Hello everyone, this is W, host of the High Arts on the Edge page, host of two podcast features, one PCE, which stands for Post-Concert Energy, and the one you're listening to right now is known as Surprise Cast.

And we are going to leap and hurdle across the pond all the way to UK.

We have a very special guest here today to talk about life as a performer, a musical, Based on the wedding present and so much more, let us bring to surprise cast studio, Zoe Allen.

Hello.

How are you?

I'm very good.

How are you?

I'm doing fine.

How has your fall season been?

You know what?

I've really been embracing fall so far.

I also love the word fall.

It sounds so much more whimsical than autumn does, in my opinion.

But I'm enjoying it so far.

It's very nice.

What have you been up to?

Well, I'll be honest with you, I'm more of a summer person myself.

So this fall, I'm really trying.

I'm saying fall now.

I'm taking your Americanism.

I've been trying to embrace it a bit more.

So I've been doing a few walks.

I've been drinking some hot drinks.

Very nice things, you know.

Are you gearing up for Halloween?

Yeah.

Well, funnily enough, this Halloween is going to be a bit of a weird one because I have my graduation on Halloween this year.

So it's my graduation on Halloween, which I hope is a good omen, not a scary omen.

It's exciting.

Tell the listeners, what are you graduating from and where?

So I've just graduated from Leeds Conservatoire.

I've, let's go!

And I have been doing musical theatre for the past three years, BA degree.

And yeah, that's it, I'm graduating on Friday, and then that's all that sort of chapter done.

How do your parents feel about that?

Oh, I mean.

They're very excited for us.

A course like that can be very grueling.

I think anyone who's done a performance drama school course will agree.

It's very time consuming.

I feel like this is the first time in three years where I've actually been able to just stand still and just sort of see life as it is, which is crazy because I've been so busy for three years.

So my mom and dad are glad in that regard.

I think they like, my mom especially is very happy to have me home other than the fact that I've been, you know, tucking back into the cupboards and the food supply.

But other than that, they're having a great time with me back.

I'm going to throw some icebreaker questions your way.

Are you ready?

Yeah.

Come on then, yeah.

Okay.

These are just a little silly and fun.

Okay, let's do it.

If you could only eat one type of food for the rest of your life, what would it be?

Can I ask a question about this?

Can I have like a variation of this thing or can it be one version of it?

Slight variation.

Okay, okay, okay.

So I'm going to go for a ramen, and I'm going to, my favorite is a chili chicken ramen, but if I'm allowed like a variation, I'm going to sort of vary the stuff I'm putting in there.

But you can't go wrong with a ramen, I feel.

No, you can't.

I love a ramen thing.

It's great.

All right, here we go.

Another one.

Let's go.

If you were to choose, and you had the opportunity to be a superhero, who would you choose?

You know what?

I am not the most agile of humans.

If you know me, you know that I'm a little bit clumsy, so I feel like it would be so fun to have sort of like a Spider-Man sort of vibe about me, where I can just flip around everywhere and just, I mean, that would be sick, really, wouldn't it?

Maybe that's what I want to do.

You're rocking good time.

Alright, let's do one more Nice, okay, Tell the listeners and me a favorite childhood toy, and do you still have it?

This might be a bit of a cheat, really.

But when I was younger, me and my brother, we were like, well, there's two things I could find.

One was I had this, it was called a running bike.

Essentially, it's just a bike, but without the pedals.

My auntie got it for me.

And basically me and my brother was next next to my house there was like this massive hill it was it was not that big but when you're little you know how everything sort of seems.

And one day we were we had this great idea that let's go to the top of this hill on my running bike and just go down this hill and I did just mention to you I'm not the most agile of people so you can only imagine how this ended up for me I mean like my mom when she saw what I was trying to do she's like no more this will be no more but that running bike was i felt powerful on it man like it was it was great so i'd say that and then later on again me and my brother we were quite big fans of the way the good old way we were big mario fans so anything mario bros mario galaxy all of that stuff that was my that was my loved it well you passed the icebreaker questions Congratulations Yay I'm so glad I'm gonna read Something to you From Good grief The peanuts Pick me up Fabulous I don't know If you're familiar With Charlie Brown And the peanuts He's not on my radar I'll be honest Okay Well He's been on my radar Since the early 80s Wow And the comics Are very simple But sharp And poignant Okay, I'm going to read something to you.

Charlie Brown and his sister are at home.

Charlie Brown is watching television.

His sister, Sally, walks in and she says, has school started yet?

Charlie Brown is staring at the TV and he says, good grief.

No, it doesn't start until September.

Sally says, well, I don't want to be late on the first day.

Charlie Brown says, well, don't worry.

It doesn't start for another 11 weeks.

And then she says, maybe I better take my coat off.

So you may be wondering, what is W going to ask you?

Very simple.

Tell us, when you were younger, your school experiences, did you enjoy it?

Were you a mind drifter?

Did you get rid of all that stuff?

Well, I did love school.

I always found myself sort of, I've been quite similar since I was little, especially when I think back to my time in primary school.

I was always busy.

i used to be the type of kid to do everything as in like any club i could be a part of i always like used to laugh with my mom about this about how there was a point where i wouldn't actually come home on time any of the days because i felt every single day with a club and they were just the most random clubs i was in animation club radio club choir yeah all the clubs that you a big end.

And I just think I don't think that's ever changed.

I think school was like.

It's primary school specifically i was very much the kind of person who liked to just be involved in everything and i think that's probably why i do what i do now because i i love just being involved in lots of different things but i loved school i was very lucky i had a great time in school and your social life i say it was i think it was good i went through that phase so you know how some you know when you're a kid you're a teenager and you go through that phase of i'm I'm too cool for this stuff.

Like, I sort of fell out of love with theater and stuff that I love now.

I say fell out of love.

I sort of put that boundary up of being like, I'm too cool for this.

But I had a drama teacher who kind of forced me to do things that made me uncomfortable, and it got me straight back in the loop.

And yeah, that got me to doing this now.

And your parents, you just mentioned that you like to put your hand in a lot of different jars.

Yeah.

where does that come from mom or dad or both well it's funny because i don't know because like my mom and dad are both especially with the creative arts neither that's not their bag at all like do you know how some people come from quite dramatic families and then it passes on through i think with my family we actually sort of skipped a few generations because my dad loves music and the arts but they're not creatively driven i think in the same way that i am my grand great grandma though she was so we always sort of think well maybe it was like a generational thing where i just sort of skipped there and it just sort of landed in in me i guess you also mentioned that you really enjoyed school you didn't have any struggles at all any what sorry struggles i was very lucky.

I really was.

I think the main thing that I struggled with was that I definitely went through a phase where education in itself wasn't something that I prioritised, as in I.

Focused I suppose which now looking back on it I regret I mean I wish I could go back into a French class and actually pay attention or go into a history class and actually because I love that stuff now and I'm like oh so you had it right in front of you and when you're in school and you're sort of going through this phase of that's just school you don't realize how important those things are or to me how important those things are so I do think that's the main thing I would go back and change now, if I could.

You're close to your parents?

I am, yes.

Tell us about it.

What do they do?

My mom works at a college and my dad works at a council, so it's very local sourced jobs.

Yeah, that's sort of the vibe that they do.

That's wonderful.

Who are you most like, mom or dad?

It's a hard question because I think as I get older, I realise I definitely have bits of both of them in me, but my mum, I think, were just so...

Basically, I started working at a pub near my...

over the summer last year.

It was like a part-time little job and people would come in and they wouldn't even have to talk to me and they would know that I was my mum's daughter.

They'd be like, you're Deborah's daughter, aren't you?

And I go, no.

Which is lovely because obviously, I mean, I love my mom so much.

So it's always a compliment to be told that you like your mom, you know.

It's a joy.

In terms of growing up, tell the listeners, where did you grow up?

Yeah.

So you might be able, some people might be able to identify my accent.

