Oh, what's up, everybody.

Welcome to a brand new episode of Spilled the Tea Kila, y'all here on the out on the John Roki general.

N't't even want it.

I gotta get you to say that.

I've been training my mouth.

Gotta train my mouth to say that.

But yeah, all right, no diddy, Jesus, I.

Gotta train my mouth.

Well, we got so much to get into, uh here on the show.

You know, we trying to keep the show under ninety minutes, but we are going to be talking about, uh the comments from Bo DeMeo and nid niAA Costa coming after Marvel and the car and really Bo a lot of the comments here but my low key passive aggressively taking shots at Marvel and Jordan peel Kainda as well.

We're gonna get into that, and we're gonna talk about what where Marvel is right now with this F four situation underperforming at the box office, and you've got the Spider Man brand new day right on the horizon, the Avengers films on the horizon, but there's still more stuff around Marvel.

It's not radiating positivity all around, and so where they add as a brand?

Are they too damaged to come back from that.

We're also gonna get into Spike Lee and Colin Kaepernick, and we're gonna get into other things that are going on here and directing in the NFL, and talk about that.

Amanda seals outnumbered video that she did where she was going to toto with black conservatives and what came out there.

So I am a John Roca and joined as always on the Spiltequila by the King Swag himself Winston.

Hey, Marshall Winston, how are.

You don't get this new COVID man She Miss Rona has turned into even more of a bitch.

Like, hey, really, RFK Junior tells me that he doesn't need to be doing any more research for vaccines or anything, and you all can just suck it up.

Is that the situation.

I'm only gonna say this once so we don't demonetize the video that Jigga has half a brain and a wormated.

Alright, I ain't listening to shit its first of all, that's disrespectful to a bunch of people with autism, like for all the reasons.

Second, you have, all you've done is bitch about things and not come up with any solutions.

And nobody's saying that you shouldn't take unhealthy things like random dyes and ship out of food.

Of course, fine, by all means, that's the one thing that I think we can all go.

Okay, sure, I agree with you, but you know, part of what went under your regime about making making you mad coke take out high fructose corn syrup and that sugar.

Is that better than high two coast fruit fructose corn syrup?

Sure?

Does it stop so from making you a fat ass?

No?

I f R F K bro to the ends of the earth, all right, junior, junior whatever?

Well wait a minute, and then Daddy, the one down in Louisiana acted like the ass.

To who's the other?

Who's the who's the who's the congressman who's also a racist prick?

No?

No, that's that's diff's that's no, that's rf K is the son of RF Robert F.

Kennedy John right right, That's that's fog horn leghorns.

And that's what I'm saying.

Well, apparently the name Kennedy don't mean ship no more.

That's that's essentially where we've gotten to.

YEA.

Even the VJ.

Kennedy from MTV is a big maga person on the Fox, not that you.

Had Chris Pratt and I am I'm forever done defending Chris Pratt.

Man.

He tried to be like, hey man, damn, we're buddies.

We play poker.

Like, I'm not happy with this stuff he's doing.

But I'm not gonna sit here and be like, hey man, in between you know, poker hands, maybe you shouldn't do this.

Dude, there's a p it which you cannot You can no longer defend your friend.

If all of the things he is pulling and John Oliver did a fantastic job breaking this down this past weekend, But if all of the things that he is pulling, you are actually setting us back health wise for decades because you're you're pulling funding, and you're pulling projects that are going to help us deal with cancer, deal with Alzheimer's, all these different things, and you are not putting anything in place to try and can like rectify the situation.

Like bro, of all the things that Trump has done, I actually hate RFK the most out of all.

Yeah, And the thing is Pratt is just a religious nutball and the thing that he's in and that's what's influencing the comments that he's making.

And remember Pratt is related now to the Kennedys because he's married to Catherine Schorzenager, who is Maria Schreiber's son.

Ria Schreiber his cousin to RFK Junior.

So that's it.

But all of a lot of RFK Junior's cousins came out before the election had said do not support this man.

He is an addict.

He has driven a lot of members of our family into addiction.

This is not a good person.

Then you have to know that, Yeah, I know he was driving other family members into addiction.

That's what they accused him of because he essentially engaged them in the addiction, you know.

And so that does happen.

And so they came out with those letters, and here is Chris Pratt saying he's a wonderful man.

It's akin to saying, well, you know, he didn't rape me, so he seems like a nice guy to me, and like it's that kind of nonsense that is frustrating.

And Pratt said things like, well, you know, I would hate to be hating one administration so much that I wouldn't give them credit for anything they did.

It's amazing how he all of a sudden discovered he had vocal courts to speak about this stuff, because for the last four years, Chris Pratt said fuck all about MAGA coming after Biden and shitting on anything Biden did, over and over and over again.

Chris Pratt all of a sudden has a voice now because he doesn't fear liberals and progressives coming after him.

He knows if you talk about Mega MA show up at his door.

That's the difference there.

So fucking spare me with you coming out and trying to be Kumbaya.

Hei's my ass, Chris Pratt, for fucks.

Yeah, my main son above my main's son.

I main issue just above all else.

Is just that like when people try and say, you know, you got Trump rangers injel you can't even mention the good stuff happen.

No, if he has done something good, then I'm here for so Like for example, Trump has done something so bold.

Remember he put out there.

He doesn't want to just lower pharmacy prices, yeah, to a reasonable amount.

He wants to lower them by twenty four hundred percent.

He wants to pay me to take my eighty HD drugs, all right, because that's how percentages work.

If you if something is if something is one thousand dollars per pill, and you lower it one hundred percent, it's now free.

So if you turn that.

Motherfucker and you make it twenty four one hundred percent off, you are paying me to take my drugs, not just you, every other member of your family.

That's extra credit they can get in on somewhere.

Everybody gets some money, bro.

So if that's what we're doing, I'll praise Trump all day for that.

Get me paid to be healthy.

Maybe that's how you make America healthy again.

But but this nonsense about this big beautiful bill which is raising, like you know, our deficit by trillions, and and all of the things that undercuts, including Snap and Medicaid.

He kept swearing it was gonna do it, but it.

Clearly the only way you can do it, and it's in the build you have to cut.

I will give credit where credit is due, Show me where the credit is due.

That's all I ask.

I think that's fair.

And also, do you trust these guys to be the poster children for making America healthy again?

I don't know.

These guys can't even do a push.

A pull up.

You saw I saw people talking about hexit having a It's like, yeah, that's how they did it in the Army and Ship.

Literally it doesn't even get his chin above the bar, so it doesn't count.

Hexad.

This trying to do a kip up, which is what we do in in crossfait, and the way he does it, the form is completely terrible.

And look at this guy behind him trying to do push ups.

You don't put your belly down on the ground first.

When you do push ups, you do a straight plank up and down.

So yeah, these are not people to teach you how to be healthy again for.

Good No, and like to that point, like, look, I will give credit to people that are older that are in shape.

I there was a video going around of RFK doing incline presses a while back.

I want to say he was doing like a looked like two thirty five, like a thirty five on each side.

It's just sort of a plate.

But that's that is actually very impressive, and especially first age.

Like I said, I will give credit words due, sure, but I'm not gonna sit around and act like this man is the epitome of health for people his age, like this is gonna sound weird to say, yeah, I don't really rock with Skip Bayless with a lot of things.

I'll give Skip Bayless credit for actually how shape he genuinely stays like that's actually a like he is somebody that I'm like, wow, if you old man like you know what I'm saying.

So no, no, no, no, I will give him credit for being a better fit eighty year old than most.

But you know it's not fit his mind.

That's true, It's true.

Anyway, that's not where we were gonna go to start the show, but that is where we went when we started the show, because that's about spill the TG that we're gonna talk about what the hell we feel like talking about when it strikes our fancy.

And there you go for starting to start the show.

But we are going to get into it now, get into the topics.

Just remember this is a ninety minute show, trying to keep it in ninety minutes.

So if you want your stream labs the super chance answered send them in now so we get to them quickly and answer them here on the show.

So let's get into the first topic here, And as I mentioned, we're gonna get into some of this conversations that are going around about Marvel in the pop culture zeitgeist.

Here, let's start with bo To Mayo.

Bo To Mayo here was spoken out about Kevin Figee and Marvel Studios for allegedly failing to support his animated studios a series.

And remember, this was one of the most amazing series that has come out, one of the top things Marvel has done the last few years.

And of course DeMeo had his contract terminated for quote egregious misconduct which was connected to his only fans account.

There were allegations of other things, but none of that stuff has really come out and been substantiated yet.

And of course there is still a court case which he talks about all the time.

But he did say into the reasons about his feelings about the Mutant Saga and the Marvel Mutant Saga and all this stuff.

He said, the X Men are so much bigger than anyone created myself included.

Would I've loved to write directors to live action films, Yes, but I have great faith that there are amazing artists out there with amazing visions and stories told with X Men.

Now do I have faith in MCUs and Mutant Saga?

Short answer not yet know, and let me walk through why.

And then he goes into all these reasons why Winston that he does not think Marvel has prepared the Mutant saga correctly throughout this whole thing, because they haven't led up to it correctly.

