Hello and welcome to another episode of Fox Crickets podcast The follow On.

My name is Courtney Walsh.

I'm a senior journalist based out of Melbourne but currently in Perth, and I'm talking to Ishauer, who is from the UK.

Played eight Tests, took twenty nine wickets, another eighty three Ody eyes and twenty two t twenties for England.

But you're based in Adelaide after being in Perth.

It is that sort of start touring ashes, isn't it, with people spread around the country.

How are you?

I'm very well, yes, obviously still trying to process and understand what happened in Perth, but yeah, very quickly after that, it's a case of okay, what am I going to do in my time?

And a good friend of mine is playing a show in Adelaide sound Fender, so I've come to watch him.

I think it's a very very good way to get out.

I had some friends who saw him in Melbourne I think a couple of weeks ago, and rave reviews and judging by the reaction just walking around the streets of Perth, there's been some pretty doleful Wish fans walking around.

So you've done well.

Yeah, well, I mean Marshall broadcast, did you get out and get to Adelaide.

There are a.

Few different options.

I mean that there's so many things to do in Australia.

That's where you know the tourism comes in.

Right West Island.

There were you know, there was some chat about maybe flying to Bali.

Adelaide.

Obviously Adelaide Hills and you can go into Wine country.

So yeah, it does offer the tourists an opportunity to go and see the country.

It's quite the it's almost like a space of circus or you're talking about Sat Fender.

It's like a music act packing up after if a Test finishes so rapidly the Aussie cricketers were or at the next morning they were you know, Travis Head was mobbed at Adelaide Airport.

I'm not sure if you were mobb when you arrived in Adelaide, but a lot of the Fox staff I know that they were packing up and basically vacating Perth Stadium within fifteen minutes of that match being finished.

The English cricketers have had to stick around because they had a Lilac Hill match that they're get out to the golf course.

Yes, so let's raise some my brows.

But it's just such a dramatic sort of production.

It's almost it is almost like a traveling circus.

It really is.

I'm not quite the cult hero that Travis Head is Courtney, but so I just kind of slipped on in there were like arrived at an laid airport.

But yeah, for the England boys and.

Especially you know when they came into this series with so much hope and you know, there was so much anticipation about how they would play at the start of the tour.

Knowing that you know, previous successful teams they've they've won the first Test or they've come away with a draw.

Well, we know that's never going to happen with this England team.

But the fact that they were in such a good position to have suddenly you know, lost the game in two sessions in the manner that they lost, that will definitely be It feels like you're in a tumble dryer at it's all just coming at you and before you know it, it's just hit you.

So I don't know whether it's a good thing that they have twelve days between you know, test matches, because you often just end up steering on it.

There was a bit like Australia last year and they were stunned by India and you know that the papers were getting stuck into the Australian team, you know, not tough enough, what have you.

But then they came into that next Test and that's you know, the sign of a brilliant teams that they were able to bounce back really well.

England have to do that.

There's no other option.

They don't currently hold the ashes, so they have to find.

A way of.

Parking that almost I don't want to say forgetting it altogether because there are so many lessons and learnings from that Test match, but they do need to kind of think clearly about how they're going to try this win this next one, especially Australia who have an unbelievable pigball record.

They played so many of them, and that in itself is a thing.

Tactically, England can't just assume that they will go into the Prisbone Test imagining that the the Test is going to go a certain way and the pitch is going to play a certain way, because the pig board just brings in so many different variables and it becomes a session by session situation, and I actually don't think England did that enough in the last test.

You know, when the heavy roller wears off, we know that it's going to do a little bit more.

England.

If they'd have just hung in there for that afternoon session, they could have reached the rewards in the evening session.

A bit like Travis's head.

So I think it's one of those situations where they're just going to be clearer on how they're looking to throttle up and throttle down rather than trying to be all out attack.

We'll get onto the big burning questions I suppose leading into Brisbane, but just a couple of quik ones.

I suppose since we last saw you were last summer in Australia.

