Hi, Catherine, it's Thursday.

Ye it's Chelsea Lately Day.

I mean sorry, Dear Chelsea Day, Dear Chelsea Lately, Dear Chelsea Leader.

It's all the thing, you know what.

I always thought that was a brilliant piece of branding.

That it is, like everything you do has your name in it.

It's beautiful.

Well, you know what, it's really hard to come up with titles.

So I ran with you.

You were just I'm planning a big tour next year, a big stand up tour, and we were going around titles because tour names usually don't have my name in them.

Okay, they usually are words, so this isn't unusual.

But you're right.

Everything I don't know is it good branding or is it a fucking annoying.

What did I have to say?

Oh I had something I was going to do that I actually have something to tell you.

Okay, great hit me de may.

I've been taking Spanish sloshs this three times a week and I almost started crying during my class this morning because it was I was so frustrated.

That's what she's dealing with?

Was it subjunctive?

A fifty year old woman who's getting emotional about not understanding certain things.

Now she just only speaks to Spanish, so I'm missing half of it.

I mean, I'm assuming I'm going to get it some time.

But whatever, Yeah, you just gotta smile a nods sometimes.

But I read this article yesterday that I was like, I have to tell Chelsea about this.

It was in the cut and the title is this economist crunched the numbers and stopped dating men, and she's never been happier.

All I see on social media is that how happy women are who are alone, single and child Yes, it even goes on to how much.

Longer we live.

I'm not trying to live longer, but I know that I'm talking, well, you're gonna.

Live like one hundred and twenty.

But she talks about like she did the research, and she was like, I could actually be doing she was married to a man.

She goes, I.

Could actually be doing less domestic labor if I was single than being married to a man.

And now she's married to a woman and they are co parenting beautifully and having a great time, and.

They get along and they actually can actually into it what the other person might need ahead of that person asking.

I mean, I was just training with ben Bruno.

My I went on to say, I'm at eighty five percent from all of my medical issues this year, so I'm now back training with my foot is healing.

Everything's good.

I'm doing so well.

I decided to pop over to a visa for the weekend for her friend's birthday celebration.

So I'm leaving tomorrow night this weekend, Yes, this weekend.

I decided, you know what, fuck it, I'm going to go.

I was like, I can't go, and then I was like, I'll gick up for a couple of days and then I have to go to New York anyway, because you know, the US Open is starting and I have some shows in Westampton.

By the way, there's still shows tickets for the twenty second August twenty second Westampton.

I've been staying with my friend Kat, who is a home She should be a home healthcare nurse is what she should be.

She is so such a caretaker, you know, and it's that.

You've needed it.

I could take care of people.

In financial ways only that is what I and Pep talks, you know what I mean, like emotionally, philosophically, that kind of thing.

But when I started staying there, because of course my house is still not done.

The new date is August twenty fifth, when I returned from New York, and we'll see about that.

So anyway, I was, oh, when I moved in with her, I was like, listen, I she cooks all the time.

I was like, I really would like to learn how to do a couple of basic things, like I want to be a little bit more self sufficient.

So she started out showing me like little things to do when you're cooking, and how to use an air fryer, how to use an oven properly, like you know, I don't have the attention span like my brain.

Just I found a word that describes me today.

This is unrelated to my domesticity or lack thereof.

It's called enumerates.

Somebody who doesn't understand math, like I can multiply divide very quickly, like my cousin Molly can't act.

She she if you go, If I say, okay, it's three o'clock, we have to.

Be somewhere at six, she uses her fingers.

She's like three four And I'm like, okay, I'm sart.

Yeah, yeah, she's very smart, but like I'm like what And I'm like you know, I want to meddle with the multiplication tables when I was in like third grade, like any multiplication.

I mean maybe not four digits, but you know, but anything that's like long division over my interest rates anything like that.

Fuck recoop.

I don't understand, you know.

So anyway, I went and moved into Kat's house.

That's who I'm staying with, my friend Cat, and she was started showing me little things to cook, like basic recipes that I.

Could make, and then something within like.

The first week, we just started going out ordering takeout.

And then last night she's like, I haven't cooked since you.

Moved in, basically, And I'm like, I know I've broken you.

I've made you into me, like I've turned you into me, like you know, bring us things in people, and half of the stuff I get delivered, I don't even eat.

It's so wasteful, right, And so last night she did cook for us, and I haven't learned anything.

I mean, I think I know how to use an air fryer, which will be helpful if I ever moved into my actual house.

There's actually a shoot at my house on the twenty fifth of August.

Fingers CROs, I mean the construction company just has to know that.

But I've tried this move before where I'm like, okay, I'm moving in, ready or not?

Here I come.

So that was six months ago.

That was six that was six months ago, and then six months before that.

But who's complaining?

Because my life I'm beautiful and fun and I've been writing in my gratitude journal every morning.

I have two gratitude journals.

You write down like three things that you you know would make today a great day.

Then you make write down three things you're really appreciative of, and then you write down like your mantra, your three whatever, three things you want to say to yourself that day.

And then at night you get it and you're like, what are what are three highlights of the day.

It's like takes less than five minutes.

Love that.

And then I do my full one, like where I write down twenty things I'm grateful for, however many the page will fit.

And that's helping most days.

But today I started off, you know, I did that, and then I took my Spanish my zooms.

It really pissed me off, and then I went to Ben Brunos and I got my strength back.

And now my hair's wet from sweating because I took a shower before my workout instead of after my workout.

I do things a little differently around your people.

Okay, working backwards.

Well, guest today she is all about the Psychology of your twenties.

Oh, yes, yes, this is good.

This is yes, all about the Psychology of your twenties podcast.

She is the host of an author of a new book, Person in Progress.

Please welcome, Gemma.

speG Hi, Gemma.

So nice to meet you.

Yeah, lovely to meet you.

But as well from America to Australia.

Doug is coming into Say hello, Doug, say hello, Say hello Doug.

Doug.

You have to look the other way.

I love every time we feed him, he comes over to thank me.

Oh he comes over to say thing.

