[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Lord of the Rings lorecast.

[SPEAKER_00]: The show that explores the background of Tolkien's amazing world, from the very beginning.

[SPEAKER_00]: Have you ever had to do something that you didn't want to do?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, really didn't want to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: Something that had been looming on the horizon for what felt like forever.

[SPEAKER_00]: So long in the future that you hoped it would never come, but you kind of hoped that it would because you needed to accomplish it and get it done anyway.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then the day comes and you're there standing on the threshold of something that you know has to happen, but are not excited about it all.

[SPEAKER_00]: And by sheer will, you will yourself forward into that thing, that moment to take on the thing that you had been dreading.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's exactly where we are in the Hobbit as we start chapter twelve inside information.

[SPEAKER_00]: Bilbo is literally on the doorstep, literally on the precipice of a descent into darkness and fire and toxic fumes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he's about to find out that it's more than just those elemental dangerous things.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's also the manipulation of a dragon, a being more terrifying than anything he will ever encounter after this.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's attempted to steal from trolls and he survived a goblin cave, a riddle battle with gallum.

[SPEAKER_00]: He saved the dwarves from not only spiders, but also elves.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's been clever and lucky beyond, well, what most people would normally would be.

[SPEAKER_00]: And here he finally is on this precipice and about to deal with a dragon, a creature from a time well before the third age.

[SPEAKER_00]: A time when the world was dangerous, a time so far in the past that the only memories of these creatures come from fairy tales and stories you tell children [SPEAKER_00]: The people at Lake Town, while the younger ones, debated if the dragon was even real at all.

[SPEAKER_00]: And a hobbit from the Shire, who has never seen a beast like this before, and most of the people they know, and their ancestors had never had to deal with a dragon.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it feels just like a fairy tale, and yet Bilbo is here on this precipice.

[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing that this represents is the descent into darkness.

[SPEAKER_00]: We talked previously about the hero's journey.

[SPEAKER_00]: Bilbo is at that moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: He is at the darkest lowest level of the hero's journey.

[SPEAKER_00]: He is descending into [SPEAKER_00]: literal and figurative darkness.

[SPEAKER_00]: He is going to have to confront a danger that months ago would have been foreign to the Hobbit who lived in a comfy hole.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, just dealt with menial things around the Shire.

[SPEAKER_00]: Characters on heroes journeys don't descend into darkness not to be changed.

[SPEAKER_00]: They always come back changed.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is that moment for Bilbo.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what does he do and how does this play out?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's get into it.

[SPEAKER_00]: for a long time the dwarves stood in the dark before the door and debated.

[SPEAKER_00]: Until at last, Thorin spoke.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now is the time for our esteemed Mr.

Baggins, who has proved himself a good companion on our long road, and a hobbit full of courage and resource far exceeding his size.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if I may say so, possessed of good luck, [SPEAKER_00]: far exceeding the usual allowance.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now is the time for him to perform the service for which he was included in our company.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now is the time for him to earn his reward.

[SPEAKER_00]: reward is capitalized here and Tolkien does this on occasion where he will very randomly it feels capitalized certain words included in our company company is capitalized as well company and reward that's the whole reason he's here the company hired him in order to deal with the dragon ordered help get their treasure back and that's going to be his portion of the reward or is it [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, we know how this plays out.

[SPEAKER_00]: We know that Bilbo takes home a significant lump of treasure.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he's wealthy beyond any means that he really even was worried about.

[SPEAKER_00]: But is the reward actually the treasure?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that really why he's here?

[SPEAKER_00]: And hasn't he already been carrying his weight actually more than his weight?

[SPEAKER_00]: He's gotten them out of multiple situations.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's filled in for a lack of Gandalf being there to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yet, here he is for the thing they hired him to do, and he still has to do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: This little speech given by Thorne here makes sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a monumental occasion.

[SPEAKER_00]: And also, he needs to be very clear that this is your moment, Bilbo, you need to go do this.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's not why we're here.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's why you're here.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're the one who's quiet.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're the one who could sneak down there, unlike one of us, the dwarves who tend to make kind of a racket everywhere they go.

