Straw Media.

I saw three amigos well before I was supposed to, and I used to walk around and make everybody call me ned Nita Lander.

Thank you, Hello, and welcome to the Only Murders in the Building Podcast.

I'm Ryan Tillotson and I'm Maggie Bowles, and we are looking behind the scenes and mining for clues as we meet the cast and creators of the Hula original series Only Murders in the Building.

Today on the show, we're continuing the conversation all about season four, episode eight, Lifeboat.

We'll hear from showrunner and co creator John Hoffmann and Desmond Borjees, who plays Alfonso Olivera, the final member of the Sauce family.

We'll talk about the legend of Tony Danza in the Only Murders Universe, the philosophical conundrum of Dudinoff's death, and the beginnings of Mabel's new mural.

So let's talk about episode eight, four oh eight Lifeboat, another episode where the film mentioned in the title factors pretty heavily into the episode.

I think like it kind of book ends it.

We get it at the beginning and at the end.

I mean, I didn't know anything about life but I've never also never seen.

Never seen it, although I hear it's one of Alfred Hitchcock's most underrated films.

Ah, yes, it is, so tell us about lifeboat Lifeboat.

Well, it's interesting because I was hoping, you know.

This is John Hoffman, showrunner, co creator.

I think everyone has expectations when you hear we're going to be niming titles of each of these episodes movies, and certainly rear Window would be the Hitchcock title that many, I think, would expect to find in this group, and I would too.

I would normally think, great, let's put rear Window in.

And it might have made sense.

It probably made sense for some of the others.

Some things just landed and the way they did.

But when we came around to this episode eight, which was written by Kristin Newman and Jake Schnezel, we were really knowing we were going into this idea of people bonded together in a tough situation and hanging onto each other and making calls that are only within the certain situation that requires intense need and love or other things.

So that kind of hotbed situation felt right the actual script.

And I feel bad because we don't have a Martin SCROSSESEI title in the group, but at the time the script was written, it was called Gangs of New York.

And the further we got into it, though thematically, I was finding myself distanced from what the content of the episode was with Gangs of New York.

And then when we started editing and putting together this voiceover that would be our thematic and putting it to the Gangs of New York thing, I was just like, something feels like a disconnect to me.

And so I at the very last minute, really in editing decided like, I feel like this is more lifeboat and made the segue over to that, and I really like was delighted, and so is Kristin and Jake and I sort of walked them through the new voiceover that reflected that, and it all felt of a piece.

I love.

The idea of a lifeboat can also look like a pre war apartment building or an affordable apartment on the Upper West Side, you know, And what would you do to hang on to that?

What would you do to hold on to something like that if if the people around you were that important, if you're all hanging in together to survive that felt like perfectly time for our rent controlled story that we were telling an eight.

Yeah, I get it.

I get it too.

In New York City, a lifeboat can look a lot like an affordable apartment in a nice building on the Upper West Side.

In this episode, we see a set.

We see Charles's apartment that we found out we talked to Patrick he rebuilt it, which I thought was crazy.

About that he's a wizard.

He's a wizard, which I loved hearing.

But I want we wanted to talk about the prop table.

On the set, you see a lot of stuff from season one and I'm curious, curious if that was you, Like how did you decide what got put in there?

It's so great?

Like now the show is the show?

Right?

So I watched this progression and you must know, like, being in charge of the show, I'm trying to sort of at the beginning, like say, explain like why these things are important and all the details of everything are important.

And then people watch the show and they recognize it.

And you have artists like the brilliant Diana Burton, our prop master who worked this season for us, and just perpetually like Susanna McCarthy before her delighted me.

I'd walk on sentence go oh my god.

Or she would present in a prop meeting, this is what we're thinking for this, and you're they're thinking further along and ahead of all the things they can have on that table that represent a season one story based on a movie that's being made, all of that, And I was like, oh my god.

So it's all really discovery for me now, whereas I used to have to like walk people through and say, well, what if it's this, what if it's this?

Now we have this history of the show that people can look at and relate to and then pull from themselves, And that's the greatest.

When you walk in, you're completely surprised by what's in front of you and you're like, well, how many you made?

Six of these?

You know that kind of thing.

So what is on that?

What is on that prop table that you that you think is like the most niche maybe item on that, because I mean, we saw the turkey.

I love the morning turkey.

There, we saw the turkey.

We saw some we saw the necklace and some of the jewelry.

We saw the bassoon case.

I think I saw some hardy boys books.

Yes, right, all of this stuff.

It makes my both my heart open and like feel like, oh my god, can you believe how far we've come since season one?

