This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests, and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station, it's affiliates or sponsors.

This is True Crime Tonight.

Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio.

We're talking true crime all the time.

It's Tuesday, December two, and yes, we have a stacked night of headlines, breaking news.

You know, day two of testimony and the Brian Walsh murder trial.

Remember, he's accused of murdering his wife.

He says he didn't In fact, he only chopped her up allegedly.

There's a lot of information coming in digitally right now, so body's been following this very very closely.

This case is going to be happening all week, and we want to make sure that we are knee deep in this one because it's definitely one to watch.

Also, Luigiu Mangiona is back in court today as new bodycam footage is shared in the courtroom.

Luigi and the officer who arrested him actually were face to face today in the courtroom.

So so much on that to discuss.

Plus the mother and stepfather of Rebecca Park, which we talked about last night.

She was the twenty two year old pregnant woman who was found deceased.

The status of her baby is unknown.

The mother and the stepfather have been brought into custody and charges have been made and they are not good in fact, in fact, they are grizzly.

And also some new developments around the Anna Kepner case, the eighteen year old who was found dead while on a cruise.

That story discontinues and we've been following it very very closely, and it does seem as though there is no question homicide, homicide, homicide.

And also a quick update on the Slenderman case.

Morgan Geyser is back before a judge, so we must now decide, or at least they will, should she be put back into treatment or should she face actual jail time.

So before we go any further, I just want to say hello to Courtney Armstrong and body move in.

Hello, Hello, Hello ladies, happy to see we're off to a big one.

I'm Stephanie Leidecker.

And if you want to jump in and join the convo eight eight eight three one crime, of course, you can join us live or you can always leave us a talkback.

Just download the iHeartRadio app in the top right hand corner.

There's this small little icon with a little microphone on it.

All you do is push that and talk into it in boom.

You are on the show and I have to talk to you guys at some point tonight about the Diddy doc Sean Cole, So you started reckoning listen.

I tried to watch it last night at midnight, as promised, and I don't know what the like what the clock is at Netflix, but it doesn't really drop at midnight.

So I watched it a little bit today in the morning and was like, oh, no, I really have to keep watching it.

It's very good.

It's really well done, I think.

And then I've been watching it throughout the workday and every time the phone would ring and I would have to stop it, I'd be annoyed and put it on pause.

And I'm dying to get back to it after the show tonight.

It's a really thorough look through his life and right now we're in the Tupac section, or at least that's my life, and it's really well laid out.

And yeah, there's like some interesting footage that I think Courtney you must have.

Mentioned last night that he did.

He must have hired a camera crew to be shooting him or a filmmaker to be shooting him in the days leading to his arrest, like six days prior, and then somehow after he was brought into custody, somehow fifty cent got that footage.

So interested to hear how that unfolds.

It sounded from yesterday that Diddy's camp was not feeling it.

So Luigi speaking of camps and things that are not being felled.

Let's go to a talk back right now.

High ladies.

It is producer Ava, and I want to tell you a little voicemail telling a story about something that happened to me yesterday.

I live in New York City and this is going to be the jury pool for Luigimi Manjioni's trial, like New York citizens.

And I was out at a diner last night, just like getting dinner with a friend, and every single television indus diner was playing news about his hearings, going on about the evidentiary hearings and whether or not certain evidence such as the three D printed gun, the manifesto are going to be able to be included in the trial.

And what I was thinking to myself is everyone knows that he had these things like the gun and the manifesto in the notebook, because news stations are playing it twenty four to seven, and if you're like a citizen like me of New York just going out and about your life, you're going to see it anyway.

And so I'm just wondering, like, how is it possible that they are going to find a jury that, regardless of whether or not this evidence is going to be admitted to the trial, that doesn't already know this information anyway.

I was just giving us some thought, and I would love to know what you guys think about it.

Great show.

Choose our daytime producer, obviously, so it's the night shift right now.

So that's why I guess the voicemail Well, great question though, those are.

Really good questions.

And let's let's live in a world where the judge says these things can't be admitted, right And to Ava's question, will people already know?

I mean, it's it's in all these diners.

Well the part of uh oh my, I think I'm getting those weird sounds again.

Do you have a mouse in you you have a little mouse in your microphone?

I think it's okay now, as part of bourgeois.

They'll ask the jury, can you can you listen to evidence only as presented and not you know, taken evidence that you've heard outside of the trial, And people that say yes will be admitted or you know, say no, they'll say okay, bye, So they'll ask the jury to you know, take a gander at that.

So basically, can you not focus on that evidence.

And right only focus on things that are being presented in trial?

And somebody might say, oh, I've just I've seen a lot of coverage.

I don't I don't think I can true, you know, Or they'll be like, oh, yeah, I'd barely pay attention.

Or then eventually can they say, oh, we have to move to the trial to a different place because we can't get a fair jury pool here in New York City as a result.

Right, I wonder, I mean it'll probably I bet the defense might try and put that up.

But do you want to get into what has been happening.

Dying to talk to you about it?

Dying?

Yeah.

So again, this is the pre trial evidentiary hearing, so there is no jury yet, not even there.

It's just deciding what evidence can be put in or not.

So today was the second day, and it's for the upcoming trial of twenty seven year old Luigi Mangione.

I say Mangione, it was his MANGIONI I say it both ways way through the show.

So Mangione is accused of the murder of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

This happened almost exactly one year ago, on December fourth of twenty twenty four, and it was both caught on camera and happened in a regular work morning in Manhattan.

The defense team of accused killer of Mangione is seeking to suppress statements and physical evidence, occluding as producer ever mentioned, the alleged murder weapon, the three D printed gun and a manifesto, and the defense is arguing that they were obtained through unconstitutional police conduct.

So that would be gigantic if the drools that way.

So today on the stage and the officer who responded to the McDonald's where Mangione was found after a five day manhunt, he testified that he recognized the accused killer Mangione the moment he entered this McDonald's, and on the Stanti stated, I knew it was him.

Immediately, what but he didn't know prior, like, he didn't even put his sirens on when he was pulling up to the McDonald's.

He thought it was probably just a fake sighting.

Yeah, that's exactly right, and he testified your exactly right stuff.

And he testified about that, saying when they got the call that he Officer Deweiler sarcastically said, I didn't think it was going to be the person they thought it was, And he said that his supervisor promised him a hogie a big sandwich if he found Luigi Mangione.

So that's how much he didn't consider this a credible threat until he walked into this McDonald's.

On the stand, the responding officer, he testified that he had seen the suspect Lujimangion's face many many times on television and that he knew immediately walking in.

There was also body camera footage that was played in court and the officer you hear him asking what's your name?

And I had forgotten this, So the accused Mangione responded.

Mark, Mark, I think New Jersey idea.

I think so, Yeah, it was the name of what the prosecutors say was indeed a fake idea on his person.

And then the responding officer, this is all you know, laid out through testimony and bodycam, told Mangione that someone called said you were suspicious, thought you looked like someone and then he commented on Mangione's demeanor and said, you seem a little nervous.

Why are you nervous?

So ps Notice I haven't mentioned his miranda right rights yet, right, because thus far they.

Were not well.

He wasn't arrested at that point, right, Yeah, erect he's walking into a scene.

You don't just arrest somebody without asking a few questions and making sure that the other patrons and McDonald's are are not going to be threatened, like this guy could have just either been a fraud or really dangerous.

Absolutely.

And the responding officer, in his testimony, he said that he conducted a frisk because this officer believed that the accused man Jone, could be armed, and he said, quote, I knew up in New York they hadn't found the firearm because indeed the it hadn't been found at the scene of the murder.

So why wouldn't you assume that there could be a firearm active shooter?

Yeah, And Mangione kind of oddly, I guess what else would you do?

But what he did was he told officers that he was homeless and simply continued eating his breakfast while his identity was checked.

And then finally the accused Mangeone, admitted the truth.

So that was just the idea I had in my wallet.

And then at nine forty eight, which was nineteen minutes after the first contact, Mangeone was read his miranda rights.

So just for the technicality, because we talked about this a bit last night, and by the way, by a bit, I mean a lot.

Again, this is not you know, it doesn't appear that the defense team is saying he didn't do it or you have the wrong guy.

They're getting him on a technicality for that nineteen minutes where the miranda rights had not been read.

But again, this is a police officer from a small town, which you know, they're rolling in by themselves, by the way, to get a hogie in exchange for potentially bringing down a suspect that's being sought after worldwide, who could be extremely dangerous, like they had to assess, I mean, and it's very brave.

