Hi, Hi, Chelsea, Hi, how are you.

I'm great.

You just got back from New York.

I was at the US Open.

I had to go to the women's finals.

It was mandatory.

I had to see that final match between Amasamova and Sabalanca.

Okay, So what do you like about being there?

Is it the sports?

Is it the sort of CNB scene.

It seems like a very sort of like celebria event.

Yeah, it is more celebri here in at the US Open than it is at like the other Grand Slams.

I think there's always celebs, but at this one is definitely like a New York thing.

So I've never been in the Australian Open.

I've never been in the French Open.

I go to Wimbledon every year for a few matches whenever I could get there the beginning or the end.

Obviously it's better to get there to the end because it becomes more competitive.

But the US Open just has the most fun vibe really.

First of all, it's like it's so fun because I know a lot of tennis people, so I whoever I get invites me, Like, you could go as a you could buy your own ticket, or you could go as a guest to like one of the brands there or like I went and sat in the president's box for this match since I was invited by somebody there.

And then it's just like a fun vibe.

Hey, they're drinking.

They have Honeyducees, Like every Open has their signature drink.

Like Wimbledon, it's pims Cups, which.

Are so fun.

And Wimbledon is very very convivial and beautiful, but a little stiffer, you know, you've got to be a little bit, a little bit more proper.

I mean I'm not, but that's what they're expecting.

And then US Open is just kind of like more loosey goosey, Like it's just a really relaxed vibe.

It's a fun day out.

I went with two of my friends, Naomi and Serena this time.

I mean I've been I went with Hannah Berner one of the matches.

I went with Juliana marghy Le's to one of the matches.

But then I was I was like, okay, you know what, I have to go back for the finals.

So I flew in for the literally the day to go watch the finals in person.

But it's just the atmosphere, the atmosphere is just bubbling, and I love that vibe.

I'm a day person.

I love that like day atmosphere.

And then yeah, and then you're home at a reasonable hour and yeah, I don't know.

Yeah, you're ever gonna catch me at a sports match of any kind.

It's it's something that has a fun crowd, you know, Like I'm not there, I don't know who's playing, I don't know who's winning.

But like I in high school spent some time in Mexico and we would go to the baseball games there and they would like light rolls of paper towels on fire and like throw them down the stands.

Like it was a very crazy, fun environment.

So like, I'm not there to check out the sports, but like I love it.

You can see see I neglect you just to mention any of the tennis.

But what I do love about the tennis is that it's a level of excellence.

You know, like if you watch the bands, it's the same guys that get past that knock everybody out of the way.

It's the same three guys.

It's Djokovic, it's Yannick Cinner, and it's Alkoraz.

They knock everybody out of their way, so they are playing at such a high level.

So and with the girls, they're less Arena Sabalanka is very consistent, she's always in the finals, but the girls are less consistent.

Like there are great but.

There are just like our pop stars right now are There's such a plethora of them, from Charlie Xca to Chapel Roan to Tailor to I mean, you know, Taylor's been around forever, but like all of these people, Gracie Abrams, you know, that are bubbling up.

It's kind of like analogous to tennis because there's so many young great players that have the potential to be incredible, and they're all gutting there by you know, failure failure, Like you know, they play, they play, they play, then they get knocked out, and then they learn how to get better and they fix their serve or they fix whatever, or they hire a new coach and they become more consistent.

So it's kind of really nice.

I prefer women's sports.

I prefer to watch women's sports, so I just love that level of competitiveness because I don't have that kind of discipline, and it's really cool to watch.

We have a very sweet guest today.

Okay, oh yes, yes, she's a sweetie pie.

She is a pop star.

She's a performer, songwriter and now published author of her brand new memoir Eternally Electric.

Please welcome Debbie Gibson.

Okay, here we are.

We are very special guests.

Miss miss that's what theyways called me.

Miss Debbie Gibson is today in the studio.

Thank you for coming in studio.

So, by the way, I always want to do things in studio and it's always being like forced upon us to do.

What we can do is zoom, but no themselves.

We've done zoom ourselves.

I love like a good old fashioned La press drip.

You know what, you know what a zoom is good for?

Spanish lessons.

That's what zooms are good for.

You know that doesn't need to be face to face.

How are you?

I'm good?

Yes, I was just saying it's weird because when I was on your E show, I feel like I wore a version like the twenty years ago version of the outfit I have on today.

It involved like low slung pants and I feel like.

I wore a Fedora.

We think it was pain.

You always have this hat on, which is the don't always today's just like the roots.

You don't I need a toner, Okay, So I put on them what.

You should have told us, I would have brought one in.

I'm sure I have one at my house, even though I don't have a.

Hat, because you're the same.

Because for for us girls who want to stay blonde but are gray and want to do the dark root and then do the blonde, it just never comes out the same way twice, and it's a whole.

And I hate when my hair gets brassy.

I hate that.

That's what's happening, right, Okay, Okay, had is just copy that.

We're here to celebrate the publication of your very first book, which is called Eternally Electric, which is out now, and it takes you through your childhood, which I didn't know you were one of four girls.

What an advantage that is in life, don't you think?

I mean?

I loved I love it.

And my late mom everyone always said, oh, don't you wish you had boys?

And she was like, no, why would.

You write, well, once you have one sex and you don't wish for the other sex.

She's just love my girls.

But it's also like saying to someone like who has children, like don't you wish you didn't have children?

Like right in your life?

You're not going to be like, yeah, actually I wish I could readnag on that and not have any.

Children, which, by the way, is also a thing with because you don't have children, right right, And I don't have children, right, you have children, and I'm always like, similarly, the fictitious hypothetical children that I don't know, No, I don't miss them, right.

Right, exactly right, like I don't.

Nobody's living.

I mean, well, maybe certain women may be like feeling regretful or rueful that they didn't have the child that they want.

Oh, well that's a big boy, he's yeah, he's you know, the freedom in my life is not wasted on me, and I know I feel like I feel I.

Feel very free in life.

So I'm glad to hear that.

And there you go.

But talk to me about your.

Sisters, because we have a lot of sisters.

I love sisters.

I'm one of three girls in my family, so yeah, we have three boys and three girls, so I have both worlds to choose to have experience from.

But I always find families like that, you know, that are only girls, and especially when there's three or more.

I always am like very attracted to that dynamic.

I love it.

And we're all radically different, yes, but we all connect in some way.

Uh huh so, and what's the like age game?

