Strawt Media.

Do you remember the scene of her like in the alley way behind the Arconia, putting garbage in the dumpster and going who's that?

Who's that?

We were really like we'd.

Lost the thread.

Hello, and welcome to the Only Murders in the Building Podcast.

I'm Ryan Tillotson and.

I'm Maggie Bowles, and we're looking behind the scenes and mining for clues as we meet the cast and creators of the Hulu original series Only Murders in the Building.

Today on the show, we're continuing our conversation about season four, episode ten, the finale, My best Friend's Wedding.

We'll hear more from Jin, Jane, John and JJ.

That's Jin Ha who plays Marshall p Pope Slash Rex Bailey, Jane Lynn, who plays Saspataki.

Showrunner, co creator and co writor of the episode, John Hoffmann, and JJ Philbin, who co wrote the episode with John Well.

Also here from production designer Patrick how.

We'll talk about the moment Jin found out his role was a little more complex than he had initially thought, the piece of Only Murder's history that Jane Lynch took home, and of course our new Murder in the building well in the courtyard of the Word Enough.

Long before he had auditioned for the role of Marshall p Pope Jinha and his partner were both only Murders.

Fans, correct, correct big fans, big, big fans.

So that's why I knew from the beginning when I found out about Marshall and Rex.

We both decided early on, and I had to just pretend from the very beginning, being like, Hey, if I find out anything, you know, as I'm reading scripts for about that, what do you want to know?

She's like, don't tell me anything.

I just I was like to know, and then I was like, Okay, that's good luck to me for the next you know, I was trying to protect It was all like I mean, I just we're diving in out.

But I was like, it was already like having to come up with reasons why I'm still working towards the end of the season, and in my mind, I was like, right, going back to season two when they had the Murder Mystery party and everyone was gathered for the reveal, I was like, maybe I can pretend like it's something like that where it's like, oh, you know, it's just a bunch of us are all there, and like it's a lot of coverage of like looks and expressions and so like, you know, we're just standing around all day, even though it's you know, one of the later episodes, like all these tiny, little intricate ways that I'm like, how do I preserve the magic?

So how early on in the process did you find out that you were the killer?

It was not until I flew out to LA to shoot, so I had I had prepped questions about Marshall.

I was like, Oh, he's a playwright.

Great.

I have playwright friends, I have screenwriter friends.

I'm going to talk to them.

I'm going to get it.

I'm gonna buy these writing books.

I'm going to really get the character for what a Hollywood screenwriter's life would be like who's you know, just trying to get a project picked up.

And I had a meeting scheduled with John Hoffman, I think a day or two before our first day of shooting in La.

It was like the big mansion scene of the Hollywood Hills, and I had a you know, thinking like, oh, this will be a good way for me to ask about Marshall's overall arc like you know, what kind of tone or style or energy do we want him to inhabit within this extraordinary, extraordinarily colorful cast.

Maybe had a little bit of small talk.

I don't even remember all of it, but I remember sitting down in one of his offices out there, and he sat down, and then Ben Smith and Kristin Newman happened to be walking by or something, and John was like, oh, come on in, and either Ben or Kristen looked at John and was like, have you told him yet?

I was in my mind just thinking the first thing.

I was like, Oh, it's been a good run, like they've still found somebody else, and you know what, I'm happy, happy to have been here.

And this rejection, you're just actors are just ready for rejection.

But there are the craziest stories out there that exist stranger than fiction.

So I was like that's possible, yeah, or obviously, like whatever else it might be, I was like, there's no no inkling in my mind that I was like this is where this is going, because obviously in the audition there was nothing mentioned at all.

It's just like all this nervous guy who really loves nine to five, like that's his favorite movie and that was in like a breakdown somewhere, and yeah, and then he sat down and then he I don't even remember the word I might you think he might have said something like just point blank, like so you're the killer, and it uh, you know, like white void in my mind.

But suddenly my heart is racing, and I think I said some something like, oh, well, all of the questions I prepared don't matter anymore.

And then it was just, you know, obviously like the next thirty minutes to forty five minutes just being like receiving information that I think in my my notebook that I had brought some random things I had scribbled, was like Marshall is not my name, and like without fully because they were still writing the scripts I think seven eight, nine ten as we were shooting, and I just got like large brushstrokes of the idea.

But I think even they were still hashing out like the details of how the murder happened and exactly, you know, like what are all the elements?

And it was shocking, to say the least.

And then obviously from then on, like holy shit, what an unbelievable journey.

You know, on top of that, did you know I didn't know this that some folks on set, including Selena, don't want to know.

Really we didn't know about Selena.

Yeah, Selena.

Selena apparently as even though she's an EP as much as she can, as long, for as long as she can, she likes to not know and until she reads a script that comes out and then it reveals it.

But I remember hearing from maybe it's from her assistant Ali, mentioning that like she had read whichever script was sort of comes up and she was like, I still like right before maybe episode eight or something, She's like, I'm still not sure like who it is.

And everybody around hers like, yeah, yeah, totally.

