Welcome to This Organized Life.

If you're a mom, wife, or coffee lover seeking advice on how to reduce clutter and reclaim time, look no further than your host, Laurie Hellau, founder Simply Be Organized and author of hot Mess, a practical guide to getting organized.

For a lot of people, clutter is their dirty little secret, but it doesn't have to be.

Each week, we will share practical tips, chat with experts, and provide strategies on how.

To keep you organized.

I hope that.

By sharing our stories you feel a little less alone and more empowered to tackle the areas that are holding you back.

So let's get started.

And Hi everybody, and welcome to you today's episode of This Organized Life.

I'm your host, Lori Palau, so happy that you're here joining us.

If you're listening live, we are in the throes of summer in June, and I could not be more excited.

And I am extra excited because I'm joined by an awesome co host today.

If you're alone, long time listener, you are no stranger to my friend and fellow organizing colleague, Janelle Azar.

She is the founder of a Meaningful Space, and she is also a podcast host herself, the organizing entrepreneur, organized entrepreneur.

I'm screwing it up.

I'm gonna let her drop all the things, but we're I invite you, Janelle to come on today to talk about some of the listener questions.

I know we did it a while ago with Martha Carol Stewart and then we had Lisa Eckerleon and I asked Janelle to come on and join me in this kind of ask me anything series that we were doing.

And just a little disclaimer for anybody that's watching on YouTube.

Our audio should be great, but we're having some little technical buffering difficulties.

So if it gets like want you to watch, just listen because the audio is going to be great.

But we did not want to delay getting this out to you guys.

So without further ado, let me welcome my dear friend Janelle back to the show.

Thanks Laurie, it's so good to be back.

It's so good to have you here.

Janelle and I.

Janelle used to do mentoring with me, and then she like graduated and no longer needs me, which is a great thing to have happened.

But I miss her.

I missed talking and seeing you on a recurring basis so selfishly this is fun for me.

Oh absolutely, It's definitely great to be back together and to see you and to catch up.

And I can't wait to dive into all these questions that you have collected and that I've collected, and we're gonna have some great conversation around this.

Yes we are.

And it's always fascinating.

I love listening and reading listener questions because there are things that we just take for granted oftentimes as professional organizers, right, things that we just do on autopilot, or were like people don't really need to know that, or people don't really care about that, And it never ceases to surprise me some of the great questions that people ask and I did not in the spirit of transparency, I did not prepare Janelle in advance.

And Janelle's an enneagram one and she likes to have all of her eyes dotted and teas crossed, and she's very prepared, which is a great quality as a professional organizer.

But I'm purposely pushing her outside of her comfort one because I know that she's a professional and she is going to know how to answer these questions, and I didn't want her to be like scripted, so that was intentional.

Yes, I knew you were doing that on purpose, and even though I was up a little bit last night thinking, oh my gosh, what are you going to ask me?

It's okay.

I'm rolling with it.

I'm learning to step outside in my comfort one because that's where we grow, right.

Yes, yes, So I'm going to kick it off by asking a couple of the questions, and then I'll turn it over to you and let you ask some of the questions that came from your listener audience.

Okay, I am going to start with this one.

It says, how can I get my spouse or partner on board with decluttering?

It feels like I am always doing it alone.

This is a great question, and guess what, it's one of the questions that I had.

Get that.

Yes, yeah, one.

People, we hear this all the time.

Yep, yep, So obviously you're not alone.

This is a struggle.

And I will say that I always find myself in the middle when I work with clients because it's all about finding common ground, and you have to find things that you can agree upon or that you're willing to negotiate a little bit.

So I think that's one of the first important steps figuring out the why and the how, what's the shared values that you have, not necessarily the stuff, focusing on the stuff so much, but why are you doing this?

How do you want to go about doing it?

And then what are the things that are non negotiables for you?

Let's talk about maybe you don't want to give something away, maybe you're really sentimental about certain things and that's your non negotiable, or maybe there's just something that you don't feel like decluttering right now.

So talking about those non negotiables I think is really key as well, and sometimes having that conversation outside of the actual organization itself, because sometimes when you're in the thick of it, it can get a little bit heated.

So maybe removing yourself from that situation a little bit, and I would even say this is the best part.

This is where you can bring in a neutral third party like myself, like LORI, professional organizer.