So my oldest sister, Karen's turning sixty very very soon, which is weird to say because she's just so like cute and little and fun and feisty.

And she just joined a sailing club, which is my favorite thing.

That's funny.

Ar and her husband moved back.

They're like one of the most happily married couples.

I know, my sister Karen and my brother in law Jeff, which you don't hear about often anymore, but they've been married for well over thirty years.

And then Michelle is fifty seven.

I'm turning fifty five, and then or she's so fifty eight, fifty five, fifty one.

We go like two years, three years, four years, so there's like a nine year span.

Yeah, and are you guys do you guys see each other pretty regularly or well?

Now the three of them are New York, New Jersey, so it's great because when I get there, I can see everybody.

Yeah, how do you like living in Vegas.

They're gonna say, how do you like living in your Kia sport?

Yea, well that was ask quest.

I do have an RV.

That's another story.

I love living in Vegas.

I'm always telling people how great it is to live in Vegas.

Really tell me, because I have a trouble going to Vegas.

But you probably never leave.

Do you ever leave the strip?

Well, I had a boyfriend who had a house in Vegas, So then I spent some time in Vegas, which was even more convincing that I shouldn't spend any long period day.

And I can say this because my ex boyfriend and I are friends now.

But see, I did Vegas his way in a house with him, and I was a little like hmmm.

And then when I moved into my own house and started doing it my way.

I can't explain it, but I just now I love it.

Oh I've been there fifteen years.

Oh wow?

Yeah, yeah, I mean, and I live you know, I love living.

First of all, there's anyone who complains about rush hour traffic in Vegas.

I'm like, no, it all moves within ten minutes.

Whenever I land there on a plane.

I'm just like, oh, I can breathe.

It's just it just feels open, expansive.

There's mountains.

The hot weather is the worst thing about it, but it's not that bad.

Every place has something.

But I live not far from Hiking, I live near Target.

I'm twenty minutes from fake Paris.

I like to say, like, you can have all that if you want it, you know, but and you go out in Vegas, I don't a lot, like I just have my handful of friends and there could be dinners or a show.

U huh, like I've seen I'm sure you're friends with carrat Top Scott, I've seen him twice.

I don't know.

I just think all comedians know each other, right, right.

I don't know.

I mean, I'm sure I've met him, but I'm not.

I don't know him at all.

But I love like, I just love that about my life in Vegas.

I could text Donnie Osmond or Carrot Top and go, Okay, come to your show tonight, yeah, and I'll be treated great and right hang out like that's my going on.

That's it.

I did an we'll call it a mini residency, an eighth show run with Joey McIntyre a couple of years ago.

The Venetia Joey wrote the opening forward for your book, did Yeah, which was really sweet.

Thank you.

Yeah, I love him so much, so I'm yesterday.

Oh cute.

Yeah, Yea's a sweetheart.

I love him.

I want to talk about your like panic.

I like what you talk about in the book a lot.

I think a lot of our listeners can relate to that not and maybe in the terms that you experienced it because you were just starting a career at such a young age and like blowing up.

I know my bedroom was lined with posters of Debbi Gils.

I was obsessed, obsessed with you.

Thank you, and to hear you talk about those years in the book, like about how crazy it was and how your mom was a great mamager, you know, pretty much kind of the first momager.

Yeah, especially in music, you know, because like Brookshields had her mom who was a manager agent type person, and but yeah, in music, and to be the momager of a young pop singer, songwriter, it's the whole thing.

It's a very specific thing.

Especially now because the landscape is so different.

Like you know, when you were coming up, it was like you and Tiffany, those are the only two young girls that were out singing, and now there's like this array of you know, from Taylor Swift to Chaplerome to Charlie XX to you know, Gracie Abrams.

Like there's so many young people coming up right.

Now, right, it's just its own lane now.

But there was no lane at the time, right, And people forget there was no lane.

And it had been a good decade since Carol King and even like I think about Linda Ronstadt and her theater crossover that had been a minute, Like I was kind of I was at the forefront of my generation doing it, and so the machine wasn't ready for it, didn't know how to do it.

Well, if you were writing all your own music, which nobody else was, you know, your age was doing that at the.

Time, Yes, and then the men in suits had nothing to do.

Right.

That's by the way, every day I think of a line like, that's a line I wish was in the book.

It's not.

It's just here on your podcast.

But like every day I wake up and I'm like, why didn't I phrase it that way?

It's so great, it's like encapsulates.

I probably could have saved a whole paragraph by writing that sentence.

But that's what it is.

The men in suits were used to repairing this young girl who just stands on a stage and sayings with than older male to write her songs because older men really know what young girls in high school are thinking and want to hear musically, right, it didn't make any sense to us.

And so my mom was literally, my daughter knows how.

I always channel her whenever I like read excerpts from the book or do that, like it's so visceral for me, because I was there, and she really truly was like, she knows what this song should sound like.

And the producing to me was never a mystery.

It's I know in my head what I want to come out of the speakers.

Like when I watch the Wham documentary, I didn't realize I think it was our Reef Martin originally produced Careless Whisper, and George Michael was like, you're making it too complicated.

It's simpler, and then he produced himself because I think ballads almost produce themselves.

So I was like, no, no, this song, I don't need a co producer.

I don't need a producer, And they were kind of like what and I say it in the book, but like the mumm, the suit shoulders going up and down.

I can picture it, but it was kind of nervousness.

It was like what do we what do we do with this?

We don't this is new landscape.

But that ended up being my first number one, you know what the songs that wrote yeah, the two.

It was my first and my second number one, and it put me in the Guinness Book of World Records.

And then I became the youngest and the second youngest wow within a year, which is nuts but also shouldn't be nuts.

Right, Yeah, And your mom really advocated for you and was sort of like a bulldog amongst all these like men in suits, as you say, but it seems like she was very ahead of her time when it came to your panic attacks and that sort of thing of understanding when you needed to take a step back and not just like pushing you.

Can you yes, yes, and talk about when that started, like when did your panics attack start?

And now obviously we know what brought them on, but you talk about it.

Yeah, And you know you had started to say a minute ago, like it's different for a lot of people in your audience, maybe because but I think like anxiety is anxiety.

Anybody who's ever experienced My heart's getting speedy and the walls are closing in and I don't know where my next Brett is coming from, and is this a heart attack or an anxiety attack or like what's happening?

And back then that wasn't on the tip of everyone's tongue.