Oh no, actually I think he wants food anyway.

So Jemma hosts a podcast called the Psychology of Your Twenties, and you talk about you have a lot of interesting subject matter and chats about what it is like to be in your twenties today.

And first I want to ask you what.

You think is the difference between being in your twenties today versus previous periods of times.

That's like the million dollar question, right.

I feel like if I could answer that in one word, it would be there is more more, more, more technology, more opportunities, which is amazing, but then also more competition, more of a choice overload, more pressing threats from the economy, from the climate.

I think that there.

Are ups and downs, right, there is it's kind of giving with one hand, taking with the other.

As a generation, you know, we have a lot more freedom, We have more options in terms of who we say it, how we express ourselves, what we want to do for work, but that can also come with a lot of downsides and a lot of additional stresses that maybe previous generations didn't have to deal with.

It always comes back to social media for me, right, because that's pretty much the real biggest, the biggest difference in our society is that everyone knows what everyone else is doing and when they're not invited, which I think when you're in your twenties you still care about that stuff.

I mean, I think there's a lot of people in their fifties that still care about that stuff.

So one of the things that you talked about recently in one of your episodes was about the ability to handle being disliked or the just ability to be disliked.

So what did you learn from talking about.

That so much?

It's kind of scary what you just said, that you still care about that at fifty sometimes because I was hoping that I would age out of that conundrum.

I think I think many people do, and then some people don't.

It's just like anything else.

I remember growing up and having my friend's parents be so invested in my friend's life, like I remember her mom.

I had two friends and their moms were just so interested in everything and wanted to orchestrate everything and be involved in every party and wanted to know everyone who had a crush on every And I was like, these women are reliving out there, living out their fantasies vicariously through their own children, like alpathetic.

But then you know, you get to be that age.

I mean, I don't have that problem because I don't have children, so I'm not like trying to live vicariously through them.

But I've definitely seen some of my friends be trying to live out their fantasies through their children.

Yeah.

Sure, so that's a different beast.

I think it all comes back to like this very human, very instinctual urge to just be accepted and to belong and to feel like you matter.

Like one of my favorite quotes or ideas is that the only thing that anyone wants is for someone else to bear witness to their life.

And that doesn't have to be a romantic partner.

It could be friends, it could be your colleagues, anyone around you.

You want to feel like if you were gone, people would care, and so that fear of missing out and that fear of being disliked, I think comes back to that very primal need.

You know, any of those instances where you weren't invited to the party, You know, you weren't invited to your friend's wedding even though you thought you were really really close.

Those are all instances where you're like, Okay, maybe my perception of my social circle wasn't accurate, And that's really scary because that could mean that come the end of my life, come tomorrow, I could be a lonely person, especially as like in your twenties, I think I've noticed that further along I've gotten into my twenties, you're not quite sure yet how to ride the wave, Like your first big friendship breakup, is like huge and like life altering because you've never experienced it before.

But you know, my mum such a wise woman.

She was like, by the time you get to like my age, like you've had that happen and you know that you're gonna survive.

Maybe like in your twenties, you just don't have that experience.

Yeah, I don't know if that's something that you found absolutely.

I mean, and the more you experience anything, the more used to you you get.

You know, it's just like going to prison and getting a only benetraated every single day, and but that didn't happen before you.

Were in prison, and you're like, oh my god.

And then all of a sudden, a few months go by and it's five pm and you're like, Okay, my boyfriend's coming over, and that's what's going to happen in my life.

So, I mean, unfortunately, the human condition.

What is amazing about the human condition is we can almost acclimate to anything.

I think it's really all about a sense of self and it's about how much inner work willing to do between the ages of twenty and fifty to get to a place where you are so confident and secure in who you are that you aren't really swayable or as vulnerable to outside sources as you are to your own self esteem.

You know, like how you feel about yourself is more important than how others feel about you, and how you feel about yourself is more important than getting invited to something.

But I know that's more of a you know, kind of philosophically spiritual way to look at things when you actually have enough experience, And we've kind.

Of talked about this before, where it's like that doesn't necessarily just happen because you get older.

It is also something you have to put effort into and work to grow toward.

Yeah, because we can get upset about really small shit, right, Like you can get upset about the dumbest shit, and you can also choose to not get upset about anything.

You could get delayed and your flight.

You'd be at an airport for five hours waiting for a plane and be in a perfectly happy mood and read a book and occupy yourself, watch a fun show whatever.

Or you could be a fucking cunt about it and be sitting there screaming and pissing and moaning.

You know what I mean.

I guess you think sometimes you would outgrow that behavior, but it's also your personality and what you're willing.

Like I used to have a very rageful, crazy reactive personality.

Now I go I.

You know, if things aren't going well or if I'm upset, I go within.

I don't act out.

I take my business upstairs and deal with it myself like a big girl.

You know.

I wish I had those tools when I was younger, But I don't think that's every twenty year old.

I mean, some twenty year olds are pretty mature.

And I'm sure you know because you're doing this podcast, so you talk to a lot more people in their twenties.

Oh one hundred percent.

And also like we all have our hot we all have our thing, so I'm gonna like fully call myself out.

I really have never had a problem with people not liking me, Like that's a big one for me, and I say it as such a blessing.

Also, you kind of have to have that attitude if you're gonna do what we do right, like having a somewhat public face, having people know what you're doing.

I've just never had a problem with it organically, but when it comes to other parts of my life, I really really suffer when it comes to like anxiety over the future, overthinking my future.

That's something I wish I could turn off.

And then there's other people who will be like, oh, you know, I am paralyzed by this idea of people not liking me or whatever it is.

But I have like no worries that I'm going to figure it all out, Like I don't worry about the future, Like what are you talking about?

You know?

I don't think about like really big questions around like where I'm going to turn up, What's going to happen?

Am I going to be Okay?

I don't worry about money.

So I do also think that it's personality, and then it's just like whatever your brain I think the insecurity, like whatever your big insecurity is is what it latches onto.