[SPEAKER_00]: But also, you have a magic ring.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he doesn't say that in the speech, but it's very clear that Bilbo is the only choice for this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Also, the narrator here kind of points out Thorin's style.

[SPEAKER_00]: It says you're familiar with Thorin's style on important occasions.

[SPEAKER_00]: He went on a good deal longer than this.

[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't hear everything that he said.

[SPEAKER_00]: That feels like a nod.

[SPEAKER_00]: to a formal, British sort of thing that, you know, Tolkien had probably been a part of multiple speeches, whether at university or in the military or wherever, where a steamed, important people went on for a very significant period of time because that's what you do when you're in that role.

[SPEAKER_00]: That sort of thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what that feels like to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the point is clear, and Bilba responds, if you mean you think it is my job to go into the secret passage first.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Thor and Thrain's son, Oak and Shield.

[SPEAKER_00]: May your beard grow ever longer.

[SPEAKER_00]: He said, crossly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Say so at once and have done.

[SPEAKER_00]: Basically, he's saying, speak plainly.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you're just, if you're putting all these words together to simply say, hey, Bilba, now's your time to shine, get to it, then just say it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But Bilbo goes on, and I'm going to quote a lot in this episode more than I usually do because each of these bits is important.

[SPEAKER_00]: He says, I might refuse.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have got you out of two messes already, which were hardly in the original bargain.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that I am, I think, already owed some reward lower case R.

[SPEAKER_00]: Third time pays for all as my father used to say, and somehow I don't think I shall refuse.

[SPEAKER_00]: Basically, he's saying, hey, let's all understand what's actually happening here.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to go do this.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what you hired me to do, and I'm a man of my word.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to go do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But let's not pretend that I haven't already pulled well more than my fair share for this reward so far.

[SPEAKER_00]: So let's just keep that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you know, in our minds.

[SPEAKER_00]: Also, he uses the phrase here, third time pays for all.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, this is not an idiom that I'm super familiar with, so I figured I'd point it out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe some of you are.

[SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes when I do this, people will point things out and they'll go, oh, it's interesting that Americans may not still use this because we in the UK still use this or whatever, which is cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's very, keep letting me know.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's very cool to understand how these phrases and things have either stayed or dropped out of popular use.

[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, [SPEAKER_00]: Third time pays for all, it's an idiom, and it means that after two unsuccessful attempts, the third try is likely to be successful.

[SPEAKER_00]: Similar to saying, third times the charm, which is something I'm more familiar with hearing, but still doesn't feel like it's very commonly spoken anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, there you go.

[SPEAKER_00]: Third time, third time does it, basically.

[SPEAKER_00]: He goes on and says, perhaps I have begun to trust my luck more than I used to in the old days.

[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, I think I will go and have a peep at once and get it over.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, who is coming with me?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think this is interesting because Bilbo is showing self-awareness here.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's showing that he is already different than who he was.

[SPEAKER_00]: And in this moment, he's terrified.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yet, he's more willing to trust his luck.

[SPEAKER_00]: Notice he doesn't say trust my wits, trust my physical ability or anything like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because, sure, he used his wits.

[SPEAKER_00]: He used his physical abilities.

[SPEAKER_00]: He used his tools at his disposal in order to deal with previous situations.

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: He wouldn't have gotten them out of those situations if it wasn't for his wits or his ability to deal with the situation physically in creative ways.

[SPEAKER_00]: But in this situation, he brings up luck again.

[SPEAKER_00]: Notice the theme of luck in a keep pointing this out, but it keeps coming up.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not just Bilbo's abilities.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's something about him being the right person for the right place at the right time and the way that that kind of fits in like a key in a lock.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like the world itself was designed for someone exactly who he is.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to say someone like him, but no, for him directly, him specifically.

[SPEAKER_00]: to fulfill this specific thing in this specific way in order to change the tide of history.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's all right here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, he asks for some friends or somebody to come along with him.

[SPEAKER_00]: And first, you might think, Philly or Killy, maybe they're going to come because they're the younger dwarves.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're a little bit more willing to go do things.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've seen them step out multiple times to take responsibility for the things that the older dwarves may be wearing as capable at or willing to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: But no.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not the young ones, it's balling.

