Emily Cave Boit (00:00):

Hi everyone. Welcome back to episode 15 with You are More. I am so excited for today's guest. Her story is absolutely inspiring. I've loved following her journey on social media. Nina was diagnosed with cancer at the age of 32 and has been incredibly open about her breast cancer journey, so I'm excited to have her on the show, learn a little bit more about her journey and bring awareness to breast cancer. So welcome, Nina. Hello. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I gave a little bit brief of your story in the introduction, but let's talk about who you are, a little bit about your story, and then obviously we'll dive a little bit deeper, but kind of bring me back to the moment you had a feeling that something was wrong, which then obviously was confirmed that you were diagnosed with breast cancer. So take me back to that horrible time in your life.

Nina Koebel (01:27):

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Yeah, so I guess it was about this time, actually three years ago, probably the beginning of May, end of April. I literally just accidentally kind of touch the side of my chest there and I felt something that I hadn't felt before that felt really strange and I think I knew immediately because of how different it felt, how irregular, how hard it was. I almost told people that it was like a rock that you would find somewhere on the street that was maybe about yay big that I could feel.

(02:11):

So I immediately just had a really bad gut feeling about that and that's when I started picking up the phone trying to get a mammogram. And that was a lot more difficult than I thought it would be initially. Not necessarily to get the requisition, but to get something scheduled in a reasonable amount of time at my age was challenging. So there was a waiting period where I knew I had felt something, I had a really bad feeling about it, but I couldn't access the screening. They were telling me it's going to be like nine months until you can get a mammogram at the hospital closest to my house in Toronto.

(02:53):

So I was like, okay. I didn't really accept that, but I had to sit with it for a minute and then come up with a plan of action. But I really started to feel just unwell after that. I just remember times when I'd be out with friends and I just wouldn't want to do anything. I wasn't social. I started to have a lot of pain right here in my armpit, unbeknownst to me, but it was obviously it had metastasized or it was metastasizing to that main lymph node in there and a couple others. So I think my body was starting to tell me, Hey, something is really, really wrong, giving me more and more cues. So that's when I really vigorously started calling my family doctor, being like, Hey, I'm not waiting nine months for a mammogram. What can we do? So she had switched the hospital networks to see if she'd get me in earlier in a different area, which they could, but it was still supposed to be three month wait.

(03:47):

So it was just repeatedly calling and calling and calling, and I ended up getting in earlier just from a cancellation. They were like, okay, we actually had a cancellation. Can you come tomorrow? I was like, yes. And I only got that. I called every day being like, do you have cancellations? Do you have cancellations? And so then I was officially diagnosed on June 2nd, 2022, and it was almost like a relief. That sounds weird, but that waiting period of knowing something is wrong and maybe people not taking you as seriously because of your age was really, really hard. And I felt validated when I finally had it confirmed. Do

Emily Cave Boit (04:25):

You remember, were you alone when you found out or was your now fiance there or your parents?

Nina Koebel (04:30):

Yeah, he was there and my mom had gone with me to a lot of the biopsies and follow up appointments, and I was really appreciative of the individual who ended up being my surgeon. He was really a straight shooter, which I like. So when he said, here's your imaging, we're going to biopsy it. I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure this is cancer. So he just told me that before I even got the confirmation,

(04:58):

which I like. I don't like waiting. I'd rather just have someone tell me how it is so that I can process it.

Emily Cave Boit (05:04):

Yeah, I agree. Sometimes it's harder with the wish wash. I would rather someone just straight shoot, especially when it's something like that you don't want, I feel like a false hope, if that makes sense. You would

Nina Koebel (05:19):

Rather the limbo, the waiting is so mentally draining and it's like once you have confirmation, even though it's the worst case scenario, the thing you didn't want, at least now it's validated and you can do something about it.

Emily Cave Boit (05:36):

Do you think you made a comment about people being maybe not as understanding or taking you seriously because of your age. What is the statistic of being diagnosed with, do you know of breast cancer at 32?