We've dealt with this so many countless times where we're trying to find common ground for people.

And the truth is too that so many people different organizing styles, So finding a way to meld or mesh those things together so they work for both people.

That can be challenging, but it can be done.

Yeah, I agree, And if I could, I echo everything you're saying, and if I could add another just piggyback on that.

I always like to approach it from how does this stuff this situation?

How does it make you feel?

And I have this conversation actually with a friend of mine in real life that goes through this.

We have this conversation as we go for walks about this, and I'm going to give like a very kind of tough love Enneagram eight answer.

And for a lot of people, I will say, do you have a clutter issue or is it a relationship issue?

Because if you are able to communicate why this is stressing you out, like you said, like the why behind it, this is how it makes me feel, I feel anxious or I feel underappreciated, if you know I'm doing it, and then you come in and undo everything I did, if you are able to articulate that and then set some boundaries of this is where our common ground is, and then this is where you can have your organizing style and I'll have mine.

If you guys can't come to a agreement in those areas, then the issue isn't really your clutter.

The issue is your communication or the issue is relational, and I think that is something that we need to take a good hard look in the mirror.

And sometimes the clutter gets the band wrap and it's really just the byproduct of something else that's going on.

Absolutely, I think that is so huge.

The communication piece of it is so important when you were talking about editing or decluttering, and then also to pay back off of that the system that you're setting up, the communication is so important to communicate also the why and the how behind that to either your spouse or your partner or whoever else is living in the home, even your kids, because that's another place where things often break down is when you create the system and then you don't talk about the system, and the communication key is really important there.

And I want to bring up the second point because this was a two parter question.

Yeah please, and it goes in line with it.

And so this person was asking me, you know what, if you can't decide or come to an agreement on organizing products that will work in a particular space.

So one person might think this works and the other person might think this is but I think this is better and then they end up doing nothing because they cannot agree on anything.

So I think that's also sometimes part of the problem.

But I go back to always editing first.

That's left over.

Oh gosh, absolutely.

I just had a conversation with a client literally the other day where she wanted to bring in some products, and I said, before we bring in one single product, we need to edit first.

And I know people don't like to hear that, but that's really that's just like my rule of thumb, because we don't want to waste money, we don't want to waste time.

We want to make sure we're maximizing your space.

So we're doing that hard stuff first, which I know requires that level of decision fatigue that people want to kick the can down the road, but that really is step number one.

Absolutely, And I will say too, you probably get this all the time as well, when I walk into a home and somebody's hired me or we're doing a console and there's always that pile of bins and baskets that people have bought to get organized, and then they're just sitting there collecting dust or also contributing to the clutter.

Yes, absolutely absolutely, and that's what we don't want to waste We don't want to waste money and resources on products that just end up as clotter.

So let's be strategic.

People, be strategic.

Okay, do you have a do you have a question or do you want me to you have Do you have another question that you want to throw out?

Go for it.

I would also, oh, you know what, I want to add really quick to that decision about productor or deciding on a product between two people.

Sometimes doing a product trial run is really helpful if you are past that point of decluttering and editing, really trying things out, because it's so easy to return things if they don't work.

So I always suggest that's one way you can go.

The other thing, too, is I always talk about people like what is important to you when it comes to product or organizing things.

Is it going to be the functionality, is it going to be the aesthetic, Is it going to be your budget.

There's a lot of factors that come into choosing product for a space, so I figured I would just add that in.

Yeah, I literally shameless plug for our clutter clinics.

I just talked.

I did a whole like segment on that when we were talking about I just did a clutter clinic kitchens and I was talking all about the how to choose the right product for your space.

Yeah.

Interesting, Okay, this one I am absolutely gonna lob to you because it's about kids organizing.

And even though I'm a mom with grown ish kids, Janelle has a organizing your kid's course, so this is definitely her area.

Question.

Do you have any hacks for managing clutter when you have little kids who are constantly bringing in stuff?

Oh my goodness, there are so many This is like such a rabbit hole to dive down.

I know.

Okay, So we're just gonna give a couple of different.

Highlights over highlights We're gonna highlight.

So first of all, I'm gonna say, where is this clutter coming from?

How is it coming into your home?

So that's number one, because there's so many different ways between school and school projects and birthday parties and grandparents, there's always a way that it's coming into your home.