I felt like this officer handled it very bravely.

Despite this nineteen minutes.

But if those nineteen minutes are so critical, weren't there other scenarios that Luigi, for example, used that same fake ID at the hostel in the days leading up, there were other times where that manifesto, that maybe that manifesto was discussed with Luigi and somebody in the prison system.

I believe, like, does that really wash that all away just because he wasn't nineteen minutes?

Well, it doesn't wash it away, but it does call into question if what was found in the backpack, which the defense is saying was on constitutional search, should be allowed admitted into trial.

We'd actually love to hear what you think about this.

Give us a call through on crime or hit us on the talkbacks.

You know, do you think these twenty minutes are as pivotal as the defense is saying?

Well, and I wonder too if it's something to do with the state the state's laws too, because, like you know, this is a crime committed in New York, and he was arrested in Pennsylvania.

Correct, and the Pennsylvania State Police have a different set of circumstances, and by their account, it was very lawful, and I would have to assume this gun was a three D gun.

Remember he had all those fancy, the fancy bullet casings that were very intentional.

And this ghost gun.

Great question for Joseph on forensics because can't you just tell if this was the gun that actually committed the crime?

Well, that is that is interesting.

I did a whole thing about because I, you know, i'd meant the three D printing.

I know you are, Yeah, And I was always wondering about the ballistics that a three D printed gun would leave on a bullet, you know, a shellcasing exactly because it doesn't it's not made of steel, but the barrel, the barrel itself is steel, so it's not fully three Y printed.

Its three D printed parts.

So they buy like aftermarket barrels and put these things together so there would be legitimate casings.

Yeah, why do I not understand three D printing at all?

The idea of making a gun with a three D printer is where my brain collapses.

I've seen it.

I've seen like images of it, et cetera.

But again, it's so intentional.

And even if this nineteen minutes, for example, is wiped off the record and the next juror or jury rather won't see this information, they would still see the ballistics and I don't know that we could just remove the gun altogether if.

The ballistics match.

Well, if you if you can't submit something into evidence, you can't submit something into evidence.

This is like protocol ridiculousness.

It is, but I mean it's a slippery slope if it's ignored.

Though it is, Well, it happened in Pennsylvania, and lucky for us, we have a Pennsylvania attorney joint that's right.

Oh my goodness, Yes, I'm so dumb.

I totally forgot he's But.

Yeah, we're going to dig it in because I think that'll be a perfect time to ask.

Absolutely, because the what the prosecutors say is that the arrest in searches were conducted lawfully, and they cited that al Tuna police procedures permit searches of a person's clothing and bags during an arrest.

Well, there you go, there is I means.

This feels like such a stretch to me.

I can't even tell you.

And even seeing Luigi in court kind of, you know, looking the other way when footage was being shown, I can't imagine what's going through his head.

Well, stick around because when We're back.

We have the digital trail in the Brian Walsh murder trial, the latest in the slender Man case.

That more true crime tonight.

Welcome back to True Crime to on iHeartRadio.

We're talking true crime all the time.

I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with my two favorite ladies, Courtney Armstrong and Body move in.

Buddy has our little hood up which is adorable, adorable.

And then of course we have Taha and Sam.

And Ada are in the control room.

And yeah, it's cold outside everybody, so hopefully you're all cozy and cuddled up in front of the fireplace listening to us.

If you want to join the convo eight at eighth three one crime.

So this Brian Walsh, the accused wife killer.

We covered this last night.

It's an ongoing trial real time right now.

We'll be following it daily.

This guy is crazy making and I cannot wait to dig in.

Boddy, do you want to give us a little bit of the backstory from today?

Let's see how it goes.

So today was the second day, right, yesterday was day one.

Today was the second day in the murder trial of accused Massachusetts wife killer Brian Walsh.

Testimony centered on Trooper Grano's forensic review of the accused devices, including all these searches that he did about body disposal.

I mean, these searches are horrendous, while the defense worked to challenge the meaning, source, and context of those searches through pointed cross examination.

Again for those who aren't familiar, accused killer Brian Walsh is standing trial for murdering and dismembering his wife, victim Anna Walsh, who disappeared I'm using air quotes right now, who disappeared on New Year's Day twenty twenty three.

So he's plug guilty to dismembering the body, right, But he is saying, Oh, she died in bed and I panicked.

I didn't know what to do because you know, I've got these little kids and I just I didn't know what to do.

So that's what it is.

To cut her up into peace.

Right.

Yes, she spread her body parts throughout the lad land and going to various dumpsters and different locations.

Keep in mind, she has not been able to be late to rest and she has not been found.

So just to add some context to the grizzliness of what he's done, and some of the searches are originally into.

Some of them.

I picked out some of them because listen, there were so many that it would take the whole show to read them all.

Okay, So I just, like Cherry, picked a couple that I thought were like interesting.

But we'll get to that in just a minute.

There's a couple of things I want to talk about first.

So the first witness was police Sergeant Harrison Schmidt, and he was back on the stand from yesterday.

The prosecutors played audio from the accused, Brian Walsh's interview with the police that took place in the family's dining room while victim Anna Walsh, was quote unquote missing right because it's all the police, my wife is missing because her job was like where is she?

So he had to call the cops, right well, So they played the audio from that interview, and then later Massachusetts State Police Trooper Nicholas Garano took the stand and he testified about all these searches, this like violent search history.

In the audio interview played for the jurors, police ask him, they accused, where he thinks his missing wife is, and he says a lot of people said maybe she went to a spa, you know, maybe she was she was under a lot of pressure a spa.

Yeah right, that doesn't really track with her my wife though she loved her jobed and loved her family.

Like, it was just a really strange what a piece of garbage excuse.

Yeah, so it's just a piece of trash.

Listen.

He has not been found guilty of murder, so innocent until but he has pled and admitted that he chopped his wife up.

And he's like, eh, maybe she's gotten a massage.

Yeah, and that was his Yeah, everybody said, you know, this is which just people are The word on the street could be that she's getting a massage and her nails done at a smile, give me a break, and not to mention the night.

The call, the call to authorities, which I'm always obsessed with those nine to one one calls when we know now that they're just methful lies, is also really difficult to hear.

So yeah, so this is this is also interesting.

So in an interview the next day, so she she goes missing, she's gone for a couple of days, work realizes she's missing, calls, you know.

Brian's like, so he had a call the next day.

Uh, the police asked him about the searches that they found on his son's iPad, right, And his response was, Oh, I don't know anything about that, and it's giving the impression.

This is what it's giving.

He's like kind of passing it off, like the son did it.

The kids will be kids, boys, boys, Yeah.

Who can keep a control of your kid's devices?

Who knows what they searched for?

And some of these some of these searches include things like how to dispose of a dead body on his little kids?

And he's like, was a me?

Well he was.

He was arrested like the next day.

So he said he didn't know anything about those searches and he was arrested soon after.

During cross examination, police Sergeant Harrison Schmidt acknowledged that the searches were not actually conducted on the son's iPad, but were synced to the iPad from another device, like the cloud did it?

Okay, imagine the kid.

It doesn't matter.

But it doesn't matter when he asked, when when the cops asked, what about these searches on your son's iPad?

You know, Brian Walsh still cut through his kid under the bus.

Yeah, he's a liar, liar matter, so let me read some of the searches that I thought were interesting.

You guys, can we can talk about them?

Okay?

I am a user on my wife's credit card and she is missing.

Can I still use the card?

Great question, Brian, glad you have your priorities together to go buy.

Some your chainsaws and something to hack her up with.

Have?

Yeah?

And this one is interesting because I feel like this is an omission.

Best ways to dispose of body parts after murder?

After what?

Yeah?

After murder?

Right?

How long for someone to be missing to inherit?

She had like a one million dollar life insurance policy.

This is the interesting thing.

If she died naturally, let's just say live let's live in a fantasy island where Anna Walsh died in her sleep.

Okay, God rest her soul.

If if he wanted this money, why wouldn't he just call the cop she died naturally?

Yeah, you know what I mean.

Of course, that's what a normal innocent person would do.

You would call nine one one, You would ask for an ambulance, and you would also just hope that maybe her life could be saved, or that there was something, you know, what happened.

You know, these things do happen and it's very tragic.

Sure, sure, or a minimum she could be put to rest properly, like.

Correct, well and the mother children.

Do you guys remember from last night this came out and yesterday's testimony that the defense are suggesting that Anna Walsh died of.

