Welcome back to two doting dads.

My name is Mattie J.

And I'm Ash and this is a podcast all about parenting.

Is the good, it is the bad, and they're relatable and we do not give advice.

You're very good at that.

You should do the introt more often.

Nah, this is the best of because Matt and I are currently wear at the.

Moment, we actually de toured.

We've been doing warmer countries.

We decided to jump on a ship.

We are circumnavigating Antarctica.

We just wanted to mix it up.

Currently looking at the King penguins?

Is that what that was?

Gotcha?

In this episode, we talk about Matt's kink.

Well is new kink, but I've.

Always had a King Okay, I've had it from the young age.

I can't remember life without this kink.

If I'm being honest, that's good for you and kinks that I have pregnant women and feet.

After Matt's kink, we talk.

About you and an incident that you've held on to.

You haven't been able to overcome it since what were you like ten?

No, I was like five when this happened.

We're five, so young.

I got the blame.

I really didn't.

I couldn't stand up for myself as the youngest in the family, but a little pussy.

So we did get a confession and a little wuss.

We also did get him in.

We did stand up for yourself.

We did get a confession from my sister and her side of the story along the way as well.

Now we talk about parenting lies quite a bit, and one that blew up.

I dare say it was the most popular lie we have ever told in the entire two and a half years of doing this podcast.

Was a lie from my mum.

Oh yes, Nana Johnson's surprise package.

So you'll have to tune in and listen to that one.

Matt and we also wanted to flag that in this episode we talked to a child psychologist, Victoria, who specializes in body autonomy.

We wanted to mention that it is confronting for some listeners, so just be mindful before you get into this episode.

Shall we let's do it.

This might sound weird, but I don't have a kink with pregnant women.

Oh yeah, you don't pick girl.

I find Laura at the moment, she's popping a lot more than the previous pregnancy is that the wait normally works.

She also doesn't answer my calls and.

She's been avoiding you.

Bellies popped like I think with Marley, she didn't pop right until the final trimester.

Whereas now that belly's out and Laura's like, oh, I just feels so fat.

I hate it, And I'm like.

Damn girl, I'm like, oh, ring that belly, I love it.

Get the vitamin E cream out and rather it's just like, you know, it helps the trench marks right.

In there, man, deep in.

There, you know, like all over it.

Just the belly, just a belly.

Feet, the feet, Nah, that Laura has dry feet.

I'm not a foot guy, if I'm honest.

The hands of the legs.

Okay, well, I'm gonna I look forward to lubing Laura luber ride with a vitamin E cream or some baby oil, slip and slider, I find horse.

Look, what do you mean.

Gymnastics and there's that thing they get you get all handsy and they they fling their legs around.

That's a I'm going to ride Laura like a pommeh.

Yeah, you're ready, She's going to be the apparatus.

I hope she's ready.

She would be ready.

There is no other moment when I find Laura more attractive than when she's pregnant.

You've got to kink my guy.

Let me get my list of pregnant women up here.

I've got a folder.

I just I don't know, it's beautiful.

Keep my hands off that.

I can't wait for my for you page to just be pregant.

Please.

I hate to always flash back, but I can.

I just say, don't you dare apologize for hating a flashback because I love them.

I love Let's go right back.

How old?

Also about oscars age, I lived in Narrabeen in what they call an asbestos house.

It's funny because I live in asbestos house now, so I've gone full circle.

They say, close the circle.

Here we are.

And my dad's quite an avid surfer.

And when we were kids, we were all coming back from somewhere.

I think it was like it must have been a weekend, because no one was working, no one was at school, we had one family car.

We went very.

Well off, and I remember we did a surf check on the way home from wherever we were were, and I recall Dad being like, it's good, got to get these kids home.

So that he can he can go.

So we drove home.

It had quite a long driveway out the side of the house that on the left side was a fence that was like it just like a timber fence, and it's it was not the pretty side of the tim offence, you know, there's an ugly side.

It was the younger side.

Because we're poor, someone else payer defense, okay, And.

I recall us driving up the driveway and getting out.

Of the car and can I will say it is quite a flex to have a defense, to have defence on the nice side.

Yeah, what's your offense situation?