[SPEAKER_00]: Ballon decides to come with him as the lookout man.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're told that he is rather fond of the Hobbit, and he would come at least part of the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Close enough that if you need to call for help, I'll be able to hear you, but not all the way down the hallway.

[SPEAKER_00]: Of course he doesn't want to make a ruckus, create some noise, ruin what Bilbo is about to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: But also, notice that Ballon has stepped up multiple times from the very beginning in order to help Bilbo.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's filling in as kind of like a fatherly figure for Bilba, which is appropriate.

[SPEAKER_00]: Bilba's parents drowned.

[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't have a father.

[SPEAKER_00]: Gandalf would be the next closest thing to something like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But Gandalf isn't here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Ballon.

[SPEAKER_00]: is the fatherly figure for Bilbo.

[SPEAKER_00]: And unlike Gandalf, he's wise in the way of dwarves by being a dwarf who's been around for a long time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, Gandalf would know a lot about dwarves, but Gandalf isn't a dwarf.

[SPEAKER_00]: All in is.

[SPEAKER_00]: And delving into a deep, dark mountain that dwarves made through a secret passage that dwarves made in order to deal with a dragon that the dwarves have dealt with before feels like a very dwarven thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then we get this passage, which I find particularly interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: The most that can be said for the dwarves is this.

[SPEAKER_00]: They intended to pay Bilbo really handsomely for his services.

[SPEAKER_00]: They had brought him to do a nasty job for them, and they did not mind the poor little fellow doing it if he would.

[SPEAKER_00]: But they would all have done their best to get him out of trouble, if he got into it.

[SPEAKER_00]: As they did in the case of the trolls at the beginning, or their adventures before they had any particular reason for being grateful to him.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're being reminded here a little bit about the nature of the dwarves in their terms.

[SPEAKER_00]: They, a hundred percent, are planning to pay bill before his service.

[SPEAKER_00]: And on top of that, if him doing what he needs to do, put him in danger, there are a hundred percent ready to run to his protection, to his defense, to save him from that danger.

[SPEAKER_00]: They are not afraid to confront a dragon if they need to.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if they don't have to, that would be better.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it continues.

[SPEAKER_00]: It says there it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Dwarves are not heroes, but calculating folk with a great idea of the value of money.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some are tricky and treacherous and pretty bad lots.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some are not.

[SPEAKER_00]: But our decent enough people like Thorne and Company, if you don't expect too much.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, if you were to take out the part specifically about money, you could probably apply this to any people group.

[SPEAKER_00]: Think of it this way.

[SPEAKER_00]: The men and women of Lake Town are not heroes but calculating folk.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some are tricky and treacherous and pretty bad lots but some are not and are decent enough people.

[SPEAKER_00]: You could probably say that about anybody.

[SPEAKER_00]: The elves of Merquwood.

[SPEAKER_00]: The people of Gondor.

[SPEAKER_00]: The hobbits of the Shire.

[SPEAKER_00]: For the most part, they're not heroes.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're good or bad people just like everyone is.

[SPEAKER_00]: and they care about certain things.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then you probably should just kind of expect them to be the kinds of people that they are, because people are people.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can apply that to everyone.

[SPEAKER_00]: But what this is really reinforcing is that dwarves are not heroes.

[SPEAKER_00]: None of them were prepared to go confront a dragon and fight it to the death, like Turin, for example.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then again, there's not many people who are heroes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And even those who are heroes often don't see themselves in that way until the moment comes where they have to step up and do something like Bilbo.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, the next paragraph tells us that the stars were coming out behind him in a pale sky, barred with black, when the hobbit crept through the enchanted door and stole into the mountain.

[SPEAKER_00]: So a few things here.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's pointing out that the stars are coming out.

[SPEAKER_00]: The stars are a reminder, at least to those of us who know.

[SPEAKER_00]: of the Valar.

[SPEAKER_00]: And specifically, the blessing of light in the darkness, the stars are beautiful to the elves.

[SPEAKER_00]: And even though the dwarves are not elves, and Bilbo's not an elf, the stars are a blessing on a dark night.