They don't have it in creators who are that invested in these characters.

He called out a few of the executives for trying to shut him down when he tried to talk about the history of these characters, how important it is to flesh out these characters an things in the end that Kevin Feige was jealous of his success with X Men ninety seven because people kept reference that, referencing that show as a alternative to what Marvel was putting out theatrically.

So what are your thoughts with all these comments from Beau de Mayon, of course, keeping in mind that he's been accused of some uh some things behind the scenes here, he.

I really need him to just kind of stop talking for a while.

I think it would be a thing like I don't have a problem with people calling out issues with studios or systems or things like that that are abusive, or that are doing things wrong or things like that.

But the problem is Disney live in rent free in your head, dude, you all you do, Marvel specifically, Marvel specifically, all you do is continuously trash talk.

If this is what you're going to to do, this is what you want to make like you're living now, then start a podcast, Brodie, like like, get off Twitter and stop.

If he really has this much to say, then start a podcast.

Ye, because I also have to believe that there's a certain level of this, Like he's not said anything.

It sounds like.

Straight up that that is going to get him in a lot of trouble.

But if you're in open corporate seedings, you might want to be quiet about the company that is essentially you're suing, is being sued by you.

You are only going to shoot yourself in the foot.

This doesn't seem like a smart action plan if the ultimate goal is to is to try and win that case.

So I are there some truths that are probably there?

Yeah?

Sure, I don't think that we're telling full blown lies here, But I also think that you just in my opinion, the more the more of this you're doing, and you're not dropping like receipts like you can say all day, Yeah, man, I actually wrote I had heard that he was actually on the Blade script, So that's fine.

You can write all day I was on the Blade script and then this and this and this happened, and then FIGI told me to go myself, and then this and this and this again no receipts.

Then you are just somebody running your mouth.

And to that point, I know you can't drop the receipts because you're in.

Court, so stop it.

You're just at this point it feels like you're doing it for attention, because at least with the Ray Palmer situation when that was happening, and I know people were starting to get burnt out by the time that that was all said and done, because it felt like he was on Twitter more than he was directly attacking this stuff at times.

At least receipts did come up about that, so there was something to go, wow, Ray was actually right about this, that and the third.

So like that is the difference here.

The more you go on about all the insider stuff you're releasing but you don't have proof that you can show people, you just sound like a disgruntled employee that got dismissed.

And this is you trying to say face and knowing the things that I know, right, just believe it at that I'm not.

I'm not.

I'm not getting into it because I'm not gonna get in no trouble.

But I just come on, man, be quiet.

I I kind of how can I say this correct?

Because because Bow and I follow each other, which is I like BO and I think of the back and forth, and I you know, because you know me, man, I love to speak truth to power, and I kind of respect that Bo is out here saying the things because no one else connected to Marvel is.

No one else is saying all this in the system.

I get it.

Yeah, they're in the system.

They've all signed NDAs.

We're gonna get to Spike Lee.

In a little bit.

He had to sign an NDA about his own project.

And so you have these things where people are hamstrung by the situation because they can't speak out on it.

But we're starting to hear from people who are speaking out about it, and I think the ones that do have I'm okay to listen to them speak out about it.

I hear you because it is coming A lot of people are saying it's coming off like an ex who's upset who got.

That's literally the next comparison I was gonna make, Yeah, and I got it.

You got dumped by your ex, So you're constantly going to talk crap about your ex, but you didn't talk crap about your x Y you were with your ex.

You're doing it now that they've dumped you in a public way and they're erasing your name from the second season and all this stuff.

And of course you have the benefit of a court case that hasn't been settled, and so you can still play a certain angle because you don't have any of those receipts to put out there.

But you can say, well, a member of the crew was on an elevator with an executive and they didn't know this was going on and didn't know there was a premiere, or Marvel didn't want to pay for our opening night rap party or a premier party and all of that, which I understand because Marvel's like, I'm not to touch that.

I'm gonna get in trouble if them legal probably told them, don't have anything to do with this, because it could look like you're tacitly endorsing his behavior.

If the evidence comes out in the end that he did do stuff, you know, so I totally get that.

That being said, I do think if you kind of claw through some of the stuff, because some of the stuff is his opinion, his analysis of the way they're doing the meat stuff.

But if you call through some of that stuff, there is some things that ring true and feel familiar, and you go, yeah, there is like Figee has a way of running things.

What he shows you on the front face ain't what's going on behind the scenes all the time.

And you know, there have been certain comments that have alluded to how Figy runs things behind the scenes, and it ain't as rosy as some people might present the picture.

Which which I think truthfully is fair.

But yeah, there's a point at which you're a not really revealing new information.

He's kind of rehashing the same thing over and over again.

And so similar again to the rape Palmer situation, where I was like fully backing him when it started all that, and I really was to the end, but I could see the fatigue the world was getting because you know, he had his he had his little thing at that that he signed it at the end of every tweet, which felt, in my opinion, very Facebook two thousand and six, Like how you would people would like try and sign off of like you know, Facebook posts by you know, he'd be like, man, I just can't stand.

And the Cowboys is so bad.

I'm gonna go drink a beer.

Am, Like, you're just to correct you real quick.

You're saying Ray Palmer, who is the Adam?

You mean Ray Fisher, you mean.

Jesus Christ, brain fog and Covid is a mother.

I had thousand percent men Ray Fisher both times, and and I kept saying Ray Palmer.

I apologize, So you're still in the same kind of I knew it was DC something that it was a nickname Ray Okay, that's that's the only thing I could anchor to, Yes, Ray Fisher, like the accountability over everything and get the a greater than E right.

I don't like I thought that was a strong thing to do at the beginning.

By the time we got to the end of it, it almost came off as a little too cheesy.

There's the same thing, the bite that Bo had when he first let it all rip, Yeah, started to it's just starting to fully deteriorate.

And and it's exactly what you were saying about the idea of this sounds like a jaded X at this point.

And the funny thing is, the minute you said that, that is where my brain went.

Because I've been doing research on some Reddit stuff for a project, and I've seen a number of stories of like jilted exes, and there was one story in particular that had me dying of this girl who was upset that her boyfriend wasn't paying a lot of like as much.

Attention as she felt she deserved to her right.

So she essentially is like her girlfriend's like, girl, you gotta test his ass.

You gotta say you're you know what, You're not enough for me, so maybe maybe we need to rethink this.

So she says this to the guy and goes okay, and he fully breaks with her.

He breaks up with her, walks out the apartment, blocks her on all social media, and she's like what, no, no, what are you doing?

So finally get corners him at a party.

It was like, what, you weren't supposed to break up with me?

And he goes, you told me I wasn't enough for you, so I took that as a sign that we weren't compatible and I moved on.

He goes, well, it was a test.

You were testing me, and she goes, yeah, no, I was just testing because that's what girls always do it.

It's like girls that are immature and goes, ah see, and that's the problem.

That's why you're not enough for me.

So I'm not enough for you, and he bounces right.

She stalks this man for six months.

Wow, six months she's stalking him.

She gets a whole new girlfriend, starts lying to everybody about how he was abusive and how he wasn't doing all this kind of stuff.

Then, at a party, because the friends are texting like it was a test.

Why are you being like this at a party when she's going off drunkenly in front of the new girlfriend, he goes, so, this is what.

She told me.

Here's the text proof of what she said, admitting to it, and her friends stocking me, and then I have a restraining ar on this whole now, and everybody's like, girl, you're not well starting to get into that territory.

The more you keep going on and on and on and on and on, now you just seem like the girl that's screaming at the top of her lungs he ain't shit, he ain' shit.

That's what this sounds like.

Now you know what I'm saying, and I get.

If I'm in the legal battle, then walk away until you can talk about it again.

Or you sniper, which is you only show up when you have something really big or really really okay right now.

And there's another negative against BO.

I think Bow's got a right to speak his mine, but right now Bow is machine gunning all this stuff all over the place.

And I think what you alluded to, and some people have said in the chat very very well, is that the real criticism is getting lost in the mountain of all this other stuff that's going on that makes it sound like you're just mad at your ex because everyone still likes your ex and everyone is still going to see your ex's shows.

You're upset because of the way that you were treated by your ex, and I get that.

Listen, I've been in that boat.

I've been broken up with in that person moved on because they didn't have the feelings for me that I thought they did and everyone was like great about this person, and you do feel rejected and it sucks, so you can't.

The temptation is there to kind of talk shit loudly enough, so that they turn around and look back at you.

And I think this is what it feels like, is that Bo wants Figy to call him and be like, Okay, what's wrong, what happened, let's talk about it.

I'll tell you this right I'll tell you this right now.

Man.

There are two things.

One, there's a reason the term living in someone's head rent free is a thing.

Yeah, clearly Marvel is living rent free in your head because you you will not stop talking about that.

And so there's a difference between I'm gonna tell it like it is and I'm gonna give you the insider scoop of how they are so wrong and they are so evil and this is why, and then you would do that versus just complaining about everything.

