Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we try to get to the heart of the issues that matter to you.

Today we're talking all things foreign policy and trying to achieve peace throughout the world.

Roner to have Fred.

Flights, vice chair of the America First Policy Institute, Center for American Security and former chief of Staff at the National Security Council under President Trump, someone who understands President Trump's line of thinking when it comes to foreign policy.

So we're going to discuss that pivotal Trump putin meeting in Alaska.

What does it mean, What are the implications for trying to resolve the Ukraine conflict.

We also talk about the broader strategic dynamics shaping US foreign policy.

Why has President Trump been able to broker so many peace deals, what makes them so different than past presidents.

We're going to dig into someone who knows, understands the man and also understands the foreign policy implications of all of this.

So stay tuned for Fred Flights.

Fred, it's great to have you on this show.

It's been a while since we've caught up, so I appreciate you.

Making the time good to be here.

So looking at this summit in Alaska.

I guess sort of, are you what's your broad takeaway?

It's it's you know, it's been criticized by the media, but obviously that doesn't always mean much because they don't get anything correct.

But what are your takeaways from it?

Well, well, you know, President Trump is just so frustrated with the mainstream media.

He tweeted a little while ago that if Russia had surrendered the whole country to Ukraine, they still claim this was a failure for Trump.

And I think that that's exactly right.

Whatever Trump does, they're against.

And you know, Europe loves to complain and criticize Trump for what he's doing, but there's no alternative.

The only reason is a peace plan or peace process is because of Trump.

Europeans didn't do this before he was elected.

What happened in Alaska was that Trump went to Putin and he determined that he had enough progress to go to the next age.

And we know from history that peacemaking is hard and coming up with agreements to stop wars usually takes painstaking negotiations.

So there were some things agreed to, some weren't agreed to.

Some were sensitive issues that Trump has to talk to the Europeans and Zelensky about and the fact that there's a second stage that Trump's going to meeting was Lensky and the Europeans today, I think is very promising.

The most important thing out of the summit was talked that there may be an agreement of security assurances that Russia may agree to that something that the Europeans in the US might do to prevent Russia from evading again.

If that's true, it could be a change to the whole scenario that might mean a long lasting peace agreement.

Do you think it was a positive meeting?

Trump says it was a positive meeting.

It was a ten out of ten, and I think looking at what happened, it was probably the best we could get out of Putin.

It's worth noting that our relations with Russia was very bad under Biden.

Remember Biden didn't speak to Putin after February twenty twenty two.

He did nothing but demonize him.

Biden once compared Putin du Amas and this is some of the baggage that Trump had overcome to get a peace process started.

So I think it was as positive as possible.

There's a long way to go, but I think if Trump determined that Putin wasn't interested in negotiating good faith to end the war, he would have walked away.

I mean, and he said that, you know, I remember in his interview with Brett Baer, he was saying that, if you know, if he's unhappy at any point, or he feels like Putin's kind of give him the run around, that he's out, he's willing to walk.

And I believe that.

I also just think it's a good thing.

Look, President Trump is indicated or demonstrated even during his first arm he's always willing to talk, He's always willing to negotiate.

And Putin, you know, obviously chose to do this under Biden.

He wouldn't have done it under Trump.

What do you think Putin wants from all this?

Well, first of all, to that point, you know, people were saying this is a big win for Putin because he got a meeting with Trump.

That's just wrong.

American and Russian presidents should be meeting and talking all the time.

The fact that Biden didn't do this made the world less safe.

And as you said, Trump wants to speak to Putin, he wants to speak to i Ron's leaders, to China's leaders.

That's good statesmanship that keeps the world more stable and secure.

So whether there's a meeting, one succeeded or failed, I think Trump accomplished something.

I think Putin is looking for a way out of the war.

He would take as much Ukrainian territory as you can get away with, but he wants to avoid punishing sanctions from the United States.

And I'm hoping he sees Trump as his one opportunity to end Russia's isolation and maybe strike deals.

It would make Russia more prosperous.

And Zelensi probably just wants Russia out of all of its territory.

They want like a complete withdrawal.

Yeah, Zelenski wants that.

He wants native membership, he wants a U membership, and I wish you could get these things, but they're not going to happen, and I think that Zelensky has to focus on what's possible.

I understand this is really hard.

He's going to lose part of his country, but he can't be blaming Trump for this.

There was a time in twenty twenty two, in mid to the fall twenty twenty two that if Biden and European leaders had sent Ukraine the weapons they needed, they could have pushed the Russians back.