It's definitely nice.

You're a nice guy.

Look, it is the nice side on both.

Sides of the house.

Yeah, oh wow, I must be very nice.

So I don't know what it feels to relate to your story, but I just I can't.

No, I didn't get it, and I didn't get it to.

Me feel poor.

Anyway, So we've gone up.

I'm on the passenger side behind mum in my chair.

Anyway, so we've all gotten out of the car and I was so so so young, So there's like the memory is not completely clear what happens, but anyway, we've all gotten out of the car.

Dad's put his board in the car and gone to reverse back down the driveway.

And I don't know if you recall, on the poor side of the fence is where the posts are to keep the structural integrity of said fence, and the back door on the passenger side, which was my side, had been slightly left open, and he had reversed down the driveway, hence ripping the car door off.

Oh yeah, expensive exercise.

So think about this.

Think a four door car with three doors and a big hole where the fourth door is meant and how is the fence fence well built?

The poor side the rich person that I was like, oh my rich side of the face that was perfectly fine from what I recall, But it did.

It did rip the car door clean off.

However, my as you can imagine, my dad was ropeable because there's two things that have happened here.

He's missed the serve, which is probably the thing he was most upset about in the end, and the car is missing a door, our only car that we have.

That dad's source of getting to work, and I think at the time he had like three jobs because he worked in sales.

This time Okay, So I apologize.

So this was not this is pre sales rep daze.

No need to yell, Okay, I won't.

I refuse not to.

He had a couple of different jobs in different areas.

But anyway, he was really ropeable about and he was rovable about it for years.

It was the sort of thing where they bring it back up all the time.

He can, I just can I just confirm for one second?

Yes, was it your fault?

Like, was it were you at the house.

I'm imagining right now that everything's happening really quickly.

Your dad's like, get out of the fucking car, gotta go, gotta go.

Maybe it'll happen too quick.

You didn't get a chance.

You're grade two, you're grade too, you're like seven.

Yeah, so it was on my side, my door, hence my fault.

Okay, so I've no, no, no, no, let me finish the story please and we can ask questions.

So it was I caught the blame because that's my door.

That's unfair.

It's not unfair.

I don't think it's unfair to It's an assumption, that's what that is, whether it's unfair or not, he assumed.

He assumed they all assumed.

Everyone's assumed.

If you're the driver, you check the doors before you drive.

For years, it was brought up, always, always brought up, for so long, come on, thank you, let go now.

All the way until teenage years, it was continually brought up to be It went from being like how pissed off they were about it and how much it cost them in the end to it being like an embarrassing story like it to people, ruin the family just did this somewhere around my sixteenth birthday.

You didn't ruin the family, ashpay You chose to ignore that.

It's again, oh I missed it around my sixteenth birthday.

An admission of someone admitted to actually doing it.

My sister.

So back then, my sister has opened the door, older got out on that side with me, left the door open.

Wow, it ripped off.

She pointed the finger at me.

Fifteen years or something, no, no, no, long I say twelve years something like that.

Ten twelve years had gone by her keeping her mouth shut, enjoying me being brought up for years and years.

So she just stood there watching you get beaten, pretty smacked up early hahood.

Where she has finally said it was me.

What was the trigger point for her admitting I can't remember.

I just the guilt was too much.

I think that the guilt got to her revenge.

Yeah, and it might have got to the point where.

You would hold onto that to your deathbed.

Really, yeah, like you would expect, like if she was about to go, she'd be.

Like, by the way the guard door was met.

Yeah, fully what happened?

I was unsure, like what why she wanted to clear a conscience?

I'm not sure.

I mean, we're still talking.

This is fifteen years ago that she cleared a conscience.

And I was like, I remember for I remember for so long it was like I because the car was fucking ruined pretty much like it was an old car anyway, and it was like I was always the kid in the family who ruined the car.

Sister could never do any wrong.

It shaped the rest of my childhood, I reckon because it was like, I remember when you fucked.

The car up, your piece of shit.

Shit.

Not that my parents spoke to me like that.

Mum might have.

Yeah, wow, but yeah, for so long, and my sister would do the they're like you remember that, and then eventually, like I said, how's your relationship now with your sister.