Some people kind of don't.

Some people think I'm Irish or I'm Welsh, which is rogue, but I'm not.

I'm from the Northeast.

I'm from Gateshead, which is a little city just off of Newcastle.

Um it's the north of england so we're talking like the very top of england that way that way why am i picturing it to be very cold oh it's cold it's cold yeah i think the most impressive thing so it's kind of like a known thing it is very cold here but in like winter time people are just built different here like it'll get around this time yeah you'll go out in town like on like a night out or something and there's girls just with no jackets on just brave in the cold i mean you have to respect it you know i mean was music a big part of your upbringing.

Yeah i think it was my dad is very musically inclined and he likes a big variety of music so i think i grew up on the things he enjoyed and my mom and dad are very much the type of parents who like like on a weekend they'll be sat in the living room and they'll just have like music channels playing all the time so I'd always sort of get into music that way as well but I think, it had a big impact on me the kind of the guy enjoy because of the music they enjoy.

So tell us some of that.

My dad was very much into bands like, oh, he loves Arctic Monkeys, Paul the Smiths.

Let's go.

Oh my gosh, it's like we planned that.

Queen, I like lots of different things.

Funk, disco, soul, like lots of different genres.

Yeah, no particular kind.

Let's go.

Should we sing the national anthem together?

How are you like, it's like you knew that I was going to say these things.

You've just got random props just ready to pull out if and when.

Yeah, but lots of different genres And I think I've got a very eclectic music taste now And that was definitely influenced by them The wedding present Yes, We will get into their impact a little bit later But I'm going to share this with you now My brother came home with a CD And on that CD it was a compilation And it had like spiritualized felt The wedding present And he handed it to me He goes, oh, I think you would like this, I put in my CD player, and the wedding present came on.

I think it was track number three, four, whatever.

This is back in 1989 or 90.

Within seconds, I fell in love with the band.

My question now for you is, tell us some bands that you instantly gravitated towards.

This has changed for me recently.

so I mentioned to you I went to Leeds for uni the great thing about Leeds at uni is it's a conservatory so it's not just to perform an art school there's lots of different music courses there and I was introduced to a variety of genres I've never really been in the mix of before i went there and um a genre i really fell in love with was jazz music i never really listened to jazz music before but the music scene in leeds there's a massive jazz culture there there's a jazz festival every year and i remember i was sat listening to some of the bands i mean it was actually during my first week of uni in a freshers event i went to a band called heritage.

And I remember being in that audience and just thinking wow like this isn't just technically amazing it just it just felt amazing to listen to I don't know it just it's it just was such gorgeous music because it wasn't just jazz it felt like a mix of jazz and soul and a little bit of funk I just never heard anything like it before so I think the band Heritage it sums up my time at uni and it means a lot to me that sound means a lot to me now.

So I would say that is the first one that comes to mind.

As I mentioned, a lot of bands, probably of more of an influence from when I was younger.

So The Smiths, I love The Smiths.

Queen, I've always loved Queen.

I don't think I'm going to even think of it.

Yeah, just a real variety, really.

It's strange though, because there's not really a particular sound that I gravitate towards.

I just, I love a mix.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's wonderful.

Your palette is wide and diverse, it sounds like.

Yeah, I'd hope so.

I mean, I'm always open to hearing other sounds, things that I've not heard before.

I'm very open to that kind of thing.

Before we get into your role as a performer, I do want to ask you this.

The past really connects to our present, right?

Yeah, for sure.

Can you tell the listeners and me an extremely impactful moment during your childhood or teenage years that still lingers in your mind today?

Yeah.

Let me just think of one.

So I told you earlier, I had this drama teacher in school.

And I remember when I was first realizing how interested I was in the common arts, there's a fear there I think because there's always that thought of yeah but what if it doesn't happen like what if this is if this is just sort of something I'm wishing for that won't happen and I actually found a document I'd wrote to myself um like a little like diary entry kind of thing and in the diary entry I was so set with English language at uni and I wasn't going to do anything to do with this.

But I had this teacher in school who, she was just sort of, she always pushed me to do the things that I never really thought I could do.

I had to perform an assembly in front of a bunch of people who were like my, and I don't know about you, but at that age that is the scariest thing someone can ask you to do because it's like, oh my life will be over, I'm I'm doing something a bit scary in front of kids my age, but I did it.

And I remember I was like, maybe I can.

Maybe I can do this, actually, because that wasn't that bad.

And I still am really grateful for the community of people that I built up in that place because they definitely made me realize that this is possible.

So I think that's probably a starting point.

That is so refreshing to hear, and I'll tell you why.

I was an elementary school teacher for over 20 years.

I used to encourage my students to step out of their comfort zone every day.

Yeah.

Whether that be a small step or a big step.

And I would use music and the performing arts to help encourage that.

Some of the kids were terrified.

Yeah.

Because they had to get up and do a lot of improv.

They would sing, whatever it may be.

Mm-hmm.

And some kids fought me.

tooth and nail.

Mr.

Frederick, I can do it.

I can do it.

I won't do it.

I won't do it.

So I would try to make accommodations to help that student.

And when they did it, they felt so powerful.

And they could flex their little muscle.

These are 9, 10, 11-year-olds.

And so I love hearing that story, which you're able to share there.

Yeah.

I think I know the mentality that I've I've picked up recently I heard this really beautiful saying that everything that will advance you make you bigger and better as a person happens in a place where you're really uncomfortable you have to do these things that make you comfortable to expand as a person and I do try to keep that with me because there's lots of things especially I mean this year especially that I've done where I thought my god I would rather run out that door than doing this thing that I'm out to do but I did it and I survived it but not only survived it like I did it and I I think it went great and that's such an accomplishment and it just makes you feel good about yourself so it's it's a really important thing to do things out of your comfort zone otherwise you don't expand in my opinion if you were right if you were to identify yourself as having, Three major characteristics that kind of define who you are.

Tell us those three.

Yeah.

Gosh, it's hard, isn't it?

I would say warm.

I've always, I've always prouded myself on being someone that if people are around, I do my best to make them feel comfortable and safe and nice, friendly, and maybe ambitious.

I have a lot of ambition.

So with ambition and drive.

Yeah.

How has that helped you in your life?

I think you have to back yourself to do anything that's creative because there is the element of competition, but also you can't doubt yourself.

Otherwise, you're going to be your own worth enemy.

So I think the ambition has always told me, even if something doesn't necessarily work, there's another chance coming or something else will come and I will back myself and carry on through that until it is my time or something great comes along because I do believe those things will happen.

So it's just being able to put yourself through time of certainty, I think.

Trust yourself too.

I'm going to ask you a very difficult question.

Go on then.

Yeah, go on.

So follow along with me.

During the school day, sometimes I would call the students over from their desks to sit with me and go over their work.

And we would talk quietly so the other kids weren't really hearing us.

And they were busy doing projects, whatever it was.

And I had a student that had pretty bad ADHD.

And we started talking about it.

And he said, I can't do this.

I can't do this.

I can't focus.

And I said, you know, everything I hear from you might be true.

But what if we were to flip that?

What if we were to change a different perspective?

And he said, what do you mean, Mr.

Frederick?

And I said, how can you look at your disability in a positive way?

Yeah.

It took him a while to understand that.

So I'm going to ask you.

Any internal struggles, any challenges that you have faced that you've learned how to now use as a positive?

Yeah.

Oh, I've got a big one, actually.

Let's hear it.

so in drama school I had an injury I basically I had a vocal injury and that was just sort of it was so hard to mentally physically of course it was an issue but I think mentally was more of a struggle and I I had to do a lot of my most important part of training under those circumstances and even though it was really hard and there was lots of times where I felt like it wouldn't work out I'm happy it happened actually because I came out the other side with a lot more knowledge and self-awareness and I guess I'm just more proud of myself for everything I achieved because of the fact that I did it under those circumstances because it's hard to back yourself anyway never mind with that mental toll on top of you, So, yeah, I think it's strange because if I were to go back now, I probably would do it again and not question it as in I wouldn't want to change it.

