Hello, everyone, and welcome back to people do want to know podcast.

Today's goy.

You will enjoy episode has a guest.

We've actually already had Leo Vega.

Originally from South Florida and a University of Georgia alum, Leo Vega has spent recent years honing his skills in marketing and public relations before making the leap to managing his husband, comedian Modi Rosenfeld, full time.

With a passion for connecting people and navigating the ever evolving entertainment landscape, Leo brings a unique blend of industry experience and personal insight to everything he does.

I interviewed Leo and Modi together last year and I'm telling you, I know Modi is a comedian, but Leo is very, very funny.

They make a great duo together.

I wanted to get Leo's insight into producing major events for the Jewish community and get a glimpse of a different type of allyship.

Leo's not going out there and screaming from the rooftops about Zionism or Israel or Jewish people.

Leo's allyship is in helping bring Jewish joy.

In this episode, we talk about Leo's career and his reflections on where we're at today in the Jewish world of entertainment.

Of course, we have a little fetch sesh about Jewish insta or Ginsta as well.

I feel like Ginsta has really become the cornerstone of Jewish social media.

For better or for worse, Leo's episode is very different from the other allies.

I think Leo has a unique perspective where he'll get to interact with the ultra Orthodox and highly observing Jewish communities a lot.

In a way that's some of the other allies do not.

Leo and I also discussed the dangers of extremism and the importance of preventing extremism in our own backyard.

I'll be honest, as a secular Jew, I will say that there are parts of the observant Jewish lifestyle I just don't understand and don't think are useful.

With that said, I don't have to abide by them and other people can do what they want to.

But Leo brings up an important point of concern in these communities where sometimes people feel like they don't have a choice, they don't have an out, they don't have a say.

We talked about, for example, the get withholding process in Orthodox communities I get is a religious bill of divorce that is necessary for religious Jews to dissolve a marriage.

Under Jewish law, not regular law, but specifically Jewish law, only the husband can initiate the get process, which in it of itself to me already seems wrong, but let's just run with it.

In the scenario where an observant couple gets a legal divorce but there is no get under Jewish law, the Orthodox woman would not be able to remarry another Orthodox man because she's not considered divorce.

Even if she is divorced under civil law, it doesn't matter.

So there's this whole issue in the observant communities of men withholding the GET documents from their wives, which holds them hostage in a marriage under Jewish law, even if they're legally or physically separated.

It is considered immoral and incorrect under Jewish law to withhold a get from your wife if she would like to get divorced.

I want to be very clear.

So any man who does that is considered a bad actor.

However, there are incidents where some communities really push couples to stay together because divorce is still stigmatized in these communities.

So the line of someone, quote UN quote trying to make a marriage work versus withholding the get can get blurry.

Honestly, talking about this kind of brings me back to when I talked about the bride robbing ritual in Kyrgyzstan on a different podcast episode.

Anyway, I sense that a lot of allies I speak to are obviously very careful to not say anything and that can be seen as negative about our community lest they offend someone.

And I know that I personally feel that way when I speak to people like Hannah Simpson, who's a trans activist, or Tiffany Harris, a black Jewish woman.

I would hate to say anything that would hurt someone or offend someone.

Leo is pretty much the only guest in this ally season who had the balls to be like, you know, I see this thing in the ultra observant communities and it concerns me and respect for that because it concerns me too.

And we need to be talking about it, whether it's Jews or allies.

I think you will find his candor, his humor, and his little.

Bit of sass, very.

Refreshing and entertaining, so please enjoy.

This episode, Leo, welcome back to PEOPLE.

Do you want to know podcast?

What's going on?

Thank you, Margarita.

I'm great.

We are here at home in New York City and we have a few days off from what has been a pretty crazy touring schedule.

We are off tomorrow to, I don't know when this is airing, but tomorrow we go to Cancun to do some Passover program shows, which are always interesting.

I don't know if you're familiar with Passover program shows.

So we're going to be doing two of those.

Then we come home for a little bit and then the whole month of May we are on the road.

We are going to be touring in Europe.

So we're starting in Warsaw, then Munich, Frankfurt, Geneva, Antwerp and Manchester.

So that's all in May.

And then yeah, we have other domestic dates coming up in the summer here in all over the place in Columbus, OH and Omaha, NE.

We're going to all these cities and trying to find the juice and non juice, but that's where we are.

That's what's up with me right now.

OK, books and busy and always in first class.

Always.

That's the move.

When you travel, listen, look, I've not always been this way.

It's, it's definitely a luxury.

I keep track of all my flights and 2003 I think I took 57 flights and in 2004 I took 63 or 64.

So we're averaging over a flight a week when you think about it.

So when you spend that much time at the airport, let alone like the plane itself wanting a nicer seat and more leg room or whatever, just the airport experience itself, having a lounge to go to.

Sometimes you have a dedicated security pretty line when you're on the road as much.

You know when you're sleeping in a hotel bed more than you're sleeping in your real bed, It's worth it to spoil yourself a little bit.

