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I think skinny talk sucks, and I think it's really really disheartening and really discouraging to see all of these awful rhetorics that people have spent so long dispelling suddenly coming back and now being the norm.

Skinny does now automatically equal healthy, and there are a thousand things that definitely taste better than skinny feels.

For Mamma Mia.

I'm your host, Ashanye Dante.

Welcome to But are you happy?

Because overthinking isn't a personality trait, but it feels like one.

And I'm doctor Atastagia Hernis a clinical psychologist passionate about happiness and mental health.

Have you noticed it too, with the rise of weight loss injections and the return of skinny culture.

It feels like we're moving backwards in the body positivity movement.

It really does, and it feels like we pit rewind on so much of the pro aggress we've made collectively as a society.

That's exactly what we're diving into today.

Will unpack what these weight loss injections actually are how we can start to reframe the idea of the ideal body and the signs that this shift might be taking a toll on your mental and physical help.

This is such an important discussion to have.

Let's get into it.

Okay, Anastasia, what actually is ozeenpic?

I know of so many of us here.

It thrown around in pop culture.

So a zeenpic and these weight loss injections that we've been hearing about, they belong to a class of drugs called GLP one, so glucogen lack peptite one receptor agonists A big long title, but essentially azembic and these injections were originally developed and are designed to help adults who had type two diabetes actually manage their blood sugar levels.

So a zembic works by making the action of a natural hormone that we have called GLP one, and it's released in the body after we eat, so it prompts the pancreas to produce and release more insulin when blood sugar levels are really high, which helps lower blood glucose levels.

So a zembig actually delays how quickly food leaves the stomach, and it makes you feel fuller for longer, reducing your appetite.

Kind of coming back to the audio at the beginning of this podcast, this idea of skinny talk.

There's been this re emergence of skinny culture and weight loss injections feel like another chapter in this ongoing narrative of the ideal body.

But what even is the ideal body?

And who who decides?

You tell me a shiney, what's the ideal body?

I don't know, Like the ideal body has changed through the ages, right through times.

It was what like in the Victorian era, it was that very like plump, full figured kind of body, the hourglass figure that was very voluptuous, that was very appealing to people.

And then we moved through time.

We went to the nineteen twenties, that kind of Flappers era where it was, you know, we wanted to look androgynous and have that boyish kind of lean figure.

And then we moved through that supermodel era that was very athletic and tones, and then we got to you know, the kind of Kardashian era where you have very small waists and the big buttocks and you know, those big curves.

So the ideal body is constantly changing.

I don't know what it is or who decides it, but society and culture kind of goes through these waves, which is why it's really hard for us to look to any sort of ideal body because by the time we even potentially achieve it, it's changed to the next thing.

That's so true, and I feel like, especially after working with a lot of teenage girls in workshops, there's one thing we always do where we have a discussion around what even like, what does even mean to be a woman in today's world, And most of the time the first answer that comes out of a girl's mouth is to do with body appearance.

And I know it used to be called slim thick, but I actually now it's you know, the skinny top culture.

Like it does keep changing, and it's disheartening, right.

And it's sad that that's one of the first things that young girls and young women think of when they think about being a woman in the world, that it somehow has something to do with the way they look and the way their body is.

I know, for me, coming from a Tri Luncan background, there's a lot of my younger cousins that live in Tri Lunka and they're quite skinny and their ideal body is they want to get fat, so they want to get fatter, Whereas you know, we look at the Australian culture, people don't want to be fat.

So it is this kind of constant, not only this societal piece, but it is this cultural piece as well.

Absolutely, in my experience, many people don't even realize they're struggling with an eating disorder.

So how do you actually know if you have an eating disorder?

What are some of the signs that we should be looking at for?

So this is a big piece for us to cover.

It's a really important one and I want to just put out there that it's one that we'll talk about sensitively, but please for any listeners take it with a grain of salt.

Right, The eating disorders can present in so many different ways for different people, so there isn't a one size fits all when it comes to this.

But the stats tell us that it's over a million Aussies that are currently experiencing eating disorders and less than one third are actually getting treatment or support.

Right, so there's very high stats of how many women and men.

Right doesn't discriminates women and men that have eating disorders, but very few are actually getting the care and support they need.

So you're going to talk us through the most common eating disorders, starting with anorexia.

What exactly are the symptoms of anorexia.

