[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about this plan a year.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's good, except it sucks.

[SPEAKER_00]: So let me do the plan and that way it might be really good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[UNKNOWN]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_03]: Hello, and welcome to it!

[SPEAKER_03]: It's got accepted socks, a movie by movie, and television series by television series, Herthledude the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

[SPEAKER_03]: This time, we're going to be taking a look at fantastic four first steps, released in July, twenty twenty five, when you could have saved cinema from being entirely defiled by the multiverse by going to see Zock in the Flying Doctors instead.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm Tim Werthington, and we've finally got what I thought of Fantastic Four first step shortly.

[SPEAKER_03]: Meanwhile, Jordan Media gave his thoughts on Fantastic Four first step to his musician, Gareth Hybrins.

[SPEAKER_03]: Gareth, where could people find you?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I play the bass for a bank or co-break, and he can find us on bankamp and Spotify, and I also present a podcast called Rich Specticus, a Simpsons and Modern History podcast, which I co-host with Tom Williamson, and that can be found on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and that it's own easily located website.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so before going further, Gareth, what happens in fantastic fourth-thirst steps?

[SPEAKER_01]: Herbie and four less important people, the fantastic four, who we all know over on Earth eight to two eight apparently, have a magic baby and fight God.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, that does lead me fairly into my second question, which is Gareth, how much you know about Galactus before you saw this?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't think I'm the world's authority on Galactus, but I have always liked the character.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was interested to see how it would be adapted to the big screen, given he didn't exactly work out very well the last time they tried to do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But there's a few things I find really compelling about Galactus.

[SPEAKER_01]: Number one, he's essentially a Kaiji as a Godzilla fan of quite a fan of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And secondly, he is the evil for an antagonist, often but written as evil, just a false nature, and therefore very different to the kind of gangsters [SPEAKER_01]: and Goolees that they would usually be fighting.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, we will come back to those earlier attempts during the Fantastic Four and Galactus in particular shortly, but I am so pleased that Galactus turned out as well as he did, because I had a number of causes for concern.

[SPEAKER_03]: My main one being, not the casting, because Ralph Inerson, aka Finchief in the Office.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's a great actor, and that's all come back to apparently they cast him over more prominent preferences for his ability as a voice artist.

[SPEAKER_03]: There we did actually play Galactus in that costume and they just scaled it off, which I didn't know until after we'd seen it, and that is pretty impressive, but it was mainly that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Now, this is like people express bafflements about when I said this online, but the key for Galactus in the comics with me was always, because you know, he normally has those glowing guys at different intensity, but the occasions were, he drops that and you see his actual eyes expressing an emotion, one of the most prominent being when he loses temper with the beyond the restartasy crit walls.

[SPEAKER_03]: But Ralph Inneson, I'm not sure anyone that's ever actually seen his eyes before now.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I was worried thinking, is Galactus just going to be a body that's not going to be that emotion?

[SPEAKER_03]: And do you know what?

[SPEAKER_03]: It was the almost nonstop.

[SPEAKER_03]: You really got a sense.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like you say, this isn't a villain.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is somebody tortured who's afflicted, but there's need to devour planets.

[SPEAKER_03]: And seems like he doesn't want to be doing it either.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, I mean, it does seem very tiring the whole planet devouring side of his job, which is his only job.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's very keen to give up his go-getting life as a planet-consuming gather-bout.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the Herod lies one of the slight problems with it, which is that Galactus doesn't really have the build-up.

[SPEAKER_01]: that I'm feel a character like that would deserve.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a few things around that kind of, it should be a final boss, but this is the first Fantastic Four film in the MCU.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think some of this might have to do with the whole Kang unpleasantness, should we say, taking one of the major players who I'm sure will come back to from the Fantastic Four's Rogue Scalery out of commission for this particular film.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's particularly telling when they go through that montage at the start that they deal very swiftly with some of their other [SPEAKER_01]: Less attractive villains, shall we say?

[SPEAKER_01]: Such as red ghost and a mad thinker.

[SPEAKER_01]: Although I am annoyed, we didn't get to see the mad thinker's android.

[SPEAKER_01]: Or some Andy is called in.

[SPEAKER_01]: She hawks single green female.

[SPEAKER_01]: The also so skip to the end a little bit of a practice, because I would have liked to have seen him set up as more of an antagonist before we got the whole and I wanted into this part of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I suppose time just wasn't really on their side with that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Probably not, I think you're right about the Kang aspect to it.

[SPEAKER_03]: And actually this week, Kevin Fire, he has set in the interview.

[SPEAKER_03]: Remember, in what I thought at the time that they just felt already before the Jonathan Major stuff blew up, that Kang wasn't working or ready that he wasn't another Thanos.

[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, a kind of, although my problem was that he was a bit too close to Thanos.

[SPEAKER_03]: As much of attention to the character had, I don't think it was coming across on screen, I think it would have got very confusing and I think Galactus was sort of...

I'll be honest with you, I thought there would go to use him, and that's Big Bad, and obviously that ended up being Dr.