Even though it caused me a lot of stress, it was worth it for the knowledge I've gained from that experience.

So how do you view conflicts, conflicts with family members, conflicts in relationships, conflicts with teachers, conflicts within yourself?

Do you see them as major hurdles or do you see them as challenges probably say i see them more as i'm talking especially about them within myself i don't think i've got to a point now where i don't think it's useful for me to to battle myself on things because it's not helping anyone i think i just have to take a minute to just step back think it through and try not stress out about it otherwise i'm not helping anyone that goes for any sort of conflict i suppose.

Communicating that through myself is really important yeah and it's tough right as we mature and develop more skills tend to gain more confidence in the areas that list more challenges and now we're going to move the needle one groove over and we're going to talk about your role your desire to be a performer so i could sit here and tell you for hours movies that have literally impacted me but i'm gonna tell you one poet society with robin williams great.

And the reason why I'm sharing that with you is because that literally transferred itself into my role as an educator.

Every day, I would try to spin new ideas and make new connections with my students.

Yeah.

So Robin Williams was right there.

Ethan Hawke was there.

Peter Weir, the director.

So tell us some actors, actresses that have inspired you along the way.

It's so interesting you know because i try to think back to when i first started enjoying.

Any of this and i cannot put a pin in it i just i couldn't tell you what it is all i remember is when i was younger i was one of these i was one of these kids who do you know that that one cousin in the family who is getting the whole family to do like a show and everyone else is like oh just we just want to eat with christmas dinner like come on like otherwise i'm like get up guys chop chop let's do this right now action go and i remember when i was younger i used to get so there was me my cousins we're all very similar ages i used to audition them bear in mind none of them none of them enjoyed this but i'd get them to come into a room and i'd go i'd sit with my papers and i'd audition them for a show i'd write and i don't know where that came from because I think I don't think there's a particular actor or even like a movie that inspired me I think I just I naturally gravitate towards that kind of lifestyle more I guess I liked that that energy and that and that vibe and that performance thing and as I got older and I was introduced to shows movies I think that's when I thought this is where it all fits but I guess it was an internal yes I'm just internally quite bossy and creative a mix of the two and that's how it came about so no performances by kate winslet.

Well, you've got to love Kate Winslet.

I mean, that can't be denied, but I don't think so.

Which is, now that I say it out loud, it's quite, you know what will happen?

I'll probably come off of here and something will come back in my brain and I'll have to go WF.

I thought something.

So if something comes up, I will, I'll let you know.

You can always AI you back in.

Brilliant.

Great.

Okay.

Let's talk about acting, yeah?

Let's go into a more technical aspect to it nice now i'm no trained actor so what i've heard by watching actors talk about stanislavsky the great russian.

Drama-based actor if you will teacher scholar and he talks a lot about emotional memory yeah so when you were recalling personal experiences to well up to generate those feelings in your performances and the acting that you do yeah that's something you feel comfortable doing yeah i think the way i've been taught we were always it was always made very clear if you're drawing on emotional memory don't take it to a place where you're gonna really like reap the effects of that because sometimes it can be draining and it can really weigh you down so I think it's for each person finding a way of getting to that place that isn't unhealthy because that can be a lot I personally really like Meisner technique I'm actually if you've heard of Meisner technique before it's it's similar to Stanislavski in the case of your drawing in on emotion it just felt more accessible to me and I enjoy that kind of work.

Why?

I remember, well, I think it's the feeling of it.

There's no other reason other than we did a lot of different kind of practitioner's work.

And I remember doing a Meissner technique with my friend.

And basically the exercise just consisted of us saying a sentence back and forwards to each other.

But you rely, it's not about the words anymore, it's about the feeling underneath.

And I think that was the first technique that took me out of the words and into the emotion of a character.

Done more I wasn't thinking about the things I was saying it was more about how I was feeling and how I would translate that into the script then and I just think it was the best way for me to translate those feelings in a healthy way rather than drawing on things that make me exhausted to be honest because I think especially when you're doing something that requires a lot of emotion I think there's like a tendency to panic a bit and be like I need to stir up big emotions to make this look good but that would kill you man if you did that every single night like that would be is a lot so it's accessing that in a way that's more safe i think is it hard for you to draw and conjure up overexcited emotions or tempered simmered emotions it really depends you know.

Because i mean i'm just going to use reception with it being on topic it was a scene where there was sort of like a bunch of girl like gal pals which was one of my favourite scenes that we did and the energy in that scene was quite big and happy and full of life and I think under those circumstances I didn't struggle with that kind of play and, In comparison, I've done things before in uni where I had to play over-the-top big characters.

And sometimes it's hard to draw those emotions, which are in a similar vein, but I guess it depended on the day or what I was working with.

Yeah, it just depends, really.

We're going to do something a little different in this next segment of the conversation.

I'm going to read three quotes to you.

Yep.

and as a performer and actor i'd love for your response here we go the first one is from michael kane the great actor and he says this the job of an actor is to bring a scripted character to life.

The essence of the job is not to show oneself but to disappear into the, what are your thoughts on that i think it's it's i mean i agree in the sense that performing it's not i was gonna say i agree because i feel like it's not about you anymore but then, whenever i've worked in a character i i find it hard to not take some of you into it that's just how it feels sometimes but i guess that's the thing of how people work isn't it because some people completely don't want to have any resemblance of themselves in a character but sometimes I guess if you're playing a character especially one that almost has similar qualities to you it is easy to almost go how would I feel in this circumstance that's.

I guess as I'm doing jobs, I'm learning these things and what works for me, because I'm still very, I'm still very much, I mean, you never stop learning these things.

So it's, I agree with what you said, but it's, it's just from person to person how they work.

So what helps you, Zoe, disappear to the character?

A lot of contextual work, I think.

I did a show in uni called Pippin and my character was, it was very open to interpretation in the sense of who that person was and the backstory of that person.

The minute I was able to create a contextual backstory for them, it allowed me to sit in it a bit more and exist as a person a bit more.

Rather than it just be given what is on paper it becomes who your version of that person is and it allows you to just be in their world a bit more in my opinion even if that world is a bit darker i would say so yeah ready for your next quote yep go on then next quote goes like this this is from an actress by the name of annette benning great american actress and this is what she says acting is not about being famous it's about exploring the human soul i love that i do too and i'm gonna ask you because i think there's a kind of a hybrid here i imagine as an actor you want some recognition mm-hmm.

And there are some people listening to this going, I want it all.

I want that.

I want to be famous.

Yeah.

While exploring the human soul.

Yeah.

Which part of the seesaw are you on?

I've actually had this conversation before with a few of my friends.

It's a very interesting thing to me how hand in hand those things are in this world.

How you reach a level of success and that instantly translates to fame for some people.

I definitely would, if it was my ideal world, I would love to be in a world where I can do a job I love that makes me feel creatively fulfilled.

And being recognized for that is a lovely thing.

But I think fame comes with limitations and that's scary a little bit.

I don't like the idea of you having to give up yourself to other people.

I just think the idea of fame is so dystopian sometimes, but I love what I do and I would love to be able to be recognised in a way of my work is recognised but not in a way that it would become too much but I very much think that, I didn't choose to do this because I want to be famous.

That's not my opinion on it at all.

I could go my whole life and not be famous, and I think as long as I'm creatively fulfilled, I'd be happy.

Just doing the job.

In an ideal world, I would love to just be making enough, so that I can sustainably do this job.

That's the dream.

The fame side of it, if that comes, it comes, but it's not my driving force.

So what's the backup to this?

Hmm, good question.

As in, what career path would I fall back on?

I always gravitate towards people, I think.

I love talking to people, getting to know people.

So I don't know what that looks like.

But I know that if I'm following that, that it would be something that involves communicating, meeting, and being around other people.