And then it also makes me, you know, have a little ogita because I know what the writers went through every time we had to say no, no, this is the this is the ring that Zoe had on and like and then the ring, like having to track rings and jewelry over season one was like, I think we've all talked about that, but yes, So a lot of it makes my heart go like in the good way, and then a lot of it causes palpitations because I remember how much it was a challenge to sort of make sense of all of it, you know, and and have people understand like, Okay, this omelet is connected to this story in Charles, and then it's going to spool out this way.

The rings are going to be this multiple storyline thread and then anything.

I love the Morning Turkey though, The Morning Turkey is the greatest.

Another weird thing in this episode is the Tony Danza time to wear white Pants extrava Danza.

Who's I was expecting to see Tony Danza in this episode?

Yeah, dance is the perfect Planza, I think tell us about Tony Danza.

Yeah, well sure.

I again, this was one of those things that like, wait, what are we doing?

And you know, you're sort of like, now you're following the writers who have worked this thing out that they have like probably too late in the day, and they they're punch drunk or whatever, and they're on a Tony Danza riff.

And I remember reading and hearing about this pitch and thinking like, wait a minute, what's going on with Tony Danza.

Tony Danza is the unofficial sort of arbiter of this was this may not even be in the cut, but in our story, Tony Danza is the unofficial arbiter of when to you know, throwing the greatest parties in New York and also when to where white after Labor Day?

All of the like, there's a whole thing about Tony Danza in New York as a sort of seminole figure in culture.

Is this is this only Murder's Law or this is New York low?

This is murder Law?

Okay, okay, Yeah, So there's this whole history you guys build about Tony Danza, like.

Well, everyone follows Tony Danz's rule when you're like at a party in the Hamptons, Like it's only done right if Tony Danz is there and he's approved of the way, you know, and when and where you're doing it.

Like this became a thing, so it got whittled down, of course, like time wise and everything else, to like just this notion of how to trap the Sauce family with the who's the Sauce idea that Eugene Levy has and I will personally just never forget.

Like that was another one of those moments in episode seven when Molly came in and she was telling off the actors and Selena could never keep a straight face.

The breaking up of that collection of brilliant acts throughout that scene on Charles's set in episode eight, when Eugene Levy started talking about Tony Danza and all of that, and Zach Galifanakis being utterly annoyed every time you hear you're not going to talk about Tony dance again, And then he's doing his crouching bit behind him and working out his I don't know, he's working out his quads.

What do is he working on?

Yeah, I'm not sure glutes, I don't remember what it's but that was one of those great memories.

I just remember coming up and they couldn't get through the scene.

It's so funny because Eugene is just so straight talking about like Tony Danza just so it's really funny.

There's times when you just are in a room full of the funniest people in the world and then you're like, Okay, I can't believe this is the scene we gave them to do.

And then you watch them play it with utter like only their personalities could do it, and you're like, Okay, well, actually they sold this one.

It's so good.

Well, and then later on we find out in the in the Sauce Families flashback that Tony Danza is an infests the Sauce.

Is that what's the what's the connection there?

Like, are we going to learn more about that?

Is Tony Dance are going to show up?

As I mean again, this goes to our lore of Tony Danz's influence in New York culture, which unfortunately did not make the final cut, but I think it would have made a little more sense because Tony Danza seems to be a bit ever present in the culture of New York in our lore.

So the idea that you know, yes, there might be a little bit of a coincidence of like, this is Eugene's plan and it also happens to be what the Sauce family was about to make it trying to make a deal with so that that whole thing it feels funny to me in wild coincidence, but on the other hand, it ties into the thing that may be on the cutting room floor.

It's very funny.

It's very funny.

It's very funny.

And who's the Sauce who doesn't want to say that a lot?

Who's the I think we talked to Kristin and Jake a little bit about all of the different Westies and all of their different backstories.

We did.

Maybe you can talk to us a little bit about that.

That's it.

We learn it all here right in this episode.

It's all like, you know, I think what feels like coincidence to earlier episodes in many ways, I think across the season when you're like, wait a minute, the brother sisters know them and how to but it's all just the way in which to me, when you're investigating something and finding out like why are these people all here and acting like a cult it's because they actually have roots with each other that we explore in this episode that but until then it all feels weird in certain ways which feel like something to further investigate.

And then the idea to me that the brother sisters were a part of this connection to Doudanoff and his film class and being an intrinsic inspiration for them, and then to sort of realize they took this movie because of this building and because he lived in it and there was a tie to him in that way.

I felt that was really cool as far as like just the things that sort of at first on first look at something feels like well that how how?

And then the investigation here is personal in episode eight and the story about Dudenoff and what happened.

Obviously by the end of episode eight, for Dudenoff's end, we learn we learn has to have like really deep rooted stories, backstories for all of them.