That to me is where things start to get a little bit muddled.

Speaking of muddled, my second point just got eight by the brain.

Like, can't really speak on it at this moment, but that that's that's the main thing that that sticks out to me is it feels like Marvel is living rent free in his head and you You've gone from a sympathetic character that people want to hear what you have to say and like will be their brother, fight the power.

We're not gonna let this do this to you to now again.

Just feeling like a jilted like X That's that's what this is, and that truthfully, they always say the opposite of love.

Is not hate, it's apathy.

Apathy.

So the more you talk about how much you hate them and all that kind of stuff, it sounds like you're still in love with them and you're just.

Upset that this went the way that it went.

Yeah, and you know he's bringing race into it now by implying, you know, they don't know.

He started with that.

With the storm stuff and with the X Men stuff, and he even chimed in a night Acosta's comments, which we'll get to in just a second.

So there's a lot going on with stuff from both.

I think both as I said, I think Both's got every right to speak his mind.

But I do think we're getting to the point now where the points that he really wants to make are getting lost in the avalanche of the other stuff.

And I think if I was Bo's friend, like in real life, like we hung out and stuff, I would tell him, Bo, pick and choose your battles here, because you're going to lose the public that you so desperately need to be on your side.

If the stuff comes out and they've unfairly vilified you, you'll look even better that you didn't just spew all this stuff out constantly.

You'll look even better if you took the high road occasionally laid out some stuff and then in the end you get proven right.

People are going to be on your side even more so, is what I would say.

But I do think there is validity in what he's saying, but trying to find it in all the stuff that's around it is difficult, And you don't want to make people work harder to find your point because people don't have time to do that anymore.

You want to make your point clear and then offer evidence to back that point up, but only make occasional pointoints and make them count.

And I think the sad thing is the last little bit I'll say about bo.

Sure, he reminds me of a number of showrunners that I've known that were like, became showrunners young and were insanely talented, right, But when you hear about them as people behind the scenes, it's that same thing of like, I'm not going I would never in a million years.

Compare him to the insanity of Kanye, because Kanye has gone clearly over a very racist, like homophobic, you know, anti semitic deep end.

But the idea of when we talk about young Kanye and when he was coming up, there was so much legitimate musical genius in his brain, but for all of that musical genius came with a lot of immaturity, came with a lot of ego egotistical like tendencies and things like that.

He's reminding me of a lot of those artists that I know that people go, holy shit.

They can write their assof, they can direct their ass off, they can act their ass off, but they're an ass and that's that is what that is the vibe that is continuing to be read here.

And and I know a number of other showrunners that became them like by early thirties, which is very fast for those that aren't familiar how this system kind of works, but they were too young to be in that position.

And now it doesn't mean that there aren't old show runners that are dicks.

There are plenty, but this reads of the young talented person that to be that talented that quickly is also kind of a dick.

Yeah, and you gotta be careful because from my own personal experience being an outspoken person, people want to target you.

And if you go to a bunch of places and people are like what you see in with what happened with the Witcher and now with X Men, there have been accusations and so you see that and people you put a target on your back, where if you were a little more I want to say this, not restrained, not censored, not restricted, but a little.

More uh.

Selective on when you say your things and what you say, you'll get more.

You'll get more people on your side to support you, and those allegations will be will come into more question because people see this other side of you and respect that you know.

And so all that, all that being said, the one thing I have to say above all else, I will always give credit where credit is due.

I said that at the beginning of the show about you know, political shit.

X Men ninety seven was by far and away my favorite thing that came out that year.

Yeah, like it.

It kind of blew everything else out of the water.

It became my show of the year way before we got any other show, and it never got rocked there were shows that were very good, but it never got knocked off that throne for me, So I will.

Give credit where it's due.

He wrote one hell of an effing show and helped make that a reality despite so many things pushing back against it.

But that does not.

Then change the behavior that he's been exhibiting the last year.

Two years.

How long has it been.

I'm already tired.

I don't even remember anymore.

It's been two years.

A year and a half.

When did ninety seven drop?

I thought it was in twenty three earlier.

I thought it was earlier.

Last year.

Oh my god, X Men ninety seven release it was May of March of twenty four, So you're right about a year and a half.

So, but it feels bro doesn't it feel like it's been five f in years at this point?

COVID years.

Don't do that with COVID because sometimes you write about that.

In this case, every time he brings it up, it feels like x N ninety seven was five years ago, and then ten years ago, and then back in nineteen ninety seven.

Actually, like you know what I'm saying, Like.

Hey, hey, remember when Bow and FIGI were fighting in ninety seven Oh.

That's exactly how rumors start.

That's exactly how Trump would describe it.

He's to Mayo.

I don't know yo.

I heard though in ninety.

Seven I would five people say they people say come together.

Yeah.

Yes, some people in the chat asking if I get Bowl on the show, I should get Ball on the show.

But I need to get a little more knowledgeable about this stuff so I can have a legitimate back and forth with Bo.

That would be me praising him where I need to praise him, but also calling him out and asking him the questions about his behavior.

And if Bo's up for it, then fuck yeah.

I would love to do an interview with Bow to Mayo because I think one one outlaw to another.

It would be a lot of fun to have that.

But Bo's got to be willing to be called on the carpet on some stuff because you guys know, nobody comes on my channel who doesn't also have that as a possibility if they're going to be interviewed on the channel.

And again, nobody is knocking his ability to write.

Nobody is knocking him.

It's always the best thing since Endgame, I think is the best thing Marvel has done since Endgame.

Think so.

I think so, And nobody is knocking him speaking truth to power.

But that's not what this feels like anymore.

We've kind of left that.

That train has left the station now based off of how this is going about, how he's been going about this.

What's that great line in uh Kings of Comedy said game Tender says like the president fight too much?

The president fight too much.

That's what it's look look man again, not to circle back to Trump, but how many times have been like Bro?

The more you bring up X, Y and Z, the more it feels like every time you go, well, are you talking about Epstein?

Every time you say that, it feels like you're talking about Epstein a little bit more.

It feels like you you keep telling on yourself.

He is Obama arrangement syndrome, and Biden's rangement syndrome, and Hillary dranger in syndrome.

Consistently.

Obama did the land away fourteen years ago.

That's what really started.

That's a great question.

Why was Obama in his mouth like he was always in his mouth?

Hey, no, I think he would do it in a harpy.

I think he would do it in a harpy.

For Obama one hundred.

Anyway, let's move on to a little bit more of this conversation.

Let's move on to Nineacosta's comments.

She is, of course, I was being interviewed in conversation about the sequel to twenty eight Day twenty eight days Later, twenty years later sequel rather, and she was talking about her experience on the Marbles, And this was on thhr and she said, making the twenty years later sequel was one of the best filmmaking experiences I've had.

One of the issues I had with Candy Man in Marbles it was a lack of a really good script, which is always going to just wreck havoc on the whole process.

But Alex Garland hands you your script and you're like, this is amazing.

You don't really have to change it, although I did.

I basically asked for more infected.

This was like my big contribution, so she basically said.

In a separate interview earlier this year, she also said to Deadline they had a date and they were prepping certain things, and you just have to lean into the process hardcore.

Speaking about the Marvels, the way they're making those films is very different to the way ideally I would make a film, so you just have to lean into the process and hope for the best.

The best didn't happen this time, but you kind of have to trust in the machine.

So more tempered criticism, but still criticism there.

Winston, what do you think about her comments about script and about the process, the factory process of making these marvel moves.

I mean, the first thing is you didn't see her put the marvels in her mouth every two seconds.

True, And I think that that has more weight if you look.

One of my my favorite quotes that is from a comedy.

Yeah, but it actually is very philosophically poignant, is how Jackie Chan is introduced into rush hour and then he hit some of the you like to talk.

I like people who like to talk, because then I get to see how full of shit they really are.

Literally the means of She's spoken on it now twice and in very short terms and then kept it pushing.

Yeah, that to me actually speaks.

Significantly more volumes because then I'm like, ooh, there's something there.

Yeah, that was a little bit of a dig in a side swipe, but she didn't say anything super crazy to try and like get her band from ever working with Disney again, since obviously that is, you know, that's the parent company for Marvel.

But she was still honest, and I think that that is that's good for her to do that.

You obviously cannot do it closer to the situation, but good for her for kind of speaking on that.

You know, I personally had fun with the Marvels, but I don't disagree that there.

Are issues a lot of issues with that.

Script, even kind of including how we decided to deal with Carol's problems and or the villain choice.

Like, there's a lot of stuff there that that's less direction, that's more writing.

So she's not wrong.

And if it's true that because of the direction that we went, FIGI became more hands on than he ever has been.

And that has been the conversation that people have been frustrated with, is this idea of it feels like he's always been in control, but now it feels like if you were letting, if he's like the admiral of the navy.

Ye, he has.

Decided, No, I'm I'm the I'm the captain of this ship and this ship and this ship and this ship.

No, you're you're the You're you're the grand that the five star admiral bro you tell the ships where to go, and then you let them pilot their ships.

You cannot be on every single ship at the same time during a battle, and that that is part of what it feels like has been going on.