That is my sort of ballpark.

That doesn't just mean the creative arts.

I think that just means in general sort of being around people, whatever that means.

In other words, who knows?

It's very much up in the air.

And you've got plenty of time to figure that out.

You have time.

Let's do one more quote about acting.

Here we go.

Lynn Redgrave.

Ooh, what an actress she was.

She says this.

Acting is not about dressing up.

Acting is about stripping bare.

to unveil, parts of yourself so strangers can see inside the lens you know world yeah how do you feel about that being bare being naked in that sense you know it's so weird because it's vulnerable like it can be it can be so vulnerable i mean in order to give an honest performance you have to unlock something that translates to other people they watch it and they see themselves in you almost and to do that it's it's getting to a level of emotion and honesty that is really vulnerable and I think that the thought of that can be uncomfortable.

It's almost cathartic, weirdly.

I found that when I've done things that make me feel the most bare, it's actually allowed me to relate to the most honest parts of myself.

And the more that you do that, the less scary it becomes.

It's not so much scary, it's more invigorating.

I love anything that allows me to do that.

You probably know actors, actresses that have been asked to do things that are completely out of their comfort zone yeah that could be in the form of swearing on stage.

Being the form of showing more of their skin yeah have you been asked something on that realm where you're like oh my god i just can't do this right now i've been very lucky i think every creative team I've worked with have been very open and honest in the sense of let's do this as a collective and if you are uncomfortable with something we're not going to force you to do anything you don't want to do.

Of course there's been times where I've been asked to do things that are god this is nerve-wracking but it's never been in a way of something I don't want to do it's more something that as I said earlier pushed me out my comfort zone but in a way that was good for me.

I don't think I've ever been able to do anything where I thought this is not me and long may that continue because I feel sometimes especially when you're young in the arts you want to be and you're in a room you want to be there for everyone all the time and and being the best version that you can be all the time and doing this doing this doing this in order to maintain a sort of reputation and be on it.

But you should always prioritize your needs and what makes you comfortable first.

Because doing a job and not feeling comfortable, like it's not worth it.

No matter how much it might advance your career, if you in turn are giving up something that you don't want to, that's not okay.

There's got to be that fine line.

Because as you have just shared with us, Zoe, that you like to teeter a little bit on the edge of being uncomfortable.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so if an actor, an actress takes a role in theater, in the movies, where they are being asked to do something on the complete opposite side of themselves, some may look at that and go, hell no, I'm not giving my soul for that.

Yeah.

But they might also have that internal struggle, like thinking, wait, that could also be a challenge for me.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And I think that's a very personal thing to determine.

Because what I might find as a limit, someone else might think, oh, I don't care about that.

I might learn from that.

I'm going to do this.

But you yourself, you have to trust your gut, I guess, in that sense.

You just know when it's something that's going to advance you with something that might hinder you also.

I think that's a personal thing.

Have you done movies?

I've done film work and training, but I really only graduated, what month are we even in?

It's October.

I only finished uni in June.

So it's all brand new for me now.

So I would love to do movies.

That is the hope.

And you're ahead of me because that's what I was going to ask.

Is that something you would entertain?

Absolutely.

I've always said, theatre is my love above everything else because I don't think there's any feeling quite like a live performance.

I just...

It just...

It's just...

Can't even describe it it's just a feeling you know like it's it's just different but.

I love movies and film and that would be something that i'd love to explore in the future 100 percent before we go into this musical that you were just in yes i do want to ask you one more question because it's it's always been fascinating to me okay so i've read reviews i've seen interviews where actors, actresses in movies, it could be PGR, pornography, whatever it is, and they are done with their work.

Some have a hard time turning off their characters, and some can go, you know what?

That's just my job.

I'm done with it for the day.

I can go home and make my relationship.

My question for you, Zoe, is it hard for you to turn off the valve whilst you're in a performance yeah i've i would say no.

However when we did reception there was a scene in reception where am i allowed to explain what the scene was i don't know if this is like a spoiler for any case it has a future life but i'll do it briefly.

There was a scene that required a lot of emotion from a lot of the characters on stage.

And I think that was the first time where I had to really go to myself.

All right, Zoe, like it's just acting like we just have to go through.

And it was interesting because I had to then think of new techniques in order to be like, right, let me turn this off now because I can't take this into the next scene or the next part of the evening or anything like that.

Because then it's not healthy for me so i don't struggle with it i haven't struggled with it but it is something that i was introduced to for the first time where i had then had to think of ways to deal with that so it has happened to me before where it has been half turn off it just depends on the scene i guess yeah and knowing myself it would be very hard because i get so immersed inside that head that world yeah and even when i was teaching which is nowhere to the level of what you're doing but when reading a book to my students i would completely lose myself in the characters and pick on different access and i would find even after school i would kind of talk like that character i'm like what am i doing what am i doing and i you know if i find a mirror Sometimes I take on Robert De Niro and do Taxi Driver.

It's very hard for me, even again.

But this is the thing.

I always find that some people have that.

And I've kind of been like that always where when I'm younger, I've invested in creative things quite a lot and I hold them in me.

But that isn't always like a negative thing or like an unhealthy thing.

It can actually be the opposite for me.

I sometimes find that when I intake all of these things, it sits in like a nice little place that I care about so much.

But it is being able to, if it's too much, being able to distance yourself from it as well is very important.

Have you been asked to call upon your emotions that have nothing to do with your gender?

Meaning, have you been called to portray someone that has more masculine qualities to themselves?

Yeah, I have.

And I loved it.

In training, we did this, talking about things that really pushed me out of my comfort zone.

This was before I did a lot of my sort of more public things.

It was when I was probably a bit more in myself.

We had this class, and it was basically a class where we had to do big character, song numbers, musical theater songs.

And I did a song from a show called Something Rotten, and the character I played was William Shakespeare.

And william shakespeare's character in this is played by christian ball originally and it's just the most flamboyant but sort of peacock masculine energy thing and i basically in order to like get into it the class was singing integration with a woman called anna bosch and she is fabulous she's an amazing teacher and we all sort of to do this class we all came in like dressed up as our characters and stuff we really we had to come into the class and it was almost like improv you had to sit as your character you had to give your music your character to like the pianist and you just had to be that character you just had to exist as them and I remember like beforehand I was thinking what the hell this is terrifying but the minute you get in there and you just exist as that person you just have it was like 110% believe I'm like I am William Shakespeare yep I am William Shakespeare like it's crazy how that mindset just you have to believe it otherwise it makes it uncomfortable for other people like if you if you yourself are comfortable in it people are just like oh cool i believe it but yeah that was that was a big stretch from me i would say the greatest thing about performing as i used to tell my students is that it builds empathy, because if so-and-so can do it you can do it yeah it will be a different performance.

And if you can perform in front of 1 10 100 people you can do well, in so many areas of life because as you said earlier zoe you push through the womb of fear yeah definitely when you're on the other side of it 100 yeah go ahead what you said there about how if they can do it you can do it i think one of the nicest things i took from my training was that nobody is ever going to do something similar to you because you are you and what you bring to something someone else will do completely different and I think it can be daunting sometimes and it can be hard to to deal with that competitive element of the performing arts sometimes but I think a mantra that I always told myself was like what I do someone else can't do but what they do I?

They don't do it.

It's a really nice thing to think about how unique everybody is and how people will make that different versions.

How much do you enjoy improv?

I have a bit of an up and down relationship with improv, I'll be honest.

It's not my favorite thing to do but I found that improv is one of those things that scares me hence I learn a lot from it so I when we were doing some character work for reception me and Lawrence who was sort of my love interest opposite we had this session where we did a scene but it was all improv and it It was to help Matt sort of create some of the script.

And I loved that.

I thought I really loved it because it just felt so heated and in the moment.

I think with improv, the thing I worry with sometimes is that there's an expectation to be funny sometimes.

And that's when you lose me because I'm like, okay, I need to be this.

