I'm John Glover.

I was Lionel Luther on Smallville and I will always always hold on to Smallville, and I hope you all do too.

Welcome to Always hold on to Smallville.

In this podcast, we talk about each and every episode of the Young Superman show that ran from two thousand and one to twenty eleven on the WB and the CW.

Unless we don't, we're back for another Superman Special, number forty three.

By my calculation thought it's Bane for the Dark Knight Rises.

I'm your host, Sagamore, and I'm drawn by from Always hold on Arrow, Last Last or What's Up Plants?

Now, this is the same discussion more or less you might get some extra on the Patreon.

So when a DC Comics movie comes out last night, go and see it early as we can.

Yeah, come back podcast about it.

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No matter how much or how little you give, we want to give you this our immediate reaction, Yes to a new DC Comics movie, because that is our mythos here we deal with.

We podcast about So that's on the patrin out now.

This is our Superman Special version of it because it's a Superman movie.

We can't just leave that alone.

Now, we're gonna have more than one episode about James Gunn Superman, but this is the first, and it is Lansonized initial reaction.

Night of just came back in the theater.

So let's talk about it.

Let's do it.

So this will be a spoiler full discussion.

There's no reason to censor ourselves, right, Lance, correct, So if you're listening to this, I'm already dead.

If you're listening to this, and honestly, don't listen to this without seeing the like, just go see the movie.

Just go see the movie.

Right.

It feels surreal that this movie now exists, you know, because whenever, for good or bad, whenever a new Superman movie comes out, it's it's a new piece of the mythology and it will just live forever.

Look, thousands of comics exists, yes, books, video games, TV episodes, even TV shows are big Smallville hello, Right, But there's something about a movie when you enter a new entry into the Superman movie canon.

And I say canon, like overall this is incontinuity with anything else.

That's that's a big deal.

Like people are gonna be talking about Superman for the Quest for Peace Forever just because it's a Superman movie for example, you know.

Well we live.

I mean I've mentioned this before, but like we've gotten to the point where movies are what matters as far as like the major art that is distributed to the world.

That is what matters the most, That's what people care the most about, and that's what people put the most level of importance on.

So anytime they come out, it is a big deal.

And that's why filmmakers have been pushed up to the level and heights that they have been recently in recent years, and that's why people give more credence to what the content that is in movies more so especially for properties that like engage with other and other realms.

They give more credence to what is in the movies than they do the other things because of the status that we've placed movies on.

Cinema brings people together.

So I mean, here we are man like James Gun Superman is here is people know we've been talking about it and the Superman specials for for the last x amount of time, and people probably want to know what are our first impressions, like did we like it or not right.

That's probably the let's not bury the lead.

So did you like it or not?

I thought it was okay, okay, that's the that's the initial thought.

Right now.

I have thoughts, but overall I thought it was okay.

How about you?

You know, I didn't hate it.

I didn't love it, and I'm gonna have to spend more time with it and through this discussion perhaps work out some of my thoughts and feelings about it.

Didn't blow me away saying, but it didn't have me hang my head in shame, saying my journey with this film has has been non existent because it's been like, oh, James guns but well you can counterappoint me here in a second, I would say this.

I hear James gun is making a Superman movie, like, oh okay, well I pretty much know how that's going to go, and every step of the way, I'm like, yuh uh huh.

Yeah, Well there was that was that was like like if you told me to picture the movie in my head two years ago whenever he said he was in writing and direct this and I saw this like yeah, like I've gone up and down a little bit, but I've stayed on the same tier.

Of excitement, interest, opinion about it.

That's that's how I see myself.

But you tell me about my journey with this movie, Lance.

Well, your your journey with it in a lot of way and a lot of respects.

I think I think you anticipated, like outright hating this.

No, I don't think so.

I think deep down you did.

You don't know me, and you just kind of stay neutral.

Yeah, I really did have an open mind about it, and I will honestly, I was so deep down I was hoping that it would bring us all together, kind of like The Batman.

And now I say that, I'm sure the people out there hate the Batman.

I mean people, there's always going to be X amount of people.

It doesn't work for people, that's right.

But I think overall, I think the critical, commercial and fan response to The Batman is very positive and has just been reinforced by something like The Penguin, which kind of reinforces that universe and people's interest and quality and that sort of thing.

So something we all get behind.

That's why we all want The Batman Part two.

We're not getting get it.

He turned into script plants.

That's great, So I don't think this will do that I think here's the thing, right, I think people I'm unsure about that.

People made up their mind about this movie already.

They do that with everything, well true, but especially something like this, right, I mean, I mean the reviews that I'm seeing.

I mean again, we're recording us.

The night of.

We saw that the special Amazon Prime member reviews are just coming out.

There was review embargos they're often are in these major films, they're just coming out.

We've kind of eyeballed some.

I haven't really watched or listened to Red And because I wanted us to just have our talk without being influenced by other other reviewers.

Right.

Obviously, you know, as time goes on and we publish our podcast and I'll start to kind of really take in what other people have to say.

I've seen a lot of super positive stuff.

I see pretty much all I've seen.

Yeah, I've seen a lot of you know, mid stuff, and I think that's kind of where I fall.

You know, a lot of people are like, yeah, I mean was fine, I guess, but I mean I was kind of hoping for it to be a little different.

And then there's a lot of like this is the greatest thing ever made, which we all know was coming.

So what about you?

What about you?

You?

Deep down, I mean, what did you want?

What did you want?

Test Clark came from.

What I wanted was to be wowed and to really love it and to be like, Okay, this new direction for this and this new iteration and this new regime of this, like to have like my full confidence in backing it has my backing.

But it's because I'm a DC fan.

But I think for me, I think I'm most disappointed in the fact that I didn't love this and I didn't like I'm not wowed because I want I really wanted to be.

But I have to be honest, I wasn't some of the positive stuff that I've seen, I get it, and I can get how how that resonated with a lot of people.

I can kind of see where where people like that are really high on this were picking up what it was putting down.

I can I can see that, But it just just wasn't for me.

Like there's stuff in there that I that I thought was cool, and there's some enjoyable stuff in there over it was an enjoyable theater experience.

But yeah, I think I'm most disappointed in the fact that I was not wowed by this and and in general, just like this is the third Superman movie in a row where I've come out not wowed by it.

What's missing for you?

And in any of these.

There's an it factor and other things that I've seen in Superman media had it, and I don't know, it could be just a me thing with that, and especially like you know, my philosophy on some of these things.

But again, like just even with movies like I was wowed by, you know, the Dark Knight, and again that's that's a hard one to kind of be, you know, to put this up against.

But you get what I mean, though, Like I'm.

Sure there's a view out there that says this is the best DC movies is the Dark Knight.

I think somebody said it in our theater.

Somebody like when we were leaving, somebody said, like, I like this better than the Dark Knight.

Better example, like you mentioned the Batman was not feeling the Batman like like when we were would like the lead up to record and going to that movie coming out, I was pleasantly surprised.

I was like that rocked.

I think we came back and we're like that was pretty good.

Yeah, I wish, I wish that would have been my feeling with this.

What was missing from this?

Well?

For why did Because I know I know a lot of our of our friends and our fellow podcasters.

I mean they're probably out there being like, this is exactly what I wanted and what what what are we missing?

What what what are we looking for that they're not giving us lets good questions?

I agree, Like, look the last two Soul Superman movies, Suman Returns and Man of Steel.

Yeah, we've both kind of gone back and forth a lot of a lot on both of them a lot over the years, right, So but overall, like we like them, they're missing certain things you want to see.

I mean it's that Well, I don't know, because I think for like, you know, the latest Superman media that I've seen that that I've been like really taken by and really like fell in love with, you know, we're or the late the latest two things on TV, which was Superman and Loess and My Adventures with Superman.

To me, like I was like, that's what I want, you know, and like and like on film some amalgamation of the two of those, right, and we talk like there's been a lot of talk about like with this Superman in particular, in this movie in particular, being like, oh, we you know, a Superman for a new generation or like a new take on Superman, and people keep trying to figure out that thing, and for me, I was like Superman and lois like, you know, threaded that needle perfectly.

This is a new way to tell the story.

It's a new way to show him and show him in a different light to having to do with unique, different type of struggles but still have the complete essence of the character and not messed with it.

And they didn't.

It was still earnest without having to be edgy.

It was.

It was still earnest without having without being corny.

It was.

It was like perfectly balanced, you know, as all things right with My Adventures of Superman, as wacky as it can be, because it's like it's it's anime inspired, so it lets you you kind of get into that realm.

The heart is there one hundred percent, and it's one hundred percent earnest with every single thing, and they balance those things very perfectly, and we get to see the things that we want to see with the character that we love in those like and here, I don't know, we got a lot of box checking of things that they wanted to do and want to want to accomplish, the show that they were different.

In my opinion, this movie kind of reminds me a lot of and like the direction they took as far as like trying to either outdo or to do the opposite of, or to make a commentary on certain things what of It reminds me of the amazing Spider Man franchise and how they went out of.

Their way to be well, you have the ability to do something, you have a responsibility to do those things.

Now this is better than those but it, like the way we got here reminds me of that.

If that makes any.

Sense, Well yeah, because they're like, oh, well we just had this and we have to do it again and you can't.

Well this this, this circumvents the origin entirely, which is a choice which I I don't know.

People see people say they're sick, and everyone says this Suca see and Crypton blow upprom sick of see in the wings that gets shot maybe right, I mean, the Batman doesn't show you the way it's get shot, for example, But there's something to be said for an introduction to these characters and their relationships with each other, which I have no context for anything.

And now we read that prequel No, I did read ABU, which I guess I think I like that better than the movie because I mean, I know Lois and Clark and Perry and Lex and all that, But I think it's counting on you to kind of just have an understanding of all these characters.

I guess, yes, because honestly, the way the movie starts out is I feel like it feels like you're just flipping through the channels and like this was on and you were like, oh, I'll keep watching this, right, I don't know.

It's I don't know if it feels like a sequel to a movie we never got, but it feels like in some ways, yes, missing things, and I don't I don't.

I don't know it because like I want to be sold on the relationships between these versions of the characters, and like I want to be sold on, like, well, the Lex and Superman rivalry, Like I want to be dialed into that, right, or the Clark and Lewis romance or Superman Lewis romance.

Right.

But it's already there and it's already how long ago that happened?

I don't know, Like I'm like, oh wait, I want that, so so maybe I do want more of an origin, you know, I don't know, right, what are your thoughts on that?

Like, I guess obviously they don't want to do the same beats.

No, but something maybe not an origin, but like how about an overture more of a like an orbiture, like than then what we got in this where we just got like a little bit of a crawl and then.

Which was a choice, wasn't it?

Yeah?

That was what what what do we think of that?

Like this big Superman returns energy with the with the opening slide.

Yeah, but then it cuts to like our introduction to this, to this and like and they also don't forget this is a this is not only a new Superman movie, but this is an introduction to a whole new DC universe.

Well, no, have you not watched Screech Commando season one or Blue Beatle the character not the movie, or Peacemaker Season one?

I just have the final seat with Justice League or one or two of the Suicide Squad movies.

Again, you know, as you mentioned, you know it's a lot of homework, and people go to the movies for these types.

Of I know, I know for a fact those projects don't inform anything in this film other than I guess Rick Flagg.

Yes, but we get that, and then we get Superman crashing into the snow after he just got his ass beat.

Like that's our that's our introduction.

And I guess it's one thing to be like, oh, we're like into the action.

