You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.

Poor Mama Mia.

I'm your host, Ashannye Dante.

Welcome to But Are You Happy?

The podcast for people who need a reward snack after making one call.

And I'm doctor Anastagian Ronas, a clinical psychologist passionate about happiness and mental health.

Now, over the next three weeks, we're bringing you special episodes focused on holiday season.

If you celebrate Christmas and New Year's chances are your calendar is filling up, filling up with family gatherings, social events and end of view catch ups, and we want to have some real conversations to support you through it.

Today we're diving into the psychology of alcohol, why social drinking becomes such a big part of the holidays, and how you can be more mindful about your relationship with alcohol during this time.

This is a really important conversation of let's get into it.

So we're heading into that time of year where we have end of year drinks and parties and all of that, and the reality is alcohol is everywhere.

But before we dive into why we drink, I want to actually unpack what is alcohol?

Good starting point.

I like this, I'm a podcast host.

I love that we're having this conversation.

I think it's so important.

I'm very passionate about people understanding what they're consuming and putting in their body.

So, the type of alcohol that we have in beverages that we drink is called ethanol.

It's the active ingredient in alcohol that leads us to feel that tipsy and intoxicated feeling.

Ethanol.

When we drink it, it gets absorbed by the stomach and it hits us in about ten minutes after drinking.

So if you're thinking about how long it takes to sort of feel the effects, it's around ten minutes.

And it crosses what we call the blood brain barrier, so it actually impacts the way the brain works, which is why we have all these, you know, experiences of feeling differently but also cognitively functioning a little differently when we drink.

So what else is happening in the body when you are taking in that alcohol.

Yeah, So alcohol does a few different things, especially with the brain.

So there's a couple of key pathways it activates.

One is dopamine.

We've talked about dopamine before.

That dopamine is that a chemical messenger between the brain and the body that gives us the feeling of pleasure and reward.

So dopamine is activated when we do or consume anything that has the potential to be addictive.

So that's one thing.

The other thing to know is GABBA.

So GABA.

Alcohol actually binds to GABA, and GABA is like our body's own anti anxiety system.

So when GABA is activated, we actually naturally feel calm, and alcohol binds to it and activates this system, which is why when we drink alcohol we might feel more kind of relaxed and calm.

It activates our body and brain's own anti anxiety system.

Now, the other thing that happens is that alcohol activates what we refer to as the endogenous opioids in the brain.

Had to make sure I read that one clearly endogenous opioids.

So this is the body's natural pain relief system.

So we have a natural kind of pain relief system that's activated through these naturally occurring opioids.

So when we drink alcohol, we get a feeling of pleasure and reward, We feel calm, and it gets rid of anxiety and it provides pain relief.

So if you look at it from that lens, no wonder people want to drink and feel better after they have a drink.

That's so true.

It's so nice to unpack it from that perspective as well, because we can get caught up with like the romantic side, you know, of having a drink, and it's you know, like I don't mind a glass of my girlfriends on special occasions, but I think it's just nice to know what happens after you literally take that first sip.

Right, Yes, absolutely, And as a result of all this happening, alcohol is also kind of impacting the prefrontal cortex of the brain.

So this is the part of our brain that helps us rationalize, make reasonable decisions, plan, problem solve, etc.

Which is why when we drink we have sort of impaired reasoning and you know, we're not as good at judging situations or making good decisions.

Gosh, I'm just I'm just literally thinking about when I was younger and I was like, oh God.

Alcohol leading to poor decisions.

Literally, that's the brain.

So if I just add one more thing onto that before we move on, because I like talking about the brain and body.

If we talk about the body for a minute, the liver is very much involved in processing alcohol.

So ethanol, which is in alcohol doesn't naturally occur in the body, and the body actually sort of sees it as a toxin or a poison when we ingest it.

So the liver works very hard to process alcohol to get it out of our system.

And this might be through sort of perspiration, or it might be through kind of like urinating it out, etc.