So first of all, I just stop and evaluate where it's coming from, who's helping you bring these things into your home?

And secondly, I always like to take stock of what these things are.

Are they things that are very one use type of things.

Are they party favors, are they things that are going to break really easily?

So what type of items are constantly coming into the home, because those are the things that we can easily get rid of.

We can set a parameter around that and say, oh, you know what, we're going to have this for a week, or we're going to have this for two weeks, and then we're going to move on and either donate it or it's probably going to be broken by then.

Maybe.

So there's a couple of different ways that you can frame that.

But it's also important to again communicate what you're talking about.

And this is what I love about working with kids because I've worked with kids as young as four years old, and it's using some different language, but it's also about communicating the why about why we're doing this, making your room easier to clean, making things easier to find, having friends over to play, really kind of giving them the what's in it for me?

And talking about that with kids.

And I will tell you one of the other things that I find when working with kids is that a lot of times parents underestimate their ability to let go.

So don't be afraid to put some parameters around those things, and some routines also around letting things go because kids can definitely be a little bit more resilient about letting go than you think they can.

I love it.

I think that's great.

Okay, So next question, how do you balance running a business and managing your home without feeling like something is always falling through the cracks?

Ooh, you picked a good one, because because this is what we talk about on my podcast all the time.

So my podcasts, like Laurie mentioned earlier, Organizing the Entrepreneur and I talk with different women business owners from all walks of life.

Some have kids, some don't have kids, and we really talk about different strategies around all the things that come from running a business and also managing your household.

And we've come up with some really great strategies and a lot of times our conversation always comes back to time management.

And that's one of the things that we really focus on, is how are you managing your time?

What does that look like?

What tools are you using that are helpful or hurtful?

And I love the different solutions that people have come up with, and there's some really good ones and one of the ones that I have loved the most is one of the entrepreneurs.

She actually goes through and she's old school paper, so she'll write things down at the end of the night so she can unclutter her mind and have a plan for the next day and really prioritize what's important.

So picking and that's the other thing.

You can't prioritize everything.

There's got to be some highlights one, two, three for the day, for the week, and really highlighting those things.

But I think it comes back to a lot of the time management and also are you overscheduling yourself because we fall into a trap.

I fall into it too all the time.

I overschedule myself with clients and then things get dropped at home.

So the balance, it's an illusion.

It's really hard to find a balance.

I say that all the time, but really looking at where you're spending your time, I feel like it comes back to that.

So I know, if I'm going to have a busy week in client homes, there are things that are going to be dropped on the other side of managing my home and that's okay.

So I really look ahead and manage my following week and make sure that maybe I'm not as booked and busy the following week so I can catch up on some things in the home.

Yeah, I think again it is.

It's a little bit of a tug of war at times where sometimes you're going leaning a little bit more one way, and then you're going to lean in a little bit more the other way.

But I think it's also just having a realistic expectation that not everything is going to get done all at once all the time.

And delegating.

I think that's another thing.

Also, some of the smaller tasks of things that maybe you can do, but it might not be the best use of your time and if your time efforts talents are better suited somewhere else.

Outsourcing or delegating, either on the personal side or the professional side, I think is also something that I've instituted.

That's a great one.

Love that.

Yes, do you have any on your side?

Yeah?

Yeah, So I had someone reach out and they said they're struggling to manage their calendar and to do list, So this kind of falls in line a little bit, and they're looking for non tech suggestions.

Oh yeah, which I think is there's a lot more people, I think that are really leaning towards the non tech versus having everything digital.

And so that's the question.

I like, I'm a visual person, and so I for me, I like to have different types of calendars, and I have multi calendars, Like I have one master calendar where all the things are, but then I have a whiteboard calendar in my office that I can look at on a bird's eye view of Oh okay, I don't have every little minutia detail, but like I have big things like a podcast recording a client, So I'm only looking at the things that are relevant for me in that area.

And then I also have a similar setup in our kitchen kind of command center area, and I do the same thing, but I do it more with our personal things.

So if we have plans for the weekend or it's but he's birthday, so I'll give almost like the highlight reel of things that I that I deal with there in that space and the work stuff in the workspace.

And that for me has been helpful for me to see those important things without having to open up my phone where I have all the things.

That's how I work it in my life.

I love that.

I think that's very helpful.