I was remember being in Paris midway through the year and commentating with a good friend of yours at Roland Garros Gig seven.

It turns out you're a lady of many hats.

You do a lot of things through the summer, and even in terms of already there was a big event here the night before at the Camfield.

I think you're doing the same thing again in Rismon as well.

But what have you been up to?

What do you do.

What were you doing at role and garrissing the middle of middle of May or likely well that was.

My preparation for Wimbledon, actually, Cordy, so.

You're a servaler.

I loved it.

I mean it was the first time I've been there.

You know, being in Paris is always fun anyway, but just to kind of be around the clay courts and just get kind of accustomed to who was doing well or not, it's always a good lead in the Slam at Wimbledon.

So yeah, I guess another string to my boat getting involved in tennis coverage, and I've absolutely loved it.

But you know, with the cricket, I know that I don't need to be preparing for three months in advance to be on top of everything because I've obviously done so much of it and I've played the game.

Whereas with tennis, I find as soon as Wimbledon's over, I kind of just put the notebooks away and then it's onto cricket season again.

So it's really just a case of you know, sokia and all in and terminology, you know, just being able to talk tennis I think is really good and obviously great to see you down there as well, which came as.

A bit of a surprise.

And look, it's always fun seeing people that you know on the circuit.

You know, at the Olympics as well, you know, I was bumping into different people from different countries Australia and New Zealand and so forth.

So yeah, it's always, it's always you know, you talk about it being a traveling circus with the cricket, but with the tennis it's it's quite similar.

One of the things I wanted to ask you about giving your role as a broadcast run a commentator, there's been a couple of viral images that have come out of Perth of your competriots.

One of your colleagues, Michael Vaughan, in his reaction midway through Stuart broad there is a meme that he's circulating around social media, even just Arrival Network that think they just trying to stomach what was going on.

Do you feel of what happens sometimes when you're called on camera or is it just great to have that sort of reaction that I suppose that interaction that shows how normal and natural it is for everyone from commentator to fin to those in the middle of the emotions sort that go with cricket and sport.

Yeah, well I've been doing this a long time now, Courtney, and I still forget that the camera's on me in the commentary box especially, and they've been doing the Fox box, which kind of shows us all in our emotions as and when we're calling.

Because I'm the kind of lead commentator, I call the action straight away, so you can hear my energy levels go up quite a lot, and when you're watching in the context of the fox box sometimes you can't really appreciate why I've had to go to that level because it's just come out of nowhere.

You know, England losing three wickets in the space of eleven balls is just crazy, so naturally you have to be sort of loud and on it and you kind of raised with the levels of the crowd as well.

So yeah, I got caught out for the Women's Ashes a few years ago.

There were a lot of different images of me with a camera Test match.

When it ended up being a draw, England were winning it convincingly, then all of a sudden Australia came back in.

Then it was looking like Australia were going to win, and then to kind of have the sense of relief that they came away with a draw.

You know, you go through every single emotion under the sun, you forget the cameras on you, and I guess you know we're trying to be partisan, but in an ASHES series, you know, our natural kind of emotion comes through sometimes as players that have played the game.

So yeah, I mean stir abroad.

I was in exactly the same kind of feeling inside.

But obviously I'm trying to call the action as well, so I have to bring my professional hat to try and call it as best as I can.

So does sound too biased?

I can tell you the extends to the written press as well.

I had the good fortune of sitting a couple of seats down from a former English captain, Mike Atherton, who writes brilliant brilliantly for The Times in the UK.

And after Joe Root fell on the first day and I think England were four down, the response was very succinct.

One curse word with an O before it, and it was like, yep, that sums up that situation.

But it continued on and I guess, well we get towards the cricket.

There's been lots of conjecture as to what England should do in terms of their preparation for Brisbane for the pink Ball Test.

A couple of players were playing at like like a couple of fringe squad members Bethel Pots and Tongue.