We refer to it as anorexia, the full name is anorexia nevosa, and this is an eating disorder that's very much characterized by restriction.

So there's a significant restriction of energy intake, which is essentially how much food and energy we're putting into our body, and it leads to a person being significantly underweight to what we would expect for their age, for their height, for their race, etc.

So this is an eating disorder that's characterized by restriction, where someone ends up being very underweight and can develop a range of mental health and physical health problems as a result of that.

So not only do we find that people with anorexia will have significantly low body weight, but they'll also often have this fear of gaining weight.

So the drive to lose weight is perpetuated by a fear of gaining weight.

And some of the common sort of signs or symptoms that we might see could be when someone's significantly underweight, for a female, they stop getting their period, they might develop sort of very fine hair all over their body.

They might get headaches.

They might experience heart problems because their heart is working extra hard to sort of fuel them through the day.

They might be very preoccupied with calories with the food that they eat.

They might wear sort of baggy clothing to sort of hide some of their weight loss from people.

There's a whole a range of ways in which it can actually present.

And what about bolimia, what exactly is it?

Bolimia is another very common eating disorder, and it's characterized by two key features.

So these are binges and purges.

So I'll explain what these are.

A binge is not just overeating, right, not overeating in the sense when we go out for dinner and we eat a little bit too much pizza, right, That's not what a binge is.

A binge is when someone eats an excessive amount of food, usually kind of within a two hour window.

They're usually sort of carb heavy or like saturated, fatty, sugary kind of foods, and a person feels like this behavior is out of their control.

They feel like they're eating even though they're full, even though they might feel discomfort in their stomach or internally, but they're eating in a way that feels out of their control.

This is what we refer to as sort of a binge.

So people with bolimia will experience these binges and then they will also purge.

So this is a compensatory behavior.

People are compensating for the binge that they've had.

So this might look like using laxatives, diuretics, vomiting, or excessive exercise.

So there's some sort of compensatory behavior to compensate for the binge that someone has had, and unfortunately, people can end up in this binge purge cycle.

That's what we are talking about ultimately, when we're talking about bolimia.

Is boliema different than binge eating disorder?

Yes, So binge eating disorder is a different diagnosis to bolimia nevosa.

Binge eating disorder is where someone experiences those same binges as in bolimia, but they don't have the purges.

They don't have necessarily the vomiting or the use of laxatives or excessive exercise to compensate for that.

So binge eating disorder is characterized by the binges, but we don't see the purges.

Now, look, I define these different eating disorders in these ways, but realistically, there are many people who don't fit into these very neat categories of binges and purges and restrictions, right, And so that's why actually in the diagnostic manual we have what we refer to as this category of unspecified eating disorders.

And this isn't to say that they're not specific.

It's just that people don't always fit into neat categories, but yet they can still be experiencing difficulties.

So one example of this is actually something we refer to as atypical anorexia.

So usually with anorexia, we would expect someone to have very low body weight.

However, if someone starts at a high body weight, they can rapidly lose a lot of weight and show all the same signs and symptoms as someone with anorexia, but they just don't have that very low underweight presentation that we would expect.

So this is what we refer to as atypical anorexia.

And the reason we do this is because we want to ensure these people are receiving the important care that they need.

There's also one other eating disorder that I'll mention that's a little bit different to the others, it's called ARFORD, which is avoidant restrictive food intake disorder.

Now, this is a very different kind of presentation.

It's almost what we would refer to as someone who is quote unquote a bit of a fussy eater.

So what we see is that these people really typically prefer to eat maybe bland foods, or they have sensory difficulties that makes it hard for them to eat a wide variety of different foods.

This is common for people who have things like autism, for example, or other neurodevelopmental disorders as well.

Now, I know that you've walked through a few different types of eating disorders, and you know you mentioned that statistic before around how common eating disorders are Out of these different types, are there certain ones that are more common than others?

Yeah, So the research actually shows the most common classification is that unspecified category, right, And I think this just speaks to the so many different ways in which disordered eating can present for people.

So that's actually the most common, and then we know from there on it's binge eating disorder, followed by bilimia and then followed by anorexia.

And kind of coming back actually to the statistic that you mentioned and you were speaking to how many people actually have it, but only very few get support.

What's the reason behind that?

Is that purely a shame piece or an awareness piece.

A lot of different things.

So for some people it really can be you know, embarrassment or shame.

For some people it can be not knowing where to turn to for help.