They didn't do that.

Now the Russians are dug in and they're advancing.

Ukraine's running out of troops.

Ukraine has to strike the best deal it can to save his country and to stop the killing.

I guess the challenge is, you know, we saw recently in the Oval Office that spat between Zelenski and President Trump and JD.

Vans and then you know, Zelenski is essentially it kicked.

Out of my house, you know, like and you know this is very public spat.

Uh.

I mean, I mean, I think the challenge to me seems to like, can Zelensky look at this in a clear eyed way.

He just seems like he's very emotionally charged in the way he conducts business, which is challenging when you're trying to get someone to reason with someone and to get them to see things because you know, ultimately, as you pointed out, Zelensky is probably gonna have to give up some of Ukraine, but it just doesn't you know, it seems like he sort of behaves a little bit belligerently.

Is that a fair assessment or how much of a challenge.

Do you think Zelensky is going to be and trying to get him on the board with any sort of peace agreement.

I don't think we're going to see the same blow up in the Oval office that we saw last time.

But let's talk about what happened there.

Zelensky was arguing with Trump before the meeting.

During the meeting, he was rolling his eyes, acting very disrespectful for Trump.

But what people don't realize is that Zelensky was told to resist, not just by the Europeans but by Democratic members of Congress.

Zelensky was given bad advice, and I think he paid a price for that.

It's set back peace efforts.

I think he's learned since then not to mess with Trump and not to listen to people who have their own agendas.

I mean, the Democrats just want Trump to fail, and their media was Zelensky all the time.

They're they're they're telling them all kinds of stuff that's not going to end the war.

I think Lynski realizes Trump's the only one who can end this war.

He may not like that, but he has to deal with Trump.

Is it fair to say the Europeans are sort of warming to President Trump?

Or sort of like listening to him, you know, the NATO chief.

I think it was like a month ago, call him daddy, like you like try to like lay on the charm.

Is it fair to say that, you know, Europeans are kind of uh, I guess looking up to him more at.

This point than maybe right when he took office.

I think they're giving in to him.

I don't think they're warring to him.

I don't think they like him.

I think most European leaders don't have a spine.

They're they're very brave when they're on their own and when they speak to the news beating and when they leak.

But when you have a strong American president, none of them know what to do.

And that's why you keep seeing these European leaders coming to the White House trying to brown those and to get on Trump's good side.

You know the kind of leaders we saw World War two, Winston Churchill.

There's no Winston Churchill in Europe right now.

Certainly we don't have one in the UK, or in France or in Germany.

They are liberal globalists.

They're trying to deal with Trump.

They're not sure how to do that, but frankly they're afraid of it.

I've got to take a quick commercial break.

More Fred on the other side, Well, it's pretty remarkable the amount of peace agreements and ceasefires that President Trump has been able to negotiate with.

I think Cambodio.

Cambodia submitted a Nobel Peace Prize for President Trump with the with Cambodia and Thailand, and then you've got Rwanda and Congo, you know, I mean the list goes on.

And then during the first administry you had the Abraham Accords.

Why do you think he's able to reach these peace deals more broadly, I guess we'll call them when other presidents were unable to do so.

A strong American president, a decisive one, is essential not just for American security but for global security.

And I also think success breeds success, and these nations are turning to Trump to resolve these crisis.

You know that Cambodia Thailand one is interesting because you know, in an earlier era they may have went to China to resolve that, but they didn't.

They went to Trump.

I think that's very interesting.

And this Azerbarijehan our media dispute.

This is something that before the war Ukraine Russia would adjudicated, but in this instance, Trump adjudicated a peace settlement in Putin's backyard.

I think the idea that we have a decisive and strong American president is good for global order.

It's leading states to come to him to make deals, and it's always good for our country too.

What's interesting too if you just kind of like watching his moves as as you have been doing, of just.

Sort of setting up American strength.

Like going to the Middle East and striking those deals and talking about how like the future of the Middle East is commerce not chaos.

And and then even with this EU deal, the seven hundred and fifty billion dollars in energy purchased from the United States, trying to get Europe to turn to us and to be dependent on our oil as opposed to Russia.

But just sort of like these different moves to just try to like weaken China, to weaken Russia, and to put America back as you know, the world's leading superpower kind of walk us down some of the or walk us through some of those steps that you have seen in his efforts to try to you know, isolate some of our enemies like China and Russia and Oran and to strengthen the United States positioning power.

I would point to this critical that Trump made in Saudi Arabia that you were referring to, in which he said he wants peace through strength and commerce.