I just need to remind myself you don't need to be anything.

You just need to be you.

And that is enough.

You know, like that is enough.

You nailed that.

When I used to do improv with my students, all the boys thought they had to be funny.

Yeah.

And I told them, I said, there are two things about improv.

Don't try too hard.

And don't give me potty humor.

Because all the boys wanted to do silly things, passing gas, burping, all that stuff.

And I would hit the bell, and I'd say, next person up.

Yeah.

and the boy would sit there i just got on stage on it you're trying too hard to make me laugh yeah yeah you're not jim carrey yeah yeah but that was when i was telling you about my teacher anna in that class that was very much an opportunity for people to feel like they had to be funny i think but she told us in one of these sessions we were doing this thing where we had to just walked across the room in any sort of way like it was she just wanted us to walk in different manners and automatically I think people's first thoughts was to be funny I know mine was anyway but she just said she was like this isn't to make people laugh like you're being honest and that's where the humor comes from sometimes so I think I think as soon as you get in that mindset of it I need to be this I need to be funny or I need to be emotional I need to make people cry like you're automatically losing the game i just i don't think you can never do it based on what you want an outcome to be like what will be you do not have control of how people will perceive your performance so yeah so are you saying then it's not about the outcome it's about what is best for this character at that moment a hundred percent yeah yeah and their motives and their desires and their emotions.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay zoe we have arrived at the big moment here what podcast listeners are probably waiting for and before we launch into the big musical to all the listeners i'm holding up some wedding present albums and as i mentioned earlier in this conversation the wedding present have been a big part of my life for many, many, many, many years.

And when I heard that there was going to be a musical, I felt two things.

One, I felt super excited.

And the other thing, And two, I felt pissed off.

And I felt pissed off because I couldn't go.

Ha!

Yeah, you're a bit far away for that, aren't you?

I am.

So, tell the listeners and me, what did I miss?

Well, the story of the Wedding Present musical surrounds a group of uni friends as they go through the trials and tribulations of being young and, you know, adolescents and dealing with the general things of love and loss and breakups and heartbreak and all that.

But it's set against the backdrop of these leads.

Very fitting for the wedding present.

Oh my goodness, the wedding present band.

And it was just a story of friendship and of connection and interesting characters.

And the story, what I think worked really well with it was that because it's set in 1980s leads, the music really mirrored that time.

And the things those characters would be listening to and the sound of Nightly's Leeds.

So, yeah, that's what you missed in a nutshell.

Damn it.

Next time.

It's okay.

Next time.

So, tell the listeners, how did you get this role?

Well, I studied a place called Leeds Conservatoire.

It's in Leeds and opposite.

And basically, we have this system in the Conservative world where if auditions came up, Lauren would, Lauren Bickerdike, she was our sort of head of events and stuff like that.

She would let us know if there was an opportunity for us to audition.

And I was in third year at the time of the audition.

I think it was actually when I found out about the auditions, it was beginning of, it was around May time, actually.

And I was just starting to think about what would be next.

It's very scary leaving uni.

I think it's that sort of first time in your life where you don't have the safety of education and you don't know what's going to...

You're an adult for the first time.

I say that I'm not an adult in any way, shape or form.

I refuse.

Anyway, I heard that there was going to be auditions for this musical and it was so exciting because I knew it was the venue it was going to be in.

And I knew it had links with Leeds Playhouse, which is a really great established theatre in Leeds.

They produce lots of amazing work.

They've just done like a rehash of Oliver.

And I saw that and I was like, I would love to work with this sort of genre of people.

I just, I really wanted to be a part of it.

So anyway, I had found out that it was open to conservatoire students to audition and I did.

And basically it was in a room.

I wish I could describe to you this audition room.

It was like, basically it was one of the rooms I used to have my lectures in.

So it was very sort of surreal.

It was like why am I leaving uni and getting a job outside of like oh it was it was a lot and um I went in I did a first round audition which was I sang a song which was in the style of the show and then I did a musical theater song as well and then they made me do some of the sides and that was when I first got introduced to the character I actually read the sides for the character I got in the end I came back did a second round audition it was a dance round as well, and then I got an email saying that they were interested in me and to let them know my availability and obviously I was buzzing but I didn't want to I didn't want to like you know tempt fate too much yeah let's go Mike I didn't want to I didn't want to tempt fate too much so until I got that confirmation email I was like yeah this would be brilliant but let's hold back and then I got the role.

That's sort of the story of that, yeah.

Did you say you had to sing a little bit for the audition?

I did.

I did.

Could we retrace those steps a little bit?

I thought you were going to say to me, can you sing a bit?

And I was like, I don't think so.

Well, that's what I was going to ask you.

Because in retracing of those steps, Let's go back to memory and time And let's pretend we're back in rehearsal Let's go back Could you give us a little snippet.

I could.

I basically sang Teenage Dirtbag, I remember I sang in my first audition.

And I know how hilarious is that.

And I also sang, I don't know if you're familiar with Jason Robert Brown.

No.

So he's just a musical theater composer who I really enjoy his sort of discography.

And he has this song called I'm Not Afraid of Anything from Songs for a New World.

And it was one of my go-to musical theater songs.

And I just loved singing it.

And I remember that I didn't expect to have to sing it in the audition.

And Matt did this lovely little thing where he was like, so do you have anything else in your rep?

And I was like, boy, do I.

So then I sang that and it was good.

It was nice to get a balance, actually.

I don't know if you've if you've heard any of the songs from sort of like a like a.

Well, I guess if you're not familiar, do you know, like the last five years or something like that?

Those shows are, the sound of those shows is so significantly different to the wedding present.

So it was really fun to do a mix of those in an audition.

What would you like to hear right now?

Because I would love for you to sing a snippet of whatever you want to sing.

Okay.

I don't care if it's Mary Poppins.

I don't care if it's the wedding present.

Whatever you feel comfortable and stepping out of your comfort zone.

Oh, that's it.

Is that a rehash to the past, that?

A little rehash to our past conversation?

Yes, it is.

I'm going to give you what I can, but do bear in mind, I'm a little bit under the weather, but that's okay.

So I'll sing.

Oh, gosh.

Can you give me some?

What's your favorite?

I'll see if I sang one.

Oh, my God.

Okay, so I could do Rotterdam.

I could do anything off Sea Monsters.

I could do Click Click.

I could do My Favorite Dress.

I could do Shatner.

Nobody's Twisting Your Arm.

I love my favorite dress.

That's a beautiful song.

I didn't sing that one, but I will do...

What did I sing?

Okay, I'll do Little Silver.

I did a little bit of Little Silver in my track, if you're familiar with that one.

Great.

So this song came...

This song came at the end of the show.

So it was introduced to me quite late.

And I loved it because it was really sort of emotionally.

I'm going to imagine that Lawrence is here with me.

So I can play again.

So Little Silver, everyone, is from the Going Going album, which is a big, sprawling wedding present beast of an album that came out in 2016.

So it's a very unique album of theirs.

But yeah this is he played this when he was in san francisco you look so shocked when i said i'm leaving but i think i shocked myself even more for what it's worth i knew right then, appearances can be deceiving but i feel like i've arrived in the happiest place on earth i can breathe again.

It was just time for me to go there's nothing else you need to know there's no point in questioning or anything there's nothing okay thank you for stepping out of your comfort zone Zoe thank you for singing that tune you get this message that they would like for you to be part of this musical.

So how much preparation did you do in terms of getting inside your character?

Is it Rachel?

Yes, it was Rachel.

Okay.

And then in terms of preparation, what did you do for that?

Well, I think what was really lovely at me is the time that this is set in was the same time my mom would have been around this age.

So I actually got a lot of information from her because I felt like my character.

She was the beautiful thing about doing a show that's new.