So maybe like anger is like, oh am I worried that I'm not going to be in control, and so I have this like very vibrant emotional reaction because it feels like the biggest thing I could do to bring anything back into my control or any number of things like that, where it's like it all links back to personality, but also in security and individual differences about what is your heart and what is your kind of journey through that as well?

You're saying heart like heart like you're like you're.

Like your heart like a big hard rock, Like what is your heart?

Okay?

I don't know if I was like, Okay, she's staying hard.

Okay, we don't use it that way.

So that's good to know.

I'm glad you explained that you talk about breaking up friendships, which is a good subject matter because that happens at any phase in life to people.

And I guess the first time it is the worst time, right.

It's kind of like it can be very hard to recover from that.

So what have you did that happen to you?

Yeah, And it's happened to me a few times, and I will say there did come a point where it happened like maybe three times in a year, and I had to be like, I'm the problem, Like this is not this is a me thing.

It was a especially at like this very pivotal point in my life when I was leaving university college and I basically had this huge falling out with my roommates, with this person who had been my best friend throughout my college university days.

Like best friends, we thought we were going to be each other's bridesmaids.

She was going to be the auntie to my children, and I think the reason it was a breakup, but it felt more like a fizzle.

It felt like we'd fallen out of love with each other, that there were these things that had always bothered us about each other, almost like a relationship that we just kind of swept under the rug because we were friends, when maybe if that was in a romantic relationship, it would have ended decimated the relationship sooner.

But because it was a friendship, everything was a little bit less, just a tiny bit less intense, and it was this fizzle, and then it was this huge break where I just never heard from her again, never heard from her again, almost overnight, and never really knew why.

And then you have to kind of go back and examine your behavior.

And recently I actually saw her.

She lives in Sydney now, which is where I live, and it was actually quite a beautiful moment.

I was like, do you guys have sushi train?

We don't have it, but I know what it is, Yes, explain what it is.

Well, basically I'm pitching anyone who's listening.

The best big franchise Idea for America, which is basically a tiny train like you sit it like a counter, and this train carrying all types of sushi like comes around and you can like pick what you want.

It's sounds wonderful.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know what you're talking about.

Yeah, that is it's vital for the story.

So I'm sitting at one of these and it's kind of like onto the street.

Like where I'm sitting, you can kind of see out these glass doors, and across the road I see her and her obviously her new boyfriend, and we haven't seen each other in probably two to three years at this point, and they're standing at the lights and she's like looking at him and she just looks so happy, so happy, And I had this huge inclination to like go out and run to her and be like I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, like I miss you, yea, I know, it's been a long time, and I just kind of left it.

I was like, she everything's worked out for her, she's got this beautiful boyfriend.

She's in this beautiful city on this you know, the main street, like she's probably going to get dinner, and I think it's also those moments where you realize how, like with most breakups, you mature from it, you get something from it, even then when it's really really painful, And that was just like a beautiful full circle moment for me.

It's nice the sushi train.

Yea at the sushi train.

I do.

I love what you say about like you needed to examine your behavior in that moment, because there have been a few relationships that fizzled like that, and I wonder you know there are certain times when like, yes, I'm the problem, and other times when you just find yourself outgrowing a friend group or outgrowing a friendship.

And what would you say?

Are the ways that someone can tell, like am I the problem?

Am I the asshole here?

Or maybe you just outgrew these folks.

That's a really really great question.

I think the best way to tell is is your life changing?

Is there something about your life right now that is causing your transformation or an evolution or do you feel like you're the same that you've always been.

Maybe that's actually why your friendships are also fizzling, because you're stagnant, you're unhappy, like you're kind of taking things for granted.

The other way, I think it's really easy to tell if it is you.

That's the problem is the level of like conflict.

Now, I'm going to say this, for women, conflict does not look the same in their friendships as it does for men.

And I was talking to my partner about this, about this like kind of fight that two of my friends are having at the moment.

Are very like, it's very intricate, And he was like, how how did you even know that they were fighting in the first place, like when you were in this room with them, when you were having dinner, And I was like, it's the pauses, it's the silences.

Like You've got to remember, conflict isn't an all out fight, it's are they avoiding you?

Like, are these people perhaps excluding you, not because they don't like you anymore, but because maybe you're just bringing a really negative bad vibe or because you've done something that's offended someone that you haven't owned up to.

Those are some of the more subtle signs I think that there's conflict to miss.

Yeah, I feel like most men just like can't pick up on those subtle things, like.

Just those nuances all for sure.

Yeah, And I think another topic that people are obsessed with and it doesn't I guess it starts in your twenties, but it probably starts earlier than that, is falling in love.

And I know you've talked about this on your podcast, Finding Love and the idea that they may not find it, which I find to be just a silly, silly notion because I've never met anybody that's never been in love, you know, unless they're eight, So I find that most people do find love.

Do you feel like it's different?

Oh, it's a really great question.

Honestly, I wish that you could come on my show and tell people that because I perfect, like I think, I just don't believe it coming from me because I'm not older.

And why has people writing and all the.

Time that people are constantly asking that this that on our podcast, But I just always also, I just feel like it's one of those facts of life, like it's going to happen.

And the longing and the pressing and pushing for things.

It's like it's one thing to have an intention for something, but to be actively constantly pursuing it almost defeats the intention of what you want, you know what I mean, if you spend so much time almost it's almost like it becomes like you're begging for something and things happen in a natural way, and like you have to kind of accept that that's one of the natural things that happen in life, and that it will happen like it is very likely to happen, more likely than unlikely.

Here's the thing, though, I think with everything else in our life, right, we're told to be really like go for it, really proactive, and to have like a five year plan, to have all these other things like if you want something, if you want the promotion, work for it.

If you want the dream house, save for it.

And then when it comes to love, you're right, you can put yourself out there, but there's nothing that you can really control.

Sometimes.

That's where I think the fear of never finding anyone comes from, is that it's unpredictable.

There's not like a there's no structure for finding your soulmate the way that there's a kind of a structure for finding all the other things that you really want in life.