Do you remember the name of it?

It was like unexpected death.

Oh, it was like SIDS, but like for adults.

It was a unexpected death an adult unexpected life shortening or something.

Yeah, you know a forensic expert would have to look up.

Not something that you can just look at someone laying there and know immediately.

Is the case, but exactly right, right, Like why wouldn't you assume she had a heart attack?

Right?

Or a stroke or an animals and many of the other things that can happen to a young woman.

She was young.

She was thirty nine years old.

Another thing he he searched for was is six ways to dispose of a body?

Murder, murder, murder.

It sounds like it sounds like a team casted Netflix right to pretend strange?

How to saw a body, How to dismember a body?

Hack saw the best tool to dismember a body?

Can you be charged with murder without a body.

So these are like admissions to me.

These are like big time admissions to me.

And I don't know.

I don't know how they're going to get bat I don't know how they're gonna combat that.

And by the way, if you have anything to say and you want to weigh and give us a call eight and eight thirty one Crime or hit us on the talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app, because I would love to know what you guys thought of these searches.

I really wouldn't.

You can go find them anywhere online.

One of the interesting things that I that I that we found that he searched for was Patrick Kerney.

And if you don't know who he is, he was called the trash Bag Killer and the Freeway Killer.

He's an American serial killer who sexually assaulted and murdered a minimum of twenty eight young men and boys in southern California between nineteen sixty two and nineteen seventy seven.

He is often engaged in necrophilia with his victims' bodies before dismembering them, and he frequently wrapped his victims severed limbs and trash bags and scattered them in various locations mainly along state highways.

Now, by the way, searching for that, well, I think we know why he were searching for that, because he wanted to have the how to blueprint.

By the way, that's a very specific serial killer that's not really commonly known.

We know him, you know, because we follow this stuff so much, but that's not you know, the Bundy of the world, right.

Right, So so very.

Specific, which also makes me confuse, like is this something that was very premeditated, because some of this stuff is just like, first of all, it's so dumb, why is he searching for everything under the sun.

Of course, your digital footprint is going to be found out.

But remember this guy's a fraud and a liar to begin with.

He was already on charges and looking at jail time for pretending to have fine art that was actually fake.

He had some weird stuff like does the diswasher clean blood?

Is it possible that a knife which had blood on it remains contaminated with HIV after it's been washed.

It's it's like weird stuff that he's looking for, Like, oh, I didn't.

Hear much of these, like he I know a lot of these he looked in advance before her death.

But I'd be curious, like, oh, no, these are after, these are after or all of these are after?

Well, yeah, there were a few that happened on like the twenty seventh of December, and it was like the twenty seventh of December, she again, she went missing on New Year's Day.

And I'm using missing in air quotes because he killed her.

I don't care.

I know he's accused.

He's accused of killing her.

So December twenty seventh, he searched for what's the best state to divorce for a me uh huh?

And then at four fifty five am it's the first search I know of on January first, how long before a body starts to smell?

Period?

And just as it.

Reminds her, this is a young mom who has three young children, you know, all under the age I believe of ten years old.

You know, they're still very young.

And imagine what that Christmas was like just days prior.

What were the festivities, What was the air in the room like?

Were they opening presents and putting on the you know, forward facing look of a happy family.

Did she sense in pending doom?

We know that she was concerned that her husband might be doing some serious hard time for the fraudulent art dealings he was doing, right.

So.

What was going on that did she sense this coming?

It's heart wrenching.

It is heart wrenching, and it's it's so funny that you mentioned it, because at the moment you said that, I was just saying January first, like there's not even batteries in all of the Christmas toys yet.

Yeah, exactly, you know what I mean, Like that's there's not and yeah.

Everyone's off, the kids are off of the school.

Yeah, you know, everyone's home.

The kids were at the time of her disappearance aged two, four and six, so tiny little nuggets and just the whole thing is horrific.

But I brought this up yesterday and I was kind of wrapping my head around it when I know he's looking at towards the dismemberable charges versus first degree murder, so I had to look up, like I'm curious, like what is the time frame difference in Massachusetts for example, So first degree murder in Massachusetts carries a mandatory sentence of life in prison without parole, but on the side, improper disposal or dismemberment canuck go up to maybe five years in prison, and so you can see why they're clearly going in that direction.

But five years for something.

Can you imagine if this man again, if you haven't looked at a photo, we never say this, like, we never look at a photo when it say this guy.

But in this particular case, this photo makes me crazy whenever I look at him.

He looks like that guy who's just like that.

Con Yeah, that he is out for blood just by virtue of the fact that he's not only done what he has done.

Do you know how difficult it is to dismember a body?

Though he's saying that part, It is off the charts difficult and scary and sad and the kind of thing you do not come back from and it is not normal.

So this poor woman, Anna was married to this monster for a very long time, right, and you know, little did she know that somebody imagine, like the person that you're with is capable of that.

It's really diabolical.

And her backstory is kind of you know, you know, telling too.

I mean, she she came to the United States, she had a dual citizenship.

Her family is you know, not immediately around her.

You know, they're not going to get to lay her to rest, and you know, she she got her degree, and she was, you know, living a full life and working in hospitality and somehow gets wrapped up with this clown.

What a sad ending.

I know it's it's really sad, but I listen, I really believe that he's going to get convicted.

I think, I really, I think the jury is sitting there going what But I still want to know if they're going to hear that he pled guilty to dismembering her and whatnot and dispersing her remains.

I haven't heard anything yet.

Oh, whether the jury will hear that information?

Yeah, oh, I thought that was because he admitted to that.

I thought, sure, right, But but what I don't know is if that they're going to hear that he pled guilty to those things, because right now it's not charging.

He's not being charged with that because he already play guilty to it.

So stay tuned for that.

I really want to know.

Right now, to Taha's point, because yesterday, I think, remembering the same thing, it was poor Brian Walsh went to find his wife unresponsive.

He shook her.

She was so unresponsive that she then fell onto your floor.

That's true.

And then in a panic this port true God.

So to protect kids.

No, you're talking the table.

Yeah, I mean I can't believe I forgot that, Like I just said it like ten seconds ago.

But take portant for that.

So but listen, like there is these huge trials happening between Luigi's trial now accused killer wife trial Brian Walsh, and also these new developments in this terrible case surrounding the pregnant woman age twenty two, whose body was found several days ago.

There's still this burning question as to what happened to her baby.

And yesterday we were talking about it.

It seemed impossible to imagine that her mother was involved or her stepfather was involved.

Not her sister.

She couldn't possibly be involved, definitely, not the baby daddy.

Well, how things have changed.

Yeah, So there was the arraignment today of Courtney and Brad Bartholomew.

So Courtney is the biological mother and Brad is the husband of Courtney, so he's the stepfather you know of Rebecca Park the victim.

So again, Rebecca Park was twenty two years old.

She was thirty eight weeks pregnant.

Oh, I think maybe thirty nine.

She was due basically, she was do She was one hundred percent due.

She disappeared on November third and was found dead on the twenty fifth in the Manistee National Forest in Michigan, prompting a multi agency investigation.

Authorities are continuing to search for victim Rebecca Park's missing baby and have released very limited details due to the investigation sensitivity.

However, I think from reading the charges, we can kind of, you know, ascertain what happened, and then I'll talk about So I'll read some of the charges.

There's so many.

I'll read some of the charges, and then I will read what the cops think happened.

How's that great?

So let's go through the charges.

Okay, So, uh, victim re Becca Park's mother, her name is Courtney Bartholomew.

And here's here's some of the charges.

Okay, immediately, Yeah, so these are these are Courtney's the biological mom and her arraignment again was today.

One count of premeditated homicide, one count of torture, one count of assault on a pregnant individual causing a miscarriage or still birth.

Yeah, one count of unlawful imprisonment, one count of removal of dead bodies without consent.

Yeah, so that's that's the mom's charges.

The stepdad's charges are like the same, except for instead of premeditated homicide, it's just homicide.

He has the torture, the conspiracy to commit homicide, the assault of a pregnant individual.

He has all those two one count of unlawful imprisonment, et cetera, and one count of removing dead bodies without consent.

He also because he's an habitual defender, he's also been charged as the habitual defender, So both of them were denied bond, both of the goodness.

So basically, they took her, lured her into the bomb's home, held her captive, did unspeakable things to her, and then removed her body and place.

You're stealing my thunder here right now, right, Nancy Drew.