These characters are open to being nuanced and being anything that they want to be really like with that the collaboration of the creatives but there was so much to explore in these characters so I did a lot of contextual historical sort of work just sort of to give myself a bit of an understanding as to what the political scene would be like for these people and how that would affect them it also helped me decipher what her morals would be what the way she would be how she acted how she would present herself and a big thing that helps me with this is creating like a spotify playlist that i'll my character would listen to so i had this playlist that i would imagine rachel to be listening to and to be like listening with her friends too and it just helped me if I'm listening to it it helps me sit in it and imagine it a bit more which is really helpful for me so I did all of that and that felt like it was definitely as the process when we were actually discovering these characters it was actually within the rehearsal period as well we had this gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous person working with us Cara love Cara with my whole whole world she was fab she was really great at taking us away and thinking how would the political historical socio sort of political stand and point at this time of the world affect these people and it made me think about her differently.

So it was important for me to think about all those things, So you build this playlist to start immersing yourself inside the skin of this character.

Yeah.

So tell us what bands were on that playlist, roughly.

Shall I pull it up?

Because I have it right here.

Yes.

I have a whole Spotify playlist dedicated to Rachel and what I felt would be what would be her taste in music, if you will.

So some of the bands we had on here was The Police, The Smiths, I had a bit of Fleetwood Mac on there as well, The Clash.

Blondie, The Bangles, Pet Shop Boys I thought would be a big one because Pet Shop Boys actually has sort of links to the Northeast and Rachel was from the Northeast so I felt like I had this narrative where her and her dad would be big Pet Shop Boy fans and she would listen to him that with him.

So I really liked that idea.

So the Pet Shop Boys was on there too, but it wasn't just bands.

I also liked a bit of Madonna on there too, because I felt like she would have been, she would have, she would have been a girl in her late teens, early twenties.

Madonna would have been someone that she, you know, idolized a little bit.

That sounds like a juicy playlist.

I think so.

Let's go back to methods of acting so we talked about a little bit of stanislavski yes that talks about connecting to the emotions recalling the emotions were you cognizant zoe of the style of acting you were trying to express on that stage was it meisner was it stanislavski was it method i always just think that my natural instinct is to be, I guess you would call it Stanislavski in the sense of it's very naturalistic and it's human, I would say.

I hope.

That's what I hope for.

I love digging in the real genuine feelings and emotions.

And I did mention to you earlier that I loved Meisner for that reason, because I felt like Meisner is a great way to access genuine, real feelings.

So I would say it was a nice balance between the two if I was put in like a sort of style onto it.

Okay, so can we keep going deeper into the acting?

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, so you find the style of acting that you are employing to give this character more depth.

Did you adapt your voice?

Did you modulate it in any way, tone, pitch, volume, to add more layers to Rachel?

I think what I found myself doing almost subconsciously, I think Rachel is so, a lovely conversation I had with Cara was talking about.

Working class women, I've been surrounded by them my whole life and I find them to be the most strong, strong-willed people ever.

And I know enough of them to respect them and to respect what that historically has meant for people, especially in my area where I grew up.

I found myself leaning into things and maybe vocal styles that I would recognize from them, maybe a sort of more, let's try to think the way it described this.

Definitely in terms of my accent, I was picking up ways that people in my community would be a bit more geordie.

So when Rachel was a bit more emotional in a song, maybe there was a moment where my accent would become a bit more strong.

Not even by choice sometimes, it just might have been a subconscious thing of asserting yourself and asserting your your background and yeah I think like things like that it just comes so hand in hand with the emotion of it because she was based so heavily around strong women in my life so I think I think that would have been an example of that so now name a strong woman in your life that may be manifested within the character within your role that you were thinking of?

I definitely think the first person that comes to my brain is my gran.

My gran, and I've always said this, she's like the type of person that she'll say whatever, whether you want her to or not, like she will, in a room, she will say what needs to be said.

And I respect that from her a lot.

And I really hope to be like that myself when I'm, you know, but I think the reason, the reason I took it from her is because sometimes I think people underestimate the power of of a strong woman and she my gran is never i don't think my gran has ever made me feel like she couldn't say what needs to be said and that i think that's probably the person that i'm comes to my brain straight away thank you by the way.

As you were getting deeper inside the character of Rachel, were there any aspects to her personality that you really had a hard time connecting with?

And if you did, what did you do to try to bridge that gap?

Yeah, I'm trying to think of something.

I must say, first and foremost, I really enjoyed her as a character because, she was there was times where I think she was her situation was very much well I don't want to ruin it for anyone I'm not going to ruin the story and the plot but she got put through quite a lot as a character it was very emotional journey she had and I think it's hard to find a thing to dislike about that because I truly liked her as a character a lot I was gonna say she could be stubborn but I really don't I think under the circumstances she kind of it was in her right to be a bit stubborn, in all fairness.

Let me think of something.

I potentially think there was a.

She had a sort of, especially in comparison to some of the other characters, there was a bit more of a standoffish energy in her ability to be silly, maybe.

I think that was because of the circumstances she was under and also the context of her as a character.

And there was around her friends, she was more silly and open.

But I think a lot of the show was spent with her deep in these feelings.

And I think in order for me to combat that and to find the joy in her as a character against that contextual sort of subtext and all that thing, I think I just had to find the play in her with anyone who was in her life because, yes, she was in a circumstance that was really hard to deal with.

And I think that if you play that all the time, you can't connect to the character anymore because it's like, this girl's just sad all the time.

Like, like, you know, but that's not how a human is.

Like you can be all of those things and still be full of life and full of joy and find passion and joy in life.

And I think that is what she was.

So I think that's probably how I combated it by finding ways that she would get through those things and who she would turn to.

and the silliness she would find in the little parts that she could.

This sounds like an incredibly enriching experience led by, who is the gentleman, the mastermind behind this musical?

That's Mr.

Matt Aston.

Yes, and I had the great opportunity of interviewing Matt.

Yes.

So what was it like working for him, with him?

I had such a great time with all of the creatives on this project I think as I mentioned I'm a recent graduate I literally finished uni in June June so this was the first time I'd ever been in a professional setting and going into that especially with people who are more well in their sort of comfort zone because they'd done it before or maybe people who just had more experience than me I was obviously nervous because it was you know you want to establish yourself but you don't want to you don't you know you don't want to do the wrong thing like this is your first job, so Matt was always very cautious to work with me and my thoughts and I think it was a really nice room to work in.

I had a very good experience.

Is Matt the type of director that spends a lot of time rehearsing?

Well, it was interesting because the way things sort of happened was we spent a lot of time segregated off during the rehearsal period.

He would take, say like me, Lawrence and Richard, we were often doing things together.

And we would sit and we would work through the scenes with him and we would maybe present our initial ideas.

And then we worked together to maybe move more towards Matt's vision but he definitely was.

Keen to do a quite the way we did it was we did an initial run through of the scenes then we went back and we added detail but he definitely got us to the place that he wanted it to get to in terms of the detail and even though that might have not been straight away like by the end of it I think we all knew exactly what it was that we he was wanting from from the scenes and from the characters so how did he challenge you how did he push you i think it is important to say obviously this is matt's passion project like he loves the band and he respects the band and he has this relationship with david gedge that he truly truly like respects and i think, the way it pushed me knowing how much he cared about it I think you want to deliver you know like you want to you this is something that he has been wanting I think he said that he was you know doing planning this for like years like this was something that has been in the making since what COVID I think it was like it's been a very very long time coming so I think it pushed me his passion for it pushed me to want it to be the best it could be i'm going to share something with you and then i'm going to ask you a question afterwards okay.

So with my nine-year-old students, we put on a big play for the parents called A Journey Into Ireland.

And the main protagonist was really struggling with her Irish identity.

And she had to do a report on Ireland.

She didn't want to have anything to do with it.

She was transitioning to a teenager.

And I told her, I said, here's what you need to try to do with this character.

I want you to look at the Irish flag, and I want you to try and find peace in the middle with the white.

The very end of the play, the character writes a letter, and her arc has been achieved.