I love a whiteboard and a lot of times I'll even do like post it notes on the whiteboard so I can move things around sometimes or have a little bit more of a detail on the whiteboard.

And then for me, I'm also really big on I have a spiral notebook where I keep a running to do list and date it.

So like today, I'll have a list of some things, and I may have not gotten to everything from yesterday or last week or even last month, but I can go back and I can see what's still on the list, what haven't I got to yet, And it's all in one spot.

Though, And I think that's really important to emphasize because a lot of times when I go into people's homes, what I see is they've got tons of planners, tons of to do lists, and things are all spread around and they're losing things.

And so I would highly suggest just have one location if you can, if you're going to have a running to do list.

Yeah, absolutely, And again for me, I always say, I am I'm all about the ease of retrieval and how quickly can I find what I'm looking for, And so I will continue to embrace the flexibility that comes with digital organizing.

But I do understand that there's something to be said for writing things down your brain activity to be able to comprehend it.

I do think, especially in the same age, when we're sharing information with other people and we have multiple things, maybe incorporate it in some way, shape or form and then have something else supporting it, because I don't always think it is the most when you have pen and paper, that it's always the most user friendly when it comes to retrieval and sharing information with other people.

I agree with that one hundred percent.

And maybe we can chat about that in just a minute, because it kind of ties in with another question.

Oh oh, okay.

I had somebody reach out and say they were struggling with paper piles.

So we're on the paper tree here, and I feel like paper, no matter what, no matter how digital we get, paper's always going to be there.

We're always going to have issues with paper.

And for me, I'm pretty ruthless in my own home when it comes to paper, Like I literally receive no mail, no credit card offers, no like maybe a couple advertisements here and there, but I'm really ruthless with what comes in to my house when it comes to paper.

Not everybody's like that.

I get that but for me, it's really helped manage.

Like I literally have one filebox that I keep of actual hard copy paperwork, And for me, I narrowed down the categories like what do I really want to keep and reference because honestly that's the biggest thing.

We only reference ten percent if that of what we file.

Oh my gosh, absolutely, wait, I gotta have to I'm gonna interrupt you for a second because I was just having a conversation with Josh about so I was, let me just give the back quick backstory.

So I was in the Hamptons and I had my laptop with me and I needed to print something and I don't have a printer up there.

And I said to Josh because he has friends that live up there and they lived up there during COVID whatever, so that was like more of a primary residence for them.

So I said, oh, does Sarah buy any chance have a printer because I need to print this one thing?

Or I go, is Sarah home, I need to print this?

He goes, she does have a printer, but she lived at the house in the Hamptons like during COVID like that, and he's and he goes, now, I know we're like overgeneralizing stereotypy.

He goes, she's a millennial.

They don't have printers, they don't print stuff.

And I because I'm a jed X and I print a lot of things.

Now I'm not I will print and then recycle, print and recycle, but I print even like down to these questions like I print, and I was like, wait, is that a thing to people not print things?

One hundred percent?

I actually had the same conversation with my sister in law last week because she had to return something to Amazon through ups and it required her to print the label, and she says, I don't have a printer, and I'm like what Wait.

Yeah, I'm baffled by that as well.

But it is.

It's a thing, like people just don't have them anymore.

Okay, So I guess in some ways that's good because that should hopefully then reduce for jets narrations to come the paper clutter.

But I'm assuming this question came from somebody that's a gen X or maybe even a boomer.

I don't know, because paper clutter is a thing.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm in the midst of a big project right now.

That's all very much paper back from the eighties and the nineties.

Yes, it's very in depth.

We've been going through so much and just shred shread.

So I always like to tell people there's a couple of things when it comes to paper piles.

Again, I go back to evaluate where it's coming from, where, how's it coming into the home.

Are there things that you can opt in for digital statements?

Are there things that you can opt out of that you're getting through your mail to lessen what's coming in the door.

And when it comes to the actual sorting process, I always tell people use broad categories like start and do a first go through a first pass.

Is it going to be keep?

Is it and file?

Is it going to be shred?

Is it going to be tossed?

Just use those three broad categories to get started and listen, it's not going to happen overnight if you have paper everywhere, so you're going to have to take a little time getting through it if that's the case.

But you can always do a second pass and really go through the things that you're going to file and do the filing at that point, or the categorization of what's left over, because trying to do that all at once it's very time consuming and it's easy to get distracted, so it's important to eliminate as many distractions as possible.