Nina Koebel (05:52):

So it's a one in eight women will be diagnosed with breast cancer. I think there's a misconception that it's an older person's disease like that women over 50 get breast cancer, women under 50 don't. And I think its prevalence is definitely higher as you age, but there's certainly women who are being diagnosed in their thirties and their forties. And to me it's just crazy that we don't offer screening to people. I don't have family history. I don't have a mutation, a known mutation, but I still had breast cancer and most people that will be diagnosed don't have family history, don't have mutations to give them access to earlier screening.

Emily Cave Boit (06:39):

Yeah, I was going to ask you that if there was any family history or mutation of this, so you were the first one in your family

Nina Koebel (06:45):

To be diagnosed? Yeah, I was the first known in our family on I think both sides of my family. So it can really happen to anyone. And I think things I did learn about myself in hindsight were that I had pretty dense breast tissue, but you never have a mammogram when you're not able to have a mammogram. You don't really know that. And I think that's a flaw in our healthcare system because that alone can increases someone's risk of breast cancer so much. And then on top of that, I had crazy hormone levels that were completely out of whack. But again, I don't know that they don't really proactively measure your hormone levels or say, oh wow, look at how estrogen dominant she is. That creates a really favorable environment to the development of certain types of cancer. So proactive health is unfortunately not really on anyone's radar, especially that

Emily Cave Boit (07:40):

I also feel like you have been, which is so amazing vocal on your Instagram about your journey, and I think that's really important. I feel like for even our parents way back in before Instagram or social media, I feel like there's always a blessing and a curse because obviously you get the trolls and you get the hate, but there is a lot of support and it does help other people. I am sure your story has encouraged so many other women to check or just be hyper alert or hypersensitive that it can happen to anyone, which is amazing of you to share your journey. I know that is helping other people to be on top of things that I don't think you would normally think of unless, or maybe they weren't even really openly talked about back in the day. So that is a blessing and a curse of social media. But yeah, it's been really cool to see your journey obviously from afar, wish you didn't have to share it, but how you've navigated it and help bring awareness. So when you got the official diagnosis to when treatment started, what type of treatment did you do and kind of your journey?

Nina Koebel (09:07):

Okay, yeah, so when I was officially diagnosed, as I mentioned in a way it was a relief. Now we can kind of spring into action and get started on things and it allowed me to be more open about what I was going through. I was kind of going through something major and in this period of limbo and felt like I couldn't talk about it because what if it's not cancer? You don't want to be the person who thinks they have cancer and then doesn't have it. So it was a weight in that sense. So the first step in the process for me was a fertility preservation. So we kind of did that first, which took about a month to freeze my eggs in the event of wanting a family in the future just because that is more complicated now. And then I was recommended to do chemotherapy before I had surgery, so they call that neoadjuvant chemotherapy.

(09:59):

The goal is that maybe they can get rid of the lymph node metastasis if there is it, which we knew that I did have it, they biopsy did. So they're trying to see if they could get rid of that so they could be less surgically invasive and also maybe shrink the tumor a bit so that they don't have to take as much necessarily. So when I had surgery, we learned it didn't work quite as well as they had hoped, so they removed my tumor with a lumpectomy. They did get clear margins on that, but when they took out four lymph nodes in my sentinel node biopsy and two of them still had what they call a macro metastasis and one had a micro metastasis and the fourth one had nothing. So that's kind of an inconclusive result in the surgery world. They dealt, they might've got all the cancer, but there was still cancer there, so it's not something that surgeon necessarily feels good about. So at that point I was recommended a second surgery to go in and just take all the lymph nodes out of my left side. So they scheduled that about a month later, which delayed things a little bit and obviously it was a bit of a curve ball. I wasn't expecting that to have to go for another surgery. But the good news was when they went back in, they took I think 13 or 14 more lymph nodes and they were all cleared. So it was peace of mind from that perspective.

