With Laurent's segle And from London and Gerard Reed from Berlin.

This is redefining energy.

Today.

On redefining energy, we're going to talk about solar ground.

Yeah.

And as ultimately you were at the Solar Power so Much a few months back and you moderated a panel which was around the team winning the Flex challenges, which obviously is really critical to SOLO going forward.

Yeah.

So I was invited by SO Europe who organized the whole debate.

It was in Brussels, you know, great theater and oh my god, we were like six on stage, which was difficult to moderate.

But no better man than you to step up to.

The challenge, certainly.

So I had on stage Andrea Wetchler from the European Parliament Regacia and she's from DG Energy.

And then from a perspective, I had Nick Bitzios from Metland, Juan river Abad from ABAD, Roller Vlasio Suffliss from Light Source BP and finally Jose Manuel Cavallo from Arslo Metal.

And the old debate was what's the green industrial deal?

Does it work?

Does it answers the current issue faced by the solar developers and the energy consumer and the debate was very lively and we had the interesting outcomes.

Oh why don't we listen to its.

Hello for those who are leaving the room, you're making a big mistake because the action is going to be here.

Thank you for the introduction.

As this is going to be recorded for a live podcast.

There's no video, it's just audio.

So when I raise my hand, you need to make some noise.

I invite my six fellow panelists to climb on the stage.

So we have a very diverse panel, two regulators to producers of solar and to consumer of solar energy.

And the question is do we have a great harmony between all my panelists or are they going to be a bit of a friction, which I hope because it makes always better material.

So we have Nick Bitios, the head of the Brussel's office at Metland, Juan Rivier Abad, head of Global Renovables at hiber Rolla Vlast, josufls COO Light Source BP, jose Manuel Carvalo, head of Runerable Energy at Arcelometale, Andrea Weschler.

So that we already thank you.

Rega Cia.

Oh my god, I mean your title is a mouseful.

So acting hou runevable energy system integration, the energy no cool So you're ready, I'm going to ask the first question.

So the first question is for Andrea and then Polar or vice versa.

So you've put together this great Clean Industrial Deal and especially apparently there are four main subcategories around industrial decombanization, affordable energy and flex For you, the question is very simple, how the success looks like in the next five years.

Well, thank you very much for having me here today, and I have to clearly sad.

The Clean Industrial Dea, of course, is the work of the Commission and Parliament and representative of the people.

We have of course given substantively input on what we are expecting after the elections last year.

Now the expectation in terms of the Clean Industrial Deal and especially also the Energy Affordable Energy Act is certainly the action plan that we see decobnization continuing, but also that we see competitiveness in these areas increasing.

And an additional factor is that energy security must be a key priority for the next couple of years.

So as a parliamentarian, we'll focus on filling the Industrial Deal with life, seeing that we get down the energy costs for the people, for the industry, whilst securing supply of energy for the industry and the people.

Cruder oh la, so no, thank you very much, San, really a blige to join this event, and congratulations of course to SOA BAA Europe.

So I think in the convicts of the Clean Industrial Deal and the Affordable Reaction Plan, but more generally for this mandate, what we would like to see is progress on tackling the fundamental challenges that we're mentioned before, so competitiveness of course, affordable energy, energy security and of course link very much to competitiveness as to sides of the same coin, the carbonization.

And for this I think of course, coming from the angle of very much my digit and my unit.

What we see is that renewable energy, solar also other renewable eno resources are really the key to breach these challenges together.

And this means in terms of measuring success reducing permitting times on the supply side, so that really progresses much quicker on deployment of renewables.

It also requires flexibility of course for integrating renewables into the system, so the man response storage coming together.

It also would require.

Looking at as peving up and increasing the rate of electrification because it's really a way to bring the benefits of renewables to the end consumers, being industry or others, and of course removing the barriers to for instance, long term contracts such as PPAs to then again bring the benefits to the end consumers.

Okay, very nice.

Now, before we got my full fillo corporate, I like to correct the theme of competitiveness, because there is this feeling that everything's very stable in the European grid, or that we lost competitiveness.