I agree, And I think that's really great from the tactical perspective, and I'm just going to approach it a little bit from the psychological perspective, and I really believe, and I'm actually going to be doing a clutter clinic on paper coming up, and I think it's September.

Guys, that paper clutter, more often than not, is a symptom of emotional clutter, and it usually stems not from necessarily sentimental, but it stems from guilt and fear, and it is that indecision of I don't know what to do or what if I need this again, And so people will hold onto things and go talking about that linking in that generational component to it.

My older clients who grew up in an era where you could only get your paper statements, and that's what you did, and if you had to dispute something, that is how it's done.

I look at my mother in law who still like balances a checkbook, and you know, my gen Z daughter doesn't even own a checkbook.

So like you look at how different generations handle materials and paper was a really big thing for certain generations.

And I see it now as somebody who's mid fifties gen X.

I see a lot of people that are straddling both where they had all their old statements and W two's and things that they held onto because of fear I might get audited and how long do I need to hold onto this?

And what if I get rid of it?

So all of those emotional decisions keep you from making the progress.

And so if you can identify that, I think identifying that is the first thing.

And once you get and I'm going to say permission for lack of a better word, but if you have permission that it's okay to let things go, then that oftentimes will open the floodgates for you to go, Okay, great, now that I know that it's okay for me to get rid of it, then it's open the shred gates and you can go ahead and do it.

And then the other thing is just making the time.

It's those death by a thousand cuts.

And I was having this conversation the other day with Logan about even answering emails, and I know that this is we're talking about paper stuff.

But I have this rule of thumb in life when it comes to organizing, and it's always if you can do it in under two minutes.

It's called it the two minute rule.

If you can do it in under two minutes, don't procrastinate.

That goes for putting the dish and the dishwasher, putting your clothes in the hamper, making your bed, opening the mail.

So if you can do something, and Logan was talking about it with email, and you know, I said, if you can, if you get an email and you can respond to it really quickly, then do it.

If it requires a longer thing, then you can prioritize it.

But if you use that kind of general rule of thumb of can I do this quickly, that does that eliminates the mail.

If it's saying your paper clutter is a mail issue from bottlenecking because you're just working through it, so it never, even like you said, gets in the door in the first place to accumulate.

Yeah, that's and that's one of the organizing rules that I live by as well.

Don't put it down, put it away.

I'm such a stickler on that, especially in my own home, and I love the two minute theory and the thought process behind that the other thing that I want to add when it comes to paper piles.

I've also really started to dive into the digital organization side of things with my business and also personally too, and last year I became a certified expert with Trustworthy, which is a company that offers like digitizing and organizing documents and it's all in one secure space.

And so for me, digitizing things has been very helpful in the fact that I can share these things with people that need to see them.

So, for example, if you're having an issue with either like maybe a division of labor, or people in your home not knowing where to find things or where to go, or if there's things that are supposed to renew like passports or licenses or things like that and the balls getting dropped on those things.

Having those digits tied with kind of reminders and also access for people that all the people that are involved in these documents has been so helpful.

It relieves another level of stress because you're able to really see these things in a different light and to be able to share with my husband, for example, he has a license that's expiring in like a month, so he knows.

Now he knows because he's getting constant reminders that it's coming up.

I don't have to be the one that's bearing that burden of Okay, I got this in the mail, and you need to take care of this.

So I love that I've taken that off my plate.

Absolutely.

Anytime you can remove yourself from being the bottleneck of something is so freeing and I just I love that, and I love that there are tools out there that can help with that.

So that's awesome.

Okay, this is a really I like this question a lot.

How do I stay motivated to keep things organized when I don't see immediate results?

Oh that is a great one.

Ooh my goodness, immediate results.

And it's hard because I always feel like organizing is one of those things where it tends to look worse before it looks better.

Totally, absolutely.

So I think this kind of goes back to when you're talking about, like in the enneagram, like what's your motivation?

And I always tell people too, like making sure you understand your why and knowing why you're going about doing this, because that will help sustain you through the organizing process because there are really tough moments and I think that's also speaks too when you're taking on a really big project.

For me as an enneagram one, it's important because I'm a perfectionist that I see the big picture, but I don't take care of the big picture all at once.