(11:23):

And then following that, I think there was about another month period of recovery. And then I went into radiation. We did I think 20 rounds of radiation on both breast and the armpit area. And then following during that, they started to put you into medically induced menopause. So my cancer was hormone receptor positive, so they put me on Zoladex and a drug anastrozole, which basically just blocks estrogen production in the body so that you stay in a state of menopause and essentially there's no estrogen to fuel any cancer that might be lingering somewhere is the idea. So that course of drugs is at least five years. So I've been on that for approaching three years and then kind of following all that normal treatment, then I got put on a newer drug called Zenio, which is an oral medication that you take twice a day for two years. I'll be done that soon. That's a pretty rough one though. Hasn't been an easy two years on that drug, but it's supposed to be pretty effective at killing any microscopic cancer that might be lingering somewhere that chemo missed. So I'm grateful to have the opportunity to be on it.

Emily Cave Boit (12:37):

Yeah. Wow. I feel like, I mean, even when you're checking there, I didn't know even the drugs that you still take, you kind of just think of when you're not in, when you haven't experienced that journey before, you're kind of like, oh, you go through chemo and then it's good. So it's really educational to know there's so much more after the chemo and

Nina Koebel (13:00):

The radiation. I have idea and the surgery, it's an ongoing process, and now I have my MRIs every year to check things out my breast, which is part of the reason I opted for a lumpectomy and not mastectomy because a lot of people will ask that question. And for me, I wanted that access to that high risk MRI, which I think is easier to get in Canada than in the us but people have different things that they prioritize. I know some people find MRIs very anxiety inducing, whereas I almost like the extra security to see what else might be going on, even though it's led me to get brain MRIs and liver MRIs and all this because of incidental, but at least I know, so I kind of like

Emily Cave Boit (13:42):

That. Yeah. Is there anything, looking back during your treatment, even up to now you're saying the medication that you're still on, which I'm sure is hard because I feel like people are probably like, oh, it's two years out. They're not thinking you're still on this medication, but is there anything from a patient perspective to family or friend's perspective that you would recommend to do and not to do?

Nina Koebel (14:11):

Yeah, when someone's in treatment, I know a lot of people always reach out and how can we help? How can we help? And I think every patient knows that the intent there is

(14:23):

Good, but we are so overwhelmed and I'm sure from your situation sometimes you don't know what to say, I don't know what I need. I don't know how you can help me. It's just when people just send an Uber Eats gift card so I don't have to cook or help me with someone to clean my house, things like that, when you just don't have the energy for it. That's so helpful. Or just, I love to read, so people who just bought me books or send me gift cards for books or anything that just be proactive. If you know the person at all, just think about what they like or if you don't know them that well, everybody can use gift cards for food and cleaning when they're going through a rough time.

Emily Cave Boit (15:03):

Totally. I feel like gift cards, even still to this day, I feel like when someone, I don't know, obviously our situations are different. However, I feel like even now when someone asks me what I want even five years out, I'm like, gift card. I don't know. I'm just like, I don't want to put the time and energy to be like, I want this one thing. It's just like I have no clue.

(15:29):

You learn that life can throw a curve ball at you so fast that you're just like,

Nina Koebel (15:37):

I

Emily Cave Boit (15:37):

Don't know, the

Nina Koebel (15:38):

Gift cards and the food just can't go wrong with

Emily Cave Boit (15:41):

Yes,

Nina Koebel (15:42):

The food.

Emily Cave Boit (15:43):

Food gift cards.

Nina Koebel (15:44):

Yeah.

Emily Cave Boit (15:45):

Speaking of treatment, one thing that you shared on your journey and I feel like is becoming very popular is cold capping. So tell us a little bit about that.