And if you were a young girl in show business, you were most definitely whining if anything was, you know, stressful.

Right, Yeah, so that was that And by the way, that's what causes further panic attacks.

It's like going, no, I'm good and finding instead of being like, this is weird, like you weren't allowed to say so.

I talk about it in the book when I had this dinner.

Now, you know, we're always schmoozing in show business and we're still doing it, and that's part of what you do.

But it's weird when you're a teenage girl and it's like, oh, you will have a dinner with this First of all, I didn't want to have dinners.

Yeah, and why does anyone want to have dinner with a teenage girl?

Exactly what kind of stimuli are you going to get from that?

Exactly?

It is that like you're the artist and you're the comman and the label is delivering that the and you know, my mom was there, but it was still like she and I didn't go to dinners, like somebody in the family cooked or somebody brought brought McDonald's home, or like we're in the suburbs of Long Island, like we're not doing dinners.

So I was sitting there and I had the inner model, like I can remember the inner dialogue, you know, and I was really uncomfortable and like what am I talking to about this guy about?

And I have a show in two hours and I want to be like napping and warming up, and like this is so weird, and this is we have to do to get a record played, Like this is so weird.

And I just was like, oh my god, I have to get up from the table.

And by the way, I couldn't sit in a restaurant at a table, not only just because of the sense memory of it, but I just couldn't sit still for like three years.

I mean it was really intill.

In the book you talk about like being like with your family and having dinner and having to get up and walk away from the table.

And at that point, like the feelings of oh god, my family's going to think I'm a diva, that this is all because I've become famous and I've you know, I'm hitting it right now.

But your mom totally understood that you actually, like had such anxiety that you could because.

It was disruptive.

And I was never one to want negative attention.

So if anything, like all I wanted was to blend.

I wanted to be one of my sisters at that point.

And by the way, I'm going to circle back around to this, but what you were saying about my sisters and my mom, she empowered all of us, like it just was it was it was she was ahead of her time because it wasn't even like waving the flag for it was just like, well, of course you can't do anything, oh right, you're a girl or whatever, but of course, like, let's just just do what you do.

And it was all you know, who wanted a college path and who wanted to show this path and who wanted a fashion designer path, and everybody had a different path.

So I love love that about her.

We just our visions were kind of far fetched and seemingly unattainable, and they happened, and it.

Just happens that you ever, like at that age, like you know, you need a guardian, you know, still like whoever your mother has to go with you because you can't go by yourself.

Yes, it's not like going to school.

You're like going out into the real world.

Are sleazy men like you have to have a party in with you?

Yes.

And she really became my manager by default though, because she was good at business, and she was the one most present and like literally unfiguratively most present.

And the thing I talk about in the book is I also remember this so vividly.

I had done the Metropolitan Opera's children's chorus for three years and then I started doing like leads and little operas around New York, and there was this opera company that wanted me, and they were like, it's five hundred dollars for the whole run.

Now, she she, for all I know, was making five hundred dollars a week managing this doctor's office, right, Like that was like seemingly a lot of money.

But she was like, that just doesn't feel right because you just finished singing in twelve languages and like you sit sing and like it's just she always knew my worth yeah, and she said to the producer like, that's not you know, and then they tried to hire somebody else.

Well, they did hire somebody else, couldn't cut it.

They called me and it was like, can you learn the whole opera in two days for the same five hundred dollars?

And she was like deal, and that's you know, And so she just started doing that naturally, you know, she was she was cut out for that.

And so yeah, but back to the panic attacks my favorite subject.

I'm naturally an adrenaline girl, and I'm always naturally also like a little fragile and fatigued.

It's a recipe for that.

It's like you're always in fight or fly and you're always like easily triggered.

And that's why performing suits me.

And that's why I could perform at the time no problem, because my energy was heightened and so all that adrenaline felt right.

But sitting and just kind of being connected and dropped in didn't didn't feel right.

I see, Yeah, I think a lot of people probably can relate to that.

Fe Yeah, and I still get social anxiety, Like people see me on my Instagram and I'm outgoing, but I have a hard time leaving my house.

Once I'm in my house, I'm a little like, oh, you know the thing we see on Instagram with the Peanuts, it's two people out there.

It's like two people out there usually for me.

So what is your life like now in Vegas?

Like what's your whole life like now?

You know, it's very work centric, Like the balance is definitely off.

I'm the person who if I don't have a rock and relationship or a social life that's cohesive, like I have a very small amount of friends in Vegas.

Like here there's always people to see in groups of people and things to do.

But I like that about Vegas for me right now too, because the last five years have been rebuilding my health and my career, and honestly, I can't do it with a social life a big social life at the same time.

Right, So that's been the focus.

Talk about rebuilding your career because I know you were in financial trouble, right and you know, like what happened.

You know, I left the major label.

I left Atlantic at twenty one, left millions of dollars in advance money.

And the time it took for like that kind to catch up to me and my mom that we were indie like.

Right at the moment I left, should have been like, we can't have a Manhattan office and I can't be spending this on clothes, and we can't be right, we can't have five employees.

So we kind of kept that party going, probably too long, and we had the big I call it the house that pop Music built.

We had it for too long.

It took too long to sell, and like you know, and then I was moving out and moving into the city and on my own, and so it just everything caught up to us.

Really, that's scary, it is.

And then I did Playboy.

And when I did Playboy, everybody was predicting, Oh, you're gonna make this.

I always let's saying on the back end.

I love saying back end, and Playboy in the same everybody was counting the money before it came in, which often happens in showbiz, and it just all you know that the dollars and cents started to not work out.

But what did they think you were going to make money off of Playboy with?

Well, because you get like back end sales, but they didn't put me on a cover cover across.

I didn't show enough.

And so it wasn't as big of a like a presence I see as I didn't realize you get back and when you pose for Playboy, yes, really that's actually like the bigger you get like a yeah, you get a nice payday, but then no, that's the big right, or at least they tell you.

You're gonna get the back end.

And I had never had a mortgage in my life, and my business managers at the time were like, yeah, So I didn't enjoy that.

I was running to keep up.

And in showbiz, you know, you know, it's like as much or more mostly about what you say no to because the minute you start taking those gigs, it's such a slippery slope.

And so and that was a time of reality.

It was a time of like five grand to go pretend you're shopping for this house and this or this huge apartment that you were And so I started doing those things and that just started to feel really bad.

Oh yeah, and my health was suffering.

I couldn't work as much.