But at the same time, like with this character in particular, like it's his relationships with Lex Lois, Perry, Jimmy, Like, we want to see those So even if it's not an introduction, but how about like just spend some time with them.

Doing have any interactions?

Yeah, like just existing and like having to use the excuse or stuff like that.

We'll get into that, you know, like stuff like that, which is something I was like, Okay.

We didn't get a whole lot of that.

Oh look, the book did some of that.

I look forward to seeing this.

Those are my favorite things in the book.

Yah was the Daily Planet World.

Clark Kit doesn't share a bit of one bit of dialogue of Perry White's film.

No, he doesn't.

Perry White.

I mean I we'll get in all the day planet stuff, but I just Jimmy Olsen is well served.

Yes, when we're into that these days with he's dreamy.

Like the way they established the girls like him is like other girls are off was like him over there?

Yeah, so like Lewis is even like how do you do it?

Jimmy?

So he has something to do and this is one of the more active Jimmy Olsen's than any film.

Yes, so did get shot in the face?

That was a cover name for his CIA operative lance, I'll have you know.

Was it low?

Did Jenny Olsen?

Was that?

What did they change their mind?

In the Snyder verse?

Like there's Jenny, Anyone's like, oh, they must be Jenny Olsen, and then there's a Jimmy ols You know what I'm saying.

I do know what you're saying.

Happened to her?

Yeah, some some understanding of the dynamic.

Right, And I and I think like we were supposed to like have gathered all that from that first his first scene there, but it's not enough.

I mean, he's he's him and Jimmy, you're kind of friends.

Who's he excited for him making the front page and the Lewis is like, why you sure do get a lot of interviews with Superman and then that's just an act because she she knows why, which is okay, so let's pay so in media res is not in play of this film.

I thought so, I was right about that being the first scene.

Yes, but I thought he'd be like wondering I got in the situation.

You know what we could have used.

You know what was great about the back you know what got locked me into the Batman immediately.

Dom doom doom, doom, Doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom doom.

Do something.

Okay, So you know, people thought the music of this film, go look on the internet track seven.

Yeah, for the soundtrack of the film.

People like, oh Batman's did it.

I'm like you people anyway, the narration yeah from Batman.

When I saw the Batman, I was like, I have never this is the most like the comic book character I've ever seen live action.

You have nailed the character.

Like, I think your aesthetics could use some work, but it's your one.

It's fine, Like you're you're suiting your car.

Not as cool aesthetically as some other Batman, but there's time for that, because I'm sure there's a sequel right around the corner.

So but the character, I mean, like you get locked immediately, like maybe maybe you could have used some Superman not in arration.

I don't when I'm turning to the camera like won, but you're wondering how I got in the situation.

Yeah, but maybe that would help add some context.

Because because that adds context, I'm not saying we're just playing arms your quarterback now, but they could get you some insight more into the characters because because you know, I think about this movie.

I found there's a lot of people just talking about what's your motivation?

Like like it's like Lex Luthor's like just talking to himself about you know, I don't like Superman and this is why, like okay, you know what I'm saying.

Like they just like it was pretty thick Lad's in the fortress or even especially at the end, Yes, that was that was underwhelming, that ideology off between Superman and Lex at the end.

I thought they laid it on pretty thick.

Another thing about watching this for the first time is I feel like almost every scene, like the first thirty minutes we've seen the scene the way they've been releasing scenes.

There's this one scene with Lex Luthor like in the Pentagon.

I'm like, wow, we haven't seen this at all, Like you go fresh.

Every other scene in the first no joke thirty minutes of this movie, we have seen that scene.

Yeah, either most of it in a tree or released and it's entirely randomly.

You're just mine year old business on They're like, boom, here's a scene for Superman.

You know.

I mean, I don't have to go cl on it agains.

It's kind of my fault, but sometimes they AutoPlay it and I I gonna watch it.

So so maybe that kind of influenced kind of my thoughts on it too.

I'll say this, my emotional needle stayed pretty stagged at the whole time.

I never like that, oh, here we go, because the structure of the plot is not there's not really much of a driving force, I guess i'd say not really, so you never feel like you're escalating or or barreling toward anything.

I mean, there's that invasion of that country, but apparently I mean that already kind of happened off screen.

He stopped it.

So they're going to try it again.

Yeah, So I mean did you feel that as well?

Like what, what?

How did your emotional needle move for this movie.

Didn't really move all that much.

The stakes weren't really all that high.

And also just because like there was a lot of things, different things going on, they didn't really converge all that like they kind of did and roundabout way and I want to And it wasn't sloppy.

It was just kind of a lot at once because this movie is doing a lot.

It's doing the thing that people have said that they don't like right where it's setting up a lot of different things too much.

And yeah, and that's and and and it's overall cohesive, but it is doing that and that is part of the function of this movie is to set up other things.

I just wanted to like a true proper Superman movie, and this this was I mean, this feels like I mean, it doesn't It feels like a more Justice League movie or or or DC Comics movie.

I got I don't know it movie.

Yeah, Like it's not like I can't say it's a Justice League movie because it's the Justice game.

That name is temporary, although it's been temporary for like three years.

Now, yeah, what was that like, because they're acting like they're brand new that three years ago.

Man showed them to Schopols.

We've read the book.

Yeah, I get you know, nothing was contradicted, no, from the book.

I was waiting for like something like, oh I read that book and maybe otis not being complete idiot.

That was a that was a change.

That was the book the book, thank thankfully, thankful for that.

Thankfully.

Otis very minor character.

He's just he could have been named anything.

Miss Tessmoker was a huge character in this, so that's why we kind of thought, oh, Otis is going to be end it a lot too.

But he was just you know, a real fool in the book and the prequel and the junior prequel novelization, Yes, Welcome to Petropolis.

So he was just just a guy working for Lex in this.

So that was that was good.

But yeah, nothing really contradicted anything else.

I mean Superman interviewing him actually hold up a minute pause, Okay.

At the end of the book, he's like, you know, Lois, I usually have an arrangement with Clark, can't, but he said, I can make it an exception for you.

He didn't make an exception for three years because Clark is the only person.

Yeah three years?

Okay, so what we should We should get into the characters though, but I guess ultimately we didn't think the trailer showed anything, but they actually did show almost everything almost.

I mean, like we all had our suspicions about Ultraman, which is another just an annoyance to me.

I'm so tired.

We'll get to that, yeah, but I'm so tired of these villain reveals in films.

You know, my name is Cohn, my father named me.

Tell you.

I'm like, okay, you know what, can we just say, Hey, everybody CON's in the movie?

Hey, everybody tell you's in the movie?

Right, Well, we got you.

I'm like, no, I kind of was sitting here for two hours waiting for this reveal and the same thing with ULTRAVD.

Did anyone not think that was gonna happen.

Let's go down the character.

So, so Clark Kent Superman.

Let's talk about Clark first, because it's not very much.

Yeah, Clark Kent is, yes, non glasses, Clark Kent is in it when they go back to Small Bull for a little bit.

But other than that, like he's he's glasses.

Clark kent all about it for like two three scenes, maybe two three.

You know, that's part of the charm of the character.

Yes, I've been excited about maybe seeing that again, and they just they just don't do it at all.

I mean, is they basically.

No, they didn't really do it.

I mean, yeah, he has a bad haircut.

Hey, everybody, James Gunn here.

As you may have heard, I've been working on a Superman film.

This project is so much more than just another movie.

To me.

It's a story about humanity, about what it means to be a hero in a world that doesn't always make it easy to be one.

I can't wait for you to see it.

The heart, the action, and the incredible performances from David Koran, Sweat, Rachel Brosnah, Nicholas Holt and the entire cast.

So set your reminders, Tell your friends you can see the Superman teaser trailer tomorrow.

Hypno glasses, right, I do not like that concept at all.

What are your thoughts on this?

And maybe explain everybody what we're talking about.

It was a thing that they used in the what the Silver Age, early Silver Age.

It's a it's a deep cut.

That's probably why James Gunn liked it, because.

It's it's Tom King told him about it whatever.

So yeah, so again it's a deep cut that he put that in.

He you know, we know, we know James Gunn gets off on niche deep cut stuff, and so he put it in there.

But you don't need that.

Well, the hypno glasses only clark Kin' wears, and the glasses give off some sort.

Of thing that make his face not look like.

Superman, which which to me, I know, it's like a first of all, the glasses is a suspension of disbelief.

One, yeah, Two, it's a fun performance thing.

I mean, look at Christer Reeve for example, he's the gold standard.

But the way like like everybody praises, you know, his transformations on screen, on and off the glasses all that.

We everyone's talked about that.

But then to say like, well that's dumb.

It never made sense to me.

So here's the even dumber.

Yeah, that's that's the thing.

Like it's dumber than suspending your disbelief.

But also like you know, you like if you think about it like harder, like when people are like thinking about who Superman is, right, they don't think it's like, oh he puts on glass, like they just think the Superman like is Superman.

Well that's that's the key, Like people need to not know he has a secret identity.

There's a thing in like, yeah, I've been watching a lot of Adventure Superman.

Shout out to our friend Anthony the Ottos podcast.

Another exciting episode in the Adventures Superman.

All the criminals are like they kind of they know that he has a secret identity.

Yeah, Like I don't know why.

That's shoudn't be a thing like nobody should know, Like there shouldn't be an inkling of it.

Was like, oh, who really is it?

Like they should just think that this is who he is.

But that's the thing about how Lex Luthor in some versions, like he never assumes he has supidity to find because why would you be god?

You know, why would you dress up?

And that is his ally in this that is like for Superman.

Right to me, that's such a fascinating thing about the character, and they just throw that away.

I'm like, what I want to hold on?

But Clark to tell me that something that we love is dumb and we need to fix it annoys me.

It's it's like it's like a bad version of what Christer Nolan does a Batman.

So we got to over explain everything.

And we love the Nolan movies and we love that, right, but the fact that it's like we got to explain the cape and the gloves, I'm like, okay, that's technology.

Fine, fine, fine, we always knew it was technology.

So it's like, okay, cool, but you understand what I'm saying, Like the same kind of thinking of like we got to over explain, you know what if you're gonna do it, go all in mm hmm, show us the POV of the characters.

They like, why do they do that?

I don't know.

It's such a weird thing because by the time they say hypno glasses in the movie, you're like an hour in Clark kin has gone.

He's never coming back.

You've never seen glasses Clark kent again in this film, so like you've that's such a great opportunity for a gag when you cut to the point of view and he looks like totally different, you know, looks like we'll reeve or something right, You're gonna get will reeve up in here, you know, as a cameos news reporter.

Right, maybe do that half him be the guy people see as Clark Kent instead of Superman.

Right, I mean, now that's dumb, but at least you're you're leaning into what this dumb idea.

I don't want to go on and on about this, but I just think it's such an unnecessary thing.

Mm hmm.

And it like it did noise.

Yeah, it's fair, that's fair.

But there's nothing else to say about Clark kin in this other than I guess the journalistic ethics of him writing articles about himself for three years.

Yeah, I mean, come on, bro, Like, I think it is funny that it's kind of charming sometimes where he writes the story about Superman to get the job, because you're like, who are you?

You have no experience?

I mean Smallville?

What is that?

I mean, I'm glad you're a reporter, but that those are not the credentials we hire here at the Daily Planet read this Metropolitan newspaper.

Right, but for three years?

Yeah, that's kind of suspicious, it is, that's kind of suspicious.

So and then him and Lois have been dating for she says two or three months, three months, so like for for like two years and change, like it's only been him yeaying himself and I don't know, I just I'm disappointed.

We need to get more of the Daily Planet action because.