That's great.

We're great.

We're great friends until I get it back eventually.

But yeah, I was.

It's a scarring moment, but I was the precious item that I had ruined my parents.

I'm so sorry you had to experience that.

It's like those stories of the person who was like incorrectly charged with murder and they spent the whole life in prison.

That's exactly how I felt.

I felt like I was incarcerated an innocent man.

Yes, I felt like if it was in the move The Hurricane.

No, okay, it's let me just give you the just really quick.

It's quite a long about a car doll that gets broken.

It's about a car door that gets right.

It's about a boxer who it's framed for a murder a long time ago.

And there was a really famous song called The Hurricane.

To me right now, I'm getting nothing but one word screaming into my vision.

What do you mean, Hollywood movie?

Imagine I am making a blockbuster movie out of me ruining the case.

This is this has got I mean, I think screenwriters will be salivating right now.

Years I lived in shame.

I lived, I was suppressed years in my own family home.

You betrayed.

I was betrayed by your own legend blood.

I have never been able to trust every again, anyone, anyone.

Wow, the side of the car door like it inspiral, sends me spiraling.

Yeah, every time you show a car door flashbacks.

Yeah.

Now, I'm like, every every time you see a anytime someone weirs about me slamming their door, I'm.

Like, well, you've got to be sure.

You got to be careful, and you got.

To be.

Moving right along.

Ash, we're going into parenting lies.

Dare you move me along?

Tell me loud, tell me little loud?

What have you got for me?

A big go my mom.

I don't know where she is, by the way.

She lost her in the house again.

She was she can't get that fust She was here before he was had a recording because I was going to get her to tell her lie, but then she fucking disappeared.

I don't know where she is.

L a jinx someone thing we should fucky.

She told me this lie from when we were younger.

Okay, it was a very clever line.

I said.

Firstly, I was offended, I was upset, and then I said, actually no, that's I should commend you for this great lie.

She took you how long to figure this out?

Well?

I only realized when she told me went like today, it was a few days ago because she heard we're talking about parenting lies.

And she was like, I got a life for here, your little piece of shit.

And I said, what do you mean.

When we were younger, we had a PlayStation one Vintage respect.

We loved it.

What was it?

Grand Charismo?

Ah?

Why do I have an direction for those of you who don't know?

It's a car racing game?

Well than just that Domad.

Sorry, you're right, You're right.

And what she used to do because we were quite obsessed with the PlayStation when we first got it.

No, this is genius.

She told us that it was a rental.

She said that the PlayStation it is not It is not our PlayStation.

She's rented it from Video Easy.

Ah, that is good, that is top shelf oarenting from Elie.

And so we used to get the PlayStation in school holidays.

Only sometimes sometimes Mom would be like on the weekend, she'd be like, I want to do the shop.

It's going to I'm going to rent out of PlayStations in the back.

Of the car, so we would get it and then on the Sunday or the end of the holidays, she'd be like, I've got to return the PlayStation back to the shop because on the rental and we were like, oh, give me over one more week, and she'd be like, no, I can't, it's got to go back.

It's booked out.

I underestimated your mother.

That is good stuff, very.

Good, and so I only now realized that we in fact owned outright that PlayStation.

Very owned PlayStation, and you thought it was so I can picture you at school being like, oh, I'm wait for school holidays, Mum's going to rent the PlayStation and all your friends that own the PlayStation, like.

You did a post in the Facebook group.

It was off the back of a twenty six year old childcare worker, Joshua Dale Brown, who's been charged of sexual abuse of children whilst in daycare.

Absolutely horrific and so let's wanted to know as parents, what information can we have to be more mindful of the topic, more proactive.

Now it is confronting and it's really easy to avoid the topic altogether.

But we thought it was a great suggestion from Celeste, so we thought we will reach out to an expert, so.

We reached out to Victoria.

She runs this Safe Kids project, which is a handle on Instagram.

She's a registered psychologist based in New Zealand who specializes working with children and provides sexual abuse and sexual harm prevention therapy.

Victoria, I do have to say a very big thank you.

You are so welcome.

I was so delighted to be asked to come on.