Thankfully, Modi feels the same way.

I have a question, have you and Modi flown on a private jet yet?

Modi has.

I have not.

There have been several gigs because Modi still does lots of private events where people have offered to throw in the jet as a incentivation, but it doesn't work with our schedule or this and that.

But it's definitely, I get all the emails from the companies that do like empty leg updates.

So like when some rich guy needs to get his jet from like Palm Beach to New York, instead of flying it empty, they sell the seats at a really reduced rate.

So I'm on all those emails.

I'm I'm always punching the numbers.

Hold on, I want to sign.

Up.

It's still very expensive, but comparatively, if you were to charter a plane, it's usually like a third or something very dramatically less expensive.

Because if you live in if you live in LA or Aspen or whatever and you have a private jet and you want to go on vacation, but your jet is in Florida for maintenance and now you have to get it to wherever you are.

You're going to have to fill it full of gas and then you're going to have to fly it to wherever you are.

You might as well fill it with people who are going to pay for it, eat some of that cost.

So I'm learning all about it.

It's definitely in my 5 year plan.

We will be not be flying commercial anymore.

But no, not to derail our conversation onto aviation, but.

No, this is useful, but I do to your point, I want you to tell me a little bit about your upbringing and how you got to where you got.

So I grew up in South Florida.

I grew up in Broward County, specifically Pembroke Pines for anyone who's familiar.

So out West, not by the beach.

I grew up there from ages 0 to 8th grade the summer before high school.

During that time, my whole family moved from Florida to Georgia and then I went to high school and College in Georgia.

I went to the University of Georgia.

I majored in public relations and journalism with a minor in Spanish.

I always knew that I wanted to work in the entertainment industry, but not really sure where.

And in the summer of 2015 I came to New York to intern for CIA, which is a big talent agency here in the city.

I was in their music department.

I didn't know anything about comedy.

I didn't know who Modi was, any of that stuff.

But I was here for about two weeks into what was supposed to be an 8 week internship.

I met Modi on the subway on my way back to my rented dorm room situation, wherever I was sleeping while I was here.

And then we went on three dates, and then I moved in and basically never left.

So that's like my New York story.

But in terms of my background, my parents, I don't speak to my parents.

My parents are very religious Catholic people, so they have very strong views about homosexuality and being gay and what have you.

So we don't really get along.

We don't really speak.

I haven't seen them in a few years.

That has been probably the most interesting part for me, being married to Modi, who is, I would say, like a community leader in the Jewish world.

Whether that happened accidentally or on purpose, It's it's is what it is at this at this point.

I always joke that I spent a lot of my life trying to run away from religion.

And meanwhile here I am living life with Modi, who is a very religious, identifies as a very religious Jewish person.

He puts filling on every day he goes to shul.

Last night we just hosted A seder for 15 people in our apartment.

I'm not Jewish, but I'm not, not Jewish.

I can go head to head with a lot of the concepts.

I joke with Modi that I was raised very from just not Jewish.

So I have this sort of mental framework to understand why certain things are certain ways and why the Old Testament versus the New Testament and things like that.

So I think it would have been probably more difficult for me if I had grown up in like a more secular household rather than my the upbringing that I did have.

So maybe it's played to my advantage, but that's my background.

Before you met Modi and had to immerse yourself in the Jewish world, did you have any opinions on the Jews or on Israel?

I don't really think it just came to mind.

I lived in my own little bubble.

I was very young.

I was in college.

I mean, I met Modi when I was 22 or 23.

So I was going.

You have to imagine I was going to and hold on just to backtrack a little bit.

When I grew up in Florida, I grew up in South Florida, so there's obviously a large Jewish population there.

I did have Jewish friends in school.

I got invited to like two or three bar mitzvahs, went to the party, ate pizza or whatever it is we did.

And but I didn't really have a full understanding or opinion of it.

So I did have Jewish friends in Florida.

I will say that took a sharp turn when we moved to Georgia.

We moved to a very conservative, small, sort of rural town in Georgia, and I don't think I knew any Jewish people there.

So my understanding of them was limited in that capacity.

But in terms of like Israel or things like that, none of that really came came into my radar until I was well into my relationship with Modi.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Tell me, how are you feeling now about everything?

Because at this point it's an inseparable part of your work, the Jewish identity, being pro Israel.

I view you as someone who works in entertainment because you manage Modi effectively and that part of his work is inseparable, right?

How are you feeling now having viewed it for an extensive period of time?

It can be a little frustrating.

Modi describes himself as an accidental activist.

You know, his humor has not really ever been overtly political one way or another.

His goal always as a comedian is to get laughs.

He's not seeking to stir the pot or poke fun at any certain group or say things that are just, like, gratuitously 1 sided.

He, as an Israeli, he was born in Tel Aviv, knows that it's an extremely delicate situation.

There's a million different ways of looking at everything.

Even meeting Jews who themselves don't identify as Zionists or this or that.

They there's so many different ways to view your own Judaism.