But when we practice this she couldn't find the depth the emotion now it's a nine-year-old, and we were trying all this music and all this and finally i found this song by daniel johnston called true love will find you in the end i play it for her she's doing the last scene, and she nailed it.

And she looked up at me, and she said, I get it now, Mr.

Frederick.

I got very choked up, and I said, good.

Now do that tomorrow night.

So my question for you, Zoe, at all, during this time of building this character, finding the character's voice and motivations, were there any moments that you were really struggling?

You couldn't find that voice.

You couldn't find the meaning in that scene.

Yeah.

Yeah, there was.

because I think what I said earlier kind of links to this I I sometimes found myself struggling because the the goings-on of this character and the things she goes through are things I thank god have never had to experience in my life so I think there was a moment where I mean for me I always find that I bring myself a little bit into my character whatever it is I'm doing a little bit of me comes in whether I choose it to or not it just does and I found that there was an element of Rachel that I really had to wring out because I didn't want her to just be the things that made her life hard I really wanted her to be open and joyful and someone that people could see themselves in and like a real human with lots of levels and I think me and my friend Amara who played Sally we spoke a lot about how her relationships with her friends how that would manifest and how they would show themselves and how what her love languages were and I think all those things helped me to unlock her a bit more because I didn't want it to just be where she was angry all the time or sad because she would have been more than the things that happened to her like she's she was a I really enjoyed playing her because she was a very strong woman and I liked that a lot so i wanted to aid that by not just making.

Her the the more heavy elements i think.

I understand that and that makes complete sense.

How many shows were there?

I think there was 16.

There wasn't that many.

There was like, I believe there was 16.

I might be pulling that out of the air.

So let's just say it was 16, give or take, right?

When do you feel like the cast found its rhythm, its timing, its essence?

I think you know when that's happened because you can feel the energy on the stage i can't explain to you i think so when you open you have the fear of oh how is this going to be received how are people going to react because you don't especially when it's new work it's never been done before like nobody knows how that's going to be received to other people so i think the first few performances everyone was a bit like squeaky bun time like how was this good like everyone was a bit like i just want to get this right I just want to get this right and then it got past press night because press night obviously is the is the big one in terms of people coming in and really perceiving it once press night was over I think you could just feel everyone kind of go and breathe and I think everyone started to sit in it a bit more and I could tell that through the way people were performing so the.

Choices people were making on stage like it was still keeping to what we'd rehearsed but it just felt like grounded and it felt like you know it's the best part for me was being on stage with people as characters that are friends and just feeling like I am just talking to a friend like now right now like it doesn't feel like we're acting it just feels like we're friends in a place together and that was that was when I knew it was settling but it must say it is hard because with the show only being on for you know maybe 14 16 times it goes so fast so by the time you get to that rhythm it's it's done again but yeah.

Tell us about your experience speaking with and getting to know David Gedge, if that happened.

Well, we met him on the first day, I remember, because we all had this sort of introduction session that all actors love to do.

You know, when you do the classic, like, what's your favorite kind of biscuit kind of thing, like one of those icebreakers.

And we met everybody in the sort of cast and the creative sphere and David was there and I'm I remember on the first day thinking.

This is terrifying this guy is this is his life sort of work in his you know like I know he was sort of apprehensive at first to make you know to see his music be in a musical form and I think we were all I can't speak for everyone in the cast but I know that I was a bit scared because I I remember him watching us sort of working because he came in about, it must have been two weeks later, he came back to watch us do it.

And I think it was me and Laurence doing Brassneck.

And he sat in and he watched us do that.

And it has this sort of outward look where you can't tell what that man thinks.

So I was like, does he like it?

Does he like it?

Like, I can't tell.

He did.

He liked it in the end.

I do know that now.

But obviously when you're in that room and you know you don't want to make someone else's art feel like it's not theirs anymore you want it to be you want to make it as good as possible for them of course so I think, it was almost like a he almost was like a catalyst to make it as good as possible because you were like okay you know you know David Gedge is going to be around so let's try do what we can to, Yeah, it was nice.

And it's nice that he was so interlinked with it.

And I think he came and saw the show at least.

Oh, he saw it a good few times, which was also good because it was nice support.

Your experience with all these other actors.

I imagine you probably made some really strong connections, some bonds.

Yeah, I really did.

Is that important to you?

After each performance that you do.

Each show, is that important to you?

Yeah, I thrive on close sort of relationships and friendships.

So I think one of the, you know, when I first got into this kind of thing, the thing that I couldn't deal with, which ironically now is something that I love.

I really struggled with this idea of getting close to people on a, because when you do something like this, it's so emotional and it's so high energy and you do so many sort of vulnerable things together and you get really close to the people that you're doing it with.

And then you move on and then it's sort of on to the next thing and like I think at first that idea that concept was quite sad to me because I quite like stability in that sense however I also find it a very lovely thing because now I know that I've made so many lovely friends through that experience who are scattered around the UK but I know that if I ever needed like a place stay in London like I have some lovely friends there now so I feel really lucky like that that group of creatives they were they were amazingly talented first off so that was always inspiring to me because it felt like I would watch them and go wow like this is this is a really talented group of people and that pushed me to be as good as I could be but it also just was nice because it made the experience so just enjoyable like I enjoyed being with those people every day like it would I think that experience those people made that experience more than I could have asked for really.

If you were to go back and redo some of your performances for the wedding present musical.

Yes.

What might you do differently?

It's a good question.

I think I would make more nuanced choices in regards to, well, you know, I was about to say that I would make more nuanced choices in regards to my vocal choices.

But I think in the moment, I hope I used my vocal style the way I would do acting, as in it changed depending on the feeling.

I don't think it's right to plan to do something.

I think sometimes in musicals, there's a tendency to maybe show how amazing you can belt.

And that is amazing.

And I love that.

And I think there's definitely a place for that.

But I also love musical theatre and I love performance where it's you belt because you're angry or you're belting because that's coming from somewhere.

There's a reason why you make those vocal choices.

Yeah, maybe if I could go back, I would lean into that a bit more.

But I think I was happy with the way it went.

Yeah, I was happy with what I did.

And the reviews?

Yeah, I was very grateful.

I think when you are doing this first, you know, when you're doing your first project, I had heard a lot of people say, listen, reviews are going to be reviews.

It is what it is, like, just let it happen.

But it doesn't stop it being scary.

I think art is so personal and it's such a part of you.

And I think when you give that to other people, people you don't know.

You're terrified to be like, what are these people going to think?

Even though it doesn't necessarily matter, but it does because, you know, it's going to affect you, you're human.

Yeah.

I think the one that comes to my mind was, oh, bless, like we had Frankie who was on our team.

She came up to me after one of the shows and basically one of the bigger reviewing, as I say, companies, I don't know what you'd call it, but they're called The Stage.

They do all sorts of reviews all over the UK.

And Frankie was like, so I think you should go read the review that they've written on like about the show tonight.

I was like, oh, yeah, cool.

Yeah, sure.

I'll do that when I get home.

I read it and it was just a really lovely review and it was just saying things that I guess like that's when I for the first time thought like wow I'm doing what I've dreamed of doing it felt like that was the first time that I really because it's so strange like even now I don't think I fully recognize how crazy that experience was and the crazy things that came out of it but that for some reason was the first time where I was like I got a bit emotional I was like oh my god like this is what I want to do with my life like and I'm actually able to do it and it's just yeah so that review was that meant a lot to me but the reviews in general were very.

Encouraging I think because it wasn't just in terms of me it was applauding the other cast the the musicianship the music and just it was nice because I think the more we heard these things the more encouragement we got to just keep trusting ourselves and what we were doing and it let us become a bit more tight with it I think.

With the cast, Matthew Buggs, Zach Burns, Jack Hardy, Amara Latchford, Rebecca Levy, Levy.

Yeah.

Is there anything you want to say to them?

