Welcome, freedom Loving People.

This is a Restricted Handling podcast.

I am one of your co-host Ryan Fut, army veteran covering gun pilot, former CIA officer.

I'm joined with a dear friend, longtime CIA Officer, senior Intelligence Service, multi chief of Station in some of the tougher places when it comes to the front lines for US National Security, Europe Eurasia experts.

34 years in the belly of the Beast between Army, state Department and CIA Glenn Korn.

Hey Ryan.

Nice to see you.

Hello everybody.

Thank you for the introduction and as, as we need to say, the opinions shared here are our own and we are no longer part of the government.

This is opinions from Two former.

Although we do pay our taxes, we wanna stress that.

That is true.

That's true, especially me in California.

We're part of the no comment.

We're part of the dream.

Okay, so we got a lot going on.

We are hours away from Trump and Putin meeting US military installation in Anchorage, Alaska.

This could, could have tremendous significance, and the reason we're talking is what impact is it gonna have and get insights from somebody who knows like you.

So, Glenn, as we kick off, how would you set the stage for, for what's coming here?

How do I set the stage?

Obviously everybody is watching.

This is a kinda high stakes meeting, although it may not be as high stakes as it's kind of being billed because I understand the president and, uh, the White House are saying that this is just an opportunity for the president to hear for himself and engaged directly with, uh, Vladimir Putin on the issue of ending the war in Ukraine.

I think that, you know, from what I'm reading in the media, this is all kinda open source, is that.

There's not a lot of high expectations that there're gonna be a major breakthrough.

I think one of the goals of the meeting is to set up another meeting where President Zelinsky, the Ukrainian president, will have the opportunity to meet directly with President Trump and President Putin.

And one thing I think is reassuring is that the White House has said that there'll be no deal made with the Russians on the future of Ukraine without Ukrainians at the table.

That is very, very important.

I think Putin may try to.

Present the impression that that's happening.

And I'm sure that they're working very hard to make the Ukrainians think that, but I'm glad the White House said that.

And I think it's, you know, I hope that that's what the line that will be supported and uh, the policy that will be supported during the meeting and clearly.

This taking place in Alaska is not by mistake.

What's the rationale there?

There's been press reporting obviously, that it has something to do with the international criminal court.

It takes Europe outta play.

What, what are your thoughts on why we're locating this in Alaska?

I think there are a couple of reasons.

One, as you mentioned, this reduces the, the challenges related to the ICC.

Since Putin has been, uh, indicted, right?

So there are some countries he can't go to or he can't go to with a lot, without a lot of heavy lifting, uh, and a lot of diplomacy, which probably nobody has the time for right now.

That's one, two, it's, you know, proximity's kind of a.

Neutral spot, although it's not neutral.

I'm very glad that the president is making Putin come to him in US territory in the United States.

Three.

I personally think, I know a lot of people are critical of the administration for doing this meeting in Alaska, but I think it's important for one reason, it's good for Putin to see that there was, there is territory that was once part of the Russian Empire, which is not part of the Russian Empire today, and will never be part of the Russian empire again.

Alaska, as many Americans know, was originally.

Settled by the Russians.

It was sold to the United States over 150 years ago in, I remember Seward Folly, and I forget what we paid for it, but it was not very much, was it seven and a half million?

I think it was maybe seven and a half or 15 million, but it was, it was a good deal.

Seward, at the time, by the way, was criticized, you know, se Folly government, the, the White House was criticized for making the deal, but it turned out to be a very, very good deal.

Very good real estate deal and it was part of the Russian Empire.

It is not part of the Russian empire today, and that is the same for Ukraine and other countries that were once part of the Russian empire.

Putin should see and should understand that there are parts of the world that may have been once part of an empire that are no longer part of an empire like the United States was part of the British Empire.

We are not part of the British Empire.

Right?

So, you know.

That is my opinion.

And I think that there's a symbolic piece here that people should focus on.

That's an interesting, yeah, I feel like I have not read that one.

And it makes, it makes a lot of sense.

So as we look at what's going on on the ground, you know, last Friday was intended to be this ultimatum change, of course concern for sanctions if, if things didn't change.