So for her to kind of mention, yeah, I was supposed to be this ship is kind of hard when like the engine don't work, because we all know the engine is the script they if this is a third hand, fourth hand engine, and I'm still being told I can't determine where to turn my wheel.

You know, it is what it is.

But I am the captain of the ship, so unfortunately I had to take some else here.

So good for her for being honest.

I can't.

I can't.

I can't be as successful as I would like to be because you guys keep changing the orders of what you set my ship out to do.

Uh.

And that's what it feels like.

Because the finish off the quote, she says it was interesting because there was a certain point when I was like, oh, this isn't going to be the movie that I pitched, or even the first version of the movie that I shot.

So I realized that this is now an experience, and it's a learning curve and it really makes you stronger as a filmmaker in terms of your ability to navigate speaking of ships.

So I think this is this interesting comment for her to make because she doesn't just say the Marvels.

She also said Candy Man, which kind of throws Jordan Peel a little bit under the bus as well.

And I will say this, it also takes two films that she has gotten some crap for, and maybe it's her attempt to take away the blame from herself and put it on other things so that people will look at this twenty years Later sequel and want to come see the movie and want to give her a chance to see if maybe it was a script issue with the Marvels and candy Although I like Candy Man more than the Marvels.

I think I still haven't seen direct I know I need to, but I'd like it doesn't throw Jordan entirely.

I mean, the other thing that can be said is like, what's the exact quote about about finished or not the best script?

What did she say?

Oh, she said what she said was making the twenty years Later sequel is one of the best filmmakers basins.

I've had.

One of the ses I had with Candy Man and Marvels was the lack of a really solid script, which is always gonna just wreck havoc on the whole process.

Okay, lack of a really solid script, which is the executive producer's job, right.

So Jordan was the EP on Candy Man.

And then she co wrote Candy Man with when Rosenfeld and with Jordan.

The three of them wrote it together.

So I mean, I feel like I remember hearing something about how it got it kept getting pushed a number of times.

I don't know if it was just pushed because of COVID to get the release day out, or if there were they kept tweaking the scripts a whole bunch, And you know, to that point, I don't necessarily see that as like throwing it fully under the bus, But that means if she's willing to talk about a product that she co wrote, I think that then speaks to her even saying it still wasn't my best work.

That was that.

I think that that's actually really interesting to be able to beat nia the is it or naya?

How does she pronounce I say naya, But it might be Niadacosta.

Well, mister Costa, well we'll go with that, just because I'm not sure how do she pronounces her name.

The idea that that meant the director version of herself calling out the writer version of herself, And that's actually also a bold thing and makes the statement, in my opinion, a little bit more powerful because that's also admitting I also ft up there.

But she doesn't say that, and I think that's where I think people have an analysis are starting to look at this as her trying to a little bit brand safe.

By the way, I don't think she's she wrong in her analysis here in her perception because she was involved in the process, but she doesn't say we turned in a terrible script or we didn't have a fully foot.

She mentioned the two scripts that were that were lacking, so I'm saying to me, I'm gonna read scripts.

She also co wrote the Marvels.

There were two other writers, so I think she's getting writing credit on these scripts Winston, but she's not like fully right them.

Do you know what I'm saying.

I think she's tossing in things and she's getting a credit for as a co writer, but she's not.

Really because the way I would have the way I would have interpreted that.

Yeah, I do see that she at least has top billing writing.

Then the way that I then, the way that I actually interpret that is I do think that that's her taking a shot at herself as a writer, because specifically she then follows up when Alex Gonderland handy a script and it's that solid, Holy crap, this is amazing, you know what I'm saying?

That to me does feel like a little bit of self critique, and I'm actually I would give her more credit the fact I didn't realize she had written co written both of these that that sounds like her almost saying I maybe need to take a step back from writing.

That's That's kind of what the way I interpret that, I hear you.

And it could also be that that she's also commenting on the process on both of these films, because the processes were so janky on both of the films, as you said, for with delay and cost cutting stuff and all of these things, that there wasn't time to get a really solid script done between her and the writers before she started shooting because she had to get this out by a certain time or whatever.

And then they didn't realize there would be delays, which if they had had delays, they could have rewritten the script, would have could have had the script a little bit more solid before they shot, But they can't.

You can't factor in delays.

You don't know what's going to cause delays, and so all of that.

So it's probably more a commentary on the process as a whole, and if we take your point in the process and her being aware of how much more she needs to bring to the process in order to take ownership of the process fully and get better as a writer and get better as a director in navigating because now this is three franchises in a row.

Bro I mean, Marvel's a Candy Man, which is essentially a horror franchise, and what she's doing now with twenty years later, and of course she has that smaller film head of Gobbler or something like that.

So yeah, should be coming out.

Yeah that's the face off ahead of Cobbler.

Yeah, no, I mean, but but again then maybe then maybe that's genuinely what this is is is a critique of herself as a writer.

And at least that's that's how I'm gonna interpret it.

Obviously, people will decide how they want to interpret it themselves.

But that's the only thing that then would make potential sense because you that what's the big differentiating factor between this and the last four films she did.

You know what I'm saying, Yeah, is legitimately her writer directoring it.

Now she's just directing so.

Literally, Yeah, like Little Woods, which was her first one, she wrote and directed that straight up, there's no other writer, right but Candy Man Marvels.

Those are things that she co wrote with other writers, and we don't know if she like came up with the script from the beginning and or or if there were writers there first and then she got writing credit for contributing certain lines.

That's what happens in directors all the time.

So we don't know what the process is fully on both of those projects, and would be I should do more research to find out if there are interviews with her saying how much she worked on those projects from.

This jont because the other thing about it too, whether she's taking a shot at herself or whether she's truly just got the little baby writing credit on there because she maybe altered some lines and she's putting this at the feet of other people like I could venture a guess Little Woods with that being her first feature, she probably been working on that for a while.

Yeah yeah, right, yeah right.

And I and there is something to be said.

I still think that everything that Jordan has put out as a director has been absolutely fantastic.

Agree, But I do think that there is a if we were going to use like the whole you know, S tier, a tier B tier kind of system, get Out his S tier and a tier all by itself with the projects that he's done, and then you have a lot of A tier stuff.

But like as good is Us is, and I think it's very good, it ain't touching the script of get Out.

Because he has said he had worked on get Out personally for almost six seven years versus Us.

He had had inklings, but after get Out with such a hit, and after the Oscar Win and all that, it was like, oh shit, they want more.

So he's like trying to put stuff out.

And that's why it felt like Nope felt a little bit more solid than Us because he'd had more time to kind of work on it and flush it out and go through a few extra drafts and things that you know what I'm saying, so that could also be what's going on with Little Woods compared to her other projects that she wrote on.

She probably was working on that sucker for a while, versus Oh shit, I'm on Candylan Man, we got we got this shit gotta move.

Oh shit, I'm on Marvels and this shit gotta move.

That could also be.

Another thing that comes into play is people don't realize sometimes when someone's like baby is popping off, it looks like, holy shit, this person is on a whole different planet.

And it may have been this was just their their intense passion project.

Yeah, well, we'll see the next film had She has an adaptation of his Zac Dennison's novel.

She wrote the screenplay, she adapted it.

She's the only writer on it.

Besides is that because they have to give his ac credit.

But like, so that's going to be curious to see what the screenplay adaptation is like and if it's going to work.

So we'll have answers on that as well, you know, So we'll see.

But let's one last thing.

I didn't send this to you, but I want to get your thoughts on this.

Where is it that I put it up here?

I thought I had this quote here it is, okay, let me see if I've got this quote.

So.

Ray Winstone, in an interview today, talked about his experiences on making Black Widow and Stay with Marvel as the last piece on this and he said, I worked with this amazing director, Kate Shortland, and we worked on what my character was going to be.

He was like a pedophile running around all He was like a bet of a running around all these girls and they'd become Black Widows.

We used to get implotted on set.

It was probably the best thing I've done for a really long time.

Then I come home after finishing the job and get a call saying we need to do some reshoots.

I say how many scenes?

Kate says all of them?

So I said she should just recast the role.

But I was contracted to do it, so I had to do it.

I go back, they do my hair all ice put me in the suit and I couldn't do it.

I'd already done it.

I thought, I'm not doing it.

Now I've done it.

That's how it's going to be.

That's rejection.

You know, there's nothing worse than doing something, leaving it on the floor and then being told it's not right, So iikes, man, that had is some strong comments.

Winston.

You and I are both actors hearing that.

I mean, doing a whole movie and then going back home thinking you're done with it and you got to come back and do it all the lines all over again, completely different character, and you're not as inspired to do it because it doesn't make sense to you.

What are your thoughts to you?

And the thing is, like, I think for me, you know, I could see that in a situation where it could really rock your confidence, it could be really hard to go back.

I think the only way where I would do that is if they were like, look, we just realized we got to make the movie something different.

Here's more money, come on back.

I would do that because then I'd be like, you're gonna repay me?

All right, cool, But this idea of like, nope, that ain't it.