They cast this whole they cast all this stuff characters like swath of them, and we didn't really get to see them doing Daily Planet stuff.

Like they got there.

They got to be in the in the the tea sphere.

That was it.

Steve Lombard is the standout.

Why don't have a chair?

That's funny, that was good, Like that actor Bennett kat Grant is here.

I understand why she is the way she is, but they don't explain that.

They don't tell you she's a gossip columnist.

They don't really, she's just.

Some They just gave you some close ups.

Yeah, that's that's why she's there, I guess.

And then Ron Troop doesn't even have a line, does it.

Just pops up behind a desk, gets in the t sphere with everyone.

Perry underserved, I mean he's got the cigar check and Wendell Pierce fine, yeah, but I mean underserved though, like they just all get on the teas here together and just so we can give them something to do.

And how long they've been up.

That was that was generally funny.

I really like that last the taxi in there.

So that so now they now they just know, well that's true.

Now the Superman My god, with the implications of this, because now they know they know that Superman and Lilis are a thing.

Yes, now Clark can't oh my goodness.

Ye, and the person that always interviews him gets a story about him.

Oh my goodness.

There's really nothing else to say about them.

Yeah, because you're all you're just you're just bringing in what you already know about.

Don't call on the chief.

He said the thing Perry.

Yeah, Jimmy is Jimmy is a standout.

Yeah.

I mean, I'll give them credit there.

So I still like Sam Huntington's not my favorite Jimmy.

But I can't pronounce this guy's Italian name.

But okay, Test Mercher's son from the Rights of jim Stones, did a good job.

He looks like Jimmy.

I like Jimmy.

Take any pictures in this No, he doesn't act like you know, the Jimmy.

They bought some pictures.

Yeah, you know.

The Jimmy he's most like is probably Michael and is from the first one, you know, the one who was like a character.

No, if it's just a wheeling, it's tough to be a recast version of a character.

The aesthetics were almost super Ma returned Escu in The Daily Planet, where it's like this art deco field which had some character.

I mean, obviously the d C EU everything got just very basic incorporatized.

It was like, you know, Star Labs, LexCorp.

The Daily Planet just just buildings and generic company logos, which we did laugh about the Luther Grove logo because we laughed about it being like a Division two college and it's literally on a flag like a camp, like guys come on green and yellow with this guy has some purple purple.

Legitimately it looked like you know, North Dakota football on NCAA football.

Yeah, and those are their colors too, and it's yeah.

So we're gonna understand that the Luther Korp has this camp.

It's like on the shore of the Hobbs Bay or whatever is in the tropolis, and that's where they hide their interdimensional portal.

Okay, so who in the second in the technology?

This weird technology.

The only reason it exists this way is to create the problem at the end.

So it's kind of contrived, right, like just just clean all that up.

You don't need that because it's it's a very summer turn ask for, like the earthquakes can evacuate the whole city those civilians.

Okay, right, we understand, but you could have just had super Members Ultra Man and that's like but then it's it's too much like.

That, oh that they did both man, it's the land Superman.

Retie, Well, that's the thing.

This is everything.

It's in a melting pot.

And then there's pros and cons to that.

Superman, sorry about him getting his ass beat left, right and center.

Son.

If so, Superman, you have a new movie come out.

If and it just came out, and you just get your ass.

Bet this is black Zeus on Instagram.

You paid twenty fifty watch it, Superman.

His aspy is in.

Firstating right now, you want your money back.

If Tom Welling is the strongest Superman because he pushed a planet into another dimension in the series finale of Small Bill, David corn Sweat is the weakest Superman.

Now, I'm look, his strength is not about how much he can lift.

I get it all right, there's more to Superman in his powers.

Yes, but I do like when he doesn't get his ass beat all the time, Like it's like it's one thing of as Kryptonite.

Involved, which is here too, Yes, but.

Like he's just getting his ass beat by just just normal stuff, you know, like like the like his clone spoilers.

I told you spoilers by like a Kaiju m by just buildings falling.

The Hammer of Barravia.

Well that's yeah, just in general, like just getting his ass beat and then then Kryptonite like knocks him out for days at a time.

Well, it's to be fair, he's holding it right next to him.

For like a day.

Yes, yeah, I mean I want to, like I want to do a counter of like how long we see this dude laid up?

Yeah, I don't know that.

Is that a shallow criticism?

I don't know.

I don't know, but I think it's I think it's their attempt.

It's their attempt to do that right.

You know, you know when Superman sucked in Justice League season one, when you guys ass beat, like even like even to Bruce, Tim was like, yeah, we realized and Superman would always get like electrocuted.

Yeah, like because he's supposed to be the big tough guy.

Yes, and you lose all the tank yeah, and and and so they corrected that, and like there was more balance in the in the in the in the in the seasons moving forward here is just like I think it's I think it's legitimately.

Just to be like, well, why do we folds like again, like we we we relate when we see, you know, Rocky lose to Apollo Creed in the first one and he gets beat up and he barely hangs on to win in Rocky two, because we understand that Rocky is an underdog.

Superman is not an underdog.

Yeah, you know, it's so granted, Like it's cool to see him kind of be pushed a little bit and you know, push to his limits in certain cases, but some of these things, like you like, especially with our knowledge of the characters, like you shouldn't have struggled with that, Yeah, right, it's like being a lower seed and like getting pushed like this to a seventh game is like what are you doing?

It's tough because I'm like, is this really a struggle for him or does he always struggle?

Like I don't know what his power level is, you know, you need to establish that.

You know, it's over eight thousands, Well, it's many chlorin counters off the truck.

Yeah, so David corn sweat.

Yeah, I think he did fine.

I think so too.

I mean we need a much bigger sample size of him.

Yeah, but I think he did fine.

He yells a lot, he's a little.

He's very emotional, more so than a lot of other Superman that we've seen.

Which is interesting because people say, well, he's an early day Superman.

Actually, this Superman is probably farther along than most of the ones we see, yeah, in live action, right, yes, think about it, because even Superman for three years already.

Yes, so you think you would have figured some of the stuff out by now, right.

But I guess again, I think there is a I guess, a stereotype or a narrative about how we see the world today, right, And part of that is just like, well, you know, everybody's everybody struggling, everybody's trying to figure something out, and everybody not everybody has it all together, which is true in a lot of cases, in most cases.

And I think they put that here where he's unsure, still messing up and still doing things.

And granted, everybody does.

But I think when you do it so much to a point with like you didn't it seemed like overkill in the way that they in their efforts to make him more relatable quote unquote and and make him you know, today's relatable, that was not something I vibe with.

Well, do you think we would have benefited from because obviously it's like three weeks ago, right, what if we started with him making the decision to go do this right and set up because then you like, then you're with him in the decision.

Well, there's a lot of tell don't show.

We did have a movie, Well, we'd have a very different movie.

Like if if the movie was just that incident and and the and the things around it, right, the conflict and finding out about Lex's plan for more Land.

Well I didn't think about that, yeah, country.

So if it was just like that global conflict and then and then casting doubts on Superman and then ostracizing it from society and then having the justice can realize it like, well we need supermanized.

They try to you know, do you know, do their do their thing.

They kind of realize it's like, well, we actually kind of would need Superman's help on this.

Like, if if the movie was more that, I think that would have.

I think I would have probably vibed with it a little bit more.

You could trim down some of the some of the fat on this, because there's some fat in this movie.

If you would have trimmed down some of that and had like, this is the story and the plot more localized, I think that would have I would have resonated with what.

Do you think?

I think you know, like it's like the the distraction of the Kaiju go into the pocket dimension and and all that other type of stuff.

If we if we kept the focus on Lex trying to get him out of the picture, but like, just like we had it, we had it with the ostracized of a society part right, and like, and that could have been him going home to Smallville, not doing anything and ignoring the world and seeing what that was like, or him retiring to the fort's solitude and like, if we could have had like, I think that would have been.

Plenty of comic stories like that, or episode episodes of Lowells and Clark like that where he quits for for a week or something.

Right, And as much as I don't like that trope, right, Like, I think that would have been better than just having all this other extra stuff that kind of facilitated some of that.

Yeah, you know what I mean, Well him and the Pocket does they kind of go around their way to do it, Like.

You didn't need to do the Pocket dimension.

You just do with you and birthright and secret origin by the way, and have the government like yeah, just capture him and and you know, and Alexa brings in metamorpho.

Yeah what okay, wait, I'm gonna wait that.

Yeah.

As a character, I mean I think he was he was in character anything wildly out of character other than killing all those Luther Corp people.

And uh, that's what we're doing.

That's what we're doing movies.

No, you said you saw him kind of moving at the end.

I guess kind of.

But they also could have been just like their last.

Final don't know, the wiggling of your last brain cell because he just heat vision like all these people at point blank range.

Yeah, so who knows.

Yeah, but that's but again, that's what we do in movies, and.

We have about it.

I just know that people are like, wow.

I know, but but to talk about that point though, like and I've said this before for some reason in movies with these and it's in particularly with like superheroes, in particular with with superhero characters that that don't kill and make a big point about it.

They do it in movies and like that, and for something that is a that is a universal like film language thing that everybody kind of understands what happens in movies for some reason, because we never really learned or a lesson from it.

The directors never really have.

Yeah, I don't know what that is.

I don't I don't know what to say about that.

He does make quite an effort to like even just fighting the engineer and ultimate he's like, you don't have to do this, you know, some like he makes Okay, that's good.

That's very character like that.

Am.

I was taken by him as I was with like Brandon Routh for example, Like well, but like I definitely want to see him and more stuff.

Yeah, for sure.

I mean the same thing with Henry Cavlin.

I want to see him in more situations, more stuff because I want more with sample size of the of these characters, right, that's the great thing about Christer Reeve.

Right, even though half of his movies aren't good.

Yeah, I love that we have four of them.

Yes, did the costume grown you would all seen in the movie.

I guess the real test, the real question is lance is it better or worse than the Superman Returns costume?

That's really the questions.

Let's start with the big question.

Yeah, no, right, where'd you go?

I don't know.

I like it was.

I got used to it.

Yeah, I think that's that's the best thing.

I'll say.

Yeah, I got used to it.

I got used to it.

Who made this costume?

That's gotta be a Cretonian thing.

There's no way these cants we'll talk about made that costume.

So yeah, I mean, ultimately, look, it's a Superman movie.

They got the character right.

The performance was good.

Yes, I would like to see more secret identity stuff.

Yeah, even the lowest knows.

Other people shouldn't know, now, well do they?

I don't know, like they know something.

Lex doesn't know, who knows, if he even being Jimmy knows.

We don't know, Like it's all something.

Right, they know something.

I just I just want more of that Daily Planet dynamic.

But because you have all these characters and actors, like, let's go do stuff I know, right, So, so so that's that's what I would want to see with him.

So Lost Lane Rangel Brosnahan as we predicted, great job.

Think she's very solid.

She pursuing the stories of like not just the surface level like oh, Luther Wan's Land because of this, like oh no, there's another like you know following that lead.

Yeah.

Also here an interview with Superman.

I mean, let's let's talk because that's that's their big scene.

That is their big sat so let's let's discuss that.

Yeah.

I think that shows off her journalistic prowess very well.

I thought that was a good that was a cool way to kind of do that.

But outside of that, we really don't get her doing that, and like it would have been cool to see her doing more investigative stuff.

But overall throughout the movie she's I think she's great.

I think her with Terrific was good.

They were good pairing.

They were good pairing.

Her going to the Justice Gang to ask for to ask for help was good and we actually, no, I take it back, we do see her doing some investigating.