Putin's been pushing hard on the front lines in Ukraine over the past week.

Very likely is a lead up to this to assert a little more territory or dominance on the battlefield.

Well, there have been some developments.

There have been some claims by, by some sources, including Russian sources, that the Russians have gained some, or made some maybe strategic breakthroughs on the front line, which I think is inconsistent with the facts.

The Russians have sent some small teams into like behind, you know, Ukrainian lines.

In certain parts of the battlefield, but my understanding is that the Ukrainians are now doing mopping up operations that the Russians can't resupply those small teams of soldiers that have been infiltrated behind the, the Ukrainian lines.

I agree with you, the Russians are going to try to do as much as they can to seize territory and give the impression that they're in control of territory.

Because if the, if the negotiations really begin, they're gonna claim those small teams are in some village, let's say.

Or near Rosk, and then they're gonna claim Rosk is theirs, right?

This is a Russian negotiating tactic.

My own assessment is there will, there's gonna be no deal in Alaska.

There really can't be because Alinsky's not gonna be there.

And so then the Russians are gonna use this to buy a little bit more time.

I think they have slowed down their airstrikes to some degree, probably because they're waiting for after the summit.

In Alaska, and then they're gonna turn up the heat again on the Ukrainians and try to force the Ukrainians to surrender more territory.

So they're trying, they're just trying to improve their negotiating position.

The Russians do this all the time.

Yes.

They go to the negotiating table while they continue strikes.

Uh, just ask the Syrian opposition, anyone that followed the events in Syria, the Civil War in Syria, on what the Russians did there.

So we, we can learn from that.

Yeah.

No, no surprise.

No surprise.

Yes.

So for negotiating positions, I think what we keep reading about is.

You've got Russia wanting terrain, that they've taken certain parts of terrain.

They want some guarantees that Ukraine's not gonna further mobilize.

Maybe even demobilize depending on, on what you're reading.

Obviously a nod towards NATO and no membership for Ukraine there.

How serious, how hard of those, how hard are those in terms of red lines for the Russians?

Like some of these seem so unrealistic, but can they hold them?

Are they just bargaining chips?

Think the Russians are taking a maximalist position, which is what they do if they are forced to negotiating table, and that requires us to demonstrate that we're willing to put more pressure on Moscow and cause more pain for Vladimir Putin and his regime.

They will probably negotiate away some of those positions.

They will, they can compromise.

Deals can be made.

It's never easy, and no one should assume that.

They're just gonna show up and say, okay, we agree.

You know, we're gonna re remove our demand that Ukraine never be part of nato.

You know, my understanding is they're still talking about this silly idea of deification.

If they wanted to do ification, they'd have to fight half of Russia.

I think President Trump said recently when Putin offered to get involved in negotiations with the Iranians, focus on your own country and your own war.

That should be the, the message.

You know, they're, they're talking about, my understanding is all the areas where they have occupied donts, most of Luhan, but they're in Zaro, you know, where they have not taken all of roia, they're, they're demanding that the Ukrainians seed, all of Zaro to Russia.

Um, and, and Ong, you know, what is ironic about all this is that those areas were never, like, that is not Russian territory.

And so.

And the Ukrainians are saying, we're not gonna do that.

We're not gonna surrender territory.

So the million dollar question, again, you're indicating that maybe not a lot of ground is made here, but there's an assessment that President Trump makes with Putin and, and then meets with Zelensky.

But if you fast forward a few weeks or months, but what do you think ends up happening in the end?

And what's interesting is you and I had talked about this many months ago when we did the interview on combat story.

You're very accurate in what you had, uh, assessed then.

So I'm curious now.

What do you think this ends as?

Ryan?

If I could only predict the stock market, that would be, yeah, I'd be doing this podcast with you in, that's right.

In a jet.

Yeah, in a jet.

That's right.

We've been our yacht.

Oh, that's right.

You know, I think President Trump is saying he wants an opportunity to meet with Putin face to face.

Hear Putin's response when he.

Says like we wanna cease for.

That's one of the demands that the Ukrainians are making, and I think that the White House is making and is a very reasonable demand if you wanna negotiate, stop attacking the Ukrainian positions, and the Ukrainians will stop attacking your positions.