Nina Koebel (15:57):

Yeah, so I honestly didn't even know cold capping was a thing. I remember I was speaking to my manager at the time from work and I was just crying like, oh, I'm going to lose my hair. How am I going to do this job? I wanted to keep working without hair. Everyone's going to know I'm sick. And she's like, oh no, you can try cold capping. And I was like, what's that? I have no clue. So then I went down a rabbit hole looking into it and basically you just, it's like scalp hypothermia, almost like you freeze your scalp with a cap that's kept in dry ice or some larger centers like Princess Margaret in Toronto have actual machines in the centers now that can do it. And the whole aim is to freeze the hair follicles so that less chemotherapy drug can get in there and kill it, and you have to manage your expectations.

(16:49):

I definitely lost a lot of hair, but if you saw me throughout chemo and you didn't know me that well, obviously my face changed. There's certain things that changed when you're on chemotherapy because of steroids and all the other medication being pumped into your body, no one would've really been able to tell I was sick. I kept enough hair for basically my entire course of treatment at the end. It did start to shed quite a bit, but then at the same time it was also regrowing, so I started to look a little bit weird. I have pretty thick hair as you'll notice, so I did end up deciding to cut it short eventually to just make it look more uniform. But yeah, I mean it works definitely. You're not going to keep all your hair, but if that's a priority for someone, it's an option. I think more and more younger women are exploring it because I think losing your hair in your thirties, early forties, that's a very traumatic experience, especially when you're in the height of your career, you have different things going on. The hardest part of cancer is looking sick, I think. I don't want to say chemotherapy is easy, it's certainly not, but it's something you can get through. I think if you have the time to rest and all of that, it's the way it makes you look. That is really the hardest part mentally and just walking down the street and being like, oh, that person's sick. That's hard. Nobody wants to be stared at, and so for me that's cold capping was really helpful.

Emily Cave Boit (18:22):

Is cold capping, I don't know how, if Canada and the US are different or how it works, do you buy the cap? I know you mentioned Princeton burg or do they supply it or is it out of pocket?

Nina Koebel (18:33):

It's out of pocket. I don't know if that will ever change. I think in Europe they have funding for it and will pay for it for women who want it, it is hard. Not everybody wants to do it, and I get that it makes your chemotherapy days way longer. You have to keep those caps on for nine hours in some cases or stay after for longer if you're doing it there. But yes, it's out of pocket in Canada, unfortunately. So it is a bit of an expense. I was fortunate to be able to afford that, and it was important to me because I wanted to keep working and not go meet a client and look like I was ill. So yeah.

Emily Cave Boit (19:12):

So you

Nina Koebel (19:12):

Continued to work all through your treatment? Yeah.

Emily Cave Boit (19:15):

Wow, good for you.

Nina Koebel (19:16):

I had a lot of support. Support. I don't think I could have done it without obviously a supportive team and understanding people, but I was able to do it to the best of my ability.

Emily Cave Boit (19:29):

Wow, that is amazing. Okay, so now obviously two years, I since is, what's the exact term? Is it cancer free or is it cancer survivor? Some

Nina Koebel (19:45):

People say cancer free. More and more popular is no evidence of disease. I think the sneaky part about cancer is it hides, right? Sometimes people are diagnosed stage four because they just had no idea it was hiding there.

(20:01):

So that's why it's tricky. It can be microscopic and then suddenly it's growing and it's growing somewhere you didn't want it to grow. So they call it in the scientific circles, no evidence of disease. So when they scan your body or do any tests, they don't find any sign of it. That doesn't necessarily mean it's not there unfortunately because it's such a tricky disease. But right now I don't have evidence of disease to my knowledge.

Emily Cave Boit (20:26):

Looking back on, is there any, obviously being diagnosed at 32 to now, what do you look at other people in their early thirties and have these valid emotions of jealousy or grief or triggers of them not you weren't normal and you got robbed those years and obviously I always say my quote is, since losing Colby, you don't wish trauma upon anyone. However, navigating those very valid big emotions that you didn't have a normal twenties or thirties, how did you cope with that or how do you deal with those emotions?