We we got to come back and do it again.

That would that would be soul crushing, and that is a quick way to break someone's psyche, especially because people got to remember this is this is art.

So like if I'm Disney, I'm lying and I'm like, no, no, no, no, the movie changed you.

You did great, bro crush that the movie is completely different.

Now that that's the only way I could hear that news and take it, and not because because it will you'll genuinely think you suck You genuinely think you suck ass after hearing.

Something like that.

Well, I here's the problem with the movie.

I like the movie up until we get to Ray Winstone and the Black Widows and all of that, because it's so cheesy and you can tell that he's not as invested as Rays.

A damn good actor, and Ray can be quite uh intimidating when you see him in some of the British stuff and what have you.

Even in the Departed he has some really chilling moments.

He's a damn good act.

So this gives me more context.

I do not forget what that he was in Departy.

Who was he departed?

He's a Jack Nicholson's second right hand man, that's right, Yeah, I just I just sow mister French.

Yeah, I just so see Leo and and Jack.

I can barely hold on to anybody else in that other than say yeah, yeah.

Right yeah.

But like you know, I've seen him in a number of British things.

He can be quite chilling when he's when he wants to be.

So to hear him put this in context for me, Now I can like look at his performance and go, oh, yeah, that makes sense because he doesn't look like he's invested.

He doesn't look like he looks like he's going through the motions a little bit.

Uh.

And so now you understand the reason is because he just wasn't that invested in the change they made to the character.

And so I'm curious, now release the Kate Shortland cut where he is this pedophile.

Again.

I don't even know how, you know what, go ahead and make him a pedophile.

It's totally fine.

I don't know how that even got through the system.

I mean, the truth of the matter is I read some of that off of what it just wasn't as a parent.

So I'll put it to you this way.

Tony Stark has a very specific and I wonder if part of that was maybe Robert wasn't ready to really dive into it, or if Disney was protecting their image because the kids or whatever.

Tony Stark has a very specific love storyline in the comics of him dealing with alcoholism.

Right Iron Man two.

They very lightly touch on it, but only with him at his birthday party.

And it didn't even ring of alcoholism as much as a someone being upset and so they get hammered at their birthday.

Was such.

It was PTSD like the beginnings of BTSD and all of that.

Right, remember, right, he was dealing with the PTSD.

And I think that that could have been a really interesting thing to watch him get into legitimate destructive behavior.

It doesn't have to be full blown alcoholism.

But if we had seen Tony he reverted a little bit, but if we had really seen him do reckless shit, Yeah, and he did a little bit like he again he got in the F one race.

That's clearly a cry for help like things like that.

But I think it would have been very interesting to see him as iron Man, almost get killed multiple times because he is because he's trying to work through his PTSD.

You know, he cuts it a little too close next to a missile and gets blown out of the sky and whatever else, and because you know, I have some trauma from my past and one of the things that like my therapist was telling me is we we have a tendency to act out like that, to do the self denstructive behavior to even emulated to try and process that trauma.

So I think that would have been a far more interesting kind of decision.

So I that being said, I got way off topic here.

I think that that would have like way off topic.

There's nothing about the widows that doesn't scream like some sort of pedophile or some sort of I own miss teen universal, I'm gonna go look at them change I own you.

That is, that is I got a baby bit of that in his character.

It would have been far more interesting.

I didn't need to see him abusing these girls, like absolutely not.

You don't need to do all that, but it would have been very interesting to see him truly lord over them versus justice kind of little speech, oh you can't touch me.

It would have been better to genuinely see him be this kind of sick Greek that is getting off on controlling these these young women, because that's what they were implying, but they didn't go for it, if that makes.

Sense at least The Windstone file three Winston.

Winston, Oh god, oh god.

Something occurred to me as you were talking just now, which has never occurred to me in my life Wins today, is that what if there's an alternate timeline where d C or sorry, where WB actually bought Marvel, not uh Disney, and they hired Zach Snyder, Zack Snyder to do Marvel for WB.

Imagine if they're imagine that world, because what you're talking about, Zack Snyder would be open to exploring alcoholism.

I think you'd be open to exploring the Isaiah Bradley stuff more and of being a black superhero in a white world.

Like there is a possibility where if Zack Snyder had ran hit the Marvel universe under WB's leadership, we would have gotten the dark edges of these characters that so many people enjoy seeing from the Marvel side of things.

Look what it got was amazing.

I'm not gonna say no, sure for.

Sure, but I the only thing about that, Yeah, I think the more time goes on, I only like, I think Snyder's movie is up to a point because to me, it feels like he's more into his stylization than really, in my opinion, diving into a lot of stuff because I think about Watchmen, and there's so much there in the Watchman graphic novel.

Yeah, so much, and we only kind of scratch the surface with his with his adaptation of it, but its stylistically look cool as shit, you know what I'm saying, Like three hundred same thing with that comic.

Well we kind of scratch the surface, but its stylistically just look cool as fuck.

And so it would be the same thing where people love to say when they're comparing Man of Steel to Superman now and a lot of this stuff is like, well, you know, part of the problem is it feels like there are things that he didn't understand about the care Oh man, what about Tom when he's daddy wouldn't let him say it?

And he was like, no, I was scared.

I don't know like you like.

And I was like, okay, sure, you started the process of going into it, and you had a very interesting conversation and response that I thought was very human and interesting.

Well, we don't circle back to that again.

The next time we kind of circle back and she was like, don't save me, kid, even though you technically could and nobody would know there is there'd been nothing about the government being on your trail.

There's nothing about like, you know, Zod is waiting, which of you is cal el?

Which one I want to see?

Save this man?

Do it like none of that.

Nobody would have known.

So that to me was like a narrative that that didn't make sense, and that was where then we're going for edgy and cool.

Then it then something that really dove in.

If that makes sense, you know what I mean?

It does.

I don't agree with you, but it does.

Which is fair.

But that that that is I love that moment.

I love that moment.

I think about him not saving his dad.

I'll defend men go for an hour on that.

That's fine.

Look we're five minutes, five minutes because then we got to make sure we get to the to the Amanda Seals.

Premise that nobody would know.

Of course they know.

People aren't stupid.

One minute you're there, one second you're there, the next second you see the dad all the way over there.

Everybody is watching the highway, so you see Jonathan Kent there.

If Jonathan Kent in the blink of his eye of an eyes, all of a sudden in front of you, you're gonna figure out something fucking went wrong, and you're gonna start asking questions.

And in the world, Zack Snyder laid out where Jonathan Kent is afraid of people finding out about his son, because he knows that this is a world that it doesn't want his son because he's an illegal alien.

He's an immigrant, he's a person who has a lot of power and could be could be damaging for them.

So it scares people because we know in real life human beings, and yes, Americans are scared of things they don't understand or don't know, and they constant and they hate it immediately because they can't control it and figure it out.

So Jonathan Cann in that moment, is telling his son, this is not the time to expose yourself in this moment.

I won't have you expose yourself and lose you just to save my life.

I'm giving my life for your life so that you could do because that's what I believe, and I think that's why the moment works.

And I cry every time at that moment.

Okay, because of his feelings over his dad.

I understand that point of view is what I took away as to what was trying to be said.

However, part of the whole lore of Superman and Batman and all of this continuously to that point.

How many times has Clark been in the middle of the Daily Planet and Brainya comes in and goes, Kyle, you will like literally one of the things that happens.

All yeah, you already talk about it.

When he's already Superman, He's already done.

This is a teenage kid.

I understand.

I understand that, But there also would have been something very powerful in that moment of Clark disobeying his father because the lesson that was taught about putting humanity above all else.

You know what I'm saying, there's there's a number one what I.

Get that, But the fact that he would there's still that because you.

Have to remember how op Superman is.

When I tell you he yes, he could have liked the flash literally been in saving now and back out, and nobody would have known that literally within his power, that is within his power scope.

If it was if we were showing that he was only at like fifty percent of his power, so he really couldn't pull that off.

If you would at least show me that beforehand, I would have bought that.

But we've already seen that he's already strong enough to do that shit, fast enough to do that shit that I was like, really, you're worried that they're gonna catch you?

You would have seen Jonathan Kent all of a sudden in front of you in the blink of an eye.

But to the crowd, you would have rushed his ass to somewhere else.

That's the other part that you're acting like there isn't like this is the last chunk.

Of earth right here and he can't come over.

You're going.

Let me think for you logically, as an older person, what a seventeen year old kid who just fought with his father in the car about his future is going to do and have the perfect instinct in that moment.

That's what I liked about Man of Steel.

He is becoming that hero that he's going to be at the end of the movie, and we're seeing him fall and make mistakes and make decisions and not be perfect.

And I love that about the movie, which is why that moment resonates with me, because it's a guilt he feels of a mistake.

That's why when he snaps Zod's neck and in essence disconnects himself from his entire home planet, the scream that comes out of there is the scream for the death of Jonathan and the death of his own father.

Biological father has gotten to know through the ship and killing Zodd, who he didn't want to kill, and.