Doom.

[SPEAKER_03]: When they drop candy, they must have considered Galactus at some point, but also, I think that had to skip the Big Buildup, because that would have been too close to Thanos as well.

[SPEAKER_03]: This sort of he is very slowly coming.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's fair.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's got very slow moving transport as well, which I've put in my notes is a unicorn.

[SPEAKER_01]: fans of the popular transphobic robots I'm sure will agree.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, when he eventually gets there, he's dealt with quite easily, which didn't sit massively well with me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was glad he didn't fall for the original sort of baby switcherude plan that the fantastic four came up with, which I assumed they co-wrote with Wiley, Kyouti.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's been foiled many times over the run of the comics.

[SPEAKER_01]: If he hadn't been, he would have destroyed the world, and he [SPEAKER_01]: I can't really go any further with that, but I was still a little bit disappointed with him sort of stumbling into a portal that effectively had a side that it's saying, warding big portal exactly here, antagonists may experience humbling thwartings.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I can understand your frustration at that.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I hadn't really thought about any of that, to be honest with what the watching get, because I just kind of thought, hey, we're getting Galactus at last, yes, there are some big fights with Galactus, although interestingly, none of them used their powers that much.

[SPEAKER_03]: in the whole thing until Sue goes absolutely berserk when again I was going to come to this later but I'll get straight on to it.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think the problem had always been with the fantastic forums that they tried to change them too much.

[SPEAKER_03]: They never gave that centre they were celebrities and loving it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Johnny always portrayed as [SPEAKER_03]: pit unpleasant really none of his redeeming qualities.

[SPEAKER_03]: They tried to do all kinds of change things to Ben, Reed might as well have not been there half the time and to be honest with you, Reed barely stretches at all.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it can Paris and two in the two thousand and five film where he's doing that dancing at a party, where he's wrapping his arms around himself, calmly, and lots of women are going, I think you know that's a very welcome contrast, but [SPEAKER_03]: They really have to have the maps that you spot on and who would have thought?

[SPEAKER_03]: The perfect way to do that was to go literally back to the beginning, back to the original sort of fifty specific areas of sixty settings, including some of the villains that, when they say you couldn't do them now, it's not, well I mean, you could argue some details about the original model, but it's not for reasons of political correctness, it's just the indiscontext.

[SPEAKER_03]: You couldn't do a dark reboot of these silly characters, which is what they need.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, just join the story for years later that they've already defeated that you say the Mad Dinker and the Ablow and Gigantaur and so on.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think that worked really well.

[SPEAKER_03]: I just could not have predicted, maybe that's what they need to do with Blade, given that being so much trouble with it, is set the first Blade movie in the Twenties.

[SPEAKER_03]: Because maybe you do need to go back to what created these characters to, which essentially they did with things like Iron Man.

[SPEAKER_03]: was literally going back, you know, with the story of data, but back to the start of the story.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that's why they did hair.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think just by virtue of being different but true to why the Fathastic Four course on the first place, they finally got them right.

[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think we should talk a little bit about the setting because the visual design in this film is absolutely breathtaking.

[SPEAKER_01]: I loved the way that they put the look of where you generally basically just seen New York City.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a few shots of the rest of the earth.

[SPEAKER_01]: it later in the film.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's mainly the way that they construct a New York City with that fifty-sixty's feel, but kind of, yeah, do it almost a modern take on it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And notice things like little one-person bubble cars that they have.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that reminded me a little bit of, I don't know if you've ever played either the Fallout games or seen the Fallout series.

[SPEAKER_01]: Where they basically, the backstory for that is that there's a completely different approach to electricity.

[SPEAKER_01]: And because of that technology, looks different.

[SPEAKER_01]: Apparently, the key in this earth, because we should mention it's earth eight to eight, [SPEAKER_01]: as opposed to the usual earth six one six.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it is in one of the varied timelines.

[SPEAKER_01]: And apparently the big difference was the world war two never happened and because of that technology sort of evolved without the atomic side of it being more of a thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the other thing that this reminded me of a little bit in terms of seeing setting [SPEAKER_01]: story, Dr.

Manhattan has changed the way the technology has evolved.

[SPEAKER_01]: But also with the way that they put some of the paddles from the comic itself onto the screen, even up to including the cover of the first fantastic full comic, where they're fighting one of Mollman's, I don't even know what to call it, but then Mollman's Kaiju, essentially.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would jolly storm sort of circling around it and the other guys on the floor.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was amazing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just seeing the way that they've put this together visually is an absolute treat.

[SPEAKER_03]: There isn't an interesting question there, which has been in my thoughts since I saw this, which is, you know, you mentioned the setting and the historical background, the very slight change, that doesn't look different.

[SPEAKER_03]: What is it?

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, what if, because we are talking Marvel here, if we are tired, you know, [SPEAKER_03]: The implication is that they basically have to standard living that we have now, but through analog technology through being able to record onto vinyl disk, which nice nod to the Golden Disk on Voyager, there seems to be a steam powered almost device or application for everything you might need, and what if the happy modern tech grows?