He doesn't try to put his audience in any one box.

I would say I think it would make my job easier if he was magically not so Jewish.

I have to take certain things into account that maybe other comedians don't have to take into account, like enhanced security, what theater shows, communicating with police departments.

We had a whole thing not that long ago.

I maybe a year and a half ago, we did a show in Brussels and they have a private Jewish security force like showroom.

And I'm working with promoters who do live events and they are in touch with the police and they are creating security plans, what have you.

But no one, and this is maybe my fault, but I didn't know that exists.

No one was in touch with this showroom group.

And so they traditionally provide all of the security for Jewish events happening in the city.

And they posted on their Facebook group because they were getting so many questions.

Hey, by the way, we know this Modi event is happening tonight.

We're not going to be there.

Which was a huge mistake on their part because it's one thing to not be providing security for an event.

It's another thing to publicize it and advertise it.

So I got into a fight with, I was had a very tense phone call with whoever was in charge of that group there.

But that's not something that most comedians need to handle or navigate or deal with.

And of course, the most frustrating part of that whole thing was that I did have security there.

I had undercover police officers in the audience.

I had people, We had security there.

I just couldn't publicize, like all of our security plans or that kind of defeats the purpose of how we're making this event secure.

But people were scared, and you have to.

It was shortly after October 7th.

So you have to understand where people are coming from.

But before we started recording, you were mentioning Jude.

How did you say it, Jude?

Jew talk.

Jewish insta.

Jewish insta.

So I have a lot of views on this and maybe this is gonna get me in trouble, But as a non Jew who obviously works with a very prominent Jewish person, Modi, and interacts with a lot of Jewish people, I've been to Israel six or seven Times Now.

I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I think compared to your average non Jew, I do know more than the average person.

Our goal for Modi online in his online presence is always to bring laughter.

So whether there's a conflict in Israel happening, whether there's rocket sirens going off here and there, whether they just found out new information about a certain bombing or a certain terrorists, there are certain influencers who I think do important work like Michael Rapaport or those types of people who we love.

He's a good friend of ours.

I think he does a good job of harnessing that anger and also educating people about what's happening.

We try not to do that with and we made a very conscious decision early on.

That's not what our page was for.

Our page is to get people to come out to shows, have a good time, I'm laugh, be with a community who supports them.

And that's Modis way of being an activist right now.

He doesn't feel the need to educate people.

Well, the War of 1948 or the Six Day War and this mandate and that mandate, like we're not historians.

We're not.

He's a comedian.

And so that gets a little frustrating because there are people who think that Modi should be doing a lot more of let's say what the Michael Rappaports of the world are doing, what the Noah Tishbes of the world are doing.

And that's just simply not his Forte.

So we're trying to create environments where people, like I said, feel safe to come out.

They laugh, they're being subjected to these horrible 24 hour news cycles.

And that's why the name of the tour is called Pause for Laughter, because his fan base especially needs an hour to just not think about it for a second to to relax.

I get frustrated because I get DMS from people.

I'm more in the DMS and the comments than Modi is.

People say, why aren't you?

You know, you have a platform.

You should be speaking more about this specific hostage or this specific situation or look at what this one politician in Israel did.

And why aren't you doing that?

And I don't think that's fair to put on a comedian because at the same time, anytime any comedian, Jewish or not, expresses any sort of political view, that is not comedy, that is not a joke.

The first thing out of their followers mouths is your comedians stick to comedy.

Stay away from politics.

We see it all the time.

I see it all the time in the podcast that we do together, if we even venture into the slightest political conversation.

And again, we're not taking hardline stances on any of these issues.

We always get comments.

You know, I listen to your podcast to not think about politics.

You should really keep it just to stick to what, you know, stick to comedy, which I think is a extremely condescending.

He can talk about whatever he wants.

If our strategy is that we're focusing on comedy, that's one thing.

But no one's forcing you to listen to the podcast.

But it's a difficult thing to balance as a comedian specifically and as a Jewish Israeli comedian right now.

I will say, to go full circle back to your Ginsa comment, there are certain people who I will not name names that I don't align with the way they are going about getting the message out, so to speak.

I think that I mentioned Michael Rappaport earlier and I don't really put him in this category because I think he is ultimately funny in some ways and does, yes, he gets riled up and screams at the camera and whatever, but he's good at speaking to what's going on.

There's another side of that.

People who have a large following of a strong platform who feel the need to just stir the pot and to just say really inflammatory things, pro Israel, but very inflammatory things.

And I don't think that method of activism is winning hearts and minds of anyone else who's on the other side.

I think if anything, if you're a student attending a pro Palestinian encampment at one of these colleges, if you see some of the things that these people are posting or talking about, if anything, I just think it galvanizes and radicalizes them even more.

I think people need to be very careful with what they're putting online and ultimately making sure that they're not speaking into a bubble echo chamber because I think that's what's happening.

I think these people are saying really inflammatory, riled up statements about what's happening in the Middle East.

But who are you speaking to?

Your audience are Jews living in metropolitan areas mostly.