So in that way, I was.

I was, really it was kind of beautiful.

It was a beautiful not symbiosis, but like it worked out well that even on set, I had to be careful in speaking to people.

I didn't want to reveal too much.

Actually, you know what it was Michael too.

Michael so Creighton also was trying not to know for as long as possible, because the first thing I said when I met him, you know, we had met once long ago in like a little Nework Theory workshop presentation, but the first time we saw each other on set.

He was like, don't tell me anything.

It's like just so you know, I don't want to know anything.

And I was like, okay, it nice to see you.

And so it was.

It kind of worked out beautifully that I had to maintain that secret on set while I'm also maintaining that secret at home because my character had to do that anyway, twenty four to seven.

So it was it, it was, It was nice.

It was a nice coin.

It helped, it helped the performance, maybe one would help yeah, yeah, but one would hope it helped my mentals, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course he does.

He's got like layers and layers of secrets.

Also, my my YouTube algorithm is fucked.

Oh because yeah, well, first you look up all this uh writing stuff, I'm sure, and then you start looking into the stunt world.

I don't know, Yes, stunt world a lot of stunt stuff, like interviews of stunt people.

I was actually listening to this incredible stunt podcast.

Is it the Daniel Radcliffe one?

Yes, it's I first saw the documentary The Boy Who Lived Hunting and yes, cunning stunts, cunning, cutting stunts, that's it, cutting stunts.

This is that podcast that writer Medal and George told us about back in episode four, Cunning Stunts, hosted by David Holmes.

David Holmes with Daniel Radcliffe, stunt double in the Harry Potter movies until he was seriously injured while filming.

Yes, it's a brilliant podcast and he gets incredible stunt people on there, and yeah, that was a huge That was a huge shoe in for me, or like shoehorn for me to get in there.

And then on top of that, like gun stuff on your.

Right.

Well, you looked good holding a gun.

Yeah.

Well, let's let's talk about that scene in the finale, which is like so good.

There's like parkour, you know, there's like gun stuff, there's Eva Longoria's nineteen and one multi tool.

You do quite a few accents as well with your very impressive It amazing.

I kept that in, Okay, I wasn't sure if they would keep that in.

I mean, it was, it was, It was a joy.

And I mean everything that you just mentioned is like five different things that I've always wanted to do specifically on screen, and I never thought that this one role would allow me to do all of those things and in such a fabulously exciting way.

It was really fun.

All of those elements that you just described almost had nothing to do with each other.

It just happened to be in the needs and the the goals that we were trying to achieve with that final that final big scene for Marshall for Rex.

But all of it was like as TV world is like kind of last minute, you know what I mean.

Like I had one session with our the gun experts who brought in the specific rifles that can unscrew and screw, and there was like, you know, like ten fifteen minutes before around to be like, hey, this is how it works.

Like welist to try it out a couple of times.

But that's the beautiful thrill of you know, TV work especially is it's kind of demands an instant expert mindset.

It is something I've gotten in grad school from a brilliant professor, Jim Calder of Mine, about like, no matter what the assumption is, just know exactly what you're just pretend you know exactly what you're doing, and then go on from there, skip over all the steps where it's like I've never done this before.

I've never had to screw a rifle together.

And then like you know what I'm saying, Like, sure, but I've watched a bunch of YouTube videos.

I have been to the Range a couple of times.

Okay, I mean this is how Rex and Marshall did it too, So until you make it.

Right truly, I mean that's right, that's right.

I was just so into character.

I was just living and breathing this philosophy.

Well.

Actually, coincidentally, the reason I've been to the Range last time was because of my small role in Civil War, the film where I played a sniper in that, you know, one tiny scene, and my friend Carl Glessman and I we in preparation for that.

We were like, oh, that's fun to range in La and and just and then we also had a consultation with a military expert.

Raymond was out there and all of that.

Somehow, you know, it's like slum Dog Millionaire works, Like.

All of these tiny things are coming in to be like, yes, this is the moment where I get to use this expertise, or like, you know, my research that I've done the Parker I mean, who the hell?

I just love I love Parkour personally, and have I been jumping around cities all over you know, since my teenage should be yelling parkour.

Yeah, absolutely, I've been doing that, and then to suddenly be able to seriously do parkour, I'm like.

Are you kidding me?

Yeah?

It was such a throw.

Obviously, I was like, I understand that I'm thirty four now, and I'm like, I don't want to get hurt, and my knees and ankles are not what they used to be in my mid twenties.

But we had an incredible stunt team.

I mean the stunt episode at the Bar is testament to that is phenomenal team, and Swow the stunt double was incredibly helpful with like here's how you make it look cooler, or like here's how to do this safely.

But it was awesome, you know.

I was like, and a lot of it was collaboration of like, hey, I think I can jump over this bed and then like obviously in my mind I was like I'm not sure if I can, but I was like, I think I can.

I'll try it.

Yeah.

I did it once or twice, and then like one time I didn't jump hard enough and I like my foot landed and then gave out and I kind of landed on my butt a little bit and everyone around me was like, oh my god, are you okay?