[SPEAKER_03]: in that era of, you know, postball optimism and the inscipient sort of piece of love movement and I don't think it won't have all the better roses.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's a native American community for the god to share the benefits of this, for example.

[SPEAKER_03]: But if there are people who have given the world everything it needs is using analog technology.

[SPEAKER_03]: Not just would it be a different world, that would it be a better world if that had happened in the real world.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's interesting that they sort of stuck with that, whereas with Iron Man, as you noted, they did do the original story, but they brought it up to date.

[SPEAKER_01]: So Iron Man is kind of a totally stark and read Richards are broadly similar characters, I'd say.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we're sort of getting to see one of them come up from roots, and one of them displaced into a more digital age.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think there'll be some parallels to be drawn, but we'll have to see when they go with it first, I suppose.

[SPEAKER_03]: Did you notice the two?

[SPEAKER_03]: Because this is, as you say, set in a different multiverse and there's very little appresent tying it to the main MCU.

[SPEAKER_03]: Did you notice the two very subtle nods to Earth six one six?

[SPEAKER_03]: You may not notice them at all because they were so far in the background.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't think I did to be honest, Jollurururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururururur [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly, yes, and I say it does appear in the background of quite a few shots, but it took me quite a bit into the film to notice it, but the other one was that there'd be some debate about we still not even talked about the previous attempts in the Fantastic Four, but the very strange things they've done with the fantastic car in all of them, and there's lots of speculation about are they going to go back to the classic sort of bathroom?

[SPEAKER_03]: top of the design.

[SPEAKER_03]: They have very early on as Peter has been revived and we honest with you given the setting I didn't know going to do that but instead they've gone for sort of stylish flying car.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's very similar to how it starts flying car that doesn't fly in Captain America the first adventure.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, alright, okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, I didn't definitely didn't pick up on that one.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I think that's a very clear power of that as well, especially if I had the readers got it working now, it couldn't.

[SPEAKER_03]: But yes, they have been.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, they were not to all of these in here, but the main ones to pick out are there was the cartoon in the sixties, which is quite good for what it is.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's not worn as well as the Spider-Man cartoon, but the same area, which obviously is the one that spider-man spider-man does, but I've respired the cancums from.

[SPEAKER_03]: that's reasonably good.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's a late seventies one, which we will come back to because it did introduce one particular element.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's the Roger Coleman film from nineteen ninety-four.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's never been hundred percent clear what that was all about.

[SPEAKER_03]: People have speculated it was either a tax loss or to hang on to the right and it never officially came out.

[SPEAKER_03]: Do you know what?

[SPEAKER_03]: It is a film from nineteen ninety four.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's how I would describe it.

[SPEAKER_03]: If you go to expecting that, you're not going to see something brilliant, but you'll see something you might have got out on video when true lies was already out.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then obviously there's the two thousand five, two thousand, seven months where they do Galactus and the Silver Circle for very badly in them.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't think the casting, they were right for the characters, but not right for the script that they were given, which is a very strange way of approaching the fantastic four.

[SPEAKER_03]: and then there's the very much maligned fan to full stick, which I would be generous and say, it doesn't come off.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it's a bad film, I think it's a film that just doesn't work.

[SPEAKER_03]: And really much of the fan to full is dark, gritty, haunted, plagued by their failures in life.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of the opposite of what they should be, and the doctor do, and that was very, very strange.

[SPEAKER_03]: The thing is people are being describing this as the third major reboot of the Fantastic Four.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry, none of those previous films had anything to do with Marvel or the MCU.

[SPEAKER_03]: In fact, I would imagine Marvel probably tried to stop some coming out, so it isn't a reboot, if somebody doing the Fantastic Four on their own terms.

[SPEAKER_03]: And while we've had knots to ruin our Chris Evans as Johnny Storm in Deadpool the Wolverine.

[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely loving it.

[SPEAKER_03]: He was very clearly really enjoying the chance to say that the unpleasant Johnny is step further.

[SPEAKER_03]: He just swears every one and a half words basically.

[SPEAKER_03]: Also, in this we do get the custody Roger Corman, ninety-four film, do make cameoes.

[SPEAKER_03]: They have speaking cameoes which I really liked.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think the reason the others haven't turned up yet is maybe that, you know, we've got a big multi-versal collision coming up, so they're probably saving them.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I think cutting off with a notion of the previous ones is just doing it as if they were starting again.

[SPEAKER_03]: Again, it's what really made it work here.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what you thought about either previous adaptations.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure you like the cartoon.

[SPEAKER_01]: Aside from the cartoon, which are not that well-studied on, I haven't actually seen any of the previous films.

[SPEAKER_01]: They simply reviewed so poorly that I just never made the time to check them out.

[SPEAKER_01]: I did read earlier about the cabbios of the main actors with the Roger Cornfields, and I just think that's a lovely gesture, really, because they never really got their due for that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I believe the film is out there now, isn't it, under certain less strupular streaming sites?

