Hello and welcome to another episode of Fox Crickets podcast The follow On.

My name is Courtney Walsh.

I'm a senior journalist with Fox Sports in Melbourne looking to the Ashes coming up, and it's an absolute pleasure to be joined by former England fast baller Matthew Hoggard played sixty seven Tests for England, two hundred and forty eight Test wickets, twelve of those Tests, almost almost fifth against Australia and thirty five wickets against the Aussies, and was a starring member of that two thousand and five Ashes Series one by England, considered one of the greatest ever.

How are you, mat Thanks for joining the further one.

Yeah, that ways nice to see you.

I have to be surprised though, when I said I was going to be invited to talk with Courtney Walsh.

I was expecting somebody else, just.

A little taller and a little more.

Do you ever play against Courtney Welsh?

Then he will be my first ball in Test cricket, Is that right?

Yeah?

I made my debut against the West Indies and i'd push forward because it was last ball of the over.

I pushed forward the full defensive thinking he's going to try and get me out and the ball went Welcome to Test cricket.

But yeah, it nearly clew me up.

I was gonna say I made him once when I was about eight years old.

Net in my head actually headlines here it's sort of similar, nothing to what you might have been spoiling, sort of two thousands long as you've kept yours.

But I don't know because I suspected facing the wis See, these must have been absolutely frightening giving those legends at their head.

Ah, it was when you when you're a nervous youngster on your debut at the Home of Cricket at Lords, I think we needed thirty two win with two wickets left, and it was Darren Goff and Dominic Cork at the crease and I was next in.

I was chewing my bat handle.

I was fully kitted up because I wasn't you see my bat in prowess.

I wasn't the greatest and being scared Whitlers going in next.

I was just bricking.

I was just yeah, it was.

I was so nervous going in on my Test debut against Courtney Walsh and the Ambrose as well.

Yeah, I think Curtly, I mean I think Courtney, what took five hundred and twelve test?

We get some curtly, Well, it must have been.

They were all right, weren't they.

They didn't give you much in your enough.

I never had the joy of facing them, and I'm well, so I don't know if it's a joy.

I never had the.

Frightening.

So but look, I.

Suppose what you as I said, we've got you on today in part we're doing a special feature sort of series looking back at the at that iconic series in two thousand and five, and I was going through I suppose some of at least some some great players that you played against in that series and also with and figuring out what people are up to, and I thought, well, what is Matthew hogging up to?

And I came across a link to some motivational speaking, So what what are you doing?

You've got I see you've got Hoggies grill so I knew you were running a business and you've leaned into the surname there.

But what is what is life like for Matthew Hoggin after what's the motivational speaking about?

Yeah, obviously, retiring from international sport, from professional sport is hard at the best of times and when you retire thinking well, what have I done for the last eighteen years, twenty years?

I've run around after a little leather thing.

What qualifications have I got to go on and get a job, because you have to get a job.

And I tried my hand at insurance.

I tried my hand at foreign currency and I hated every bit of it.

And I had to find my passion, which was eating and drinking.

I spent a lot of time in South Africa playing cricket when I was young, growing up.

Yore before you, before you played for England, and.

Yeah I was.

When I was eighteen, I went over and played club cricket and then that progressed into playing first class cricket for Orange Free Steak.

So I had Handsy Kronnier as my captain.

I had Alan Donald as an opening bowling.

At the age of twenty, I'd only just got into the Yorkshire books and then now I was playing with some absolute legends of the game and learning how to bowler in South Africa.

But their lifestyle because they've got the weather, they've got the woods, they've got the meat, and just standing around in a backyard lighting fires, cooking amazing food, chatting, shit, eating and drinking.

I just love that.

And I thought, we don't do it properly.

Over England.

We see a little bit of sunshine, we go right, then, let's go to the supermarket with a crappy sausages, crappy burgers.

We pre cooked our chicken in the oven, and we don't do it right.

So I wanted to elevate people and say you can cook anything on a barbecue, including Yorkshire puddings, souflets, cakes, and we opened a business for It's a cooking school on fire, basically a barbecues, an thing you need to know about barbecues, bries, whatever you want to call them.