I'm so passionate about prevention work, so any opportunity to speak about this, and she in my mession, I'm here.

I feel like the conversations we're about to have, I feel like they should be prioritized as much as like a first aid course for parents.

But for whatever reason, I think is one of these things that it's such a tricky subject that it's easy for parents to completely avoid it.

So I know that so many people are going to benefit from this chat.

Yeah, to start off, at what age do you start having conversations with your children about consent and body autonomy?

Such a great question, and I do believe that a lot of parents try and put their head in the sand.

And not talk about it purely.

Like there's a lot of reasons, but I do believe one of the main reasons is that growing up, we never had these conversations.

And it's not that it was the fault of our parents that a lot of the time they didn't know how to share this education with us.

So it is a really new way of working, and it's you're right, it's like just as important as first date.

I think it's just as important as we teach our children to swim or cross the road.

Teaching them about their body is so so important and how to keep it safe.

So my daughter is for and my son is coming up to and I've been teaching them about body safety education since they were born, but more specifically once they could sort of comprehend what I spoke about and what I talked about.

So for my daughter, from two, she was able to label her body correctly, She was able to let me know if she wanted physical content like a high or not.

She was able to say no to me and know that it will be respected.

So I would say anywhere from like one and a half to two is a really good age to actually start introducing to your child that their body belongs to them and they get to make choices that feel in.

Terms of language and like sorry, This is a really dumb question, but you know, I know that people are so particular about certain words are good to use and some are bad to use.

Do you say what they.

Are in terms of vagina penis or do you have to give other words to kids at that age?

Yes, so at that age I recommend using anatomically correct.

Labels, which are what our body is called.

So I often say to Pearance, if you call a knee a knee and knows and knows, why do you call evolver a fanny or a penis a willie?

Like it instantly tells your child that that's not a part of your body you're allowed to talk about, or that's not something we're comfortable talking.

About because we instantly give it a nickname.

And so anatomically correct labels for body parts is like number one when it comes to body safety education because it creates a really open dialogue with your child for them to know that those parts of their body are normal, and if there were any concerns, they've got the language to talk to you about it.

And from a prevention standpoint, there's been some research done with convicted sexual offenders towards children, and they have said one of the biggest deterrence to harming a child is if they have the correct anatomical language for their body, because it instantly says to them that child's having conversations at home, or that child has parents that are willing to talk about their body.

That's not somebody are going to target.

So it's really really like powerful from a prevention standpoint.

On the other side of something does happen to your child, it's really important that they have the correct language to be able to tell you about it.

I've worked with multiple cases where children haven't had the correct terms, and what that means is from a legal standpoint, it can actually be really difficult to move things along the legal system.

So we want to give children the language about their body to normalize it and reduce any shame or stigma.

And also that really helps with prevention.

In terms of consent, it's a tricky one because this morning, for example, I was trying to brush my daughter's hair Marley's six Lollos four And what they'll say when they don't want to have their hair brush is my body, my choice, no, And then obviously I want to acknowledge that, but at the same time I need to brush their hair.

It's a bit of a non negotiable.

So how do you explain when and isn't appropriate to have those boundaries crossed?

Amazing So nice to hear those conversations coming from young children that they know their body belongs to them.

That's amazing.

So I have some rules around body autonomy and that my child.

My children get to make choices for their body all of the time, except in three situations.

The first is how, second is hygiene, and the third is safety.

So in those situations it is my role as a parent to put a limit in and say, actually, this is what's happening.

So that sounds like the case for hair brushing, and I feel that one to my coore.

My daughter who's full is here is like these huge ringlets and she goes to a forest kindy and so she goes to kindy and she.

Just comes home.

Its like lee sticks in late bar.

So I really I feel this because we have a role in our house that we have to have her hair up for kindy.

So the way that I recommend talking to your child when you get to a body autonomy limit is to be really clear and the first thing is telling them what you're doing so I'm brushing your hair right now.

Why you're doing it?

You need to do it otherwise it's going to get into a really big tangle and we might have to cut your hair really short.

I'm not sure.

Give black examples, and then you ask for some clarification.

So you might be like, do you have any questions?

See if they want to ask, and then what I recommend doing.

So being really.