So I got lined listen either gotline disease or I had it for ages, and it came out and took me over.

When my life was in disharmony, and my mom was you know, you either in this business change with the times or you age out.

And she had her old school mentality, and there was that whole one hundred percent and nothing's nothing mom, Like it's a different time, like you have to there was this I felt things changing.

The music industry right, and that changes.

You know.

I always say this to my manager now, Heather, who actually worked for and she's like solely responsible for the rebuild that if my mom was around right now and we're like quick, who's like, what's her at?

And we got the credit wrong on this and we're tagging and did you invite to collab?

And did we?

Oh god wait, I got to delete and start again because the timing, my mom would have been in a constant state of fight or flight, even if she had an assistant doing things for her.

You know, she just was of a different time and she was a you wrote the song, we're protecting now you're I'm giving away somebody created the riff and the intro, and we're giving them a piece of the writing.

And like nobody's reading the credits anyway, and who care, Like, just get the song out.

But she wasn't of that, you know.

I remember a big fight we had.

It's funny now to me, and this was like just such a poignant moment in things are transitioning.

For a while, had like a little red piano, little baby gram that would show up on stages for the you know, and it was like I was doing a club in West Hollywood and it was like, I got you that piano, and then I hear directly from the booking agent because people feel they could come to me, like your mom raked us over the calls about this piano, and I was like, Mom, We're not making a piano at a club in West Hollywood.

It's like better to have a keyboard and it's going direct and we don't need the visual of that anymore.

But she was trying.

You know, it had to be hard for her because she was there for Madison Square.

She got me onto that stage at Madison Square Garden, and she fought for all those things and she didn't want to let those things go.

Mmmm, you know, and that makes me emotional to think about and talk about.

So, you know, and nobody gives anybody grace in this business.

So it was credit, you know, or credit or credit and you know to think that, So then I talk about this in the book too.

She's I see her from agents that your mom wrote a big, long emotional email again, and I'm like, because she can't be neutral about the fact that y'all have me as a name on the on a list when she knows what I do.

She knows what I do, and I've always done more than people know I can do.

Right, So it's like I write and I create.

I'm always like, somebody hang a shingle for me.

I have a lot of incredible ideas, relevant ideas, but you know, there's a way to go about making, you know, facilitating that.

And she she banged her fists on the table because that's what she knew well.

And one thing I gathered from your book was I think this is very interesting, is having a parent who has such a strong personality like that.

You know, you speak very glowingly of your mother, but then also talk about some of the difficult things you went through, like you're talking about right now.

And I think right now especially, there's a big movement of my parents were either perfect and amazing or we're dotte and I'm cutting them off or whatever.

But I think people can be people are complicated, especially parent relationships like they can be both.

One thousand percent, like I even taught listen.

I spoke to Betty Buckley for like three days before I wrote the chapter about her, because nobody wants Betty Buckley to wake up and be surprised about what you wrote about her in her book.

And I love her, but she's a complicated woman.

And she and I talked about like she was like, deb the whole thing is you had this stage mother that was eventually going to turn into mom arose like, and I was trying to fast track you getting there to really but you were you were protecting your mother, so you couldn't let go as an actress in that role when she was playing her mother, right, yeah, I think the gypsy right, yes, because you know, at one point there's a sign that says the mother of miss Gypsy Rosalie is not allowed backstage.

And at one point Heather, who worked for my mom so talk about a complicated little triangle took over and my mom god lover would just kind of raise little hell backstage, right, And Heather was like, now, my job as your manager is to keep you focused and keep that away from you.

But it's your mother, your mother hired me, so like, what do we do with that?

But that was the place Betty was trying to get me to.

So my point is in the book, I speak about both sides of my mom, the side that was a stage mother, in the side that was absolutely not a stage mother in the bad sense of the term.

But I also say in every soccer mom, every mom who's like I want my kid to go to medical school or I want you know whatever, the thing is like, I think every parent is a stage parent in some way, living a little vicariously through maybe some if their kid has a talent that they didn't have, I just wanted or just wanting to give them an opportunity they didn't have.

And how did your relationship with your mom affect her relationship with your other three sisters?

You know, I wrote this scene in a Hallmark movie I did where my sister Denise, who I made the character named Denise, and I talked about like, I'm so sorry I ruined your childhood and she was like, you didn't ruin my child And I never blamed you for anything like I was.

I just was like, Deb's doing what she loves to do.

But I did take my mom's attention away for sure.

You know, it was like it was a deb centric household.

And so my younger sister probably got the worst of it because my older two sisters were off to college and all that, and I think that sometimes they were like, hmm, Deb and her concerts, and then they were like, can we get tickets to write?

You know, everybody also enjoyed it, like, yeah, they all enjoyed the house and the parties and the meeting the people and the perks.

But my younger sister, Denise was essentially like partially raised by a house keeper, So I think she felt like she missed out on my mom a little bit.

That makes sense, Yeah, And how do you feel when you reflect on your like early success and then like struggling later on, you know, the way that your career arc has gone, like when you think about it, which you you know, reflect a lot on in this book, How does how do you feel about it?

Everything?

I mean, like I love where I've landed now.

When I wrote the book, I was like, well, I've been through a lot of stuff, Like I really like at any given point I could have just you know bowed out probably and then like the health challenges was like a free pass to bow out because doctors had me heading in such a different direction where I literally could have been like, well, I just can't work anymore, like if I want it, but I always I'm a survivor, you know, and I'm a thriver.

I was like, I don't even want to just survive.

I want to like have a badass second act.

See.

The thing is, I kept thinking I was in a second act, third act.

I'm now in a true second act.

And all the rest was me trying to.

Well.

I was trying to figure things out, and I was doing a lot of theater because theater was a pure thing for me.

Like you go, you play a role, you deliver, people respect it, you have a great time, you're one of the gang.

It was like a clear cut thing that I could do.

But at the same time, like my spirit's rock and roll, and I need to do my own thing in my own music.

It was on Adam Corolla Show yesterday and we were talking about this.

I said, if only at a crystal ball to no, when no matter how fast you're dancing, no matter how hard you're shaking the trees, it's not your time, Like people are not embracing you.

The era you came from, whatever the thing is.

It's like numerology, right, It's like these years are going to be Jimmy Van Patton is one of my best friends, and his mom Pat reads numbers, and she basically told me right before, like the relationship that was gonna like it was great?

What was great?

And that it wasn't and was.

She basically was like, your life's gonna be it's just going to suck for eight years?