Which I understand, I understand all of that concept, it's still to me feels somewhat of a weak excuse, only because okay, no, no, no, only because one of the things about Superman, specifically why he's interesting is not always at the fact of what Superman can do.

It's what Superman should do.

Sure, so if you really wanted to push him as far as things went with about saving Jonathan Kent or not or or not, it needs to be a scenario where John is over here and got trapped under a burning car and this tornado was about to kill a bus of children.

Do the trolley problem?

You do the trolley problem?

What do you say, now, it's a Clark, get out of here, save those kids.

That is a more interesting dynamic to have to do, which he ultimately kind of did the trolley problem with Zod at the end.

But the thing about that that feels weird is because instead of putting him in a similar scenario to the earlier thing, you gave him a different one.

If you had then done the Mirror of My Dad or the bush because he saves the kids, right, because that's how he was taught, and then you end up my cousin more or less my kinsman, the other last Kryptonian, or this poorness and family and my new home.

You are now.

Replaying the same thing, and he unfortunately has to make the same kind of decision of I gotta abandon this because it's the right thing to do, And that scream makes more sense to me.

You see what I'm saying.

Yes, I see what you're saying.

But narratively, that isn't the story he was telling.

Jonathan Kent was not teaching him to be the savior of humanity.

That's not what this Jonathan Kent was teaching him.

This Jonathan Kent was more about the reality of the actual world, not the Norman Rockwell Richard Donner Superman of the Superman comments.

This was a Jonathan Kent who questioned the world because he grew up at our world, our real world, our skeptical world.

You see what's going on in our streets.

Nowadays, you have a president that says there's too much slavery in the Smithsonian Institution, so you have people who are gonna judge in a certain way.

So he's telling his son to be more careful because he's meant for something bigger and it's not here at this level.

It's not here with with with them.

But of course he's also saying, you can take over the family business.

That's my complaint in that scene is that I don't get Jonathan saying to him that he should take over the family business when he also says you're meant for something more earlier when the situation happens with the kids and the bus right with that, when he gets almost exposed with that, that's to me the inconsistency in his thought patterns that I would change.

But the other part of it, I don't think Jonathan would allow him to save him over the kids.

I think Jonathan would tell him go save the kids if I will choice.

But the whole point of it is that he doesn't want him to expose himself at all.

But I but I guess my problem with that is you you already had that lesson in the movie previously, so to try and work.

Yeah, you see what I'm saying, so like it already doesn't like the way that you then decided to do the same thing again doesn't necessarily click.

But then also I think part of the problem.

I'm not saying that other Superman don't exist in other timelines, but you're getting closer and closer to an injustice Superman who very specifically goes full wrath on anybody that does wrong, versus this idea of this person that is genuinely a kind hearted savior and something we're supposed to live up to.

I'm supposed to live up to Superman.

He is supposed to to be better than what the realism of the world is.

So the weird part about trying to drill that lesson home that is not what I go to Superman for.

And that's the difference.

And that's where I always think the difference is between people like me who like Man of Steel and people.

I'd say I didn't like Man.

I'm just saying I have problems.

That will criticize it.

I guess I was sure because I think that is the difference.

I like that we're seeing the process with how he becomes.

You know why, because good people in our world become good people over trials and tribulations, mistakes, successes and failures.

They become good learning from those lessons.

And I know there's very rare person that starts out and is good from beginning to end, and so I like that we see that as it was a new way to tell that Superman story.

I personally enjoy it because I liked seeing him become that.

And at the end he is good and he's gonna be served humanity and he rejects his father's skepticism of humanity, says that specifically at the end, and I like that he becomes that, but he becomes Superman on his fucking term.

I guess I get that.

But then that also in my attel love me, he's.

Saying, I am worthy, and you will respect my space and my boundaries, and I will be there, but I'm not going to be You know this thing that you want.

To But I guess the only thing is you.

You again get closer to I mean, the bright burned child is actually a psycho.

We're now nine minutes.

I'm keeping I'm keeping I've been keeping track.

I said it at four fifty five, it's four if it's five or four at nine minutes, so let's wrap this up.

No, No, I saw I saw her say that.

I've literally been watching the clock and I realized how it's been going.

But but the thing about that I guess is that one of the things that we always look at mon pod Kent.

For sure, they're not perfect because they're human, but they but they but they end up being this kind of beacon for Clark to remain human.

That's the only thing about about drastically changing that that just becomes so on top of the fact that I think it would have been infinitely more powerful.

For Clark to.

Save the kids then save Jonathan.

But because he saved the kids first, Jonathan doesn't make it.

So think this is us.

I don't know if you ever saw that show, essentially what ended up happening with the family, a fire ends up breaking out.

Jack goes in to save the whole family and everything, but because he went in too much smoke inhalation dies.

If you would set up some sort of scenario where maybe Jonathan was helping him do it or something like that, or he went to Jonathan's second because he said save the kids like or whatever, things like that, or I will be okay, like don't expose yourself.

And Clark believes him, and he does make it out, but then he dies because of complications, and now he has to deal with the guilt of should I have listened to him.

You see what I'm saying.

His dad is assuring him.

I would have been I'll be okay, Clark, I'll be okay.

But then he's not okay.

You see what I'm saying.

Those are always that kind of dive to me into that complexity, but then really challenges this this otherworldly being.

Oh shit, but anyway, but.

Again, yeah, it's just it's just a matter of I like the way he laid it out.

I like the way he constructed it and the questions, and I liked it.

It's a father who legitimately understands how Americans can be quite skeptical things they don't understand it, which is dangerous.

Which is a thousand percent, which is a thousand percent fair.

The funny thing is, though about it that doesn't make sense to me, is there are other aliens, like a Martian Manhunter, which we see at the end of Justice League, that that's far more interesting to look into because of his family, you know what I'm saying, actual alien versus Clark.

Unless you saw him not getting shot by a bullet, you have no idea that he's an alien, you know what I'm saying, Like zero idea he's an alien, so.

Yeah, yeah, good point.

Like this, Blue Girl says, I blame Winston.

Never bring up man st I will fight to my dying day.

We'll just look at the Superman healthy debate.

I love it for all people.

We gotta throw We gotta throw out some topics though, because we're almost out of time.

But real quick, let's move on to Oh ok, let's real quick instance.

So much time on DC we were talking about Marvel.

Where do you think Marvel is now?

Let's keep it a sixty seconds.

Where do you think Marvel is now?

Uh?

Fantastic four is going to scrawl across the finish line like a runner at the end of a marathon who ran out of gas at twenty five miles.

Uh, to get to five hundred million.

This is not what they wanted from this movie.

And I already see the Marvel apologists out there saying, well, it was good given the circumstances.

What fucking circumstances are you talking about?

They they promoted this film like crazy, they marketed it like crazy.

They got a good director, they got a great cast, and they expected way more from this movie and it underperformed.

So now we've got Spider Man coming up.

We've got the Avengers films coming up.

But already people are like, you're not doing enough to build up to these Avengers movies.

I don't know if the Spider Man the movie is gonna work.

What are your thoughts of where Marvel is right now?

I mean, I think that they have a lot they have to work out.

I think you got to say the course.

I don't.

I don't think this is as damning as it's as it shows, because they still did make good money.

They did better this time around than Thunderbolts.

I think that the conversation that's been had across the board, you just have to cut budgets.

Like, I don't think none of this reads they're doing the wrong thing.

I think Thunderbolts, being how it was received and fantastic for how it's been received, just shows you have to cut budgets because no matter how good weapons is doing, let me tell you something, Weapons ain't gonna get near no billion, you know what I'm But what they did was what they what they dhuh.

But it's only made for thirty eight millions, so it's already made.

That's my point.

You just eat multiple budgets.

You just have to understand.

This is the reason why that's impressive for weapons is because it's like kind of the random thing and it was this horror movie and things like that.

Same thing with Sinners.

Sinners did fantastic again relative to how much you put.

Into the movie to take me.

Yeah, so I just think we need to understand there is a new upper limit to what movies will do in movie theaters, and only the billion dollar movies at this point are rare exceptions.

We just run, fortunately in a world where we thought that this is going to go on forever, and we're just not in that world anymore.

Yeah.

No, I do think adjusting the expectations is a valid thing to feel.

I don't think people say like we shouldn't expect billion dollar movies.

People will go Leelo and Stitch Dead, Wool of Wolverine, people will go.

It's just that is just accounting on those people to show up like we have in the past that no longer exists.

You have to really capture the pop cultures like Geist to get to that buillidy.

And to that point, you have to look at specifically what was going on with those and then I've talked about it on capes.

Know, we've debated it a few times.

A lot of those when you look at those scenarios, you look at the Marvel movies or whatever that did that, Top Gun, Deadpool, and Wolverine.

Yeah, Guardians Three, Spider Man, No Way Home, Avatar, all of those scenarios are all ips that were like building off of years and years and years of nostalgia.

Yeah, on top of the fact that they were good, but it was years and years of I have to go see Top Gun a seconds.

I gotta take my dad.

I have to go see Spider Man again.

They put so many Spider Man references from twenty five years worth of movies.