[SPEAKER_00]: They help to illuminate the world.

[SPEAKER_00]: Also the words crept and stole, specifically, stole into the mountain.

[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't say snuck into the mountain, stole into the mountain.

[SPEAKER_00]: These are words that you would use for a burglar, a burglar creeps and a burglar steals.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then we're reminded there was no goblin entrance or rough wood elves cave.

[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't like something that we've seen before.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a dwarven passageway.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a straight as a ruler, smooth, floored and smooth sided.

[SPEAKER_00]: It went gently down at a never varying slope to some distance in the darkness below.

[SPEAKER_00]: This passageway was sculpted with the precision of the dwarves.

[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't a natural cave that has been redecorated or maybe the roots underneath have been regrown in certain ways the way maybe the elves would set something up to kind of blend in with nature.

[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't a goblin cave that's full of stench and filth and just kind of roughly carved out of this place or another in order to create passages from one place to another.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a very strategically designed and expertly designed [SPEAKER_00]: path.

[SPEAKER_00]: It slopes down in a way that he has not actually experienced before, but the dwarves would be very, very familiar with.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I like this next part.

[SPEAKER_00]: Ballon Bade's Bilbo good luck.

[SPEAKER_00]: Basically, goodbye, he stands there in a fate outline of the door.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yet Bilbo as he continues down, can still see the little echoes of the whispers from others outside as if the passageway is carrying their voices further than you would expect.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then, Bobo's lips on his ring.

[SPEAKER_00]: He knows that he's in danger, and the echoes of the voices carrying down this hallway make him feel nervous.

[SPEAKER_00]: He plans to make no sounds, and even their whispers at the top seem louder than he would want.

[SPEAKER_00]: He puts on the ring, and he creeps down noiselessly into the dark.

[SPEAKER_00]: And now we finally get a glimpse of his real feelings here.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've kind of been dancing around it.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's willing to go.

[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't want to, but he's willing to go.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing what he needs to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's being brave about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it finally comes out.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was trembling with fear, but his little face was set in grim.

[SPEAKER_00]: What a wonderful comparison.

[SPEAKER_00]: His body is afraid, but his mind is willing him forward with a grim expression on his face.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's already bearing the weight and the fear of what is about to come.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're reminded here that he's a very different hobbit from the one that left back end long ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: He hadn't had a pocket handkerchief for ages.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then we get the transition from a pocket handkerchief he would keep on his body in a pocket or wherever to his dagger in his sheath.

[SPEAKER_00]: which he loosens and makes sure that it's ready.

[SPEAKER_00]: In case he needs it now, what he's going to do with a dagger against a dragon who knows.

[SPEAKER_00]: But there's some sense of safety, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: You have something there to help you in a moment of danger, and that's all you've got.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then we get this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Quote, now you are in for it at last, Bilbo Baggins.

[SPEAKER_00]: He said to himself, you went and put your foot right in it that night at the party and now you have got to pull it out and pay for it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Dear me, what a fool I was and am said the least tookish part of him.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have absolutely no use for dragon guarded treasure and the whole lot could stay here forever.

[SPEAKER_00]: If only I could wake up and find this beastly tunnel was my own front hall at home.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's right on the precipice of the most dangerous thing he's ever done and now he's lamenting the fact that he's even there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Why did I come?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't need this treasure.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a part of this.

[SPEAKER_00]: What am I even doing here?

[SPEAKER_00]: but he keeps going.

[SPEAKER_00]: He continues down until the area that he came out of the doorway.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's completely faded away.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's so far back up the tunnel that he can't even see it anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're given this line.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was all together alone.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I've discussed this before.

[SPEAKER_00]: Bilbo is always alone.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's alone because he's different and distinct from everyone else in the group.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's alone because there are moments where he acts like the parent of the group and everyone else feels like a child.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's alone in that sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: But in this sense, he is finally alone alone.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now you might say he was alone when the wood elves had captured the rest of the dwarves, and that's true, but yet he was surrounded by people still.

[SPEAKER_00]: In this very moment, there is nobody close to him at all, and there is danger lurking just around the next bend.