But when I look back the past twenty years, we have installed three hundred and fifty gig awad of solar, we have installed two hundred and fifty gya awad of wind, we have retired one hundred and fifty gig awad of coal and thirty ahad of nuclear.

And of course the question is, oh, well, what about the price?

What about the price?

Well, it's very simple.

If you go back twenty years ago, the merchant price in Europe was forty five year open maga.

What hour, which adjusted for inflation, is seventy open maga.

What our today And if you go on the ex like I did yesterday, the calendar twenty eight is at seventy row.

So in fact, the price is the same, despite the fact that we've managed to install a lot of vulnerables.

Now.

Of course, when people compare to the US, that's a totally different story because twenty years ago their prices were fifty percent above hours.

The price of GM was sixty eight dollars or maga what hour, and in Texas was sixty which would be one hundred today.

But now they are not at one hundred today, they are at forty eight in pgm, and they are twenty seven in Texas.

So our competitiveness as stay flat.

Their competitiveness has improved a lot, and that's what we're kind of fighting against.

Unfortunately, we don't have a c of cheap gas, so we need to do it with vulnerables.

Knowing that, I'm gonna ask the first question to Juana.

So you're typet La.

Can you describe what you I mean, everybody knows hybat all I.

Can you describe how solar is important for high Batola.

Of course, thank you very much for inviting me here, but I just wanted to say, you said the beginning this is going to be a podcast, and you wanted some conflict here or some discussion.

I have to say that For me for the moment, I'm very happy because what I'm listening, what I'm hearing exactly what we want to hear.

If we're looking forward.

The only solution for Europe now is electrifying and antifying with your nibules.

And this is a choice that Ivanrola made twenty years ago.

Twenty years ago, it wasn't that easy to decide that we were the first utility to bet Back then it was mostly wind.

But we have bet on wind, we have closed our coal plants, we have bet on solar when solar became affordable, and we are one of the main places in solar now and we are most committed to the energy transition because we think is the only way forward here in Europe.

And as well, we all know we don't have gas, we don't have oil, so we need to play our cards.

And our cards here is renewables which are local, which is going to help us for security, for competitiveness, and we have to speed up forward.

Of course, this is going to be a lot of challenges and here that the difficulties of investing in solar right now.

Even if we invest sixty five gigabas last year, it is true it was today or yesterday in Spain, we had seven hours of zero price.

This year, we have.

Almost three months, so let's see what happens this spring.

So there are challenges ahead.

The good news is that we have the solutions.

The bad news is that it's going to be hard to put its own way.

But so how to do this?

We know the path and that's why we should.

We should be going.

Good, good good.

Okay, so far very nice.

I'm going to ask another provider plus shows, same nice symphony.

Everything's okay.

First of all, I'm very glad to be here.

Thank you so much for hosting us.

I think the last couple of days, especially on the co forum, it was interesting to see that we are not alone.

We have very common concerns, but also very much common opportunities.

So I would reterate the same message.

Light Source is predominantly a solar developer, so we develop, construct, and operate.

We have fifty gigoles of pipeline, of which a very big chunk is mature pipeline in Europe.

So really the question here, just back on the same message, is how quickly can we deploy it and how can we remove all the obstacles that exist at the moment in order to do that, so we all know that the solution is there.

I would add in the element of security, element of climate change and affordable energy, the speed of deployment, right, so like two thousand and three you needed a here to do a gigot, twenty twenty three, that's a gigot per day.

So it's not a question of if we have enough to do things.

The capital is there is how do we remove the obstacles?

And those obstacles are or the known stuff.

The first thing is around great and obviously flexibility is one of the solutions, and utilizing what we have much more efficiently is one.

And then on the permitting side, obviously, what can we do to implement the very good ideas that the Commission is actually having.

The ideas are there, how are the implemented and national level is the question, but very positive.

Okay, it's good.

Now we have the other side of the ledger, so we have the still industry and the yelluminium industry.