But I have a question about one of the charges, which is for Rebecca Parks's mother, Courtney Bartholo Mule is charged with one count of assault on a pregnant individual causing a mis carriage or still birth.

Right, But to my knowledge, we have not nobody has found the baby.

Is that correct?

Correct?

That is correct?

But you know, the I think the other night when we were on I think it was I think it was Sir Joseph.

When we were on with Joseph, I had mentioned that the cops were out there searching the house, the trailer that they live in, and they were taking devices and then burn barrels and things like that from the home while we were on the show.

And I think what maybe has happened is in the in the course of the investigation, they found communication between you know, all these characters that could you know, maybe alluded to the fact that this had happened because they the county prosecutor, Joanna Carey has come out and said basically what they think happened, and it includes that.

So let me let me go through that.

So the couple, it's saying that Courtney and Brad again, Courtney is the biological mother of victim Rebecca Park and Brad is her husband.

Is not Rebecca's dad, but he is Courtney's husband.

The couple researched and planned the crime prior to doing that, like why would they ever?

Do you remember when I presented this case.

Do you remember when I presented this case, I had mentioned that Courtney, the biological mother, was kind of I feel like, obsessed with being pregnant, and she had taken a sonogram picture that you can find on Google and presented it as her own and then messaged a friend saying that she had the baby and that it was in the nick you and it was going to be coming home soon.

So all this time she sat planning to.

I think that was part of it, like this whole build up.

So the couple researched and planned the crime.

The husband, Bradley, allegedly brought Rebecca, the victim, to their home, forced her into a different vehicle.

They allegedly drove her into the woods.

Rebecca was stabbed and forced to lie on the ground.

Her unborn baby was cut from her womb.

Both she and the baby died, and prosecutor Johanna Carey described a crime as evil personified.

And you know what I agree.

I mean for me to hear, yeah, that's too much if the prosecution is coming out this plainly at this point, so.

I think they found something.

Now listen, I'm telling you, guys, these people never shut up.

They're they're live on TikTok all the time, just make all these crazy stories and you know, well they're not live now, they're in jail.

But prior to the arrest.

You know, this was building a lot of momentum on social media, particularly TikTok, and they never shut up.

So I.

Have to see one TikTok's immediately.

Can you send one to me right now?

I just need to see right now.

But my phone is on the other.

But when you're saying they were all over, you're talking about the victim, Rebecca Parks, her family, her family, her sister to leave, was had some engagement.

Yeah, so her sister, Kimberly Park, has been charged with lying to police in the investigation of a violent crime, false felony reporting.

So there's it's unclear if those charges are connected to Rebecca's death or if Kimberly had any knowledge of it, but she was lying to police.

So I have a feeling this is I have no evidence of this, you guys, but I have a feeling there's some communication between Kimberly the sister, and Courtney the mom about what happened, and Kimberly was lying for her.

I'm mistaken that that one of the accusations was she tampered with evidence as well.

Tampering with evidence.

That's another one, right.

Okay, So she did that well, I mean, it seems like it's connected, but that could be.

Just deleting a text message, you know what I mean.

It could be anything.

It could be anything.

So we don't know, but we're obviously going to find out.

But we don't know right now.

Interesting said it's horrific, go ahead, and is the victim's father in the picture.

I might be misunderstanding this, but what I'm seeing is that according to Park's father in a statement on November twenty fifth, he was the person who found Rebecca Park's body with the search party.

With her brother.

So his her biological father and her biological brother were out searching for her, and there were a couple search crews and they found something kind of they were kind of far away from it, but they I think they knew it was her.

So they went and grabbed another search team and said, we think we might have found something, but we're scared to look, you know, I mean, this is his daughter, rights And the search team was like okay, and they went and looked, and of course it was her, and the father really loves her.

Probably no, I'm really not sure about the biological father's relationship.

She was adopted and by another family with her and her sister.

They were adopted.

I think they were taken from Courtney the mom.

I mean, these people are not stable people.

They are like insane.

Yeah, they're literally insane, and I mean it's wild.

These people are wild.

And they were all like sleeping with the same man too, baby with the baby daddy, well many years ago though, I mean, it doesn't make it better.

But Courtney, yes, at one point, had a relationship with Richard Fowler, and Richard Fowler is Rebecca the victim, Rebecca's baby daddy flash fance And where is he Well, we don't know, but apparently the cops did suspect him at one point because they served a search warrant to his father's trailer where Richard and Rebecca were staying.

And in the search warrant it said that they were looking for a fetus and so yeah, yeah, but in the course of that search they found like this evidence that he was distributing meth.

So he's been charged with two counts of meth.

And here's the thing I think Brad is talking Brad again, is Courtney's stuff or Courtney's husband the biological mom because he's being housed a different jail, and he was also seen like kind of with the investigators when they were searching the property.

He was seen with them kind of like talking to them and stuff.

So I think he's maybe talking.

Well, he must be.

Because he's also a convicted pedophile who has his record.

They all now he's a repeat offender that's back at jail.

He's he's definitely all doom and gloom if he doesn't speak up right.

This is a sickening story.

In my eyes is broken for Rebecca and may may she find some peace?

Can we like go to something a little lighter.

Was going to say something later, Yeah.

Well go ahead, Courtney, what were you going to say?

Yeah?

I mean, should you have any thoughts on this very deeply sad case of Rebecca Park who has lost her life when she was nine months pregnant and likely her baby's life.

You can hit us on the talk pack and in the meantime we are going to go to a different talk pack.

Hey, this is Lisa from Pittsburgh.

Wanted to send you a huge thank you and a bit of a giggle.

Every time you say there's a talk to your kids about this thing, I do.

I text my sixteen year old and ask, well, today I got a message from him that said, Hey, there's.

This new thing going around.

I just want to let you know they're not going to take advantage of me.

So I appreciate you opening up that line of communication.

At first he was weirded out, but now it's easy.

That is so adorable.

By the way, That's been the case for me too.

Suddenly once you kind of like RaSE the ice with some of this heavy stuff.

I mean, we talk about a lot of heavy stuff, but I'm so glad to hear that.

Once you bring the ice, I am so thrilled.

Yeah, yeah, I find the same and that just I think it thrills all of our hearts.

But yeah, I'm so happy.

And honestly, that really is the biggest thing, or one of the absolute biggest things you can do to prevent something from happening to your child or to a child in your life is an awareness of what is out there without You don't need to be super ghoulish necessarily, but it's open communication is really is everything.

The key, even.

For adults, all of us.

Right, the more we talk about some of this stuff difficult as that last story, is to absorb and hear the details of it's really important that we talk about it because again, you don't know what to protect yourself from in this world, and I don't know, it makes us all a little bit safer and a little bit smarter and you know, less less like pray.

You know, when I was young, I was like anything my mom said, I was like, you know, she's stupid, you know, or whatever.

So but I can see like if she had come to me and been like, you know, if this happens to you, let me know it, you know, it's okay, I think I would have been able to talk to her about things.

More so, I do think that that I don't have children, so I don't know, you know, or even.

Just if you talk about it all the time kind of regularly, it's not this big weird conversation, you know, Like what makes truth bomb is just we're all super uncomfortable, you know, if you're just unaturally asually talking about stuff again, you know, within reason, I mean PG the G version, but you know, things like just safety and general safety.

I think for all of us is really important to keep you know, top of mind or.

Even like what Katie Greer the Internet X Birth that she's spoken with and also Jessica Kaplan, the therapist, and people that we interviewed for in cels.

It's all all of them are like just open the communication and kind of often you know, whenever something, oh I heard X in the news and you know, versus, hey, what the heck are you doing on your device?

You know, not accusatory, So just keeping it in the ether, like you said, Stephanie, in a non pressurized, non accusatory way.

You know.

I posted the story of that that kid Bryce tape to my Facebook.

Oh so sad, so so sad.

This this this kid, he was fifteen and he was being sex storted.

It took three hours, right, I posted it to my Facebook, And do you know how many people on my Facebook didn't believe it was true?

Crazy?

They thought they thought something was wrong with him, like, oh, he must have been some you know for him knew that three hours.

Yeah, he got blame or they thought I was fibbing.

No oh no.

Yeah, it's gotten ridiculous.

I was like, here's the thing.

Putting all that aside, which is horrible, by the way, that's wild.

But also if another child, if this is the case for all of us, E've been taking kids out of it.

When you're faced with that situation.

That might seem like, Ah, it's just my mom or that's just my you know, overprotective friend or partner or whomever, until you find yourself in the thick of it and then suddenly those you know, Spidey sense kicks in and that could be a lifesaver.