And I was very moved by you know, our resident New York sort of research Maven in the room as Madeline George, and she came in with so many any stories like anecdotal stories of rent control schemes and rent controlled plants or groups of people in apartment buildings gathering to do something with a mutual interest that was shocking, and it over and over again.

We had stories like that brought into the room, of people doing incredibly odd things that become like eight people in an apartment building on one floor, you know, cooked and boiled someone and blah blah blah, you know, and did a whole thing just to do this, and blah blah blah.

These stories seem a bit outlandish, and yet that's what we're playing off of in some way, but in a sort of like hanging to the emotional side of it with Dudanov and the wish of a dream in companionship, and again going to the sort of like core loneliness people finding each other in New York City, you hang on to them.

Yeah, like a life boat.

Okay, like a life.

I don't know why I'm saying.

That, we're here for it, John.

One of the recipients of that metaphorical lifeboat was Dudonov's friend and neighbor, Alfonso olivera patriarch of the Sauce family played by Desmond Borjez, and when we talked to him, he hadn't yet seen this episode.

I intentionally stay away from stuff so that I can grow personal distance from it so that.

My you know, crazy actor slash.

I think I'm part elephant because I remember everything, like every take, all the way down to the last detail.

So I really need to I like to remove myself for a long time so that when I come to it, it's been far enough away and I could actually enjoy it as an audience member and not just go you know, crazy actory nerdy about it, thinking about takes and possibilities and things like that.

So what they cut, what they didn't use?

Yeah, yeah, well.

That you know, I learned pretty early on that like can't be too precious about anything, because once it's down and it's on the tape and we move forward, they it's to so many other people's discretions and not mine.

So I just try and make like everyone one that I would be really excited to see pop up if it happens to pop up.

And I feel like that was a pretty healthy mindset to develop pretty early on, I think.

So I am curious when I'm sure you have friends and family who are watching the show.

Do they come to you with their theories?

Do they ask you questions?

Do they like try to feel out or are they like, don't tell me anything.

I want to see how it plays out.

It's more like they'll broach the subject, and then as soon as I start to figure out how I can help satisfy scratching their itch without giving it away, they see what's happening in my eyes and then they stop me cold.

So it's a fun little little game of chicken we play.

I'll bet, I'll bet so.

In episode eight, we learn the backstory of the Sauce family and and all the Westies, including the final Westie who he had not met yet.

So can you describe to us how you think about the Sauce family.

Oh, you know, I feel like the Sauce family represents a lot of people that I've known throughout my life.

Like I grew up in Chicago and Logan Square in the eighties when it wasn't hip to live there, right, And the building that we grew up in was like a seven flat Graystone.

And my family's made up of Puerto Ricans on my dad's side and Italians and Greek second generation third generation on my mother's side, And it was a mixture of all of us that we are of living together.

And one thing that I really realized about being in that atmosphere that it's very fun, very boisterous, and sometimes those those things sort of lend themselves to sort of dangerous positions because everyone's really trying to do their best at just sort of making it for their family and for like the extended family that's in the building.

So I really like grasp onto that, like very very quickly, right, Like, I feel like the Sauce family is just really doing the best that they can to try and make their dreams happen and you know, give their daughter the best pathway forward that she can have.

And so when you know, they meet Dudent off right, they meet the other Westies, we get that very sort of lovely, boisterous but somewhat dangerous familial setting, right, and all of them are just trying to do the best that they can for themselves and for the collective group.

And I don't see, you.

Know, as someone who lived in New York for quite a long time, I see nothing wrong with anything that they're doing, especially having a ham you know, some percutto you know, just hamon Hagen.

I wouldn't want that, you know, just go in get a slice, you know, I mean it's like meat butter.

Why wouldn't you want a little bit of that action in your life on a you know, semi hourly basis.

Yeah, first hanging in the shower and then hanging on the luggage cart two absolutely perfect places to hang a harmon you.

You got to put it somewhere.

Yeah, well, and you got to, you know, in the chaos, you got to hope that they're looking somewhere else so that they're not concentrating on you.

I like to think that that was like Alfonso's idea, but you know, I don't want to take anything away from anybody else.

What kind of sauce were you making?

Do you know?

Well, my favorite was, you know, like the PDPD sauce, which is Portuguese, so it's sort of like smoky.

Yeah, it's kind of like their version of like Amatriciana, which is, you know, like the tradition Roman red sauce that has guancle in it, right, So it's very it's very similar to that, although we had a red sauce and we had a green sauce, but yeah, it kind of had like a smoky, sort of salty tang to it.

Just curious about.

I mean, yeah, that's great.

I mean I tasted all of them while I was there, as you should.

I wanted to know.

I wanted to know, like, are we good at making sauce?