Clear is the first part on what you're doing, and then the second part is provide opportunities for control.

So in those situations where they don't have a choice or they don't have control over what's happening to their body, allow them opportunities like what color hair brush do you want to use?

Do you want to brush your hair first?

And then dad will do it second.

Like provide little moments in there.

Is there a favorite toy you want to hold?

Or is there something that you can be doing while they do your hair, So moments where they feel in control of a situation that actually they don't get a choice over.

For me at home, we might playfully smack mum on the bottom or you know the key.

They think it's hilarious, but is that something that's inappropriate or.

I wouldn't say it's inappropriate.

I think it's really important for children to see healthy relationships between parents.

But maybe what you could do in there is every now and again weave in some modeling of consent, like to your wife or partner, Hey, like I really want to give your smack on the bum?

Is that okay with you?

You know, like make it like a little bit playful so the children can see that aspect of consent.

Well, maybe you do it and then you say, hey, is this something that you find fun or is this like enjoyable so that the children are seeing that as well.

But I think if it's really lighthearted and it brings joy, there's nothing wrong.

One thing that I've noticed is like, you know that game of like, dude, he's going to smoke in the bottom and I'll chase the kids around.

And then I've seen Marley interact with her cousins and then they'll play that same game with other cousins.

Obviously, Marley, from her perspective, it's completely harmless.

But then I'm thinking in my head like, oh my gosh, am I am I putting these games in place which are going to be like inappropriate with other kids.

Should I be mindful of that?

Do you think?

Yeah?

I feel like there's a real fine line, right, Like we don't want to lose the fun of childhood, but we do want to just make sure that our children are respecting body autonomy of others.

So you could say, before you play that game of like Jess to.

Do you say pat or bar or chase you or whatever it might be, you might say, do you want to play this game?

And let me know if you want to stop at any time.

Because you're just then modeling to them what consent looks like that actually you can be playing something can be really really fun, but you can also say stop when it feels right for you.

And that same question, like you might be chasing them around the house and you might.

Say, Maley, are you still having fun right now?

Like it's just a little.

Chicken that gets her to chicken with her body and then knows that that's a safe place to communicate it, and then when it goes into playing it with your cousins.

With her cousins, you might just say, oh, remember to ask will you touch somebody's body?

Like is this a game they actually want to play?

Like just chicken first?

It doesn't have to be like sit down, like really serious.

Like when I'm teaching young children, my children consent, I do it all through modeling.

I never explain to them necessarily like don't touch other people's bodies.

It's actually just through my interactions every day with them that they learn what consent looks like.

We have a few listeners reach out about some tools at parents that you can share with parents who can help their kids speak up confidently when boundaries are crossed.

So I believe that this comes from lots of modeling at home.

Like I just said, that children need to see us as parents advocate for their boundaries as well as us putting in boundaries for ourselves.

So how this.

Might look like If a family member was to come around to my house, I would say to my daughter, Hey, darling, remember your nanny's coming over this afternoon.

Remember you get to choose how you say hello.

And then once my mum arrives, I would say, oh, nanny's here, would you like to give her a hug, a kiss, a wave.

And in that moment, I'm saying to my daughter, listen to your body, you share what feels right.

But I'm also putting in a boundary with my mum to remind her of what kind of interactions we have in our family and how that looks.

So that's modeling how to interact.

And the other one is sometimes I will tell my children when they've crossed my personal space.

So last night I was over it, like it was just.

One of those days, and my husband was on a night shift and I was like, I'm done, and they were all over me for story time, and so I was just like, hey, mom needs some space right now.

My daughter kicked off and told me how sad I'd made her feel, and that's fine, that's all part of it.

But it's like, actually, as a parent, I need my children to see me putting in boundaries for my body, to give them the permission slip to put in a boundary for their body.

And so when we think about teaching children to be confident to say no, we need to really have these foundations of them seeing consent and practice, because the more that they see it happening, the more likely they can draw on that experience and say, actually, I can say no right now and it should be all right.

And another thing with that.

Is if we as parents or caregivers really respect a child's no, they're more likely to say it.

So say you're playing like a tickling game with the kids and they're like no, and you actually stop.