Guys, everything's okay, or you want to complain a bit please, We're going to start with Jose thank.

You for the question.

I mean, very pleased to be here today from oslow metal.

Basically, on our side, what we need is the competitive energy and we have that solar is very competitive, so we don't complain on these seven hours of.

Zero europe magower is not a problem.

And what executive vice president as Rivera said, we need to have a sustainable business.

So for us, we understand that there are these seven hours of a zero price are going to be there.

This is not going to motivate any of the players to invest in new renewals.

And on our side, we need more renewables, we more volume, more stable, so that's why we are very supportive of the flex initiative.

Yes, you know, still looks for baseloads.

So it's very difficult when we try to discuss PPAs on solar and we tell them we need baseload, some of the counterparts run away quite fast.

And that's it because basically it's true that our operations, and this is a good side of the transition programs, we are going to have more electric card furnaces.

These are flexible assets, but the base of our operation is still you know, less furnaces, is still continuous casting, continuous operations, so we still look for baseload.

We want more renewals, so I think it's going to on a good way.

We are also looking ourselves into better storage.

I think some of the players there already have invested.

We have not ourselves did it, but we believe if we can get cheap solar together with some storage capacities, we'll be able to have this pizzle power that we are looking for.

Thank you wow, Nick.

I've been introduced as a consumer, but I would say at Metlan we look at solar power from just about every angle that is imaginable.

So on the one hand, we are a very significant developer of solo projects all across the world, so that ranges from Australia, Canada, Chile, most countries in Europe.

We have a pipeline that currently sits at around nine gigawatts of solar PV another two gigawatts of battery storage, very much feeding into the flex them and we are also an electricity utility in Greece, so representing about twenty percent of the retail market.

We have a higher share in generation as well.

But as you've mentioned, Laurent, the main reason I guess that I've been invited to speak to you today is because we are a very significant consumer as well of electricity.

So the aluminium plant that we have in Greece we consume about three terror what hours of electricity each year.

That translates into roughly six percent of the consumption annually in the entire country of Greece.

And if we think about the major challenges that the solar industry is facing, Juan, you mentioned a couple of them, negative prices, curtailments.

A big part of that is obviously of solving it is getting the flexibility into the system.

But another one is that electrification has not so far been progressing at the rate that we wanted and that it needs to.

And many of the existing industrial installations, because of this energy crisis we've been going through, have been forced to shut down.

So we had two years in a row where instead of electricity consumption increasing, it actually dropped, and then it's sort of flatlined last year.

So I'm here to tell you how we can have a long, thriving, growing electrified industry in Europe.

Wow, Andrea are how do you react to that?

Did you learn anything or it's already in the plan?

Well, I think there is very important points that we are already discussing in the European Parliament, let's talk about the energy internsive industry.

So we've got a debata on the agenda next week and we're working on an initiative report because electrification certainly is the backbone of the energy transformation that we're seeing.

But at the same time, there is hard to electrify industries and we need to develop strategies on how to cater for them, and that's been very important input we are receiving from the industry on how we can make flexible energy solutions like solar entity more baseload, how we can make it more flexible, how we increase the storage capacities for the renewable energy.

It's the second very important point that I took away, and that's the speed of deployment, where we absolutely need to decrease and cut the red shape in order to make this big success.

And Parliament is certainly working on this as well.

And there is a third point that has so far not been mentioned, which is great congestion that we are facing, and that's another point that Parliament is working on at the moment with an own initiative report on how we can get the grid up to speed.

Also, the grid interconnecting various European countries in order to provide for the flexibility that we need in between countries to sort of balance out the various increases and decreases of energy supply.

So I think these are very important points confirming the focus that has been laid in the European Parliament.

And so yes, that's our response.

We're working on some of the areas and all the rest of it we take as homework in order to work in further areas.

And Pola, did you learn anything or is it just like a normal there at work.

No, I think it's the emphasism on some elements is quite important.