And you know, the props department was excellent at making sauce.

They had good sauce on the stove.

So after the break, who among the Westies did the heavy lifting the best sauce on the set?

And of course theories.

Welcome back.

There is a scene in this episode.

It's a part of Vince's flashback back to Judinov's class.

Ye.

The reason It's a Wonderful Wife is timeless comes down to one thing.

Casting.

You know, if you can populate your story with the right people, your work will live forever.

We wanted to hear John Hoffman's take on Milton Dudnoff's feelings about It's a Wonderful Life.

I feel there is a potency and like people who love something.

Dudenof is a film professor.

Dudenoff loves film, loves telling stories.

And now it's clearly he's not going to make films, so he can only inspire.

So I love teachers, I love like the idea of people who love something so much but are perfectly happy living lives where they hand that dream over to someone else and encourage them.

Is the most incredible thing to me.

So this idea that he's looking at that movie and saying that that's what he feels is like the most important thing about it is the casting of that movie because of the way it makes you feel.

Jimmy Stewart has a quality that is so lifelong, warm and connective, and everyone in that movie makes you feel something, and everyone who watches it can help it be a wreck at the end of it, all of those things.

But that's a universal sort of emotional thing that film can do.

And I think if you're a teacher and you have a love of something, I love the idea of someone when he's alone later in life and examining and looking back on his life with some opportunity to do something new or next after they've lost their spouse, putting together a cast of people in making his own sort of version of the film he wants to live in in that building sort of felt sweet and profound in a certain way and generous again from a sort of teacher's sensibility to me.

So I loved that character turn of that's what he was doing for himself, and then he had one request that it continue.

And as he says at the end of the episode down in the basement, I never got a chance to do this, but I'm going to make one movie that really means something for this movie to continue, the movie that I've created up here on this floor, that all of you stays in it.

And this is the way I think we can do that.

So that felt really deeply New York, deeply inspired by what teachers do.

I think, Yeah, yeah, I also think there's like probably some some connection to like, you know, this pro like only murders as a project and Steve Martin and Martin short being such good friends and like casting each other as the most important person in their lives, each other's lives for the next life however many years, Like you know, I feel like there's something something that reflects into reality.

I never thought of it, right, it is it comes right back to something like that.

That's that's really true.

And again I think that's the intangible with the show, is sort of the emotional quality that's happening between those two guys who've known each other over thirty years and they adore each other, and there's that underneath thing that you feel that you can't create with other people who don't have that.

One of I think maybe my favorite moments of this episode.

I love watching Eugene mess with Steve.

He's like a cat, you know.

It's like the way he pushes that little omelet.

I love that.

Yeah, I agree with you, and he relished it, which made me really so happy because he like that whole scene with the omelet and then kind of excited to see him what does it look like?

What does it look like?

Push him out of his comfort zone and get him angry.

The rage of a Canadian also was exciting to me live in that space with Eugene Levy for a bit.

I loved every minute of that Tory line for him.

I'm a Canadian man connected to his rage right now and good, it feels so good.

Charles tantrum with me.

No, no, no.

They incinerated your friend, Charles, no, and then you with word games from the New York Times.

At the very end of the episode, we see Mabel start to maybe start on a new mural.

Is that something we can we can look forward to?

I think I think her original mural was a very special thing.

Yeah, well, I mean I like that we see her drawing again and I feel like her it's a space, you know, her growth to sort of find her own independence and this odd space obviously that she's choosing to do this in and it's hoping to sort of now she knows the story of duden Off, the person who was living there, and now she's sort of claiming it in the spirit of At the end of episode eight, I have to say, also, one of my favorite moments maybe from the series, happens right before that, and it's just this little moment and I almost think it was a I think it was a thing Steve threw in, but it was her at the elevator and we realized, oh, wait a minute, she's on her floor, she's in her apartment.

The guys are going back to their apartments in the other side of the building for the first real time we've seen that, and so they all get in the elevator and she's left outside of it, sort of independent from them, and you just see Steve look back and just say you good, and she nods, and she's claiming some independence in it.

But it's so sweet.

I don't know how to describe it.

Those moments just like fell.

Yeah, I agree.

I think that's a really special moment.

And that was just May decided on set, which I love.

I love those Yeah, I love that.

Yeah that was Steve.

I love it.

It's very that's good.

Yeah, you got me in touch with my emotions.

Thank you.

Well.

It was an honor playing a small part.

In bringing out your true self.

And Charles, I won't.

Alienate your audience by putting any of it on film, Hie, right, you good?

Yeah, I'm good.

Well, okay, Mags, would you say Mabel is a Westino?

I guess she.

I guess she has to be.

Maybe I don't know.

Okay, Well, back to our Westy of the day, Alfonso Sauce played by Desmond.