And people were like hey, like you know, I could tell people in spaces were like he's doing too much like this, you need this, like he's gonna get hurt, like really.

But then Jamie, Jamie Badan, our director, came up and she was like, look obviously, like you know, I trust you, like if you want to do it or not, but just so you know it looks really.

Cool, that's all you need.

That's all you So I.

Was like, thank you, Jamie, that's all I need to hear, like I did slip.

I know people are worried, but I'm actually pretty confident I can do this and if it looks cool, it's all that matter.

So then we're able to do it a bunch more times and it was.

It was Nobody got hurt, but it was so exciting.

It was so fun to to really collaborate in that way.

And the fucking dialects I was, I don't know if I can curs, but the dialects were justin that was just my own like being spilly of like, well, he's written to try to you know, like a classic through the door, like well, somebody's not here right now, you know what I mean?

And I was like, okay, well what would what would Rex?

What would Marshall think to do?

And I was like, well, there are a bunch of people in this room, right, So then I thought we distinguished them and continue to tell the point that it's like not just me holding Mapel hostage.

I can't believe they kept that in there, genuine.

I was like, there's no way, but I was like, I'll try it.

It was hilarious and they were great, Yeah, very good accents, very impressed, classically trains right.

Hell, it's friendly neighbors, Rudy and Vans.

We want to borrow some sugar.

You know what friendly neighbors do.

Uh, Mabel's nine.

Mabel's not here right now.

Maybe I want to come back later.

We're making sugar chicken, and it's we've never done it before.

We're trying to figure out anything that might work.

Do you have any corn on the cob or or off the cob?

How about one of those little pickles where the.

Girkins or corner shots corner shot shot.

Load if we were kind of busy, I know, I whther it's whatever you have, it's really what we're looking for.

God You're here.

After the break.

Jane Lynch's favorite details in SAS's apartment and the artistry that went into Marshall's fake Beard.

Welcome Back.

One thing that was very exciting for me to see this episode was Sas inside of her apartment.

I don't know why.

I guess maybe just because we'd glimpsed it early in the season, but we hadn't seen her actually in it, and that felt really special.

This is Patrick Howe, production designer.

The interesting challenge was that while we know Sas well in terms of a character that's been consistently on and all for seasons, or all three seasons up to this point, is we've never seen her at home.

We've only seen her at the Arconia or locations.

So the only bit of information you have about Saz is just her personality she reflects in all of her rather witty dialogue to Charles.

So I remember that John wanted it, wanted to reflect her personality but also have quite a bit of air of mystery about it.

So I was able to come up with a sort of olive green color to paint the walls, and it broke my heart to sort of forfeit opportunities for wallpaper.

I worked them in in a few places of some wallpaper patterns where it was plausible within that style of apartment.

But the main living room they were going to see what was going to be.

But so I was able to create a palette that was kind of dark in color in value.

So we got that going.

And then and then things about her personality we were reflecting in the kind of decor.

I mean, John had written the specific thing about displaying pictures of her broken bones, and so we circled around about the ways to do that, and like, is this the actual X rays?

Is it a print of an X ray?

Is it a photo?

You know?

So we finally landed on prints of X rays.

Is fine?

And then we got sort of fancier with it, and it was and I think I met with Kyle a little bit our DP, and of course he would be drawn more to sort of the light box, you know.

So we wound up with that displaying them on an X ray box.

So we bought a Ventaje X ray, Mila found an vnta J X ray box, and and then that became the signature piece of the room.

Is there any special secret thing hidden in Saz's apartment that you know, we just didn't see.

Probably several dozen things there was never a time to see.

But I wanted to make a tribute to the hats that we always see her and Charles in.

So so it'd done a real fun Tibolt that had done some famous series.

Some were of cakes, cakes and little pedestals.

So I just riffed on that of like hats on hat stands, and so there was little paintings of that.

We came up with a caricature of Sas and Charles together that you know, and one of our scenic cards drew that is.

That the one that Jane Lynch told us about she When we spoke to Jane Lynch, she said that John had gifted her a line drawing of Sas and Charles together.

I have it.

I have it.

Let's see it.

I should have put it up.

I usually have it up.

WHOA, that's great.

I love that's amazing.

I love it.

I love it.

It's so good.

I love it so much.

That's fantastic.

So that's where the hell.

So that's where that went.

Of Jane Lynch.

I guess it can stop looking for that now in our in our inventory.

Yeah, both she and Steve Martin really liked that.

Yeah, so that would be that one.

It's it's really great.

That's so character of them.

So we tried to film it up, fill it up with a lot of stunt person related things and motifs that, you know, maybe anyone living in Los Angeles decore wise might gravitate towards certain styles and that stuff.

And is there anything else from that apartment that you remember seeing and thinking like this is some great detail or like I love this information.

I love the the X ray lights.

Yes, yes, it's.

You know, it's like a light fixture of the room and these fluorescent lights go up showing her X rays of all of her injuries and her artificial joints that she had put in from Bulgaria, top of the line, so she had that up there.