I've I've really got to break it down into something manageable.

So if I'm going to do a kitchen and I only have a certain amount of time, I'm going to take it section by section, because what I want to do at the end of the day, for myself personally or for my clients, is I want to try and leave the section that I'm working in, or the space that i'm working in and better shape than I found it.

That's really important because not only does it help with having a clean space, having a little bit of clarity, but it also helps you see some results.

So I would say definitely breaking it down into chunks of it and also figuring out what's your why, maybe post it somewhere as you're working so you can constantly remind yourself.

Those visual cues are really important.

I love it.

Yeah, And just to add to that a couple things is I I'm a big fan again of pictures inspiration pictures or even writing down like what is my goal with this space and coming back to that, because it can be really deflating.

And I always make the analogy of losing weight or exercise and organizing, where sometimes you could be like I've been going to the gym every day or five times a week and watching what I eat and I'm not seeing results, and that's really deflating.

But when you can take a step back and realize a it's a process, and you're cluttered and accumulate overnight, it's unrealistic to think it's just gonna go away when again, we're all I don't want to say victims, but we all watch HGTV and all these other things where things are wrapped up in this night neat bo in twenty minutes, and that's just not real life unfortunately.

So the first thing is just give yourself some grace and recognize that.

Second thing is take some before pictures, and I guarantee you you are making progress.

It might not be as quick as you want, it might not be as transformational as in your mind you're picturing it, but I guarantee you the fact remains is if you are putting in the work, if you are not just shuffling papers around and moving your clutter from once about or another.

But if you are truly making decisions of editing, deleting, donating, whatever, you are making progress.

And so take those little pictures and just again come back to for that motivation, come back to I want to be able to park my car in the garage.

I want to be able to have an open play s base for my kids to play.

Fill in what you want, and then when you get frustrated because you feel like you're not making progress, just go, Okay, this is what I'm working towards.

This is what I'm working towards.

And it's that reminder.

OO love that.

That is fantastic, And I love the before and after photos because those are just so helpful.

Your right to go back to what that looks like.

I always do before photos on consultations and a lot of times if we're going through the process, just to update people to be like, this is where we're coming from and this is where we're at now throughout the process, especially if you really struggle with clutter or you're struggling to focus, I feel like that can bring you back to those realistic expectations and also that progress so love that.

Yeah.

Okay, so you mentioned the anagram and we have an anagram question.

Okay, so it's about anagram twos and you have a two wings, so maybe you'll.

Be a little bit a little bit, I feel like I flip flap between a nine and a two?

Do you I see?

I feel like you for my person.

Obviously I can't speak for you, but I feel like you.

Okay.

I'm a two on the anagram and I always put others first.

How can I create better boundaries with my time and energy?

That is a good one.

Twos are helpers, right, yeap, So they always feel like they have to be supportive of other people and accepting of others.

So some strategies, right, So let's I think one of the big ones is practicing saying no or saying not now and really reminding yourself that you also can come first, because I think that's a big thing with the helper And You're right, I do definitely have a two wing with me and I'm really good at saying yes a lot at the time, so I know that can be a struggle for me, and I think it goes back to again prioritizing prioritizing picking three things, or maybe again, like you said earlier, delegating out some tasks to other people because you don't have to do it all.

Yes, absolutely, I'm just going to add a couple of nerdy enneagram to like I loves to dive a little bit deeper.

One of the false narrative of the two is that their worth in this world is tied to helping other people.

So it is natural for them to feel like I need to say yes because otherwise what good am I?

What is my value?

Whether they are realizing this on a conscious level or it's a subconscious level, they feel that is the value that they bring in the world, which we know is not true.

But that's the false that's the little inner voice that is chirping in the ear of the two and trying to counteract that is hard.

Let's just own it, right.

It's not going to be easy.

So like you say, just say no, which of course that's what we should practice.

Say no, But that is really hard.

It's like asking me, as an anagrammate to hold my tongue like it is really that is so counterintuitive to me.

So for the anagram to to set a boundary to put their own mental well being, their own time priorities.

Space is foreign.

It feels uncomfortable, and so first of all, recognize that, and then I challenge with all of the innegram types, but especially the like the ones who lean into feeling.

Is this fact or is it feeling?

And I have this conversation with Logan a lot as she's an anagram four, so different but still in that feeling triad, and I know that her feelings are valid, they are her feelings, but that doesn't make them true.