We talked to Richard Kind before having seen episode eight, and we've also talked to Daphne Rubin Vega, and we've talked to Lilian Rabello.

You're the last member of the Sauce family that we're talking to.

But also I was just, oh, no, I'm gonna have to mess all this up.

Now, what did they snatch?

But I was thinking about because you said you have you know, have the brain of an elephant maybe, And Richard kind was very clear in telling us he remembers nothing about anything, and so I'm curious what the experience was like, you know, getting to know your fellow Westy's on set.

And then obviously I would love to hear about the big, the huge scene where the Westies all get to tell their stories to the two trios.

Well, first off, like I'm sure I'm not the only one who's saying this on your podcast, Like it is literally a dream come true on so many levels working with the people that we get to work with on this project, right like just before we get to the West East as as a little dez, like I saw three amigos well before I was supposed to, and I used to walk around and make everybody call me ned Nita Lander Like when I was young, I wanted to be Martin Short and Rick moranis like Id's those are just the two guys that I gravitated to in everything.

So, you know, being in the same room with him and Steve and Eugene and Selena and Zach and Eva and sort of watching like they're brilliant just sort of spill over so easily and so naturally, Like sometimes I had to remember, oh man, you got a line coming up, let's stay hint.

This sort of thing that was usually just in the rehearsal process, not while we were filming, but you know, trying to get a flow in a field so that you could, you know, bring to the table things that would not only help support, you know, the overall story that we're telling, but also maybe surprise them a little bit.

Right.

To be able to like make Steve or Marty laugh.

At a moment that made them is like a total total dream come true.

But if we're talking specifically about the Westies, I did my first major commercial in Chicago with Richard Kind when I first got out of acting school.

It was Encore Frozen Foods.

He had the he was the spokesperson for the account.

I still remember to this day that when something happens on set, mister Kind, being the lovely human that he is, he never curses.

He uses the word sugar incessantly, incessantly.

It's amazing and hearing yeah, sugar, sugar, you know, just not sugar.

So it's and it didn't change, It hadn't change.

It's like twenty years ago, right, So like so seeing him, and then him remembering me as soon as he saw me, because I was like someone jumping out of an airplane crashing into a frozen foods aisle.

And then he was like, hey, you look like you're hungry.

Here are some Encore frozen foods.

That's basically the commercial right.

Let internet go find it and have fun with it.

So we have that, and then, you know, I was a pretty big rent head as a teenager, you know, like Jonathan Larson's Rent is up there in one of the most magical theater experiences that I ever got to, you know, experience, coming from Chicago coming to New York checking it out.

I saw the original cast, and Daphne Rubin Vega is a queen among queens as far as I'm concerned, So it wasn't difficult for me to feel jealous that my wife enes in the show was crushing on another guy, considering just how otherworldly I consider her to be as a human and as an artist.

So it was fairly amazing.

And then kumel Man, I've been I've that dude.

I can't say enough like amazing things about him, Like he was, you know, they were doing Silicon Valley while we were doing, You're the worst, And we used to see each other sort of at things in La a long time ago, and to watch like what his career has done and just how he's grown, Like I couldn't be more happier for a fellow brown man on television, right, So, like it's absolutely amazing from a personal standpoint, and then from an artistic standpoint, all of them are crazy, crazy, ridiculous good And if you know, John would and the directors, they'd let us fly sometimes.

So if you know someone was feeling a moment and just wanted to keep going with it, you couldn't ask for a better grouping of people just to start going off the cuff with, you know, totally overall, like what a little ridiculously amazed experience from top to bottom.

Speaking of Camille, how was shooting that his A Few good Men speech, Like I'm so curious to know, like how, yeah, what it was like for you and for you in that moment, because it's ridiculous.

It was phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal, And watching him change and color it and then like stop and get an idea and go back.

And then he had alts upon alts upon alts for everything and then watching him go through those alts like it was like I was watching a masterclass in acting, you know, and and but it was hilarious.

And that was the thing.

All of us had to like keep it together the entire time because depending on what version of the shot you see, we're in the background, right and we're invested in it, and as you know, not only just as fellow same partners, but as fellow Westy's we know this story right, and we want to support him and have him tell it to the best of visibility, to kind of, you know, keep our story as a group afloat.

And it was incredibly difficult with all of them.

It was incredibly difficult, especially the first couple rounds, to kind of keep it together because you hear them start doing stuff and it's just like, you know, it's seriously what dreams are made of, seriously, without a doubt.

And I'm sure everyone else has said the exact same thing.

So I'm sorry listeners if I'm just repeating everything that everyone has said.

Every time you've listened to this podcast, it went.

Something like that.