Right?

I think the Ukrainians are probably ready to do that.

The Russians have shown no willingness to do that.

Goes back to my point about the Russians wanted to say they're negotiating, sending delegations to Geneva, Vienna, wherever, and then continuing to attack the president.

Ha, in my opinion.

Has every right, as the leader of the United States to have this meeting, every other president has had their opportunity to engage Putin and the Soviet leaders.

Uh, so I, you know, this is called diplomacy.

And as the head of state, we should support him and encourage him to do what's right here for the United States, which would be to support Ukraine and to make it clear to Vladimir Putin that if he does not make a deal, if he does not agree to some of the terms, and show a willingness to compromise.

Then there will be serious consequences.

And you know, you mentioned the deadline, president Trump, you know, my understanding is we went forward on part of the deadline or the consequences, which are the secondary sanctions on India.

Now the White House is saying, okay, be ready, including our European partners, be ready to enforce new sanctions because it's not just gonna be the United States alone.

We all need to do this.

And you know, if it were me.

If I would make my position clear to Putin.

If Putin doesn't agree to the position, I'd walk outta the meeting and say, okay, at midnight tonight, the secondary sanctions start, and until my Russian counterpart is ready to really negotiate in sincerity, there's nothing to talk about.

Do you think in the, in the end of this, whether it's a month down the road or more.

Ukraine ends up losing ground.

I mean, I, listen, the Russians have been trying to take ground for, for two years.

They've taken some ground, but especially in the last year, so they, it's been very slow.

Okay.

They took ground, they lost ground.

They're having a very hard time taking significant amounts of territory.

They're paying a tremendous price for it.

Ukrainians have demonstrated that they can also take ground and you never know what the Ukrainians, they may have a surprise up their sleeve and they may.

Launch another counter offensive or offensive where they take back some ground.

So on the battlefield, how things are gonna work out.

You know, there are a lot of factors that go into what's gonna happen long term.

I do think, this is just my prediction, there will be serious negotiations in the next few months.

There will be, it may take a meeting in Alaska where Putin is not willing to show that he's gonna negotiate.

In sincerity, and then what has to come after that.

I do worry in the end, Ukraine ends up losing some, which I would hate to see.

I would hate to see it.

I guess a lot of people worry about that.

The only thing I would say is, I said this to my Ukrainian friends many times, if we look at other examples, there have been examples where countries have temporarily had to give up control of parts of their country.

Then they were able to take back that territory over time.

If we look at like Germany after the Second World War, it was divided and split by the Soviet block.

Uh, but eventually it's a unified Germany, thank God today Germany is a unified country.

There are other examples that we, you know, we talk about Azerbaijan.

The Azeris would've told you, you know, 25% of their territory was taken away from them in the, uh, gro B War in the nineties.

It's now part of.

Again today.

Mm-hmm.

So it, it may not like, it may not be immediate, uh, that they get everything that they want back or that they deserve back, but over time they could get it back.

Yeah.

That's an interesting take.

Now you travel to Ukraine a lot.

We've talked about that.

You spend time with people who are, who are leading and making decisions over there, how would you advise them now?

What, what are they thinking about going into this?

I mean, they have been through years of bloodshed right?

On this front.

How would I advise them?

You know, I don't know that I ever any place to advise them.

I always say the Ukrainians should be advising us.

They have demonstrated to us a resilience and an ability to do things with very little, which is pretty incredible.

I would just let them know that.

I think US support is increasing.

You know, I saw a poll recently where support among, let's say the MAGA population in the United States is increasing for Ukraine.

I think, um, the Ukrainians, you know, they're, and I, I don't think I have to advise them.

I think they're ready to make a deal, like they're ready to be, to show some willingness to compromise.

But there are red lines for Ukraine, and my advice then would be stick to those red lines.

Like some of the things, like one of the things I understand that they agree to, they had, there was a summit with the Europeans this week where they said, we're never gonna agree that Russia should allow us or tell us that we can be part of NATO or part of the European Union.

I agree with that.

That is not Russia's decision.

That is the decision of Kev, the Ukrainian people.

Right.

I agree with you.