But the liver works really hard.

What we see with people who've been drinking large quantities of alcohol over long periods of time is that they actually start to have cirrhosis of the liver or the liver is impacted in some ways.

Yeah, So one of the first things I'll tell people who have had a history of heavy drinking to do is go to the doctor and get their liver checked.

Because the liver can also repair itself if we catch it early enough, the impacts that the negative impacts of alcohol on the liver can actually be reversed.

There does come a tipping point where we can't reverse it anymore, but for many people, if they have been drinking at high levels or unhealthy levels, the damage to the liver can be reversed.

That's good to know.

I didn't know that does that mean as well, Like when you were talking about how the liver's function is to excrete the ethanol out of the body.

Is that why when someone who's been drinking a lot, like we've had that friend that's how to bit like way too many glasses?

Is that why we have to encourage them to drink more water?

Is that why?

Yes, yes, we want to sort of process the ethanol the alcohol to get out of their Yeah.

Okay, that makes sense.

So when I was doing a bit of research, something stood out to me, and it was speaking on how young women are actually drinking more than ever.

What's going on there?

Yes, yes, unfortunately, we are seeing a trend where young men are drinking less, but young women are actually drinking more than they have before, which is really quite concerning.

And this is not necessarily regular drinking.

It might be comprised of binge drinking, but unfortunate we are seeing this rise.

So the gap between it's always historically been that men have had higher levels of alcohol consumption and more sort of risky levels of alcohol consumption than women, but we are seeing that that's slightly changing at the moment.

And when you talk about binge drinking, what does that actually look like does that mean when it's just they've gone out to a party and they just have heaps and then they're not having another drink for a while.

Yes, So like a kind of isolated day or period of time where someone will drink, but usually drink quite heavily.

So, as you say, usually it is if someone goes out in the weekend, maybe they haven't drunk anything throughout the week, but they go out on the weekend and they drink quite heavily.

They go hard after the break.

Doctor Anastasia is going to debunk some myths around drinking alcohol.

Stay with us, Okay, I want to unpack one of the biggest myths that I've heard recently, and that is that classic a glass a day keeps the doctors away.

I don't know if you've heard that.

I feel like so often we can insert that phrase into anything, right, Yeah, is that true?

Yeah?

Well, no, sorry to break.

Yeah.

There there there was this sort of it did the rounds that having a glass of wine I think it was red wine per day would in some way be good for your health.

Yeah, And you know, it only takes a headline like that to really kind of catch on and for people to really run with it.

Unfortunately, it's not as true as we might like to believe it is.

It's very interesting, actually, So they did some research, and this is where this came from.

They did some research and they compared non drinkers to moderate drinkers to heavy drinkers.

And initially, when they looked at the data, what they found is that the moderate drinkers seemed to be healthier than the non drinkers, and so this kind of spurred this idea that actually, a glass of wine a day or alcohol a day might actually be good for your health.

That's However, when they dug a little bit further into the research, what they found is that the group of non drinkers usually had reasons for not drinking.

So it wasn't just that they decided to not consume alcohol.

It was because they had other health conditions, or they were on medication, or they were maybe recovering from alcohol related problems, and that's why they were A large chunk of them were classified as non drinkers.

So when they compared rare drinkers, so people who do drink but very rarely, to those who are moderate drinkers, that kind of positive result went away and it wasn't the case that the moderate drinkers were healthier than the rare drinkers.

If anything, the rare drinkers showed better health outcomes than the moderate drinkers.

So it all goes to show that we've got to look at the data in the right way.

Yeah, And also like I mean, I don't know if people go to the depths of research studies.

I mean that's very people like you coming and do that for a living.

But also just like seeing how important it is to check the validity of research too.

Yes, yes, that's right.

And and the reality is is that there's no safe or risk free level of consumption when it comes to alcohol.

All alcohol carries risk.

And when I talk about risk, I'm really talking about risk to our health.