[SPEAKER_00]: Soon he thought it was beginning to feel warm.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that a kind of a glow I seem to see coming right ahead down there?

[SPEAKER_00]: He thought he starts to notice the things that he didn't expect.

[SPEAKER_00]: He sees a red light steadily getting redder and redder.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we've talked about this before as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: Red lights almost always mean fire.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they almost always mean danger or something unknown, something mysterious.

[SPEAKER_00]: In the case of the elves, lighting their red fires in the forest, it was mysterious.

[SPEAKER_00]: How are these elves having this party in and such a dangerous forest?

[SPEAKER_00]: How does that even make sense?

[SPEAKER_00]: And then disappears, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's mysterious.

[SPEAKER_00]: The goblins with their red fire.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was danger.

[SPEAKER_00]: many, many times when fire is described as red.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a good sign.

[SPEAKER_00]: He also notices that it becomes undoubtedly hot in the tunnel.

[SPEAKER_00]: They are on the precipice of winter.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is moving through autumn.

[SPEAKER_00]: The outside air is getting cooler and cooler.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yet down here in this tunnel where you would expect the world to be cold.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is getting hotter.

[SPEAKER_00]: Whispers of vapor flowed it up and passed him and he began to sweat.

[SPEAKER_00]: The sound, too, began to throb in his ears, a sort of bubbling like the noise of a large pot galloping on the fire, mixed with a rumble as of a gigantic Tomcat purring.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's hearing the breathing or the snoring of a dragon.

[SPEAKER_00]: A creature who's entire body is probably bigger than Bagend.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, we discussed this on one of the bones episodes recently about the actual size of Smalg and how big he may actually be.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you want to kind of a briefing on that, go check that out.

[SPEAKER_00]: And oh, and by the way, the other thing that we're talking about in the bones episode this week is the descent into these dark places, the descent into the underworld.

[SPEAKER_00]: And how that shows up, not out in mythology and fairy tales.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that gigantic Tomcat purring is kind of an interesting way to describe the sound, not just because of the way it sounds.

[SPEAKER_00]: But also, a Tomcat is a mischievous creature.

[SPEAKER_00]: Cats don't follow instructions like dogs do.

[SPEAKER_00]: They do what they want.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then they always seem to be conniving or planning something or hunting something.

[SPEAKER_00]: This analogy works for more than one reason, and then we're told that it was unmistakable that this was some vast animal snoring in its sleep down there in the red glow in front of him.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so Bilbo stops, and we're told specifically going on from there was the bravest thing he ever did.

[SPEAKER_00]: This took the most will, the most self-control of anything that he'd ever accomplished.

[SPEAKER_00]: He fought the real battle in the tunnel alone before he ever saw the vast danger that lay in weight.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that there's something so true about this statement.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's something so human about this.

[SPEAKER_00]: The greatest difficulties we will ever face.

[SPEAKER_00]: We will ever surmount.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll not be external.

[SPEAKER_00]: They will be ourselves.

[SPEAKER_00]: By the time you're in a dangerous situation and it comes upon you, you're reacting just naturally the way you would react.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the nature of fight or flight.

[SPEAKER_00]: Something terrible happens and you respond.

[SPEAKER_00]: You attack, you run away, you respond for the danger for somebody else to help out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever it is, it happens at a moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to think about it and your body will pick a thing and it will do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: In a moment like this, there is no fight or flight.

[SPEAKER_00]: There is a creeping sense of danger ahead.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Bilbo's only choices are to continue going or to go back.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if he goes back, he admits to himself and everyone else in the party.

[SPEAKER_00]: that he's not capable, that he is a coward, and he lets everyone including himself down, but if he continues forward, that might be his life.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is the most dangerous thing he will ever have to do, and the biggest difficulty he will ever serve out.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it all comes from inside of him.

[SPEAKER_00]: He knows the danger that lies ahead, and yet he goes on.

[SPEAKER_00]: At any rate, after a short halt, go on he did.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you can picture him coming to the end of the tunnel and opening of much the same size and shape as the door above.

[SPEAKER_00]: Through it peeps the Hobbit's little head.

