Well, I think you're learning all the time like you say, how many are your learn and if you think you know everything, you know, you might as well give up.

Anyway, so yeah, I mean the New Zealand World Cup was outstanding, you know, from a coaching perspective, you know, because I was going home to I'm country sort of thing.

You know, I knew the lay of the land, so, you know, as far as organization goes, you know, I was able to get a pretty good program together when we're over there, you know, in the pre-program, you know, we went to Australia so I think, you know, we had a great team spirit.

I think in that in that in that tournament and, you know, and we play some reason with rugby you know we won won one game and then I think it was time we beat do it, then we do it through against Japan.

I think it was, you know, and then All France had to do was beat Tonga for us to automatically qualify for the next World Cup.

But of course, you have been the French, they decided to lose it for us.

But you know, that that, you know that tournament was great and then the went to the World Cup and 2015, I think it wasn't an England and, you know, I thought we played really good rugby there and we just didn't get the results we borrow.

You always think you deserve better but, you know, we just didn't get it.

I mean off, We adding at least shot the pieces, so I thought, but it came back to in the end.

I think, you know, we weren't exposed to that level of rugby for 80 minutes.

You know, we last 75 minutes.

We were, we were in the game and then the last ten they got over top of us.

And then, you know, the Romania game, which we were either leading quite easily.

And there's probably not a couple of things.

Just didn't quite go our way and, and in the end, they took us over as well.

So we went home with no points, you know, tail between the legs a little bit, but I thought we played some pretty good rug because we've performed pretty well against her.

Ireland as well and and think France was the other team that you not sure.

But anyway so yeah you learn from that.

You learn, not to take everything for granted.

Yeah, it's different because it's interesting to, you know, how you've got to adapt to things.

Like when I was in Canada, I had an interview for the blues job moves, Super Rugby job and New Zealand, actually John coup and got the job.

There was Herman me and Pat Lam.

Now coaching the first story.

We were the final three.

Pat was a coach but they asked them to reapply but so I had to interview and by Skype and and they were asking about my leadership philosophy and you AR do things from a leadership with Canadian side and what they didn't realize was a challenges that you know, you can't fly all your leadership guys in from all over the country.

You know.

You haven't got a budget to do that so you got to do things differently and you know so you learn how to adapt Up the situation you're in but in New Zealand, they couldn't understand it.

They couldn't understand it, you didn't have the money to do this, or you didn't, you know, didn't do it this way sort of thing.

So I think when you, when you're coaching and tier 2 country as Canada is, Yo, you've got to learn to make the most of what you've got and get the best out of what you've got and and you know, all the players and management and all that and they were great.

They give it 100% And, you know, there's some good coaches and that They all are all working to help Canada, be better.

So you've got to make the most of the resources you have.

Yes.

Certainly it's a tricky one.

I know from being in the US as well limited resources and it is tough to compete as a developing Nation as well.

But let's talk golf for a moment and it's not something we often say on this podcast.

But Nicole, I believe you work with golf Canada.

Can you give us a sum of your learnings being involved with that Sport and organization?

Yeah.

So I had a brief stint at golf Canada for just under a year.

I was hired in the professional championships apartment.

So my goal was to work closely with the PGA tour in the LPGA Tour and we put on the RBC Canadian open, which is a PGA event.

And then the CP Women's Open, which is the LPGA event.

And it was very different, like going against from working in team sports to working in individual sports was Different in how you interact with the players and the people and also the money like being in North America and rugby.

There's not as much money but going to, you know, the prize purse of the RBC Canadian open, the winner gets over million bucks and so the like standard of care, you need to give the athletes their request.

So you know over the top like everyone who makes a tournament gets driver and a BMW for the weekend, you know, they're saying at the nicest hotels and So I think it was very, very different for me and very eye-opening.

I definitely learned a lot from around like, professionalism and athlete here just being able to I guess have the highest standard for people and I think that's something that like is really well, I guess it's like when you're doing a bunch of different sports as a kid and you learn a lot of different scales and then when you go in the work environment and you're working in sport being exposed to two different sports like my experience with Be in a managerial role to be an advanced side in tournament services with LPGA and PGA players.

It kind of just expand your Horizon and I think, you know, there's there's different learnings you take away from each thing like I guess when we were with golf you know there's the risk of like well thunder and lightning, same as rugby but these people are carrying around middle Club.