And I gave this analogy to someone the other day, which is like, remember when you were in high school and you just couldn't wait to graduate, and you thought about it like all the time and you were like, oh my god, I just wish that I could be done with this and you know what's going to happen, right, But there is still this like longing that is filled with time, and it's like within that time where you want to make plans, you want to do fun things that you just want this final closure of like I'm going to graduate, I'm going to find the love of my life before the rest of your life kind of starts.

Does that make sense?

It does, but it's just so backwards when I hear that, it's like before your life starts.

I remember thinking that when I moved out to LA I was like, when my life begins, and my life will begin when I have a career, That's when my life begins.

And all those years leading up to getting the career are part of my life too.

But for some reason at that time, they didn't feel like it was like, when I become successful, that's when everything starts.

That's when it begins.

And I now realize how silly of a mindset that is, because yes, I was driven, but I also missed out on a lot of being present and enjoying the time and the ride and the climb and all of those things.

It was always a means to an end.

It was always a temporary part of my life.

And I'm not sure if that attitude got me to become successful or if I could have, or if there was more to be taken out of like more of a bite to be taken out of life at that moment, you know.

I think when we have our minds so focused on our goals, we can sometimes like miss the forest for the trees too much focus.

Sometimes it's one thing to have an intention and.

To know this is what I want to do with my life and take steps to get there.

But it doesn't have to be every facet of your being, just like finding a love doesn't have to require like all of your effort.

It can happen in a natural, easy going way when you have a natural, easygoing attitude about things, which I don't think you get when you're in your twenties.

I think that takes time to build.

It does feel like one of the defining feelings of being in your twenties is that feeling of like, well, my life hasn't started yet, or I'm falling behind, and like am I doing enough?

And I'm not where I thought I would be by now.

It's almost overwhelming.

We get a lot of emails about that as well.

Oh my goodness, I feel that way as well all the time, and it's exactly the same.

It's like the predominant feeling.

I want to say something that based on what you was saying, Chelsea, And it's the story of how I met my potna because I totally believe in your philosophy on like a full dating detox, Like didn't date for a long time.

It was just like I just I'm gonna not gonna leave space for it.

And then I think it was like six months to a year later, I was in like Bali with all my friends and they had all come out of these like terrible breakups, and they they just wanted to, you know, have sex.

They just wanted to get laid, like they just wanted to have the fun holiday experience.

And I was like, yeah, I'm gonna get it on that and I redownloaded the apps.

The first person I match with hit it off with.

It just happened, and we've been together for two years now.

I love it almost longer.

And I think it's that like just let it, just let it be but the actually what your point was is in your twenties.

It's kind of like, but when is the like when is the letting it be starting?

Like when is the chill time starting?

Like can I do that now or is that going to like take away from the planning time later?

Is that going to take away from like the fun successful times in my thirties if I like take a time, if I take time off, if I take a break, if I'm not doing everything the way that everyone else is The thing I always say, though, is like what's this finish line?

Why racing twys well?

Right?

Because it's like your life is if your life doesn't begin until you're what thirty, Like if you're in your twenties preparing for your life to begin, when does it begin twenty five thirty?

And then what happens when you're forty fifty you're dead?

Like what is the cycle of like the thought of a twenty year olclerus.

I know when I was twenty, I never thought beyond five years, Like you know what I mean, It wasn't I'm sorry, I never thought beyond five months.

You know, I thought about the future, but the future was way beyond five months.

And the immediate future was, you know, the real day in, day out of everything.

So I don't know.

I wonder if more like.

Younger people were able to kind of not be so I mean, I don't want it because I don't want it.

To confuse it with the word lazy, I don't mean being lazy.

I mean being very clear about what you want in life and knowing it, but without being crazy aggressive about it.

I guess what I'm saying, And I think a lot of people would probably disagree with that because a lot of people would say you have to be crazy aggressive to get what you want.

Oh, I don't agree at all.

I think that like having passion and genuine love for what you're doing is more important than discipline because you're actually fall in love with the process.

I also think the biggest thing that hassued that anxiety that you were explaining around like thinking way too far in advance, thinking that life ends at thirty or forty, was having age gap friendships, with being friends with women and men who are a lot older than me.

And I have this amazing friend called Emma who I do pottery with, and she's in her fifties.

She has two kids who are almost my age, the amount of just solid advice that she gives me, and just perspective of being like, what are you talking about?

My fifties are like the best years of my life.

I'm having more fun than I've ever had, I'm more relaxed than I've ever had.

It just suit so much of my anxiety that I think, and I'm saying this and it's gonna like almost I'm gonna stab myself in the back.

Like sometimes another twenty something year old can't tell you that because they don't have the experience of that time.

Does that make sense?

Like, yeah, it's really important.

I mean, I think I guess it goes back to what you were saying at the beginning, which is everybody wants to be seen.

Everybody wants to be you know, valued, and everyone wants to matter because if you don't matter, then you feel invisible.

And so that's very common.

And I think that starts early.

You know, that starts like when you're a teenager, because that's that's when that because when you're a kid and you have your parents and if you if you have an ideal childhood, you're getting all this love and attention, you don't have time to think about anything else.

But if you if you have a single parent, or you don't have two parents, or you're not brought up in a loving home, then your circumstances could be different.

You know, earlier on you.

Could start to feel alone or I think the feeling people jump to is to is it's more of a survival, right.

It's survival.

You have to survive whatever circumstances you're in.

And I think in your twenties the idea of survival becomes a little bit more abstract, you know what I mean.

It's not real survival.

It's like social survival, love survival.

You want to you you think everything is the most intense it could ever be, and everything is so much more important than it is, even though certain things aren't fucking important.

It's a kind of the over accent of importance on everything.

I think that's what I definitely don't miss from my twenties is thinking like the end all be all, Like there's one love of my life.

There's going to be one love and he's gonna understand me and he's going to be my soulmate, you know, which is a pile of garbage.

There isn't who wants one lover or anyone bunch of yeah.

Exactly like my sister's my soulmate, you know the one I'm talking about.

And yeah, I think there's just a lot of I would hate to be twenty years old today.