I feel like that would be a hard red line for Russia though.

Because as soon as Ukraine goes into nato, the idea of ever setting foot in there again changes the entire calculus.

Does it not?

It may change the calculus, but let's take a step back.

Why are we fighting the, like, why are they fighting this war?

What is it doing for Russia?

It's not bringing Russia any benefit.

And I, I tried to make this argument to Russians for years, Ukraine is an independent country, is not a threat to Russia if you treat it well.

It's actually could be a benefit for Russia.

Clearly agree, yes, right now, you're right.

Many, many people in in Russia don't agree with that.

The level of paranoia is very deep.

The level of concern, and we have to understand that too.

I mean, we have to be realistic.

I think this is one of the reasons why it's good.

President Trump is gonna meet with Vladimir Putin, let him hear directly from Putin and see what kind of is going going on in Putin's head.

Again, that's diplomacy, and I heard the Russian arguments over and over again.

At the end of the day, if the Ukrainian people vote for independence and the Ukrainian people vote to be part of the European Union, then they, that's their decision.

We should never want any country to dictate to us, and my own view is the United States should stand by those countries that are, they're just trying to, you know, assert their sovereignty.

Kind of a, a philosophical question here, if I'm trying to, to put on my realist hat, would you not, as the US, want to back Ukraine and have them.

Fight Russia and bleed Russia out on this if you're the realist to weaken Russia?

No, no, no.

I mean I, first of all, I don't know if I'm a realist or idealist.

I guess on one issue I may be an idealist of, you know, I dunno, like a pessimist.

I'm plenty of issues.

I'm pretty pessimistic.

I am in Camp Ryan.

I wanna stress that.

Okay.

But I don't, you know, the idea of bleeding rush out.

I don't think that's a good idea.

Personally, I think I agree with the president.

We need to end this war.

I think if you actually, the idea of bleeding rush out is gonna mean bleeding the Ukrainians out and we can't do that.

I mean, it's, it's, somebody said this once last year when there was a big debate about uh, how much equipment and assistance we should give the Ukrainians, and we were kind of giving it drips and drabs very slow to make decisions.

And someone said like, Washington is ready to fight to the last Ukrainian.

I don't support that.

I don't think that's fair to the Ukrainian people.

So let's say in the end here, Russia ends up with some Ukrainian territory.

There's a land swap.

As we've heard the the term.

At this point, do you worry or should we worry about how China might look at Taiwan if that were an outcome here?

Or is that China taking a small piece of land from Taiwan is highly unlikely no matter what.

I would say, Ryan, that if the, if the leadership of the Communist Party of the People's Republic of China sees that Putin gets everything he wants and doesn't pay a long-term price for what he did, this land grab, then there's a danger that they will try and interesting.

Okay.

If they see that he doesn't get everything that he wants and that he's paid a serious price and he's had to suffer, then I think that their calculation will be different.

I would also suggest that they, by the way, like talking about bleeding out, my guess is the Chinese are very happy to see the Russians expending a lot of resources and having to turn to Beijing and having to sell to Beijing at, at discounted prices, you know, oil, gas, whatever the Chinese need.

And I just wanna do like a historic analogy going back to Alaska.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Why did the Russians have to sell Alaska?

They needed money to fight another war Putin.

Is now in a position where he's, you know, I've argued this before, there, he's having to sell bits and pieces of Russia off to who?

To Beijing.

Wow.

So that's in the, that's not in the interest of the Russian people.

It may be the, in, in the tactical interest of this regime.

It's not in the long-term interest of the Russian people, and it's not in the, our long-term interest either, I would argue.

Super interesting.

I mean, we talked about it before.

Like what, why Russia even did this?

I mean, is there a good, if you're Putin, what has this earned him in the end?

National pride, maybe?

Yeah.

I mean, I, I think what has earned Putin, that's a great question.

I mean, one is let's try and put ourselves in, in the shoes or like in the seat of Putin and people around him.

There was a legitimate paranoia and fear.

I would argue they didn't, they were not worried that Ukraine was gonna invade that thousands of Nazis were gonna come across the border.

I think what they were worried about was the I ideological threat of Ukraine prospering while Russia was going backwards and Russia was not developing economically.