Absolutely, ladies.

Man, well listen, please leave it here.

Coming up at the top of the hour, we are going to be switching on to new topics.

We've got slender Man update, We've got that, We've got more talkbacks True Crime Tonight.

Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio.

We're talking true crime all the time of Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong and Body Move in listen.

If you haven't heard, Luigi has been back in court today and man, this case is definitely heating up.

It's actually a huge week for trials in general, including the Brian Walsh case.

We talked about that earlier in the hour as well.

If you've missed any of the show No Sweat, you can always catch us right after also as a podcast.

So Luigi, the crowds continue outside the New York Courthouse unbelievable.

There were all Meiji costumes, which makes me crazy.

By the way, I mean, turning him into a iconic supermodel that people worship is also so demented in my mind.

But all that to be said.

His lawyer is actually married to Ditty's defense lawyer.

Talk about a little legal power couple.

Yeah.

Big Time also highlighted in the Diddy doc that I can't talk.

To you guys about Wait a minute, can we talked about that?

Yeah?

I mean it was pretty interesting.

I can't wait for you guys to watch it.

I mean, I'm only uh, you know, a quarterway through, but I'm sure by tomorrow night I will be fully there.

So jump in.

It doesn't need to be a true crime and chill per se.

But you know, we talked about the Diddy case so so much that I think we were all unsure if it would be worth the watch or not a because we've covered it so much and are we all just a little tired of Diddy at this point?

But no, until I started watching, and I think it's pretty pretty interesting.

It also gives you an interesting timeline, you know.

I think for me, I wasn't as familiar with a Tupac Biggie part of Puffy.

Story, and I think that's the one I'm most familiar.

With exactly, And I really probably started getting into Diddy, and I was a fan when j Loo stepped into the mix, all right, because they used to date, right, Oh, they used to date.

He was remonsible for her like remember that versace.

Green dress, green dress, Yes.

That's like what he was.

I known for pairing her in and.

Remember that the shootout at the club, and that was very controversial and so much to still come, I'm sure.

But there's a lot about Diddy prior that I really didn't know, and it's really well done.

Yeah, I thought it was going to be a rehash of all the same things.

But if there's new, fresh info, I will be sitting and watching it.

I'm just so curious what he thinks of it.

Oh, he's probably furious Diddy.

Well, I mean it seems like that he and his camp are not happy with some of the footage that is in the dock by Fittycent, So that makes me I'll be curious.

If that is a whole other life.

His response is going to be interesting, right, because he says he's reformed, He says he's, you know, a religious man, now he's sober, et cetera.

If he flies off the handle at fifty cent, it's going to be interesting.

If there's like this new like West Coast East coast thing, it's not going to be like that.

But you know, let's just say, let's live in a world that where you know, it could be something like that, and it's going to be very telling because he has changed it all.

Well, it's interesting and again if you haven't watched, this won't be very fun.

So I'll keep it very brief, but definitely watched so we can chat about it again.

Doesn't need to be this week.

We can definitely still to our are still to our our normal stuff.

But you know, I sort of really started noticing Diddy again when Jayla was in the mix after Biggie had died his beloved best friend, and that song I'll Be Missing You that he sang infamously on stage with Sting that one night.

That's kind of when I really tuned in and became kind of a I think it was a then puff fan and now later to become ditty, right, But it does tell an interesting part of the Biggie story and how it's possible that you know, Puff at the time really forced the hand to be in Los Angeles where Biggie was ultimately killed because there was this gang war between East Coast and West Coast after Tupac's death, and did he just felt like his ego wanted him to sort of be on La turf giving a big party kind of as a sort of like a you know, an few if you will, right, And ultimately that was the night that Biggie died and Biggie wanted to go home.

Oh well, one thing, and you had mentioned all of did he you know, filming himself?

And indeed, the director of the documentary, Alexandria Stapleton, said, their purview it being the footage.

It came to us.

We obtained the footage legally and have the necessary rights.

We moved heaven and earth to keep the filmmaker's identity confidential.

One thing about Shawn Colmbs is that he's always filming himself and it's been an obsession throughout the decades.

Okay, and that says it.

Wait a minute, hold on, So Sean Combs, did he right hires a film guy, a camera dude, whatever, a filmmaker to follow him around, right like his own reality TV show.

Okay, So then he gets arrested and convicted and goes to prison, and the filmmaker sells that footage to Bitty Cent a portion of it.

I mean, really, the footage that I've seen so far and I'm on the early stage of watching, was really the six.

Days leading up to his quest.

So he flies to New York six days prior.

He's staying at the New York hotel hyatt Or saying yeah, where he was ultimately arrested in the lobby.

We've all seen that footage, but this is the six days prior.

He's in a hotel room and there are other people there, and you hear him talking to his lawyer, who's also the husband of Luigi's Luigi's defense attorney, which is why I make the connection.

It seems very claustrophobic, and did he is like, look, I'm in town.

What's the problem.

Like this is not looking great?

Like we need to win.

I feel like the shoe is about to drop, and boy did it ever?

So, like, that's an interesting piece of the beehive that you're looking at.

I just think it's wild that he has a person in that hotel room with him shooting.

That moment and for what end.

Well, I probably thought I'm going to be this is not going to happen.

I'm not going to I'm going to get off and this will make a good future documentary about me and how.

It's always he's always producing.

He's always producing.

He always just has an ego.

I mean, are there's so many criminals, you know, I'm thinking of the cult guy to Rinier.

We've discussed this.

He's er who also had like a film crew following him all day all night that he had on staff.

People who think that they're worthy of a twenty four hour filmmaker to be following them, that they're the ones paying, Like they're not being commissioned.

It's not like HBO wants to follow you because you're so interesting, just because it's because you think.

I'm so fascinating.

I will say, though, having cameras follow you around is pretty it's pretty gives you a good ego.

Listen, I yeah, it does.

Think it really does.

It makes you way does it as well?

So I think a lot of people who have that big ego, so he.

Might needed that.

Like it's not particularly flattering either, it's like, it honestly shows you know, a slice of him that even if you have a camera on you and you're being on your best behavior, it's not that flattering, well best behavior.

I just honestly, I just came across a quote.

I haven't seen one second of this documentary, but after reading this, I will be.

Watching it immediately after the show.

Oh literally.

Yeah.

So I don't know if you got to this part yet, Stephanie or anyone else who's watched it, but apparently in the documentary.

Are you going Shawn spoilers right now?

No, this is one line of what he said, and it takes place.

It's in He's on the phone six days before his arrest.

Is Stephanie laid out and apparently he says, we need to find someone who will work with us, who has worked in the dirtiest of dirty businesses.

We are losing.

Yeah, no, like that's what he says.

It's not a good look.

It's really you know, some stuff that's also in the trailer, but it's so gross.

It just says so much like he's walking through Harlem, like shaking hands and giving love and hugging on his fans, and then he gets in the car and.

He's like, oh, I need some like hand washed, like oh act and it just gives chills, you know, it just gave me the chill.

The facade is gone, it's been removed, right.

And he's been added for a really long time.

So yeah, it just paints a very I think elegant bad picture of him.

Wow.

So if you're just tuning in, if you're just tuning in, we've just kind of just kind of gossiping, right, I just having a little gossip session about the new Diddy documentary.

If you watched it, give us a call eight to eight thirty one Crime or hit us on the talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app where we kind of want to know what you guys think.

It seems pretty interesting.

But Courtney, I understand you have an interesting update for us as well.

Yes, this is going back to the slender Man case.

Yeah, okay, Yeah.

So a judge right now is being asked to send Morgan Geyser, who was one of the perpetrators of the twenty fourteen slender Man stabbing case.

A judge is being asked to send her back to a psychiatric facility and not to jail.

And this comes on the heels of Morgan Geyser, a perpetrator of this attack, escaping a group home in Wisconsin.

Now, this arrest of Morgan Geyser happened on November twenty third in Illinois, after Morgan Geyser had cut off her ankle monitor and fled her group home.

So all of.

This and so again Morgan Geyser is now being brought back to Wisconsin.

And as a reminder, back in twenty fourteen, Morgan Geyser was twelve years old at the time, she and her fellow twelve year old friend and accomplice, Anissa Weir, stabbed their classmate, a victim, Peyton Lautner.

They stabbed her nineteen times.

They nearly killed her in the woods after a sleepover, and the claim was that this was all to a He's the fictional character slender Man.