They've been released to go and play a match in Canberra, a pink ball matching Canberra against a Cricket Australia or a prom Minister's eleven sorry in Canberra.

People have been asking why doesn't the rest of the squad go?

I think Ben Stokes was pretty blunt when he said, no, that we believe in what we're doing.

Stewart Law, the former I suppose Australian batsman who I think had English heritage.

He said, I think they're doing the right thing.

Because the Canberra pitch, it bounces pretty low compared to Brisbane at the Gabba.

You're going to get them up around your sort of chest type.

So many different views as to what they should do.

How do you assess it?

Is it as much of a whirlwind as what we saw in the first few days.

It's pretty tricky.

You have to think about the preparation they had coming into the protest, and Lilac Hill certainly wasn't getting as much bounces as the per Stadium.

So and you saw it in the manner of England's dismissals.

You know that that kind of edge came into play in the Channel, especially when they gave me the extra bounce Australia.

So you know Brisbane will be similar conditions, not as much bounce as maybe per Stadium.

But for me, the biggest thing is around the tax elements of a pink ball test.

Now.

I you know, whatever they want to do in terms of preparation, but they have to be thinking clearly about what they might come up against at different stages of the Test match.

Day one, day two, afternoon session, evening session.

When is when is that light going to come down, When is it going to start to do a little bit more.

Think about the Australians.

You know, it played into Australia's hands.

You think about what they would least want to do in that first Test and it's Mitch start bowling lots and lots of overs, having to go to the short ball.

They were, you know, thankful in the sense that Brendan Doggett was able to come in and bowl that short ball when it got a little bit flatter and they got off the hook the bowling attack in my opinion, by not making them keep coming back to bowl more rovers and I think you know, Mitch start recognized that he knew he had to take early wickets for them, so keep putting a dent into that batting order.

So without comings in Hazerwood, I think coming into that Test match they would have been concerned about how it would play.

So the fact that it finished in two days, Mitch Stark is still fresh as a daisy, You've got potential pac comings coming into the next Test match.

It played right into their hands.

I think for touring teams you've always got to think about what does the opposition least want to do, and that they don't want to resort to the short ball so early on in a series for a sustained effort because they want to make sure they last for the four or five Tests.

I also think the next Test probably plays into Australia's hands again because of the different stages of a pink ball day night Test, in the sense that when you're bowling in those at those times you want to be bowling a little bit fuller and Mitch Stark is the best at that.

You know, he averages seventeen.

He's taken eighty one wickets in however many pink ball tests he's played.

He is the king of the pink ball and the fact that he's been able to get into some nice rhythm at Perth means that he's going to be He's going to be the key, key element for Australia when it comes to the bowling department.

And so that's what I'd love for England to be thinking about more rather than what's just happened.

How can we put pressure back on the Australian team.

And it isn't always all out attack with the bat.

Sometimes it does mean let's back for two sessions here, let's get through to the next day so we're in a position to really make the most of the day conditions.

And I really hope that that that's what they're thinking about.

I think in your career you took around two hundred weekts or so across all formats for England.

How would you have felt about having to back up within thirty overs or so?

Is there a concern And it's been raised by a few people about the fact that baseball is brilliant to watch, and it's been successful at different stages.

Wasn't so successful in Perth, but they were in positions where they could gone on with it.

But just that the strain on the bowling attach.

You know, they were all down on pace and the second day after being fast, furious and particularly fearsome, to then come back down to the packa being on the second day, how hard is it for a fast bowler And is there a concern?

Well, you just saw it in the way they bowled in that fire linings.

Look, Travis had played brilliantly, Let's make no bones about that.

But if you look at the highlights and where they pitched the ball to him for all his boundaries, you're going to see a similar pattern.

You know, the short balls weren't getting up that they weren't you well directed a lot of the time.

I know he played some unbelievable shots as well, and I'm not taking anything away from his innings, but you know most of the bowler's pace was down and it is a consideration.

At the same time, I understand.

Why England want to play this positive brand of cricket and it's what has saved been well in the past and it can really put pressure on Australia.