So you want answers, I think I'm entitled.

You want answers, I want the truth?

You can't handle the truth.

Son.

We live in a world that has walls, and those walls need to be guarded by men with guns.

Who's going to do it?

You?

You, Lieutenant Weinberg.

I have a greater I'm sorry.

Are you going to do the whole monologue?

Yeah?

I was going to do the whole thing.

I think it's worth it.

I have a great Going back into your elephant brain archive, what is what was your most memorable moment shooting this entire season?

Oh?

Man, all right, there's so I mean, there's so many, but you want one, so I'll give you one.

It's when we came back and turned the cameras around in this scene in episode eight and Steve slowly starting to fold the blanket and starting to lose his cool, right, and then he comes over and they've got the bit where they're not understanding him.

They're thinking it's a game of charades, and I think at one point he's like, yes, you know, like that Steve Martin, like that face of despair, and that's amazingly hilarious that he makes.

Like watching him do that from the rehearsal through every take was probably the most amazing thing that I've ever witnessed being on set ever, because you've seen it in its glory for how many decades and then to watch it live happen in front of you, watch the brilliance happen, and it be different almost every time.

You just feel lucky to be in that room.

And then we'd go over to our chairs and hang out between setups, and then he decided to do some sleight of hand magic tricks with his card set for us, you know, and it's just to kind of like wrap that whole entire experience together.

Like I could see it in everyone's eyes.

It didn't matter if you were like little boy Desmond or you know, Eugene and Richard who have known him forever, Like there's a magic that that man is able to bring to everyone at any given moment.

And just like being there for that in that thing, I'll, you know, I, like I said, I think it's the most memorable moment in my entirety of my career thus far.

Like that day was just absolute magic in my mind.

I love it that that was a great scene.

I think, you know, along with Eugene saying like I'm channeling him, I can understand character.

I can understand it's so funny.

What else does he say that?

This used to make me left so hard.

He was like, I'm a Canadian man getting in touch with my raige, right, Like there's just you know, and like when he would do it, like one eyebrow would raise and the other one would kind of stay still, you know, and it was just that, you know, yeah, I but it.

It's funny, but you know, like you like watch them, do you know these brilliant, brilliant comedic things, just like giving off one of each back and forth, just giving it back and forth.

Is like wow, yeah, wow.

Yeah.

Earlier this week, we talked to writers Kristin Newman and Jake Schnezl about the moral quandary of the episode, and we're still on the side of the Westies and their decision even after all this time.

So these are not murders, no, but that one hell of a podcast.

And yes, we've been keeping up the rooms and oh god, cashing his check.

We're going to jail.

Now, you're not.

Guys.

We used to be three lonely weirdos living in the Rconia.

The podcast brought us together.

I don't want to use it to tear them apart.

So humanity is.

More important to do than the podcast.

What a Revelation, you know.

I think the things about life in general that are more somewhat digestible but technically illegal, really fall into like what it's like to be a multi ethnic human in a minerica.

I feel like there's a lot of in order in order to like move forward and to break down doors, sometimes you have to do something that in your heart of hearts you know is right, yet you know the man will tell you that it's extremely wrong.

And I think one thing that was kind of, you know, amazing about this is that these Westies know him and trust him and love him so much that him coming up with that idea, putting it forward to us, even though we don't necessarily want to go along with it because we don't want to see him go, we know he knows best.

And I think that's one thing that a lot of people always take for granted that other people live in their bodies and their skins and their minds and their feelings for.

Their entire lives.

Right, But in that situation, you we we wanted to help honor him to the best of our ability, and if that was the way, then unfortunately that was the way, not that it wasn't scarring, especially for our daughter.

It is a it's a very big ask because you know, what they don't what we don't see in the show is like the actual physicality of performing that favor for someone, which is like really harrowing to think about.

So I'm glad we didn't have to see that on camera because that would have been a little too dark.

Yeah, I think it's best to let the mind wander with that one and let everyone make their own mental pictures of you know how that would go about.

Yeah, I assume it would be mostly Alfonso and Rudy doing the heavy lifting in that.

I would assume maybe, you know, that's that's where my mind goes.

I mean, I'm I'm you know, in my mind, I think like Rudy probably picked him off up and draped him over his shoulders like a barbell about to do a hack squad, and then I was like, hold on, hold on, I'll help you out.

Right.

There's like.

It is a very philosophical episode, absolutely, you know, it asks a lot of questions.

And it's that you will all keep me alive.

Well, I mean, actually no, because I've just taken a hell of a lot of pills.

I want you tonight to put my body in the incinerator.

Yes, yes, And then I want you to cash my Social Security checks and I want you to tell everybody I just moved to Portugal.

Do you know how it ends?