And I don't want to say that because I'm sure twenty year olds are fine, but I when I think back at my twenty year olds, I'm just like, oh my god, there was there was nothing like this shit that you guys have to deal with.

Gumma, are the twenty year olds fine?

No?

No, the amount of like the anxiety levels are just like through the frickin' roots.

I mean, I don't even think I understood what anxiety was until like a few years ago.

Same and because it was, you know, the over explanation of it.

In society now almost everyone has anxiety, which is causing me anxiety, you know so, and you want to.

Think about why that is?

Right, Like, I always get these comments from people who are a lot older, being like, what do you have to worry about?

Like, you don't have kids, you don't have you know, a mortgage.

You don't have any of these things.

And I'm like, look at the environment that we're living in.

Look at the context.

How could you not be an anxious wreck right now?

Like nothing about our environment is stable?

Yeah, it was so overstimulated.

Everything is constantly changing.

Read any newspaper, it's horrific.

Like, how as a generation that's like now responsible for that future?

Guys, we're getting very deep here, but you know you feel responsible for that future.

You are the future.

How are you meant to feel sane knowing that everyone thinks it's going to shit?

Right?

Like, I don't know.

I just feel like it's a that's a common reason for the anxiety levels, and then you have to.

Worry about like what your dream job is?

Like what?

Well, on that note, should we talk to some people with anxiety?

Yeah, definitely.

Okay, we're gonna take a break and we'll be right back with Gemma's Bag.

This week, we'd love to hear from people who perform and drag.

If you're a drag performer and have questions or would like some life advice from someone who's an expert on the topic, please write into Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com.

And when we're back with Gemma's Bag, Okay, what do we get our back?

Well, we're gonna start with a couple of callers today.

Our first caller is Michelle, and Michelle says, Dear Chelsea.

I'm twenty five years old, and over the past two years, I've questioned my sexuality and recently accepted that I'm gay.

I haven't told many people, and I'm not sure when I will fully come out.

I live in a small town.

It's a cute mountaintown where I can do all the things I love, like trail running, climbing, and skiing.

I've met some great people and have formed some really meaningful relationships.

I have also been given a huge career opportunity here.

I was recently asked to be a partner in a business that I really believe in and care about.

However, since coming to terms with my sexuality, I have struggled with the idea of staying in my small town.

I don't have many friends in the queer community here, and I've recently realized how important it is to have that.

I can't help but think I might be happier living somewhere bigger and more diverse.

However, the work opportunity is keeping me here, at least for the time being.

We've discussed opening locations in other cities, but I just don't know how well that would go over with my boss.

I just don't know if I can stay here long term.

Is it crazy to want to try something that I don't even know would be worth it?

Should I risk the opportunity that I have now?

Any advice is so appreciated.

Michelle Hi, Michelle, Hi, Hi?

How old are you?

I'm twenty five?

Oh?

Perfect?

This is the perfect age range.

This is literally right up my alley.

Yeah.

Do you mind telling you what what mountain town do you live in?

Or is that too?

Are you going?

I live in Jackson Hallwayoming.

Oh my god?

Nice?

You see, we were going to say that.

I thought's crazy.

I was as soon as you said mounttown.

I was like, Oh, she's from Jackson holl Okay, anyway, I'm.

Not from there, but that's that's where Yeah, that's where I live.

I understand that you live in a small mountaintown, but I feel like you're Do you have any information that leads you to believe that your coworkers or your boss is going to have an issue with you being gay?

No?

No, no, no, no, So that's not the problem.

What is the problem.

You think You're not going to find enough community there, right right, I see, I feel like you have a great job opportunity that already sounds like it could bleed into like going to a different city and opening up different franchises or whatever the business, you know, different outposts in different cities.

I wouldn't want you to project what you think is going to be the result of your sexuality before you find that out.

Do you know what I'm saying?

Like, have you really given yourself a chance to be out and about in Jackson Hole, in your job, in your community?

No right to good point?

Actually yeah, I guess my issue is also I have a gay.

Brother, which is just a coincidence, but I.

Think that I see his community, and then I see communities like in bigger cities about like all of these other people that have friends in the queer community, and Jackson Hole is just so small that it is so accepting, And that's not the issue.

Like acceptance would be fine.

The issue would be like just having that community there as opposed to like living in a bigger city and having a community.

I guess I just think that you're you're twenty five years old.

You have we were just talking about, you have your whole life out of you, even though I'm sure you feel like you're already halfway in the grave because twenty five year olds think they're fucking old.

But you have your like this is you have a great job opportunity.

I would combine the two things and see how it works out in Jackson Hole with the intention of moving to a bigger city down the road.

Like, you don't have to do that this year.

You could wait a year, you could.

Maybe wait two years, but you don't have to spend the rest of your life in Jackson Hole.

You can stay in this town, develop your job, like see where that takes you, and maybe that will be the vehicle that.

Takes you to another city.

You know, if you give yourself some.

Time to just like chill out and feel the vibe out, you don't know, you could fall in love with somebody in Jackson Hole.

I'm just going to say, I do really appreciate the the being young in the quick community, right, and it feels like that's where it really is when you're like in your twenties and let you're young and queer and like in New York Annuo Leans, like in one of those like Vinrent places, I do think that sometimes it's like life is sometimes series of waiting rooms, and you're probably in this waiting room right now where you're like, can I have it all?

It's like, yes, you can, just not all at the same time.

So you could be in one of those huge cities and being like I'm so accepted, I'm loved, I've got all these friends and we're going to like chapel'r own gigs like super fun and then be like, but my job sucks.

So I think like, right now, it's like you're really coming upon like this major problem in conundrum, which is like how come everything in my life isn't perfect at the same time, Like how come I couldn't have both?

So I really think that you kind of have to like flip the dice here.

What's more important to you right now knowing that you might not be able to have both.

Is it having the community that is brought by like being like gay and like open in like a bigger place, or is it having the career that then you could build that community on in the future.

It's kind of up to you to choose, Yeah.

And I think just like it being so new right now or new to like me accepting it.