Then, definitely, regarding some of the references to red tape, an area where we see that there is both a lack of capacity often but also improvements that could be undertaken in relation to the speed of the administrative procedures and relates indeed to permitting that I had mentioned that really will allow moving faster for the deployment of renewavers.

And some of it also connects to some of the elements that was mentioned in relation to grets for instance, so faster permitting also on the grid side, on the storage side, and not only on the renewver generation side, so that's one element that I believe connects as well, and of course we have also announced further actions in this context with the Plant Brisk package that has also been announced.

Then there is also the element of electrification that as well, as you know, we will be working on an electrification action plan because it is definitely key for bringing in an efficient way, also the benefits of renewables to industry and other consumers, so that's also something that we are looking into.

And then of course in terms of solutions in the clean industry, there there is source an emphasis on financing, simplification of a sit date also targeted some of the challenges that we see are faced on the industry side, but also the deployment of some of the tools that we already have there, for instance in terms of long term contracts PPAs.

And then quite important as well to make the link to the legislation that is already in placed, so also working to make sure that what is already there and attackle some of these aspects is then also implemented more quickly.

Okay, so I'm going to give you two ideas, so write them down because I'm not going to repeat myself.

Number one, you want to do an industrial thing, concentrate on heat below two hundred C.

Okay, that's the easy one.

I don't know why people get gangbusters about trying to decalbanize steel, which is really tough and really expensive, or cement, whereas half of the gas is below two hundred sea and to sea, we'll get a lot of industrial ittoms.

So focus on this.

This is easy, it's winnable.

It's the opien jobs.

Focus on minus two hundred sea for heat and the rest for later.

That's number one, number two, and it's great because at some point you push PPAs, which is a market best solution.

But at the same time we see government who are throwing auctions for solar, which was great fifteen years ago to kick start the market.

But now when the markets stop, you know, reaching maturity, this is a bargain you are, of course, I'm sure the guy from a light sauce you know, is going to throw a tomato at me.

But you know, it's just too easy.

So if you really want to do solar auctions, at least you put four hour flex or for our storage.

That would be a good way.

But don't throw public money after limited value because in Spain, what there is a thirty gigawat of solaw already.

Okay, fine, do an auction for storage, just don't do a naked solar.

I am I fellow producer agreeing with me?

Or am I going to be stabbed in the back in the next twenty minutes?

Please happy to take that.

BEZ is the only thing that we can actually do fast at the moment.

If you want a quick result on the grid on flexibility and affordability, the only thing you can do is, as I said, utilize the grid that we have a bit better and therefore do more BEZ.

So from that perspective, there are far more effective measures.

We all know where cartailmen is well have projects, we know where the problem is where you can have very very targeted solutions.

What we need from an investment perspective, because as I said, the pipelines are there, not just as a number of individuals, I'm sure better less as well.

And the only thing that's missing is really a long term price signal so that we are able to make a reliable investment choice.

And that is something that if you target it correctly.

Connecting with my previous point.

Then that makes more sense now on the CFD and the auctions, we have too many times seen that we have auctions that have certain qualification criteria and that criteria is not really placed in the right way in a sense of Okay, I have a solar project, but maybe the problem that we have, as I was saying before, is not in that particular node.

So you get capacity in a place that doesn't deliver as much as it could do in the short term, as I was saying before, So you have talken storage as well, so you get people to just qualify and put a little bit of storage just to qualify and win, and then you have a lot of people who win the auctions at the prices that they cannot deliver.

So it's not a golden solution.

It could be part of the bigger picture, but they're much better targeted solutions.

And if I would ask something, is really a long term reliable price signal one?

Yes, thank you.

I would like to add because I fully agree with with lessons here, and actually you've said that in your first point here.

We are in need of electrification and flexible electrification and we should focus on the low hugging fruits that we have there and lents I talked about below two hundred degrees, that's a huge part.

I would even go to below five hundred degrees because below five hundred we have already electrical technologies that can deliver and there will be also, I hope, a lot of possibilities to include thermal storage.