Girls, we teach how to cook them and it's absolutely amazing.

But then coupled with that, you said, right then, over the last eighteen years twenty years, you've been in a team, You've been in a high performance environment.

You've had lots of ambitious people that are highly driven at the cutting edge of your of your game, and there's a lot of crossovers with businesses and everything else.

So it's about building teams, making sure that everybody's got the role in their places.

And it's a long winded answer, isn't it everybody?

You're getting the best out of everybody you've got available.

Well, and you touched on you know some athletes who have difficulties transitioning in terms of the speaking I suppose in terms of the motivational stuff when you when you move into that what what listens can you do?

Do you talk to corporates?

I think you showed us some you know, some footage from the background there.

I think you're still buy stuff in the north.

No, I'm in the Midlands now.

I'm in Lester, smart bang in the middle of the country, easy for traveling.

But when yorkure sacked me, I captain Leicester for four years and we thought as soon as we're finished with we've moved back up north.

But we Sarah, my wife, found a lord of friends, forged a life with herself.

Ernie was happy at school, my lad and it's beautiful countryside, it's handy for going up and down the country and we've stayed, which surprised both of us.

I know, I know, it's sort of like the LISTI are.

I know Booming, which is a bit further here and.

Just just a little bit further west.

And I am familiar with that sort of great clouds behind you.

But as I said before, I basically I shouldn't be showing startings in there be behind you there, But I suppose well we we we talk about you pretty briefly and the ashes, you know I talked about you played twelve tests.

I think early on a couple of those tests were a little rough.

I think you had Matthew.

Hayden who went to Brisbane and went right.

Then, it hasn't rained for three months.

It looks a belting pitch.

There aren't being batters are in no form whatsoever.

We've got a young bowling attack won the toss let's bowl first and I'm blaming NASA.

Nothing to do.

And that was the test, my unfortunate Test match that Simon Jones when went down in the outfielder and did his knee yes, which cut his his mash series short, which was really really sad.

What a fantastic bowler Simon is.

I was still whatever you want to go.

I came across Matthew Hayden who had just come back after Zimbabwe beating the world god number.

So it was in good form and I can remember, right, just bowl your best ball and make them make the big the big shots.

So what I bowled, what I thought was my best ball, went for four.

I went, Okay, no worries, I'll stick to my plan.

I'll ball my best ball again and see what happened.

So I bowled my best ball again and it went for four, and we went, oh Ship, what do I do now?

So I was, I was fairly young in my career.

I didn't have a plan seeing D and B and C and D.

So I was.

I was Matthew Hayden, and so I was brought out of the attack and Craig White came in, who bowled ninety mile an hour, and it was obvious that Matthew hated ranking because Hedos just kept on tracking him first over and smacking him straight back over his head for six and half of me went, at least it's not just me and the other half, Oh ship, what the are we going to do now?

So, yeah, I was my first ASHES experien is over in Australia back in two thousand and Mornich look today, whatever it was, Yeah, yeah, it wasn't wasn't a happy experience.

But so we we were I think we were four nil down and we went to Sydney, Steve Warm we won.

The fantastic fans best fans in the world kept on the single on beating in two thousand and three, so we might we might be four nil down in the series, but we weren't beating into it was brilliant.

Well.

I had to chet too to Michael Varney, who kept him in five series and he was he said, I was asking him about it's a famous moment in I suppose in Australian cricket history, because Steve Wall makes a hundred in what you know in that last ball, I think Richard Dawson outside and I'm told Richard Dawson now introduced himself.

Met Cunum and these.

Ryan Spinner told me that that Richard Dawson himself by saying, I'm the person who bold that delivered to Steve Wall.

What Michael, what Michael Vaughan was saying was that, yeah, you know, it's a great shot and the atmosphere is amazing.

What people forget is that we actually won that, we won that test.

They came back to Steve walking in early and and hey it wasn't a clean sweep and in the BAMI army must be pretty much pretty good when they're up behind here saying we're unbeating and it's right now.