You know, I remember, uh, dealing with Russians in 2017, 18 that were furious because the UK Ukraine, the European Union, was allowing Ukrainians to travel to Russia, visa free, I mean, sorry, to Europe, visa free.

And the Russians couldn't do that.

And they were furious saying like, we are stuck.

We can't go without a sheen visa.

And now the Ukrainians, who let's face the Russians, look down on them as the little brothers.

Are living better than we are.

There are stories of when the Russian forces, uh, initially invaded Ukraine or expanded their invasion in 2022, some of our Ukrainian friends, military friends told us this story where they, they chased the Russians out of Kyiv and the Russians had written all over the walls of apartments and they, how dare you live like this.

In other words, they had bathrooms, they had running water, they had washing machines in their apartments, and the Russians were furious because they don't have that.

The mentality is different than our mentality.

Fortunately, we are Americans, we're part of the dream.

We we're a very prosperous country for all our faults.

You know, we're a great country.

Many, many Russians, deep down, they want that.

And I think Putin and the people around them saw that if you, Ukraine continues to move closer to the west.

And integrate and develop.

It's gonna make people here say, why are we living with this guy telling us how to live?

The Ukrainians are electing their president.

Yeah.

That's why they create this false narrative that like, it's like the government's illegitimate in Kiv.

No.

Ukrainian people voted for President Zelensky.

They voted him into office.

They have a legislation.

Right?

A legislator, a legislation what called the ADA branch.

Like they're part of it.

Sorry.

They elect their mayors.

In Russia, those mayors are like put in place by the Czar.

Yeah, that's right.

And I'm, I'm very confident many Russians are like, look, were looking at Ukraine and saying, why can't we do that?

Like we're Slavic brothers.

Putin says that all the time.

We're Slavic brothers.

The Ukrainians could do it.

Why can't we?

Well, when guys like Putin hear that, that's like, uh, that's not good for me, right?

Because I'll be the next P Asad.

Except where is he gonna go?

I mean, Asad went to Moscow.

Where's Putin gonna go?

Yang Yang.

So in short, I mean it's for Putin to, I, I'm not putting words in your mouth, but like, it, it serves him, doesn't really serve the rest of the country effectively.

Yeah.

My personal opinion is, serves the ego of one man and the in small, like the narrow interest of a small group of people.

It is not serving Russia long term.

It is not serving the interest of Russia.

It's not serving Russian culture.

What Putin did, you know, Ryan, you go to Ukraine and outside of.

One of the cities we visited, we stopped, and there's a monument to the second World War, like what the Russians, Ukrainians call the great patriotic war.

The Soviets call.

And we were looking, standing with two Ukrainian soldiers that we know, some officers, and I said to 'em, you know, it's like Putin has turned Russia into the fascists.

It's like they spit on the graves of all these people that fought to roll back, like the fascist invasion, the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union.

So I don't think long-term this is good for Russia.

Yeah.

And I tell you, there are a lot of Russians that are now ashamed to speak Russian in public.

They don't want people, people I know in the United States three years ago, four years ago, they were Russians.

Now you talk to 'em, they, well, I'm Ukrainian and no, I mean, it's sad.

That's really sad.

You know, nobody's have to live like that.

Putin and, and his regime has done that to the image of the country.

Interesting.

I once saw a picture and we, we'll cut this out if we can't have it in.

Have you met Vitali Klitschko?

Yes.

Are you, are we allowed to talk about that, like just the stature of this human, like is he as imposing as the, so the mayor of Ukraine, of Kiev, for people who don't know famous, very famous boxer.

Giant.

I mean, yes.

Can, can his hand just palm your face?

Yeah.

It's like, uh, yeah.

I mean he, he, we wanted to take a selfie with him and we said, can we ask like maybe your, uh, assistant take a picture.

He says, why I have the best selfie stick in the world.

And it's like, you know, he reached across the room with his, and as we were talking to him, he is sitting there and he is got like, you could see these fists like this.

And he's talking and I'm saying to my, and then he's talked about his brother, you know, he has a brother who's also a world champion, also boxer, right?

Yeah.