So one thing that I find surprising that often when I talk to people, they don't actually know this.

Alcohol is a category one carcinogen.

Wow, alcohol is cancer causing and it's in the category one of castinogens, which means there's very strong research and evidence proving that alcohol causes cancer.

People don't often know this when I talk about this, because what other things are in category one of carcinogens asbestoso tobacco and radiation.

WHOA, yeah, okay, wow, so that like legit things serious stuff.

Wow.

Yes, And in particular alcohol, Alcohol has been linked to breast cancer and soft for geal cancer, many cancers, but they're the kind of two key ones that it's related to causing.

And so when it comes to kind of thinking about I come back to your question about like a glass of wine keeps the doctors away not being so true.

If anything, it can have worse health outcomes for us.

And so in Australia, the guidelines are that we should not consume more than ten standard drinks per week and we should not have any more than four standard drinks on any one day.

They're like the maximum.

So it's not like the guideline to aim for.

It's like this is the absolute max that would be considered and recommended.

Yeah.

Wow, there's so much truth being dropped on.

This podcast, sorry, guys, And I.

Think that's the reality.

Like we don't want to be negative nancies, right, Like it's a bit of tough love, and also like we want to come back to the facts.

I mean, this is you know, our podcast is all around the no bullshit, so we give no bullshit.

Yes, we want to be informed, right, we can make choices for ourselves.

We also know things like bacon cause cancer, and yet people still eat bacon, right, Like it's into that.

I'm sorry, all the truth.

That's okay, I actually don't eat.

I don't eat.

Okay, there you go.

I'm good.

Okay.

But yes, it's all about kind of having the information, being informed so we can make informed choices for ourselves.

Going in the sun increases our risk of sun cancer.

It doesn't mean that we never go in the sun.

It just means that we have the awareness and the information to make healthier choices for ourselves.

Yeah, so true.

So I think a lot of the information has been really good.

But I think something I think about is the social pressure, especially around drinking.

Yes, in Australia, we have such a culture of drinking.

You know, alcohol is involved in all sorts of celebrations.

It's involved in like how we might relax and unwind.

You go to a footy cane, you might have you know, some big It's very intertwined into the ways we connect with other people.

Yeah, the ways we deal with the whole spectrum of emotions, the good emotions and the less pleasant emotions as well.

Yeah, it's so true.

And I know that feeling of when someone's like, oh, so you're gonna have a drink, and it's just this moment where you're like, oh, yes, because I don't want to feel that fomo.

But then it's like, oh, but what do I actually want?

Yes?

Yeah?

What's actually driving me to say yes in that moment?

Do I actually want that alcoholic beverage?

Or do I want to feel like I fit in?

Do I want to feel like I belong to this social group or to this environment that we're in, Or am I saying yes because it'll help me feel a bit less awkward and less anxious?

You know, it's really about understanding what's driving the desire to say yes to alcohol for us to be able to change our relationship with it.

It's so true, and it's interesting because I know you unpacked Australian culture, but I know as well, like coming from a Shri Lunkan background culturally, like even going back to Sholanka a couple of months ago and just noticing how alcoholism and just alcohol is also so intertwined in our culture, Like I remember even when I was younger, just like Uncle staying up till like twelve in the night drinking whiskey, and it was just like a normal thing.

And it's like, oh, what is that actually shaping for younger people?

Yes, and part of the kind of social norm like this is what we do.

We get together, we talk, and we have a whiskey while we do it.

It then makes it hard for people to step out of that.

Yeah, totally.

So there's also this growing movement called sober curious movement.

Can you tell me more about that?

I love this.

I love this as a concept, as an idea, as a movement because it takes us away from the dichotomy of you're someone who either drinks or you're someone who doesn't.

And I'll share a personal kind of example here.

I don't often drink.

It doesn't mean I never drink.

I just don't often drink.

I personally don't really love the taste of alcohol.

And if I have a drink, it's really intentional.