They're on your side.

You're not educating, You're not reaching across the aisle and winning hearts and minds of anyone who disagrees with you.

You're just praying on the anger and frustration that exists within the Jewish community already.

And I don't think that's the most productive way of going about it.

And so I've had to make decisions about certain publications or certain people who want to reach out and do content with Modi or you, I think do a good job of not doing this, but podcast interviews, etcetera.

I, I try to really filter people, see what they're really their position is.

And if this is going to be a productive conversation, because all day long, this conflict has been happening for thousands of years.

And you know, I don't think we're going to solve it tomorrow.

I want to avoid on praying and leveraging fear and angry.

Anger as a way of establishing a fan base, if that makes sense.

And that's a very long, long winded way of putting it, but I hope that makes sense.

I think you're spot on, and I'll say a few things.

First things first, I think I have the same exact philosophy as you and Modi about how my page will live over the course of time.

I don't report on current affairs.

I'm not a source of news.

I interview remarkable Jewish people, and this is very important to me because these stories need to withstand the the test of time, and they will be much larger and survive far beyond the latest thing Ben Veer said or the latest encampment at Columbia or protest at Columbia or Mahmoud Khalil's deportation.

Like one day we're not going to remember these incidents.

But what I create aims to be something memorable because each of these small events will not withstand the test of time, and that's really important to me.

The second thing I want to add is, unlike the conflict that we saw in 2020 or maybe 2021, where there was that issue with Gaza and Israel that died after a few weeks, this war created an industry of Jewish content.

It created jobs.

It.

Created payrolls, right?

Yeah, just like we see in journalism.

There's TMZ and then there's Time magazine.

They're not created equal and neither are content creators.

There's a group of content creators that's like the McDonald's of content.

And then there's the group that's Michelin star rated restaurants and all these grievances that people consuming media have, like you don't have to follow anybody you don't want to follow.

You can go find the creators, represent your views, or give you information in a way that you think is appropriate.

It's a growing pain for our community to accept this changing dynamic that Jewish content, educational content on Israel is going through an industrialization and very.

Would be change and I completely agree.

And I think, yes, there's been an industry and payrolls and people making money off of all of this stuff.

And you have to be very careful.

And if as the Jewish people, your goal is to just speak to Jews, that's one thing.

Again, if you're trying to change hearts and minds, I don't think a lot of the ways people are going about doing that right now.

I don't think a TikTok influencer walking through Washington Square Park putting students on the spot and asking them questions about the geography of the Middle East or politics and that they don't know, that most people don't know and making them look stupid online and getting clicks and going viral off of that.

Who's that for?

What content is that serving?

Look at these dumb kids.

They don't even know what they're talking about, so talk to them.

How are they supposed to know?

Now their only perception of this conflict is some asshole came up to me in Washington Square Park and put a microphone in my face and started asking me about from the river to the sea.

Which river and which sea?

Of course, yes.

Is that a fair question?

Yes.

But is, is making people feel stupid the best way of going about bridge, you know, building bridges?

I don't think it is.

But I think Jewish creators are in a very precarious place, and they need to be very conscious about how they are portraying the other side.

Because I do think that like, for example, this whole thing with Hannah Einbinder.

Are you familiar?

Yeah, her speech that got a lot of criticism from Jews because it wasn't sufficiently supportive of Israel.

Also, she's never said anything about the conflict really until that speech.

Sure.

But like, people got so upset, so upset, which rightfully so.

I'm not saying you're not allowed to be upset at certain things, but like, let's take a step back and think, is Hannah Einbinder a Jewish woman?

To my understanding, a queer Jewish woman?

Is she the enemy?

Is that the enemy?

Is that where we want to be putting all of our?

I saw so many posts, so many blog posts, so many Instagram things just trashing her and she's a member of the community technically.

So when you have such a strong backlash to someone who displays A misguided, let's say it's a misguided opinion.

Maybe she doesn't have all the information, maybe she does whatever.

If if your first response is a community at your first knee jerk reaction as a community to someone within your own community who doesn't align with you 100% on all of these issues is to just tear them down and write horrible think pieces and open letters to them and make videos about them.

Again, who is that for?

If anything, anyone who is on again, the other side is seeing this and being like, these people are vicious.

And I think of course that brings me into a sticky topic where the Jews always have to be demure and we have to like they have to shrink themselves and they have to make themselves as palatable as possible.

And that's not what I'm saying.

And I understand that there's a nuance there.

It can be scaled back a little bit if that makes sense.

This is a weird thing.

I agree.

It's delicate because you have to find the sweet spot where you can be assertive without turning people away.

And I'm going to challenge you on this a little bit as a Jewish person.

There is a movement in Hollywood and in general like these liberal woke Jews, where we don't want to ostracize them further, but the way in which they speak about us is actually harming to all Jewish people, them included.

And so there's this idea that us Jews who feel a certain way, 95% of Jews who feel in support of Israel and who want to bring the hostages home.

We need to stop.