Make it deal with us and we'll all be rich.

We're all good rich.

But he also said he does not want America to have permanent enemies.

He does not want to engage in nation building or meddling in other systems.

That will respect other systems that we disagree with, that we will not try to foice our system our values on other societies.

This is huge.

It is a real repudiation of John Bolton and George W.

Bush and tons of Democratic presidents who thought we should be deploying you as troops to promote democratization and regime change.

Trump moved away from that, and that means he may be able to make deals with nations who before would not even meet with us.

That's why I think we could make a deal with Iron, we may be able to deal with China.

That's why other nations I think are saying, we think Trump's going to be a fair inner.

Let's see if he can resolve our dispute.

Do you think the toughest nut for him to crack is probably with Russia and Ukraine.

I do because this conflict is in such a it has deteriorated so badly, and it was made so much worse by the incompetent Biden administration and Europeans strategy.

Remember, Biden's strategy for Ukraine was to arm Ukraine for as long as it takes.

He had no plan to end the war.

He never called for talks to end it, he never called for a ceasefire.

There was basically no strategy.

We're just going to dump weapons on Ukraine for the rest of time, which, as you and I know, the Republican of Congress, the House at least, was not going to approve this much longer.

So this was a strategy that was not going to work.

But Biden didn't try anything else, and neither did the Europeans that caused this dispute to get worse and worse and worse.

So look, Trump has sold his whole national security team on the field working on this.

And you know, Frankly Putin disrespected Trump by not dealing with him earlier in good faith, by ignoring these efforts by his staff.

That's why Trump proposed these very tough sanctions to send weapons to Ukraine through NATO.

That I think that's how we got to the Alaska summit.

But it is a difficult not to crack.

And we've seen his posture with Putin, you know, tough enough.

I mean, he's always been tough on him, like even if you look at the first administration, I mean, he's never been afraid to you know, hold Putin's feet to the fire and to stand up to him.

But it does seem like the posture has changed a little bit where you know, before he was kind of like maybe a little bit more open to stuff, and then now he's kind of brought the hammer down a little bit, it would seem do.

You agree with that?

And then also why do you think that is what's behind that?

Well, previously Trump tried to deal with Putin cordially as a fellow head of state, and that's what he was trying to work on through his diplomats, especially with cough.

But when and then there were a lot of phone calls between Putin and Trump, but Putin basically was pushing pushing Trump down the road.

I forget the term the Trump used and accelerating the war, despite Trump's Trump's efforts to end it.

So Trump surprised everyone by changing tactics when he started criticizing Putin, announced that he would send weapons to Ukraine through NATO and announce he would put these tough energy sanctions in place.

No one would have predicted that a few months ago.

Everyone thought that Trump was only going to engage in diplomacy with Putin, he wasn't going to start these efforts to punish Russia.

But I think that, Look, this is the mark of a good leader.

When your policies aren't working, you have to change those policies.

You have to be flexible.

And I think Trump showed that with Putin, and frankly he showed it with Iran when he surprised everyone when he bombed these Iranian nuclear sites, something that I don't think anyone thought Trump would ever do.

Well, that's like, I mean, how how much do you think he because you've worked for President Trump, you were a former National Security Accouncil Chief of staff under him, how much of his decisions like he just seems like he has really incredible instincts when it.

Comes to all of this stuff.

How much of.

These decisions is like listening to the people around him, like sort of giving advice versus him just saying you know what, No, it's time to bomb around, like we need to send this message.

This is what's going to get us closer to peace than you know, sanctions or any sort of other kind of diplomacy.

Lisa, he listens and talks to all kinds of people.

I'm sure he listens to you.

I'm sure he watches you very very close to when you're on TV couple.

I mean, he watches Fox, so I know he's I'm I'm joking listening to you, and and and people don't realize he's also a voracious reader, and he reads mature from lots of people.

He reads some of the stuff that I write, and he uses his material to make up his mind.

There's certain advisors who he trusts more than others that gives some key advice.

And I also know that when he gets advice and recommendations, he disagrees with it.

They'll say to people, I think you're wrong, and I'm not going to go that way.

I mean, I think he's brilliant.

But even like you know, for instance, you were talking about the Saudi Arabia speech for the future of the Middle East, is commerce not chaos or even with the minerals deal in Ukraine, like he ties foreign policy to economic deals.

And you know, because you could kind of see his line of thinking with Zelenski feeling like he wasn't getting security guarantees.

But from President Trump's perspective, it's like US being involved in business in Ukraine and mineral mining, like that is a security guarantee.