[SPEAKER_03]: It is, and the one thing I will say in its favour is that the fantastic thought are recognised with the fantastic thought, and you have to stand the thing at that point.

[SPEAKER_03]: Superman and Batman aside, just if somebody did the film based on a license property, it would be recognised with a name only.

[SPEAKER_03]: Say if somebody did the film of doom lord of the year you go around there, and he probably would have been a failed rock star.

[SPEAKER_01]: Who became my favorite artist?

[SPEAKER_03]: In that, they are the fantastic thought.

[SPEAKER_03]: As they should be, it's just not the world's best film.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's definitely no offense to them, but I feel like the casting in this one was inspired in some places.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think Petro Pascal, it's not exactly going to be the biggest [SPEAKER_01]: that's everybody's opinion at Pedro Pascal.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think he did the best, was made me forget that he was Pedro Pascal, because I was the bad thing I was worried about, was I'm just going to be seeing this person who has almost a larger than life reputation in real life.

[SPEAKER_01]: Am I going to be able to buy them as read Richards?

[SPEAKER_01]: And the answer was yes, definitely, his vulnerabilities is sort of perceived guilt for the accident.

[SPEAKER_01]: they had, they're always referenced, but they never, it's like you say they're never called Grimdark with all the characters.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of they're still these flashy superheroes, but with that kind of element of doubt that was always shot through his character shining through.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's great performance, and I would also say, I really like Ebben Moss Buckerack.

[SPEAKER_01]: as the thing, because he's trying to act through a CGI effect, essentially.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think he did a very good job of being Ben Grimm, not just the thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: The only thing I've seen the actor in previously is the bear, the show set that Chicago restaurant.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a little bit, he kind of, in that he has a lot of clashes with his cousin.

[SPEAKER_01]: And in a less inflammatory and certainly less sweary way, I think a lot of that came through this sort [SPEAKER_01]: of needleing with Johnny.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that was a really inspiring piece of cast.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, he does have one other interesting credit to his name, which is he was micro in the Punisher, who is a government worker who feeds information to Frank Castle and tangentially appears nation to shield as well and what is interesting there is because it's the multiverse and because well CGI, he could conceive of me because the Punisher is coming back, reappear as micro.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, nobody would notice, nobody would care.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure they would need to have to rub off on the bigger quirk of the multiverse.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's just he complaining to rolls, because he was great as Mike for how, actually.

[SPEAKER_03]: So there's potential there, but yeah, all the casting was great, and it was really interesting to read, because I would say apart from Petro Pascal, who, you know, is famous, but he isn't quite a household name.

[SPEAKER_03]: None of them when they were cast were really, you know, who you would expect to be leading a film this big.

[SPEAKER_03]: And apparently that was because there were some bigger names, very strongly favored, but Kevin Fire gave us so much time to get the fantastic Thor right, that he ruled out anyone who asked for more money than we were offering, because his thinking was, they don't want to be in this for the right reasons.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a good policy in general.

[SPEAKER_01]: They don't have to apply that to Hollywood.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, not many names for Skate, but warm as come out who wasn't in it put entirely the opposite reason, which was much Smith was approached about re-richets and he himself apparently ruled himself out and said, I'm not really suited to that.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a shame, I kind of, hmm, there that you say it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he looks a little bit like he's made out of rubber at the best of times.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, that's a fair play.

[SPEAKER_01]: If he knows he's not right for it, he shouldn't be taking it.

[SPEAKER_03]: But by accounts they all did their homework, as well in particular Vanessa Kirby went and read a load of fantastic four comics.

[SPEAKER_03]: And she was registered by not just the storylines where super comes Malais who's like a darker version than the emissive old woman, but also the ones where she lighted us towards the end of this film just looses it like in the original Stiffle War, where she's not involved until suddenly the threat to her children.

[SPEAKER_03]: At which point she generates like the most malevolent force failed in the world, like screams at everyone to back off.

[SPEAKER_03]: and she very deliberately brought nuances of that into her performance.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think they all do.

[SPEAKER_03]: Really really everyone is really well cast in this, including Paul Walter House or his mole mum.

[SPEAKER_03]: Who, mole mum is a tricky character, because that's a say basically it's background, is he reached the story is, he's more or less told, I'm sorry you have a big nose you have to live on the ground.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it has to come back out in the fantastic voice, say no, no, sorry mate, back down.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's quite, you know, that's the very first proper fantastic force trip.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that's quite dubious.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, these things, however old they are, some of them are a little lacking by today's standards.

[SPEAKER_03]: But obviously Mulman has been reviding more sympathetic, where you pull what a house, or said he tried to make him more like a warm down union leader who cares for his people and for the surface to well as but he puts his people first and has to make sure that they're not being compromised or sideline.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think he captured that really well the way he reacts differently to different characters.

[SPEAKER_03]: I really enjoyed his performance of a character that could have been pretty epic.

[SPEAKER_01]: He did look very warm down.