Nina Koebel (21:19):

Yeah, I think the hardest part is when you're in the thick of treatment and you're really maybe feeling tired and not feeling like yourself and just watching everyone out there traveling or having fun and you can't do those things. It's hard when people would complain about really trivial things. That was hard. Just like, well, I wish I was stuck in an airport right now and not in the chemotherapy suite. It's hard to resonate sometimes with other people's problems once you go through something so big. Not that there's in validity to everyone's problems, and I still have days where I'm annoyed about stupid things, but now I laugh and I'm like, oh, look what I'm annoyed about today. So look how far I've come. Yeah, so definitely I think I'm better now because I'm looking and feeling more like myself again. But when I was regrowing my hair and it was curly and short and I hadn't maybe lost some of the weight that I gained during chemotherapy, things like that, it's hard just like you look in the mirror and you're like, I shouldn't look like this. I shouldn't be dealing with this. All of that is tough.

Emily Cave Boit (22:36):

Do you think it was triggering, seeing all the, obviously you're talking about people getting married and having kids, and I feel like it's really hard to show up to bridal showers or baby showers when you just don't feel yourself. I know that's something that I've struggled with and then you feel guilty, but then at the same time, I feel like it's the wave of emotions and grief and jealousy that I also think are really important to talk about. So people aren't like, oh, I'm a horrible person for feeling this way. It's so valid to feel all of that. Speaking of weddings, baby showers, you recently got engaged.

Nina Koebel (23:28):

Congrats.

Emily Cave Boit (23:28):

Yes, thank you. How's the wedding planning going?

Nina Koebel (23:30):

Not well. So we're going to get there. Actually, funny that you asked because last night I was like to film my fiance, I was like, we really need to get on this. It's going to creep up. We want to do it next year. I was like, we've got to get planning, we got to get moving. But I think been through so much. I think we just wanted to sit with the positive stuff and keep it slow and not rush into the next thing. But yeah, we got to get going on that.

Emily Cave Boit (23:55):

Do you any whether fears or, I know you were talking about your egg freezing the impacts of your future moving forward. So obviously tell us a little bit about freezing your eggs, that process and then the impacts once you get diagnosed with cancer or once you go through some type of trauma that changes your life forever. So those impacts that you maybe didn't expect or did expect since being diagnosed?

Nina Koebel (24:30):

Yeah, I guess I didn't realize when you're diagnosed with breast cancer, the most common type is hormone receptor positive cancer, which is what I have the most common. So it's progesterone positive, estrogen positive, and HER two negative. Those are the three I guess receptors that can be present in breast cancer. So there's good treatment options. I have a very treatable type of cancer, which I'm thankful for, but because it's dominated by estrogen, that really messes with fertility because part of treating the cancer is going into menopause.

(25:05):

And then also when you do chemotherapy, you don't always know how that's going to impact your egg supply. So they recommend everyone do fertility preservation before undergoing chemotherapy. So I did that. It's quite the process, so anyone who's ever been through IVF as they know, it's tough, it's grueling, but I got through it and I was fortunate. I got I think 26 mature eggs by the end of it. So really thankful for that. We at least have enough to have some options and we're looking at kind of embryo creation this summer, so that's coming next. That's exciting. But I think the hard part is it about it is do I carry the baby, which I can possibly do, or do you have a surrogate, right? Because in order to carry a baby, I have to take a break from some of my medications that keep the estrogen at bay

(25:57):

And bring myself out of menopause, which is quite a process. So I'd have to have my full body scanned before that just to make sure I don't see any areas of concern and then monitor you throughout your pregnancy. And then once that was done, I'd go back on the medication for the rest of its course. So I could do that or I could maybe wait until all of my treatment is done about a five year course of treatment and then see where I'm at and carry a baby myself or I could have a surrogate. So there's kind of three different options. So I'm still kind of in process of chatting with my oncologist about what she thinks would be best for me. I'm leaning towards carrying it one way or another, but I know that that does pose.