H that feels like the like the bigger part is that like it feels crazy to be in a big city where like I could just be open and free and like I don't know everyone at the store when I go to the.

Grocery store every week.

Yeah, like that feels like a crazy feeling.

So I think that's like the desirable thing right now.

But if I were to wait a little while, I think it would be less exciting.

I would also encourage you to get involved in some little community that's in your town, because there might be folks that you don't know oregay or just aren't really out, or maybe they are out and you just didn't know.

But also like maybe there's some travel opportunities here too.

Maybe there's like going to Pride in New York City or a smaller town if that's more your vibe.

There are events all over the place all of the time.

So maybe this is like getting one friend in your community who maybe you can travel with and do that sort of thing.

But I also think like just as you begin to come out to more people, you'll start to build that community, even though it's a small town.

Yeah, I think that's true.

Is there the potential.

Did you say with this job, there's the potential you said of possibly opening up different branches or what was that part.

Yeah, we've talked a lot about being different locations.

Actually, I am also in grad school and having a really hard time finding nurse partitioner clinicals.

So we've talked about just like me moving somewhere for the eight months that I have to do my clinicals to open up another branch.

So that's also an option.

Well, there you go.

I mean that's two killing two birds with one stone or killing no or killing one bird with two stones.

I'm not really sure.

Also, I guess like also hard, like little things like Jackson Hole housing is horrible, so like leaving is kind of scary because then you don't know if you're going to get housing when you come back.

It's just all but yeah, I definitely have the opportunity, and I'm definitely not complaining.

I live in like the most beautiful place ever.

So yeah, but you're in grad school, you've got a gig, you've got a job, Like, you're comfortable with your newfound sexuality.

Like all of these things are awesome to know about yourself.

You're ahead of the game.

So these are all good things.

The future is bright.

You just have to figure out what you're gonna do.

And it sounds like I think I know exactly what you're gonna do.

Yeah, I think.

Yeah, I guess I do too.

Talking it out is definitely beneficial too.

Yeah.

And the most important thing, like the biggest takeaway is it is so important to identify what you want out of life, you know what I mean.

It's so important to hear you say like, this is who I am, this is my sexuality, this is what I want, all of those things.

Saying that out loud is just so valuable, Like these things will all come true for you.

Yeah, so great, have a great life, Michelle, It's gonna be all this.

Yeah, this is all really exciting for you so much.

Yeah, thank you so much for all the advice.

Yeah, for sure.

And enjoy the town you live in while you're there.

Yeah yeah, okay, thanks Michelle.

Okay, thank you.

Take care.

I have so many friends who didn't come out, which, by the way, this is also fine, but like didn't come out until they were in their thirties or even in their forties in some cases, and like this is so great for her.

I'm so excited for her.

What about Will Harper Harper?

What's Harper's last name?

Don't know Harper's last name.

I always I want to say Harper Lee every time, and then that's the author.

But she she, I mean she just came out and when she was in her fifties.

Yeah.

It's so hard though, because it's like there's this whole thing of like being young and queer and like having all those opportunities like living in Sydney, I say all the time, and I live in like Newtown, which is like the gay capital of Australia.

And you see that, and I'm sure she's seeing that and being like that looks so fun and like exactly what we were saying before.

It's like, that's where my life is going to start when that happens.

Like I don't want to wait.

I don't want to wait.

But I think she's gonna I think everything's gonna turn out so perfectly for her.

Yeah.

Yeah, and she'll expand her community when it's the right time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well her next color is ray and she says, Dear Chelsea, I need your advice on being homesick, but also on being too emotionally exhausted to go home.

Here's the situation.

What about five years ago, I moved a little over fourteen hundred miles away from my family, and honestly, the distance worked wonders for us.

It's given us the space we've needed to heal our relationships, and we're all closer than ever.

I miss them dearly, but every time I visit, the goodbyes are oscar worthy tear jerkers.

I've tried every family member for the airport drop off, trying to find the one that won't make a scene, and spoiler alert, they all do.

It's gotten to the point where my return flights are filled with dissociation, panic attacks going through security, and I spiral into a post visit funk that lasts weeks after returning.

Every time I get back to my life, which I might add is going great, it takes forever to remember that homesickness doesn't mean I need to sell everything and move back.

It just means, well, I miss my people, and that's not a bad thing.

It's not just airport drop off either.

Oftentimes I'll visit for a full seven days and we barely make it tonight too before someone's tearing up over the impending farewell.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the love, but I am so tired, exhausted, spent in between wanting to visit more and wanting to avoid the emotional Olympics, and by the time I recover, it's time for another visit and we do this all over again.

I do want to hold space for everyone's emotions and all that jazz, but I'd love to be honest and just say, y'all, I need you to be okay.

Please?

Am I the asshole here for feeling like I need to manage everyone's emotions?

Please give it to me straight?

Ray Hi, Ray, Hello?

Why is your family crying?

What's up?

How many people are there?

What's their problem?

It's like four of us in total, including my niece now, who's starting to be old enough to like feed into all of this emotion that's around her.

A baby crying is going to be that would be so hot.

It's like you've got the adults and then you got the child.

The child.

Absolutely, yeah, No, it's it's not.

It's like I get phone calls every now and then saying like we miss you, when are you coming back?

And they'll be like they'll put her on the phone, and now she's the one who's like, when are you coming back?

So it's a lot I don't know.

And you emotionally depleted because of their emotions or are you also emotionally is it emotionally difficult for you to leave?

It is emotionally challenging for me.

But the times that I've had a friend, like a non biased party, like drop me off at the airport, it's all fine.

Yeah, like the life's fine.

Coming back here is fine, not a big deal.

But yeah, anytime I've had family members drop me off, it's it's okay, so awful.

Do you know how to take a fucking uber?

Yes, But I'm saying like during the times that, like, you know, we're sitting down for family dinner all night, two out of seven, and my dad's just looking at me, tearing up and stuff, thinking about how I'm gonna leave already, you know, it's like I want to be kind of like, guys, get your shit together.

But I talked to my therapist about this and she's like, you need to.