I can't remember if it was the first innings or second innings, but I actually got Steve and I can remember Steve White and Richard Dawson through then diving in and holding up his non branded bat because he didn't have a bat sponsor for that Test match, so I had a clean bat for for for the Test match.

God is going his last one hundred in his last game.

There you go, that's something I have to go back and have a look at the video.

That's that's were doing something on the Growless moment.

So you've you've given a little tid bit of information there.

Yeah, will you talk about that that you know that that brutality I suppose leading into this Ashes series, I might get your thoughts on a couple of the I supposed the key topics, and one of them is and it's the same for you know, Pat Cummins, the Australian captain.

He's back backsman and a bit of time in the nets, so they think he might make Brisbane.

I suppose there's been conconcerns raised as to whether or not Mark Wooden joffer Archer will be able to to last the five sort of tests of the summer.

There are some gaps, you know, there's ten days or so between Perth and and sorry in Brisbane, and then there's another decent break to Adelaide, but then you get pretty much back to back pretty quick with the with the MCG and the SCG.

How hard is it for a fast bowler to get through those five tests in Australia And is it different to sort of playing.

In the UK.

Is it a harder footing?

Like what are some of the testing moments about playing here compared to say you're trying to get through five tests at home.

I'm going to see you left a fast bowler and I was just a.

Median fast fall will go within.

Yeah, as you said that, the concerns around both camps, obviously the Poms are saying that you're aging attack and it's gonna gonna take a lot out of the body.

Where we're scared of having warm up games in case we break down in warm up games, so we've got them out on the head.

And and there's a difference between playing bowlding in the nets.

There's a difference between playing with your mates, and then playing against foreign opposition, and then playing in a Test match.

There is so that the intensity and the pressure and the rather and just the amount of I know, you say, I've put on hundred percent through my body in nets, and I put one hundred percent body bowling at the Lions.

But until you get into that first situation where the crowds roaring, the barmy armies behind you, it's it's the ashes, your beans are pumping, you got.

You can't put yourself in that situation.

So for me, I had to bowl and get the oars underneath my belt to feel that I had enough rhythm, enough bowling to bowl well.

Other people like Andrew Flintoff used to pick up the ball ball three balls in the nets and say right then, I'm ready.

So I don't think it's a one solution fits everybody.

It's not one blood fits all.

I think you have to be very it's careful of how you're pigeonhole people and say and this is the correct way around it.

But the hardships in and you see, I'm going to purpoo everything.

Because cricket's a right, very very simple game.

It's twenty two yards long.

There's bits of wood at each end, and you're not going to be the same.

The length might change by thirty centimeters.

And it's such a simple game made complicated by the people that play it.

There's all a lot of bold dash around it.

I think the hardship is the intensity.

I think the easy but is the weather.

Because yeah, yes it's warm, so you have to take on your fluid.

You have to rehydrate.

But that's why you get put down to third man and fine leg, not because you were a ship fielder, just because you have to rehigreate.

That's correct, so so you reh but I found that you didn't.

It didn't take us long to get loose.

It was easier on the body in the warmer conditions because your muscles didn't get as stiff, you didn't tighten up as much.

So I enjoyed playing in the in the warmer weather.

Obviously not the blistering heat, but mid to late twenties was fine.

And the back to back to back is that that is the hardest.

But it's the as a as a medium fast bawler, I didn't have to have that express intensity match changing spell because my I swung it out.

I was lying on length.

I wasn't going to scare batsman.

I wasn't there for my express space.

Whereas if you put somebody in and saying right, then your job is to bowl express to rough the batsman.

Not that is a different kettle of fish.

You're just running up and be a metronome and work in a length.

So I think that's the hardest bit, day in, day out, getting your body in the right space to bowl ninety five miles an hour, which I've never done, so I don't know what that feels like.

I'll ask you just one before we get into the big series, because I mindful the old clock it's chicking.

It was put to me that Injury Flintoff, you touch on him briefly just before with the three deliveries.

But Bin Stokes, there's a bit of being Stokes, I suppose in Injury Flintoff during Giant said one thing with flint Op is that he used to walk in and you just knew did he given everything in eats up in the chair, but you know they.