Did she?

Yeah?

And did and what year?

And then I came out of it.

It was like up till four years ago or five years ago, oh wow, Like the mixtape tour kind of was one of the churning points.

Dancing with the Stars was me like, right, I'm going to fire up the engines, which I did a little too soon, Like I wish I was doing Dancing with the Stars now because I could have done a lot better, but that wasn't the point of it for me.

Then it was like I'm going to tell my body that I'm not old and debilitated and sick, right, I'm just going to do that.

And I made it to like it was like I was.

I left right after Barbara Corcoran, like third or something.

I love her by the way, she was amazing.

You know what I what I love about it is I did a lot of things I didn't overthink.

Like even when the sci fi movie moment came up, I was like, I don't have a movie career to kill, so what can I What do I have to lose by battling a giant shark and driving a submittage.

Because I'm like, I love I love a cheesy shark movie.

I love the meg.

I love weirdly at the forefront of it's show warby praise, I remember like I was a guinea pig or pioneer, depending on how you look at it.

Right, And my agent at the time, David Shapira Shapiro with an A, was like, I got this little movie, and it's like they're paying They're not paying a lot, but you know, if you want to do it, nobody's going it's like a cult thing.

It'll be fun.

And then the day the trailer came out was like a half a million hits on the trailer because a shark was eating the Golden Gate Bridge and I was driving a submarine.

I mean, it was just it was awesome.

But my point is I've done a lot of things that make me giggle if not taken myself that seriously.

I take what I'm supposed to take seriously seriously, and I don't take the rest seriously.

Well that's a gift right there.

I feel like it is.

And so when I look, when I look at my life, I go, you know, I name a chapter my way, and all the boys have a rendition in my way.

But I have done things my way for better or worse.

And what about your love life?

How do you feel about that?

That's like the okay, so you might relate to what I'm about to say.

The people you want or in my book, the person I've wanted to step up has intercanters off in another journey, We'll say.

And then the guys that do things the right way, You're like, no, they're just not it.

Or people are so like what I have in my life is either someone DMS me and they've got like a little bit of stature or whatever, and they have a future planned.

They're like, hope you like to travel and like to do and I'm like, I don't know you.

I mean maybe, but I'm such an organic love person, like I have to it just has to unfold.

And I'm at the point where, like I said at the beginning of this conversation, if it's not naturally unfolding, I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing and that'll appear if and when it's supposed to.

And with regard to the person that hasn't stepped up in your life, because a lot of our listeners are trying to navigate in or out of relationships, or well mostly out of our relationships, or they're looking for a relationship.

But like, talk to me about how you what you decided, how you decided to move away from that when you were getting what you wanted.

Right, Well, that's a great question.

And have I fully moved away emotionally?

It's the real question, because what happened was this person that like reappeared in my life and I was like, oh my god, I was a thousand percent sure.

I was like, this is my person.

I never even thought I would have a person.

And you know, I'm like, I'm that sole connection person and I am I guess you could say the cliche and it is I see this person's potential or this, but it has not happened.

I had kind of sort of it was a thing that wasn't a thing, that was a thing that wasn't a thing.

And I'm very much in touch with this person all the time, and I have friends that say, hey, if you really want to emotionally disconnect, you have to get away from greatly not communicate.

But I'm not that person.

So there was no singular event.

It's just it's not a really like it's something you desire that wasn't happening.

Yes, and it's still it still affects me.

So this person still affects me.

But I'm getting better with that because I've decided I want this person in my life.

I want to be friends.

I want to embrace the situation he's in.

But I'm trying to learn how to not be as affected and to really accept that, Okay, whatever I think could or may or may have or may have in the past or may in the future, what's happening right now is it's not happening.

So I'm still working with it.

I'm still in the process of it.

And I shared it in the book and people close to me were like, you sure you want to share this because because I was well aware that it was the scene in never been kissed and I was Drue Barrymore and I was standing in the middle of that field, and it could be like, and he's here with me in the waiting room and we're together.

Right.

It could have been that from when I was writing it, right, or could be this, which is it's not happening.

And I wanted to be vulnerable about that in the book because first of all, nobody is all work, work work.

We all have those situations and those feelings, and I wanted to to be okay with Okay, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't go the way I want that, That's what I'll be talking about.

And like you said, so many people are are feeling that and going through that, and it's honestly, it's just it's not fun.

It's it's inspired endless songs, which has been great, but it's emotional to even think, oh, I'll record these songs for my next album and then I'll be living that.

And but that's what we're here for, and that's what artists are here for.

You know, that's right, But it's but it's tough.

Yeah, it's tough, and that.

I will take a break and we'll be right back with Debbie Gibson, not to be confused with Deborah Gibson or what was the other pitch for you to go by Debbie Debbie g We're just Deborah.

Funny that you said, like, oh, that sounds like a one hit wonder, because it absolutely but I wouldn't have thought about qig.

Yes.

This week, we're looking for questions from folks who are or used to be in the military.

Your question doesn't have to necessarily be about your work in the military, but bonus points if it is.

Please write in to Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail dot com.

And we're back with Debbig.

Okay, what do we got today?

We were talking, we were talking about my love life, and I feel like I've heard you say things too about like you want like rendezvous in every report.

Right some of the you, Yeah, that's what I like.

And it doesn't turn into wanting one person to be the person.

If it does, then it does.

But I don't have the pressure of something has happened to me in my life where I just don't have the same like desire, Like I don't have the desire for a partner, right, I have a desire for adventure.

I need same same and when I think about it in terms of that, I always think about like when I meet someone and I like them a lot, I'll spend more time with them, or I'll commit to a relationship.

It's not like I can't marry it, right, I just don't.

When I think about my life, I feel like, to me, that feels a narrow and all the options available feel like more of a wide open operation for me, right, And I want to move towards a wide open operation, not narrow I gotcha.

I mean listen, like the reality for me.

On one hand, I love the idea of partnering up again if it's going to enhance my life.

But on the other hand, this is what this is what I always say when I'm in my kitchen and I'm like throwing chicken across the living room to my docs, and I'm like, who's partnering up in this scenario?

And I'm not giving this up right, right, So there is a little bit of that too.

I wake up in the middle of the night, I turn on whatever I want exactly all that.

Yeah, I eat food and bed disgusting things.

I have disgusting habits.