Hugh Jackman's doing Wolverine one last time, and he's doing it with Deadpool.

I love Deadpool.

You literally are taking Guardians, Holy crap, this is the last one.

You are literally taking years of build up.

That's where the a lot of that is coming from.

Versus I'll give you, say a Minecraft, which was close enough, that's still tied into a massive video game IP and things like that.

You made a good movie out of it and stuff like that.

Barbie massive IP.

Women audience that wasn't being tapped as much as it really should have been.

Those are all special kind of exceptions.

We've seen the superhero things so many times.

You better be a dead pull and Wolverine or an a Vendors Secret Wars to be able to pull some shit like that off.

At this point, that's just yeah, And I think you have to be clear that the it's clear that the Fantastic four brand is not as over with the casuals as it was as it is with the people in the bubble of Marvel and the bubble of comics.

Say not even Marvel comic book lovers, right, there were comic lovers love Fantastic Four, but the casuals because there haven't been good Fantastic for movies, no matter what Michael Chickliss is saying now, there have not been good Fantastic War movies and that affects the brand.

But I would push back a little bit on your comment and say this is still Marvel, so you can say in a vacuum there wasn't a build up to Fantastic four.

But Marvel itself is the machine that builds up these things, and they have not done a good job building up because of Thunderbolts can captain America four, and people forget Deadpool.

Wolverine was like, you know, we're going on almost two years ago.

It was in like February of last year, so it was a while ago, you know.

So these are these things you look at and time is time is relative now it ain't.

It ain't normal days anymore, and days are months.

It's crazy.

Someone someone asked, by the way of.

If Guardians made a billion, I brought up Guardians because it got damn close.

It was like eight seventy five something like that, and it's a hit.

That's a hit.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, Marvel would kill for eight seventy five on Fantastic four.

Right now, So all right, let's move on to some other thing.

Let's talk about this real quick.

I know'd a time, but what'd you think of the Spike League Colin Kaepernick's situation.

The They were working on a documentary series with ESPN, but in a joint statement issue to Ruters, at Least said that all three are quote collectively decided to no longer proceed with this project as a result of certain creative differences.

He adds that despite not reaching finality, we appreciate the whole work and collaboration that went into this film.

You know, last year boloneyal belony over at Puck News said that there were issues going on behind the scenes, that there were created different differences between Kaepernick and Spike Lee about the direction of this series.

And now we see that ESPN is pulling the plug on it.

Great to see Rich eisenback last night, but now you get news like this and you're like, well, clearly the ESPN is in bed with the NFL and they don't want anything that's going to stay in the NFL.

What are your thoughts on all this?

I mean, I don't know, man.

I In a statement in the Variety article, you know, it says, according to a source close to the project, the decision not to move forward was made last summer had nothing to do with the NFL, which earlier this month became a part owner of ESPN.

The Walt Disney Company owns eighty percent of the sports broadcasting giant.

Who's telling them that.

A source close to the project, Nobody says anything.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Like, there's some things that like, no matter what you say, optics or optics, they have always had issues.

The NFL has always had issues with Kaepernick once this whole thing started.

That's why the lawsuit went down, That's why.

He got paid out.

That's why he's not been able to play, both because he probably was playing some games, but also because it's real hard to sue your employer and then get the employer to like be like, here, have a job, you know.

So it sucks.

It sounds like it would have been interesting because I trust Spike with a lot of things, especially with the docuseries.

I think that that would have been fire.

But it's fine.

I mean the fact, I guess this is just a continuation because this was like announced over a year ago that they weren't doing this.

This is just Spike maybe re speaking on it a little bit.

No, No, it was announced that they were shopping it around possibly, but this is them.

But ESPN saying fully we're not going to put it up on the air are now at all.

So, but the other reports I read are that there were issues between Kaepernick and Spike Lee about the direction of the project.

So it may not be ESPN NFL related all.

As you were alluding to, Winstony might be right there.

So the question then becomes, like, what was Kaepernick trying to get out of this series.

And what was Spike discovering in the research for this series that maybe Kaepernick wasn't happy with and the direction Spike was going.

Spike's an artists, and Spike tells great documentaries that Four Little Girls won the New York City Epicenters won the Michael Jackson one.

He makes great documentaries, and so to me, I think maybe Kaepernick might have been upset where Spike was going with it, and maybe Kaepernick didn't like it because it was going to make him look a little bit like he was celebrity or a spotlight chasing and maybe Colin didn't want that.

So it's a shame because I would have liked a much more well rounded documentary that challenged us as viewers no matter what our opinions were coming into the project.

You know, yep, yeah, all right, we should get to these questions because you gotta get out of here in fifteen minutes.

So let's say, I know we had other stuff to talk about, but you know, that's the way the show goes.

Sometimes Matt Maker Studio says, what is your favorite Mexican tequila and favorite Mexican food?

Don't just say tacos, be specific.

I don't know.

I don't.

Uh, well, a chicken burrito, how about that?

A chicken burrito.

I'm not Mexican, so I don't, you know, have equie cuisine on Mexican food.

Uh?

And I eat Mexican food, But what are you?

I am a Bolivian descent.

My brother, my parents are South American.

Yeah, I honestly didn't know.

Yeah, I just, I just, I just I just referred to you as Latino because I honestly didn't know.

It with a broad stroke term.

I don'm not because I know that all various Latino cultures get very piste if you're like I had, like with like the old Chapelle joke where it's like I am not Chinese, I am Korean.

It's I'm not Mexican on Bolivia, bitch.

Cubans are the notorious for that.

I am not Mexican.

I am Cuban.

They are notorious for that so in our in our culture.

And I don't drink tequila, so I couldn't answer that question, to be honest with you.

Yeah, I don't drink tequila.

I drink I drink mescal.

I'm here to go out of mescal.

I do not I do not personally like tequila.

It's not really my thing.

Bad things happen to me when I have tequila in me, so it's.

Not even necessarily that I just don't like the flavor of it.

But like, I am a big Scotch guy.

So the minute someone was that if you tried mescal, I said, know, what the fuck is a mescal?

I said, yeah, I'll drink this all day.

This is fucking fantastic.

Yeah, I'm with you.

Scotch as well, Scotch and whiskey.

Karen, Karen Vonderman, what's that?

Karen?

Can't wait for Peacemaker this Thursday.

Are you guys excited for the show as well?

Thanks?

Yes, I have the first five episodes which I will be watching tomorrow and do a review as well.

But yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

When someone about you.

I can't wait.

I wish I had access so I could watch it beforehand and trying to react because I just need time to edit the reactions.

So the crappy part is is like drop some thirds.

I don't have anywhere near time, especially with this play going up, and trying to still recover to watch it react to it like you might just get a basic review out of me, guys, and that might be be the end of.

It, just for this sadly, but you know understood, Jason Ascrov says, I have been a staunch defender of bow to May.

I'll never say someone shouldn't speak out how they were treated.

That said, in my opinion, he's doing more damage to himself and his credibility at this point.

There's a reason lawyers and buy his clients to keep quite joining lawsuits, especially in wrong for firing cases.

I hope the best for bo.

I just believe he's not doing himself no favors.

At this point.

That is my entire point.

I think he came out of the gates swinging, and I thought that everybody's like, oh shit, okay, okay, okay, and then he just kept going.

So there's a reason why they say, if you're trying to like tell a lie, keep it simple, stupid like And I'm not saying he's lying, but you know what I'm saying where I'm like, when you go from like, so, what happened, man, dude came out of nowhere t bowmacar Damn.

That's crazy.

If like, man, so.

I was driving down the thing and I know that I was listening to UGK because I remember thinking I wone to Chapleads.

And then I get to the light right and I'm thinking I'm fine, so I start to go out, and then all of a sudden, I saw this old lady to fight and.

The squirrel across the street.

Bro.

And then while that happened, here comes this other car to nowhere, and I'm like, oh Jesus no, and that's happened.

At the same time, I knew that was going on because around that time, Taylor Swift came on and I was thinking to myself, Karma is a tee boned car like you.

Now, you're giving too many details without giving any actual proof of all of this.

So it just sounds weird.

So there's a point at which just be quiet and let this play out in court.

And then once you're past all the contractual stuff, hit him with everything, and now here's all my receipts.

It reminds me of the old bit for those of you who are old enough to remember, and you should go back and find this bit.

When Eddie Murphy talks is one of his first stand ups.

He has a bit about a guy who is a liar who watched a car accident and he added all this extra shit to it, like he got the guy got hit by the car and flew up into a planet.

Wait, that's a whole bit that Eddie Murphy does.

A whole bit, and you guys literally never heard that.

I swear to god.

I think he was saying, how the police always find the stupidest guy to ask about this stuff and put it on TV, like local news always find the dumbest guy.

Well, that's that's a pretty stated thing that black people talk about.

Eddie must have done a really good set about that.

Because if you were damn right eighties when he did this bit and he said, there's always they always walk up to that one stupid guy on and he's like, Yeah, I was walking around the corner, right, and then I see this guy right and he's coming out of the roads, and I had six flavors of ice cream, right, and then he had for ten minutes.