So you know, you have to be a lot more Vigilant around that kind of stuff and I think just like being exposed.

Opposed to bigger tournaments and and, you know, now working on the World Series that that huge tournaments that working with professional championships in golf.

You know, we were selling buildings there for a hundred thousand dollars for people to sit in for for the day or for the weekend.

It was just that totally eye-opening to, to see how high class, I guess the golf world can be.

And then coming back to rugby where it's a lot more humble when and people love more, I guess.

Ground workers and, you know, there's a lot more volunteers and and things like that.

So it was definitely an interesting experience and I enjoyed my time in the organization a lot like the people, they were super friendly and you know, they had cowork programs like they had a little driving range and putting green at in the office.

So you know on people's breaks.

I would go down and hit some balls and stuff which was super neat.

So yeah, it was definitely a great experience.

What's good thing they had a one woman Army working there, you know?

Yeah.

Let's transition back.

So you were you were working with the 15s women as a manager before that opportunity and then how did you transition back into the women's program for rugby?

And how did the Olympic team manager come about?

Yeah, so I started at rugby Canada, as an intern.

So a lot of people don't know, but the interns are very weak and I got paid $1500 for four months work.

So that was one of my summer jobs going into University and I'm more just took it for the experience.

Came with it.

You know why I've always had a passion for the sport with my dad being so involved and so my job was more women's program support and then what happened is they couldn't get a woman's 15s manager for one of the tour's.

So I was 18 at the time and since I was an intern it was my turn to to go.

So I was started managing that program at 18 which was a little bit scary, you know, being the youngest person on tour and And being the one in charge more or less.

So that was my first experience.

And so I was doing the work with the woman's, with Dame's on like a contract or basis, why I was in business school at Eubank and so I would have go and tour.

I would do the work on the side, and it definitely wasn't a full-time gig.

And so, we were getting out for the 2017 World Cup and so that was kind of the Pinnacle of what I was working towards for that.

And that was an island and that was Obviously not as successful as we would have hoped.

We finished Beth, you know, we had a rough pool game vs.

Wales and yeah, didn't make our Center there and to this semi.

So that was that was super disheartening.

But you know, coming away with the your last game is when is always a plus and then after that I decided to go very left field and I went on Exchange actually to Thailand for four months.

So I kind of just picked everything up.

And I went over there to do a semester of University, kind of just to get away.

Way, do something on my own, you know, like not have as much support.

And that was definitely a huge learning experience for me.

And so then, I, why was there?

That's when I got my golf Canada gag and tried that experience, but they had another woman's manager and they're 70 and it just wasn't quite working out.

So they reach back out to me to apply and I did and went through the interview process, and yeah, and then I was back in BC and September 2018 and and been working on the World Series with that Olympic team since.

And you know, it's been a lot of a lot of learning, there's been a lot of up and downs and there's a lot of differences between 7 and 15.

So, you know, like with the sevens program, we have the full time structure.

We have the full-time athletes that they are taking care of day and day out.

And then you're tearing me only once a month.

So, you know, being away from home for two weeks and coming home for three and then leaving to another time zone for to it.

It takes a toll on you but it's really rewarding work and the countries and places you get to see amazing.

Like, I never thought I would go to South Africa or Dubai or places like that, like working on the World Series.

Yeah, that's definitely.

A like plus of the job, you get to, you know, experience all these things, you know, the days.

People think as a manager that is not a ton of work all the time, but the days are long, you're always the first one out the last 12 to bed.

You know, I remember this year, we had an athlete who broke her nose and the Dubai game in the Dubai final.

We're flying to South Africa the next day.

And I didn't get home from the hospital until 2 a.m.

and we

were up at 4:00 and I still had to pack all the bag.

So it's really long days and hard work, but it's really rewarding and feeling like you're part of the team and part of the success.

What are you doing, a great job.

I tell you what, as an international coach you live and die by your manager, having a great manager, and I went on tour with You 18 boys, team of the youth Commonwealth Games, Lee Douglas.

And I indeed Lee was an assistant coach for the men's team and we didn't have a manager.

Well, ladies never been more lost in his life.

So I'd assume the manager will add to some late nights at the hospital.

And yeah, we definitely appreciate all the work you do.