I go, oh my god, I think I want to go live in London next year for three months, and you know, and so like I'm I'm beholding to nobody, which is also awesome, but I am still a romantic so but I still don't understand how it works because I've never fully successfully made it work for any real length of time without like getting sick or like all these things that because I'm juggling too many things.

Because I also only and know how to do everything one way.

So if I did it, I think it would have to be like Seasonal, where I go, all right, let's like really spend a lot of time together these three months, and then I'm going on tour and then maybe you can come out and meet.

Like, I don't really know technically how it works, so I have a little bit of that rendezvous mindset.

I love.

I like it, I like it.

Well.

Our first question comes from Tracy.

Tracy says, dear Chelsea, I've been a queen most of my life, but after some career and therefore wealth downturns following a divorce and my menopausal looks not good, I'm feeling like a loser.

I know I'm not, but feel so down and I'm feeling jealous of my ex husband's new girlfriend.

I hate that about me, but I haven't been able to stop myself.

I'm especially worried that my kids might start to like her more than me.

I have to stop that immediately.

Probably need therapy about twupoor right now.

Please give me some advice.

Tracy who needs her group back?

Oh my gosh, I need it.

I know we gotta have her.

Tracy, Honey, stop that.

You can't talk to yourself like that.

First of all, you have to think of your children.

You're like they're guiding light.

You can't start thinking that they're gonna like your husband's ex husband's wife or girlfriend more than you like.

You have to start writing things down that you like about yourself.

You have to start getting up every single morning and having gratitude about the fact that you're no longer married.

That's a huge victory.

We have children that are healthy and happy.

That's a victory.

You are capable.

So you lost your job, You're going through menopause.

That's not the end of the world.

It's a reset.

It's an opportunity for a reset.

Every divorce, every like menopause, every may your life change is an opportunity for a reset.

That's how I think of it, Like, you know, even menopause, while it's so annoying and gross and so many bad things can happen from it, Like that's another reason to get stronger, to get fearcer, to work out, to be more healthy, to be more conscient, you know, conscientious about your health, about your food intake, about your alcohol intake, like all of the things.

But like this pity party that you're having, you can't be a victim.

You can't sit around and just feel like shit about yourself.

You didn't do anything wrong, and it's up to you to get yourself out of this.

So you've got it until you can afford.

First of all, you can do better help.

That's one of the sponsors of the show that's really inexpensive therapy.

But I would really start by starting to write every morning, like ten things that you're grateful for, and that you mix it in with the things that you like about yourself as a mother, the things that you like about yourself as a woman, the things that you're proud of.

Just write those things.

Down to remind yourself of your own innate value, because we sometimes get lost in your eyes and we forget about are innate value.

So I'm here to remind you that you have a lot of it and you are having amnesia.

One thousand percent.

I wrote a song called one Step Closer with DJ Tracy Young on my latest album.

It's not new, but to you it's probably new.

But there's a line in it about love, trust and being enough, and it's one step closer to love.

And sometimes when you step away from romantic love, you're one step closer your self love.

And also I do think, like I'll echo just sometimes physical like I started boxing recently and going to that boxing gym and being one of the only females there, like, I'm not amazing at it, but I found it was a way of physically getting unstuck cause I get in that emotional ball too, Like it just sounds like you're stuck a little bit.

And sometimes I think firing up the physical engines.

Yeah, absolutely is.

It's a way to start.

And you're around people who are like good for you, Like go where your fan club is, like find you find your people that are gonna be like you said, praising you, getting it, reminding you, remind yourself who you are, but get around the people who remind you who you are.

To Yeah, and just to echo the therapy thing.

There are tons of support groups online weno and like meet other women who are in the exact same position.

So go take a look for some of those.

Yeah, I know the women that a lot of women are in this I don't care club.

I say, be in the care club about your self club and keep moving forward.

Right right, Well, I mean it's good to not care about what others think, but it's good to it's good to take the energy you have towards what others think about you and invest that into yourself.

And some say it's like surrender and relax a bit, but not to a point where get.

That over the I mean, you can do well.

Our next question comes from Amy, and she is joined by her friend Christina for moral support, and also she's referenced in the email, so her subject line is Judgmental parents and seven Siblings.

Amy says, Dear Chelsea, I'm writing because I could really use some guidance on how to deal with religious parents who are very intense and judgmental, especially when it creates tension between siblings for contacts.

I have seven siblings, all of us adults now, most living in different states.

We all love each other, have stayed close and talk on the phone in the group chat regularly.

Although there have been countless examples of my parents demonstrating the opposite of the Christian slash Catholic values they claim to so strongly follow.

The most recent offense was a couple weeks ago my parents refuse to help my best friend in a tough position only because she's been divorced.

I am too, though, lol, although I passionately disagree that is their right, but then they continued giving their opinion.

I didn't ask for on her co parenting arrangement, which is amazing after a lot of hard work.

They claimed it when against their beliefs and directly insulted her parenting choices.

It felt cold and unfair, and it started up a lot of feelings for me, mainly anger.

I'm no longer religious, but some of my siblings still are, though not nearly as extreme as our parents.

All have different relationships with them and with faith, and I feel stuck in the middle.

I don't want to cause drama or make anyone feel attacked, but I also don't want to keep swallowing my frustration and biting my tongue when something feels wrong.

It was a lot easier when my parents moved out of state in twenty twenty following a cult leader.

That's another story in itself.

I was like it Jesus.

I would keep the phone calls to a minimum and kept the topics light.

Just a couple months ago, they moved back after a falling out with said cult leader.

So now I can no longer hide behind a quarterly phone call.

How do you speak up and set boundaries without alienating your family or upsetting your siblings who are trying to keep the peace?

Amy and Christina, Hi, girls, Hi, This is our special guest, Debbie Gibsons here today.

How are you you good?

Thank you?

I can't believe your parents broke up with their cult leader.

That hardly ever happens.

I know, I know it was kind of crazy.

We kind of anticipated it, but we're still shocked that it actually happened.

Well, I was joking.

I mean there's a lot of breakups that happened with cult leader, but I mean that, Yes, your parents sound like they're very far gone.

And I would not even be able to exist in this world, in this ecosystem, because I would would not be able to tolerate that.

So kudos to you for even being able to have any sort of control over your emotions or outbursts or defense of your brothers and sisters, which I think is completely reasonable.

I don't.

I'm not a peacekeeper.

I think it's important to express yourself, you know what I mean.

And I think it's really important to stand up for people when they are Like the situation you described about them insulting your sister's parenting friends.