[SPEAKER_00]: Before him lies the great bottom-most-seller or dungeon hall of the ancient dwarves, right at the mountain's foot.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is almost dark so that its vastness can only be dimly guessed, but rising from the near side of the rocky floor.

[SPEAKER_00]: There is a great glow.

[SPEAKER_00]: The glow of smoke.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for continuing to be here.

[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you're enjoying the show.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is getting super exciting as we get closer and closer to the end, the big climax of the Hobbit.

[SPEAKER_00]: And welcome to our newest patrons, Jonathan W.

Madison W.

Oli and Tony.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for your support.

[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you're enjoying your ad free episodes or your bonus episodes if you're signed up on that tier.

[SPEAKER_00]: Also, I have to shout out all of our VIP patrons.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's see if I can't nail all their names and get them all correct.

[SPEAKER_00]: Here we go.

[SPEAKER_00]: A game music lover, Eldarion was right, Apollo, a Varyl, as a Razzle, Barney D, Captain Legolas Turner, Daniel Knightweaver, David S, Divine Madman, Folkram, Gimliabric, Ginger Fury, who on is my hero, Jezor, Capena, Lori B, Mason Weathertop, Mack.

[SPEAKER_00]: Mac, Matt, I messed that one up.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're not Mac, you're Matt.

[SPEAKER_00]: Party snacks, Philip M, Richard J, Rosie Rose, single end to looking for endwives, the best display in TJT.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for your support.

[SPEAKER_00]: We also got a new review that showed up on Apple Podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: This one is from Boramir is really a good guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.

[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.

[SPEAKER_00]: Boramir is really a good guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: He just kind of, you know, got manipulated by an evil ring and was divided in a little bit of his intent because of the efforts of his father, but [SPEAKER_00]: Deep down, or mirrors a good guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.

[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, this says the last alliance of LOTR fans, five stars.

[SPEAKER_00]: This podcast has helped me so much getting through work and listening to something while I'm driving Tom does an amazing job of unpacking the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was listening to one of the Hobbit episodes and he says that Tolkien let us know the ending, the Battle of the Five Armies.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think, if you haven't mentioned it yet, that's from the Iliad.

[SPEAKER_00]: Letting us know what will happen, but we are there yet.

[SPEAKER_00]: For example, we know Achilles will kill Hector.

[SPEAKER_00]: Keep up the good work, Tom.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, he's pulling from mythologies.

[SPEAKER_00]: When he does the whole like giving away the ending thing, [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, because those stories were so well-known by the people who were telling them that they retell them over and over and over again, that they just assumed everybody knew the ending.

[SPEAKER_00]: The point of the story wasn't the ending, the point of the story was the journey and the interesting way in which you're telling the story.

[SPEAKER_00]: We flip it around.

[SPEAKER_00]: Today, it's all about, oh, don't spoil the ending of the movie that's coming out because then I won't have to go see it and I'll be upset.

[SPEAKER_00]: But ultimately, and studies have shown this, for the majority of people knowing the ending doesn't actually ruin the story.

[SPEAKER_00]: It can be fun to discover that story in the midst of having the story told to you or watching a movie.

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: Don't get me wrong.

[SPEAKER_00]: But emotionally turns out that even when people know the endings, they don't then judge the story as any less effective or good on averages.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a bold statement, but there is some evidence for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, thank you for taking the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Boramir is a really good guy to leave this review.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you to everybody else for supporting the show.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to get into it because we're going to be talking about in the bonus episode this week.

[SPEAKER_00]: Other descents into underworlds and other influences for this type of story and the thing that Bilbo's doing right here.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm super excited for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for being here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Have a wonderful rest of your week.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I will see you next time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening to the Lord of the Rings lorecast.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to learn more about other fantasy worlds, check out my other podcasts.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Elder Scrolls lorecast, The Witcher lorecast, and more at robotsradio.net.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to reach out, I'd love to hear from you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Send me a note on Twitter at robots underscore radio, or join our amazing community on the robots radio discord.

[SPEAKER_00]: There are links in the show notes, or just search robotsradio discord, or find the link on robotsradio.net.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll see you next time.