And I said to one of the guys that was me, can you imagine if we had gone to war with these guys?

Take like Ryan's on one leg cleanse on the other who, who take that trend?

Uh, well about that.

You see that guy's like hands, they're like baseball gloves and what's he like?

He's very, very smart, very smart, very thoughtful, very, very smart, thoughtful.

He's, he's the mayor of the biggest city, the biggest municipality in Ukraine right now.

And, uh, he is, got a lot on his shoulders.

His staff has a lot on his shoulders.

I was very impressed with our meeting with him.

I, you know, I walked outta there.

He said some very, I'm not gonna go into it here, but he said some very, very interesting things that were clearly thoughtful.

He's not like a typical kind of just throw something out there, politician looking for votes, or a very, very thoughtful guy.

Some of the Ukrainians that we know told us, like he's one of the only guys, one of the only politicians other than Zelensky that has taken the time to go to the front to visit the troops on the front.

Wow.

Right.

Okay.

Even that's cool.

Even like when they're in combat operations.

Okay.

On on, on Christmas Eve or Christmas.

That's awesome.

God, I love that.

Right?

Dude's like a world champion, boxer, badass, giant chiseled.

He still goes and does that when he could be on a yacht in the Mediterranean so far from that.

That's awesome.

Okay, so now you know a thing or two about the, uh, the espionage world.

You've got Putin meeting with Trump, Putin as well known his background in KGB and, and the Intel community.

If you're advising Trump or the administration going into this meeting.

What are you suggesting?

Not just in the room, like President Trump knows how to handle that, but is there anything from your time working that Russian target that you would suggest going into this?

Well, the Russians are gonna try and turn on a charm offensive.

The, my understanding is he's bringing Laro Bellows of the Minister of Defense.

He's bringing Karo Demetri, who's the guy that they kind of roll out with, the Americans he worked in on Wall Street.

He's very sharp, very sophisticated.

They're gonna try and turn on the charm offensive.

You know, there's supposed to be a lunch, I think, after the meeting.

So my understanding is President Trump is gonna meet President Putin with translators.

That's it, right?

And then by the way, like the people in the united say the president shouldn't meet alone.

Other presidents have done that.

Right?

JFK did it with Khrushchev.

Other people have done it and uh, there's not nothing horrible about that.

And there's a note taker.

Is there not Glenn or No, I think there'll be a note taker usually.

Usually, yeah.

Right.

I think, you know, sometimes the principles don't wanna a distraction.

They just wanna focus on getting to know each other and talking to each other.

So that's one.

Two, the rush to your question, and I'm sorry for digressing a little bit, but I, I think the Russians are gonna try and turn on the charm.

They're gonna talk about all the benefits that they can give the United States, all the mineral rights deals that we can make, all the money that can be made.

Uh, you know that they're the innocent ones here.

That they didn't come up with this, they didn't start this war.

They've been maligned in the Western media, which, you know, the media unfortunately.

People are gonna say, the media in the United States has not carried itself very well in recent years on some issues.

And now, like Americans are a little bit doubtful sometimes, you know, their faith in the media has dropped.

And I'm sure the Russians are gonna try and play on that.

They're gonna try and play that, you know, with the president and the, I'm not sure who the president's taking with them.

My guess is Steve Woff, uh, I don't know, maybe Marco Rubio, hopefully, I'm not sure who else.

But they'll, they'll try and they'll try and, um, you know.

Babo and they're very good at it.

By the way, I'm not gonna lie, like when I worked with, like, met with the Russians, I enjoyed it.

They're fun people to be around.

Wait, wait, why?

If they're very good at it.

Why do you enjoy that?

Well, because they're, they're smart.

They're, they, they are, how do I say it?

They're savvy in many ways.

They have good sense of humor, you know, so like, like, it's not like they're.

Gonna be credence, uh, they're gonna do the opposite.

Now, the, the president and his team, my advice is be very, very careful because that a lot of that is a facade, right?

It's a game.

They've gotta know that though, right, Glenn?

They gotta know that.

I hope so.

I mean, you know, the president of the United States is not a, you know, he's not like right out of high school or college.

He did business in New York for years.

He must know what.