Yeah, no, yeah, she was great.

She was great in this.

I think it was cute with you know, the whole recorder was like, where's the off?

There were some cute stuff in there.

I mean the look they're in a relationship and they're navigating early so yeah, so so they're you know, it's like, why are you being this way?

You know?

Now, I know I said this in our lead up to Hi, I'm like, Okay, he's yelling, and I said it again, He's like yelling and everyone all the time.

Now in context, as I suspected it kind of it kind of builds up to that, and so it's like, it's it's fine.

I mean she's asking tough questions that he hasn't thought about.

No, yeah, I mean her like, well, superman, I questioned myself if I went and did this, you know, so I that's that's good.

That was good.

I liked her.

I mean she definitely looks the part.

Yeah, no, she looks the part and was and was great in the part.

Not to sell her short or anything, but like as expected, she did a great job.

And you know, I've never seen the marvelous miss masal have you.

I've seen some episodes.

Okay, it's good, she's good in it.

Again, my introduction to her was House of Cards.

So it's all connected.

Yeah, all the Superman actors a loss of cards there.

Superman drops that I love you on her and then leaves and and then at the end she's like, oh I love you.

Like, oh yeah, I was expecting like an applause or something from the audience.

No one reacted to that.

There was a decent reaction, like vibe in the audience.

The people were laughing and yeah, so this is I mean, this is I mean, this is the crowd for it though, Like this is the Yeah, people are gonna go early and see it.

So but I think the crowd, the audience was very receptive to it.

But yeah, so I mean obviously she knows the secret.

Yeah, we don't know how she found out.

Yeah, I think I think that's what it is.

Like, I think we were we were deprived of a meet cute.

We were deprived of the early song and dance those two do because it's part of the legacy of these characters.

It's part of why we like them so much, right is that And we didn't really get it there, you know, And what we get from this movie is that they're kind of put it on an act like they're not together.

And then the office.

But if we had more scenes of the Daily Planet staff, we could probably figure out that, Like everybody knows, it's one of those situations where they think that they're being sneaky but they're not.

So Yeah, I think that's what I think, that's what we're missing.

Well, you made a great point about the their meat cute their backstory, because I mean, you know what really old me on Tyler Hecklin and Missy Toulik was the episode a brief reminiscence in between cataclysmic events and season one.

That's the best episode of the show.

If you know that, that's the thing that that's gonna outlive everything else on that show, that particular episode and their dynamic of meeting and and you know, just just the different the different angle on it.

You know.

Then then we usually get fresh intake right on the tales all as time.

That would have been great.

I would have loved that dynamic here, but we didn't have that here.

They're already and they're in a different phase.

Yeah, I mean that's fine, but that you lose those connects.

That's when you really grow attached to the characters, when you see them growing attached to each other.

Yes, and we're deprived that so, yeah, more of their relationship and have navigating Like okay, so they're I think mis Terrific calls him her boyfriend.

Yeah, so we're not boy We're just seeing each other.

It's the girls in these labels what an insane?

What an unhinged status?

Faces used to have?

It's complicated, bro, really hell, Like why would you publish that?

They still have that?

I don't even know, But it's like unhinged because not just it's not like you complicated.

It's like Zach Moore is it's complicated, but so and so it's like what would you what would you attack?

What was it?

Anyway?

Yeah?

The worst was again this is back in the day where it would be like some girl you like and you're you know, you're doing some research on our page and it's like, you know, some girl you like.

It's like it's it's complicated and it's like her best girlfriend, and you're just like, what does it mean that?

The worst?

That's true?

It's like is this a cute thing?

Is this?

So?

What are you saying here?

Yes?

Can I ask you about any Yeah?

So yeah, I like their dynamic.

I think they had good chemistry.

I want to see more of it, yes, which is a good thing.

It's always good to say I want more of that next time around.

So, of all the cinematic supermann lois Is, I mean they're out after Christo Reeve and Margaret Kitter, who have great chemistry.

Christo Reeve is the number one superman, Margaret Kitter top four five.

Lewis not against her, but all the TV Lowises are usually the best.

But they had as a couple they're great, yes, and so I think after them, I think David corn Sweat and Richard Broston head right after them.

It might be early to rank that, but I'm just saying, like, as far as what we've seen here and the and the unfortunate lack of chemistry and a lot of the last couple of versions, Yeah, I Kate Bosser, Ryth and Brann are not Look.

I love Avey Adams right, and we're very excited.

And she was cast as little.

I think she's great and man steel and then she progressively has less to do and becomes running around person at key events.

Yes, and then she should have died her hair black, like I don't like, what are we doing?

Hair color matters?

Skin color doesn't the hair color matters.

So moving on, Who's next?

Alex Luthor, Let's talk about a bit the most disappointing character in the film.

Let's let's talk about it.

Yeah, I can't really disagree.

I thought he was gonna be better than he was.

It was just so shallow.

I guess.

I don't know.

I'm sure.

I'm trying to wrap my head around, like what is missing?

And it's like, you know, my favorite scene was him and he's really mad and he's throwing stuff on the floor.

He's like, pick that up.

That reminded me a Stewie from Family Guy.

He knocks some stuff over.

I like that that.

That adds something that's over the top.

It's funny.

Add some character outside of that.

What is his angle?

He's just like, well, no, that's a cover story, all right.

You know.

It's the one thing they're not making any more of one dimensional.

I mean, luth Is, he's become such a sophisticated character, and I'm like, bro, are you one of the worst Lexus Like I just because there's just nothing to him, you know, there's something to attach yourself to, like his motive.

He monologues a little bit, but you never really, He's like you reflect.

I'm like, oh, someone write a Grant Morrison comic and right now and now you're just regurgitating it.

You haven't taken us on the journey.

Because it's so interesting to see his point of view, you know, I mean, I mean all this just makes me appreciate Rosenbaum more, is Lex.

Yeah, I just I mean, the dude he found something like I just like when I was reading the prequel novel, if you put him in these scenes and he's saying the same lines and just something about it man, and and maybe that's not I mean, like if they had had a pass together and Small I'm not saying we go smallvel did and I'm saying that's a different we haven't gotten that in any other version.

Yea, this would be the one to do it.

And they didn't do that.

And this is the first time they met that stupid scene in the office, which I get another scene we've seen before.

So yeah, I mean, help me figure out how I feel about this, Lex, I don't know.

It was kind of bland.

I think that's what it was.

There was no spice to this to this performance.

To me, what I've found is is comedy is the key to a point of Lex.

Comedy is the key Lance to Lex Luthor.

All right, Lance, and I have this ongoing thing about I hate comedy that adds something to the Lex Luther character comedy, Yes, because I mean you think it like Superman, lois underwhelming like Suther.

Right, Yeah, I liked him, but the thing is he had a little bit more spice to him, Like that was like I had something.

Yeah, he had something.

He was angry sons of anarchy like Luthor.

You know.

He's he's playing hard rock and making Doomsday subway station.

Yeah, because he's a master of puppets.

Come on, Okay, obviously the super Boy actually Sherman Howard's a good Lex Luthor on super Boy, right, Uh.

Scott Wells is awful and it's the guy that replaced after season one, so he is.

There's no question he's the worst Scott Wells right, Like of all, yes, don't know, No, don't do it.

Don't do it because I'm about to say the son is gonna make you mad.

I think Jesse Eiser was better than a Nicol Sults like Luthor.

I never thought I would say that, but I've come around on him.

That's why I like BVS more because I've come around with that lex u him because I really, as we've discussed, if I was Lex Luthor, that's the one I would be because that's there's an angle there.

You know what I'm saying, what is the anger of this character?

Nothing?

But it's so bad though, well it though it's a he's.

There's a lot going on in that performance, and I appreciate now, so I've come around to it, and that's why I like the movie more than the past.

That's fine, and you cannot like it, but seeing this now, I'm like, I wish there was something because the dude don't like.

I don't wish it was.

Well, I'm not saying that's the that's the gold standard, but I'm gonna I'm making a lot of people mad.

Now, that's fine, But I'm just saying, like there was something going on in that performance, that he was kind of neurotic and saying all these things like that.

That's just Jesse Eisenberg.

I don't know.

I don't I barely see even stuff he was so you haven't seen you see me, you don't page.

I am just saying.

I'm not saying that's the blueprint.

I'm just saying that he brought something to the role, which I guess I was something is missing, and this Nicholas Lex Luthor just don't know what it is, but he just that could be anyway, if that was a Morgan Edge, I'd be like okay with with a you know, like nothing about this version of Lex Luthor other than like you make us see how weak we are.

When someone just started to start reading All Star Superman in the script, right, you know what I'm saying.

Yeah, so the scene where he's smashing stuff and tell him people pick it up.

I liked also the scene where like he's playing Russian Roulette.

Yeah, and like the second shot kills the guy.

He's like, oh, it's faster.

I thought I was gonna be like just any sort of little character thing to latch onto.

There was nothing.

There was nothing like I would him just sitting like talking about his dad or something, which Eisenberg does, by the way, but like even this Lex saying that, like, oh okay, like because you can connect to Smallville, you feel in those gaps like I wanted to like I wanted to see and I think they thought this was like the small Ville likes Luthor older, and that's what I was hoping for.

But Okay, I'm just trying to figure out what is missing because Lex Luthor's one of my favorite characters.

Yeah, and I was.

I was surprised how much I just didn't care for him very much in this film.

He played a lot of battleship in this movie, though.

Yeah, when he's like controlling, uh yeah, oh yeah, that's so like Bizarro's under Bizarrow Ultraman whatever spoilers, We'll get to that second he's under his control.

Tell don't show, Like, wow, luxually knows Superman's every mobe Like, oh yeah, he's been studying.

I'm like, why don't we just why don't we, Why don't someone why don't we have like Ozzie Mandya's screen and have Luxu.

They're sitting there, like watching all the Superman stuff, and Somebode comes in and talks to him, right, and we see him studying all of Superman's like activity.

That's a good way to show what he's been doing the last three years.

You know, I mean not to rewrite the movie.

I'm just saying, like, show, don't tell, and said there's so much tell don't show in exposition because again a lot of that you're jumping into something you know three years in.

So think I tell you all this stuff, so like him, like knowing all Superman's moves.

Like eight eight thirteen, you see my favorite and then he could bond a log to I don't know, Mercy Graves or someone who you know, like you see Marcy, you know what problem Superman.

Is like, I don't know, like he's not one of us.

I just I love it when Okay, I like that line in.

The trailer see these muscles pure.

Thank you, Grant Morrison.

Yes, So I'm just I'm struggling wrapping my head around him because I I really thought, I'm like, oh man, I think, oh man, he's gonna he's gonna run with this because Lex is often due right, Kevin Spacey one of the best things super amateurance.

I am disappointed that I didn't like it more.

And I'm just I'm just trying to figure it out right now?

Are you being serious?

Right now?

Yeah, you'd let me interview you as Superman.

Sure, ready, let's.

Do it, Cronkite.

Superman, miss Lane.

Recently, you've come under a lot of fire for where some might.

It's a lot.

Today.

The Secretary of Defense said he was going to look into your actions.

That's funny my actions.

I stopped a war?

Maybe not?

Maybe I did.

In effect, you illegally entered a country.

This is how you're going to be.

I'm not the one being.

Interviewed, Superman.

Did you consult with the president?

You seemingly acting as a.

Representative and doing good.

I would question myself in the same situation and consider the consequence.

People, we're going to die.

Hey, buddy eyes up here.

Your choice, your excers, that's what makes you who you are.