So this electification of this industry can be electrified at lower cost and very important, most probably they would become flexible loads, and this can help all the deployment of renew books because I think the problem is not mean.

We have made a huge effort in permitting in the past five years, we have sad deploying renewables, So the problem is not really there.

The problem is somewhere else.

The problem is that now we are facing a wall, which is we need the demand because never forget that all the targets for renewals deployment we have put forward is for the entire economy.

So we're looking at this it doesn't make sense to employ that much renebles if we don't electrify the whole economy.

Those are the targets that for everything, not for the twenty three percent of energy consumption that electify.

We need to go much further than that.

If not, it doesn't make sense.

So I love what you said about going to the low hanging free.

Let's do that.

And this will also help sure the big energy intensive consumers because having this energy there, this flexible energy, will make this system much more efficient.

Looking forward, we will be able to deploy much renewables and will have this flexibility, will allow everybody, even the base one ones, to access stable prices.

So in the length term, that's a solution.

And I would say, besides focusing on these below five hundred degrees, well, in three words, greeds maybe grids, So you said that before, so we really need the greeds to deploy.

It's a non rigod option there.

And besides that, and we were talking about a lot of affordability, and we haven't talked about one thing, which is I think is the single most effective in the short term measure.

It could be done right now in the words political will, which is clean the electricity bills of taxes and levies.

In Spain, for every kill of what our consumed in electricity, the government gets four times the same taxes than the gate for every kill of what hour of gas consumed, and we're told go electric.

I say, yeah, but if I go electric, I pay four times more taxes can stay in gas.

That's Spain about very similar in most of Europe because governments have been used to basically use electricicize them as a text collector for a lot of things.

This doesn't work anymore.

We are competing is not anymore isolated.

We're competing with gas, and we're competing with all countries.

If we want affordability, and it was said in the affordability package, but now we have to make all the countries act on that.

And it is the shortest, most effective single measure that you can do that because all the rest build the grids, deployment, renewables, electrifying, all the It's gonna take time.

It is a future.

It's gonna take time.

I like that, But I can tell you your worst enemy is my cousin.

I've got a cousin.

She called me the other day and she said, oh ah, you're into sodah.

Yeah, I discover.

So what did you do?

I went to the supermarket and I both forced on our panels.

Cost me fifty a piece.

I'm gonna plug them in myden.

I said, have you call your utility or something.

So of course not I'm just gonna plug.

And now she's going to disappear from the grid for six months per year, and the first of October she's going to put them in her garage and that's it.

So that's very interesting, is the revolution from the people from the bottom and from the batteries is the same.

I've invested in batteries.

I've got all warehouses.

You know, can you just put the batteries in the back and you know, we're next to the substation and we're going to do a bit of our flex ourselves because we don't want third party flex.

So the technology is going to create some Every participant is going to become a possumer.

That's a new name.

And there's no big theory.

They just go to the supermarket or you know, they call a guy like me, and you know they'll get the battery on the truck and plug it their warehouse two weeks later.

And so that's very interesting.

Now mix the old system harder to predict, which means that the layer of digital on the top has to be perfect transparent.

So if other regulators you need to pass or so low about data that data are fully shared, fully transparent so that the market participant can make better decisions.

Now let's go to our two consumers.

So far, what you heard?

You like it?

Or can I get a bit of a ramp?

Actually there is one part I disagree, and it was with you because I understand that you were trying to push for the glentrification of it and living still the conversation for later and basically what is happening already.

So on our side, we already decide to take some plant on a full one other percent renewable and actually one of the plants is our cesstyl plant in Bazvasco in Spain, and that is the plant actually producing our magnellis.

It's our product for the strectures of solar projects.

So basically we decided in that plant to use only scrap so only used steel is recycled, and to use one hundred percent renewal electricity.

And then what we found on the other sides was that there was a market.

So there was a market for low carbon steel and it was not on purpose.

But one of our.

First projects was in Portugal, which is my country, and for a client which is an EBA droller and our client which is Gonvai Solar, so the supplier of the trackers.