Yeah.

Yeah, lots horses and cowboys stuff.

And you guys are from LA, you'll you'll appreciate this.

It looks very much like one of those apartments that are they're kind of big, and they're in courtyard buildings you know we have in LA.

Some of them are small, but the ones on the first floor are always Yeah, the first level are always kind of big, and they have the steps up to the dining room and it's kind of the Spanish architecture, and boy did they And it's probably in Hollywood somewhere and totally you know, like around Wilcox or Willcox and Fountain or something.

Yeah, so iconic.

Oh I've seen those apartments.

Yeah, but the actual apartment was on the sound stage right like the indoor yeah yeah, okay, okay, cool, yeah, yeah, but the exterior they shot in La.

Yeah, and it was an apartment that those of us in La recognize and go, oh, I know exactly where where they right exactly.

She's probably had it since nineteen eighty, you know.

Exactly, she's still paying sixty five dollars a month or somebody.

It's probably right control, yeah, yeah, but the neighborhood is probably a little sketchy now, yeah.

Probably.

And so then we have to talk about your last scene with Charles, which is also just like was as John called it, the kicker at the end, and it was it's like, you know, get a little teary eyed seen when he has to move to the writer's chair.

Sorry, you're missing all this.

Yeah, it would have been nice.

I think this is your chair.

Well, thank you, my friend.

Actually I missed that guy.

He did good.

I know this is just me telling myself I did good, but I'll take the compliment.

Like at this point, he knows everything she's done for him, and he now has done, you know, a lot for her and her legacy, and and.

It's yeah, it's kind of beautiful.

And also at that moment too, you get this sense that it's the last scene between the two of them.

You know that she's going to.

Move on to the great trampoline uh park in the sky, and that he's he's he's going to carry on without her.

I love it in the beginning of the season where he were sitting on the edge of the bed and he says, you are my very best friend.

How am I going to get along without you?

How am I going to live without you?

So that that kind of echoed that.

But I love that when I sat in that chair, Saz was not uncomfortable, was not very comfortable in that chair.

She wanted to sit on her apple box.

That's where she's used to sitting.

Yeah, and the little and the little hat hat office.

Yeah, oh yeah too.

And also there there is one more there's one more scene that I think is really special in this episode, which is when Sas gets shot or and she's with her dying breath, She's like, my number one's going to get you, you know what I mean.

I'm sorry I didne this way.

I just.

I need this.

Where's the script, the one with your name on it?

He's gonna get you?

Who?

Who will?

Why?

No?

What?

Tap in?

Yeah?

Tap in?

I just think that's that's so special.

How is it to die on camera?

How often do you get?

How often do you get to die on camera?

I think I died in a movie called Collateral Damage, like in nineteen ninety nine.

I remember Collateral Damage.

Yeah, I was had my neck broken in the bathroom.

Oh god, by a really little woman too.

I don't know how she did it, but it was it was yeah, it was you know, it was fun.

I got to use my imagination.

What would it feel like to have, you know, the blood going down your throat?

Yeah, that kind of stuff.

It was.

It was fun.

I would be nervous about, like I feel like that's often the scenes that are made fun of, you know, like, oh you overperform it or something, you know, yeah, you overdo it.

Yeah, that would be it's true, but we're in a world of We're in a kind of a world of weird, so anything you do it can be looked at as genius even if it's weird.

True.

Yeah, I feel like on Only Murders specifically, like everything is like a little bit amplified.

Like there's if there's a serious moment, it's always going to come with some comedy.

Right.

Looking back now that we've seen like how the how sas the story ends, how do you how do you feel about the show looking back on it as a whole.

Oh well, I feel, you know, like I'm really blessed and really lucky to be a part of it.

It's a really unique show for all those reasons you've just said.

It's touching and then it's funny, And all of this has to do with John Hoffman and Steve Martin and Martin Short and Selena that kind.

Of group there.

They figured out this.

Dynamic and I'll bet it was probably kind of there to begin with, you know, but they really leaned into it, and John and the writers really leaned into it.

And so it's each season is so inventive, but they've done something that that I think is so important in television that people trying to be outside the box and make things crazy never do.

But there is a if it's going to be television.

The familiarity with places.

And when I was studying theater, they called the unity of place.

So you've got Charles's apartment is basically kind of the constant and it's beautiful to be in flects him so well, uh, anything can be done there.

The murder board is there, they meet there.

Uh, I was killed there.

It's kind of the place.

It's kind of like the bar at Cheers.

It's uh, you.

Know, Monica and Rachel's apartment and friends.

It's kind of an important thing because it's the place that you keep going back to, like the office and the office, and even though that's basically where everything happened, but they they really understand that that apartment is a character in the show, as well as the building and where it is in New York.

But for the most part, it's it says everything for this world, that apartment.

And we like going back to familiar places where everybody knows your name.

That kind of a thing, right, Yeah, And we even get like the uncanny second Charles's apartment, this season, you know, the right exactly.