Emily Cave Boit (26:43):

Yeah,

Nina Koebel (26:44):

Now I don't want to say a huge risk, like the data on it's really promising, but there is a risk, right? With that estrogen coming back into my body,

Emily Cave Boit (26:52):

I had no idea that it does make sense though that you'd have to come out of

Nina Koebel (26:57):

Menopause

Emily Cave Boit (26:57):

And then carry, yeah, again, one of those things that education you don't know until looking back on. People always ask me this question and I weirdly love, I don't even think love is appropriate term, but love to ask other people this question too. Would you have liked to know as your younger self, would you have liked to know, Hey, I'm going to go through this, or would you have rather been naive and every day I fought back and forth, so

Nina Koebel (27:44):

There's no right or answer? That's a great question. I think I'd rather been naive. I wouldn't have wanted to live knowing this was coming. I think that would really impact my quality of life. I wish I knew more about breast cancer. I wish there was better awareness for young women about these are the risk factors, these are the different types of breast cancer. I wish all of that was different so that you had an ability to maybe find it sooner than I did. So I mean I'm still thankful I found it earlier than some do unfortunately. But I did have lymph node involvement and had I found it before that my recovery would've been a lot easier and what I had to go through might've been different. So the earlier you find it, the better. And I feel like as a society, we don't teach women enough about their health and what warning signs to look for, and we don't do anything proactive, and I would really like that to change in my lifetime.

Emily Cave Boit (28:49):

So speaking of that, obviously you've been very open on social media. Did you always want to do that right away or in the beginning, were you hesitant? What has been your journey of sharing your journey on social media?

Nina Koebel (29:03):

Yeah, I think it was therapeutic for me. I don't do well. I'm a pretty outgoing person for the most part. I like to be open. I like using social media. I just feel like everyone would have found it weirder if I just reused into myself and went missing. So I decided pretty early on that I was going to share it, be open, use it as literally a form of therapy and community building. And I'm thankful that I did is through that I met so many women who had gone through the same thing, that I could ask questions to a whole community of people who got it and if I needed to vent about something that was bothering me that no one else would understand. You had those people to go to and do that. And if I didn't put myself out there in that way, I wouldn't have had that. And I think I would've struggled a lot more than I ended up struggling. And I think I was able to pull through better because I had that network of people. And as you say, there are trolls out there, but for the most part, most people are good and most messages are positive and good.

Emily Cave Boit (30:06):

I feel like, yeah, having that community as much as your family or friends or partner can try and support, unless you literally are the person going through it, it is so hard to navigate and understand. And obviously as I said, and as you said, there are trolls, how have you learned? I always ask this to have you learned to not take it personally? Especially on the days that you're already down and you're like,

Nina Koebel (30:41):

Holy

Emily Cave Boit (30:41):

Crap.

Nina Koebel (30:42):

I mean, listen, if someone has to go to the trouble of making a fake account to come

Emily Cave Boit (30:48):

So true,

Nina Koebel (30:49):

Tell me that cancer should have killed me or something like that, then they're a sadder person than I am and I feel bad for them. And that's the way I look at it. How sad are you that you have to go out of your way to do something like this? So I feel free for those people and I hope they get the help they need really at the end of the day how you have to get through it. Yeah.

Emily Cave Boit (31:09):

You've been very, what I've loved is obviously not easy as what you were talking about when your hair was shorter and curly and you weren't used to that, but I love how you still shared your fashion and tried to, yeah, you always, yeah, I love how you adapted. You've always loved fashion, but integrated that into this part of your journey as well. What do you wish, last two questions here. What do you wish to tell family and friends of someone going through treatment? And then what do you wish to tell your younger self now?