Super Man, He's not a man, he's an it.

Somehow become the focal point of the entire world's conversation, but will not accept that.

I claimed your boots.

I'll go get them for you.

You have a dog, I guess.

Let's talk Aboutultra Man.

Now, Okay, this movie has too many characters, too many villains.

Why does Lex need Ultra Man and the engineer Muscle?

Why does Lex need There's just too many like sets of characters.

Like if you think about this, I mean, everyone knew Ultra Man was gonna be David corn Sweater there, Superman.

It was so funny if it was Henry Capall.

I mean for a second, I was like, is that Henry Copper because they look so much alike.

It would have been so funny.

This is another lex thing I did.

Like he was like, and he's even dumber than you, if that's possible.

Huh.

I thought that was good, good line, brain over brawn.

We kind of wasted like multiple villains here, right, I mean, because like they have taken black More from for the Boys, all right, and put that costume on on Bizarro who does not degrade and they call him ultraman.

So there's like all sorts of yes, and I'm like, what do we do?

Why we what?

What?

Who?

What?

You know?

What was what?

What was it?

What was the again?

I said off that, like what is these villain reveals?

Like I don't know, just just I don't I don't know, Like I guess he couldn't have a Superman clone walking around doing stuff?

Yes, you know what was funny is me like turns like the lights on in that room like us those are see those are little character things that make us like stick out to us.

Right for him hearing test marker in the in.

The closet, Jimmy, Yeah, but then I was kind of hoping he would have something to say.

Or or say backwards or like give us something backwards.

Annoy.

Hey, they did it well in Superman and lowis.

Yeah, yeah that's true.

Super is like, how did you do this?

And it's like I just followed you around and found a piece of your hair that that's Superman four.

Yeah, you don't do it a super strand of Superman's hair.

And he makes Nuclear Man, which now I know the hammer of whatever that's got to be a nuclear Man costs reference, right that the sun and all that stuff.

So he makes his clone and you know it's cloning process isn't perfect, so he has no free will or like, because Luther's telling him what to do all the time and all that suff and they have a speaker.

I'm like, so he's just a proxy for Lex And yes, so Ultraman if you're not aware of listeners, well you should be because Ultraman was featured in Small Ole season ten.

Hey hey, everybody listen up.

Smavel did it better because he's an evil Superman from alternate universe.

Right, that's one.

And then you have Bizarro, obviously the clone of Superman.

Sometimes like Suthor makes them sometimes he does sometimes, and you've combined those into just generic Superman clone character, which is basically you know that that Doomsday animated movie everybody doesn't like, which I actually kind of like for what it is.

That's what they did, generic Superman clone character.

Right.

And then it's to the point where it's like you reveal who he is, they immediately have the fight and then kicks into a black hole.

Yes, that's it.

So like they don't do anything like it's like it's like Talian in the Darknight Rises.

The reveal is so late.

Yes, that means nothing over.

Yes.

What was your takeaway from all that?

From all that, I mean, there's nothing to take away.

From He's just a physical obstacle.

Yes, And I don't know, I just feel like it's kind of a waste of it was.

Yeah, And I thought they were going to do something with the engineer, like how she kind of like like how when she was downloading the message that she got like you know, the real thing or like I like got some under actual understanding of Clark.

But nah, Oh, and I thought that he was going to like come you know, like you know, uh, he was gonna his influence on her was going to kind of change her a little bit, but nah, she just was unconscious.

Hmm, that's interesting.

She's there, yes, to recover this message right from Kryptology.

Well, she hacks into into the thing at the at the fortress.

I'm thinking, I'm always like, how can we streamline this?

Because this movie is too convoluted with too many characters, right, So I'm like, you get rid of the engineer because who cares?

Who cares with the engineer?

I don't know what the authority like the windows, who they are?

You know, as you know, Lex I leaving you.

That's why I turned myself doing Cyborg.

Oh okay, great, I don't I don't care about you.

So you have the access to the fortress because Ultraman's DNA.

Lex takes the file and being a genius, is able to decrypt and translate and uncorrupt the file himself.

Yes, you know we saw with some friends.

We were talking after the theater and it was like, yeah, my favorite part of Everyone's like it's this message fake.

Oh no, it's totally real.

I was like, yop, yeah it is.

With the age of a I recn fake anything.

Explore that, like I.

Almost Yeah, and that's I thought that was gonna be one of the one of the places that they went.

I could have been a double twist.

It could have been like you thought, oh it is real, that it's not right because yeah, because the heroes all turn on him.

We'll talk about that second.

But so that's something anything.

Why is there's so many set ups and not enough payoffs, And that's a common theme for a lot of these Superman movies unfortunately.

Uh so it's not not not just this movie specifically.

So yeah, that's something you hear the engineering time, and they just have Superman fight Ultra Man because you have and then this other Hammer character who just disappears because it's all inactive who it is Ultraman and another armor which I suspected because the heat vision.

Yes, I just didn't need that she's there to set up that authority movie, I guess.

Yes, Okay, we'll see if that gets made.

Uh it will.

It's part of God's Monsters.

They do mention gods and monsters in that crawl like they yes, explicitly put it.

I kind of expected the Ultraman to be like Pale, but it was just corn stone with a like a raggedy hair style and that's it just kind of lazy.

We yeah, we actually said this about the Batman too, though we love the Batman.

Like I feel like I've seen all of this, yes, like in every Superman like this is every Superman movie.

M h Lex Luthor organizes a uh international plot to good Superman in trouble with the public perception bbs lex Uther clones Superman with his hair Superman four like, so there goes with the forces of sold dude and the Superman too like this now, yeah, but there's not I mean to be there's no pock dimensions and that stuff.

And in the other movie, so fighting Kayju, this is whole new stuff.

Yes, but it's just so many of these beats.

I'm like, oh, okay, yep, yep, seen it good good, And I know Ultimate gets kicked in that back hole.

Yeah, he's gonna come back and he's done.

He's done, And then we can never do Bizarro because you've done that.

Yes, And I would want to see Bizarro in a movie.

I would too.

I want to see Mentallow in a movie.

But he gets in the book and he's in the book, Flex is gonna pull him off the shelf jail.

Yeah, he gets arrested at the end because because let's talk about you know what.

I actually liked your holes all right, let's talk about it.

I liked how she's secretly like this girl that Jimmy's sort of seeing and like she's a source of his I like that.

It was very clever.

How like you know, like you see, you're doing selfies all like the whole time, right, but you don't pay attention to the fact that like the things that are behind her in the selfies, and like she has all this information about what Luthor is doing.

And the whole thing with what she and Jimmy was really cool.

It was really funny.

Yeah, I felt like, why are we doing this test?

Smocker Again, this is annoying.

But the fact that you like made Jimmy some you know ladies of that, and she's into him, and she and these one of these girls are like, okay, you can come on to Yes, I'm gonna send you this info.

And we had to spend the weekend together.

It's like, well, how what do you mean by the weekend?

Like that we can finally be together.

Yeah, Like Jimmy was good in this.

She was gonna so no, she's kind of like Ross Webster's girlfriend and Superman three, but they act like she she acts dumb all the time.

She's actually smart, which they do nothing with in that movie.

It's like, oh, isn't that funny?

And let's that's the extent of the joke.

This is like she's actually she looks like some like vain person just getting selfies, she's just collecting potential blackmail all Lex, I'm like, that's that's pretty That's about my favorite thing in this movie.

Like, and that was like of all the things, like this movie is very predictable, like extremely predictable that I did not predict.

That was pretty fun.

I enjoyed that.

And so that ends up being Lex's come up.

And it's because Miss Testmaker has all of these photos of all his evil plans and all this stuff.

And then you know that as they're flying around on the t sphere, did they write an article about it and publish it?

And that brings Luthor down.

All the news agencies talk about it and and he he's all upset at the end, and Crypto gets him.

Crypto pulled a hulk on his Loki at the end.

I thought Crypto might kill Lex.

Yeah, broke his arm.

Yeah, so well, I guess we should talk about cryptom a second.

But but miss testmaker, you know solid, Yeah, you know, I way to go.

Yeah, you know, I I was skeptical of that.

That doesn't mean I don't want to see Mercy craze one day.

And then again, they didn't do the otis like we were worried about Lutho like they did in the book.

Yes, so I'm glad they let that go.

And he's just a guy that works there.

Yeah, some of those people working there were like who was the guy with the glasses and the guy looks like Sonny Bono or whatever.

It's like, okay, I don't even think they had names.

What did you think of the Luther corpospos just being a detachable hovercraft?

Very lex.

I thought it was cool that it was like that center thing in these two towers anyway, so hit it done without the whole interdimensional black hole thing?

Yeah, like that's only there to set up the crisis at the end.

Yeah.

And then also like I guess, like with the the people that he has in prison there, I guess that's also like a look that might be a commentary on something because again, prior to this, we heard, you know, they were asking James Gun if this was a political movie and in part yeah, but not so overtly no.

You know, I I honestly I was like red surface level with this, right, I thought that now I'm not.

I don't think we need to reflect every last thing in the modern culture, in all of our pop culture stuff.

I think there should you know, there's a place for commentary, there's a place where just you know, pop gun entertainment.

Yes, all that to say, I definitely think they actually could and should have gone farther if they wanted to say so, because they just said nothing.

I thought I thought it was.

Kind of surface level that it was, Yeah, because like you had people in these prisons that only lex knew about, right, and that could be that could be saying something about something, Right the way they talked about Superman and he was arrested.

That was a way you could say something about something, right, especially now the conflict in the Middle East, you could said something, or the invasion of one country into another, like you could set some thing.

But they didn't really say anything.

Yeah, because there are ways you can be more specific but also not be like but not like quote unquote pick aside or whatever, like you want to make people think about it, right, Yes, and that's the most powerful way to address these iss just make people at least think about it.

But this that inch level like it was just didn't go any any deeper than the surface.

Yes, And I like that Superman like when he gets out, he's like, we gotta go back and see those people, like absolute, that's what he should do.

Yes, But that was a big weird sci fi thing.

Was that a white Martian driving around lots of aliens.

It looks like, I guess in this world known about meta humans, with your unders the many human things, they still don't really.

Know what that is.

Answer Hawk girl seems to I don't know what her deal is.

I guess we'll talk about just Gang the second.

But so, yeah, that's Lax and everything that surrounding him.

I guess she's talk about Crypto Lance, the star star of the film.

I mean, honestly, have this movie called Superman and Crypto this dog?

What did what did you think of Crypto?

I mean, he's been he has just been everywhere in the market.

When I'm used to him at this point, So it was just kind of like whatever just kind of went along with it.

Did they overuse the dog?

I think they used in the amount that I thought they were going to.

Use, and I don't think which means they overused.

I don't think it was overused.

I think I think I knew he was going to be in the movie a lot, and he was kind of out of it, like we didn't see him for a while, and then when we saw him, like we definitely they definitely made you understand that he was there.

Yeah, that's for sure.

It was just kind of something that I was just like, well, he's going to be in this movie.

Here's my hot take on Crypto the super Dog.

You don't have to say that every time.

Yes, I do, Crypto the superb Dog.

I think they should have used a real dog.

You know, it looks like Crypto from the comics because they do exist.

And then when he has to fly and do stuff, you use CGI puppets animatronics, right, Okay, because there's just something about so much of the movie is like him just just being silly or you know, like you don't need a CGI dog.

Like I love animals, right, and I think it's cue when you see animals and stuff.

But you know what's you know what's super cute about it because you're looking at a real animal.

You're like, oh, look at the dog doing the thing.