Accepting crumbs from the 5% of Jews who don't advocate for us effectively.

And at some point, if they need to be ostracized, then so be it, because what they're advocating for is harmful to us.

And I think that's where the anger comes from.

Now, am I the type of person that's going to go waste 3 hours of my life to make a real trashing Hannah EIN Binder or whatever?

Of course not.

Like there are better things to do with your time.

There are more productive things to do with your time.

But I did go comment on it and my comment got a lot of likes, no?

I definitely like the way you put.

I definitely like the way you phrased it.

I yes, you should be.

You just shouldn't have to accept crumbs.

I just think that for the same reason why Modi doesn't get super political and talk about current events and what's happening in Israel.

And this is how many rocket strikes happened yesterday and every the.

It's because he's not in, he's not an expert and.

That's the difference.

She claims she is because she went out of her way, her speech to talk about it.

And when you open yourself up, do that, be prepared for people to speak up.

Yeah.

She didn't have to make a political statement.

That's part of the speech.

She didn't.

But let's say, let's say she didn't do a political statement, she would have gotten almost just as much backlash for being like, oh, I think so.

I think that's where we are, I think.

That's where we are backlash for being like you were up there talking to thousands of people and you didn't even say anything about.

A lose, lose situation, yeah, but that's creating a.

Morally wrong, like it is improper to.

That's a less moral position.

That's for me.

It's more wrong that somebody says the wrong thing in front of an audience than if they say nothing at all.

I guess I need to refit.

I did watch what she said I need to I but I haven't rewatched it.

I should probably rewatch it, but I just think that like is Hannah Einbinder like our?

I keep using R and I don't.

The hill to die on.

Is that the hill?

Yeah.

That we're willing to die on?

Is she the expert and the hero and voice of reason we all need?

No.

I love her.

And hacks, if you're watching this, you're great.

But I don't know.

It's, I think people have to be very careful with who they're putting on a pedestal, what issues they're taking with what they're saying, because it becomes this catch 22 thing.

And I, I see it with Modi, like I said earlier, whenever something happens.

Why aren't you talking about this?

Why aren't you using your platform?

I'm so disappointed in you.

I see.

And then the minute we say something remotely political in the podcast for like 2 seconds and it's usually for me, not even Modi.

They're like, you know, I TuneIn not to hear about any of this stuff.

So it's like you can't for entertain for people who work in entertainment.

It's different if you're a journalist or like a Brooke Goldstein who has written books and has advanced academic degrees in the Middle East conflict.

But like Hannah Einbeiter, an actress, or Modi who's a stand up comedian, Like why are we putting them in this position to speak for all of these people to these super complicated topics that they're not going to be solved anytime soon?

I agree with you.

My take on it as at that point the morally correct thing is to refrain from speaking.

If you don't feel equipped to speak, don't speak.

And I'd like to apply the reasonable person principle.

This is a classic principle in the legal system.

When you learn about law, you often answer legal questions as what would a reasonable person do?

Could a reasonable person figure this out?

What would a reasonable person think given this information?

And that's the principle that I tried to run my social media by.

And so a reasonable person who sees somebody in Hollywood go out of their way to speak awkwardly about the conflict would probably speak up.

But a reasonable person, when somebody does not speak up, should not be frustrated.

And that's the difference.

But I don't think I think.

We're It's just not how it.

Works.

I think we're past the point of people being reasonable, unfortunately.

Fact.

Unfortunately.

I'm curious to know, you're obviously acquainted with many non Jewish people.

Have there been any difficult conversations that you've had where you've been able to breakthrough to people?

I don't think it's my job.

I think my I am gay.

I'm living in New York City.

I'm living in a big metropolitan area.

I have friends of all shapes, sizes, colors, political beliefs from all different sides of the spectrum.

I do think a lot of them are misguided.

When I see a friend posting a GoFundMe for a hospital in Gaza, I want to send them a message and be like, do you really think this money is going to a hospital in Gaza, or is it going to Hamas's pockets?

But that's not my job.

That's their journey.

I think people see me in my proximity, in my relationship with Modi, and they assume a lot of my political beliefs.

So if they disagree with me on them, they're not going to bring it up in front of me.

No one has been combative or like cornering me at a cocktail party being like and you, no one's doing that to me.

There's nightclubs here in New York City, in Brooklyn who have hosted pro Palestinian dance nights to raise money for Palestine.

And I have.

These are people who I've I go out and dance with that I have fun with.

Are they organizing anything for the hostages?

No, it's very much 1 sided.

And that's goes into the whole other conversation of Queers for Palestine.

And like this whole phenomenon that I've been not able to process of people in the LGBTQ community fully aligning themselves without any question or hesitation to a certain side of the conflict without really looking at both sides there.

But yeah, I don't see my job.

I don't see my job in social situations like that to educate people.

I think the work I do speaks for itself.

I think me producing shows with thousands of people singing Hatikva at the end of every show and Modi on stage and people, that's my contribution so.

How do you think we can build more allyship?