It's actually her best friend, your friend's parent.

Yeah, okay, so that's the friend.

Okay, great, Yeah, like, yeah, she's here with me, and so what happened?

So it ended up where it just was let go and nothing Ever, really, I never said anything.

What did they say?

What did they say to her?

You?

She said, my mom said it made them feel really uncomfortable to have my best friend and her ex husband and their son just stay at their head.

They had a baseball tournament and they were just going to sleep over for a night.

It would have worked out really well.

They were my parents lived right there, and they said no, that she couldn't stay with them on the basis that she was divorced and it would be confusing for her child.

Oh yeah, that's really stupid.

But her, I mean, they're both amazing parents.

They travel to you know, his travel games together and that's the only reason they were you know together, and their son is perfectly happy and fine.

Of course, of course he is.

But you're dealing with unreasonable people.

I mean, your parents just got out of a cult, so you're not going to be able to reason with them, you know what I mean.

But like, and it's not your.

Job to keep the peace, like if you don't want to deal with that, or if you don't want to be around them, Like where are you at?

Do you want to be with your family or do you want what are your goals here?

You want to stand up for yourself or and your friends, but you don't want to cause drama within the family.

Yes, I would say that.

I'm I don't typically have a problem standing up for myself or especially when it comes to my friends.

I have a way better time standing up for other people than I do myself.

But the problem comes when it's actually when my siblings want to get together with my parents or like just after that happened, my sisters wanted to go visit my mom for Mother's Day and I was so upset that I didn't want to go, and it caused some problems there, because.

Well, you can have boundaries without making it traumatic.

You don't have to explain to everybody your reasons behind everything.

If you don't want to go because you're upset with your parents, You're like, you could just as easily say I have plans.

Actually I have a lot of work to do.

I'm behind on this.

I already made plans.

I didn't know it was Mother's Day, and I committed to going to this.

Like, you don't have to bring people into your reasoning if that's what's going to create the drama.

You just don't have to make yourself available to your family for any reason.

You just don't have to.

You don't have that responsibility.

You have enough siblings that they could fucking pick up the slack anyway, you know what I mean.

Yeah, they do with having children because they all have a thousand.

I have zeros.

Though it doesn't have to be some huge right.

My family thinks I'm so dramatic.

I'm like, I'm not even telling you guys anything.

I'm just withdrawing.

I'm withdrawing.

I don't have the stamina or with the bandwidth to deal with this.

I don't have a desire to deal with this, and so I just removed myself from the situation, you know, and if they ask, I explain.

But I'm not creating drama.

They can think I'm creating drama, but actually me showing up would be creating more drama.

So I am all for you, like having boundaries and.

Not explaining yourself.

You're an adult woman, and like you know that them saying that about your friend, Yes, that's upsetting, but like also you kind of know what you're dealing with with them, So don't ask them for favors like that.

Right, I wouldn't want to.

I wouldn't want to combine your beautiful friend's family with that energy anyway.

So just like probably for the best, Yeah, I really have that, Like I have that policy in my household where you're just not you have religious beliefs and it's against the lgbtqia.

Plus what you're not speaking that language in my house, Like it's not happening in my house.

I'm not disowning all those people because there are people even in my family, they were raised a certain way and it's religion and it's whatever the triggers are from whatever they went through in childhood or whatever.

But I agree with Chelsea, like it does.

You don't need to keep it all in your airspace, you know.

Just I think life's too short to go into situations where you're you're uncomfortable, you know, or you're not aligned.

I think that's what I struggled with them almost because it was always, you know, growing up, everyone believes the same things right right, right off, and then when somebody does something different.

Right, and that is hard.

You want to be one of the gang, but you don't want to be one of the gang at the expense of feeling like you're betraying your friend, or if it is a day where you're like I can deal with whatever their beliefs are, doesn't really matter.

Or betraying yourself like I you know, it's like you have certain principles we all do.

Like if you're a principal person and you're like, this is I don't want to be around this.

I'm sorry, I don't agree with this.

I don't like it.

It makes me feel feel bad.

I actually feel bad after being around it.

Then then you're taking care of yourself.

Yes, I think you hit the nail on the head there is like it's okay that I don't have No one really has to know why I do things or like, that's just the fact that it helps me and it doesn't make me feel good or comfortable.

Is enough is enough?

And no is enough?

Right?

And your friend what's your name?

The Fristina?

Christina?

Hi, And I hope you don't feel Christina, take any but exactly I was gonna say, I hope you don't feel bad or take anything personally, because it does sound like a whole rationale that's not in keeping with Yeah.

No, I'm I was raised Catholic and but no, like cult type situations, like.

Most people don't encounter that.

Kind of a unique how.

Up such she was And I'm like, honey, I'm like, it's okay.

She's like I didn't even want to tell you because like I felt so bad that they said these things and made these judgments about you.

And I was like, listen, you couldn't have hit for me anyways if you wanted to, because we've been best friends for how long, Like I would know something was up.

And I don't take that personally because if people don't like me, people don't like me like.

Good, good for you, Good for you.

The way I way I choose to parent.

It works for me, it works for my child.

And if no one else liked that, well I'm sorry, Yeah, it works for good don't.

Look for you?

All right, Well I think we solve that problem.

Yes, thank you so much.

Have a good day, girls, so much.

Bye bye.

I am so sick of religion.

I cannot enough.

I am so fucking sick of it.

Okay, should we take a little break, and well, we have one more question to wrap up with.

Okay, we'll be right back with Debbie Gibson and we're back.

Sorry, it's freezing here and I'm always like.

We're rolling so hard today that we all forgot my hoodie in the car.

Oh, while you look cozy, this is nice.

Well, our last caller today is Katie and her subject line is help for a grieving daughter.

Dear Chelsea.

I know, sad subject line, but I know you'll have some good advice for me.

I'm a thirty six year old woman and I recently lost my dad to a battle with breast cancer.

It's been a long two years for me because for the last year and a half I was his full time caretaker.

I had to quit working and move home with my parents to take care of him while also trying to live life, which was nearly impossible to do.

I have zero regrets about doing this, and I'm grateful I was able to spend so much time with him and my family before he passed.

But now I'm in the dreaded grieving phase where I have to figure out how to keep moving forward while also finding myself again.

Do you have any.

Advice to share on how you've worked through the grief of losing a parent and tips on finding yourself again after going through tough shit.

Thanks Katie.

Hi Katie, Say hi to Debbie Gibson.