Nina Koebel (31:54):

Yeah, I think for anyone who has someone going through it, don't try to connect too much if you haven't been through it yourself. I think a lot of people as humans, we want to relate. We want to compare it to something similar that they've been through. And I get that, but it's so different. So unless you've been through it or something life-threatening like that, completely life altering, you won't really be able to connect. And a lot of people who are going through cancer don't necessarily appreciate certain comparisons. It's hard to give examples. And at the end of the day, I think we all know everybody means well, but it's just we would prefer that someone's just there to listen. Like, Hey, sit there. Offer to come to chemotherapy with us if you're family or friend, and just be there. Let's talk about something other than cancer.

(32:49):

Let's talk about, I like to talk about Bravo shows, things that we enjoy, just get our mind off of it. I think that's my biggest piece of advice. Just sometimes people would try to relate in a way, I'm like, no, that's not the same. Let's talk about something else. Let's move on. And to my younger self would've now I'd be like, okay, here's how to do a self assessment on your breasts. Make sure you're doing that every month from the time you're basically a young teenager to now. So what feels normal? And if something is wrong and just I'm pretty outspoken and I'm not afraid to advocate for myself. So I would remind myself that that's a good quality and don't let anyone tell you it's not. Because I think if I wasn't like that, I might've been diagnosed at a later stage and that's a hard pill to swallow

Emily Cave Boit (33:39):

For sure. That makes total sense. I feel like, yeah, what you're saying for the family and friends aspect of sometimes not talking about the elephant in the room is really nice ice, you already can feel the pressure. So yeah, someone talking about random whatever does help quite a bit. But at the same time, if we want to talk about it, we'll talk about it. But I think not prying I think is really, really

Nina Koebel (34:14):

Important. Let us bring it up, right. I think it's always on our mind. Sometimes it's just nice to do something else. My best days when I was in treatment were days where we just went and lived as if I was just myself and I wasn't a cancer patient. That's what I needed the most.

Emily Cave Boit (34:30):

Is there anything that any of your nurses or doctors or even from the community that you met on Instagram that said to you or sent you a text? I have a few of those moments where someone said something that clicked and has stayed with me forever. Was there anything that someone said or did that gave you motivation or was like, you got it?

Nina Koebel (34:57):

There's definitely a whole multitude of things, but I think one of the key things that a few people in the community have always said, it's not just hair. I think if you pulled a lot of women, the losing your hair part is probably the hardest thing you go through when you're sick. And yeah, someone very early on said, it's okay to feel upset about it. It's not vain, it's not trivial, it's not just hair. It's your identity and it's what makes you look sick. And that's literally the hardest part of going through this whole ordeal. I often have joked like, cancer treatment wouldn't be so bad if it didn't physically alter you so much.

Emily Cave Boit (35:45):

That's actually really good. I like how they said it's not vain. I feel like, I mean, I can only imagine. I have not been in that that you could feel like it's hair, there's bigger issues die. You're like, I'm going through chemo. Why am I worried about my hair? But it's okay to feel that it's you to be sad about it. Exactly. I think that's actually a really good takeaway or for anyone going through cancer is obviously it's okay to feel those type of things in your not vain. I think that's actually really important. Yeah,

(36:28):

Talking about your younger self, do you feel like you have, obviously you had these traits of, since you were a young girl, and I'm sure your parents and your family and your fiance always saw that strength and resilience in you or the way that you have determination, do you feel like even more so now, I know for me a little bit you have become the person you see that line, you kind of become the person that you needed as not needed as a kid, but kind of become this role model that you kind of didn't expect you would be. At the same time. I get emotional when I see, I don't know if you do, but when I see photos of me as a little girl, I'm like, she had no idea. She had no idea. And I'm sure it sounds like you have such an amazing family and friend support system, but I'm sure for them too. I remember my sister, well after Colby passed away, she was like, I wish I was nicer to you growing up. How do I know what you were going to go through? I probably would've been nicer to you. So do you think your family and friends kind of feel the same or