That the the real imagination for you know, a movie of something that exists on television.

It's so great.

Yeah, it's so funny.

Yeah, it was a joy to be a part of this group.

And you know, John Kaufman is one of the greatest guys.

I mean, he's so talented, and he's so kind and so nice, and so Steve and Marty and so you know, that's the head of this This television's fish and it's you know, it stinks from the head down.

It smells head down.

So yeah, it's it was a joy to be a part of it.

And so many people you know, have been on it and continue to be on it.

I mean, this season is just a cavalcade of some of some of the funniest, most unique people.

So yeah, it's great.

I'm glad to be a part of it.

Yeah.

Well you're such a huge part of it.

So yeah, you know, I.

Appreciate this movie in a whole different way.

Now, I mean, Saz wrote this.

Oh, do you have any any favorite moments from the whole season, favorite memories or anything like that.

Oh, boy, I don't think it's so hard to pinpoint a favorite.

This is Jinha again.

It was just unbelievable gathering of heroes and stars and brilliant minds, and I felt overwhelmed to suddenly find myself there as in like many times I have throughout my jobs, and really lucky to be there.

I feel really really grateful to I have gotten a chance to play this fun, exciting role and with such incredible people.

Was it hard wearing that beard?

Oh you did have some really great I thank.

You so much.

You know my beard was real for most of it?

Yeah, yeah, because I had Funnily enough, they had you know, that character had the fake beard, I guess from the beginning, from its conception, and then coincidentally, it's true a lot of these Asian men can't grow full beards for whatever reason, but I can.

So she kind of worked out.

I showed up yeah with a beard, and I was like, okay, like this works.

I remember like maybe I mentioned this somewhere else, but like Marty came up to me and was the first day and he was like, this is a fake beard, and I was like, oh no, this this is real.

This is my beard.

And it was just for that episode where we had to see it falling apart that it was maneuvering, and then actually, no kudos to Ariel the makeup designer, towards the later half where we needed to jump back and forth between Rex and Marshall.

Yeah, I've never seen this technique before.

I know it exists elsewhere, but he gets hairs mixed with human hair or whatever other types of hair that's good for beards, and then applies like glue on my face and then would like she's a god building a beard on someone's face.

She's like slowly with like the follicle's face, you know, the heads of the follicles touching my face to like literally touch on and build a beard on my face, and then she like shaves it into the shape.

So we had to do that a couple of times towards the latter episodes.

And is that a long process?

Yeah, like maybe an hour and a half two hours.

It usually probably would take longer, but she's so good at it.

But that was incredible because the beard functions and felt like a beard, so I was able to talk.

I totally forgot.

I forgot because it was so real that I was like, oh, yeah, it was just my beard.

It was not, but it moves because like if the fake beards are like you know, it's a strip like an attach that you put on.

But I couldn't really smile like it was, couldn't move my face too much.

But with this fake one that Ariel made, because literally each follicle was attached by glue, I could I could smile, I could whatever with my face without any hindrance.

And yeah, that that was That was also a thing.

You know, I got to do prosthetics, Like how cool this is my step towards the penguin, you know what I mean.

So they have to remake the beard every time, or you take it off and you reapply Wow.

You No, it would be like top of the day and then throughout the day be like, oh we need to like make this part a little bit denser again.

Or but it was pretty incredible.

How how well it lasted?

That's wild?

Yeah, so much, so much modern technology.

In this scene.

No, it's true.

Yeah, it was really really cool.

Which actually, you know what's funn is I think it's so appropriate because this whole season was about Hollywood, so that we got to like employ all of these different techniques and uses like how meta.

Seriously always that's.

True, that's a good point.

That's a good point.

Yeah, and I love that.

I love that fact.

After the break, Loretta and Oliver's wedding and a brand new murder in the building, welcome back.

In this episode, we have an Rconian wedding and you might not have noticed, but there were quite a few familiar faces among the guests.

We spotted none other than John Hoffman at the center officiating the wedding.

We also saw Ben Smith, Alex Bigelow, Madeline, George and JJ.

We are sure there are even more that we missed.

We asked John Hoffman and JJ Filman to tell us about the.

Wedding so exciting first of all, to see a wedding in the courtyard of the Arconia.

It looked beautiful.

There were a lot of special cameos.

And how about our efficient right here?

Efficient lighten up the front row.

Can you tell us about like the culmination of of Oliver and Loretta's love story.

By the way, also, thank you for not killing Loretta.

I feel like you were You guys were teasing it all episode long.

That's very I would have been very this would have been a different conversation if she had been The next murder let me tell you.

Oh gosh, I know the wedding was our Like we felt like this was our dream to watch those two get married, like it was it.

You know.

We we were like what are the ramifications of this?

Like what does that mean?

Like what what does that mean going forward?

But ultimately we were like, we just want to watch them get married because they're.

So perfect together and so in love, and just the idea of it made us so happy.

And it just felt like.

The happiest ending we could think of for the season.