But it's recognizing the key moments in the game when you've got your foot on the throat, which Australia do all the time.

It's knowing that that afternoon session they were ninety nine for one ahead.

Can they just get through that session?

Back two sessions and that's all they needed to say to each other.

It's just bat two sessions and they would have batted Australia out of the game.

Now.

I imagine it's quite a tough thing to do when you're in the mindset trying to be positive, you want to feel bad on ball and you don't want to take away the simplicity of some of the players who just seeball hit all.

So I feel like the messaging to different players probably needs to be different and what works for them to say, actually, I want to get.

Through to the next session.

I'm going to put away my drive for the minute because they're bowling in some good areas, good channel and I want to make sure i'm there so I can capitalize in this evening session.

When you know that the bowlers are a lot more fatigued, it's not going to be doing as much.

The ball is going to be a bit softer, and so it's it's really just understanding yourself is a better to know how to apply yourself in different situations.

And I'm sure they would have thought about that on the back of that last Test, and I just hope that they have.

But also sorry, as you mentioned, you know, if anything, I don't think they would have thought about the kind of length of time for the bowlers because they're quite There were quite a few of them.

They had four frontline quicks plus Ben Stokes.

But you just saw the impact it had, even when they're bowling five six kilometers an hour slower.

It just brought Australia into the game and so it's something they will need to consider ahead of this excest.

One last one in England.

I'm doing an extended series on the two thirsand and five series for supports dot Com that they're you and that famous triumph by England.

England lost the first Test, but Michael Vaughan told the players, hey, we took twenty wickets here, yet we didn't better as well?

Canvince Stokes in the English hierarchy take from this.

We had Australia under the pump twice in that match.

We were in position.

Is that the way they bounced back in Brisbane.

There's no doubt that, you know, they will have to put themselves into a positive frame reminder, and I think part of the frustration for not just them but everyone watching was the fact that they were in such a good position and it was a real opportunity and they just didn't close it out.

So absolutely they will take those positives that the way England bold is some of the best fast bowling I've seen on Australian pictures from a touring side in a very long time as a unit.

You know, we had just Berit Bremer here last year and here is a one man bad.

But the fact that everyone looked like they were bowling with consistency, with aggression, with pace, I think that was probably the most exciting thing from the Test match.

And so how do they really try and channel that focus to make sure they're getting that more often than not for the remaining part of this.

Series Australia, despite that famous win, they've got some concerns and some questions and some things to consider as well.

It was when Kowaja is clearly to be concerned.

You had English make good runs at Lilac Hill against the English Lions a century and unbeaten one fifty odd Matthew Renshaw, who some thought was probably unlucky or potentially unlucky to miss a spot in the squad.

He made one hundred in a pink ball Sheffield Shield match.

Travis Head at the top of the order.

Many things to consider there from that front.

How do you think they'll play it, What do you think happens in terms of the Head Kwaja sort of situation and perhaps a change in the middle order with potentially you know, English coming in and Hidstone at the top.

Well, I think they've got two options either as Mcauhaja plays or he doesn't, and that depends on his fitness.

But I think if he is fit then he will play because he's got too much experience for Australia, but also at Brisbane and at the Gabba and in pinball matches too as a batter.

So if he does play, then he should open.

But there's no reason to say that down the line.

Travis Head can't open the batting for Australia and it's it's actually quite amazing that they've they've potentially found found an option there in him.

So they're probably the two things that need to be looked at from an Osmakawaja point of view.

And then I think depending on fitness, it depends how Cameron Green's pulled up after that last Test.

It depends how fit Pack Cummins is.

Do they want to risk him in this Test match knowing that Josh Hate might not be around and there's Murders that you might not be around for the whole series.

So it really is a case of how they're trying to manage their bowlers, what they're trying to do in terms of supporting them.

The pink ball test, as I said, couldn't have come at a better time for this Australian team because it means that they can just bowl some nice lines and then let the ball do the talking, you know, in twilight conditions and in the evening.