Let's switch the switch back over to you.

Karen.

So you made another fine choice and your country selections Canada.

And then you moved over to Italy.

Just just a quick question because I spent I spent two seasons.

In there in Ferrara Italy, when I was a younger man and the number one word that every time I ask, when things are going to happen and I got to put in context, I'm half the time.

My mother was born there.

So, I'm, I'm very much Italian but the number one thing they always said, when I said, when's this happening?

When's that happening?

When do I get to start school?

When I start this or everything was Domani?

So every day I walk into the office and I would say, do not start, do not start my day with tomorrow, because if you start my day tomorrow then we're in trouble.

And I just like, Just have an espresso and sit down, so what's life like in Italy?

And how is that transition to trevizo in 2017?

And that's quite alright.

Yea the the Italian lifestyle is pretty relaxed, you know, Domani meaning tomorrow and you know, it will happen, you know?

Or it will eventually happen.

It just might not happen exactly when you want it to happen, but it will happen.

And so you know, they're very ephemerally orientated.

People the Italians.

You know, everything, everything involves around the meal, around the kitchen table, you know, that's why they have a long lunches, etc.

You know, that's the time they catch up.

That's the time.

They talk very social.

So yeah, another the transitions been great.

I mean, you know, I've been with Canada for 80-odd years, I think it was and, and I got asked to apply for a job and the pro 14 and went through the process, and he got a job and trevizo.

When I come here, they were I used to be one of the champion clubs in Italy, when they played in the Italian Championship, you know?

But when they went to the was being called a number of names, but it's now, you know, they're going to spray 14 now.

They haven't been that successful energetic.

That a couple years earlier on with us, sort of mid table.

And but three years before I arrived, they were bottom and two of those years.

And second, the bottom, and the other year.

So the sporting director was a guy who had finished playing.

I got the job and he wanted, and he was a trevizo man through and through.

And he said to me when, you know, when they gave me the position, he said he wanted to see a change in the culture, a change in the way they played because they were very forward orientated.

Team a change in the culture, you know, concert coincide of the change in work ethic Etc, you know, changing in the values of the team and that was showing.

So I wanted to see that he said, you know, it was Pretty, open about things.

He said, you know, the first year, I just want to see a little change a second year, you know, you can work, no win, a few games to get towards the middle of the table third-year middle of day will fourth year, you know, if possible, you know, we'd like to get to the playoffs, which, you know, stop 8, sort of thing.

But so he was are no, he didn't have goals that were, you know, out of love.

Out of the realm of possibility.

So so yeah.

Different hell of a lot different than Canada because you know, you've got a full-time your you know, five or seven days a week now, weekly schedule, you know, starts Monday morning or, you know,

it's at 7:00 and, you know, if you have full days.

So, you know, you've got a, our staff set up.

As we have five coaches, we have three full-time physios, we have three full-time, zest, and see.

Guys, we have to analysis guys.

Then you have your manager and your Administration around that we have 51 players.

I think it is on the books at the moment you know?

And we need those because we generally have about 20 other away with the Italian national team.

So you know and then you add your injuries to that and the season is so long.

I mean, you know, your Seasons, you play 30, odd games a year.

So, You've gotta have a lot of numbers time.

So, yeah, completely different from that perspective, different.

In the fact that we fly every second week.

We fly either to England, sorry to Wales Island Scotland or even South Africa to play games.

So, you know, there's a lot of travel involved so then the management of the whole situation of, you know of the whole clubbers is completely different than what others in Canada.

Or in its yes it is a sport where it's also a business.

You know, you have those are challenges that you have to deal with as well.

So but you know it's been great here.

I mean, you know I got a really good coaching team when I first come in one of my Realms also need to develop a coaches and and so I had a South African guy who had been playing here in Italy for 15 years and it helped coach the last couple of years and trevizo.

I'm so he was in the coaching staff.

But then The three coaches were all first-year coaches.

So, you know, that was a learning curve for them to because, you know, as a coach young coach coming through you think, you know, you think you know everything and you're think you're going to make all the difference in the world and, and then, you know, you get two games, only you lost both them and you're looking sideways.

What the hell am I doing wrong?

You know.

So it was an interesting thing, you know.

Also you know managing the expectations of those sort of those guys and any other all there, all damn good coaches, you know though?