[SPEAKER_01]: I got that from the sort, but then I'm sure living underground isn't exactly a picnic at the best of times.

[SPEAKER_01]: Interesting, the fact that I pulled Walter Helser is at the time of recording.

[SPEAKER_01]: Progress wrestling is raining and defending pro-tea's champion.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was only aware of him through Cova Kai and I know he's going to be in the next in the naked gun remake that's just coming out now.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I thought there was a few people who had small parts and really made the most of them.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was one of them.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think Margatus was another one.

[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't even clock and that was Margatus until I saw the credits.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's spot orders at talk show house.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, to be fair, he does a piece of color this hair with super market owned brand Marmite.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I wonder whether that's the biggest piece of CGI, the entire thing, because it certainly doesn't look real.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Sarah Niles also I thought was great as leading those to the head of the future foundation.

[SPEAKER_01]: And all of these people only get about three or four lines, but managed to just kind of indelibly print themselves on you.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, they were, they were also in the touch of Leon who gets, I don't need to say that enough, but you get a few really nice scenes with Ben Grimm.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's somebody who was telling me those were a reshoots, kind of near at the time of release.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think they were originally going for Alicia Masters as the things love it dressed, and that changed that in the last minute for some reason.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, don't shoot me, it's just a story chat telling choice.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, that was my assumption there, because obviously when the fantastic four do arrive in the MCU, which again, we're going to come back to, they will need some friends.

[SPEAKER_03]: So there will need Alicia, they'll need Wyatt Wingful, they'll need Willie Lumpkin.

[SPEAKER_03]: And obviously, there are people like Agatha Hartnars, Luke Cage, she whole concern on the round, but they would be if Alicia was stuck in this alternate earth.

[SPEAKER_03]: You can't really use her, but you're going forwards.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now that's a good point.

[SPEAKER_01]: This kind of brings me to something that I saw a bit on my mind since I was watching the film.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I'm capable of divorcing any MCU film now from the wider narrative and as much as I was told like this is a different earth.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is a different, you know, don't worry about the overarching plot.

[SPEAKER_01]: They kind of still want you to, like if you access the internet at any stage, for any reason, anywhere in the world, you'll know that Dr.

Doom is coming to the MCU.

[SPEAKER_01]: Dr.

Doom is a fantastic four villain.

[SPEAKER_01]: We see what we don't see in the main part of the film.

[SPEAKER_01]: We see an obitiously empty chair for the delegate from that area.

[SPEAKER_01]: Admittedly, you'd have to know that from the comics, but I think a lot of us do.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was a bit high pals I'm up next.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, very much so.

[SPEAKER_01]: And also if you've watched Thunderbolt's Asterisk then you already know that there's a fantastic forish rocket going to earth six one six.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think part of I almost let myself down while I was watching this but not really being able to concentrate on what was happening because I wanted to know how it tied into what happened next.

[SPEAKER_03]: That is true, but I think they did a reasonable attempt at a standalone story.

[SPEAKER_03]: One thing that hasn't been mentioned enough is that here's there are no other superheroes in the world presumably because they don't need for them.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's another fantastic thought.

[SPEAKER_03]: I love seeing the unneep of vigilante.

[SPEAKER_03]: So somewhere Jessica Jones is happily well, I don't know if it's happily, but listening to screaming trees.

[SPEAKER_03]: I can see why that would be a bit of an issue because you know, they are going to drop something in it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Obviously eventually it connects as a wider MCU.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, what's going to happen with the apparently the red song you're filming?

[SPEAKER_03]: It's about to come out, which is when they say it's unrelated to Marvel.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's in the same sense the Sony films were where they are normally associated with them.

[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, we start somehow going to tie up, I've just literally just thought when I see that I will be thinking that I'll write the way through how we're just going to connect or [SPEAKER_03]: I do think it's a standalone story.

[SPEAKER_03]: It works.

[SPEAKER_03]: And what's been really annoying?

[SPEAKER_03]: It's I mean there were people really driving it at the wall for even came out.

[SPEAKER_03]: So if you don't want to watch this film, don't go and say it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Nobody's making you.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's not ruining your day that it exists.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it's not complain.

[SPEAKER_03]: I did see somebody on social media laughing at the trailer saying, OMG, it's a thing supposed a lot like it's made out of wheat a bit.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes!

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, he is stealing nothing about Ben Krim.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's exactly what he looks like.

[SPEAKER_01]: We haven't even mentioned the thing's beard, which I thought was a fantastic ass.

[SPEAKER_01]: I still can't see my hair around that.

[SPEAKER_03]: And the fact that he has a special razor as well would have occurred to me that he might be able to have a beard.

[SPEAKER_01]: We also haven't mentioned [SPEAKER_01]: without a doubt my favourite character in the whole film because at the end they make this big, well we haven't talked about the baby either.

[SPEAKER_01]: At the end they make this big play of like oh it will be the fantastic five now.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was always the fantastic five because herbe's there and herbe's great in this.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, yes, the counteract, all of the people were complaining about a film that went so interestingly before it came out.