It goes back to what we were kind of talking about with the Hannah Einbinder.

I think for the people who you who say the wrong things or maybe are misguided or or I think we need to show more compassion and a little bit more patience.

And again, I know that goes back to Jews shouldn't have to shrink themselves and make themselves more palatable.

So that's that's something that I can't really speak to as a Jewish person, but I just think, again, what would a reasonable person do going back to what you said?

I think that's the best course of action.

And I just don't think that taking your phone and yelling into your camera about what's happening is winning the hearts and minds of anyone who doesn't agree with you.

You're just speaking to people who already agree with you at that point.

It's an echo chamber and that's when social media becomes actually very dangerous in my opinion.

One of the things that I'm hoping to see too is more normalization of conversations between people and Israelis and people and Palestinians.

It's genuinely it would take me some effort to find a Palestinian who would want to speak to me, for example.

And people who are on the pro Palestine side don't go out of their way.

When we say pro Palestine side.

Yeah.

When we say that, when we say those words, that is not to say that I am anti Palestine.

Oh, of course.

I for I want what is best for the Palestinian people, which is a world in which they are not being ruled by Hamas, in which they have better access to infrastructure and clean water and food.

And the flip side of that, of the other side of the crowd is saying, well, Israel is blockading humanitarian aid and whatever talking points they came up with that day.

But I, for a long time, I think before October 7th, when I was in college and learning more about these things was very much the whole 2 state solution is where we should be focusing.

That has shifted a little bit.

I do think that should be the ultimate goal.

I think Hamas should be eradicated.

They should not be the governing party of Palestine and I think there should be a way in which there should be a 2 state solution.

However, based on everything that I've seen since October 7th, I no longer think that is a super viable option.

I think Hamas and the people who are running Palestine and the people in Qatar and the people who are secretly funding this from all different corners don't want a 2 state solution.

They want violence and they want to continue to have those justifications to perpetuate further violence and do more October sevenths and never end the cycle, which is frustrating because based on my understanding of the Israeli people, it's basically the opposite of what they want.

All of these secular Israelis who I know who live in Israel, they want what's best for the Palestinian people too.

And I think there's a huge education gap.

When I was there, again, I've been, I said I've been to Israel like maybe six or seven Times Now.

Not to say that that makes me an expert in any case, but I have been there.

I have been on the ground, which is more than a lot of these people can say who are attending all of these protests or encampments.

And I don't see any apartheid happening.

I see Arabs and Jews living side by side.

I see their neighborhoods intermingling with each other.

And I see, you know, Arab people in government positions, and you can't say the same about the other side.

Yeah, it's tricky.

That's where the exchange is so important, right?

All of these people, at least in America, have opinions about a place they've never visited and they don't really understand when they talk about the blockade or the wall, how it operates or why it operates that way or why wall was even built in the 1st place.

There's like exactly to what you said, the education gap.

Our story as the Jewish people on the last 75 plus years has been rewritten in major educational sources and how college campuses teach the conflict in a way where people now feel that hate against us is justified because they think we've done something horrible.

And where I think the bridge building process has to happen is just relearning about what really has happened in the last 75 years.

And media has a lot to do with it.

I wish it didn't, but it it really does.

I want to pivot a little bit to understand if now that you're so entrenched in the Jewish community, if your perception of the Jewish community has changed over time.

I mentioned earlier on the episode that a lot of my life has been running away from religion.

I grew up in a very religious family, so I struggle with organized religion.

You know, I don't go with Modi to shul really.

I'll go with him sometimes for if we sponsor A kiddush or something, I'll go and eat some Kagal or whatever it is down there and I'll say hi to the people that I know.

But it's definitely something that I wake up every morning, I have a coffee, I see Modi putting on to fill in.

I think that's beautiful.

I think there are certain rituals that are beautiful and the fact that they've existed for thousands of years is beautiful.

So I think there's a lot to be said, a lot of positive things to be said about the community.

I think they take a really good care of themselves.

I think things like that I've learned about that I didn't know about before, like Hatsala or different medical charities who help kids and even non Jewish kids get medical care and treatment.

I've learned about so many grassroots things that I'm not I'm going to mess up the words.

I forget what it's called, but basically these women in in Borough Park or wherever they live who have basements full of baby supplies and diapers and formula.

And if you're going through a hard time financially or whatever, there's like a safety net in the community that's built in for people.

I think that's beautiful.

I think the emphasis that they put on education is a positive.

Now to the flip side, I think there are some things that people in the Jewish community should be looking inwards on.

One of them to touch on education is I've read, Say what you want about the New York Times can be very anti-Semitic.

And I try to read differing opinions.

That investigative piece that came out not that long ago investigating the yeshivas who are receiving public funds in Brooklyn and the kids are graduating and not knowing how to read in English, That upsets me.

And it doesn't upset me because they're receiving public funds and not doing what they're supposed to do, although that is part of it.