After you know, Charles had been you know, mourning his friend and this this it'd been like a like a these characters had been through so much and just to relax into this purely joyful event was it was for us.

It was just like the treat of all treats to bring all those characters together.

I mean, just little things like Winnie and the stroller, Like I was delighted about.

To see the Suns again.

That was a big deal.

We needed them back.

And Ryan, I mean everybody.

I mean Jeremy Seamus, who who plays Dicky is a great New York actor and lives in New York.

But Ryan Broussard was doing a TV show in Vancouver, and I just we God love them both because I was like, although there's a nice lore, like will do you walk Meryl Streep down the aisle, we won't have a lot of lines, but you know it's a big moment.

So he found his way there, and that these are the little things that could go one way the other when you're in production and sort of like, we may not get him, and I'm like, oh, that's going to sting if we don't have both those boys on either arm.

So it was brilliant that they could make it.

And then I think the thing JJ's saying, which is so right, that joyful thing and all of that, But what felt really right to me is what you guys were saying, which is we knew that the audience was going to be thinking like and we put it in the mouth of Charles and Oliver like throughout the whole episode.

So there is a tension to it as well.

So I think I talked to a journalist a couple of days ago who had seen the finale and and she said, I watched that wedding sweating.

I was like, it was beautiful, but I was also like, oh my god, what is it?

Going to happen.

How is she going to die?

How is she going to I was like, oh my god, I'm not going to promise that we're not going to kill Meryl Street, but I also like keeping that option out open.

And in the script they were like, we had really gone a lot farther with that story, and I think we cut those beats, you know, for production reasons, and that it was so unwieldy the episode.

We just had so many things we wanted to do.

But do you remember the scene of her like in the alleyway behind the Arconia putting garbage in the dumpster and going who's that?

Who's that?

We were really like we'd lost.

The thread, but we were just having fun with playing with the audience, who, you know, at this point knows what you know the end of every season, what's coming, and we're all so emotionally wrapped up in Loretta and Oliver and it just I don't know, it was we had fun with it.

At the end of the day, I think the balance of it is just right.

You know.

We did a location Gosh mapped out to do that scene and they were like, wait a minute.

This is.

Footsteps behind her in an alleyway or something.

Threat like, oh my god, we're going to tee it up even further, but all is her not appearing at the end of that aisle, And then Jackie Hoffman letting out a good scream over a roach.

Yeah, okay, where she she's coming?

Yeah, any second another something has.

Happened where.

Sorry I thought I saw a roach.

I still have no idea who is watching them, And we have a new murder and they feel connected and that is correct, and I don't know what you can tell us.

No, there's nice controversy in the writer's room about all this too, which I will only intimate that not go further and not give anyone up.

No, but this show right from the beginning, I made a sort of perfect negotiation in my own head that from learning one season at least of writing a murder story story over ten episodes, that loose ends and things that aren't explained fully are always a part of any story you're telling, So using and collecting up those things and then putting a focus on them.

And I know I've spoken about this in the press, so it got glommed onto by a lot of people who love the show and our fans and everything and are looking for things like this.

Certainly, the idea of Saz doing research for a film, going over to that West Tower through her hand radio, connecting to Helga, understanding about the duden Off conspiracy that Helga was wrapped up in and shared with Saz, understanding what the whole dudent Off mystery over there was, found its way into Saz's script.

As Marshall refers to as he's setting up to shoot Saz, he said, she had put this whole plot line in her script, and it was he dumped it.

He dumped it out of there.

But that's how he knew about the dudent Off apartment.

That's how he knew about the code and everything else, because she had laid it all out as a part of that script.

Because there were plot holes, there were things that didn't make sense.

So she was saying in her first version of the script, this is what happened.

Someone put a sign up on Jan's door.

Someone poisoned Winnie.

Someone did so, and Helga and everyone else might have intimated that someone could have done that, may have done that, but no one, yes, you're right, has admitted to that yet.

So that does remain a loose end at the end of season four.

I'm wondering if there's anything throughout the season that we didn't pick up on.

Like I know that we never asked about John McEnroe in episode five, and that's like a funny little cameo.

Somebody pointed out a bunch of Billy Joel in episode seven that we never asked are their little Easter eggs and things like around the season that you're like that were your favorites or that stuck out or that people have asked you the most about.

This was the most easter egg and extra season.

I feel like it everyone just jumping in to sort of dimensionalize everything, as I say, from our prop department to our writers, to the opportunity to reflect in the way that our characters are doing about themselves through the Doppelgangers, through the movie, someone's writing about them through all of that stuff, but also as writers to sort of look at this world that was created and sort of like to play off of all of that.

You know, I went to school on Long Island.

I have a lot of relatives out there, so playing off of things like that were set up in season one that Charles has a sister that has daughters with d names, you know, being able to like it's all that stuff that feels like, oh, well, what have we set up that we could go with and explode?

And then you know everything the dolls and Merrill's doll.

I mean, these are all of the things I loved throughout the season.