In that moment, you're teaching your child that they're no matters and that you should listen.

So the more we can practice and give children opportunities to say no, to see us as parents saying no, they're really good ways to build confidence.

I always I guess, double guess how my parent when I know that there's so many little harmless sayings that people then spin it and so actually that's quite detrimental.

For example, no one likes to dip a dobba, you know.

And I know that.

There's been times where, you know Maley, for example, any minute little inconvenience from another kid, whether one of her family members or her sister, she'll run to me.

And I've said before like come on, Molly, no one makes a dip a dobba.

And then afterwards I'm like, oh my gosh, that's sending the wrong message, right, So how do you make sure that you're communicating in a way that doesn't discourage them to stand up when something has happened.

Yeah, really good question.

I know We catch ourselves and parenting moments all the time, so I think that's only natural.

Yeah, when it comes to communication, I think there again, it's a really like foundational thing that you keep building on when it comes to sharing stuff that's important to a child.

When we as parents have capacity to try and listen, you know, in those moments where she's come to you and she had something like, oh gosh, that sounds really tough, how could you do?

Something like what could you do about that?

It almost is easier for us as parents to just shut it down and say stop, stop telling, because that's what feels right for us in that moment, particularly if we're just regulated ourselves or we've had a really busy day.

But if we can hold space even for the little things, that does really help them eventually, is something big does happen, they know, Oh that's somebody I can go and speak to and it feels really safe.

But another role that we have in.

Our house is we have a no secrets policy, so absolutely zero secrets are allowed in our house.

This morning, I gave Lola a piece of pizza for breakfast and I was like, don't tell mom, And then I'm like, shit.

Why so that would be like a bit what we don't do in our house, and it happened before, and like we definitely catch ourselves purely because then we're saying.

To the child, that's okay to keep some secret.

And when children are young, they're thinking is so black and white.

And so if you say, oh, that secret's a good secret or a safe secret and this one's not, like they don't understand.

That's way too gray.

And so with our family, we just have no secrets full stop.

And again it's not like something I sit down and talk to a four year old about.

Allow it to come up really naturally.

She brought her brother a truck and it was super, super noisy for his birthday.

She's like, oh, we'll keep this a secret, and I was like, no, darling, this is a surprise.

And so then we talk about surprises like they're really cool.

That's something somebody will eventually find out about.

But yeah, steering away from secrets or keeping this information is really important and it can be yeah, something as simple as don't say you're a piece of for breakfast, or don't have an ice cream, don't say that we got an ice cream when we're out, and yes, like from an open communication point of view, really good, but also from a grooming perspective, secrets.

Keeping secrets is one of the steps and the grooming process, and that's in order to establish trust with the child and also with the family.

And so often they might start with something really small like, oh, don't tell them we got an ice cream when we were out watching whether or not the parent, whether or not the child will tell the parent, and that kind of tells them, Okay, we're beginning to build trust, and then they build on that and build on that.

So having no secrets yet really important for communication and also another really important prevention tool.

There was some horrible news to come out of Melbourne just this past week.

Just to do with daycare.

Is there any signs that parents should look out for environments to assess their safety?

Yeah?

I feel like this one's a really hard, hard topic and my heart really goes out to all of those people that were affected in Melbourne.

Because the children were so young, it would have been really really hard to sort of know that something was wrong because at that age they're really unlikely to have the vocabulary comprehension to be able to express that to parents.

What I do say though, is that when your child goes into an early childhood setting, you as a parent have every right to ask questions and to become really curious.

I find often parents sort of stand back and don't want to be like overprotective or overbearing or over the top.

But actually, what if we put our child's safety at the center, we can feel a lot more comfortable to have conversations.

And so I suggest, and these are things that I do with my children, Like what is your child protection policy?

So do you know if something happens?

What are the steps to follow?

Do all your staff members know the steps to follow?

Another one, a big one for me is supervision, So what are the ratios for the children to teach it?

And also in the center, are there spaces where a child might not be seen, they might be hidden?

So like really mindful of who's watching my children, becoming.

Really mindful of.

The environment, so changing or toileting who is supporting the children through that?

Is that leaving one teacher, one adult alone with a child, is it in an open space?