[SPEAKER_03]: The second they released, the first image from this was that Valentine's Day card they did with the cast on, and it had Herby, and you could probably hear it punching the air from the rest of the multiverse to be honest, because I love Herby.

[SPEAKER_03]: Herby was in the late seventies, fantastic for a cartoon, to be in all kinds of interviews over the years.

[SPEAKER_03]: The real reason, [SPEAKER_03]: was that when they were all those TV shows, all the CBS shows of Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, the Hulk, and Captain America, they had options, the human torch, ended up not making it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, they made it as a part of a different series under a different name with a character who I think was electric maybe, but that didn't go to the series, but they still had the right to the human torch.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that is the reason why they replaced him with her be the robot.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think filmation may have just created him unilaterally.

[SPEAKER_03]: Before the cartoon of the Even Air, to a Marvel Watch previews of it, Marvel's Man is a legendary Marvel writer, said that robot is going in the fantastic form.

[SPEAKER_03]: And while the series is still airing, Kirby appeared as a regular sort of mechanical fact-out film.

[SPEAKER_03]: And they actually put a joke about reading a built-in to take Johnny's place during a meeting about the tying cartoon.

[SPEAKER_03]: And her be very quickly, like Firestar would do, who replaced the human torch for the same reason in another cartoon, The Collier Slater, which even I've talked about in here before, of course.

[SPEAKER_03]: Her be very quickly became very accepted, very loved, hasn't really appeared in others, but I think this is deleted, seen in one of the mid-two thousand fantastic four films where her be is on the shelf in the background or something.

[SPEAKER_03]: but they do him so quickly.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's like a cat actually.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's effective, but hapless at the same time.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's loyal, but a nuisance.

[SPEAKER_01]: They've pitched him somewhere between Helper from Venture Brothers and R-II D-II.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the best compliment I can pay to a character that is essentially a CGI vaguely comedy sidekick.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is it never gets annoying?

[SPEAKER_03]: No, and did you know it was mostly?

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, obviously they added some CGI onto it.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's mostly a puppet on set.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh no, I didn't know that.

[SPEAKER_01]: My mind wouldn't just go straight to that must be CGI these days.

[SPEAKER_03]: Apparently the framework of it was basically a puppet and when it thought about it, what gives that away is that scene where I love this, where Reed pops open the front of her bees head and replaces his tape school eyes with a different tape school for space.

[SPEAKER_01]: Ah, that was brilliant.

[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, because it pays off almost a non-junk.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like all the way through thinking, wow, his face looks like a tape.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it is a tape.

[SPEAKER_03]: But going back to what we're saying about the critical response of this, I mean, the actual audience response has been phenomenal and the box ups takeings have been staggering as well.

[SPEAKER_03]: have been critics trying to say.

[SPEAKER_03]: The usual thing saying I started watching is I didn't know what was going on.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well come on, it's not connected to the may them see you yet, it's a standalone story, not knowing what goes on at the start is what happens with most villains.

[SPEAKER_03]: You will probably go into this having more idea to the fantastic forward than you would your average art house film.

[SPEAKER_03]: I may tell you that and also [SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, it's the sudden fantastic fool you have probably at least heard the name.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's not like the Dunderfield with Jack of Hearts and started it part by through.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's not difficult to get a handle on this and I think they're making fools themselves.

[SPEAKER_03]: They're just locking for a reason to be snobby.

[SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes you just can't even contrive that.

[SPEAKER_01]: There seems to be a bigger and bigger disconnect these days between the critical [SPEAKER_01]: perception for a film and the audience reception of a film.

[SPEAKER_01]: You've had to go look at things like Rotten Tomatoes to see the growing gulf between review and public opinion.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it raises an interesting point.

[SPEAKER_01]: One that we don't have time to go into, frankly, about the effectiveness of criticism in film music, the art in general.

[SPEAKER_01]: These days, when media is more accessible than ever, [SPEAKER_01]: and more and more people are not only getting a chance to come to their own conclusions about things before they've sort of engaged with the criticism, but also to sort of be citizen journalists and citizen critics themselves and spread their own opinions.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a fascinating one to think about, I think.

[SPEAKER_01]: But again, that's for a different podcast.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, there's another response to come on too, which I've got quite along with the way getting to it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Basically, and we will talk about the Richard's children in the second, but this is essentially, fifty percent an adaptation of the original Galactus story that I'm from when he first appeared, not just first appeared in the fantastic fourth, first appeared full stop, which...

Now, if you're gonna say, I don't know what was going on, that was a run of comics that made international headlines.

[SPEAKER_03]: People in America are going crazy waiting to see what happens next.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, three comics as well, is it?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's three comics in total.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you've got time to read that before you go to the film, then God help you.

[SPEAKER_03]: So there's fifty percent that.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's fifty percent.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to go too far.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to spoil the things of people, but a story about, I think, three-year-old Franklin for the seventies is sort of adapted to this as well.

[SPEAKER_03]: It does both of those.