Also, many of our while services for eating disorders are really quite specialized, they require specialist training to be an eating disorder clinician, and so there can sometimes be a lack of services available as well.

But the other important piece is that when people experience an eating disorder, they often experience this internal division.

There is a part of them that does want to get better and be better and feel healthy, and there is another part of them that's the eating disorder that's fighting for survival.

And so the eating disorder can actually prevent people from reaching out and getting the help that they need.

So what causes an eating disorder?

Because I know we spoke to around the ideal body and it being society that's kind of influencing that, are there other factors beyond that?

Yes, So definitely culture and society influences the development of eating disorders.

If someone's grown up in a household where there's been a really strong focus on diet culture, this can be a risk factor.

There's of course the genetic risk factors that come through as well, but also things like trauma.

If you've experienced trauma growing up, you might be more vulnerable to developing and eating disorder.

People who have a tendency to be quite perfectionistic, to be quite hard on themselves and very internally critical.

But also there's research showing that control can be a big part.

People who feel like and young people who feel like they want a sense of control in their life might be vulnerable to developing and eating disorder.

Who is most at risk with getting an eating disorder?

So while I said before eating disorders don't discriminate men and women both experience them, we do know that adolescent females are very vulnerable and vary at risk.

There's also certain categories of people who engage in elite sports, so like elite gymnasts, elite sports people, elite dancers are also vary at risk.

Again, there's a cultural element to that as well, as you know the genetics that come through as being of vulnerability as well.

But people who have high levels of stress, who have other mental health disorders, that they can all be very vulnerable.

It was really interesting in what you stated before around how eating disorders isn't just experienced by women, it's also experienced by men.

Can you tell me more about that.

Absolutely, it's about thirty three percent of people who have an eating disorder who are male, right, and if that's a really significant amount, that's around a third.

And I think we really have to recognize that and acknowledge that because there can be a lot of stigma and shame for males who are wanting to reach out to get support for eating related behaviors because it is seen as such a typically female thing.

It's going to be even harder for men to reach out and get the help and support they need if there's stigma around men having eating disorders.

What about myths in general?

What are some of the other myths that are out there when it comes to eating disorders.

Well, I think the common one is about who gets eating disorders?

Right that you know it's typically affecting the white, young, middle class adolescent female.

Now we know, yes, they are vulnerable, but it's not just the case eating disorders can affect anyone from any walk of life, doesn't matter their cultural background, their age, their life experiences.

It's true that the peak onset is between around twelve to twenty five years old, so we want to definitely be aware of that because we always know early intervention is best.

But realistically, eating disorders can affect anyone, and they do.

So I'm all about encouraging people to eat healthy, but when does healthy actually start to become harmful?

When is healthy too healthy?

Yes?

Exactly, yes, So there is actually a category.

It's not officially recognized at the moment yet in our diagnostic manual, but the research supports it.

It's something called orthorexia, and this is where a person has as an obsession with healthy or quote unquote clean eating.

So they're very obsessed with kind of the benefits of health foods.

They're always you know, going to the health food shop.

Everything they eat has to be healthy, it has to be clean.

And I mean we see these trends and fads go through social media as well, right, so we can definitely be pulled in that direction through what social media is perpetuating.

But we want to be mindful about, of course, always keeping our food intake in balance.

Right.

We if we become obsessively focused with clean, healthy eating, we run the risk of developing something like orthorexia.

So interesting you mentioned that term because I've never heard of that term before.

So there you go.

I'm learning something.

This is great, But I think something else that I want to unpack a little bit is you know, body image, body positivity.

We hear these terms thrown around a lot, but what does that actually mean to have a healthy relationship.

Yeah, there's a difference between We've been talking about eating disorders, but if we sort of take a sh shift away from specifically talking about eating disorders to talking about body image.

Right, this is essentially the feelings, the attitudes, the beliefs we have towards ourselves about our body.

It's kind of essentially how we feel about our body and the relationship we have with it.

This is such an enormous topic.

We're up against so many factors, culture, genetic, social media.

Stay with us because after the shortbreak, doctor Anastasia is going to explain how we can start building healthier relationships with our bodies.

Okay, Anastasia, how do we actually start building a healthier relationship with our bodies?

It's an excellent question.

What I'm going to talk about relates to body image and not eating disorder specifically, because with eating disorders, we really want to ensure people are seeking out specific specialized treatment for their exact conditions.