But yes, Billy Joel in that doorbell when we say these things, and you must know it's like that you you put that in a script and then it becomes a whole thing of legality and can we cligar that?

Can we do that?

Will Billy Joel be upset?

You know, all these things and it's months before you find out whether that doorbell is going to sound like that or not.

Is Billy Joel okay with it?

Yeah?

I don't know what thinks of that.

I know he hasn't made in yet.

It's Billy Joel.

Where's Billy Joel on this?

But it is true.

It's this lore that accumulates over the course of these seasons that you find yourself.

We've been doing that lot, just in writing this next season, going back to scenes from seasons past and learning little things that suddenly become really useful and maybe they didn't have that much import at the time.

But it's amazing how they carry all this potential with them, like it's a clue in there.

There could be something we could extrapolate off of that.

I mean, I remember that happening.

Saz had that line in season three about people chatting over the Ham radio.

Maybe it was Charles and how that, you know, spun into a whole thing in season four that we used over about the Ham Radio and it's great.

It's like there's this little box of clues that's just sitting there waiting for you, that lives in the show in a way.

It's what, like this really gonna sound?

So this sounds like a made up line?

I really mean it.

You're in a safe space, no.

Writing a murder like what I've learned writing a murder mystery, because I've never really had done this, and I'm not sure many in the room in our writer's room had because this is a great comedy room as well.

But like writing real murder mystery now that we're heading towards a fifth season of it, you in season four particularly, it felt like in order to do that, you have to be a much better investigator then, So it was really sort of like that process is the same thing that was going on while creating all this stuff.

You're pulling from the clues you've given yourself in previous seasons.

I get it makes sense.

I want to hire you to find my husband.

It's urgent.

Well, we're not a detective for my husband.

Is Nikki Kacimilio?

Who was?

If you believe the.

News I pay very well.

We only investigate murders in the building right there in our name.

What happened to Nikki has everything to do with this building.

To close out this conversation, you tee us up for the new murder, which is our beloved luster or the door guy.

Oh and perhaps the trio becoming sort of private investigators for hire.

What can you tell?

What can you tell listeners for next season about?

I don't know what can you say?

Tell you?

That's all?

Yeah, I'm scared.

Is it to say something spoilery?

John johnsapro JJ did it?

No?

What can we say?

Okay?

So I am excited, very very excited for season five because it's always that dance of you know, we like to go into new territory, but we like to stay true to the show.

We want to sort of use the building and it's people and it's lore in new ways that feel connected to New York and history and our trios stories, how do we progress them?

And this season feels very tied into both of those things already in a way that feels very the show.

And why I say that is because the show has always been classic meets modern, right, two classic comedians meets the most modern of young women in New York City, which is always going back and forth between the classic and the modern.

And here we have at the center of our murder mystery a beloved doorman and a particular symbol of New York history and propriety and respect, and he's been potentially very disrespected.

That buttressed up against and I cannot stop using the word, but I've said it so many times.

People are going to throw a stapler at me one more time, But that buttressed up against this very what is New York today, and in some way for next season, what I'm really excited about is, like we've never done before, We're looking at New York of right now in the headlines literally as we speak, and diving in that direction in a way that feels very exciting.

Well, we're very excited.

Did I do that right?

Did I see you that?

It feels great?

That was beautifully they're palpitating.

You made them excited.

Now we really have to deliver their hearts.

Their hearts are so botressed up against.

There's maximum butcher sing happening.

Thank you both so much for talking to us, and it's time and we're so excited and we really really appreciate both of you and all of your hard work.

Yeah, so much appreciate it.

You guys are the best.

You are.

We love doing these and every time just you know, like when we're in to do these things, they're good, right, Like everybody really gets excited.

Yep.

We handle this so well.

And we love the way they've come out on the other end too.

I can't.

I'm always amazed.

I'm like Molly Shannon, and that one just recently was just like fantastic to hear.

Yeah, all of it.

You guys make it.

We abruptly stopped the recording here because we're uncomfortable with compliments.

But as Richard Kaine would say.

He likes me.

That's how I knew he likes he does.

Like that resonated.

All right, it's time to wrap up this season of Only Murders.

I guess we are going to announce the winners of the Escape Room giveaway for both LA and New York.

But first, here's Hannah from Reddit with what the reddit sphere is saying.

Who killed Lester?

Hello, Maggie, Hey Ryan, and hey everyone listening.

Season four gave us a wedding and a bunch of murders, and I can't believe it's already over.

I'm gonna miss our little cozy murder show while we wait for season five.

And speaking of which, you know the members of the Only Murder subreddit already have a lot of thoughts about what could happen or what they hope will happen next season.

First we have Schleppie J four, who hopes to see Charles keep giving tribute to his friend Sas.

I really hope that Charles gets Sasa's trampoline park going.

He knows how important it was for her, and now we know her ashes will be placed there.

It would be really touching if he completed her life goal.

I know she's finally getting the writing credit she deserved all along, but I do hope they address a trampoline park.

Then we have Missus swoh with a theory about how Loretta could be involved with season five.