[SPEAKER_03]: It blends them.

[SPEAKER_03]: really successfully, so that you get a different motivation for Galactus, a different reason for them wanting to repel him in a different public response, different way they repel him.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think that really works, it's benefit, it gives so a chance to shine, whereas in previous films she has just been woman who is somehow caught up in things.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's the best way of putting it, whereas, you know, she is arguably the strongest character of the four.

[SPEAKER_03]: Read is actually his kind of relatively ineffectual self in this.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's a smart guy, but he's not a people person in any way whatsoever.

[SPEAKER_03]: The one big difference, which a lot of, let's be able to spot this man that've got very opportunity about it's using the Shullabal silver surfer.

[SPEAKER_03]: Now I think there are two important things to note here.

[SPEAKER_03]: One is that it's not as if Shullabal has never been the silver surfer in the comics, and that's putting it mildly.

[SPEAKER_03]: The other is, nor in rad, it's a bit of a boring character if taken off the page, who spends most of his time crying about Shullabal.

[SPEAKER_03]: So to bring her into a different motivation which is she has tried to forget about the family she had to leave behind to serve Galactus and she's reminded of who she be in the years by her instructions.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean that's another thing I loved was Johnny basically learning how to communicate with her by doing homework.

[SPEAKER_03]: Again, that's, you know, just more than than their powers, which I think, again, this was missed quite a lot previously.

[SPEAKER_03]: But a lot of a certain kind of gentleman who probably wouldn't be going to see this anyway, but very exercise about the fact that they've made the silver serfer into one of them women now.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think, can you not just all shut up?

[SPEAKER_03]: You've had too many moments of this.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's been too much of that nonsense.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it really should stop now because it is perpetrated by people who don't have the fainter's fucking idea what they're talking about.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll come now, Tim.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, people are still recovering from Superman ruining their childhood.

[SPEAKER_01]: Very recently, by being a bit woke and a bit punk apparently.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, Chellebell, usually the classic silver surface love interest, but she has been the silver surface of various occasions, just silver in perhaps my favorite role of Marvel Comics ever, which is Earth X.

So, frankly, if it's ruined your childhood to have a silver surface with tits, your childhood sucked in your stupid baby.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, there's a whole sort of wormhole that you've ever been doing.

[SPEAKER_03]: On the subject there with the Richards children, I think, again, they've not been touched on in previous adaptations.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think having Sue, pregnant with Franklin Jordan, it was a great move because again, that gave her character more depth and brought a different spin on the, you know, a very familiar plot line.

[SPEAKER_03]: There he looked at the same much about Franklin at the moment because I'm where you're giving away what his in-bument with the power cosmic actually entails because I'm aware people might not want that spoiled because it is clearly going to be a huge point going forward.

[SPEAKER_03]: I like that it brought him in.

[SPEAKER_03]: I hope we get a delivery as well who is their daughter who have a million reunion for the area.

[SPEAKER_01]: Suddenly enough I think I've got the comic [SPEAKER_01]: YB, she's probably bought four types at this stage, but there's a whole thing with Dr.

Doom sort of being the midwife, and that I think is why she's cold for Larry, because Dr.

Doom got naming rights somehow.

[SPEAKER_01]: So she's an interesting character, because she gives the rich its family a more sort of definitive link to Dr.

Doom, and certainly when I was reading it, there was some talk about is she got to be essentially his adopted daughter as a [SPEAKER_01]: to a member of the richest family going forward.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, yep, I'd be interested to see her in there.

[SPEAKER_01]: At the same time, there's a lot of peace in play at the moment already, and especially as you've touched upon, Franklin could be.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, bloody anything, frankly, given all the various twists and turns his comics life has taken.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, maybe we're a bit of off-saving that one for when it's a bit less cluttered.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I don't mind spoilering Belerias powers because she doesn't have any.

[SPEAKER_03]: But for anyone who's not familiar with it, she's a bit...

I suppose a bit like Courtney Love's daughter from a Donna's daughter.

[SPEAKER_03]: Here is sort of, I disassociate myself from my legacy.

[SPEAKER_03]: Mum, why are you doing that?

[SPEAKER_01]: I think one of your boards that refused to appear on screen.

[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly, I think it will, that would add an interesting welcome note that, you know, the fantastic Paul were actually later by the public, but not by one of their own family.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think that will really work.

[SPEAKER_03]: One thing we've not mentioned, and I can't believe we haven't, because it's a great guy.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's been repeated and refused to say it's clopper-intime.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm saying that's only in the cartoon.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the band between the human jolly is fantastic when it occurs.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we haven't spoken that much about Johnny Storm either, who usually is the sort of the focus of these things.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it is, but in a more low key way, like I don't remember being on fire very much, which is off for the human torch.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like I say, they don't really.

[SPEAKER_03]: They use their brains more than their abilities, which I really like at all.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, Johnny is still well boom boom hot headed.

[SPEAKER_03]: And obviously still enjoys the company with me, but he's a bit less me too than previous iterations of speed.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that is a very welcome change.