And I don't want to be giving advice for how to treat an eating disorder on a podcast, right, So I recommend people go to their GPS, to health professionals, to the Butterfly Foundation website and get the relevant information and treatment that they need.

But if we can talk about body image and how to build a healthier relationship with our body, my key one word takeaway for our listeners is acceptance.

So acceptance is not the same as approval or as liking something by me accepting my body, It's not necessarily me saying that I like every part or feature about it.

Right.

The thing is, if we look for something wrong, or if we look for something that we don't like about our body, I guarantee you we will find it.

And if you want to try a little bit of an experiment for anyone listening along, hold up your hand and just take a moment to look at it right like, and I mean really look at it in depth, look at the details, Look at the little wrinkles, the little the little veins that pop through, and just notice all the bits that you haven't ever really quite noticed before.

I can see I'm a nail bier, self confessed nail bier.

I can see little bits of my nails that are all crooked, and I can see bits of skin that don't look so great, and I can see, you know, veins that are coming through my skin that the more I look at them, the more kind of off putting they look.

Right, if we focus on anything heavily and look for flaws, will find it right.

And the same applies for our body when we're constantly getting so much messaging about how our body should be.

If we hyper focus on our bodies and what they should look like, we will find perceived flaws in them.

So that's why it's not necessarily about liking every little part of our body.

It's about accepting it for what it is.

It kind of reminds me, and it's somewhat on topic, but when you buy a car and then you see that same car everywhere, it's like, it's amazing how the power of our perception, Like, how much power our perception holds.

Yes, Yes, if we choose to focus on something, we will see it.

Right if you tell yourself every day I don't like I don't know the shape of my nose, Right, every time I look in the mirror, I'm going to be focusing on my nose because it's what's at the forefront of my thinking.

Yeah, And I would actually encourage people to go maybe even one step further than the body acceptance if they're willing to, and that is leaning into gratitude.

Can we not just accept our body for what it is, but can we actually look towards having gratitude for what our body can actually do?

So this is where we sort of shift our attention more away from what our body looks like to the function of our body.

So again I invite listeners to just sort of take a moment of pause and reflection and think about the things that your body does every single day that keeps you running, that keeps you functioning, and try to open yourself up to gratitude for those things.

You know, Can I be grateful for the fact that I have lungs that help me breathe every day?

Can I be grateful for the fact that I have legs that walk me around every day.

Can I be grateful the fact that I have a voice and I can sing along in the car to all sorts of songs when I feel like it right personally for me, I go, you know what, I'm grateful for my hands.

I love to play the piano and my fingers and my hands help me play the piano.

I don't know if you've got any Ashani that you're grateful for, for what your body can do that you can lean into.

I feel like for me my legs, I'm really grateful for my legs.

I've had a very much a love hate relationship with them, but I'm grateful for my legs because it helps me to get from one place to another.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

And if there are particular parts of the body that people are struggling with, you know, if I struggle with my stomach and my tummy, can I reframe that to go, you know what?

Actually, I'm grateful for my stomach, for the fact that it can process food and that it can keep me alive and working and nourishing and fueling the body in the way that it needs to.

And it's really interesting because even me talking about my legs, it felt unnatural talking about what I was grateful for, And I can imagine there's an element of just knowing that this is a new muscle we're developing.

We're so used to being so critical on the parts of our body, and now we're shifting gears to practice this muscle of gratitude.

So I can imagine we'll take time.

Absolutely absolutely and if we like really stop and think about all the amazing, incredible things the body can do, like think in depth, think tendons, think muscles, thinks blood cells, and you know, everything else that makes up the inner workings of the body.

We almost do it a disservice by focusing so much on just the outward appearance of it.

There's so much under the skin that's working all the time when we're awake and when we're asleep that does so much.

So there's really a lot there to be grateful for.

And it's really great that we're focusing on building the muscle of gratitude because I feel often it's only when you know, we injure ourselves that we actually start to realize, oh, I should be more grateful for this, but I wasn't before.

Absolutely, Sometimes it takes losing something or as you said, having an injury or suffering in some way for us to really recognize what we have to be grateful for.

So, how do we build a healthy relationship with our body in the midst of social media and media, because the reality is these things aren't going anywhere.

Yeah, critical thinking is what I recommend here.