So I think it's really hard to look out for certain signs at that young age.

That something's gone wrong.

But I would be more trying to look at it from can we use what has happened to drive some change?

And I hope that happens with policy and legal levels within the early childhood sector.

But as parents, we are allowed to ask the questions, and I would really encourage your listeners to ask them.

Is there any type of language that you can recommend when speaking to your own kids if you think something may have happened?

Yeah, So in that situation, I always say, become really curious with your child and notice what happens within you, Like if you've noticed maybe something different in their behavior, maybe they're really isolated and withdrawn and worried all the time and don't want to attend their early childhood center or for all of a sudden, then become really curious with that.

Don't go straight in with maybe what you assume has happened.

It's better to be curious.

So it might be I've noticed that at drop offs you're really upset at the moment what's going on there?

Or they might tell you something's happened and you might say, can you tell more about that?

Or what happened next?

And you'll notice that am I languaging?

I'm not saying, oh did this person do that, or did you then do this?

Or did you feel this?

No, it's really open, like what happened next, what was what was going on around that time, So really keeping it as open as possible and being really curious where you can.

So I have a six year old boy and he's at the age where he can't keep his hands off his penis and looks it's outside of the pans, inside at home, whatever it might be.

But I'm really worried about shaming him for her.

Is there any.

Steps I can take or anything I should be doing to make sure that I don't.

He's educated, he's educated.

Yeah, yeah, I'm so here for these questions.

This is so nice to be talking to two.

Dads like this.

But I said earlier, often i'm speaking with mum, So I love this, and how you don't want to cause shame like amazing.

So a child exploring their body, all parts of their body, very very developmentally normal.

So what I would say.

In this space is I encourage children to recognize the difference between a private place and a public place.

So say he's.

Touching his penis and it's in the lounge room, you might say, hey, this is a public place.

You're more than welcome to touch your body, explore your body, but that's something we do in a private place.

Private place is room or the bathroom.

So give him the context that that behavior is appropriate for and that doesn't cause any shame.

It just is almost like a redirection of the behavior.

And then is there any age is a hard one to answer, But talking about public place and private place.

We were at the park on the weekend and Marley was like, I need to wet and there was no toilets anywhere, and I was like, let's just do a bushweed and she was like, people are going to see me if she's communicating to me in that way, Do I have to acknowledge that or do you think it's best to acknowledge that to not then break the boundaries by being like, no, it's okay.

I'll like, you know, we're just going to be in public.

Yeah, yeah, real tricky one.

Funny my daughter loves the bushway.

She'd like, should ask for that, So yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, tricky to answer, because I think every child and family is different.

You might in that situation say, if I was able to make a barrier to make sure nobody saw would you feel more comfortable then, so you could.

Maybe give an option.

Otherwise you need to hold on and then we'll have to like find somewhere.

But I think try and explore that option in a way that makes them feel safe.

And if that's not a possibility, then yeah, probably go into the bathroom and you might be able to acknowledge it.

Like, yeah, actually people.

Might see you and that might be uncomfortable.

Can can I make a way for the to be more comfortable for you?

Victoria?

You are a wealth of knowledge.

It's been so great and we could keep asking questions, but we know your time is limited, but we want to say thank you so much, thank you appreciate it.

Well, you're so welcome.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

And again, like being able to speak to Dad's is such a privilege and I hope that this also shares out to your audience being dance as well.

It means a lot and I think as parents we can we can make a lot of change in the space for our children.

Lejien ash the penguin feeding start at two o'clock, so we need to get a move on, all right, let's makef we wanted to them.

Yeah, we don't want to miss that.

Do you think people are following about our little around the world.

Probably not joke, They're like, what the fucking Matt Nash talking about?

We're holidays?

Okay, we're holidays and we're joking that we're traveling around the world, but.

Really we're at home.

Are you joking?

Screaming kids?

There are no penguins.

Sometimes all a gag.

Sometimes Batman needs to take his cape off.

You know, well, that's thank you.

I will if you enjoyed this.

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Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and the connections to land, see and community.

We pay our respects to their elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and torrestraight onland the people's today.

This episode was recorded on gadigle Land.