The thing is if I say no, and that leads listeners down a pathway where they could, you know, kind of make assumptions about the Sauce family that I don't think I want them making.

Right, So there's no right answer here, No.

Not at all.

I mean, you know, if I say yes, I know how it ends, then they're you know, let's just say when I got the scripts and I was downloading them and you know, chewing on them because they're so delicious and amazing, right, Like, I really try to go through the parts that the Sauce family wasn't directly involved in so that when I do become an audience member and I'm watching this, I feel like I'm watching that part of the story for the very first time.

Right, So, like I would really i'd read them all and then i'd really just like you know, laser in on anything that had to do with the Westies and the Sauce family and try to let my half human, half elephant brain forget everything else that I read, which is pretty difficult to do.

All right, time to read some emails and share some.

Theories, and I forgot about the East rag earlier.

It seems there is like a power outage over the opening credits in the building.

Interesting.

Yes, thanks for all of the emails.

Thanks to Shelley J, Trish T, Matti G, Katherine, Patricia G, Jennifer Y, Emily P KK, Courtney, w tof H and Tim Why, our Easter expert.

All of them were Easter experts or just Tim.

Tim Why has sent a bunch of emails about each of the Easter eggs, and I appreciate it.

He is our expert.

Vinnie s thinks Loretta as the killer, though I do think this theory was from before episode eight, so I wonder if he still thinks that.

I don't know.

I can't imagine Loretta killing anyway.

She's so I agree.

Ruth K.

I'm sorry we failed you on the Billie Joel references from UPSOT seven not being a huge I'm sorry not being a huge billy, Joel expert.

I didn't even catch them, so we'll try and ask John about it next time we talked to him.

Vinya B.

Thinks maybe Doreen and Marshall are in it together and that maybe they had taken Dudenof's class possible.

She noticed two dolls with silver tinsel pom poms at Doreen's house.

She might be onto something because she also thought that the Westies did not kill Dudenoff but did dispose of his body.

So onto something and that we learned just true in this episode.

Is so who knows Dan Dee has a mastermind theory?

He believes less of the Dorman might be it.

He noted that he's often taken for granted and that he would know everything that goes on in the building.

So even though he might not be the one doing the murdering, he may be the one pulling the strings.

That's very interesting theory.

Interesting.

Laura B.

Is thinking Bev and Marshall might be involved and that Saz and Glenn were the targets, either because Bev is breaking stuntman reunion rolls definitely and they knew, or because Saz wrote the script and told Glenn about it.

Interesting, very interesting.

Liz S still thinks doctor Maggie is involved.

We'll see if we see doctor Maggie again.

And eb H, thank you for telling us that Griffin Dunn is Joan Didion's nephew.

Of course, it's the same Griffin Dunn who made the twenty seventeen documentary The Center Will Not Hold.

I wish we'd talked to griffind on this season.

We should have reached out.

We didn't know.

What stupid stupid of us who produces this show?

Yeah, what idiots dumb.

We also got a voice memo two two voice memos.

Hi, Maggie and Ryan, This is Trish Ryan.

I completely agree with you that Helga is not to be trusted.

She knew many obscure things that endeared her to Doudinov, which is very suspicious.

Also, her father has mentioned numerous times.

Fathers are a big theme of this season.

I suspect we will soon learn more about Helga's father and this will connect Helga to Saz's murder and to Charles.

On episode one, I have theorized that there is some kind of metal poisoning going on, because Charles doesn't see Sas until he's exposed to her ashes, and he specifically said he would leave the jar open, so the water could evaporate.

Several times throughout this season so far, we've been reminded of the jar.

He will ei them, what talk about it, or will be shown it.

It's just sitting in Charles's apartment, still open to the air, and I think he's just kind of being poisoned that way.

Secondly, Richard Kine's character Vince mentions in passing that he has an enlarged heart.

This was like a throwaway comment at the time, but a little Google search told me that is a symptom of heavy metal poisoning as well.

My theory was pretty weak until we got the information about Dudenov being ill.

So if Dudnov was also ill when he died, we know he had a metal joint, who's to say that's not what caused his illness.

And finally, GLENNS.

Dobbins, he seems to be hallucinating rats wherever he goes.

Initially kind of just seems it's in that bar, but he also locinates them when he's in the elevator at the Alconia, so it's everywhere.

Now he's in the hospital, I am convinced that we will discover that he has metal poisoning and that is going to be the thing that connects everyone.

Wow.

Thank you so much Trish and Mikila for those voice memos.

Now, before we handed over to Hannah and the Only Murder subreddit, here's what the writers of this episode, Kristin Newman and Jake Shoneessel said about Reddit.

We'd all love to give a shout out the Reddit community because they often give us incredible credit for things like anagrams.