Anyone else think that the car Loretta got into wasn't actually the car taking her to her flight to New Zealand?

Why do I feel like the mob is going to kidnap her and that's going to force the Trio to investigate the disappearance of Nicky Catchamelier.

Now, we're obviously all super sad about Lester being the new murder victim, but it also means we'll get to learn a lot more about him in season five, so people are definitely looking forward to that because we love Lester.

User Grouchi Republic seven five eight zero thinks Lester was definitely involved with the Mafia somehow.

Here are their thoughts.

In the finale, Lester was once again letting Oliver know about his dry cleaning.

He's also seen delivering dry cleaning a few times over the seasons.

Lester's also made it clear that he had also been married at the Orconia, so he has been there a long time.

The Mafia wife at the end of season four says her husband's disappearance has everything to do with the building, and just after that of the building's longest tenured person is killed.

I agree with that theory, and I think Lester was definitely involved somehow.

And my personal theory is that Sophia Ketchamlier maybe is the one who killed Lester, so there would be a murder in the building, forcing the trio to look into her husband's disappearance because, as she said, it has everything to do with the Arconia, and who has more to do with the Arconia than its long term dorman.

Finally, we know the show always casts amazing actors, from crazy celebrity cameos to fantastic new emerging talent.

Our members have started to share some of the names they'd like to see next season.

JJ Cross thirty two would like to see Javier Barden as Nicky kay Banji wants Paul rad to come back as another Roy that gets killed.

Mister Bartolozzi would love to see Maria Canal's Barrera play Mabel Aunt as a nod to Selina's Disney days.

Other names that keep coming back are Katherine O'Hara, Daniel Radcliffe, and Robert de Niro, and to be honest, I can picture them all in the Rconia.

Personally, I'd love to see Andy Samdberg show up and that's it for me.

I'm looking forward to season five.

I'm sure it'll be there before we know it, and I'll hopefully speak to you then.

And if you're missing the show during the break, join us on the omit BI subreddit or slash Only Murders Luy.

Thanks so much to Hannah for Reddit for always sharing the talk of the forums.

It's so good.

It's so cool to hear.

What reddit's do, the chaos that's happening within reddit about the Only Murders universe.

We get the download.

We love it.

Thank you so much, Hannah.

By the way, the east Rag in the finale was that case of beer and double Easter egg the wedding decoration on the front of the Arconia.

Okay, thank you, thank you, thank you for all the emails this season.

We've gotten a lot, so many.

We love reading them absolutely and now and now we're doing it.

And now it's time to announce the winners of the Escape Room give away.

Right, that's right, let's do it.

You go, Okay, I'll do New York.

Okay, okay.

Our winners for New York City are Sherry h and Jennifer Why that.

Is correct, and for Los Angeles Morgan H.

And Jackie L.

We will have reached out to the winners to confirm that they can still collect their.

Tickets and if for whatever reason they cannot use the tickets, we will choose again.

We will.

You can hold us back.

That's it for this season of the Only Murders in the Building podcast and.

Also the Only Murders in the Building television show.

Yeah, both are ending now.

Both are done.

That's kind of sad, a little bittersweet, but it's been a great journey.

But we do know season five is being written right now.

We do, and we'll be back.

We'll be back anyway, see y'all soon, see you soon.

Bye.

No, Ryan just waved big across the to nobody, to nobody, good bye bye.

Please send us your thoughts and theories to us at only Murders at strahutmedia dot com.

Though I don't know how many theories there are right now.

Yeah, people have theories.

Okay, thanks so much for listening.

Take a minute to subscribe, read the show, follow us, leave us a review if you haven't done that yet.

If you enjoy listening, Yeah, Only Murders in the Building podcast is a production of straw Hut Media, hosted and produced by Ryan Tillotson and Maggie Bowles.

Associate producer is Stephen Markley.

Original music by Kyle Merritt and Only Murders in the Building theme music by Saddartha Kosla.

Assistant editor is Daniel Ferrera and production assistant is Carolyn Mendoza.

Thanks to Jin, Jane, John and JJ for talking with us.

That's Jin Hall, Jane Lynch, John Hoffman, and JJ Philbin.

Also thanks to Patrick Howe for talking to us.

And a big, big thanks as always to John Hoffman and the entire Hulu team.

We love you all.

Goodbye, See you next year.

Yeah, wow, leaning forward, JJ, because the microphone is very exciting.

Oh, we had someone reach out and ask if the series is based on stings or the police's Murder by Numbers, So just float that in the in the Murder's room.

Maybe for season five it's I sing called Murder by Numbers.

Yeah, no, it's it's uh, it's not it's not very good.

It's not a very good theory.

But then I was remembering every breath you take and I'll be watching you, and I was like, hold honest, sting the mastermind here.

So you know, my god, did we ever.

Okay, did you ever acknowledge that?

I don't even know if if anybody acknowledged it, but it's too long ago.

How many years ago was season one?

I mean, I don't know, but.

People really quickly.

That's what previously honest were.

Yeah,