Be grateful that they love you so much, And I'm like, I get that, but I also want.

To but both can be true, right, you can be grateful and also be like get your shits together.

It's not productive and it's clearly not helpful to you when you're leaving and who knows what's going on.

I mean, it's not productive for any of you together and your family to be crying about leaving when you've just got somewhere.

That doesn't make any sense.

So absolutely, and you've never broached the subject with your family.

No, I'm really trying to like let them have their feelings and I'm not trying to like make them feel any.

Type of way.

But it's just getting to a point where it's making me want to move back.

It makes me forget about how good my life is here.

And it's not really like me to want to just like give up everything just to go back and like coddle everybody.

But that's the way it makes me feel.

But that's guilt.

That's guilt.

Yeah, So they're making you feel guilty by their behavior and they're not intentionally making you feel guilty, or maybe they.

Are, I don't know, but that's neither here nor there.

What you're feeling is guilt, and that's not a reason to do anything, do you know what I mean?

You didn't do anything wrong.

You're living your life.

You can't go back and live with your parents because it'll make them feel better, then you're sacrificing yourself.

And there's a way to.

Have like a healthy, balanced visitation with them whenever you choose to go home and also live your fullest, best life, and they kind of have to get on board with that.

What do you think, Jemma, all right, I totally agree.

I totally agree.

I've got some solutions.

I think that Chelsea, you've put now on the head it's guilt.

I really think that they should be coming to visit you a little bit more as well.

I know it's hard with like.

Little kids, but if the main thing for you is like coming back and the homesickness and the disruption to your routine and your like sense of joy with your current life, maybe it would work better if it's like they're in your home, they're in your place.

Your return return after they've left is less of a calm down.

Also loved the advice get like a friend to drop you off.

I have this problem with my family as well.

Oh and it's exhausting, right, It's exhausting.

Yeah, And sometimes I'm like I don't really can I come home for Christmas.

I don't want to deal with that.

And it's love them, Yeah, you love them so much, but you're like, I want to move forward with my life, but I also don't want to lose this relationship that we have that is so beautiful.

What am I going to do?

And I think the way I've really dealt with that is like we're going to meet in neutral places.

So now we go on family holidays together where the experience is like, oh, I'm so sad that we're leaving this beautiful place.

Or they come and visit me fifty percent of the time so it's not as jolting.

And also they appreciate that, like, my life is really lovely.

And if I was to move home, I'm gonna give that up.

If I was to move back to Melbourne, like, I'm not going to have this, and surely that's what they want for me more than they want my presence.

See if they take the bank, See if you can do Christmas wherever you are.

See that's a great idea.

That's a great idea to switch it up so you're not going to their house all the time.

And how frequently do you see them.

It's like once a quarter, once a physical quarter.

Yeah, break it up.

But I also don't think I think you should.

I think there's a way to have a conversation like with your family and not necessarily face to face, like maybe in an email.

Text to ahead of time, not a text that seems maybe like a family email to be Like, listen, you, guys, I know it's emotional when I come home.

I feel the same way about you guys that you feel about me.

But it really weighs heavily on me every time I leave, and I have this overwhelming guilt.

And I know you're not intentionally.

Just let them off the hook right right away, Like, I know you're not trying to make me feel guilty, but it's becoming more difficult for me to visit you if this is how I have to leave, Like, I don't want all these tears.

It's it's you know, it makes it pulls at me, and I don't want to stop visiting you.

So isn't there a way we can figure out, you know, a more like pleasant way to spend our time enjoying each other's presence rather than fearing each other's absence.

Absolutely write that down like I'm taking.

Say, Ray is actually like our first color ever, who's actually writing things down?

Because it's true the family, your family, that's true that the time spent should just be loving and enjoy and a reunion.

Not foreboding and oh no, she's gonna have to leave again.

That's like very fearful, very guilty behavior.

And there's so many nice ways to say that without making, you know, making it something like you know, it doesn't have to be cantankerous or vitriolic.

You're just saying out of love, like it's getting harder for me to deal with leaving, and you know, I have a full life here.

I'm very happy, you know.

So I mean, do they actually put it on the table for you to come move back?

Do they suggest that a lot?

Oh yeah, they're always like we have a room for you, we have some land, we can put you something on, like, you know, if you ever need to come back, you know, we've got spare funds for you to get you back here.

So that's all I mean.

So you should definitely be clear as an adult woman, you should just be clear of being like I also would rather you guys not keep saying that every time I come home.

It's almost like you're ignoring my life and the presence, you know, Like, I have a life, I'm happy.

Don't you want me to be happy.

I'm your daughter, you must want me to be happy.

I am happy, So can you please let me be happy so we can all be happy together?

Yeah?

I think you should like say say that too and let them know, you know, because that's all.

It's all very manipulative.

And even though they're your family and they love you, that's who you manipulate, the people that are closest to you.

That's true.

Have any of them been to visit you yet or not yet?

They've all been out here once, Okay, okay, they've come out here separately in the five years that I've been here.

So there's definitely some opportunity for some more visitation on their end, for sure.

And then maybe you guys can find somewhere to go away for one of the holidays like Christmas one year.

That'd be sad.

Jemma, I really love that.

I love the idea of meeting in like a neutral place.

It's really good.

And then you do activities rather than just sitting at the harm that you go out and do stuff rather than just being like, oh, let's go through the baby album, like.

Yeah, your old room.

It's like no, like, let's go see, let's go to the zoo, let's go like go get coffee.

Yeah, and make sure you don't forget to mention you know how lucky you are to have such a loving family and how.

Lucky you know you are.

You know, absolutely because you are.

Thank you so much for not making me feel delusional, because now I said, I'm getting a second opinion here, because the first time around my advice was like people, I'm like, wait, I.

Am your therapist sucks.

Just gonna tell you that.

Sorry, I know that that's probably not right, but.

You should get any one.

It might be time for a switch up.

It's never a bad thing, all right, Ray, thank you so much listening to this podcast.

So let to send this to her.

It's fine.

Well I see her tomorrow, so I'll we'll sure we'll find out, all right.