It's because I want that specific drink that I know i'll enjoy, or I'm in a particular environment where I've made a really conscious choice to drink.

I typically won't yes to an alcoholic beverage.

If someone just offers it to me, so I would I believe like I do drink.

But it's so funny because so many of my friends have categorized me as a non drinker, and they've said this to me in conversation, or they'll get out a bottle of wine or something and be like, honestly, she doesn't drink.

I'll be like, no, way, do drink.

It's just that I don't drink very much or very often.

So it's interesting how we naturally kind of fall into this dichotomy when it comes to alcohol, if you do drink or you don't drink.

And so what sober Curious does is it gives space for that middle ground to exist.

So it's really about people starting to be more mindful and intentional about their choices when it comes to consuming alcohol, and really making that an active choice and a conscious choice rather than more of an automatic habit.

I really love this because I actually didn't know much about sober Curious until we started, you know, researching for this, and it's just really nice because I'm now like, ah, I think I'm sober Curious.

I'm part of the movement.

So nice because like I'm similar, I think, you know, I used to drink a lot more, especially when I was younger.

Not saying I'm old now, but you know what I mean, back in the day.

Yeah, back in the day.

But I feel like now and it's probably only recently, probably this year, where I'm really thinking more intentionally about when I want to have a drink as well, Like similar to what I said before, like I can enjoy a glass of wine with my girlfriend sometimes or maybe if I'm on a date night with Yo, Yo doesn't drink at all, but you know, sometimes I might have a drink.

But Yeah, it's just really interesting to know that it's okay to be in that middle ground and it's just bringing intentionality to it.

I really love that, Yes, and stepping away from habits or just the automatic go to drink alcohol or just because we're around other people who are drinking that sort of automatic pool to also drink with them.

It's just sort of shifting perspective on that.

And with this movement as well, Like I was reading into it and I saw that gen Z generation, like that generation's really taking this movement forward.

Yes, Yes, there's a real active sense of choice over alcohol and not sort of choosing to maybe go out as much and have the big messy nights or binge drink or just drink for the sake of it.

So I love that there's just more of a conscious awareness around it.

Yeah, I love that.

And actually I saw something come up on my phone the other day.

One of my friends posted it on her stories.

Yeah, so it was one of those carousels from doctor Mark.

Heymann, I think I saw this as well.

Oh did you but remind me?

Yeah?

Well, I mean I was reading it and was just literally just saying gen Z is going sober.

New data reveals that gen Z is twenty times more likely to abstain from alcohol than baby boomers.

I'm like, twenty.

Times more likely.

And then it literally does like a longitudinal study and breaks down like the likelihood of cross generations.

Yes, and I'm like, this is incredible just to see that.

Yeah, Like we can sometimes, I mean, I'm very passionate about young people, but we can underestimate them.

And it's like wow, for them to be making those decisions already early on.

And again it's not that they're not drinking, and it's like they're more aware.

I'm like, wow, that just shows so much.

Yes, Yes, I think that's fantastic, And on the flip side, I think it also means we need to really think about as a society how to best care for those who are maybe in older kind of age brackets who do have those more ingrained norms when it comes to alcohol and alcohol consumption, and how we can help them also break away from those patterns.

I love that helping across generations.

I love that we're talking about different generations and how patterns of drinking alcohol have changed over time, because I don't know what was it like for you, Shany when you were eighteen or younger and kind of in that phase of maybe drinking a bit more.

What was that period like.

Yeah, it's really interesting because I don't think I had the typical I don't even know what typical is.

But for me, I didn't really go out much and go clubbing because I know, I've been with Yo since I was really young, so I think if anything, Yo and I and some of our friends we might go out to like cocktail bars, because that's it was starting to come into the scene, but they were still a bit underground, so I did feel pretty cool.

But we would go out to cocktail bars and have a lot of drinks and enjoyed in that way and then just became the new thing because it we knew bars popping up as well.