Left nothing at it.

He is a skipper, he is the plier.

How important is his summer.

A pivotal to me?

As as an old player looking in I'd hate being captain by him because he kept on winning the toss on decent decks and bowling first.

What you why are we not batting?

But the results speak for themselves.

Is the way he goes around captaincy, the positivity that he is, the way he inspires winning bawls when his back, when his field and his three in one cricketer covers all facets wholehearted.

You know that he will give his all and be very difficult to get the ball out of his hand because when he's in rhythm he loves to bawl them long spelts.

But he is also the captain, so he can't take the ball out of his hands.

But that's why he gets injured, because he gives everything nord to win that game of cricket.

But on top of that, it's the way that he conducts himself and the way he gets the best out of his players, because I think the players respond so much better with him on the pitch and they they they want to play for Ben, they want to bleed blood for England for Ben, to make sure that we come out with the right with the right result in the end.

So apart from his bat in his ball and his field and in his captains.

I think the team are a lot better with Ben in there, so no pressure Ben, but I think if he stays fit for the five five days, our five games, then it will be very beneficial.

Well could it be twenty years on another tryph victory.

We'll get it onto this great series.

I've heard tales a bit Elton John delivery in champagne after I've heard stories of it's being hit by the camera bus after a celebration.

The first taste heard England looking over at the Aussie celebrating the drawer and taking confidence from it.

The great celebrations.

You're a serf.

These all manner of difference.

I'm or whatever.

We'd love spilled the dirt, but we'll start like, just run through it first.

TI.

Maybe we don't worry about the first tis because you know.

What happened, Yeah, yeah, yeah, But what happened is we hit the os Is hard.

We hit Langer, we hit Hayden, we hit Ponting, and when I say we, it was Harmy.

Harmy hit hay and hit Langer, hit Ponting.

And when Ricky got hit in the head, not one single person went to see if it was all right, yeah, not blood coming down his cheek.

Not one person went to see it because we didn't want to just take a backward step.

We didn't want to get bullied because you look at that side that we played two thousand and five, we got Gilcrest coming in at seven seven, you got five wickets down.

You're thinking yes with the beginning of the tail at guild drift in your boat.

I mean you're bowling McGrath, Lesbie, Brett Lee and one.

You didn't have a week link.

There wasn't a week link in that side, and you were by far the best side in the early two thousands.

So we we we knew we had to play on top of our game.

We knew we had to step up and look you in the eye and take it, take you on face to face.

So that that incident where we didn't we didn't go to see if you are right, where normally we're all apologetic and sorry q open and we bowled out for less than two hundred one, so we knew we could take ten wickets.

We knew and it was a decent deck, so we knew we could take take wickets.

So all we needed to do was score runs, which we didn't do too well, but it was the start of that Ashes series.

We knew that we could hurt you, and we could match you with firepower, we could take wickets.

And then we had KP coming down and tracking McGrath and smacking him back into the pavilion.

And nobody does that to glenmo Grado.

Nobody tracks him and smacks him back.

And KP said, why not, It's just a ball.

Don't play the man, play the ball, and it was great.

Mats were warning down at Hampshire, so he knew that he was sweeping in reverse sweeping.

It just changed a dynamic of what was achievable against your bawling attack, and we knew we could take wickets.

It wasn't Matthew Hayden coming out and scoring three hundred and seventy r, however many who did at Brisbane.

It came out and got hit and got hurt, behaving normally when you're bowl him a balance.

So he used to go, well, then I have a cup of tea and then I'll put you.

So to see him get it and see Langer get hit on a on a lord's pitch was was very encouraging for us.

Adam Gilchrist I spoke to and he said that at the end of that first test, now you know, he said, thinks memories and the change.

But he said it was interesting that he doesn't think he had a drink afterwards, and he said, that's that sid to us as well.

These guys did sit serious.

They want every bit of this and so you get to look, you get to uh, the second test, you get to it in the morning.

You're out warming up and and does the cat and bus hit the Aussies.

McGray goes down steps on the ball, but they win the toss and they send your weep.

Yeah, I mean, what's all that about.