Complicated, tricky people are all about, and how people can turn on the charm, you know, then stab you in the back as soon as you can.

And I, you know, I, I've written about this, but Putin wants to show the world that he's dominating President Trump, that he's in a position of strength and that he's an equal at a minimum to Trump.

I think President Trump needs to show Putin that ain't the case.

What about some of the critiques?

We'll hear that even having this meeting where Putin gets to be.

In proximity to Trump is, is a win for, for Putin?

Well, there, there may be some win for Putin, but with with whom?

Like, who's the win for it?

First of all, we, in the us the media, if that's the tack we take, we're just giving him a win.

Right?

We, in a way can control that if we control our initial instincts to say it's all bad.

President Biden met with, with, uh, with Putin in 2021.

In Switzerland, they had a summit.

Even though Russian troops were occupying part of Ukraine were killing Ukrainians, they had a summit.

You know, every president, president Obama met with Putin, president Bush, uh, junior met with Putin.

So I'm not against diplomacy.

I'm not against trying to have some kind of dialogue that that is very important.

Like you can't resolve everything with war.

I think we should have probably learned that in the last, you know, 30 years in this country.

Not always the way, it's, it's very important to have the most powerful military in the world and to be able to project power when you have to.

But if you can resolve problems through negotiations, through dialogue, that's even better.

Right?

And so, going into this meeting, I think President Trump understands what he's dealing with.

Maybe, you know, maybe not the way that most people in Washington understand it.

And I think this is what's challenging for a lot of people today.

President Trump is, he's a different type of thinker.

Marco Rubio said after they, they recognized, you know, the Syrian government, I heard him testify to Congress and he said, look, like we're taking a bit of a risk here.

We're doing something.

You know, in the past we'd have spent two years debating whether we should do this or not in Washington.

We just made the decision to do it, move quickly because we can't lose time because waiting two years will mean like we'll be, well, Syria would back into a, like a pit of vipers and terrorism and extremism, right.

We're taking a risk.

It may work, it may not work.

We have to accept that, but sometimes you gotta take a risk.

So I, I applaud that personally.

And it sounds like not having zelensky at the table for this meeting makes sense for several reasons.

If it's just to really assess Putin and his willingness to to come along.

And if you're gonna meet with Zelensky later, there's been a lot of heat about not having Zelensky at this particular meeting.

Yeah.

And if you stick to the policy that we're not making any deal, this is not to discuss the future of Ukraine, this is to set up the next meeting.

To find out whether Putin is even ready to do that.

If Putin is not, then we go to plan B, which is not the best alternative I think.

When we talk about secondary sanctions, some of the things that, you know, I have advocated for that's gonna cause pain for all our allies, it's gonna cause some challenges in our relationships with other, we have to be realistic about that.

Like we don't operate in a vacuum.

So if we, if Putin can come outta the meeting and say, okay, I will, I will order a, a cessation of all hostilities and we're gonna start negotiations, that would be a good thing.

I think right now it's not over yet, but it would be a good start.

And the only way to do that is to have this meeting, I think.

For the president to look, I, you know, look, you know, sit face to face with Putin without a lot of distractions.

And maybe you're right.

I mean, I have mixed feelings about this.

I kind of wish the president had invited Zelensky to Alaska and told President Putin, this is my country, he's my guest.

But I see what you're saying.

And that makes sense too, like let them meet first, talk to each other.

And then set the stage for a, a trilateral meeting, or President Trump has said maybe some of our European partners there as well.

I'll get you outta here on this question, Glen, but, uh, I mean, you know the Russians better than anyone I'll ever come across.

What is it that you think would hit hardest to bring the Russians to.

The table or just bring them in line a little bit more?

Well, I think that there are, you know, we, we've talked a little bit and there are a lot of ideas on the table about ways to put more pressure on Moscow.

One is secondary sanctions, increasing the sanctions.

Two is increasing aid to the Ukrainians, you know, supplying them with more.

Okay.

Yeah.

And this White House has said that we will, we will sell more equipment to the Europeans to.

Support the Ukrainians.

Maybe we change that position, you know, give it directly to Ukrainians in the future as a sign that like we're going right to them.

So there are other things we could do too.