And Nathan Lyon, who's been pretty good in pink ball tests as well, does get extra bouncer on the Brisbane surface and can probably bowl a few overs because it didn't bowl too much in Perth.

So that means that you do have a few options.

Do you look at b Webster again, you know that that's an option too, But I think Jake Weatherall did enough in that last Test to worry, you know, another opportunity here.

But I think a lot of the decisions around Australia's team will center around fitness.

Probably we had Brendan Doggett debut for Australia alongside whether or you touched on whether orl than the sick and he needs and how he showed some good signs.

I think he spoke about the confidence of the head sort of when Trevis Head said a bit an unleashing and almighty I suppose raw out there.

What do you make of Brendan dogget on debut.

Look, I think Brandon Doggett was brilliant.

I mean, he nearly got a wicket with his first ball, and someone you often find it with players that have been around the circuit and they come in and they don't necessarily get phased by the occasion.

Look it probably you know was quite an anxious feeling and always nerves around a Test debut.

But the fact that he was kind of just able to slot into his line and length I think just shows you know, he really backs his own game.

But the fact that he was able to come in later on, because as I mentioned Mitch Stark was probably reluctant to go to the short ball sustained short ball theory because he knows he's got to stay fit for five Test matches and so who else were they going to look to, Not Scott Boland.

So Brendan Doggett was the guy that came in after lunch.

I think it was that first that first day and he was able to change up his length and all the short stuff and he was tracted a few wickets on the back of that, which just took pressure off the rest of the bowling attack.

I think I think he did his role and he fulfilled his role really well.

He's able to get the ball moving both ways and I think that just offers just something else to this Australian attack.

In the absence of Cummins and Hazelwood.

The toss it's a pink ball test.

I mean here in Adelaide, I was thinking the last two tests of covered outside of Melbourne.

Now I was in Sydney last year, but the last week test outside of Melbourne Adelaide pink ball Perth two days.

My hind was whirling in Adelaide that they can be really confusing beasts pink ball taste.

They can go rapidly, but things can change by the conditions.

It can be pleasid during the day and then all of a sudden their ball has demons.

Yeah, exactly right.

And the toss is so crucial it becomes even more crucial in the pink ball test.

You know you win the toss.

You want to bat first because then you can dictate terms in terms of how how long a you're batting for now.

If England we're batting first, you want them to go into the next day because you know they get the day conditions twice then and you have an opportunity to dictate, like I said, and maybe declare just before tea when it's starting to get a bit darker the lights are coming on.

Twilight hits a little bit earlier I think in Brisbane, so you know you're really thinking about the timings when you want to put the opposition in.

That's if they get there.

But you know, batting first means that you do have the opportunity to try and dictate terms.

If Australia were batting first, you know England, I think we're back themselves.

Tory involve all Australia out before the second day.

But that's where Australia's experience comes into play.

They have players who can really make the most of the flatter conditions but then understand how to play, you know, when it is doing a little bit more so.

Again similar for the Bowl as they're going to have to adjust based on based on different times of day.

Just finally, yeah, I did touch about talk about you had a function over here in Perth with your charity.

Can you tell us a little bit about the charity and also I think we've got another event coming up in Brisbane and let us know if there's any others coming up.

What is the charity for and how can people I suppose get involved.

Yeah, So the charity is called Take a Lead.

I founded it a few years ago now, we became a charity in twenty twenty three and really the purpose is to advance epity and diversity in and increased participation for women and girls.

Now that seems quite broad, but actually it came on the back of me looking at my own personal journey and recognizing that I'm one of six players of an ethnically diverse background that have ever played for the England women's team, and I was kind of wondering.

Why that was.

And if it wasn't for my parents' support when I was younger, I probably wouldn't have stayed on the pathway their support.

But also players that are on the pathway that really kind of took me under their wing.

So what I did I kind of dropped down to community level.