[SPEAKER_03]: because it's not even flirting with the silver surfer that makes that big breakthrough.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's almost like he develops a crush on her.

[SPEAKER_03]: I like that they've given him more nuance than made him less hateable.

[SPEAKER_01]: I did like how Focusti was on whether or not the board was part of her body.

[SPEAKER_01]: That gets referenced four or five times.

[SPEAKER_03]: I love towards the end when he's boring that makeup girl who clearly was interested in because he was the human torch.

[SPEAKER_03]: He starts thinking, yeah, he's going on about this a bit too much.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like I say, I think they did all of them just absolutely perfectly.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I love this.

[SPEAKER_03]: I really enjoy myself.

[SPEAKER_03]: In the way you know it, because if you look at the films of this year, when the thought captain of the round for Brave New World was perfectly good, I really like Thunderbolts, but even as I'm neither them grabbed me the way this did.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's just something about it, and I think like say a lot of it is down to that design and that lock, and that slightly different social strata aesthetic that's in it, something about it is just incredibly compelling, and they have somehow turned around, the fantastic four from being [SPEAKER_03]: It's not quite a laughing stock, but I think even the stock in the comics was damaged by the previous films.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think they were being left behind a little bit, and suddenly, you know, they are the original, unless you count the wartime, kept in the America and that more and so on.

[SPEAKER_03]: They are the original Marvel characters, and they're back where they deserve to be.

[SPEAKER_01]: I agree, it felt like a rehabilitation.

[SPEAKER_01]: In some ways, it felt like a relief that it was good, which may have taken the spit off the ball a little bit for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: With the other two films you referenced, I think the problem with Captain America is that it felt a little bit smaller than some of the other Marvel films.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm just kind of, it's a bit like the always needing to predict what's going to happen next thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think I've been programmed to expect bomb blasted a lot of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But having said that, thunderbolts, which [SPEAKER_01]: Kind of suffered from that little bit as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought that was brilliant, just that characters really got me in that one.

[SPEAKER_01]: Particularly Reg Guardian, who is just tons of fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: The nuance of the sort of flawed characters in that film, I found really compelling.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I would say I would say I'd probably prefer that a little bit as a sort of film watching experience to Fantastic Four, but it can't rival Fantastic Four for the look.

[SPEAKER_01]: The look is just [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, I'd fair play to everybody involved in putting that together visually, because it is just a treat.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, we both win, because who are the first people they go into meet in the earth, six, one, six?

[SPEAKER_03]: It's the Thunderbolts, because in the post for this scene for that, we do see the Excelsiorers as apparently very nicely named.

[SPEAKER_03]: Hurtling out of God knows where to war, to apparently Avengers, well, Thunderbolts tower now.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's how they're coming in, but the post credits scene here for [SPEAKER_03]: First of all, we get so reading some authentically turned the fifties into the sixties, children's story books to Franklin, and then what happens if we couldn't guess?

[SPEAKER_01]: A wild rubric downy junior appears.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was apparently him as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: I believe so, yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you didn't have to be, because you don't bloody see him, let's face it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so we just see the cowl of the mask.

[SPEAKER_03]: Holding the mask outward very prominently so that you know it's him.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's himself, shall we say.

[SPEAKER_01]: Basically, I thought that was what was going to happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like they would just show you a little bit of them and off we go.

[SPEAKER_01]: I did like, by the way, that they were reading the very hungry caterpillar because what is Galactus if not the very hungry caterpillar?

[SPEAKER_03]: And then right at the end, we get a kind of a Malcolm of the opening titles of both the original and best fantastic four cartoons.

[SPEAKER_03]: Complete with her be slapping his hand down on the pile on the hands.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, you are right.

[SPEAKER_03]: That is the fantastic five.

[SPEAKER_03]: and this brilliant, ridiculous, past-each theme song, which is right up there with Akka's role of one.

[SPEAKER_01]: I did, I really liked the little not-to-jack Kirby, just before that plays out as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing too over the top, just a little bit of a quote, a little bit of an explanation as to why it's a two-eight.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I thought that was really classy.

[SPEAKER_03]: and then her beat gets fed up with the opening titles and turns it off.

[SPEAKER_01]: Proving himself once again to be the protagonist of this film.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so don't they want the black and me to ask now?

[SPEAKER_03]: Garret, if you had the ability to consume an entire planet, what would you use it for?

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm partial to a trip to the old hard rock cafe, so maybe I'd just go for a belly-busting set of ribs and burgers.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's sparing the planet I've ever had to.

[SPEAKER_03]: Although, maybe not quite.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if ever Earth has needed to devouring, it's probably now, but, you know, as we've seen, it's very tiring.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think you should get yourself the five guys.

[SPEAKER_03]: Garret, thank you, and Excel's here.

[SPEAKER_01]: Excel's here.

[SPEAKER_03]: If you've enjoyed this, don't forget you can find more additions of its contact sites and plenty more besides, including details about the Golden Age children's TV at Timworthington.org.