Carry on, you know, obviously, when I go bold, I'll still be around.

So yeah.

It's been been really interesting.

Very rewarding, you know, as you know, like, Nicole were saying, before around these sort of things, you know, if you have your planning things and then things, you know, your benefits from it, or you see benefits from it, you know, your it's rewarding.

And we've had three, er, really good years here.

There's last year obviously was good today.

Has been curtailed a little bit.

You know, we're here for another year at least.

So we're looking forward to that but one thing we learned on this podcast, it's that they're clearly family is not afraid to put the work in and put long hours and get it done, you know?

But let's talk about that last season.

2019, you were a recipient of the Guinness Pro 14, coccidia recognition Benetton Treviso That season.

First Italian side to reach The Knockout stages.

What exactly do you attribute that success?

Because we got a lot of coaches that are listening, and you know what sort of things did you add to that side?

You get them to that.

Area.

I think one of the first things you do, when you have to go, yo, when you go in somewhere was the same in Canada, you've got a immerse yourself in the culture.

You've got to understand, understand the people, you know, I think one of the one of the big things there was a little bit of same way.

I felt when you know, got the Canada as a as it was.

When I came here to Italy is that you know players did what they were told, you know, and the game, you know, coaches were very prescriptive players.

Never really had Ownership of anything.

So we tried to give them more ownership of things.

We also develop their skills and we spend a lot of time the first couple years just on skills, you know, catch and pass.

I mean, you know, they're Fords and even some of their backs used to get scared and Open Spaces.

You know, they didn't know what to do, you know?

And so they look for the contact.

So we used a done a lot of that and you know, that that year, I think we're the most awful late.

Ting team in the competition or S the most offloading team the competition.

I think we had some really good foreign boys as well.

You know, we have a couple of players from South Africa.

Are a couple from New Zealand, not your real top players.

But you know, you can't get, you know, sometimes your top players wouldn't suit the teams, they go to, you know, you got to have players that suit the suit the environments they go to.

So so we're very fortunate in that and, you know, and we've developed a spirit in the clubhouse Wise words, you know, we wanted to build a winning culture as what they want to do and it was interesting, you know, because I came from a background that you know, you gotta when you know you want to win the tournament but then you know, when we're doing our preseason preseason goals two years or three years ago, you know, they some ways.

Go said, you know, we want to win tomorrow and then some guys pipe down says, well, I don't think we can now and if they don't think you can win it while your name never going to win it.

So, you know, you have to readjust your goals and And now I think we're at a stage where they think they can win it.

So, you know, that's that as a progression.

Now, whether we ever well or not as a going in the lap of the Gods, but, you know, we'll work hard and see where we get to.

Yes, Robin Robin says dream believe succeed.

So appreciate that inside.

That's extremely available.

You know, Nicole did switch across the yourself, figure coming up, of course Tokyo Olympics moved across to 2021 how all of this stuff that's in Canada.

Approaching the return to train.

Yeah.

So The process right now.

Looking at how we can get the team back into the full-time training environment.

So, so the athletes have had about three months off now.

Well off their training from home, not in a centralized spot due to covid but we're working on getting them back.

Now this past week, the athletes that are based in Victoria just able to start lifting weights, again it at the training center, under supervision of strength and conditioning coaches, that's huge.

But the staff in general, we have On staff with the Women's National Team preparing for the Olympics.

And and you know we're lucky that we were on a great track last year.

You know, we finished second then third and tournament some leading into what was going to be the Olympics.

Um but now we're lucky we get a second go at it.

So all those mistakes we've made along the way, you know, note or is perfect, no, no games.

Perfect.

There's always learnings for both staff and the players and we get a second crack at it.

So that's kind of what we're looking at looking at.

Feedback from the tournaments last year, looking at where we can, you know, put more resources in order to help the team perform the best or, you know, adjust training accordingly.

So, the biggest unknown for us is and planning wise.

As we don't know, when the competitions are going to be, you know, World rugby has some outlined right now but but whether those go ahead, we have to just wait and see.

But yeah, it is, I guess it just keeping on the same page.

We actually have a staff meeting today to discuss to discuss more about that but it's Add to plan with so many unknown.

So I'll be in a debt for staff and athletes been a huge learning for us right now.

Just another day on the World Series.