I was looking at the interest for salva Asian girls, but they weren't necessarily taking that step onto the pathway, and so I wanted to create something that was going to help support that journey.

But also I recognized that to solve that problem you need to bring everyone with you.

And the stat that came out from Women in Sport the girls between the age of ten and fifteen drop out a sport twenty percent more of a rate than boys.

And then I spoke to Morer Dodd, who's a former Matilda's player.

She came out with this really interesting quote that I really resonated with, which was girls, sorry, boys need to be competitive to feel like they belong.

Girls need to feel like they belong before they can be competitive.

Now, I was really really lucky in the sense that I had the support from my mum and advice from her at key moments on my journey where I probably wanted to quit.

But if you don't have that, then it's quite easy to kind of leave the game and leave the sport.

So really we're about trying to make sure.

Every environment is as good as it can be on first entry to cricket, and it's about providing opportunities for girls and women at every level because we know there's underrepresentation at every level.

So the biggest thing that we do is we have a Champions program.

We pair up young players coming into the pathway from unprivileged minority backgrounds with players that sort of tear wanted the two counties that they're on the pathway already they're eighteen plus.

We train them up, we recruit them, we train them up, they go and deliver workshops and after three sessions with these players, they've built These young girls have built self esteem, confidence and they identify more as cricketers and there's a real team unity there in the team sessions.

So it's really about wanting to try and keep girls in cricket after they have first access to it.

So that's why we partner with all the charity partners.

They provide the free to access cricket.

We take them out of that and we provide workshops for them.

And so what we're trying to do on this tour is to try and engage interest, raise awareness and to increase the fundraising so that that can support our programs for next year.

But I know that there are similar challenges here in Australia, so that's why the raising awareness is really important.

And we've got an amazing donor, Rick Johnson, who has kind of set this tour up.

He's a girl dad, he's.

Got two daughters and he just wants to make sure that they have a better support system for them to stay in cricket and whatever that looks like.

And yeah, we're trying to bring girl dads with us on the journey.

And he has said that whoever donates, he will donate too, depending on who they are.

So if it's you know, a general member of the public, he'll donate a certain amount.

If it's a domestic cricketer two hundred and fifty pounds, test cricket of five hundred pounds, and if he comes across Kylie Minogue, then I think he's going to donate five round into the charity.

So if you've got any if you've got any Kylie contacts, then that would be great.

But look, yeah, we did an event in Perth.

We're going to do one on the second of December at Babylon in Brisbane.

Alan Border and Matthew Hayden are going to be there.

We're going to do a panel chat and a few others from the world of cricket.

But yeah, you can get your tickets if you go to Rick's Ashes on Instagram.

That's where you can find tickets and support what we're doing.

And it's a fantastic cause and it's something having even just seen with the indigenous crickets, you know, the second Indigenous and talking to Hannah Darlington from from Sydney who comes from an indigenous background, but she's talking about trying to raise and add and broaden the diversity among cricket in Australia and it's it's got to be something that's only for the good.

So good luck with that.

Hopefully get along to Babylon.

It's a brilliant, brilliant venue as well, and you know we might need some entertainment before that test because let's hope it goes for three days or four days Yeah, we'll see.

Might the odds on it going five days thoughts, Courtney, I'm not.

So sure that we're lucky.

Well, look, I know you've got you've got some stuff to do.

Look, thanks so much for joining the Fox Sports podcast the follow on.

You're going to be the lead commentator across the KO Sports Summer of Cricket for the next four tests.

This fabulous, intriguing Ashes series.

But more importantly, good luck tonight.

Have a ball at Sam Fender.

I hope it is one last rollicking concert to finish off the what's been a great tour.

Well, he's heading to Perth, so if people are listening to this and they're still in Perth, he's on on Friday night.

I think it is.

That's just down the road from where I am.

That that'll be their last gig of the tour, so that that's going to be properly a Walkers.

I love it.

Well, look, I have a ball tonight, and again, thanks so much for your time.

Really appreciate it.

Thanks Courtney,