Right, We're going to get TikTok reels and news headlines and stories that sell that catch our attention, that maybe sometimes polarizing, and so this is really where we need to hone into our critical thinking skills when it comes to what is and isn't real on social media and what maybe we should be taking with a grain of salt.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to look and feel a particular way in our body.

Right.

This segment is not to say that anyone who values their appearance is wrong or not good.

Absolutely we can value that.

We've just got to make sure we value it in conjunction with other important things as well.

After this shortbreak, we hear from a woman who's worried her friend might be displayed symptoms of disordered eating and he's wondering how we can address it.

Stay with us, baby, Barb Barby, I'm having a serious cristis BRB having a crisis.

We've reached the time in our episode where we answer a question or dilemma from one of you.

This dilemma comes from Claudia.

I'm really worried about a close friend.

I've been noticing signs that are pointing towards disordered eating.

When we go out, she never eats anything, and this has been how inconsistently for a few months now.

There's definitely a pattern.

If I suggest getting brunch or dinner, she'll steer us towards doing something that doesn't involve food, and she looks unwell, like genuinely malnourished, and it feels as if it's starting to affect her personality and her energy.

I care about her a lot, but I'm struggling with how to handle it.

I don't want to make her feel judged or defensive, or like I'm crossing a line.

But at the same time, staying silent doesn't feel right either.

I don't know if any of our.

Mutual friends or her family have noticed.

So should I bring it up with her directly, check in with someone close to her, or should I just stay out of it?

Claudia, this is a tough one, and I feel for you and your friend who it sounds like he's going through a really hard time at the moment.

My takeaway recommendation for you is not necessarily what to say to your friend, because at the end of the day, you know her best, you know how she's going to react and respond, you know the best way to approach her.

But I would suggest this approach care and curiosity.

Curiosity is a foundational quality that we can come to relationships with and hard conversations with.

It allows for us and others to communicate in a really open and vulnerable way.

So if you do decide to have a conversation with her, which is what I would recommend, then I would say approach it with this genuine openness and curiosity, where you're not passing judgments, you're not assuming you know what's going on for her, you're not assuming you know what she's struggling with, but you really just want to understand how she's going and what she might be struggling with.

And if your friends can feel that genuineness and that openness and curiosity from you, there's a greater chance she might be open to wanting to sort of share how she's feeling and what she might be struggling with.

So really leaning to the care and the curiosity, I would recommend you have a conversation with her because one of the things we know with a lot of mental health conditions, but also eating disorders, is that the earlier we can intervene, the better, and the conversation you might have with your friend might just be the starting point for her to talk to someone about it.

And maybe she's never spoken to anyone about her eating patterns before, so you might actually be the first person who's had the courage to reflect to her how she might be going and if she needs help with anything, you might be the first person she's ever been able to talk to this about.

And if you're not, you might just be the person who helps her take that next step.

So congratulations for being a great friend, for noticing that your friend is struggling, and for having the willingness and the courage to be able to have a conversation with her.

Good luck, Claudia, we know you've got this.

Anastasia, can you reiterate some of the main takeaways from today's episode.

Absolutely, First of all, eating disorders are serious mental health conditions, so if you're worried that you or someone you know might be suffering from disordered eating, reach out to a health professional or a GP to get the relevant treatment.

Second, it's important to know that recovery from eating disorders is possible with treatment.

Third, even if we don't have an eating disorder, we can still struggle with our body image.

And lastly, we can change how we feel about our body by practicing acceptance and gratitude.

If you have a burning question for us, there are a few ways to get in touch with us, links through in the show notes.

And remember, while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't a diagnostic tool, and the advice and ideas we present here should always take into account your personal medical history.

The executive producer of But Are You Happy is Naima Brown.

Our senior producer is Tarlie Blackman.

Sound design and editing by.

Jacob I'm Ashani Dante.

And I'm doctor Anaesthesia heronus.

The names and stories of clients discussed have been changed for the purpose of maintaining anonymity.

If this conversation brought up any difficult feelings for you, we have links for more resources in the show notes.

Around the topics we discussed today.

You can also reach out to organizations like Beyond Blue, Lifeline or the Butterfly Foundation if you're wanting more immediate support.

Next week, we discuss how to have what I call a good fight, one that's free from criticism, defensiveness, and all those traps we fall into when emotions run high.

Mamma Mia Studios are starred with furniture from Fenton and Fenton.

Visit Fentonanfentin dot com dot au.

Thanks for listening, See you next time