Lots of anagrams, all.

Kinds of things that we're just going to take credit for forever and that we carefully plat it plotted out, and we're incredibly good and stuff.

We strive to be as intelligent as the reddit board things we are.

They talk with amazing things.

I really think they should all be hired.

They think that as well.

I would agree.

Listen, if anybody wants to figure out season five, I guess love it.

Come on in, Okay, and now here's Hannah with the Reddit scoop.

Hey, Maggie, Ryan and everybody listening.

We're getting so close to the big reveal now and I really don't want this season to end.

But here are the latest theories from the Only Murders in the Buildings.

I've Reddit.

This episode, we finally meet Helga, and while she claims to be an innocent Westy, our members have their doubts.

Mom by Mom says, I don't think episode eight clear to Helga of suspicion.

In fact, I'm more suspicious of her now.

The way she infiltrated the Westis was too obvious.

She already knew this obscure card game that they love.

She already knew the perfect stranger's theme song.

She laid it on thick with dudonof trying to force a father daughter's surrogate relationship.

And then there's the accent and the unusual locksmith's skills.

But it's really the plane ticket from SAS's desk of clues that makes me sure that she's not who she says she is.

My theory is that she's undercover FBI who infiltrated the Westies to investigate an older crime in the building.

She was probably looking at Dudonov as a suspect, or maybe even Charles.

Dudonov found out she was FBI and forced her out.

I mean, why would her face have been scratched out of the photos unless there was some kind of betrayal I think Helga is one of the people watching the tree this season, she flew out to La to talk to Saz to find out what Sas knew since Sas was poking around the Westies.

Next, at the end of the episode, Helga comes in with revelations that seemed to point to Glenn's Stubbins, but member Heavenly Whale seems to think it's a red herring.

They say, I wonder if Glenn was harassing Saz, trying to convince her there was something foul afoot, and he's the reason she started investigating.

And now that Saz was taken out, the killer is after the only other person who knew, which is Glenn.

Next up, after the previous episode Valley of the Dolts, some people grew suspicious of Doreen and her husband, Big Mic and in Lifeboats we are told about a certain project runconcoma Evelyn.

The cat Burglar points out Runkonkoma is a town in Suffolk County in Long Island, and who lives in Suffolk County, Long Island, Charles's sister Doreen and her husband Big Mike.

Now, I can't wait to find out if this means anything or not, but I found that interesting.

Now, despite what we found out in Lifeboats, Marshall remains the subs number one suspect at the moment.

Evex Serif says the facts that Marshall idolizes.

Charlie Kaufman, a screenwriter famous for involving himself into scripts and surprising ways, suggests to me that Marshall's involvement in the plot goes beyond simply writing.

It would be very on brands to commit or otherwise orchestrate a murder that you later write about.

And finally, I've got to end with a question from L three Raiser about the true mystery of the episode.

They say, the real mystery is what are the nineteen functions of the Lady Longorian nineteen and one multi tool?

I kind of need to find that out.

So that was our thoughts for this week, and I'll be back next week with the final season four theories from the Only Murders in the Building subreddit.

That's it for today.

Thank you so much for listening.

Please send your thoughts and theories to us at Only Murders at strawhatmedia dot com.

Take a minute to subscribe, read the show, follow us, leave us a review if you enjoy listening.

Only Murders in the Building podcast is a production of Strahat Media, hosted and produced by Ryan Tillotson and Maggie Balls.

Associate producer is Stephen Markley.

Original music by Kyle Merritt.

Only Murders in the Building theme music by Siddartha Kosla.

Assistant editor is Daniel Ferrera.

Production assistant is Carolyn Mendoza.

Thank you to Desmond Borjez, Kristin Newman, and Jake Schnezzel for talking with us, and big, big, big thanks as always to John Hoffman and the entire Hulu team.

See you next week.

Sea.

Not to quote Drake because that's ridiculous, but we started from the bottom and now we're here right like whatever here is like, you know, for us, it was great.

I am curious how he makes a living because the Sauce family makes sauce, Rudy makes very successfully.

Rudy makes his influencer workout videos.

And what is Vince?

How does he?

I mean his rent is really cheap, but I don't know when.

Yeah, I mean you probably don't have to make any you know, with the rent they pay.

Two it's a great deal.

Come on, he might, you know, he might just.

Have I bet he gives weird speeches places and then gets honorariums for him and that's.

That might be enough income.

Or you know, I think like guest speaker somewhere, or maybe he got collects old maps of the neighborhood and sells them on eBay.

That's a good idea.

And I'm not saying anything, but maybe we'll learn more in season five.

I don't know WHOA Oh, I hope.

So are you in talks with the writers you already maybe