Yeah, that's what the Trump administration has been arguing.

But I think this is even more important for Putin.

I don't think Putin's just going to make compromises to end the war without some type of incentive.

But the idea that Russia could become more prosperous with deals through the US and there may be new Russia America partnerships to deal with global problems to make Russia great power again.

I think that really appeals to Putin.

And you know, the optics of Putin riding in the limo, which Trump calls the beast in Alaska.

You know, the media laughed at that, but that was an important symbol of how Trump is trying to bring Putin back as someone who's at least friendly to the US right now.

Frankly, Russia is an enemy and this really is a dangerous situation.

Russia has the largest nuclear arsenal on earth.

That's a bigger threat to us than Ukraine.

Ever, will be got to take a quick commercial break.

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What also just seems like President Trump sees things more clear eyed than you know, past presidents and also just has like, I mean, he's really great political instincts in terms of obviously you know, the Ronald's thing or the you know, getting dressed up for a trash truck and Wisconsin.

You know, like he just but he's great.

Political instincts are great, you know, foreign policy instincts as well.

It would seem like I remember during the first administration, the summit with North Korea, and there was like this video I don't know if you remember this, the video that he showed Kim Joe Noon, and it was like, you know what, it was like, you have two paths, right Like It's like you could peace and prosperity, and it's like everyone like loving life and making money and you know, and then the next is like bombs and like we're going to crush you, you know, and it's like it's just but I just like he's smart and sort of knowing understanding, and I don't know if it's all just the years of business, right, but he just seems to be able to understand different world leaders and like what it takes to move the needle with each one, and is that what do you think about that?

I think that's right.

And he doesn't care about the conventional wisdom on how to do things as the usual way of doing things.

Basically all the foreign policy experts thought me and Kim Jong was in a mistake rewarding the North Korean dictated with the presidential summit, but that meeting stopped North Korean missile tests for eighteen months.

They didn't test any long range missiles until after the disastrous US withdrawal from Afghanistan.

There hasn't been a nuclear test September twenty seventeen, and I think that's because of Trump.

I think the North Koreans thought about it during the by and years.

I think they came close, but I think that suspension in those tests, which is crucial to slowing North Korea's nuclear program.

They have to test to prove that their weapons work was important.

So I mean, this is a this is a businessman who looks at all the options, doesn't let people talk them out of things that haven't been tried before, and is willing to try new things when what we've done in the past didn't work.

No, I thought that was brilliant.

You're right, because I remember after the summit.

Like it seemed like, you know, because there was all the you know, rocketman and sort of like this heightened escalation between the two countries, and then after that kind of seems like we stopped hearing about you know, North Korea, and you know, stopped kind of hearing the threads.

So before we go, what do you think what is achievable?

I guess in trying to bring either ceasefire or some sort of peace agreement or like whatever it's called, whatever it looks like, what do you think is actually achievable between that the two leaders of you know, Putin of Russia and Ukraine can go back home and sell it to their people that Trump's going to be happy with.

Like, what is actually achievable here?

Well, there's a lot of unknown despite all these leaks, and I think, as I said, earlier.

You may go into negotiations with one opening position that may not be where you end up.

So whatever is being leaked at bet where Putin is, we really don't know where he is, where he'll end up.

But I suspect it may come down to Ukraine agreeing to some type of a land swamp in exchange for a security gam tea arrangement with the Europeans.

Getting Russia to agree to that would be a huge breakthrough, which no one talked about before Alaska.

That's actually on the table.

Uh.

We could have the makings of a pretty substantial agreement to end this war.

But I whether we're going to get putin air, whether he'll really agree to that, I think that's going to be hard, but it's it's the it's those are the kind of proposals that I think could lead to an agreement both sides could live.

With bred flates.

I'm not feeling so great, so I'm a little out of it, But thank god, you're not You're you're you're feel gray in your sharp Thanks for carrying the conversation today.

I really appreciate you making the time and interesting stuff, and you know, well, hopefully something's reached because it's just it's it's better for for us, it's better for them, and it's just it's better for you know, global peace and security.

So and if anyone's going to do it, it's it's President Trump.

So appreciate you making the time my friend.

Good feel better.

Thanks, take care those Fred Flit's Feie share of the America First Policy Institute Center for American Security.

We appreciate him for coming on the show.

Appreciate you guys at home for listening every Tuesday and Thursday.

You can listen throughout the week.

Also want to thank John Cassio, my producer, for putting the show together.

Until next time.