And so it is that reminder of being For the anagram too, who's the center that they use the least?

Is productive thinking, so they think, but it's productive thinking, and so really challenging when you're an anagram too and you are feeling that poll that I know I'm over extending myself, I know I really don't want to do this, or I know this, but I'm feeling I'm going back.

I'm challenging you to use that other centers because you're going to intuitively go how do I feel and what am I going to do about it?

And I want you to lean into thinking, think about is this wise?

Is this true?

Is this really the best use of my time and intentionally, I don't want to say forcing yourself, but really being intentional about leaning into that center that you don't really gravitate to will help you to make decisions that are probably ultimately going to be healthier for you when it comes to setting boundaries.

Yeah, I'm curious what your thoughts are just as I'm thinking about that, because too is very present focused?

Is that correct?

So is there any value in kind of rethinking as someone who's present focused.

Is there any way that you can shift that focus and incorporate that into a solution as well?

Or is that just too difficult for a two?

No?

I think it is.

I think they're all different kind of pieces of the puzzle that all play together, right when you look at where people get stuck.

I think one of the really healthy, great things about twos is that they are very present focused and they're thinking about how is this situation going to impact me now, as opposed to some other types that are like myself, who's always thinking about the future and I'm so future, I'm like so far ahead, I'm like three steps ahead that I'm not always taking time to be present and enjoy what's happening right now and all of those things.

And so maybe you know for the two because they are just thinking about now, thinking about how is this decision going to impact me later?

What is the repercussion of me if I am going to drop what I'm doing to go help X, Y and Z or not set that boundary, what is going to be the consequence down the road.

So I think it is using thinking center to focus in on that thinking center to look at all the different pieces, because again they're focused in on what's right in front of them.

I love that answer a lot too, because as a one, I'm also present focused.

Yes, yes, that might have been.

A little bit of a selfish question.

That's yeah, no, And again I don't like to well, I love to nerd out about it.

But there are so many different nuances within the enneagram where you can look at the past, present, future focused, You can look at the different triads that are dominant or the stances that you use the least, and depending on the situation, I might lean into one of those.

They all ultimately work together.

But focusing in on whatever you know specific area is going to give you that light bulb moment is where I think is helpful, which is why I think the anagram is just a great tool in general.

I agree.

I love it so much.

And just a side note, I worked with an aneagram sixth last week and they're just I'm sorry, no an enneagram seven.

I worked with an anagram seven last week and it was just so fun because they're so excited.

They're like ready to get going.

They can't wait for the project to start.

They're like, let's it's just fun to bring in the aneagram and talk about it with people who are getting organized, because I think it's just such a helpful tool.

So I love that you brought that up.

Yes, And it's also great because as much as organizing is a personal thing to our comment earlier, like the original one, we don't want to feel like we're alone.

And when there are certain themes that tend to show up in certain anagram types, it is nice to know that you're not the only one that's going through this, or you're not the only one that sees things this way or that struggles with this one particular area.

And here's some strategies that we can apply that may work for you.

Because we've seen success with other people that have similar personality traits and so I think it's nice to know that you are in good company and that there are solutions and answers to help you where you need it.

Do you have any other questions?

I feel like we have room for one more question.

Let's see.

No, I think those were the ones that I really wanted to focus on.

Okay, all right, this one is all right, this is actually a top This one's for us so and I'm reading it right now and I'm like, oh, I have to think about an answer.

What is one thing that you let go of in your own home that has made a big difference?

So I love this.

Guess what, Laurie, I'm prepared for this.

Question are because I'm not.

I'm like totally not prepared.

So in fact, I just did a blog post or an Instagram post.

I can't remember about the five things that I've let go for my home, okay, and haven't looked back.

And I think part of it is because I've just seen it in so many other people's homes.

So there's a couple of things.

So one thing, CD's and DVDs gone.

Oh I just don't have those.

I know it's it might be funny, right, but I am telling you the amount of those things that I find in people's homes.

It's just it's still a technology that's around, and it's around mostly collecting dust.

So that's one of the things that I've definitely let go of in my own home.

And well, it might not make a huge impact.

I mean it did.

We were cleaning out our basement earlier this year, during I think January or February, and it's so funny because we found a huge box of old CD cases and a lot of them were empty or broken, and there was literally one CD that my husband cannot get rid of.