It upsets me because I feel like the community, certain parts of the community, and this is like maybe the more insular, more ultra Orthodox people, which even though I look the way I do and I'm speaking the way I do, I actually have spent a lot of time with these people at their events and speaking to me on the phone.

And I think that they're doing the kids a disservice by not teaching them basic STEM skills, math, history, language arts.

And maybe they think it's not important because when they graduate, they're just going to go work in whatever business their family has.

That to me, it can be dangerous and can create an environment in which when a child or a young adult decides that they don't want to be so religious, maybe not go fully off the Derrick, but maybe they decide that they want to explore other options or another career path that is no longer available to them at that point because they have not been given the specific skill set to go out and do that.

And so that's where, so that's my, that's my perception of the Jewish community, at least here in New York and in the Brooklyn community that I've seen the fact that they support each other, they put an emphasis on education.

They're obviously very family.

Oriented things like putting fill in on rituals, holidays, grieving in the mourning process.

That is something that I think the Jews have nailed beautifully.

The Shiva going into the availis period when someone dies, going into the revealing of the headstone.

I think segmenting grief into these digestible milestones is something that is beautiful.

The only problem I have is when I feel like and I'm going to, I'm going to mess up her name.

But there is an activist who I follow online.

Her big thing right now is these women in Brooklyn who are not able to get gets to divorce their husband.

That's something I think is very messed up.

Obviously, I think that there are some changes that need to be coming from within the community to modernize.

And I hate to say that because again, the Jews role in the world is not to modernize, not to change themselves, not to make themselves smaller and make themselves less Jewish.

But when you hear about these things happening just across the bridge right over in Brooklyn, when you hear about these kids graduating school and not being able to read in English, only speaking Yiddish, who are getting married off at 1718 years old.

And then when those women realize they want something else, or maybe they're an abusive relationship, which does happen, they have no recourse.

And at that point, all of these beautiful things that I spoke to earlier about being a safety net and a support system, is that a safety net support, a support system, or does that become a method of control?

Because once you decide to leave, that is no longer available to you.

So that's something that I struggle with as I learn more and more about the community.

Because it's one thing to be supportive of your own, and it's another thing to create an environment that's hard to leave if you choose to do so.

And I think that's dangerous.

I'd actually argue that's not the intent of Judaism.

I think what you bring up is the cautionary tale of extremes.

And I imagine that back when the Torah and Talmud were written, you never had to deal with a scenario where my child has to learn another language.

But should I teach them because everyone in your society operated under one language?

But now I I just wonder, like to not teach your child the language of the country that they live in is to deprive them of an agency of freedom.

The method of controlling.

Them, yes.

And I don't think anywhere in the Torah or Talmud that was written as the intended interpretation of Jewish law.

And what you bring up is really important about sticking to the beautiful principles that we claim to uphold and not twisting them into something immoral.

There was one thing that I've never talked to anybody about on the record, but it drives me nuts and I really want to understand it.

And I know that there's no way for me to ask it without offending somebody.

Whenever I've gone to an ultra religious community, it could be anywhere in the world.

It could be in Israel, New York, Minnesota.

I always see trash on the streets and I always see that everything is dirty.

Even when I went to Argentina, the ultra Orthodox neighborhood.

I noticed that too.

Trash everywhere, everybody's like in Shmatas, their houses are dirty and I don't understand why.

I don't understand why the ultra orthodox communities have this pattern and.

It's a very interesting observation and it's something that I've also observed too.

I don't know what that is.

I think I just think it's like they think it's like a not my problem kind of thing when it comes to the household and things happening in the house, in the yard or whatever.

I think these women who have 8 or 9 kids like are simply doing their best to keep up.

But I have noticed the litter, like when you go into a neighborhood that is predominantly Jewish, I have noticed that the litter and the garbage on the streets problem increases for some reason.

I don't know what the correlation is to that.

Maybe if I if someone here is listening from an ultra orthodox community, please help me understand.

And you know I bring this up because it contradicts Judaism fundamentally.

Judaism has all these rituals about hygiene like a lot of the kosher laws we hold are specifically to keep us safe right?

To prevent from diseases.

There are all these hygiene rituals, cleanliness rituals.

So to see an ultra observant community that claims to live by these laws to I also live in a littered neighborhood, it seems like a contradiction to the way that Jews are supposed to live.

And that's what I always wondered.

Yeah, so I have had this thought before because I'm going to mess up the name, but I know there's that big event that happens in Hungary every year, Oman or Oman.

It's not.

In Ukraine.

Ukraine.

It's the Breslov Hasidic get together.

The followers of Rabbi Breslov go on a pilgrimage.

Is that what?

I'm talking about all the guys go on a pilgrimage and it's like the Coachella for these people and they take over this town and they do a bunch of things.

And what I've always seen is the aftermath photos and the town is trashed, the airport is trashed, there's garbage everywhere.

So yeah, I see.

I have seen that play out.

I know exactly what you're talking about.

I don't know what that is though.

As with any community, there's always room to improve, to grow, and I think you bring up a very valid point.