Don't know what's going to happen in five minutes.

What will it mean for you to be part of Team Canada at the Olympics next year?

Nicole.

Yeah so I got my first experience at a major game is part of Team Canada down I and Peru at the Pan Am games is past year and you know having all the other sports around you is so different than being on the World Series, you know, you World Series, you share passion with everyone else.

You you will love the same sport, but when you're in a multi-sport game environment, you can learn so much from other athletes from other from other staff, you know, you grow your network, you have different people motivating you in different ways, the culture of Team Canada, as a whole is is super exciting.

You know, like the very team oriented.

I remember, we were in the gold medal game at pan am's and, you know, we had the field hockey team there.

You had Your baseball team there, you had every team they're trying to support you you to win gold.

And I think that that kind of culture is tip from Team Canada, as a whole is the huge and you know as a kid playing sport, you know, you love Edwin for years.

Come around and the Olympic games are on and and you love the idea of like whole one day, maybe I'm going to be an Olympian, but that obviously doesn't happen to many of us.

And so it's awesome to be able to be a part of the team and a different aspect and helping.

You know, those athletes that do.

Exceed in the top 1% of of people and their craft and help them when when gold.

So yeah, I'm super excited and looking forward to the opportunity.

I'm looking forward to watching, Canada, get on the podium again.

I know what's going to happen and thanks, thank you for all you do for our sport here and I'll transition back to you final thoughts here.

But is there any possibility that you and your wife will be attending to watch your daughter?

Be involved in that event next year.

Well, you never know like you say, you know you know what happens, you know it would be great if our the opportunity come we certainly know we would certainly jump better.

You just don't know how the cards fall.

You must be a proud father.

Oh yeah, you know, we watch all the all the tournaments, you know, we stream them.

So we watch watch the cat Canadian women's women's games and you know ways to see you, see what Nicole's doing and And and supporter and that way supporter and that way, you know, it's great.

It's yeah, we really enjoy it.

Well she's lucky to have a mentor like you as well.

Just last thought for all those those those aspiring coaches out there.

Just what would be some words of advice?

You would share it because I know in Canada for myself, I've had it bad, you gentlemen, like, you for a long time.

So that's kind of the one of the ideas of the podcast is to try and share this.

Share this valuable information.

What would you, what would you pass on to rugby?

Hi.

If listeners.

Oh, I think, you know, as a, as a coach and as a player, you know, you're always learning, you know, you're always on a better Coach this week than I was two weeks ago.

You know, you have different experiences all the time and and you have to You'll learn from them.

You're going to make mistakes.

You do make mistakes and but it's just about learning from those and and, and, you know, nothing's free, the, you know, you've got a, you've got to work hard at it, you know, I think I just said last week, our players had a week off because we've done a six-week block after we were out of lockdown.

So we're done six weeks of training.

So they had a week off, but I had all the staff and we are like a three or four four day workshop, where we looked at how we work and all that sort of stuff.

And it was, you know, you, you learn from those sort of situations, you learn talking to other coaches, you know, just listening to them.

There's been some great podcasts on, you know, over the soul lockdown situation or, you know, covid situation.

So you're always learning and you're always going to be better and And and sometimes things won't work out the way you wanted to work out but you just got to keep at it and you know think that's that's thing that you know young coaches need to need to understand, you know and your style changes.

You've got to find out to style and watch it philosophy.

As you know, I mean when I first started coaching, no one knew about questioning way to coach your, you know, everyone just told everyone what to do and you know players To that.

But you change as your experience or suppose and and you just go, and you got to enjoy it because if you're not enjoying it, you might as well give up and go and do something else.

Well, it's such an honor to have an all black and Rugby World Cup winning sensation to plus a future Olympic team manager.

All from the same family, with five Rugby, World Cups, between the two of you.

The rug beehive.

Thanks you.

Thanks very much, guys.

We appreciate certainly the invite, to be honest, been really enjoyable and all the best to you, okay.

Awesome.

Thank you guys.

Thank you very much asked here by Nicole.

So next, stop talking does para NADA, but I suppose that's the job of a scum offset.

He feeds five out from the online.

So to to accept finds Jordan, Jordan skins one back to Hoskins at 22, he comes pattern on the inside.

Why in d.c.?

Thanks for listening.

You, Sleek Sensations.

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