He will not let it go.

What was it?

To know what it was?

It's like, he's such a huge Fiel Collins fan.

He loves Genesis and it was like the greatest hit CD.

And I don't know how he's going to play it?

Well, that was my next question.

Where's he gonna play it?

Do you guys have a CD player?

We I think he can play it maybe on his PlayStation, is what he was telling me.

But the funny thing is that it doesn't have a home.

There's literally no place for it now.

So it lived on our kitchen counter for a month and a half and I'm like, I'm done.

I'm done.

So I finally just put it in a bin of his things.

He'll probably never go back to it.

He'll never listen to it, he'll never look at it.

But it's it's actually a pretty funny story.

Oh my gosh, that is hysterical.

Oh my gosh.

I'm trying to think of one thing.

Oh my gosh, that's made a big difference.

I will say the other thing too, So one of the others.

So while you're thinking, yes, one of the other things that I let go of because it was a personal choice and it may not make a big different space wise, but mental load.

I ditched my iron and my ironing board.

Done.

Okay, Can I tell you a true story about the ironing board?

So I and it's my mother in law and she never listens to the show, so it's totally safe to say this.

So she's old school Puerto Rican mother in law, very judgy, ironed everything, all the things I don't iron at all.

Josh hid our iron.

This was years ago, Like, I have an iron and ironing board, and he hit it.

I didn't even know he hit it.

And then I was in the basement one day putting something away in one of the kid's memory bins, and I stumbled across the iron that he hid, and I was like, what's the iron doing down here?

And he's oh, I hit that like two years ago to see even notice.

So it was a test and you failed, Like I couldn't kill us.

I have a steamer because if I need to do stuff, I have.

A steamer, exactly exactly.

It just makes me feel that I'm not going to do that, like I do not enjoy that, and so so I don't feel any guilt about that whatsoever gone out of my And that's the way I feel about a lot of things.

I am not sentimentally attached to things, not that I feel a lot of sentimentality towards an iron or an ironing board.

And I don't think most people do.

I think for me, because I do.

I definitely want to answer the question.

I don't feel like there's a physical thing of one big thing because I'm always doing lots of little things right, so it's an ongoing thing for me.

So I can't think of one big physical category that I've gotten rid of.

But I can't say that when it comes to like tasks and things on my plate, like in terms of like calendar clutter outsourcing.

There are certain things that I have let go and given that up to other people, and that has just been freeing.

So whether that is the landscaping, saying I'm going to I'll do my pots and whatnot, but I'm not out there doing major long cleanups.

Or.

I'm trying to think of something else.

I've had a cleaning person who I love that's been with me for years so that I don't I can and I will if I need to, But just delegating that and taking that off my plate has given me time.

So I think for me, it's been letting go of the control of all of the tasks in the house that make the house run and allowing other people to do that, and that to me was freeing when I made that decision.

Yeah, I think that choosing to outsource things that you no longer want to do yourself, I think that's huge.

That comes back to time management.

What do you really want to invest your time in because we only get so much of that a day and a week, and really prioritizing what it is that you want to spend that time on.

Yeah, absolutely, you know, this has been so much fun I love these questions.

I love hearing your answers.

It's been awesome.

Tell everybody where they can find you, listen to you all the things.

Yeah, so you can find me.

I'm actually based in the metro Detroit area, So if you're looking for a home organizer, you can find me at www.

Dot a meaningfulspace dot com.

You can find me.

I mostly hang out on Instagram or Facebook, so that's at a meaningful Space.

And if you're an entrepreneur or you're interested in hearing about how women business owners balance or juggle life and business and all the things that are organized or not organized, you can listen to Organizing the Entrepreneur wherever.

You can download podcasts.

We have I think thirteen episodes now, so really excited about that.

And the last thing that I'll mention is that if you are struggling with kid clutter, I do have a great freebe download that you can access.

It's about tips to get started when you're organizing with your kids, and I think we could probably link it in the notes.

Absolutely absolutely awesome.

Thank you again so much, And if this is your first time tuning in, welcome, Thank you so much for being here.

Make sure that you tune in next week because I have a big announcement.

It's going to be a big bah, so tune in if you don't want to miss that.

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Until then, I'm lrid blow peace out.

Thanks for tuning in.

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