Nina Koebel (37:56):

Yeah, I dunno. I think it was just a shock too to everyone when I was like, Hey, I have cancer. I don't think anyone ever expected those words to come out of my mouth. And I mean, my friends and family have been great, but I don't think that was on anyone's bingo card. And I'm sure some of them do have feelings like that, but I know no one ever doubted that I would be strong through it. And I

(38:27):

Know they always say, oh, you're so strong. You're so strong. And I hate that saying to be honest. Hate it in some ways. You know what I mean? It's not really am I strong or was, what else was I supposed to do? I wasn't that strong. I just showed up and put my arm out and they pumped me full of drugs. But yeah, so yeah, it's a weird saying, but at the same time, I prefer the word resilient, right? Have your ups and downs and it's okay to not be strong. I think it's pretty healthy to feel weak at times and cry and let those emotions out because if you don't, they're just going to explode.

Emily Cave Boit (39:05):

I do feel like I appreciate the word resilient more than strong, which is yeah, obviously what you are. But thank you so much for, honestly, I feel way more educated on breast cancer. Glad and the journey that you've been through and continue to go through. But one last question, do you watch Secret Lives and Mormon wives?

Nina Koebel (39:33):

I do. Yeah. I secret too.

Emily Cave Boit (39:36):

That show was wild when you said the Bravo shows, I was like, oh, she probably wishes that show was on during chemo. I

Nina Koebel (39:42):

Really into reality TV when I was sick. I always kind of liked it, but I think I just watched everything.

Emily Cave Boit (39:50):

Okay, yeah, I binged second season. I'm like, when is season three out? I have so many

Nina Koebel (39:58):

Emotions. I think I need to move to Utah and just go watch these people in the wild.

Emily Cave Boit (40:03):

Yeah. I also feel like it's wild to me that Colin actually said it. He was like, it's wild to me that no one's actually even really drinking and all this drama that's happening. I know. I'm like, are

Nina Koebel (40:14):

They ishly putting alcohol into those sodas because this behavior is unhinged? What's

Emily Cave Boit (40:20):

In that swig drinks?

Nina Koebel (40:22):

What's going on? What's in there?

Emily Cave Boit (40:24):

I know. Now I feel like I got to go to Utah now. I need to. I'm so invested. That's so funny. Yeah, when you said that, I was like, oh my gosh, I have to ask her.

Nina Koebel (40:31):

No, absolutely. Do you have a favorite? I mean, I don't know who my favorite is because one minute, I think it's one person I thought I to me, and now I'm like, do I still like it to me? I don't know if I like her anymore.

Emily Cave Boit (40:41):

I know. Or Jessie, I don't know. Yeah, it's switchers so fast. It's such a great show. But thank you so much

Nina Koebel (40:50):

For You're welcome. Thanks for having

Emily Cave Boit (40:51):

Coming on and sharing your journey. We're going to hook all your socials too, so if anyone has any questions or wants to follow your journey or knows someone also going through breast cancer, that they can reach out or ask any questions. I think social media is very powerful and amazing that way.

Nina Koebel (41:13):

Yeah, for sure. And it's honestly the biggest help to anyone going through it. Just reach out to someone in the community. I'm an open book. I will answer as much as I can.

Emily Cave Boit (41:23):

Wow. Thank you. I've loved watching your journey, so thanks for coming on and chatting. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. I don't know about you, but I walked away from that episode just feeling so much more educated and obviously just inspired by the way Nina has shared her journey and what she has been through. For anyone that has a loved one going through cancer or has gone through Cancer yourself, follow her on social media. I feel like, yeah, her story is just obviously so inspiring. So I hope you enjoyed this episode. As always would love if you liked or left a review. I always love reading your guys' reviews and getting your emails. So thank you so much for listening to this episode and go make somebody feel like a somebody this week.