The victim, even though she was stabbed nineteen times, has survived, thankfully.

But Morgan geyser escaping was incredibly scary for all involved.

I mean, she's clearly unwell.

So once Geyser so she cut off GPS.

She meets up with a friend who she had met through church and they take a bus to Illinois and Morgan Geyser was then brought back with no charges in the state of Illinois, and Geyser's attorney has formally requested that Geyser be transferred back to a mental health facility, and they argue that she's not facing any new criminal charges and was originally institutionalized under a mental disease verdict and therefore shouldn't be in jail.

Well, she needs to be.

She needs to be in a secure facility.

Not group Yeah, it's not safe for the other group home inmates, you know, for anybody who's exactly that's exactly right.

And I'm curious if her mother has come out at all Morgan Geyser mom.

You know, she has in the past and has spoken out kind of publicly about the mental health issues.

You know, she knows her daughter had been suffering with at this point.

But I didn't see much about that today, you know, I've either I didn't either.

But in the past, so Geyser herself perpetrator.

She disclosed years ago lifelong visual and auditory hallucinations, including figures that she interpreted as ghosts and things melting down walls, and her mother at the time did describe Geyser as being floridly psychotic is what it is?

What does that mean?

And you know I have not heard the term either.

I wrote it down and did not bother to look it up, I know.

So okay, Google tells me listen to the state of acute psychosis with severe and obvious symptoms such as hallucinations.

The florid phase is the most intense period of psychotic episodes.

Her brain is sick, you know, ill.

I mean I really believe that, I really believe she's but I mean, she can't be in these open group homes though.

It's ridiculous.

And you know, people warned the judge like way back when when she got just recently, actually I think this year early this year, right rand to this group home, that something was going to happen, like because she's unwell.

So they'll be a hearing on December twenty second and the state will figure out then where Indeed Morgan guys goes.

I would have thought, not.

To go back to the beginning of the show, but even back to Luigi, that mental illness was playing some part in his path, but that has never come up.

No, not yet.

Well listen, keep it here.

We have topics from Anna Kepner and lots of other dms.

True Crime Tonight.

Welcome back to True Crime Tonight.

We are so happy you are here joining us, and I think you guys, we should hop right into a talk back.

Hey, ladies, listening as a Sunday episode of Umnic Caountner.

I'm just wondering this asphixiation just means the loss of breast or does it mean like I'm just wondering.

Did maybe the stepbrother put a pillow over her face or does.

It actually mean she was choked to death?

Just to talk, you know, stuff we've been talking about.

Perhaps you know there were play fighting.

Maybe you know she stopped breathing because you know a pillow smothered her.

Obviously, just trying to play.

Double is advocate by channeling my inner Sefty Thames, ladies.

By when we were just talking about this, but we were yeah.

Because what's the difference between great question, By the way, thank you for remaining hopeful for the sixteen year old who was being associated with this horrible, horrible event.

But it's three things, right, what's the difference between strangulation elation and then the mechanical exphyxiation which is also a new layer being added to this report, which is what they're saying.

Correct, she died from and panical exphyxiation means someone died because airflow was blocked by an outside force, typically caused by pressure on the neck, chest, or airway.

So that is.

Right.

And exphyxiation itself can happen from many different things.

To the talkbacks point, right, it could be strangulation, it could be suffocation, it could be a pillow, it could be a good point.

It could be chemical, it could be drowning.

But this was a mechanical exphyxiation.

And I think at one point they said it was a bar hold, didn't.

They That was an indication I remember seeing, yeah.

And as Mema well for sure, and I don't know if this is fact right, But mem who is Anna Kepner's grandmother, who she and her grandfather were on the cruise ship as well, although they were not in the room obviously at that moment.

But I saw her giving an interview that was heart wrenching, and she basically said that she was in the first portion of the interview that police were doing with the sixteen year old stepbrother after the body was found, and she made kind of that choke hold, you know, when she kind of made that gesture, and then I've seen another person on the news also just make that gesture, but it doesn't say that anywhere.

So I mean a pillow.

That's a that's a great thought.

And I don't know that we know the answer quite yet.

I could have sworn it was reported early on that it was a bar a bar hold.

Yeah, yeah, which again, you could do that while playing around, if you're horsing around, as you know sometimes and again this is not a boys will be boys statement.

I do not mean that in any way, but if.

You're clowning around, and I have all brothers, so it would not be uncommon for somebody to be in a choke hold just on a you know, on the way to.

Dinner, but you know, are long rough housing in that hold in order to die.

It's a long time, is that right?

Yeah, it's a long time, like if you if you, yeah, it's a long time to choke somebody.

And even if she's so little, even if she's little, it doesn't matter whow and listen, we're definitely on different sides of the coin here, Like I think this kid's probably guilty of it because again the you know, the friend of Anna Kepner talked to the little brother and he said he heard a commotion inside that room.

And has that been reported anywhere except for the friend saying it?

No, just no, It's been reported that the friend said that.

Yeah.

I mean, that's how I got it that he did an interview.

Yeah, but the friend was hearing that from the boyfriend.

So it was the boy The boyfriend is the one who said it, got it the reporters.

Yeah, but again that's all hearsay, right, It is a little bit.

I guess it's just because he's a minor, the sixteen year old.

It's tough, I know.

So it's.

So you think that he was a psychopath at sixteen years old, had a thing or was a little off to begin with, as reported by Anna Kepner's ex boyfriend, and that he intentionally took her life.

I do.

Let's just say as reported by Anna Kepner's ex boyfriend and not by Anna Keptner's grandparents who said this was a normal kid, was a normal kid, as well as Anna Keepner's father who has said he was a quote normal kid.

So just yeah, all sides, right, I mean, just sixteen years old, man.

I mean listen, I also watched Nancy Grace and shed be on your side of things, body, and I'm not on a side.

I'm just oh, I'm just devastating to see somebody so young.

And I just don't I just don't think age really is.

I mean, look at we just talked about Slenderman.

They were twelve.

It breaks my heart.

I mean, I don't think age.

I just don't think age is something that holds somebody back from being off the rails.

Well, but just the other side of that would be that you know, your brain isn't fully developed at all, your frontal lobes.

We know this as facts are not developed.

So your reasoning is questionable.

Now just add any teenager at that age in terms of their reasoning, because you don't fully understand consequences.

You know, you don't really understand consequences until those consequences really hit you in the face.

And I guess I'm just responding to what mem her grandmother, Anna Kapner's grandmother said in an interview days after.

And he was like howling, crying, and you know, the sixteen year old, you know, was this just something that got away?

And you know, just as a heartbreaker.

Yeah, but I mean I've seen you know, sixteen year olds who what wasn't There was a case recently where the young guy was arrested for the rape charges.

He's crying, So I mean, yeah, they might have done something awful and you feel guilt.

About it in those emotions.

That's right in that way.

So that's true.

It's it's yeah, I mean, I just strangulation if if that's what happened, it just takes a long time.

It's very like, very intentional.

It's very intentional, and it's also very intimate.

It's also very intimate.

One piece of the puzzle though, because it's been brought up a few times, is that she was not feeling well at dinner.

She said her brace is hurt, her brace is hurt or something.

She was nauseous, you know.

According to her grandmother, Mima, she was, you know, sickened, and she just like something wasn't sitting right.

She was like, I'm going to go back to the room.

Yeah.

Was that real?

Is it possible that she had been she had been food poisoned, for example, and maybe she was like a little off and got back to the room and wanted to use the bathroom and he was standing in her way because now she has like a bad stomach, and they're in this small little room, and maybe he was taunting her, as you know, sixteen year olds that are dumb dums my do, and it just escalated.

I just I have to believe.

That it was something unintentional, and I reserve the right.

God knows to be wrong.

But no, I mean, I hope that that's entirely possible.

I do.

I just I still can't get past the fact that then you would hide the body under the bed, then put you know, life preservers and kind of cover it up.

I mean, I know he's sixteen, so we're not fully developed, but at that point, if you've injured a family member, it seems like you've got all these other family members down the hall.

When you go and say, I think I just did something wrong, I don't know.

I mean, I just, yeah, I know, what do you do in that situation?

Think about it?

I mean, I listen, Brian Walsh.

We talked about, you know, the accused wife killer.

That was his big idea.

So I guess to your point, you know, people do really bad things.

Well, his life is ruined, no matter how you slice it.

We know her body was found under his bed and it was covered with life jackets, and he slept that night on top of that bed along with her biological brother.

I mean, that's what I just don't have anything, you imagine.