Right, It's like, uh, I don't you tell me?

This is a good example of that.

But like when you see grand Moth Tarkt in Rogue one, it's like, oh, look it's it's cgi you know, dead Peter Gishing, Right, So you don't feel the same way as you feel about uh director critic.

Yes, right, because he's a guy, he lives there.

I don't Maybe that's a bad analogy, I understand.

I'm like, but like when the dog like sits on Lowis when she's trying to drive, or when he's she's when the dogs sleeping on Clark, right, yeah, he's at home, Like that could have been a real dog, you know.

Yeah, And then you see actual real animals in the movie, like, oh, that's a real that's yeah.

Well, I don't know.

I don't be too hard on the dog.

M They're gonna make so much money off crypto marchinise.

I'll probably get some crypto merchandise myself, right, But I'm just saying there's a different Maybe there was a different way to to go and just go all cgi with the dog.

Yeah, that's that's all.

Look, they went on.

We talked about maybe they just didn't go all in certain areas they could have.

They went all in with the dog.

So that was the choice and they owed it.

It's all over it.

So so more prout to him.

I think that will be very successful.

I think kids will love it.

I think that's that's gonna be the identity of this movie in years in the future.

The one with the Dog.

Yeah, yeah, the one the dog star Trek for the one of the Whales.

Yes, James Gunsuerman one of the Dog.

Yeah, that's what it's gonna be.

So this crypto, the.

Super do.

Just this gang.

Yeah, Okay when they when they first show up, I was like, uh huh.

Now Nathan Fillion entertaining is guy Gardner?

I enjoyed him.

You get white people don't like him.

Yeah, I mean we like Nathan Philly love Firefly Days.

Like he's He's an enjoyable guy.

He's the guy we like.

Yeah.

Look even though he is in the Rookie.

Uh, that's the one.

I couldn't think of it time you got me so.

Shout out the Nick who's watched all the episodes of The Rookie.

Oh my goodness on on YouTube.

Goodness, gracious shout.

We saw the movie with Nick, but yes we did, so, Okay, we like Nithan Fillian already.

He's got a charm to him, Like I enjoyed it, even though he's one of these like James gonna make a movie with his buddies, you know, and it's like, okay, fair enough, right, he was good.

But I mean, honestly though, the real standout was mister Terrific, Right, Yeah, I think, uh, he was terrific.

He did not become and was and was not a stereotype like some of the trailers made it seem like he was going to be.

It started to write and I was getting a little concerned.

So thankful for that.

They did the whole Yondu sequence with him with his tease fears.

Yeah, and that was a great sequence.

That was cool.

I mean, so was the Yondu thing.

That's cool too.

So they just did it with the tea sporism ness.

But now he was cool.

He was good in this.

Darwin from X Men First Class, what's the actors name, Edie?

We know it was Darwin from first class.

Yeah, so I guess I'm going with.

You, that's right, and I'm gonna be the first to die.

Didn't die in this though, Nope.

He never took his t off his face like that.

Does he have a secret identity?

Do they not?

But do they not know?

They don't Clark secret?

I did they do, but they don't know?

Do they not know?

His Park knows he has a secret identity, that's.

Right from that's a great part of the novel.

Yeah.

Oh, by the way, is Labellamber said?

Yeah?

Nothing, She's just a non factor.

One thing I did not like is they had her like hawk screaming in this a lot.

I didn't like that.

I was that kind of reference to jail over going.

Yeah right, but but I love the ha and she was only doing that when she was like hitting things with the mace, but just like screeching when she was like flying, I didn't.

Like, like a hawk.

Yeah.

So is she an alien or where her wings come from?

We don't know.

They show that like one scene her apartment I saw like got like a like a bird in the wall.

Yeah, but there was that one scene when they were in the the I guess the Hollow Justice where they let Isabellamer said, show off that she's Illibert.

Beimmer said, So I was like, oh so I was like, all right, cool, kudos.

But why why do we need I understand why you need her in that n I understand why you need misterrific move big Blue.

Okay, you're Nathan Fillion, so you're gett a pass for me for a lot of your nonsense.

They were like, I don't know Hawk Girl.

Honestly, I think I felt.

So random, like, well, we can't use any of the big Justice League member like who do we who do we have?

And they know it has a fan base.

The character has a fan base from jail U.

So I guess they just grabbed how Girl from that.

I assume.

I don't know, but she was the most underserved of the heroes in this, much like the I mean, much like the Engineer, Like I just underserved.

I did, Like how you know that that poor kid he was raised Superman.

Yeah, he didn't get the I think.

Greenland was like Superman.

Count make it she got an upgrade.

I'm like that's something he was enjoyed that He's stillous but haircut O let him say that the whole everything is against his vows.

We just want to do something that's funny.

Well, what is the relationship between Superman and these characters?

Because I can think going into we were like, oh, I know they're gonna be like doing their thing the corporate and the Superman is gonna show them the right way to be here.

But there's there's actually zero zero So what I don't you know what I mean, like, what what was.

I guess they're like acquaintances at work?

Clark Kent' why would he tell you do people that trust so many people?

Terrific?

How the glasses?

Okay?

I mean, like I just I thought we would establish more like what is there?

Because he's not part of their team?

Do they want him to join their team?

Like they say it's temporary.

They got j G's on their chest and James Gunn or Sean Gunn his brother who runs don't they work from Axual Lord?

That's what That's what we were told.

We're told.

But I mean he just shows up the in on the TV.

I'm shocked James Gun's wife didn't show up in this.

You know he did show up.

Do we really want to?

Do you really want to?

That's what I was like, oh no, he was on TV.

Even Clark was just just watching the world in outside.

He's just the fifth dimensional.

Was that a miscus pelolic reference?

I think that's way too powerful.

Which mixes pelic is like the big bad of Ellen Morris Final Supermans.

So you can't have him just letting Green Lantern and howt Girl do their thing out there?

It's like, are you gonna go home with this?

I got it?

That's funny, Like he we were giving him so much ship for sitting there not doing anything in that promo image.

But it must be out of context.

No, it was one hundred percent in context.

Actually, that was one of the good thing we didn't We didn't talk about that one.

But that's like their half reconciliations in his apartment, which is very nice, very nice.

Oh we see the Hall of Justice from super Friends is the it's a real building in Ohio.

Yeah, since Annie As did first.

That's true.

Aerosse did do it first.

There was a there was a sign for a big belly burger.

In this belly burger they mentioned Jitters so that some d C d C comics Easter eggs.

There last thing on Hot Girl, she killed the guy do we care about.

She killed a leader of.

I think for all the hot Water Superman was in he did he kill anyone?

Like?

Can we can we follow up on this?

Like, excuse me, Kendrick Saunders?

Is that who you are?

Six months ago?

I was just a barista?

Yeah?

Now she would have said that extra star for this movie.

She would have said that, Yeah, let's interrogate that she just marked a guy.

Yeah, He's like, you would not kill me.

She's like, it's just been revoked and belief the weapon dudive.

That guy was a little bit much of a parody though, wasn't he?

And I was like, what are you doing?

No?

All jokes aside, though, I would have liked to follow up on that, like she were like, hey, bro, like you can't be doing that, right, Like that's what we thought they would be going around doing that.

I know they killed the Kaiju.

She was like, I want to put him in the zoo or something fair enough.

He not his life, but it's destroying a city and they killed it, and that's like that's their conflict.

But when she kills a head of state, did you talk to the president of so and so?

Superman?

No, but I didn't kill him.

Yeah, anyway, engaged with that a little bit, right, but it's played for as we're joking about like nineties action movie.

Yeah, that guy was nothing character anyway.

Yeah, have her, you know what, half her kill Lex Luthor, you know, and then and then I mean, and then have that trial of Hawk girl.

I don't you know what I'm saying.

Yeah, there's stuff to do, interesting stuff if you just whittle down the cat like I thought.

I thought at some point that guy was gonna walk down the room like Mission mask and be like Laxy.

Yeah someone right, I thought so too.

You know, he just went through his black hole port.

We're not really talking about the black hole style and what's whatever whatever about that metamorpho.

Yeah, the element Man interesting character.

Yeah, it was funny Like Nick was like when he showed up, He's like, oh yeah, I forgot he was in.

Yes, yeah he has Why does he have a son who looks that way?

I mean he's happy with his family.

Yeah, he reunited with his girlfriend my wife at the end, because that's what we saw his episode in Justice Leage.

Yeah, just go watch that.

That's all you need to know.

Stag Industries, they're in that building.

That's that's created him.

So there's some connective tissue there.

I don't know why Lex has him.

I mean just because he had a son and he needed him to But we don't know it is.

But again, I only know that just because of extra.

Information kryptonite for a whole I guess he would kind of puff up.

But there's the thing, like we'll say, because he has sometheta krypto nite that doesn't is not as effective as roal kryptonite.

That's why he can sit there for a day.

Yeah, and not that because it's like, oh my god, Clark, you're gonna die in five minutes if you don't move this rock.

And now he's there for a day.

And then he created like a sore of sun.

That was kind of cool.

I like that.

The whole lava stuff was dumb though, like the whole so it's a pro tom Blake or whatever, like whatever I did.

Like when he would metamorpho kill all the guys with acids, He's like, yes, with acid and he kills them.

Did he use of his powers?

Sure?

There you go, baby Joey, buy your baby joy and your crypto super Thank you for that.

You're let's talk about the music lance.

Okay, first of all, you know James Gunn his infamous needle drops, the one in the Mister Terrific scene.

People seem to be a fan of that.

What was the song?

I remember?

See, that's the thing.

I don't none of these I remember.

We didn't get it.

Here Comes the Sun.

Yeah, it's disappointing.

Get we get get some mention of some bands that Clark likes.

Yeah, that's it's a I'm punk rock.

He's got a poster of it.

It's cute.

Whatever.

You know.

I'm a big fan of the Guardho's the Galaxy soundtracks.

I love those.

I'm kind of disappointed in this.

Now.

It's because the sound, like all all of the musics that we want to listen to, is all on Spotify.

You can listen to it free on spotif that's right.

What's Lex Luthor's playlist?

Yes, yeah, that is.

I forget.

Thank you for reminding that's thank you reminding me of that.

So like, I'm not gonna rush out, and I mean I will go listen to whatever this was because I'm curious because I I expected.

More, especially track seven.

Well, I'm talking about the songs, the diegetic music with the super Dog.

All right, that's enough.

Alverd.

Enough police weren't getting it done.

Christian really fighting that accent in that line.

So the score, Yes, They're like, they're gonna use the John Williams.

That was what I've been waiting in.

The trailer, Like I knew it was gonna show up.

No, No, I knew that they would get me if they used it in the trailer.

In the movie properly, I'm all right, they're gonna do it.

Dun it on d I'm like, oh, here we go.

They never did it in the marketing in the movie.

I even like.

So I was rewatching some older Superman movies in preparation for this, and then it occurred to me, like at the end of you know, Superman the movie when he flies, I'm like, you know what, maybe that's the end of the movie.

Yeah, if we were Dunta done and we see something and we see Devin Corns might do it, and I'm like, you know what, every Superman movie in that way, just like every James Bond movie until Daniel Curtic, Like, what's what the formula did the open with a gun barrel?

Now, because you are a plus mess.

The formula and then after that showed be all cute with it, just do the thing just in every Superman movie with that, Yeah, why not they would have Well then he couldn't be Just what was he recovering at the end of this movie chilling the Fortress.

Yeah, he's in his dentist chair and the robots are he was watching his parents.

Well I know, but why is he there just in his chair?