They decided to use all the steel for this project, which is a forty one mega pick.

All the steel is low carbon steel, so that goes in this root which is recycled let's say, scrap steel and then renewal electricity which has seventy percent lower seal.

So I don't think we should leave this seventy percent for later after the EAT.

I think we should do it as soon as it's a business case.

And nowadays this change for electric furnace with renewed electricity is already feasible.

Some of the government is publicatorisult not here anymore.

What we still need to do.

Later is to replace our blest furnaces with dri when there will not be using anymore, you know, like we invested in Brazil in Passam in a place which stan is doing the steel slabs and an option for Europe is to import slabs from the US or from Brazil.

We still believe, and we are part of the European Organization, still believe that it's possible to do the still making in Europe, and nowadays I think with the defense team is not a matter anymore of costs is also a matter of a security.

We can do still for tanks in three days.

If you have to bring the still from Brazil or from China, it will take some months.

We need to invest in Europe.

I would say, excellent, pivote no more climate security, Well done, Nichse.

I'd say, look, the end goal is absolutely clear.

We need to electrify Thiss I think a very very common objective that the matches everyone in the room, the suppliers and the consumers as well.

I would say that the tools that we've been using so far to get there have not been perfect.

So we have a big part of our strategy is of course carbon pricing, which is working fairly well in the electricity sector with some impacts we have to be care full of in terms of the prices, but in terms of industries that are exposed to global competition, no one is electrifying because of the carbon price, so the incentive structures are not quite there.

If you look at the Innovation Fund in particular, it does tend to discriminate against electrification in favor of other decarbonization solutions.

And then the overarching challenge in terms of boosting electrification is really that the electricity price is still too high, so I think we can come up with innovative solutions also to solve the problem that mister Sufflis mentioned, bundling PPAs and batteries, securing the off take with the consumer in order to create that long term signal, helping our industries as well exist and also electrify the other processes that are not yet electrified, boosting the consumption, reducing the solar catailments, and making sure that both sides of these equations are moving together towards where we both want to get to.

You are not alone.

That's what Rio Tinto is doing in Australia with their solar A eight World battery now.

So I briefly respond to that.

So that was incentivized by a two billion scheme for green aluminum, so they have been able to take on the extra cost that is evolved in that.

The biggest challenge we have is matching the variable supply, as was mentioned at the start, with the baseload consumption.

This will become easier over time as we get more flexibility into the system, as we get storage, as we gt grits.

What we need is a bridging solution to get from where we are today to where we want to get to because in the meantime it's going to be really, really tricky with the prices, and I think this is the main thing that we need to deliver with the Clean Industrial Deal.

Okay, so before we conclude, because we're almost at the end of our conversation and it very fast, So thank you guys.

There's three up stakers you have every time you give a police So number one is called sprinkling.

Everybody screaming, so everybody gets something, but everybody get not a lot, so it's kind of useless, so you sprinkle subsidies.

The second one, I would say is choking.

So okay, fine, I'll give you your subsidies, but I'm gonna put so much condition at touch that at the end of the day nobody can reach the subsidies because it's too complex.

And the last one is what I call the bargain is you know what, I would have done it anyway, but you give me a subsidy, thank you very much.

So these are the three upstackers.

So you need to be smart, and I'm sure you are.

There's so many smart people here in Brussels.

It's time for your last statement.

So who wants to go first?

Please if I have the last for one thing now is please clean the electricity bills.

That's a call for every single state in Europe.

Clean.

It is really worthwhile for the future.

Wow, that was short.

We're pretty much in a very interesting time where you have this conflict of moving fast and delivering things because geopolitics have kind of caught up with us, and at the same time you want to support your internal industry, and that is a very tricky way to deal with it because obviously the supply chain at the moment is global, and that global supply chain is the one that has actually brought us here.

We have sixty seven gigabottes or sixty five gigabots a year because of this.

The measures that we're taking, and I think the direction and everything we're hearing is absolutely where we need to be, and we're very thankful that actually the direction is there.

Implementation is the key difference.