It's an incredible bit, I highly I'm sure it's on YouTube somewhere.

Jason Ashcrob says Winston is spot on.

Ray Fisher ultimately hurt his own case by speaking out too much.

Bo was making his lawyer's job impossible my best.

Yeah, just to reiterate your point, Jason appreciate that.

Thanks Chris.

Chris says, if you all get the time, spend fifty dollars and get the new Mafia.

It's said in nineteen hundred and Sicily and you're in the Mafia.

You both would love it.

Amazing game.

Nine out of ten.

Wow.

Yeah, I saw the trailer.

I almost did a reaction to the trailer, but I didn't because I'm not a gaming channel.

But I'm curious to play the game.

I'm almost done with my second pass of Tsushima.

Once I'm done with that, I'm gonna have to find a new game.

So maybe Mafia will be it because I love Mafia.

We'll see.

Corn Emperor says, highlight of the weekend.

I forgot the start time.

Ah, thank you for joining us anyway, corns Wayne Edward says, I love, love, love love the Man of Steel debate.

Man of Steel's in my top ten.

I love it.

That being said, I wish Clark could have saved his father and not killed Zod.

Still a nine out of ten for.

Me, and that that's it.

I like, I very much enjoy Man of Steel.

That was just.

My glaring issue with it, and I think we need to be okay given critique, of course, to the things that we enjoy and that we love as much as the things that we don't like, because if anything, if you only critique the things you don't like, it does at that point sound like maybe there's a little bit.

Of bias, you know what I'm saying.

Yeah, and I agree with you, Wayne, you know, I agree with the fact that it's nine out of ten.

It's nine out of ten for me, and it's probably in my top twenty, maybe even top fifteen.

To be honest with you, I love that movie so much, but like what you're pointing out, there are clearly I'd be a fool not to notice that quite a number of people have issues with that, and that has to be legitimate because there's so many people that have issues with it.

So it's a matter of taste.

Did you like it or not like it?

And that's always subjected.

I don't actually know the number of how many movies I've seen over the years, be bro, don't even sniff it my.

Top one hundred.

But I but I don't want to say that because I don't know how many because I, Jenny, don't know how many movies I've seen.

I feel like I have seen infinite movies.

But there are movies I've seen that I have forgotten about.

You know what I'm saying that that I'll never remember until someone goes, you remember that movie?

Oh shit?

Like so yeah yeah, And I mean top twenty, top ten of superhero He's not overall.

Okay, I thought you met the movies overall.

No, no, no, as far as like you've seen a lot of movies, bro, this is in your top twenty of all time.

I know.

I remember when they would run in the projector like this anyway.

Seattle, Bro.

I remember when the movies were something called plays.

Hey, my best friend in high school William Shakespeare.

Damn, bro.

Nobody knew Willy Shakes was gonna end up like that.

Bro.

I heard he was talking mad shit about the king all the time.

He would go on the town square.

It was called twittle.

He would go out there talking about man.

Y'all don't understand how the King told me I had to change my shit.

He said that this ship was tressed.

He runs this ship like it's a damn kingdom.

How damg he?

I just missed the days when tweets were sonnets.

That's why Seattle Cao said, have you guys played Sekiro Shadows Dyed so the neo games?

No, it's funny.

Someone ad Comic Con who met me for the first time.

We'd watched my stuff before.

A young kid and his girlfriend were there and they talked to me about Sekiro, and they're like, we saw you talk about Sushima.

You gotta play Sekiro.

It's amazing.

It's a two year old game.

It came out in p on PS four, so I see it.

It's available on Amazon for like forty bucks, so I may get it.

But he said their Ghost of Sushima type games.

CAPCN is about to bring back their only Musha as well.

Also, Roca, please feeld free me from the void and unhide me from the chat on your channel.

Thanks.

Wow, Look you talk shits.

Yeah, that's what happens to you when you get so.

I'll find you if I can.

Any of those games interest you or do you know about those games?

It was?

I am not familiar with them.

I actually have been going down a nostalgia path.

I just restarted Final Fantasy nine.

Oh wow came out when I was in like show my age.

I want to say, I was like what I had been earlier would have been middle school.

Wow.

As a matter of fact, let's see Final Fantasy.

What was the year?

Because I was about to say when I was in high school, but that doesn't actually make sense because it was PS one.

Ooh, yikes.

So this came out in two thousand.

Holy crap, it's been twenty five years, and I just randomly had an inkling.

I was like, I really want to play a turn based RPG, and I just this was the first Final Fantasy I ever played.

Was nine, So I was like, you know what, screw it, let's go for it.

Yeah, Tim says Winston.

Harlow refused this, but can you do a Johnny boy Snyder impression?

No, no, I'm not gonna have him do that.

Real question though, John the teo actors who got into all the two actors who got into a riff?

Where are they from the movies we saw this year?

Anyways, love the show and providing me a different perspective on topics.

Oh no, I'm not gonna I am not gonna tell you guys who it was.

I'm not gonna narrow it down.

What's that that we talk oh?

On Tarlov Show, I talked about how I'd heard from a couple of places that two well known actors on the set of Avengers Doomsday got into a fight because one actor made a off hand comment and the other actor was very upset about it, and it became an issue between them and verbal fight and got pretty heated, and apparently Marvel and the person was refusing to work with the other actor ever again.

On the set, Wow and Marvel had to come up with alternate plans of how they were going to shoot the movie or their scenes in the movie without the other actor in the in the scene because of that actor.

So when they proposed it to this actor, it was going to cost eighteen million dollars is the number I heard to do the reshoots for her stuff, for their stuff rather and and they they were like, well, the fact even made this effort, I will put my anger down and make amends.

And they both apologize to each other and moved on.

So in no way am I going to tell you the hell it was.

You guys are insane.

Afterwards we all played down here Jeorjie, what movies Matt Oh, Matt says rookie.

You know I love you and my hope asked mentor older brother who is hosting with you.

But if you want a Soups becoming Soups on his terms, small Smallville does it ten times better than Man of statement.

I like maths.

Smallville is a fucking CW TV show.

No damne, okay, no, no offense.

But I'm not going to see that and go like, oh this is it's not going to happen.

No offense.

But that's not how I see things, you know.

So it's up you all feel the free about Smallville, but it's not.

I'm not going to watch that and go, wow, this is really Tom Welling really, you know, come on.

Uh, Freantastic said, hey, Tequila, Marvel is in trouble.

They were supposed to be back on track after Quantumnia, and that was wrong.

F four was supposed to say it right.

They were wrong.

I'm standing strong with my statement that Kevin Figi lost the pulse of the people.

I think it's very possible.

Uh maybe he was at the party too long.

We're gonna find out, because I think Winston those two Avengers films are the make or break point for Marvel Honestly, if they don't get that right, man, it's gonna be slim pickens going forward.

And I think fiight, he's gone, what do you think?

Yeah, I mean that that is the cash cow.

So if it really, if if these two avendors movies don't hit.

That's a rap.

Yeah, they have to hit, especially because the next step is to get into X men.

So yes, they gotta hit.

Yeah.

Oh no, sorry, guys, I said her.

I meant to say them, so it's not I'm not going to specify sex on the persons that were involved, So I just misspoke.

People are like, oh, we found it out, mister Pappy, says f Chris Pratt.

There you go, all right, Oh I think that's everything.

I gotta hear man, it's for ninety minutes, so we got a roll.

When's the Please let people know where they can find you when all the stuff you got going on?

Brother man, Yeah, you can find me at the Swagy blurting on platforms.

My relay out of the theater reaction the movie drops on Thursday is out.

I saw it again last Monday, and I apologize.

It took so long for me to get this out.

I got sick the very next day, so I just really haven't had the energy set.

The only thing I needed to do was edit a thumbnail, but that just goes to show how sick I was.

And I was like, I can't like anybody that was watching this show it was remember, I was kind of like, Okay, let's do what we can here.

Yeah, for those in Sault Capes and cows and I recommend you go and watch it.

There were a couple of times where brain fog hit so hard.

Christian was like, what do you think about that?

Winston and I was like and He's like hello, and I was like sorry, and they were like, damn bro really okay, okay, oh my god, yeah, my roadcaster, don't do that.

I got on.

I got th noo special effects on this mo fuckers.

Shout out to Karen.

It is her birthday.

To Karen's faithful watcher of the stuff we do here Channel Birthday, Karen, Happy birthday day, over twenty five.

You look fantastic.

I love that asked me.

You can follow It looks a lot like my my my mother in law.

Really yeah, maybe something there.

Subscribe down below, hit the bell button, leave all your comments on things we talked about.

And don't forget the John Rogan channels also its own podcast networks.

Please subscribe wherever you a download podcast would love to have you.

In case you don't want to watch winston Ey's faces, you can always listen to us, all right, take care of yourself.

Well, someone says I pulled a bitch mcconda and frozen care.

Bro's exactly what it was.

All right, Well, let what's the rest and we'll talk to you guys next time with another brand new live episode of Spilled the Tequila.

Peace y'all

Okay,