I guess getting some you know what, Sorry, we didn't talk about the robots.

Robots are dumb.

I just it's the Fortress of Solitude.

First of all, he's the last one of Crypto and there should be some pathos, some lone nous there.

You know, there's a scene in the cine versus Man the movie was talking to Jorel reached out his arms like how's a ghost and he's like, oh, this dumb and this is sad.

And he kind of stands there and he zoom out and you're like, oh yeah.

They just kind of say he talks to his hollow down.

He's not real and he's there.

It's anyway all that to say, you know, I'm sorry, back up, we gotta talk about the fortress stuff.

I'm sorry, I know We're going a little long here.

It's fine.

The robots are dumb.

I know that.

Did you know?

In the color Yes, I know, much like hypno glasses.

Something should be left in the past.

I think Superman robots a dumblance.

Am I wrong?

I don't want to say wrong, but I agree with you, like like it's not it's not my cup of.

TEA reason there's a reason why we haven't seen the giant Pity and the giant t Rex in a Batman bat cave right in a movie or TV show.

Even Adam West didn't have that nonsense, right, he had computers, the nuclear one of the thing that the fake Robin Ville into what a way to go go?

That was like sad, It's like I stuck with the girl die.

Yeah.

Well, the interesting thing was like even like without that stuff, we've gotten some very unique batcaves on.

Screen without.

And like it's still like you know, gives you, like the personality, there's still some trophy stuff.

Like even in BVS, which is the back gave I really enjoyed, Like there's stuff in there right now what I want to see that maybe once?

Maybe I don't know, but yeah, but I get your point.

Yeah, so same energy.

Don't have Superman robots.

We all have Alan's hoodock.

It's four Gary amusing Gary.

Michael Rooker is one of the robots.

Michael Rosema by the way of voice of one of the the Luther Corp People that the Superman brutally murdered.

Yeah, one of the Raptors.

Yeah, the Raptor dinosaurs.

It's not a Jurassic Park crossover.

That's their way of showing the Lex battlesuit.

You know.

So that's the other thing.

I thought it was Lex gonna be in the hammer suit.

Yeah, it was culture Man.

Superman, the most powerful being on planet Earth.

We finally meet.

Now as planned, I'll destroy you, and of course that reporter you always do interviews with.

Who raised you as a child.

Don't kill them too.

No matter what you do to me, Lucer, your plans will work.

Wrap it up.

Good luck with that.

Make a move Big Blue, not the l they chose him.

Let don't die.

Hi, quit messing around.

I'm not messing around and doing importing stuff.

Hey buddy, that's up here.

Yeah, wrapping all this around.

So we're talking about music in their back Fortress robots.

Yeah, yeah, whatever, it's very James Gunn to have these robots Jorrel and Laura.

Okay, right, Bradley Cooper bore yeah, maestro himself.

That's a surprise name.

Yeah, I'm like I don't know, like I understand, like obviously he was Rock and Raculum in the Guardian's trilogy and he's a connection with James Gunn.

What do you think name is Jorell?

Don't really have any It's hard to say.

Yeah, I don't either.

It's hard to say.

And it was like cool, Bradley Cooper, but.

Yeah, because because him and Laura are just in that message.

Yes, they're just in the message, and they were like we don't get to see any other context of like Clark talking to them and like forming it, like having a bond with this recording.

Right, it's grant like you know, it is the only thing that he has from them, but like we don't really get to see anything else.

Angela Seraphian as Laura by the way, shut her out?

Oh by the way, uh palm clementif the one with the antenna is robot number five?

So oh yes, yes, fight I still so he has this message that the robots play for him to make him feel better.

When he's healing, and it's this repeated message, just the first half of this message, and they got corrupted when the trans came to Earth.

Now I do like they're talking Krptonian.

That's that's a lot like my venture to Superman.

Yes, so he doesn't know what they say, but the robots are translating.

Where do these robots come from?

Did?

Did did he build them?

Did they come from the ship?

When did you build this fortress?

Okay, maybe maybe somebody who was related to Clark had the technology to do.

So that's we'll talk about her.

I'm shocked that was not a post credit scene.

Actually probably should have been.

So should have been.

This is apparently a controversial thing to people.

Me a small a watcher was like, oh, okay, I see what you did.

Hear?

So they had a message from Krypton.

Yeah, Joel and Laura like we're our planet is dying.

We're sending you away.

We found a good home for you.

We want you to make this, make the best of it, and help this and that and help you know whatever.

It's it's kind of generic enough, right, and then the second half of the message is like, so, yeah, we want you to have a take as many wives as possible and take over these weak earth people and rule them to strength.

My son, that is a very great It's it's the Smallville thing.

Put the thing in the chip and once again my friends small Old did it better.

But that's the whole thing, right, Lex takes that and shows the world and bike freaks out.

So I don't know, knowing Smallville, right, I was like, oh, this is cool now we talked about earlier.

I thought it'd been cool if it was like a double twist, yeah, where if we own we're like, oh no, oh no, that's oh god.

They really are like wanting to be like they're the best parents, right, or they're just three aliens.

They're like take over these weak people.

But then the double twist would have been no Lex Ai that and you love you.

That would have been a nice way to kind of yeah, because there's this whole like this big a man of steel.

The comic book now johns bergs Man is still like rejection of Krypton energy here yes, where at the end they're like show them's parents again and it's like it's Martha yeah and not Joel Olmorrow.

I don't know.

I think there's a place for both.

I agree, I agree.

But Small Old did it so much better because you know, in that scene in the Rosetta, one of the best episodes, the one with Christopher Reeve.

He's actually in two episodes, but no, at the end of that episode, johnth Kin's like, I raised you your force for good, right, and then he hugs him and then he kind of turn around.

Johnthan's like, I don't know, maybe so I realized that this is a good segue.

I know we started talking about the music, but that we got to talking about the Kints.

I did not like them so much.

I forgot to talk about them, and these are the worst kins.

God bless them.

They're just they're kind of embarrassingly stereotypical.

This was not a good casting or performance.

It just wasn't.

It just wasn't.

Yeah, they're they're simple country folk, I guess is what they're going for.

I guess the reason I come to mind again is because I think about the end of the Small episode, right, where so Jhonathan's like, you're here, like he's put on a strong front for Sonny hugs him and he turned your camera three six and he's like, oh, this can might me trouble and this is like the dad's like, son, it's what you do.

I was gonna say, Anthony's not.

That would have been great.

It's what you do.

It's about action, Anthony Yado.

That's you know.

I was aware of that line from you know, Infinite Crisis, but like that has like drilled it into my head and like that and I think about that now that that's action comments a man of actions, right, follow up your words with some action.

So anyway that would have even said that.

They didn't say that.

He just Uncle Bend like you were talking about like the Amazing Spider Man, right, he started talking about we went down to so and so what.

Are you talking about?

Like like would have been something that was said, like moving down to the Rosses or you know, something about Ben Hubbard in the back for I don't know, like nothing with them.

We could have just not I mean, I'm glad the kids are alive, right, but I'm like not like not like this.

They're just like stereotypes of I guess just Middle America Southern people.

I don't.

I don't know, man, uh didn't.

Probably the worst part of the movie was the kids.

Unfortunately, Like you're lou Anne, It's like, uh, Lewis like, is that a joke?

You can't remember her name?

Is that funny?

Like?

Are you guys what?

I don't know what the what the intention was with these characters Lance like and these are the people who made friend Superman.

He has a lot of good memories they see on the end, and like that part was cool.

That part was fine.

Yeah, yeah, so that reminded me that So bringing background in the music, I was like, are we ever gonna like kick it in high gear here?

With the music?

It was literally the as we've been saying that the top gun version of the John Williams theme, and it's like the whole time it was like.

Or just like a workaround of the theme.

The fanfare was there a lot.

Yeah, they never went until March.

They never used the I mean not that they had to, but they never used the Superman Low's Love theme because they didn't really have a theme.

It was just like generic, Like I couldn't tell you what any other music was other than the Superman fanfare.

When it would pop up, you know the same exact you know, tempo, the same way.

It's like, I mean Superman Return is blueprint for that, Yes, I mean that's the thing.

Right, soon as you'll have the last soundtrack, same she.

Will have the last two civil Superman movies.

I know that people have opinions all over the place.

Some of the best things or the soundtrack of Man is of steeling.

The soundtrack of Superman Return, yes, so good.

Even the soundtrack BBS, I love that.

Well, that's the best or the Wonoman thing, Yeah, that's great.

The Wonder Woman trilogy is fantastic.

I reckon watch so yeah, I was.

I was Lanceoms disappointed the soundtrack.

I mean, I'm not saying again, look at super Returns, right, I'm not saying you get cobby and paste everything with John Williams because John Abman, the composer editor of that film, took his own way.

They knew, like theme, what's the like Luther theme in this?

I don't know, don't doom?

Doom?

Is it?

I think, what what are the themes of?

And I know they didn't have anything.

Yeah, we don't have Limati's anymore like John Williams always did.

Right, but like some sort of identification.

You would think.

But I mean, I mean, look at look at the last franchise, look at BVS, right, like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Lacks.

They all had themes, yes, and they would show up in the characters.

I'm just saying, like, it's all just what what the what did Adam's Sun say?

Was the air conditioning?

Air conditioning?

My buddy out of he is a young son, he's in his early twenties.

Like the music was like air conditioning because it was just kind of there by.

The way, didn't he look more grown up today?

He's grown up.

He's engaged now, you know that.

No, Yeah, good for him.

He's a good old man.

I was like, dude, you get it all figured out.

I had nothing figured out when I was your agent and what you're doing.

So good for him.

He's a good kid.

He liked it.

He's like it was fun.

You know, he'll he'll learn.

No, I mean, look, and we'll talk about this as we wrap up here in a second.

But I mean, I think this will capture the target audience they want.

I think, so now, will it be as successful as at one?

I don't know.

That's his own conversation.

But I can't.

I can't get a gauge on anything anymore.

And it's looking at it's like the Internet or public perception who knows well.

Also I think and also maybe this might be the time to talk about it.

So like this movie overall, right, it's it is very much James Gunn but at the same time and like you could also make this argument and you can also make this statement.

It is very marvel right, and as one of the people that defends that style more so than most, I'm just gonna pose these questions.

I thought we didn't like that, you know number one, right, I thought that that was stuff that is ruining cinema and it's creatively bankrupt and all these different things.

Right, But the reception of this, and a lot of the reception we're saying is so positive.

It's like, well, does it mean that we like it when other people do it?

Or do we only or or is that because this seems like it's going to be the way this universe is gonna go if the leadoff you know, movie and project is going to have the tone that people have said for years at this point that we don't like, we don't like seeing, we don't like the formulaicness, and they get they're using formulas of of something that that people say they don't that they're tired of and have fatigued of and all these different things.

Like so what does that?

What does that say?

I think a sios often do they might learn the wrong lessons.

Okay, oh well MCU successful, let's just do that now.

This is very safe.

But but you see what I'm saying.

What I'm saying, like they they that's a safe way to do it, okay, right, but again they're still doing it wrong because Marvel took its time at Iron Man or Captain America Hulk and they built together.

This is like if the Vengers came out first, well it failed.

If they did that, it's that.

But also like again, they still to me, still have more of the secret sauce because there's is better, right, like like well because well especially the really good stuff, but like a lot of it overall is better.

Like you know, we talked about like you know, you mentioned how this movie like there's a lot of surface level things to certain things.

You look at some of the like a lot of their stuff, it's not and it's it's it's way deeper than people realize.