Now we have proven that we can be cheap, we have proven that we're obviously helping with the climate change.

It is secure energy we can deploy fast.

The only thing remaining is really this political push to ensure that we are able to actually deploy and the one thing that's missing is bringing the population together.

And I think communication wise, we can do so much more to ensure that people understand and the perception of people around renewables and solar and storage in particular is where we need it to be, because at the end of the day, it's them voting and whatever plans we might have, whatever ideas we might have, they need to buy into it.

And the direct length of that to the bills, for example, is perhaps one way to show it, but to show what exactly is the impact on them.

We definitely need to do more on comms, because.

The solutions are there.

The only thing we need is to make sure that we remove the obstacles to deliver it.

Could okay, oh wow, thank you, Jose.

On our side, basically, I see a very positive cycle because we see the market asking us low carbon steel, and the only way to have the low carbon steal is to have renewable energy.

So we see indeed the positive cycle here that we have renewable energy.

We did we can already reduce our CEO to footprint by sixty seventy percent, and then we supply these to the projects and then we really create us within European supply chain, a much less SEO to footprint on the different projects.

I think this is also something that I mean, we are doing ourselves as oars loomto outside of Europe and we are investing.

We are building right now over for under megawats in Brazil.

We are have invested over six hundred mega in India.

Here in Europe we have not done that because we have seen quite a lot of good players doing it and the way we cooperate with them is to do the PPA.

So we are eager.

I mean, we have quite a lot of consumption in the main markets where we are present, and we want the developers to go for the projects and we are there to go for the PPA.

Thank you, Nick finer words.

I'm going to go down a path you may be one expecting.

But about four months ago, NATO put out a list of twelve critical raw materials crucial for the defense sector and for which Europe has a supply risk.

Aluminium was on that list.

It was the material with the most different uses across military applications.

Steel of course absolutely indispensable, and it's also both of these materials as well as many others things that we need obviously for the green transition as well, so you need it in the solar industry, you need it for electricity grids.

One of my favorite statistics is there's actually more aluminium in a lithium im battery than lithium.

So it's very clear.

We've lost fifty percent of our aluminium production in Europe over the past few years.

It's very clear that we need to support our industries.

So what I would say, the message that I want to leave with you here today is let's do this in a forward looking manner that helps all of you guys, make sure your investments, that reduces the level of solar catailments, that creates a business case as well for the storage investments that we absolutely need in our system.

And if we can get all of these things pulling together, then I'm very confident and we can get through all of the the challenges to a very sunny, Soulo future.

My personal message to Paula, Paula, always remember the Onion's Future Act.

In the fifties, two very good lobbyists in America decided that the free market was not good enough and they should forbid any futures market.

Everything should be spot and so it was passed bas the Senate because they were very good lobbyists, and then they went away and it's still on the book.

So you can trade garlic, you can trade potatoes, but if you trade onions, you end up in jail.

Because it's the same law as for al capone.

That tells you that very good lobbying would seem smart on the point can lenk to very absurd conclusion.

Let people do business.

So that was my last world.

What's your last please?

From my side?

My one ki ask would be really too in addressing all these challenges that we are mentioning to join forces across.

I don't think we are that far away.

We are coming from very similar angles and then the same objectives and the same challenges.

So bring the industry to hold those Parliament Commission member states, and then we have some very good examples as to remember what we did with the solar chart or with the wind child or what is now announced with this strip Tite contract with means also this type of joining efforts.

And then I would add an a half kiosk to also use the existing legislation to the maximum.

So let's already also speed up implementation of what is already there.

And well, we've seen in the room as well that we are all strongly committed to build our own energy future in Europe, clean, secure and competitive.

And we've all seen that the solar could be one of the biggest energy advantages of Europe.

So let's control it, let's own it, let's lead it globally, and let's flex it.

The future is not just solar, it's solar and storage and AI.

Thank you, thank you so much, Lise, thank the Panela Solar about Europe.

Thank you very much.

Thank you for listening to Redefining Energy.

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