I mean, you could go down the gamut of, you know, responses.

By the way, I think that we should, you know, not just, it's not just Ukraine worldwide.

Wherever the Russians were causing havoc, we should support those people that are pushing back.

It's kind of the Ron Ronald Reagan approach or the rollback.

What's an example of that, Glen?

Sorry, is that Africa?

You're thinking maybe Africa, Latin America, the Western hemisphere, like some of their allies there.

Maybe they should feel a little bit of heat.

Interesting and Right.

But one thing too, Ryan, which it's not a very popular thing to say with many people in the United States today, so I hope we don't get any death threats on restricted handling, but we also have to think, we're talking about the stick.

What is the carrot?

What is the incentive?

How do we incentivize the Russians to behavior?

There's one thing I've said for years.

We're not very good at it.

You know, starting in 2014, like I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't have sanctioned the Russians we should have for what they did, but we also need to think when they do something that is tangible and is positive, how do, how do we respond to that?

How do we show them that, you know, that is not a, like we see that as a good thing and it's in our national interest, and so.

What do we do there?

This is gonna be very, very tricky because the Russians obviously want us to remove all the sanctions and let their economy thrive again.

The Ukrainians are very worried that that's gonna happen and the Russians are gonna use that to then re-arm their military, start a new offensive in five years, two years, 10 years, you name it.

You know, you ask before, like, how does this all end?

If you ask many Ukrainians, they say it's been going on for hundreds of years.

Yeah.

Does it ever end?

I dunno.

I mean, that's the kind of pessimist in me.

We do need to think about what are the incentives, the tangible things that Russia could do.

For example, withdrawing from Ukrainian territory, right?

Big what, how, right?

Big.

How would we respond, right?

And then we have to think about the long-term impact on both Ukraine and Russia.

And that means the entire world of all of the destruction and all of the, let's say, PTSD issues.

We're gonna be facing, um, you know, societal disruption in both countries where hundreds of thousands of citizens have been at war, where children, especially on the Ukrainian side, this is a heartbreaker.

Children have been subjected to the horrors of war in a way that no child should ever be subjected to.

Yeah.

How are we in the United States and the west?

The rest of the world going to respond.

You know, the, the war in Ukraine, let's say that there's a ceasefire tomorrow.

Our work just begins.

I think, yeah.

Interesting.

And with Russia, we need to think about how do we incentivize the Russians?

So there, there has to be some kind of carrot.

This is great.

Glen, anything we missed or that, uh, talking points that you think we need to, to land with folks?

No, but I wanna go back to our first, uh, encounter together on the show back when, I don't know, 2023 or.

When I was with you, with Gavin?

Yeah.

Yep.

Right in your studio, which is a great, uh, day.

By the way, Ryan has really good beer.

Anybody.

That's why I was drunk at the, I might, I might be having some right now.

Possibly.

Cheers.

We say Ukrainian.

What is it?

Wooo.

What is it?

Budah Budah.

Hmm.

All right.

But I do wanna say it's like you're like a Russia expert.

I'm not a Russia expert.

Nobody is a Russia expert, in my opinion.

So, for all your listeners, if someone tells you that they, they really understand Russia, be very careful because it's very, very, very, even Russians don't understand their country, in my opinion.

So I, I see a lot of people out there promoting themselves as Russia experts.

I wanna stress that I am not really, I mean, I'm a Long Island expert.

I lo I understand Long Island.

Gimme a break.

Alright.

I don't.

Hey, but Glen, for those who aren't watching, your haircut is looking good.

It's sharp.

Thank you.

You're gonna be on TV this weekend.

I don't know if we could talk about it, but let's not talk about you.

All right.

But you're looking good.

You're looking good.

Yeah.

You look marvelous.

All right, until next time everybody, thank you for tuning in and, uh, if you're interested in getting a daily, take, a little daily Intel brief on what's going on in Russia, China, Iran, middle East, some other places.

We've got something curated with just, uh, open source.

You can go to restricted handling.com and sign up and you'll get that in your inbox every, uh, Monday to Friday in the morning.

I recommend it.

Really great thing that Brian put together.

So, yeah, outstanding work.

Alright, thanks so much.