Even though it gets it has a reputation of not being so we just watched shan Chi, right, deeper than this.

Oh no, there's no comparaisons.

And that's shang chi.

That is a shang chee is much better fun than this, Yes, because you connect with the.

Characters and it does and it does similar things.

We didn't have a chance to connect with the characters in the same way.

And some of these other movies they take for granted that, Oh you know Superman and Relax, right they hate each other.

Yeah, but but why you know, like, what what's his what's your motivation?

Not like don't monologue me at the end of a movie and tell me.

So I think that might be, but no, I am Yeah, this is Marvel Superman, right, mm hmm okay, like what what people are like, what do you want from round of Superman movie Captain America?

Yeah, that's what I want, okay, and his whole franchise is what I would want to see.

So that's the Vibor sam Rami Spider Man trilogy.

Yeah right, So to me, those are.

Because this is like like those and those are like you know, people of all ages can watch all of those.

Oh no, I agree.

I'm just saying like that's the energy that I want and the and the approach and the tone, right, So to me, those are the still the spiritual successors to the Christal Reman movies.

So those two franchises in particular, Yeah, Sam Yi, spider Man even more so because it's a self contained thing.

Captain America is like a subfranchise the MCU, especially the First Avenger in particular.

So yeah, I mean, was this the tone?

I'm one for Superman?

I don't know.

I mean there's so many tones, like, I don't I don't get worked up at the stuff anymore, right, because it's like Superman, like, there's so many versions, you know.

I mean, I mean, it's not like Star Trek or Star Wars.

But as we but as we as we talked about like off top though, since this is the movie, this is this become it becomes definitive and that and that is the that is the issue.

Must there be a Superman?

Uh?

Yeah?

I mean would I would?

I want?

Do I want every movie to have this tone?

No?

Probably gone?

Huh well, we'll see.

I mean I mean, oh, so I mean teasing the future then?

Okay, Supergirl, yeah.

Previously Supergirl, Woman Tomorrow now just Supergirl, James Gunn Supercars.

Yeah, I'm sorry.

I don't know who direct know who's directed guy, but he casts Supergirl Supergirl so million o'clock shows up at the end.

Queen Ran Yeah, Tarkarian.

She goes and parties on planets with Red Sun so she can get drunken party and turns out Crypto's her dog, yes, not Superman's super Crypto superg has traditionally been Superman's dog for I don't know eighty years, and now he's Supergirl's dog.

That does kind of bother me.

What about well Streaky the super Cat com I think super Monkey was just a super monkey for a movie that puts so much emphasis on Superman.

Of Crypto the superher dog, it is kind of weird that he's not his dog, right, and that weird weird say oh thanks for watching my dog.

It's like, oh, okay, now I know Crypto is in Supergirl Woman tomorrow.

Like the comments, I assume he'll be in the Supergirl movie.

Yes, so I mean, well, this is the Crypto Cinematic Universe.

The k c U is what this case the K nine.

Yeah that's good they because they've already films.

Yeah, it was done, so it's coming out one way the other unless they you know back girl, So Superman has to be in that film.

We need to right the wrongs of the eighties and have him not appear as a poster.

Yeah, he has to be in the I think he will.

Right, Do you think he'll be in it as as long as Millie was in this one?

Yes?

Okay, maybe a little longer.

Okay, Like he'll be like a book in scene.

Should this have Should Milly scene have been a post credit scene?

Fast percent?

Yes?

Yes, Like that feels like, oh hey, that that's what that should be.

That's kind of weird that it wasn't.

Well, hold up a minute, wait, wait, wait about it?

Wait chisard word?

Wait about it?

What does that?

Never?

Every way?

Way about it?

Let's think about then he handshake that guy.

That's a good movie.

Yes, am implaying?

This isn't stay tuned.

So Superman's parents they're not evil ne faarious intentions.

Perhaps for the people of Earth, we are super Girl's parents in all this.

You gotta think about that, right, what's the what's the Dumbino effect of that?

Because you can't say.

Like, she what it's her story, We're gonna find out.

We're not gonna find out because this is not this is.

This is a not an origin story, you know what I'm saying.

So are we gonna I assume they would flesh out her It's funny I say, I would assume they flesh out her backstory in her movie.

They didn't flesh out Superman's backstory in this movie, So I don't I don't know.

I don't know nothing about what they might do with that character now, because you got to address that for her family line too, like what you do?

Have they never talked about her parents and why she's here?

Has that never come up?

I don't know.

I'm more annoyed now that is that.

I'm just thinking, very interesting and good question.

I'm thinking through the ramifications of having that character in the film with the big revelation about Krypton.

Yeah, interesting it is.

If I had to bet your twenty bucks, I'd say they don't address it whatsoever.

But that's interesting because the conflict between them has always been like, you know, she's like fresh off Krypton and more hardcore than.

Him, and yeah she's also older than him, but not here, not here right?

But she soon Yeah?

Okay, but you know what.

I mean though, like she she wasn't sent as a baby.

She was so okay, I mean it's coming out next year, so we'll be back here listeners as well midnight and whatever and yeah, yeah, anyway, that should have been a post credits scene.

There were two post credit scenes, yes, one which it's funny.

I was thinking, what if he flies over the Earth and you're the theme song?

No?

I remember now seeing the shot of Superman Crypto on the moon, I'm like, super Dog, I admire your commitment to the bet the uh what whats that's?

I said, that's the last shot the movie.

And it kind of was because it's like, okay, you even call that a post credit scene.

He just him on the moon.

Yeah, for like fifteen seconds, so weird in it, yeah, a little bit.

And then we get a post credit scene.

It's funny.

Friend Adam.

He's like, this is gonna be dumb.

Yeah, and I'm like, you're right because it's mister Triffic and Superman.

I remember remember these set photos.

These are the set photos of the Yeah, I was like, oh, I wonder what cool thing they're gonna be doing.

It's like, so they put I guess mis Terrific put Metropolis back together and there's a little crack after.

After like after the when they fixed the thing like.

Black hole, the black hole effect, it's like a little crooked Yeah, it's like you want me to take it a boat and put it back together.

Superman's like, oh, come on, man, Oh I'm such a jerk.

I'm sorry.

It's the animal what Yeah, I don't what.

Yeah.

That was not good.

No, no, anyway, it was nothing.

It was at least tease something.

See.

That's why Supergirl yeah post credits because she's the tease.

Yes, and it says Supergirl will return in twenty twenty six.

That's what you do.

I sound like such an asshole on all these podcast lands because I'm sitting here.

I'm just a guy.

I'm just I'm just I don't know.

I don't make movies for a living.

I don't I don't know better than these people.

So so so everything I say is just my opinion.

But it's it's just like to me, it's so obvious, like why did you do that?

You know?

So you know, we've we've covered a lot here lands.

As long as we've talked, we probably there's so much more we could have talked about, and we will continue to have podcasts about James going to Superman.

We are going to continue to talk about this.

So whatever we didn't finish here, whatever opinions may change or form over the days and weeks, we'll talk about it.

Don't worry.

I hope.

I hope it's been a good conversation.

I feel like I feel like it's been pretty levelheaded.

You know, we have our preferences and biases and thoughts and opinions, and that's what you come here for.

And then you know, you go to other podcasts and you get their opinions.

So this is hopefully we provided something of interest to you.

Guys can enjoy it.

And and and uh, you know, I don't want to what's the term yuck?

Anyone's yum?

Right?

I don't want to be that guy.

And I feel like I kind of have been that guy this movie.

And I'm sorry if i've I really do.

I don't want to.

If you got joy from this, I don't want to say, you know what, you're wrong.

Well, the thing is, I don't like that I didn't love it.

I mean, I truly do feel that way as well.

This is again, this is different from like you know, how we were or how I was in particular, you know, with like the Flash or different DCEU projects as well, right, because like with some of those.

Uh, it was just you're the one waiting for them to be bad.

Yeah, And I definitely was, and and the and the thing is a lot of those I was right because they were.

But this one, like I was looking forward to it.

I was like, I wanted it to be good because I wanted to be us to get off on the right foot with this new universe, because I know a lot is riding on it and everything on the right foot, I think we are.

The unfortunate part is I'm just not I'm just not in love with it, and like, and I wish that I could be to kind of like fully embrace that, but but I'm not.

Well.

I mean, this we can wrap We'll wrap up with this and the other thing I want to ask you after all this drama, Yeah, the last twelve years of the CU, all the Zack Snyder stuff, Cavil coming back for Black Adam, him announcing I'm back, and then DC's saying, no, you're not, even though we told you were.

All this was this worth it to get to this point?

I don't even know, man, I don't know.

That's why I'm asking you.

I don't know either.

I don't know.

I would I would have loved to say, you know what, it was rough, but it was all worth it because it led to this, right, you know.

I'm like, I don't think we're at that point yet that we hit We could be a couple movies down the worad but like, oh that was awesome, so you know.

But yeah, but like part of me is like's it really worth all this?

Like, yeah, yeah, it's I don't know, like was it worth?

Was it?

I don't know.

We'll find out.

Yeah.

So last thing I want to ask you, Lance is in the DCEU, we used to rank the DCEU at the end of these conversations.

Yeah, so we can't do that now.

No, it's the DCU and we can't even really do that.

What we can't do is rank Superman movies.

Now, I personally cannot do this for this conversation Lands because getting shot out our friend Anthony Desiatto.

I'm going to be on Dean for Gryptonite to discuss our Superman movie rankings.

Him and I are going to go down our lists to maintain the integrity of that conversation, freshness of that conversation.

I'm not going to rank Superman movies yet, okay, but you, sir are okay?

So Lance ranked the.

Superman Oh okay.

I remember there are two Superman two's and two Justice leagues.

If you want to count those.

I'm not counting Justice.

Okay, fair enough.

I'm assuming that animated is not.

Part of this, of course not.

No, we don't respect animation here, you know that.

Yes, your live action Superman movie rankings, sir, take it away.

All right.

Richard Donners Superman seventy eight, Richard Donners Superman two.

Wow, Okay, we have we have a difference of opinion there.

But do you keep going.

Leicester's Superman two.

That's where this gets tricky.

That is where this gets tricky.

Superman returns, Man of Steel, James Gunn Superman, Superman three, Superman four, of course, steal.

Steal a Supergirl don't count, but they would be down there.

I put Steele over Supergirl for the record, If you don't have some chuck you see me in that movie, yes, exactly, If you don't have some nostalgic attachment to nineteen nineties and early two thousands, NBA You're probably not gonna enjoy steal the way we do, but I'm glad it exists.

Shaft isn't steal, I know, amazing.

So all right, so that's a solid drinking there.

Lets.

I cannot confirm it an if I agree with any of those or not, but stay tuned for a deal of Kryptnite and I'm gonna rank super movies with Anthony so that'll be fun.

Okay, Yeah, well here we are, man, this is fun again.

I can't believe if it's finally here.

Yeah, I hope we I know fair and balanced is a is a charge term these days, but I hope we gave a fair and balanced conversation, right, and we'll have more conversations about it.

But this is just another entry into the cannon, as you said, off the top, and there you go.

So that is James Gunn Superman are night of reactions.

If people don't find you out there on the internet, Lance where they can.

Find you, they can find me at sir Lance last and all of my social media's and you can find me talking about all the things that make arrow arrow on always holding out of Arrow.

You can find myself and keV on Twitter at do Not Fail our pod.

All right, well, let's goin to do it for us here.

We'll be back with more James Guns Superman Talk.

But until next time, always we'll go to Smallville and all this other stuff.

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