It never really occurred to me that he slept on that bed and the standing.

Yeah, that's my understanding as.

Well, because where else would he have gone until the next morning.

So and the little boy that was her birth brother at fourteen came back into the room and he went to bed, and he was he.

Was just out.

He was out exploring the ship.

And you know, I think taking pictures or something.

Yeah, right, I don't know.

I guess I just yeah, I'm a little harsher.

I guess I don't know.

No, No, you're just probably a little more.

Yeah.

There's you know, there's an old meme.

Can I talk about it real quick?

There's an old meme.

And it's a three little beakers, okay, and they've got little smiley face on them and stuff, and one says I'm half full, and they're all half full, okay, And one says I'm half full, and the other one it's got a little sad face and he says, I'm half empty, and then the other one because it's like yellow liquid in these beakers, I'm half full.

I'm half empty, and the other one says I'm full of piss says I'm realist.

That's funny.

It's one of my favorites and that's me.

Well, yeah, file a little bit more.

But yeah, well that one is one we'll keep following.

And if we have for sure legal questions or anything, we can ask Jared about that.

Do we know if they have alcohol, if by any chance on the.

Ship, I don't know, but if the ship itself, well, I know the ship probably had alcohol.

But Anna was eighteen, she could I think drink on the ships, right.

Yeah, that's a good question.

If you're National water drink at eighteen, I feel like you probably there.

This was days ago.

Yeah, preliminary finding, So okay, maybe something comes up.

But preliminary find findings indicate both no signs of sexual assault as well as no drugs and no alcohol in her system.

Okay, I just kind of wondered maybe, But I mean, I don't know if you guys ever, like if you're when we were younger, you know, my mom would let me have a wine cooler, you know what I mean.

It was like, you can have a wine coolers.

Do you guys remember wine coolers?

I loved it.

Right now those anymore?

Those they were so anyway, my mom would be like, you know, I was like sixteen.

She's like, you can have one with you know, with us tonight or whatever.

And I just especially when you're on vacation, you.

Know, I'm sure.

So, I'm just I was just wondering, is.

There a world that we live in in which where the sixteen year old kid maybe had some alcohol or you know, Anna had some alcohol or something, and to your point, stuff something happened.

But you know, like death by strangulation is just it takes a while, it is.

Yeah, I didn't think about that until you said it that I didn't.

I think you pass out and to psychology come back.

So quest to ask Joseph.

I think I think that's a good question.

I think you take it takes like thirty to sixty seconds to like pass out and then another three to six minutes to die, so.

You have to literally be holding it first to me.

Right, and I could be wrong about that, please, you know, take it with a great of salt.

I'm just recalling memory.

We'll have a conversation with Joseph about it.

We also got a DM about the same case.

Oh yes, this one is from Leslie and she says, hello, huge fan.

So glad there's a true crime show that covers cases nearly every day.

Anyway, just a note about the Anna Kepner case.

We cruise often on Carnival and have actually cruised on the Horizon ship that sweet Anna lost her life on.

Totally creepy to think about.

Because we often we cruise often, and we have an interesting family dynamic as well.

Three young adult.

Kids, two young kids, the room situation becomes difficult.

Technically, someone over the age of twenty one should be quote staying in each room according to the Carnival rules.

Trust me, I have often thought it would be easy to pile the adults adult kids none to twenty one at the time in our last cruise in a room by themselves.

But because of this twenty one year old rule and understanding there is a reason for this rule, we have always abided.

As a side note, I can see Carnival not accepting any liability liability whatsoever.

If Anna was the oldest staying in this room, what.

Are your thoughts.

I think I had mentioned that I thought it was weird that, you know, the teenagers are all in their own room, especially then when they're not related.

But I understand, and I say that as somebody who grew up with like no money at all and going on a cruise would be like this extravagant thing.

And I know how expensive it would be to be able to house all these kids in different rooms with an adult.

I say that knowing that, But you know, here we are, no, here.

We are, And I wonder what the dynamic between the family was prior, right, So is this one of those cruises where we're blending a family and not everyone gets on and you're hoping that this kind of sorts out some of the kinks or is everybody thick as thieves?

And this has been a beautiful, smooth transition just based on what we've read allegedly allegedly allegedly, we know that Anna Kepner's birth mother wasn't really included in family festivities.

In fact, she wasn't even invited to go to our unders funeral.

So there was some tension on that side of things, no doubt.

But I wonder, as you know, you blend a family, step kids, stepmothers, always father, but not always right.

Maybe it's perfect and maybe this was.

But was this something that they did often as a family.

You know, they had meable there and Grandpa.

There was this one of those trips that was a learning curve trip where the idea was, yeah, like everybody, it's a lot of people.

We are on that boat together.

We're bonding experience family.

That's a great concept.

Actually, that's all Yeah.

And it kind of fits all ages.

You can be the older kids can find something fun to do.

The little kids can also enjoy fun things.

Honestly, a great idea to take the family on a cruise, I think, yes, yeah, there's something for everyone.

And now this family is for sure ripped apart because you know they're on opposite sides of things.

Yeah, we'll stick around.

We have more to dig into.

We've got some more talkbacks to get to and keep it right here at True Crime Tonight, we're talking true crime all the time.

Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio.

We're talking true crime all the time.

I'm I'm staff here with Courtney and Body and listen.

We have a couple of talkbacks to get through.

Let's go to one right now.

Hi, this is Andrea from Indiana, and I had a question for Body about metadata.

I was wondering what her opinion was of the Johnny Depp Amber Heard case because metadata played a part in the photos that Heard was submitting us evidence of her abuse and her makeup or not lack of makeup.

I'm wondering what you guys think is that was that real?

Or was that message?

Thank you?

Yeah?

The metadata is such a great question because we had the same one for Body as well, because I didn't realize that if you take a picture of a picture, then the metadata doesn't count.

You don't see it like a screen.

Yeah, like when you take a screenshot, it's not really you know, the camera isn't capturing it, right.

And that's kind of what happened with the Amber Heard and Johnny Depp's stuff.

So from what I recall, this is many years ago.

From what I recall, the defense attorneys for Johnny Depp called a forensics expert who said that, you know, a lot many of the photographs that Amber her presented of the abuse that she's you know, claiming that she suffered through, they couldn't verify the metadata because the EXIF which is EXIF data, is what's on pictures, like the geolocation, the kind of camera that took the phone or the picture, you know, things like that, and the software section is supposed to stay supposed to say like the iPhone camera, and the field didn't say that, meaning that the phone didn't take the picture.

So it was it was edited.

Oh okay, right.

So was Amber heard in this I don't recall was did it appear that she or her attorneys were trying to shift time or shift the narrative to fit their story, or just it simply was, hey, we can't verify this.

No.

From from my understanding, amberhard submitted photos of like this abuse, like bruises and stuff on my face, and what the defense, the defense forensics expert said was I can't authenticate these photos because they have been altered outside of the phone, because the metadata didn't match what it was supposed to say.

But Amber's response to that was while I lost my phones.

I lose my phones all the time, asked my sister or something like that.

Okay, so it's such a messy trial.

It really was, and it was a while ago, but that's but that's That's how it works though, So if you take a photo on your phone, you can do it right now.

Take a photo on your phone, open it up in your gallery and hit the little if you if you have an Apple iPhone, hit the little eye button, like the little information button.

It was like a little eye with like a circle around it.

I think that you And from there you can view a lot of the metadata on that photo.

Now, when you send it to somebody, like say, I send it to Courtney and she opens it up in Photoshop and you know, puts a bruise on my face and then sends it back to me and I save it to my gallery.

The software field right in the metadata is not going to match your other the actual pictures you took with your phone.

It's going to be different.

So you can tell if it's going to tell kind of filtered or changed in any way shape or form.

So and then you know, if somebody sends you a photo and they're like, hey, I'm here, sorry I couldn't join you for dinner tonight, and then you look at the metadata and it's from you know, three and a half weeks ago, you know, liar liar pants on power to.

Get around that.

To get around that ask, take go to your gallery, find a picture view on that Hawaiian trip.

All right, screenshot it, send that because it won't have the metadata on.

This, so clears it away.

So right, okay, So anyway, that's the great question, though, work around.

I'm glad we cleared.

By the way, I just saw Amber heard some photographs of her looking very happy.

She's a mother.

Now.

I think she's living in a different country, of course, if I'm not mistaken, I think she moved to a different country and started anew and had a little family of her own.