She's our special guest today.

Hi Katie, nice to you.

Nice to meet you.

I'm so sorry about your the loss of your father and what a wonderful act of love you gave him by being by his side for those last two years and everything that you did for him.

I mean, that's beautiful and you should be really proud of yourself for, like you know, going the distance with him.

What I would say is like, first of all, grieving is completely natural.

I can't compare it to my grieving my father because I was so ready for him to die, So that's a two says separate situation.

But my mother, I wasn't ready for her to die, So I can relate on that front.

And I know you're you weren't ready for your mother to die.

But I think you have to accept that there is a state of grief and then that's okay, Like you're okay.

You can't fast forward your grief.

That doesn't work.

It has to work through you.

And you also have to say, like you have to wake up every day and remember think about what your father would want for you, because he doesn't want you to suffer, and you have to think, like, take him with you.

His spirit is with you always.

He's been such a big part of your life that even though he's not physically here, he is spiritually a part of you.

He will always be a part of you.

And the part of like building back your life and getting through this time is by remembering what remembering that and remembering what he would want, and living with him in spirit, not living for him, but living with him in mind.

You know, like, what would my dad want from me?

Your dad wants you to be happy.

Your dad wants you to be successful, Your dad wants you to be selfish about certain things, you know, to make the best life for yourself.

So I wouldn't judge yourself so much for the grief.

I would just really try to move forward with like the knowledge that this is normal, your normal, everything's fine, everything that.

You're feeling is fine, and that you want.

To think about a way to live your life out loud, in a loud, brave way that will honor your father.

Yeah, you sound just like my therapist.

Great, great advice.

Yeah.

I think it's more of like accepting that as normal and being okay with emotions because, like you know, emotions are rough.

It's very isolating right now when you don't know other people that kind of go through the same thing.

And it was so long and such it's good Ashkenazi jew genes is what got in though.

You know, if you're struggling with your vulnerability and being emotional, like first of all, or your emotions, you you should go online and find a group of people who have just lost their parents, go to a support group so that you can sit there with people who are dealing with it and like fucking let it rip, let it out and cry, and you know, like I can see you're about to cry right now, Just cry, let it go.

It's okay, you want this out, Like, if you keep everything bottled up, it's just going to come and get you anyway.

Yeah.

And so is that the part that you struggled with the most, like letting your emotions out?

Oh for sure?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I felt super super related to your story when you said you were like crying over trying to open a fucking orange during your like therapy session, and I felt I was like, if I don't go to a therapist in six months, I'm going to be like exploding over trying to open an orange.

You know what I mean?

Right, So it felt super related to that story.

Yeah, and you're in therapy.

I am, but Friday is my last session because she's actually moving away, so I'll have to find a new therapist.

But I did go to therapy, yeah, which is.

Helpful because of your dad's dath.

Yeah yeah, yeah, because I was like, I'm not I'm going to completely avoid it.

I'm very avoidant.

I'm like just kind of like stay busy, stay busy, and just kind of you'll go through it and get over it.

And then I think she's helped a little bit kind of like be cool with having emotions because I think that's the part of like grief there, like, okay, that is normal.

Yeah.

And also this in vulnerability that we create when we're not allowing ourselves to be emotional, we'll end up blocking other relationships in your life, intimate relationships, and you know, like you want to be vulnerable so that you're accessible.

Like I had a therapist once tell me this was about like the girls in my life, these young girls that say, like, as long as you can cry, you're accessible, like then we can get to you.

Yeah, and you're recoverable.

As long as you're vulnerable enough to be emotional, then we can make in roads in progress.

Yes, yeah, so.

Yeah, remember that and then focus on getting a new therapist and talk and be really obviously you're going to be fourth right, you're being forthright to me and right now to all of us.

But focus on.

Really working through your emotions and letting it out, you know, just really have that be your goal in your father's honor.

No, that's that's great advice.

Could you'd be surprised Once you do let it out, then it's out, and it's usually doesn't last for like you know, no, you're like holding on so tightly, so tightly, so tightly, and for what like once you cry in five minutes, you're like, Okay, that felt good.

I feel better all the time these days.

And like a period of years where it didn't cry, couldn't cry, right, and now I mean I think I cry every day.

But yeah, it's so good.

But it also feels like because you you did commit to his health in his final what two years it was years?

And how long has it been now since he's gone eight months?

Okay, so like it's super new.

And I would think because that was your focus for two years too, that even becomes smarter kind of chance transitioning out of being that caretaker and trying to kind of find your own rhythm in your life again.

So that's got to be really hard.

So give yourself a grace for how hard that is.

And honor the moments where you are feeling emotional, Like when you have a moment and you're feeling it, go to your car, go to your room, go wherever you can have some privacy and let it out and honor that.

Don't try to push it away, don't try to keep busy, Like even if you're out with a group of friends, say, and all of a sudden, you're overwhelmed with emotion.

If you don't feel comfortable just being honest with them.

Go outside, let it out, and then come back in and be like, oh I got a sad email or whatever if you don't want to share it with other people.

But don't fight that those feelings because it doesn't get you anywhere.

I agree, I totally agree.

Okay, but make sure you get that therapist.

Okay, make sure you get a new one.

I know I need a new one.

Friday is my last sash, so I'm hoping to get another.

I have a good one.

We can get you his number.

Wood old fella.

I like to call him like he's old, but he's like so channeler, He's amazing.

Love me, do it, love it.

Right than I really appreciate it.

Okay, take care, bye bye bye.

I was trying to sing right after, like because I had chose and I had all these anniversary shows and it was so tied to my mother and singing and grieving.

It's not a good compo.

Is it not.

It's like you're crying and everything's like, oh yes, your stuff right there, and you're like, and let me sing this song that my mom helped promote and she's gone, and yeah it was intense.

Yeah, very intense, I would imagine.

Yeah.

Her book is called Eternally Electric.

Her name is Debbie Gibson, so buy yourself a copy.

Thank you, Debbie Gibson.

So nice to see you again.

This is so much fun.

Yeah, so much fun.

I put up new Vegas dates by the way for next year.

This year, I will be there November first and November twenty ninth.

Those are my last two dates this year.

Then I start up again January thirty first, March seventh, April eighteenth, and May thirtieth, and tickets are now on sale for all.

Of those dates.

Do you want advice from Chelsea, write into Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail dot com.

Find full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching at Dear Chelsea pod.

Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Katherine law And be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot com