Little Gramm McMillan, I have an important question for you.

Oh well, with the introduction of Little gram McMillan, I'm already into it.

Sure ask me go it's the most wonderful time.

We haven't decided if I'm Greg Davis or if I'm Jeremy Wells because I've started watching Task Paster, New Zealand.

Why do you have such a strong affinity for Christmas movies if people don't know the lore at Graham and pop Versland is our king of all things Christmas.

I love Christmas.

Christmas is I just said it was the most wonderful time of the year as a joke because of the song.

But it's the most wonderful time of the year.

I have a theory about this which is not born out by reality, but I choose to believe the enemy.

It's the one time of year where people want to be better versions of themselves, even if they do nothing about it, And even just that desire to want to be better is meaningful to me.

I like the color, I like the sentiment.

I like the weather.

I say that I'm in Portland and we've had really so I'm not sure I do like the weather.

I like the cold.

If you give me like a cold on sunny day, what.

Do you think is an ideal saperture like eighteen celsius or colder than that?

Oh, I've been in America so long.

Nd oh crazy, I refuse faradheit.

If it's below seventy five I or above thirty, I have no idea what's happening.

It's yeah, I'm you know, give me something in the I don't know, give me something in like the lowest ye or high fortiesh fahrenheit and and I'm good.

And but sun, if you can give me sun with that as well, wonderful.

No.

I love the same year.

I think the holidays are lovely.

I love watching the Christmas lights.

I love, yeah, the whole thing.

Well, that's the most beautiful thing I think you've ever said about Christmas.

Because this is definitely the first time we're recording this, and you definitely didn't give it to separate answer last time, since it is the most.

It's definitely the first time regarding this, there's definitely not been technical difficulties at all.

I did give a different answer.

Ah See, I'm giving a fresh.

People who have been listening for our eleven year.

Saga might remember that when we did our two part which I think was our first two part episode on Spider Man, we did lose the first recording and that was when Jason and Ashley were recording in the closet.

So it was a lot less of a heavy lift to have to do volume two.

So please go find Graham on social media.

He's incredibly difficult to find, and thank him for coming back.

And as he said, it's the most wonderful time of the year.

It's the most wonderful time of the week.

And I'm going to say hello and welcome to Geek History Lesson, the podcast where one Canadian comic book writer and a television writer from Kansas teach you everything you need to know about a subject in about an hour.

But unfortunately our TV writer is very busy writing in pretty sick television and hanging out with the detectives in You Hop.

And so this week we are joined by a journalist, my work wife and Scottish icon Graham McMillan.

Graham formally welcome times to to gee guest your lesson.

I love, I will accept workife, Scottish Icon.

I want to reject that there's nothing iconic about me, but it's a joy to be here again.

Well, work husband, I think, because it's not alliterative, is nowhere near as fun as saying work wife and gender as a construct.

And so you are my work wife and you will be forever even when we are no longer working together, which.

Oh no, no, this is this is probably I fully appreciate that.

But you are a Scottish icon to me.

And fun facts because this video is now public to Martin Quinn, who plays Scotti on Star Trek Strange New World, go and check out that interview for Pop First from New York Comic Con, where I explicitly reference Graham and his scottishness and Martin Quinn accepts everything that you say as absolute scientific fact.

So look, if scott is except scientific fact.

I find it very pleasing that they original Scottie was also Canadian, so it's it's just just deeper into our our particular canon.

But before we drilled down into the topic of today's episode, I want to get a litmus test for your taste in case anybody is meeting you here for the same time for the first time.

Rather if they are, what have you been doing with your life?

So, uh, Graham, we're gonna be talking about non traditional holiday movies, kind of under the thesis that Diehard is a Christmas movie, but what are some explicitly Christmas movies that you like so that we can get a sense of your taste.

I will admit that as we were recording this, it is the first week of December, just to ruin forever.

Okay, the last time we did it not December, so now it's slightly going to that.

I have already watched Holidays.

Oh wow, the the the All Your Run Classic, because it's the whole plot of that is it's you know, he does it through the entire year, but it's a film that quite Christmas game from film and that song quite Christmas were written for also astonishingly racist midway through.

And I warn everyone in advance.

I would recommend holiday and all day long, but I would also always give a warning of when they say they're going to celebrate Abraham Lincoln's birthday, just fast forward.

Just don't.

You don't want to, you don't.

It's it's horrible.

It's like when you watch I've already watched Janny for the first time and you're like, this is fabulous, this is amazing, James Cagney, Holy smokes.

And then the blackface number comes and you're like, oh no, I can't enjoy this anymore.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

It's when they're like, because the thing in holiday, and so they do the blackface number for Abraham Lincoln and then they're like, I think the black face number went over really well, let's do it for every holidays, and there's no way to watch.

I'd just be like, no, no, no, don't no, it's it's wrong.

I've watched a Miracle thirty four rich version.

I've watched the original, the only one that cans come on.

I have watched one of the films that I'm going to be talking about, so I'm not good to name it.

Uh.

And perhaps most importantly, I've watched Hong Kong Christmas, in which Filimina Kunk steps into Christmas and, as she says, steps back out again, and it is Yeah, that's that's when you know the holiday season started, when Filamina Kunk is going to investigate Christmas everything.

You are the reason that I know who Filamina Kunk is, and I would have been disappointed if she hadn't made it onto your list.

Frankly, I am glad that she does not let you down, and she didn't let me down.

Anyone who wants see that.

It's on YouTube and it's never properly been released.

That's wild because a lot of her stuff made its way onto Netflix.

We're not talking about Netflix right now because we don't know if we like them anymore.

I would also like Graham for you to wade into the debate of is Die Hard a Christmas movie?

Again?

Going back to Film in a Kunk.

The end of that special, she Lisa has the reasons why it is a Christmas movie, which are entirely fictional.

Arguably, Oh, its like just not true, you know.

She's like, it's God your died drunk in the chair, having drunk too much sherry at a couse of something entirely different.

It is a Christmas movie.

It's it's it's a Christmas movie for all the right slash wrong reasons, which is to say, because so many people think it's Christmas movie, isn't officially Christmas movie.

It is a movie that I saw last year for the first time, and I fell asleep during it, and so I remember very little of it.

And that's what I've taken away from die Hard.

But Alan Rickman being evil being cartooned, yes.

But also you can just watch Robin Hood where Kevin Costner does the best English accent you've ever heard, and somebody's he says like, scoop that guy's eyes out with a spoon, you know, like Alan Rickman says, and one of his little medians is like, why a spoon, saya, And he's like, because it's dull, you twit, little hush ball.

It's such a good He's so cartoonishly evil in Robinhood.

It's so good.

That movie is long and dull.

I know that this was not your intent, but when you test at Alan Rickman at the end, mister no specifically the nineteen sixties.

Beetles, car, I will take that as such a compliment.

Thank you.

Nothing, but which beetle?

Where in none of them sound like the Beatles?

Whatsoever?

I think you send it like John the Nasally one.

Yeah, my favorite Beatle is Ringo, But I'll take a John.

That's fine, That's totally fine.

Also, worried about those movies coming out next your but you know that's a different podcast.

In the meantime, Graham and I are going to list our top five non traditional holiday movies.

So in the line of diehard and hoping to spark much debate with you and give you stuff that is fun to watch with your families or not with your families, with your chosen families as the holiday season comes to be.

So Graham, I should have asked this before we started recording.

Are you comfy going first?

I am comfy going first.

I'm going to also repeat the trick.

So listeners, what you already know is this their second time doing this.

What I've already told actually is I don't remember the films I picked last time, and so I know I've got three of them the same.

But I have my films.

I do know that, so we have one crossover last time, so I will be very interested if this persistent being a crossover this time.

But I will also add that one of my non traditional Christmas movies explicitly his the word Christmas and title, but it's not a Christmas film, so I just want to throw that out there, and it's not Happy Christmas.

The Anick Hendrick, very sad drama about oh.

No, oh no.

But you know that.

If you want, I'm rather looking to destroy everyone told.

Me yeah, well, I will definitely be with my some of my picks, some of min are sad.

So what's your first go ahead?

But you and I are different, Like I love the holidays, you are show.

Yes I didn't.

I didn't say that in my intro.

I'm a scrooge who, as an adult, is attempting to like reclaim and refall in love with Christmas.

But I worked retail for too long and it destroyed any and all joy that the season brings me.

So yeah, so yes, that's why Graham and I are good.

Are good oppositions for this, Graham kick it off.

What's your first choice for best non traditional holiday movie.

I'm going to go from least favorite of my favorites and favorite, and then I'll jump to the one that is Christmas Brazil Ell.

Yeah, what a great choice that uh I would never have considered.

It's a Christmas film.

It's so for people who haven't seen Brazil, it is a I mean people say Kafka esque sure nightmare.

It's It's the most nineteen eighties future film you can imagine.

There was this very particular era in the eighties where they were like, the future is going to.

Be like then being like the laziest example, the most common example of that probably.

Well, I feel if you start with Blade Runner and then you go to is it the Apple commercial with everyone's sort of faceless and and facing a room and then someone runs in, that is Apple?

Right?

If you marriage those two togethers and then I don't know, like take far to many edibles, you kind of end up with Brazil.

Terry Gilliams.

It is.

It's the most Terry gilliam film of all.

It's it's extraordinary.

It's it's not Tomp.

We recorded.

That's true.

He's literally died between the first and I'm sorry for killing Tom Suppard, but in my defense, he was very is.

It's all about a bureaucrat who gets drawn into kind of uprising and rebellion because a fly ruins a printer of someone who is meant to be arrested and killed.

And so Archibald's buttle is is a butler tuttle they get.

Those are the two names.

And I can't remember which one is the one who gets actually captured, and I'll find it for you.

The one that just not it's the actual terrorist who is supposed to be arrested, is played by Robert de Niro, because why not, because no one else in this film is of the Robert de Niro era at all, Like you know, Michael palin Is and there Jundan Prices and there they're they're fine British actors.

And then Robert Huore just show much in the much in the tradition of his appearance in Kenneth Brunns Frangitzstein nineteen eighty four, where it's a bunch of people with very character specific faces who have a long tradition in English theater.

And then that Jersey guy playing the creature, but.

He just he could tell you wants to be amongst them totally.

I mean, like Roberto somewhere is like but I'm just like you, and they're like, no.

We did Rada and then we did BBC dramas for like twelve years and they all were horribly underfunded and we had one light and we just hope someone who's went to watch and he's like, I've been doing Martin Scarses films for twenty years anyway.

H britill It's it's wonderful.

It is a film that is not about Christmas in the slightest, despite taking place at Christmas.

But his real name is Tuttle, but is really it is a misprinted as Buttle, so everyone says Buttle, but Tuttle is his real name.

It's a film about everything.

It's a bit of everything except Christmas.

Even though it is kind of a Christmas it does.

Weirdly follow the It's a Wonderful Life type character exploration, just in a much more dystopian way, like it is about finding your place in the world, and like who is uplifting you?

But if it's wonderful life, you know, like Christmas Carol, like like all of these you know, you get a glimpse of what the world is really like, can you come out changed?

All of those stories end with the happy ending of and you're a better man because of it, and now you're happier and you can appreciate your fellow man and Brazil spoilers ends up with the main character in a much worse place and every you know, the truth of the world he's seen is that everyone is either inept or greedy.

You know, there's it's it's the anti It's a Wonderful Life, It's the anti Christmas.

I love that you've picked a movie to start with that is going to very much hold the mirror up to nature of what I think a lot of us feel like we're going through this holiday season.

It's that's the thing watch Brazil.

It's there's a are you aware of the soap opera in the UK?

Deeply okay?

So Eastanders Christmas episode is famous because it's they always save the worst one for Eastanders for a Christmas rather Christmas EA standards always has you know, a big family fight, a shocking revelation that ruins someone's life.

The first big Christmas episode had the father of the main family having a nervous breakdown because he couldn't pay for the presents, and like, because it's a British soap opera, it's not you know, two minutes and then out and then there's a bug about it like oh and someone got a teddy beer.

No, it's like twenty minutes of him weeping and you know, destroying the furniture and just losing his mind and it's all played very seriously.

But the joy of he Centers Christmas is no matter how bad your Christmas is, you can watch he Centers like it.

I'm not you know, it's that and that's where Brizilla is Brazil is the same thing as bad as your Chris.

It gives you all the shot and for the feelings that you want.

Also, and that's the best gift.

At least I'm not that guy.

Uh.

If you watch Brazil, or you have watched Brazil and you've never watched there is a Chris Hrexson ninth Doctor Adventure where he meets a character called Cassandra, who is just a face that's been plastic surged to death.

It very much feels of a piece with Brazil if you like.

If you like that, watch that episode of Doctor Who.

If yes, if you're familiar with any of the Russell Davis goes for satire episodes, Brazil fits into that lineage great.

You can sometimes he shows his reference and I feel like that is one of the heavier Gilliam references.

Okay, Brazil, let me raise you a movie that came out when I was barely alive.

Because the categories of Ashley's list are was I alive or was I not alive?

Because some of them are quite old, and this one I was but an infant.

It's the basickest, most obvious choice for this, but I do feel like it is a decent Christmas adjacent movie.

It's also in the category like Diehard of I only saw it last year for the first time, and that is nineteen ninety two's American superhero film Batman return It's dun, dun, dun.

The crossover continues this.

Yeah, this was the one crossover we had last time.

Yeah, it's I think this movie is a great film because Michelle Biffer.

I don't know if I think subject anything about it.

It is like a It's like when you watch it, you're like, this isn't good.

I'm having a wonderful time.

It is like watching a Godzilla movie.

Because this movie, I think excels at vibes and what I do like about Christmas and uh yule Tide and sort of the end of the year holiday season is the feelings and you you kind of touched on the goodwill part of it.

But I think also as a Canadian, I do like the stark, cold, difficult parts that come with Christmas, and Batman Returns has those on clear display through the Tim Burton aesthetics because he thinks none of us have ever seen German expressionism before.

This is the movie that gives you the Catwoman eating the bird, which again my top fear is that little bird would have pooped in my mouth if I did that.

We'll set the animal cruelty aside.

I'm just like, why would you put an animal in your mouth?

It's going to poop in there.

It has that, It has the sequence of her using the whip where she hits all of the mannequins, which was famously the first take, which is so iconic.

It has the best suit ever, which is why they co opted it for because Hundra kne suit the best back girl ever.

And it has the hell here sequence, the hello there side, which finally, in this the Year of Our Lord twenty twenty five, they have been mass producing.

It's it's just so strange, like it's hobble pot stuff in the I mean there are penguins, so like that's a vibe.

Wait, you don't like Phoebe herman like send send into.

The I like watching him do anything.

I just don't understand why we then took the penguin and we're like, what if he was a mutant?

Though, I also feel bad for the little baby.

It's like every Superman origin when they put the little baby down I'm like sad for the baby, and like this does make me feel sad for Oswald caah blah blat.

Yeah, you're like, yeah, this is worse because that baby is wearing makeup and then prosthetics as we are sending him off into this.

The other thing that you have to think about in that sequence, if you're like up on your SAG rules, is that babies can only be on set for a total of four hours a day.

You can only shoot with them for fifteen minutes, and then they are alloted a two hour break.

So the speed with which these sequences would have been shot and I'm not saying the SAG girls in nineteenninety two were the same as they are now, but it's always been quite string around babies, so they would have either shot them very quickly, or they shot with this baby for like a full week, and that is always going through the back of my mind when I watch it as well.

Or it's not really a baby, it's just a very very very weird oversized.

Set uh huh.

Or they make quite lifelike babies, so perhaps, but there are some there are some chats where it's obviously a baby and I'm just like, man, can you imagine shooting this with a baby?

But bam on terms is like it's it's such a great again, It's a film that the Christmas part of it is a completely incidental to what's actually happening in the film, but be weirdly cynical.

But we don't nobody likes Christmas in this.

It doesn't end.

If this was written by you know, Tom King or whoever, now, it would end with a sequence where Bruce and Selena go back to the manor they hug Outfred on the way and then they give out Christmas presents to their various orphan children, you know what I mean, Like.

They're as supposed to Selena getting like, yeah, like disappearing.

I'm thinking she's saying them just being like, well.

It does have the classic Christmas we're gonna like make out on a couch by the fire sequence, with which I find strange.

I don't know if I think Michael Keaton and Michelle Pfeiffer have a ton of chemistry, but I'm I don't know about you.

Graham a couple couple, you know, but I find him a strange choice for Batman, even though I do enjoy him in most things.

He was.

He's not the most obvious Batman, He's possibly the most unlikely of all Batman.

But but it fits with Batman returns, which is not what anyone today would ever make.

For a bull.

And this is my top recommendation on the list for if you are going to enjoy your toxicin of choice, if you had like a whole box of line or some cookies that had, you know, some addition to them that you weren't planning on, this is what you put on to enjoy, you know, or you put it on, put it on in the background with your friends, and then four or five beers in everybody's just quietly watching the movie instead of commenting on it, because it is such a vibe.

Is it good?

It is?

Again, it's subject great.

I'm not sure it's objectively good, but it's subjectively great.

It does also win bonus points in my in my head canon, I guess for having a Robin in it.

So I'll take what we can get.

Like I'll take the robin.

Look, he's not a bad robin, but there are problems with the characterization.

But there's a Robin in it, so everybody knows that.

For me, that's a plus.

So Batman Returns nineteen ninety two is my fifth.

I think because I messed up the numbering last time, I think I should go again so that I don't have to go twice at the end.

You again, you can twice know and then then.

There'll be more drama at the end of like ooh, what are our number ones?

So my second this is in the column of Astley was not Alive and it is nineteen sixties the apartment that that Dad.

It's because it.

Is again just completely incidentally set at Christmas in that it takes place sort of during the lead up to Christmas and then that hush period that comes in between Christmas and New Year's So there are featured scenes that happen at the company Christmas party, which, as someone who has never been in person to a company Christmas party, is my absolute nightmare.

If you are not familiar with the apartment, what are you even doing with your life?

Go stream it right now.

It is on HBO Max.

It is written and directed by Billy Wilder.

Billy Wilder is one a Ding Dang genius and two, along with Howard Hawks, responsible for every sexy romantic comedy made before nineteen seventy.

Someone somewhere is screaming into their iPhone that I've said that and left out somebody else.

I'm shure.

It's also you could argue that they're also responsible for setting up all the framework for all the sexy from into company security.

Absolutely, I mean yeah.

If you watch this, particularly if you are a rom com girly and you've never seen any of their work, you'll be like, oh, it's like watching Psycho.

You're like, oh, now I understand all of horror selected by these works.

It stars Jack Lemon, Shelie McClain, Fred McMurray, Ray Walston, Edie Adams, like all of the all of the big heavy hitters from both theater and film at the time, because it used to be that your framework to success was to do kind of what Graham talked about with the cast of Brazil.

You kind of go and toil away in theater and make no money and preside on Ramen noodles, and then eventually someone's like, oh, you're pretty good at this, and they put you on film.

So despite it being heightened language and an older time period, it does feel imminently modern and relatable.

It is about two male characters.

I think, what is the other one's boss?

And they share rents on an apartment which they're going to split for their respective amorous affairs, and in in true you know, nineteen sixties fashion, it doesn't work out.

They come across each other, they come across other people.

All of it comes undone, in various states of undress, but not that undressed, because it is nineteen sixties, so you know.

It's based on a Broadway musical that was written by Neil Simon, which I think also really tells you the vibes that you need to know, and you will.

You'll find a music band reference in it, and you will enjoy the absolute wild plastic decor of the American holiday season throughout.

I can't tell you there's not a ton of plot to it.

I can't tell you that much about the plot without spoiler basically who winds up with who.

There's a very famous line for the final scene, which is shut up and deal.

And if that appeals to you this Christmas time, I really think The Apartment is for you.

It's also not for nothing on the AFI Top one hundred list of films to watch, so it's good.

Outside of my it is objectively good.

Outside of my recommendation, it.

Also features heartbreaking firms from Julin McLean at one point, like she properly gets me in the fields.

There's one point in the film, uh and the best cinematic scene of someone making spaghetti ever, especially my God.

Yes, and if you doubt my assertion that it's a chrisst movie, there is a credited actor named House Smith who does play Santa Claus.

Is it in a bar?

Is he intoxicated?

Who could possibly say?

I leave that to you because maybe your version of Santa's like the fun Scandinavian and Slavic ones who eats the amanita mushrooms and hallucinates.

So if you like that kind of Santa, then yes, all right, Graham, what is your I guess number three?

Because you got stuck putting Batman returns at number four along with me.

I mean, is the one I watched?

The one I watched yesterday?

Yes, Grandma, the wonder that it is nineteen to eighty four Gremlins, which is very much a Christmas movie, to the point where when I was rewatching it last night, I was like, Oh, they're specifically ripping up moments from It's a wonderful light throughout this film, which I had never noticed before.

I have seen it many times.

I saw when it came out because I'm like, actually.

I was not alive.

But I saw this movie for the first time.

I was eight, and it made me cry and I turned it off and I didn't watch it till I was a grown up.

I'm much like Et, as I told you last time, and I will repeat for everyone here.

The first time I ever saw it was on a pirate video because again I'm very old, but it only had the scenes up to when Et was found, and so all you ever saw was his fingers, and then it cut out every scene with Et actually in it and went to the bit where Elliott is dying and they're all there in their haus Mad suits and so Et is a horror film to me this day, it is absolutely terrifying.

Told that story several times since you witly told it to me.

Grandma's is great, the Grandma's is It's funny.

I watched it on HBO Max because that's how we watch these days, and it's got an introduction from TCM and the intructions are like it's a nineteen eighty four horror film.

And I practically shouted the television it's a It is kind of a horror film, but like not really deep plotrror.

The twist of it is horror, but there's two big mistakes, and one it's that those puppets are adorable, and.

Yes, even when they're meant to be monsters, they are able.

Then long to snow fights.

Fight, Yeah, twisted it, I think is the scary thing because the framing device is very much like boy gets dog for Christmas and doesn't know how to properly care for it, and then it sort of has to mature through that journey.

But like the the framing device, like getting it from the the Asian Nickknacks door with it not at all racist portrayal of immigrant culture.

Yeah, no, no again, why am I just picking it's.

I'm really sorry, But at least it's incidental.

I guess that makes it one percent better.

You know, the don't feed it, don't get it wet, don't feed it after midnight, like, all of those rules are very much horror rules.

But Gizmo is not a bad guy.

No, not at all, And even though all the other gremlins are bad guys, everything else, that's all the other mog White Slash Gremlins that spun it from her are immediately bad guys, like immediately they start building him as soon as they appear.

Gizmo himself is just a very friendly little blue who like simple keyboard and sing.

But it's it's so obviously comedy, and it's so obviously a satire of all.

The yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

You know, like like more than anything else, you know, you have you have the old woman who works alongside banks.

She doesn't work out the bank, but she is she screwed.

Why are banks so prolific in Christmas movies?

And also Spider Man two?

Well, I mean here, it's because so much.

Gremlins is just a parody of yeah.

You're right, and it's the Savings.

And it's explicitly so because you get the You get a scene early on in the film where the mother is watching It's a Wonderful Life on television and you see the end of its wonderful life spoilers when uh jimmy shirt is running through.

The I can't which is where they're from.

But it's like, I love you, but you know, Savings alone Hello theater, and you get a mirror image of that scene later in the film, except it's it's that Gallaghan and Pbkate's.

Running running in Terror and Horror.

Yes, but but the like a remake of it, and they purposely see it in there.

It start to be like, I hope you've seen this film.

If not, this is the scene we're going to.

If not, enjoy your film education right now.

You're welcome.

I was trying to think of Bedford Falls in my brain was just giving me Mayberry and I was like, no, that's a different old fake down in La.

Bedford Bedford Falls or Pottersville.

When it's yes, Oh my goodness, because because it gets his name.

I've seen that film so many times.

Grandma's is also explicitly Christmas movie because the best scene of the film is bbk's talking about what happened to her fession, which is she is like, it's one of those films where you know, I first saw when I was ten, and I was like, okay, whatever because I was ten, and then you rewatch it and I don't, and you're like, She's like.

Objectively, it's actually upsetting, like.

That's kind of shocking, beautiful, but her her, that's actually her story about what happened her Dad is the most horror part of the film.

Yeah, I'm not going to say what it is because people who haven't seen Gremlins, I don't want to spoil that moment for you, but it is an amazing monologue that I feel everyone should be.

I was going to say, if you are are somebody who needs great needs something to add to your reel, and we all suffer from the same issue of like, God, can I come up with something that no one's heard before that would actually be a you probably have to transcribe yourself, it would be a great, a great pull.

Graham, do you ascribe that when you watch Gremlin's you must watch Gremlins two immediately after because Grandma's too amazing but also very bad.

Very But it's also a very different film.

Grammlin's two is what happens when Gremla's one just like gives up.

Gremlin's one is just like, now we don't care what's blowed, we don't care about blood, We're just going to go for more of the weird stuff.

Yes, no, Grandma's Two is a great follow up to grid It's very difficult.

I also love that they were like, oh bride, of Chucky.

We will give you an even scarier projection of femininity than that.

It's true.

But but do you have the and Grandma's one?

They even have the Gremlin who does the Olivia John?

That's so sure?

Why not Gremlins?

It's America coming to terms with its own past.

And also, wow, I didn't know we were going to go that deep on Gremlin's I love that very much.

Now I'm going to pivot to a film that came out when I was alive and also quite recently, and I saw it at the drive in at the height of COVID and was still a really good movie.

And that is twenty twenty one's The Green Nights.

And because I didn't lead with this last time and Graham called me out on it, dev Patela has never been more beautiful than he appears in The Green Knight.

That is canon.

He's a very good He got in his like long hair era around is the movie called Lion or Leon.

I always want to call it Leon, but I just think that's me projecting ethnicity on the European continent.

He had long hair for a while and it really really pays off in The Green Night.

It is written and directed by David Lowry, who I interviewed because he also did Pete's Dragon for Disney and he was a goddamn de light.

Spent the whole time talking about how he works on horror films and didn't know why he was directing a Disney movie.

And then the next thing he made was this, And I have to say, mister David Laurie, you were right, and I think this movie's genius.

I am obsessed with King Arthur.

I specialized in Arthurian legend and lore when I was in university.

Although my hot take is at the best Arthurian lore is written by Marie de Fras, not even in the English language.

You could confide me about it on threads.

What's great about The Green Knight, though, is it is a direct lift from the classic myth, the classic poem most famously and prolifically brought into the modern age of translation by J.

R.

Tolkien, Perfect human Being JR.

R.

Tolkien, and it takes all the beauty and all the lore of that shrinks it down to the reality of what it would have been like to live in pre medieval and medieval England, which you know would have been horrifying no matter where you were, because the times were hard, and then says, but what if he had like a cute fox, and what if there was a giant?

And it's quite so it starts off quite harsh and hard where he's sent on his quest and he's like, yep, I'm going no problem.

I'll go fight the Oak King.

I'm celtic, I'm all up on my Holly King versus Oak King.

That's the changing of the seasons and paganism it has been for decades.

I'll go fight the Oak King.

Summer is over and so it happens, yoking on the Holly King, fight the oh King wins, it becomes winter, and then he has this beautiful journey through the woods.

He meets some interesting people.

Joel Edgerton is there being like, remember when I was at King Arthur in two thousand and three with you on Griffith, And I'm like, I do you still look great?

They have a weird little romance scene in the middle if you are into people maybe kissing in a Christmas movie.

And then at the end it truly descends back into the horror of the season when Ralph innocent and what I can only assume is at his full stature, because the man is one hundred feet tall, shows up with minimal voice modulation to play the coolest, coom scariest version of the Oak King we've ever seen, and then maybe he dies question Mark, And that is my favorite part of the whole movie.

Not that I'm necessarily into Christmas movies about killing yourself, but I think I am revealing that I'm into Christmas movies about examining your own humanity, which goes back to sort of the nice vibes Graham's talking about at the opening.

And I like that The Green Knight takes us through the darkness, into the whimsy, into the marriage of the two in the final act.

So since twenty twenty one, this has become a regular Christmas film rotation in my household, and only minimally because of how beautiful dev Patela is, but mostly because of how beautiful David Lowe lays out the story.

So The Green Knight, I love how much you love this film on how absolutely clear it is.

Thank you.

I almost put it as number one, but I went for the one that I think has a more universal theme.

But this you say that The Green Night is an amazing film and one of those films where you see it and you're kind of like, I don't think I've ever quite seen something like that before.

It also didn't get in the awards season.

In my opinion, it deserved more awards, but I'm not going right now.

I also had Barry Keegan in it before any of us knew who Barry Keegan was, so that's always fun as well.

Oh little pinch faced rings and Barry.

We're just.

It was like when he was in shoo Nobile.

I was like, that guy's cool, and then I was like, oh, that was that guy?

Was Barry Keegan.

Fun Graham, what's your next?

I don't remember what number we're on.

Choice number for your best, don't shot.

I'm going to go for the one that has Christmas entitle but isn't a Christmas film.

There's a film.

It's a TV movie from nineteen sixty four called Carol for a great As the name might suggest, it's a Christmas Carol riff, but it's not a Christmas Carol.

There is no Scrooge, there is no realizing that you know the joy of the season is to is to love your family and be a better human being.

The lesson that is learned from the structure of a Christmas Carol, which is one lift is to stop being a nationalist and start being.

A global That.

It's Rod Serling from nineteen sixty four, so around about Twilight's Own Times.

He writes just A Mankovitz, who directed Guys It Dolls, is the director.

It is a film about the Cold War, and it's a film about why people who believe that the only thing you should do is protect your own country and not look beyond them are dooming their own country.

There is a trip back to the past, there's a trip to the president, there's a trip to the future.

The future in this film is the Cold War future of nineteen sixty four, which is to say, it's a post of atomic war.

Peter Sellers said, this where Peter Peter Sellers, Robert Shaw, Peter Sellers playse This is a great film.

Actually, this is a great film.

Peter Sealer's plays a character called Imperial Meme is the leader of a cult of personality in Posts Apocalyptic.

Oh okay, so they were like, oh we saw Doctor Strangelove.

You want to be even weirder, even more on.

Ith Yeah, yeah, yeah, you want to Doctor Strange love more so, and Peter Sellers was like, I can eat all the scenery and they're like, that's great, we don't have that much scenery.

It's a TV movie.

Oh it opens with an Andrew Sister song.

Okay, the people I mean, obviously Rod Serling, Ja mank, what's incredible.

But I was like, oh, we had some good takee going on.

Henry Mancini did this score.

Oh yeah, No, it's it's this amazing Christmas cairl for people who don't like Christmas.

So actually, I also it's a Christmas Carol, so.

You will.

You will genuinely appreciate this film.

I don't know if you'll love it, you'll genuinely appreciate.

It's apparently on YouTube, so very gettable.

It's on YouTube.

It's as well because it was shown once in nineteen sixty four and then it disappeared for thirty years.

No one screen did, no one rewatched it, no one seemed to know it existed.

I can kind of forgive that, particularly coming from Canada, because this happened to like a lot of our media.

It would come out and it would be like, well, it's an incredibly small market, why would we ever air this again, so it just gets put on a shelf somewhere.

And then, now, in the age of information media, where everybody's number one fear at the beginning of COVID was we were going to have nothing left to watch, all this stuff kind of makes its way back online and you're like, oh, I mean this sounds amazing and beautiful and thoughtful and interesting.

But I can also understand how you would be like, but where is the mass appeal in something like this?

Oh?

No, exactly, And also it is beautiful and thought provoking.

It's also, as you can tell by Peter Seller's playing character Covim periodly, Yes, yeah, it is.

You know, it is rud Serling at his least subtle if anything, but it is.

It's genuinely touching, and it's it's the story that gets to the thing I'm talking about at the start, about people are trying to be better, even if they're not actually being better without the you know, no one's opening a window and asking what da it is?

There's no turkey at the end.

There's no turkey.

There's no small rabbit to catch the coin when Michael Kaine throws it.

None of that, I know.

The best part the best Christmas Carol.

I think you will agree with me as them up.

I'm the best part of that film actually might be the the little bunny who's who got just the going and it's just adorable.

I love that little bunny.

Also any any any cute.

But that's not Robin the Frog.

I am here for because I hate Robin the Frog.

I love Robin.

Robin the Frog.

I know.

With him that's a that's another plus.

He's a monster and I do not like him.

I love Robins and I love Kermit, and I don't love Robin the Kermit Frog.

I just keep see again Christmas.

He dies there, it's fine.

You get characters mourning his passing.

Bless oh I guess he comes back again.

Just damn it.

Okay, sorry everyone, sorry for spoiling from spoiling a.

Two hundred piece of classic literature.

That's fine.

It's not Dodd in schools anymore.

It's it's okay, It's whatever.

Carol for another Christmas is like, I highly recommen for anyone who wants who anyone who wants formalists to play on like, I would like to see a Christmas Carol.

Christmas Carol for anyone who wants to see Col's war fiction, you know from the sixties where they were really good at that sort of thing and speaking ombliquely, But they're not really speaking ombliquely.

Like, this is very clearly a film that the need to be globalist.

It's it's a joy for anyone who likes Swiley's on.

It's really I feel like it would also make a good follow up if people were watching Brazil.

It seems like they share maybe not themes, but certainly the same philosophical roots.

Yes, I'm sorry for turning Christmas.

I'm the one who loves Christmas, and I'm like, but you should think about the poetic.

Yeah, but you should really consider what your place's planet is.

That's okay.

I'll give you my number two, which is also loadedly politically charged.

It's slightly more modern than a Christmas Carol, but definitely well before I was born and my parents and I am picking nineteen forties because here's also my hot take nineteen thirty nine and nineteen forty as you for a film highly underrated nineteen forties The Shop around the Corner.

It is an adaptation of a Hungarian play called Pafumeri, which is probably not pronounced like that.

That's the French pronunciation, but it is spelled the same way by a man with a bunch of accents over his name.

And I apologize, but I will not be trying to speak it because my Hungarian is non existent.

It stars Margaret Sullivan and Jimmy Stewart, The King of all Christmas Movies exactly Gally gives Eastern European vibes when he strides into his room.

It's it's I would say, it's.

It's more of a love story than anything else.

It's about this nice man and woman who work at a department store that is run by the guy what played the Wizard of Oz, and he's giving the exact same performance as he gives as the Citizens of Oz and the Wizard of Oz.

And they do not like each other.

He thinks he's smarter than her.

He is of course wrong, because that's feminism.

She thinks he's a jerk, and that is of course correct, because that's feminism.

But they're both they're both so lonely and the It also for coma be out of nineteen forty implicitly deals with the oncoming Second World War.

It's set during the First World War, but they're living in the shadow of invasion and these kind of scary things going on, So you'll have these cutesy scenes of them inside, and then they go out and read the newspaper the next morning on their way to work, and it's very dire, and so they take it out on each other in their sort of small world that they can control.

But they're both so lonely, so they did what anyone would do before tinder.

They write to the newspaper in the miss Lonely Hearts column and they become each other's pen pals.

And it is the story of their world and their circumstances falling apart around them as they come together.

And this all happens in the lead up to the holiday season.

It's so beautiful, like cute is not a good enough word.

It's so lovely and beautiful.

It's actually touching.

It's genuinely as touchable.

And it's directed by Ernst Lubich, who there's a bar here called Bar Lubitch in La that has a lot of comedy performances on it.

If you listen to Greg Proops's podcast The Smartest Man in the World.

One time they were recording there and uh.

John Demaggio, who voices Bender, was also there.

He was not performing, he was not on the microphone, but he was shouting and you can hear him very clearly in the whole recording.

And that is my favorite story about Barlubitch.

The Joy Voice actors the exactly.

And they're not afraid to do it.

So if you're if you're watching some of these suggestions and Graham's got you too philosophical, you put on the Shop around the Corner and it's really a good old fashioned love story told in the style of the time.

I believe it's available at HBO Max because that's where all of the good classics are.

The time has come are said to talk of many things.

Graham, what's your number one best non traditional Christmas movie?

It is another nineteen It's also Max because, like you said, that's where the good stuff is.

It's another romance kind of Thin Man nineteen thirty Fists of the Thin Man, The Joy That is the Thin Man, which maybe one of the greatest films ever made, maybe my favorite film is that's ever been made in general, and is very much a Christmas film.

For people who haven't seen it, it is who done it kind of there are crimes and they're looking for a particular person who might have done the crime.

But that's not the whole story in many ways, both in terms of the plots.

There's more to it than you think, but in terms of the film, the film's not about the mystery.

It's called the Thin Man.

They're looking for the thin Man.

That's not what it's about.

It's about the two lead actors, William Powell and Murner ali as Nick and Nora Charles, a married couple.

He used to be a detective, She is a socialite.

He is now kind of her manager.

It is it is unclear, but they are.

They have the most perfect cinematic relationship ever they are.

They play off each other wonderfully.

They are fearlessly in love, and it's very clear.

It's there's no like.

There is bickering, but the bickering is entirely affectionate.

You never for a second think that they do not anything feel ending for each other other than complete devotion.

But they are functional alcoholics, scrematic.

I mean, there's a great scene.

It's when you first meet them.

You meet Nick and he is in a bar and he's teaching the bartenders how to make their drinks, because that's just who he is.

And he's then interrupted by the rival of Nora, who has been interrupted from her shopping, which she's doing with their dog, Askeda, because they have a dog who is the third closer of the film and is amazing.

But Asta is going into all the local bars to try and find Nick because that is where they are.

And when Norm meets them, she's like, how many of those have you had?

He says five, and she asks for five.

So that's the relationship they have.

It is.

The two of them are spectacular, and they're played by, like I said, William Powell renal I and they the two actors do it faultlessly.

It is such a joy to watch the two of them.

So the mystery is wonderful.

There is a twist.

I'm not gonna even vaguely spoil it, but you're not watching for that.

It's all you're watching for William pelleinmrna I having fun with each other for like an hour and a half and it is the most wonderful.

So I watched this after you recommended it the first time we recorded, and you described one of the party scenes as absolutely harrowing, and that is the most accurate description.

There is a Christmas party.

There's a Christmas party.

It is and by which I mean amazing.

Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's yeah.

And there's a dinner party scene which is also a joy.

Just you know, the performances, but the mechanics of the whole thing.

The writing is extraordinary throughout the whole thing.

But it really is the performances.

It really is how everyone in that film is having so much fun.

Also for people who like their pop culture.

The one of the suspects is played by Cesar Romero, who would then you know, thirty years later go on to be the Joker and is literally unrecognizable.

Yeah, yeah, unrecognizable in this film because he is a heart throb in this film.

He's a very sure.

They brought him in for the ladies and he was like, I don't want the ladies.

But he does look fantastic.

Am I wrong in thinking that there were eighty five thousand sequels to this movie?

There's something except a long time and they get progressively worse, of course, although I will say the thin Man's first one and the second is called after the thin Man.

The second one is also very very good, and has this strange distinction of literally starting the day after the first one Fish.

Yes, I remember you saying this, and you're like, what a bizar I mean?

Then Star Wars went on to make this choice repeatedly.

But what it is our choice when everyone has visibly aged.

Yeah, it's so.

At the end of the Thin Man, again, this is not spoiling anything.

Nick and nor are on a train going from New York to California going home, and they go to bed and the nets film starts to Ned's day when they wake up, which is such a choice.

Can you imagine how long that train ride would have been?

Like a week?

You know what?

No, I'm trying to think about it because the last time I was in Seattle, I got a So I live in Portland, which is, you know, very close to Seattle.

But every train I get back from Seattle to Portland actually goes all the way down to la.

Yeah, and every time I got on the train, and also like I should just like one day, should just get the trick.

So I did it.

I did it after one Ever's crety comic, and I took the train all the way from Seattle to LA's supposed to take thirty six hours and thirty nine because it took us three hours to leave because one toilet wasn't working, and uh.

That doesn't really count.

That doesn't count in the travel way.

We were like, so it takes a day and a half, yea, all the way down, so and that's just you know, yeah, of course, yeah, so you get across the country would take you It really would take you about.

So But I often think about that.

In one of my favorites of all time is his girl Friday, and they are they are in New York and they are going to take a train to Albany so that they can have their honeymoon with the guy she doesn't wind up marrying's mum.

And I'm like, man, that really would have been a thing for decades and decades to be like, oh, not only are we going somewhere boring for a honeymoon, but we're going to take the train and it's going to take one hundred thousand years.

So you would get the sleeper card.

It would be this whole experience and like, oh, what a what a nightmare.

I have to say that because it would take so long to get across country, which I've never thought about before it ruins the timeline of listening.

Yes, also because yeah the ane No, it's just to say, the thin Man happens, Christmas happens, and then the film continues for like days, and then after the thin Man they arrived to a new year.

Pot.

Oh, well maybe maybe I was going to say.

It's also written by The movie is written by Dashial Hammett, who you may remember from such classics as the Maltese.

So that's hestrode the screenplay.

That's why it's so good for Booze.

In exchange for booze.

But the original book, he also wrote the book, and the original book is a joy to read.

Anyone who wants to read the old nineteen thirties poets, find the original sid mombook.

Get it from your local library.

Okay, so you picked something fun and interesting and I picked something that I find to be emotionally devastating.

This is currently of This has been my favorite Christmas movie for about a decade and a half, and it's never been streaming anywhere in North America because it is a copro of France, Scotland, and Germany, and so that means that North Americans don't care and don't want it, but you're wrong.

It's great.

It is now available on Netflix.

They have mistitled it, which irritates me to no end because they have translated the title into English, so it is called Merry Christmas if you're doing a cursor research it on Netflix.

The film is actually called Juia Noel, which is the French phrase for Merry Christmas.

And it's a two thousand and five war drama film set during the First World War on Christmas Eve, and it tells the story of a group of French.

In this description, it says British, but they're Scottish.

I don't care about Great Britain.

Scott of Britain.

I keep on telling you that, but that.

People in North America when you say British, they think English.

I know it's someone who's Scottish and lives in North America.

It's an issue.

So it's a group of French, Scottish and German soldiers.

They all take off for New Year's Eve, and then over the course of the movie they all poke their heads out of their little trenches and then they all come up and they play soccer together, and they trade socks and chocolate, and they complain about their rations and they take out photos of their loved ones and they share them with each other.

Daniel Brule is the way pre barren Zemo.

This is like just post Goodbye Lenin, which is the indie movie that made him really famous in Germany.

He's the leader of the German Cavalcadive people, the guy who is in What under Woman, who plays Spud in train Spotting and will always be Spud in train Spotting to be uh, isn't so much He spun from train Spotting.

And the last time we did this you asked me, you said, did you not know about this?

We learned this as history and it's it's.

A it's a big deal in the UK because it's it's a true story, like you know in World War One, in the first Christmas World War One the unofficially.

And then as as is illustrated the movie.

So this I learned about this as a piece of history by my teacher who was too lazy to teach us about it, putting on this movie instead.

He was also from Scotland.

Fun fat.

That's because he was too lazy.

That he was one of those people who had lived in Canada since he was three years old and should not have had an accent, but definitely put on the accent.

So anyway, at the end of the movie, as I believe happened in real history, it's hard to kill somebody that you view as a human being.

And so the Germans come over and they're like, well, we're gonna be shelling you in about twenty minutes, so if you want to come over to our bunker, you can be safe there, and like, that's what happens, and they can't.

So there's a cutaway scene to their leaders of their respective countries getting furious that a shred of humanity has come through to their soldiers, and the end of the movie is them all being packed on a train and shipped off somewhere else.

Somewhere else is where they can do their jobs and kill each other.

And it's very sad and it's very beautiful, and I do like part of the Christmas spirit being a bit weepy, and I think Troy and Noel is a great reflection of that.

I think it's one of the finest indie movies ever made.

Did win Best Foreign Film because you know, God forbid, we just appreciate foreign films.

Is sometimes better than all the other films that came out this year.

Why do we just call it exactly that we let Romo win Best Picture, but we could let Joyauel in Best Picture in two thousand and five.

What would it have been up against maybe Broke Back Mountain, which is what should have won Crash rather Joyan Noel had won.

But it really is heart wrenching.

But it's a very very well made film.

And you will see every character actor from Europe who was played.

The crazy Russian guy in a Mission Impossible even though he is German, or the crazy Spanish guy who was definitely French, who was in a James Bond movie.

They're all in this movie, and they all look quite young because it is from two thousand and five, which is now twenty years ago, which is upsetting to me personally.

So that's my top recommendation.

I like how we move on from the real tragedy of Worlar Woods.

You'd be like, I'm Greg older.

Yeah, to me, my grappling with aging at a CRISP twenty one, I don't quite know how I'm feel twenty years from now, Graham, would you run down your list for everybody one more time before we move on.

Yeah, so my list is Brazil, Batman returns Gremlin's Karl for another Christmas.

And it's knowing you.

It's a very gram list and I appreciate that very much.

So no, it's absolutely why I asked you.

My list is Batman Returns the Apartment, the Green Knight, the Shop around the Corner, and Joya Noel, which again I feel like is a very Ashley coated list.

We don't do these subjectively.

We do them objectively because sometimes your opinion is the most interesting thing about you, and I think unfortunately this is the case.

If you want to get any and all of these, you can head over to geek hisstory, lesson dot com, slash recommended reading.

We will have links to pick up all of them in your media form of choice, because we do have a lot of physical media guys and gals here at the Geek History lesson Graham.

I know you don't want anyone to find you anywhere, but if people do want to contact you to tell you why Gremlins two is the superior Gremlins movie, where can they do that on the Internet.

First of all, you're wrong, You're wrong.

You're wrong, You're wrong.

You can I'm for all of Ted's purposes off social media, but if you're going to find me anywhere, you should find me in Blue Sky, which is at Graham m atbsky dot.

Yeah, they definitely don't make it easy and it eats into the character counts and that is my number one complaint about it.

What have we learned today?

Well, friends, today we have learned that just because it's not supposed to be about Christmas doesn't mean it won't give you the feels.

Existential dread will lead you to unexpected comedies and turning into a better person.

And the thirties and the forties had more great movies than perhaps we first expected.

If you want to hear more of Scottish icon Graham McMillan, he is sticking around for Geekshriy Lesson Extra and we're going to be talking about some of the media that we enjoyed in twenty twenty five.

Graham, thank you so much for joining us for the first time on geek History.

Lesson, thank you very much for coming for the first time.

And class is now dismissed.