And of course Johnny Depp is back to it acting and money.

She had to be excommunicated from the world and he gets his career.

But Sam coming.

Sam is saying Spain.

So thank you, happy and healthy and was making a turkey for her family.

Oh she is a turkey, so good for her.

It's pretty turkey though.

She's very beautiful.

I hope that helped.

I hope that I'm doing that for memory.

So I got some of the details incorrect.

But yeah, that tip for me is like, if I ever want to say, oh, look here's the picture with me.

Listen every time Tamas sends me a photo.

Now I'm going to be looking at that.

Yeah, I had a girlfriend And this happens very regularly.

That the guy was like, I.

Have a girlfriend who was supposed to bet on a date with somebody.

I forget the total details, but he was basically veiling saying, oh, I'm.

So sorry, I'm with my kids.

We had an emergency.

And then she looked at the metadata and oh yeah, it was from like two and a half months prior.

My favorites with the text and it's it's a live photo.

Do you know what those are?

Oh yeah, I'm in.

I'm in a reddit subreddit that talks about live photos, and it's like it's like live photo goofs or something like that, and it's like a bunch of mistakes people have made with I photos, like like your friend like, oh I can't come, I'm there's an emergency, and you know, the girl clicks the photo so it plays for like those three or four seconds.

Yeah, and there's like a woman with him.

Oh yeah.

Those Oh no, yeah, do you have strong I pronounce it and correctly Snden Shoden Frowden, Yes, yeah, by you, I had of it.

I'm always like that could be you were making a face like you had something to report on the Amber Heard situation.

Okay, I didn't have anything to report, but the face I made was that I remembered that her and Elon Musk used to get it on, and that just I was like, oh my god, that's a strange piece of information I'd forgotten.

Yeah, she's an interesting backstory if I remember, like, she left home very very very early, she was like fifteen or something and to be an actress.

And yeah, she was with very.

Very very powerful, influential men and you know, potentially very drug fueled.

You know.

I think by that particular trial it seemed to be the case.

And it kind of makes me feel.

For her a little bit, like, well, you got a little way word there in the early days, and you can see how that can catch up with you.

And it did.

So all I would say, she looked very healthy, and it seemed to be enjoying Spanish living.

Yeah, it's not to enjoy shinen frauda.

And I'm sure someone will correct me.

I'd be super strong, like I'm not like, I don't love when people are suffering or noting like.

This, No, I know, but what it is is I I love the It's such a particular emotion.

It's when you get pleasure from someone's misfortune that they caused themselves.

They caused them It's always like when I say, you know, may.

You reput yourself right?

Right?

So I believe I'm not like sitting there like look at this guy.

I know, you know, an example, I'm not twisting my mustache.

The other night.

An example like just what body just.

Said of the the sub breddit of and someone trying to cover up but in the live photo you see there's actually a mistress and they get hot.

Well yeah, okay, but.

It's like that bit of delight if you get it.

That's I just find like people stupidity interesting more than anything, do you know what I mean?

Like Wow, what a dummy?

You know what I mean?

Like what a dumb of that kind of stuff?

Like I joined all those am I dating the same guy?

Facebook groups like in every city just to read like the things that people try to get away with.

I don't know, I just find it interested.

What did they try to get away with those?

Oh god, all so many light there's so like it's so funny.

People post a picture they'll be like this is Andy does anybody have any tea on him.

We just started dating like three weeks ago, and I'm starting to get feelings and like, just from the picture alone, I can say I can tell you it's going to be like a show with problem do you know what I mean?

Like?

And I just like reading them like girls stay Away, and I just I love like the women empowerment in those groups because they're like sweetheart, No, no, no, no, he's bad news.

I dated him three years ago, like he gave me a STV And just anyway, I love those groups that are hilarious.

Wow, funny.

I love them anyway.

I'm talking way too much.

No, you're not well?

Do you want to do?

We have time for another talk?

Do you want to throw?

Let's see what Adam has for us?

Hi, ladies in Taha.

This is Liz originally from Michigan.

Now I live in Washington State.

I haven't called in since sometime this summer, but I finally decided that I had to weigh in on this whole past food burger.

Idea Boddy, I'm a little disappointed.

Being from the Midwest.

Everybody knows that the real best burger is Culver's Butterburger.

I know I'm from Michigan and it's from Wisconsin, but having been to many, many, many states all over the country, there is absolutely nothing that compares to a Culver's butterburger.

Is listen, Okay, I'm from Detroit.

I have never even heard of Culver's.

Culver's Burger is never heard of it, but I want immediately body is rolling up her sleeves.

Was no, I'm kidding, I'm joking.

I joking, but no, I never even heard of it.

Is this something that maybe popped up?

I left Michigan when I was ten, Okay, so this was I left Michigan in nineteen eighty four, so it might not have been around when I was there.

I don't know.

I went to californ when.

Am I mistaken?

But it might be more of like a Wisconsin.

Oh, Illinois, they probably know what's up with a really good burger.

I mean mid the best word is so delicious.

Listen, give me a castle roll any day, like your Midwestern castle role.

Oh yeah too, I love me on road trips or like around Colorado.

I'm trying to My geography is absolutely horrible.

If I did not literally cheat, this is one of the only things I ever remember cheating on But it was a I couldn't get the fifty states on a map, and I was like, I will never graduate middle.

School, and so I cheated anyway.

Yeah, I was on a road trip somewhere forgiven, thank you, And for several states at gas stations they would have cheese refrigerators.

Just at gas stations.

Can anyone picture what I'm talking about?

It sounds made of it is made of cheese.

No, it would be these little I'm doing about two feet by a foot and a half.

It's a fridge and you open it and it's packaged cheese and you just take yes, well kind of cheese, delicious.

Like spiced cheese, and me like like a cheese just sitting there.

Yes, yes, I'm not okay for tomorrow.

That is my homework for tonight.

I'm going to send you guys pictures because the.

United States of America is such an interesting country because state to state is like a different country, like state is its own little culture, like language accents, dialect like I have never heard of a cheese fridge.

More gas stations when you can make your own like not slushies, but milkshakes, and you press a couple of buttons.

Actually, I've seen those in Vegas.

Actually, yeah, it sounds like at but it's like a it's like a name brand.

It's like a name brand and you just stick a cuppet and you press like Oreo vanilla, yeah, chocolate syrup, and it just goes like yeah, and you've got like a like a blizzard kind of style.

Vote that sounds pretty delicious.

Can we just get back to.

Americans just love their self serve?

Can we get back?

Don't?

Dolop is so delicious.

I don't know what dole whip is.

If you've never been to Disneyland.

It's like the pineapple.

It's a pineapple soft serve.

Oh okay, it's delicious.

It's like like the dairy queen.

Can get the O l E.

Yeah.

And speaking of Dole, I remember one other thing today, what which is actually Dell?

We found a good billionaire, the Dell family days the billion dollars or six billion plus dollars.

And it's four percent of his total network.

They're going to give two hundred and fifty dollars to students, I think for college education starting uppers, like a bunch of kids.

Yes, wow, it's like four percent of their total net worth.

And by the way, today on the countdown, Stephanie, we're on the clock.

We have seventeen days.

Seventy seventeen days till the release of the Epstein Files.

Crazy.

I wanted to get that in reaction from Courtney Armstrong.

She did.

She was that was huge.

Yeah, that wasn't an eye roll.

That was actually an exacerbated look.

Yeah, you've seemed upset.

You're like you should like what just happened?

What went through your mind?

Are you still your bad was to Christmas?

I was like, yes, I literally grabbed any No, I knew it.

That was like that was not the reaction that but that.

Was it was she really is I know.

I was like, wow, Corney, are you okay?

I finally got through to her.

She's on my team.

There's how many days till Christmas?

What do you are you stressed about Christmas?

Courtney?

I'm strong, not anymore since there's a little more time then.

But I thought body was counting down.

The same as everyone.

Seventeen days on the Epstein.

Clock, seventeen days on the X clock, and twenty three I think on the Christmas clock.

Yeah, twenty two, and when does Hankah start and any of the holidays we should be celebrating a single one, and yeah, no stress, it's about don't get stressed over the holidays.

Let's just kind of breathe in, breathe out.

Everyone.

Thank you for spending your Tuesday night with us.

We will of course be back tomorrow.

We will have Jared Farantino with us, our very favorite prosecutor, to answer any real legal questions, so you could always leave us talk backs overnight as well, and we've been stacking them up all week.

So have a great rest of your night and stay safe out there.

B