So yo, and I'll be constantly going out and enjoying that.

But yeah, we don't do that anymore.

We've changed.

Times have definitely changed.

It's interesting how our relationship with alcohol can be so influenced by those around us and how they drink as well, because I know, for me, like I grew up in a family where my parents rarely drink, like maybe a glass of wine at Christmas and New Year's like that's about it.

Maybe a birth but there's no a regular alcohol consumption or just like casual alcohol consumption.

It's very specific moments in the year.

I could count them on one hand, and so that was normal for me growing up.

Alcohol wasn't really a thing that was a common part of what I saw day to day.

But I know I've certainly worked with people who say that, you know, they saw their mum drink when they got home after a hard day, or their dad, you know, had a couple of beers before going to bed to unwind.

And so I think the environments we grow up with or the people that were around during those influential years can really shape our own relationship to alcohol.

Well, it's interesting because I mean, just talking about that.

I just thought about this one time where because I had a lot of cousins that were a lot older to me, and I was always a younger cousin and that family gatherings, like I'd always just wonder why my cousins would change as the night progress, and it was like they will get really funny and louder, and I'm like, oh, I don't understand.

But alcohol was always around at family events.

So it's just again, like it interesting to hear different people and how they were raised with alcohol around.

Absolutely after the break, doctor Anastasia is going to teach us how we can manage our drinking over the holidays and stay with us.

Now, I know you mentioned a little bit about sober curious before.

How do we actually become more sober curious to.

Like practically what it kind of looks like, because I know we talked about being more intentional with our choices, but some examples of what sober curious can look like it might be doing something like dry January or dry July.

I know dry January is a popular one after people have been perhaps drinking more than usual over the Christmas period.

But it could also be getting involved in the fundraising initiatives that are behind some of these movements as well around Dry July.

But other things could be like making sure you have alcohol free days during the week and really setting yourself those intentions, choosing to drink less or not at all social gatherings, so rather than feeling like that you have an expectation on yourself to drink it all social gatherings, choosing to only drink it some of them, and doing more activities where alcohol isn't really the focus.

There are so many things we can be doing over the summer holidays with our friends, with our family that don't need to involve alcohol or don't need to have alcohol as the focus.

So really trying to lean into those activities more.

I love that.

So I know you were talking about during the holiday period.

So how does one manage their alcohol or just drinking generally around this time of year.

It's a tricky time of year because we're generally going out more, seeing people more, being more social, more functions, etc.

Yeah, so it's important to think about how we can manage alcohol.

One thing I want to say really clearly at the start is if you are someone who has been a heavy drinker for a period of time, don't just stop drinking.

Alcohol with draw can actually be dangerous to the point of life threatening.

Wow.

Yeah, So it's a key recommendation to not just stop.

If you think you're someone who has really been drinking heavily over the past few months, then chat to a GP before you decide to make that change for yourself to stop drinking completely.

So that's just I'm just going to put that out there for anyone that might be important for if you don't fall into that category and you're more a sort of casual drinker or sort of mild to moderate drinker, I want to highlight that, like the conflict, the internal conflict to change is really normal, but there are some really practical strategies we can put in place, right So things like set yourself limits on how many alcoholic beverages you're going to have when you go out, write that number down in your phone and keep a log of it.

Don't let people top up your drinks because that is the easiest way to lose track.

It really frustrates me.

I get really worked up about these topics.

You can probably tell when I go to events and people just top up the drink without even asking me, I feel really furious.

But that's and they do it so nicely.

Yeah.

Yeah, Or like suddenly I'm talking to someone and I look back at my drink and it's full, and I'm like, hang on, hang on, what's going on here?

It's really hard to keep track.

So don't let people top up your drinks.

Don't get into rounds of buying drinks for people.

Yeah, that's a very easy way to accidentally drink more than we were intending to because we feel obliged to be a part of the next round or to buy the next round.

Be in charge of buying your own drinks and managing your own alcohol throughout the night.

Avoid things like pre drinking, make sure you are drinking water, eating food, etc.

While you are consuming alcohol, and also share your boundaries and your limits with other people.

I think a big part of what can be really good about the sober Curious movement is that it hopefully takes away some of the stigma and shame of not drinking.

You know, it's okay to say no to drinking alcohol.

It's okay to go out with your friends and not drink.

I had an incident the other night where I was out at karaoke and I can do karaoke completely sober.

I can do anything sober, and so everyone you didn't.

Get a snippet and put it on the podcast, so good.

Everyone else was drinking alcohol and I didn't have a drink.

And someone actually came up and I didn't know them very well, and they asked me if I was pregnant.

Wow, I like what?

And I was actually really taken aback.

I didn't know why they were asking me that question.

At first, I was like, why would you think I'm pregnant?

Have I gained weight?

Like, you know, what is it?

And then I realized they said to me, because you're not drinking, And I thought, oh my goodness.

Wow, Like there's such an expectation that when we're out socially in certain environments that we drink, that not drinking is kind of seen as odd.

So true.

I think if you're someone who wants to sort of take that step to either reduce or stop your drinking, particularly over the holidays, lean into the courage of being able to share that with people that that's your intention.

Yeah, that's so good that you're talking about it, because I feel like there's definitely times when people can keep offering you drinks or they question why you're not drinking, and that could be really hard, especially if like you're the only one in that social group.

Yes, yeah, absolutely, And I think the other thing I'll add to this as well is if you are hosting maybe a barbecue or a dinner or something over the holidays, if you're the host, I would encourage people to think about how to accommodate those who don't want to drink alcohol, so making sure there's soft drinks, there's juices, or alcohol free beverages so you can get alcoholic beverages that don't actually have any alcohol in them, or low alcohol beverages as well.

Just having a range of options available can be really helpful for people as well.

I really love that because so often we think about, oh, what are people's dietaries, but we don't actually think about, oh, what's people's preference for beverages as well?

So I really love that.

Yes, So Anastasia, you work in this space, what are some practical resources people can go to for this?

Yeah, so look up Hello, Sunday morning.

They have some great resources online and they also have an app that can help you track your alcohol consumption, so whether it be sort of day to day or if you're out so you can use the app to help you track how you're progressing with alcohol.

But they have great resources on their website.

If you are listening and you don't live in the city and maybe you're in more regional rural areas, there's something called Sober in the Country, which is a great movement for changing the social norms around drinking, particularly for folks who live in the country.

Love that.

And then the other one is the Alcohol and Drug Foundation.

They have fantastic factual, evidence based information on their website about drugs and alcohol.

Anastasia, can you tell us the main takeaways from today's episode?

Absolutely?

First of all, there is no safe or risk free amount of alcohol that we can consume.

Second, changing your relationship with alcohol doesn't need to be black or white.

Consider getting sober curious.

And lastly, have a plan ahead of situations where there is likely to be alcohol over the summer holidays.

If you have a burning question for us, there are a few ways to get in contact with us.

Links are in the show.

Notes, and remember, while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't a diagnostic tool, and the advice and ideas that we present here should always take into account your personal medical history.

Next week's episode is all around how to handle money over the holiday period.

Stay tuned for that one.

The senior producer of But Are You Happy is Charlie Blackman.

The group executive producer is name A Brea, and social producer is Jemma Donaho.

You can find us on Instagram and TikTok search at but Are You Happy?

Pod?

Sound design and editing by Jacob Brown.

I'm a Shani Dante and.

I'm doctor Anithega Hernus.

The names and stories of people discussed have been changed for the purpose of maintaining anonymity.

If this conversation brought up any difficult feelings for you, we have links for more resources in the show notes around the topics we discussed today.

You can also reach out to organizations like Lifeline or Beyond Blue if you're wanting more immediate support.

Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters that this podcast is recorded on