We talk about NASA's stupid decision at Brisbane.

Rick is decision to send us an edge bast and as stupid.

I mean, you just opening, but your best opening bowl has just been cutted off and you've got the best spinner in the world, Edge Baston, and you decide that you'd bowl first.

And Ricky says that it was because we batted so poorly at Lords and our second injury wanted to put our battles back under the pump.

Bonney came into the dressing room and said, you know what, same thing because we thought we might have read the right it's the right, same thing, but we need to put pressure back onto the horsie bowlers a bit like KP did back down and we went out and scored four hundred duns.

Four hundred duns on the first day one stage KP and Freddie were having six in competitions.

And but also we heard what Shane one thought about his captain's decision to bowl first was from KP.

Is that what had happened or.

You could hear him so so he's just taking shame one out of the first innutes because it's a decent, decent deck at edge Bastard.

So with the confidence from the captain saying might go out and express yourself, you've got the little bit of niggle between the Australian starting at the start of the second Test match with with Jane Warton four hundred runs, that's basball, isn't it.

That's bassball basball?

Chris message if that they also better pretty rapidly times and Metty Hayden may better rapidly.

Yeah, I said, Gilcrest batted rapidly.

But yeah, so to go out and score four hundred runs in the first innings was just some and we lost overs as well.

We didn't play in the entire day.

We lost ten or fifteen overs to bad light and so that was a huge confidence boost and that's why we smashed you.

It's bast by two runs.

Talking out in that last day growing up in Australia played great.

Crickets and he said, no, we're going to done a position, surely not videos you have to you have to finish him off.

And there was a couple of you know, there's a couple of drop catches.

There was some moments and but the chance came and I asked the Aussie cricketers back in some vision of that dismissal and.

He didn't have.

He didn't have.

He's cloud on their best but.

It was.

It was.

And Simon Jones a couple of was earlier dropped from down at third man and John was one of my best mates.

And I was thinking he's going to be crucified the amount of crap he's going to get for dropping the ashes, because if we had lost that Test match, it had been a completely different series because to come back from to nil against that side was almost in an impossible situation because you didn't do that against that side, so I thought he's gonna he's dropped the ashes.

And then Bretley smashed the ball through covers.

We still had an extra cover up and I thought, what's kp doing out there?

But it was only one and then obviously Kaspovich gloved the ball down the leg side, which he did.

He loved it, but he didn't appeal, He didn't say it didn't look like he was angry because his hand wasn't He didn't have a clue.

So if the bad didn't have a clue, the umpire just saw the glove.

We didn't have a clue.

It was just an amazing relief of energy, thinking, right then, we've gone from cruising this game to losing the game to winning the game.

And that's what that series was like.

All the way through the next three test matches that there was ebbs and floors, and there was winners and losers every day.

But to finally get over the line to go one all against Australia at home, it was it was a huge confidence boost.

You get to you get to old Drafford, warn tastes six hundred wik gets, Trustopic Vaughn, you kept him makes one hundred and sixty six.

McGrath has his worst every figures into his cricket, doesn't take a week at nine for eighty six rain on day three warn he makes a ninety pointing Men of the Match in that one.

But you still almost get them.

Lee McGrath survived twenty four balls and it's a draw.

Yeah, made you say you've touched on that before.

It's when you're so close to winning and you don't quite get them.

It's like losing because your expectations you win, you win, you win if you if you're gonna draw, you're gonna lose the game.

You put the defensive bowers to say out as a batle's fault.

It was the bowler's fault.

It was the umpire as well, the weathersfold.

You come up with excuses, but if you're gonna win, win, win, and you don't quite get there, it's like the rugged being pulled out from underneath your feet.

And I remember Varney pulling us all into the square and pointing at the Australian dressing room and you touched on it.

There were high five and hugging and kissing like they've won the series, not just drawn again against US.

They were celebrating like they've won the series against US and they've just held out for a draw.

And that's to me when the mighty Australian aura just went.

There were just eleven blokes with the same insecurity as the same frailties that we had.

They were up against the pump, they were under pressure and they were relieved that they haven't lost and Vonnie said, we've gotten by the ding Dan dudes, we're going to go on and win the s And to me that that was the Edge Bass and Test match was pivotal.

But that moment, there was the time where I thought, you know what, we are going to go on and win that series.

I knew we had a fantastic chance before we started.

I thought lords was a little bit of kick in the go nuts.

Then Edge Baston was okay, like we've we've proved we can do it.

Old Trafford.

I thought, you know what, at the end of the game, we've blown our chance because you don't get second chances against Australia.

They're not the side that we'll let you repeat yourself.

But then the celebrations after that was just a huge confidence boost and a real positive momentum shift for us.

We get to trade bridge.

You take five O the test, but it's bloody tight.

Gary Pratt runs out.

Ricky I don't know if you've if you've spoken, Ricky sets and he was pretty rattled by it all, like you know seven and that last day and you and actually Jars go ahead.

When he's the guide.

England felt more confidently.

Chris, now.

That Gary Pratt run out.

I was chasing after the ball, try to stop it going for a boundary.

So I'm sprinting like a blue hours flying to stop it.

But it straight to cover and runs.

It's a stupid run to start with.

And he said, we were cheating because one of our balls is off the pitch game.

It was in the back of an ambulance going to the hospital.

So what do you what do you want to do?

Put on another fast ball at the field?

Obviously we're going to put you.

You don't carry bad fields around to be the twelfth man.

So we had a good fielder out, but it is it straight to cover and none was his problem.

But yeah, it got tight.

I mean we made them follow on for the first time.

For first sceneds and knocked them for two hundred and nineteen and then they every bend of a two hundred ninety seven, Yeah, I did take your target.

Yeah, so one hundred and twenty eight was it?

Yeah, yeah, so we will lose wickets.

I'm a nervous watcher.

As we we discussed my first Test match, I was breaking it having to go.

When you and you walk around, you see or you walk around, what were you doing?

Like I was in the I was in the physios room hiding.

So there's split levels of trumperage.

So you're upstairs so there's a changing room, then there's upstairs into the physio's room and shower room.

And I was in the fizzials room listening to it on the radio and thinking, ship, I'm gonna have to get padded up too, So I come downstairs to get my pads on.

When I say Andrew flintoss stumps tumbling towards towards Gilly.

Then I saw Garret Jones trying to smash him one back into to Leicester.

I had to go back and I'm shit in it, shaking like a leaf.

You get out into the middle, you take a big, deep breath and say right, And this is why we play sports for moments like this, and this is why we've done all that hard moments like this.

So you walk to the middle thinking, you know what, I only need twelve.

I can edge twelve.

So you go over there about you see Gilo.

He tells me that Bratley's bowling fairly fast and Shane Want's turning it both ways.

So yeah, it was a nervous time I saw it.

I still haven't watched this series back yet.

It's been twenty years.

I haven't watched it back.

I've got the DVDs and the cup and everything.

I've seen highlights, and there was highlights on the TV the other day and Richard Benno was commentated on and over.

I think I might have scored eight in that over clear two through.

I clipped.

I put my back in the way at Brettley and it went through the covers for two, and then edged him down to find leg for two.

And then he bought me a full toss which I've smashed through through the covers and if it hadn't been for the fans going, it wouldn't have reached but scored eight.

Richard Benno said that was an over played with a great sense of skill.

And maturity from Matty Ogd.

It's talking about by batting and then Gino next door smashes it was a final and shot.

I'll have to do this left left, left handed batter batted the four or five, but he smashes it full tosses and it hits the shimpads and it should have been for four and has gone on a balcony.

I've gone, oh, We've had to read group.

And then it's the funny thing is that I don't back when we win, so I'm not normally at the crease.

One win.

We don't normally win against Australia.

We only needed it might have been only one to win.

Jarles has just clipped it into into the peads of when you think, haven't it's whapped.

It where and then and then we're trying to negotiate whether we're on two or three?

Uh what happens and walking off with Gilo in front of the boming army and the crowds rupting and everything else.

To one up in the Ashes series was it was a feeling I'll never forget.

It was.

Obviously I'm not known for my batting.

My son rips me about do you know what you were a bowler and everybody only remembers your shot.

Wasn't just one shot.

He's seen the highlights.

Yeah, he's eighteen now, so he's he's.

Allowed to watch it legally.

I want to watch you, bat.

He has to have a beer first though, watching.

So I mean you were too one up, but your job is still to be done.

Yeah, I know that that.

I'm told that the forecast have to be dodgy when you get to the oval, but you've got to get there.

Yeah, you got the upper hand, but but.

There's a break in between as well.

Okay, it wasn't just backed about that.

There was about ten days I think in between.

I think it was a setember tests from memory it was, Yeah, it was.

It was late on, really late, and then it should We've now got a different pressure because we're not catching up.

We're not trying to be the impostures anymore, where we've now got to win or we don't have to win, we have to we have to maintain and that was a it's a different kind of feeling and we're not We were used to it because we were unbeaten in two thousand and four, but not against Australia, so we got as you said we went.

There was a little bit of weather around and the biggest thing for me that I remember that Test match was the Australians coming off Hayden.

They come up with a bad light a lot.

What the freak are you doing?

You have to win this Test match but you're off and to me that was another white flag surrender.

Well it wasn't a normally the Australian push your chest out right, we'll go out and we'll smack it all over because we were on top and I think we were.

They were scared of Steve Armison, not me.

They went in for bad light and I couldn't understand that this decision.

Because you basically you've made I think three seventy three in the first sities.

But I think it was hell before the first time.

And then they took light.

Again the second day they took lights.

Yeah, I just couldn't every time they took from that Test match, I couldn't understand what they were doing.

So so I said, there was two things I remember was the Australians taking bad light and KP smashing it.

And I say smashing it.

His first ball was he went in on a hat trick Glen mcgra and it was it got hit on the shoulder and got caught, and from the dressing room I thought it was out.

I thought he'd loved it and all, and he batted like a cat on hop tin roofs.

He came in for lunch and Vonnie just went just go out and smash it, and he did.

He went out and he was giving it the old try and pull and up Tait and Lee and some of them.

He was middling out of the ground some of his top edge and shame warn dropped the catch.

It was you know, I was a nervous watching batting.

That did not help, watching flail his battle bout to all parts, getting dropped, getting half chances smacking it out of the park again.

I was hiding in the coaches room this time.

So there was a coaches room on the side of the changing rooms and me and Ashley Giles were playing a game of cards.

I can't remember what cards it was.

It wasn't proper playing cards.

It was something like misfits or who knows, just to try and.

Get straight.

But watching that because that was scary.

This this bit was all right.

So we were hiding the but Gylo scored fifty.

He went out and fift in that so he played remarkably well.

I can remember I went out into bat and Brettley he knew when Brettley was pissed off and started getting it and most of all the quickest spelling bowled at me at the Oval and I said, have I annoyed you?

And he said no, I'm just pissed off where this series has gotten and so and any bowl quite quickly at me at the Oval.

But yeah, just to see KP and Gilo put on a partnership and then to be out there when Glo hit his fifty, was again batting well, not my bawling, my batt I remember batting more than my bowling in that series.

Well, I mean, I think he took four wickets in that match.

I think it was for the series.

It was a pretty series of the hundred to go, but yeah, it was.

It was.

It was a great I remember going back to to trent Bridge.

Piers Morgan was sat in front of the wives.

I get put onto bowl and he says, what on earth are we bowling this clown for?

And he's in front of my missus, Rachel flint Off.

No, no, no, that's my wife.

Rachel Flintoff wrapped him on the shoulder and said that Peers, you've got to be careful what you say around here because you never know who you sat with.

So then I come on the ball.

I take three wickets fairly quickly, and Pears Morgan turns around and says, I think I your husband and apology, and so I just went, it's all right.

My husband's just made you look like a complete and not at tool.

I love that.

I thought that that's brilliant.

I love that.

And you know there was we tacked at the start like there were great in the Australian team and then English team.

He went through it just fantastic players from from the top to the bottom.

Andrew Flintoff.

Runs twenty wickets, which a think it was the first since both of them around to do that, and to do that in that series is a pretty phenomenal sort of performance.

Yeah.

I mean Freddy had not played against Australia before and he got be in his bonnets and right then I want to see how good I actually am and was phenomenal in that series of great talent.

Man picked up vital look, it scored some vital ones.

But as you said, like Ben Stalks, you look to your inspirational players to stand up and be counted.

And that's exactly what Freddy did.

He stood up and be counted.

He got on that.

We got on my tips by the amount of times he put rocket Man on the on the on the speaker, so over time we went out to offer tea or for launch if the rocket Man was blaming out.

Hence John and it was his testimonial and he got all two and he put and John on two.

He got up and sang rocket Man with Elton John.

It was it was amazing the amount.

But you know, we talk about how good Andrew Flintoff was, how good Shane warn was that series, how cricket was was the real winner because although we were on treastful TV, we're on front pages, back pages, middle pages.

We were on Channel four.

The grati gratifying thing.

The best thing that came out of that series is that when I go around to cricket clubs and do presentation nights or to to do award or you get stopped on a street.

You said, Joe, I want to thank you because our club had twenty people, twenty youngsters playing cricket before that series.

Halfway through that series we had one hundred and twenty.

So we inspired a generation to to pick up a bat, to pick up a the ball, to get down to their cricket club.

And to me, that overrides everything that we inspired a generation to start playing cricket.

Joe Route went to second in the leading run scorers, he mentioned two thousand and five in his interview after he'd gone behind Sachin Tendulk, And that is this original.

You play sport to leave a legacy and to inspire a generation.

How many times you see Wimbledon on and you see kids get out of the tennis rackets for two weeks and then put them away.

So to have people come up twenty years later saying I know where I was during each Test match, twenty or thirty year olds now called thirty odd year olds now coming up and saying you're the reason we started playing playing cricket is why you play sport.

Yes, it was fantastic at the time and it was brilliant, but that we're still talking about it twenty years off.

So that to me is the best thing about that series.

In the way you're talking and you talk about Charles and I think when I spected your add he was saying, how a group of you guys or a few of them caught up recently, you know.

To talk about defect.

I mean, it's a pretty a special thing you have.

You have the bass ride to where you have all the shenanigans that go on fantastic, but you have the lifelong makeshifts twenty easy on the track.

And it's amazing how you see it in all sports and here about.

But as soon as you get back into a room stack you've never been away.

The banter, the camaraderie, the love that you feel for each other, it just comes back instantly, which is is why we play sports.

It's why we love the game.

It gives your lifelong friends and memories.

And I've still got the memories to go.

And I finally, and I said at the time, at the end of two thousand and five, I'll watch it when I've got grandkids with a pipe.

Sating with your granddad used to be good.

I ain't a granddad yet, so.

You can hold on.

Yeah, I'm holding on as long as possible.

So, yeah, twenty years on, still talking about it.

Well, you know, mindfully you've got the beautiful Doberman.

That's that's what I'm doing underneath it, and.

He's ready to go.

So I'll ask you right there, he's ready to go for a big walk out in those fields.

So I'll ask you one last one before we go.

What's going to happen this summer?

So there's going to be results in every game.

I think your pictures a result wickets nowadays.

I think would you have liked your ball on those ones better?

Better than the ones that were flat?

I think both ball and attacks will take twenty wickets.

I don't think our our batters will now wondering not to be rooved against your top five.

But it's not a right.

I can name you the top five and you can put them in any order and we'll be all right.

Before the Test selection you couldn't name them.

So the batting is going to be the weaker link for you.

Results in every game, we're going to win one more than.

You three to two or is it to wash out and Sydney as always?

Yeah, it's like playing in Manchester?

Is it like?

Now we've got I've got to say it's been an absolute thrill and I really appreciate the walk down memory Line.

It's yeah, a pleasure to have you on the follow on and look forward to UH to see what nfolds of the summer.

But you take that one for a walk.

Oh, thank you very much.

Enjoy enjoy watching it live.

Thanks so much for your time with There's