Thanks for calling, and good luck with everything.

Thanks so much.

Nice to meet you all.

Bye, nice bye.

Okay, we'll take a break and we'll be right back with Jemma Sbeg.

And we're back with Jabs Beg.

We are back.

So we have one final question.

This comes from Brianna.

She says, Dear Chelsea, I'm a twenty six year old woman, and I've recently started a new job as a marketing coordinator for a small company.

I previously worked as a bartender since I was eighteen years old.

She must be in Canada or something.

I bartended through college and always made great money, so after graduating, I kind of got stuck in the industry and wasn't thinking about looking for a different job.

I started to get sick of it and decided it was time to start a more stable career.

And now that I have that, I'm realizing it may not be what I want.

At my entry level position, I'm currently making less money working eight to five Monday to Friday than I was working maybe thirty hours a week at a bar.

I'm picking up weekend shifts at the bar for extra cash, and I'm starting to feel burnt out.

I'm also struggling with the lack of freedom that comes with the eight to five and feel like I don't have time for things that I love to do, like working out or going to a yoga class.

I hate sitting at a desk all day and it feels like the company I'm working for doesn't have enough for me to do, so I'm extremely bored and feeling very unfulfilled and how there.

Yeah, I also have a passion for traveling and scupa diving, and I know that working in the corporate world will limit the amount of time I can travel compared to being able to take time off whenever I want.

While bartending, I'm torn between wanting to stick it out and give it some time to get the experience and hopefully move up to a different position or company that I enjoy more, and saying fuck it and going back to bartending.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

BS.

Your podcast is currently the only thing getting me through my long, boring days at the office.

Much love, Bran sounds that sounds so boring.

Honestly, that job sounds awful.

I would go back to bartending.

Honestly, you feel like you're adventurous, you want to do more things with your life.

Sitting in a job hoping that you're going to get promoted at some point to a different position, Still be at a desk where you're still if you're not.

Some people are meant to be sitting at desks and some people are not.

I'm not.

I can't sit behind a desk.

I can't even sit on a couch without you know, like this, I have to sit Chris cross apples halls.

I'm like, I can't even do anything.

You know, like I get it.

I totally feel you.

And I would say that's your.

Deep inner self telling you this is not the way you want to go through life.

And if you can go through life being a bartender making probably twice as much money as you're going to make at that entry level office job and working half as much, and I have all that extra time to do all of the things that you want to do, like yoga or scuba dive or travel, then I think it's a no brainer.

What I would say also, is just because it's this isn't the job, does it mean that there isn't another job out there for you that can like use your creativity or your brain in a way that you would be more attuned to do or better equipped to do.

I'll say you should keep thinking about what you what you are passionate about.

You know, maybe you are maybe you're so passionate about scuba diving you want to become a dive master, maybe you're so passionate about travel you want to be a flight attendant or you want to be in some sort of you know, run.

A travel group.

Like you should look to your areas of interests that are really like that take up your time, and and look at job opportunities in those areas.

And you know, what is a great side hustle while you're learning to be a scuba master?

What is a dive master bartending all pay the bills while you're seeking out the thing that you're actually passionate about.

Yeah, what do you think, Jemma?

I agree with everything above.

I will say one caveat.

I have a six month job rule.

So if you're still within that six month period, I know it might sound counter to what you want us to say, but wait out the six months.

You don't know whether it's just the adjustment that's scary or whether it's actually the job.

I know it sounds like it's pretty boring, so I'm guessing that, like, maybe you get six months and you still hate it, but then you can say like, I gave it a shot.

I tried this, it didn't work, instead of leaving after two to three months and being like, maybe I just didn't give it enough time, and then finding yourself in that cycle of like feeling bad and then going back and then hating it and blah blah blah blah blah.

Also like I don't know, I'm someone who hated working a desk job, worked a desk job for like a long time, always knew I didn't want to do it, but I use it as my security net to do something else that was more what I wanted to do.

So there isn't one way to go through it.

You can work the corporate job, get maybe a couple of promotions, start making good enough money to be planning full a new branch to your life.

As of right now, though I'd say maybe time to get out of that.

I think the six month rule is good, you know.

I think that's a good kind of barometer too.

I don't think it has to happen tomorrow.

You know, you can wait a little bit and see, but either way you're probably leaving.

So yeah, that's the story.

All right, Well, Branda, let us know how it goes.

And we can go to rep Okay, Okay, Well, Jemma, thank you so much for coming here with your twenty year old self and giving advice to other twenty year olds.

We really needed it.

Yeah, I'm glad that you guys learnt how absolutely fucked it is for us.

I know, I don't love that part, but I guess I understand it.

But I think every generation, every like you know, is dealing with their own ball of bullshit.

But it always feels like whatever the youngest generation is right now, it has it the worst, you know what I mean, Like before that it was the thirty year olds and now so it's it's really hard to say if it's just that period of your life or if it really if the world is really a scarier place than it was.

And I am of the belief that the world is a scarier place than it was.

Any sense is over, there is no longer innocence.

Yeah, I have to agree with that one.

And Gemma, where can everyone find you?

So have my own podcast It's called The Psychology of Your Twenties.

We talk about a lot of what we spoke about today.

You can also follow me on Instagram at that Psychology podcast or at Gemma speG dema with a J, spg with a B.

And you can pick up a copy of Gemma's new book Person in progress at the link in the description.

Thank you, Gemma.

Have a great rest of your night.

Morning morning, morning, morning, have.

A great rest of your morning, Gemma.

Thanks much, Thanks so much, Thanks bye bye.

Okay, my remaining dates for Vegas.

There are remaining dates for this year.

Summertime is coming and I will be in Vegas at the Cosmo my residency on August thirtieth, and then November one and twenty ninth.

November one and November twenty ninth, I will be in Las Vegas at the Cosmo performing inside Myself at the Chelsea.

It's called Chelsea at the Chelsea for a reason.

Okay, thank you.

Do you want advice from Chelsea?

Right into Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail dot com.

Find full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching at Dear Chelsea Pod.

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