As part of this episode, every guest gets to ask me, a Jew, a question, any question you want.

It's something you've been curious about with Jewish life.

Is there any question you have for me?

Any.

Question I have for you.

You're going to be like a philosopher once said.

There's only two types of people in this world, the ones that entertain and the ones.

You don't know what she's talking about.

She's referring to a Britney Spears quote that I said on one of our podcasts, which I think it was very funny, but it.

Was hilarious.

No, I'm trying to.

I'm trying to think I'll paint a picture for you.

And maybe this is a little gross or personal, but early on when Modi and I were dating, we went to a Judaica store in Brooklyn that sold books and menorahs and Yarmulke's because I wanted to buy a Yamaha for myself.

Because we were going to all of these Shabbat dinners and I was being given these teeny tiny little Yamahas that wouldn't stay on my head.

And I wanted one of those big like Syrian looking ones.

Like I wanted like the big one because I hated that they were falling off of my head.

So Modi was like, come, I'll take you, and we'll go to one of the bakeries and get like a barreca and we'll go make it a whole thing.

And so I got distracted and I end up in the book section and I just opened a random book about marriage and all of these things about a women's menstrual cycle and the mikvah and like having a rabbi check your underwear.

That's a little crazy.

I held it up to Modi and I was like, is this real?

Yeah, it's real.

And I was like, okay, I'm not judging anyone, but that's, see, that's where it goes back to.

I don't know.

My question is for you there.

I guess this is something that I'm always like, I don't know how that works.

And like also it goes back to what I tried to say earlier when people find that these belief systems no longer serve them or work for them, that they get cut out from the community.

That's not directly correlated to what I was just speaking about specifically.

But like if a woman living in Borough Park decides, you know what?

I don't want to have to go to a mikvah and get looked at while naked and inspected every month.

I think it's unnecessary.

But then she becomes ostracized or someone says she's not allowed to come to an event because I've heard of those things happening.

How do you feel about certain as a woman?

How do you feel about certain things that in my opinion are a little bit archaic and tribal even to say those sorts of things?

How do you like approach those things?

Every guest that has asked me a question as part of this season has come in with the most deep rooted question I've ever heard and one that I've never been asked before.

And you are yet another one of those guests.

So thank you.

I love this question.

I thought you were gonna say, and you came with the most boring, basic question.

We're talking about my period.

I'm like.

No, I don't support extremes just in general.

I don't care where they come from or what the explanation is.

I think extremes are bad, and the reality is that my personal belief is that some of these Jewish customs and rituals are an extreme that no longer fits in our modern society.

And I think I'm not the only one.

Because most Jews are secular, they're not ultra Orthodox.

When I was in college I took a class taught by an Orthodox rabbi.

That was, they paid you 400 dollars to take the class and it was just straight brainwashed.

They were trying to get you to become Orthodox.

But I've always been one of those people where if I don't believe it, if I don't internalize it, you cannot persuade me.

So it was one year out the other.

I was a broke college student.

400 bucks sounded like great to me.

And as part of that class, we got to take a trip to the mikvah and learn about this mikvah ritual.

And it always rubbed me the wrong way because this mikvah process is supposed to essentially mourn the death of a potential child because it is a death.

That's how the period is viewed.

So the mikvah is meant to be a purification into the next month.

And in that time, the husband and wife sleep in separate beds and separate rooms sometimes.

So I appreciate the idea of absence makes the heart grow fonder.

I just don't think we need to take it that far.

So that's my view.

I will never subscribe to these things myself, but I don't think I can change anyones mind about it.

If that's how those people want to live, that's on them.

And there are probably women who use that as a tool and as a channel and as a method to connecting to their Judaism in a more stronger, meaningful way for them.

My just concern when I hear about those things is like, what if you're not comfortable with this, but you're being forced?

Not forced, but you feel a sense of obligation that like, in order to be a good Jew, I have to go do this thing that makes me uncomfortable and I don't necessarily align myself with, but it's just easier for me to go along with it than to say anything.

And that's where I start to get a little bit concerned.

Well, we can say the same thing about circumcision, right?

And that's.

Oh, don't get me started.

Right, because that's that's mutilating someones genitalia before they have any right to consent.

And yet we do it.

A lot of opinions.

We would have to do a whole another episode.

Yeah, so it's the same thing.

Like all of these religious things push it to the point where someone is deprived of their rights.

There's just no way.

Around you said it, not me.

Tell me, how can people connect with you on social media and learn more about your work?

You can connect with me on Instagram.

My handle is Leo under score Vega.

My last name is spelled VEIGA under score, so it's Leo Vega under score.

And my e-mail is infomodilive.com, or if you go to MODIS website, whichismodilive.com, and fill out that contact form, that goes right to my inbox.

And other than that, I'm on the road with Modi producing shows and when we have time, recording his podcast, which is called And here's Modi, which you can listen to.

I spout off on there as well.

So if you found this entertaining, you can go listen to me spout off on there too.

But yeah, it's so great.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you so much for doing.

This of course.

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