I think everything that I want to say, I hope they already know that.

I just think that they're all amazing.

I think they were big inspirations to me, like all of them in different ways.

And I've taken lots from them all individually.

That this experience, like with it being my first professional, it was my professional debut.

You I mean that experience could have been the making or breaking as to whether I wanted this you know like it's your first experience in the world doing it and I think if I had a bad experience on this show it probably would have I mean I don't know it might not have but it I maybe would have been a bit more deterred to carry on pushing myself to do this because it would be my first experience and it maybe I would have thought you know like it's not what I hoped it would be but.

It was and those people made that made that even more special to me and i think we all knew how much i appreciated them all but they're all just a very nice group of people so i can't i can't complain and i have a lot of love and respect for them all who is the choreographer hayley dal harrison i already knew hayley because hayley choreographed my third year show in leeds so, so when I was doing the auditions and I heard Hayley was doing the movement I was like oh my god like as if surely this is a sign that I have to do this like please but yeah me and Hayley already knew each other which was it's nice because also Matt Bug who was in the cast he was also one of my lecturers from uni so I had this group of people and my friend Ellie who went to lead some serve to us she was in the ensemble dance sort of community ensemble they were called, but I had so many people who I already knew going into it and I just I think that helped me feel even more comfortable to begin that experience but yeah Hayley was the choreographer for the show.

Well, I am still bumming that I didn't get to see it.

But I'm so happy for you in the cast, the ensemble, of course, Matt.

And it just sounded like a fabulous experience.

So my hat to everyone that was involved.

I want to read you one more quote.

Comes from a book called The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck.

Have you read it?

I think I've read parts of it.

I believe, because I know that book's name for sure.

It is called A Counterintuitive Approach to Living a Good Life, written by Mark Manson.

Here we go.

Questioning ourselves, doubting our own thoughts and beliefs is one of the hardest skills to develop.

But it can be done.

Here are some questions that will help you breed a little more uncertainty in your life.

Question one, what if I'm wrong?

Question two, what would it mean if I were wrong?

And finally, question three, would being wrong create a better or worse problem than my current problem for both myself and others?

So the question I have for you, Zoe, is I think I'm going to know your answer, but I could be wrong.

Who knows?

For you to feel that you are wrong, that you are uncertain, is that a motivator for you?

Do you learn and appreciate being wrong?

Hmm.

Do I think in a way I find that when I'm in a situation where I'm either wrong or I don't know the answer like that's the time when I'm it's what I mentioned earlier I'm a little bit like okay now I have to force myself to sort of understand what I can do to improve or maybe to advance myself so I think it's almost like trying to flip the way you see those those experiences do you know I mean I guess if you if you go into it like I can never be wrong or I don't want to hear that I'm wrong I don't think that's you'll improve from that I know I wouldn't so I guess I take those experiences and try to flip it more into a positive thing of right well now I can grow from this so I think that's and do you do you apply that to also your friendships and your relationships as well I would say so yeah.

Well you gave me the answer i thought you were going to give me imagine if i gave you the completely other opposite answer and you were like oh not what i well i the reason why i asked is because i'm sure you know people that just cannot be wrong in their work right that they have a hard time stepping out of their comfort zone hearing constructive feedback whatever it is, and you strike me as a person where you take being uncertain about things as kind of a challenge.

Like how are you going to investigate it how are you going to explore it so you can learn from it yeah i'm really glad you said that's very nice of you to say because i hope that is how i um i i'd like to think that is how i am because i i think that is one of the nice things about this sort of career as well is that you're going to meet so many people with opinions that aren't your own and art is so subjective and I think it's taking the things that you that are helpful because not all things are going to be helpful I think sometimes there's a line between constructive criticism versus just not being a bit unnecessarily unkind and I think it's knowing for yourself when to listen to those things and when to admit okay I can learn from this or I can improve from this and then also being able to support yourself to know I did what I could I am I'm working hard like having those two things in mind is important to me I think.

Beautiful answer thank you what's coming down the line for you so i know it's not as much of a big thing in america i'm pretty sure i'm i'm doing a panto this christmas for the first christmas that i'm able to do something like this which is crazy so a panto is obviously just a bunch of silliness and a lot of chaos and it's actually going to be great because i think it's very different to what I've just done for reception because reception was a lot more emotionally investing and it was it's just a different kettle of fish so I'm very excited to do that and then the new year is looking, very exciting I think I'm gonna say I think I'm trying to change my my mindset about it all being in this industry the another joy is that you sometimes are in a bit of an unpredictable situation and I think that's what the new year might look like but I'm gonna take that as a It's unpredictable but that's kind of exciting Like I've never had that before Where I've just got nothing planned So fingers crossed We'll see what happens Okay, alrighty.

Would you like to recommend any albums, TV shows or podcasts or anything like that?

A charity organization?

Well, I would love to recommend.

So a sort of, they're not a charity.

They're more, they're like a company, I guess, that I would love to draw recognition to is a company called Theatre North.

They're on Instagram or anything like that.

You can find them on.

i've always said however far my career goes like something i will consistently advocate for is people in the north of england being able to have access to the arts and being a part of the arts and not feeling like they have to be down south to do that because it's growing it definitely is growing but i think there's still it's inaccessible for some people because of finance and it's it's unfortunately very expensive so i think any organizers sorry i will explain what they do first they just draw attention to to creatives in the north who are musical theater who can sing who can all that kind of thing and they have been putting on cabaret performances all around the northeast not not just the northeast northeast in yorkshire in manchester and it's just to draw attention to the talent in the north and i think it's really important to do that because the north is full of amazing talent and amazing creative scenes and it deserves to be showcased so that's what i would recommend to the world sounds fantastic we are going to wrap this up wait with a little bit of fun fun let's go and i'm gonna throw you some lightning bolt questions god okay and you just have to answer right top of your head okay got it not stressing out all about that let's go.

Like your courage and gumption you'll be fine thank you very much hey now remember don't think just do just answer that's dancer yeah okay what is your favorite month of the year july, zoe what is your favorite color orange what is your favorite curse word at this moment bollocks is that curse word kind of not but i'm gonna say it as bollocks, what'd you say can i give you another one just in case that one doesn't count, you give me three or four i don't care okay tits let's go, i'm sure there's a story behind that but very interesting a store that you like to visit often i love bershka bershka is a really fun clothing brand i enjoy that, a school subject you would like to learn more about english language history too Zoe, how often do you floss your teeth?

I try to do it on the reg, hopefully every day, unless I forget my floss when I'm away in the world.

Tell us the name of a dish you like to cook.

Ramen.

Bring that back from the beginning.

Who is your favorite Disney character?

First person that's come into my brain would be Merida.

I just think she's great.

Love her.

From Brave.

What is your favorite board game?

I like Cluedo.

What never fails to make you laugh?

My brother.

Finish this phrase, please.

The way to my heart is?

Physical touch.

I like to be close and to lie on people a lot, I think.

So people who are happy to do that.

If you were to write a book, what would it be about?

The best places I would recommend to sunbathe.

All about that.

I like that.

Are you ready for speed?

Yeah, let's go.

Okay.

Work or play?

Play.

Love or friendship?

Love.

Friendship.

Cats or dogs?

Dogs.

I already regret my first two answers.

Morning or evening?

Morning.

Salty or sweet?

Sweet.

Physical strength or mental strength?

Mental strength.

Would you rather have a night in or a night out?

Night out.

Expensive presents or homemade presents?

Megan.

A guilty pleasure of yours?

Really cheesy sort of films.

Name a celebrity you'd love to meet one day.

Olivia Colman.

Do public restrooms make you self-conscious?

Do public restrooms?

No.

Motivates you?

My mom.

What is the kindest thing someone has done for you that was totally unexpected?

I mean, I'm always going to say, like, I'm always going to go back to my mom.

She's given everything to me.

I can't even think of the specific thing.

She's just, the way she's dedicated such a huge part of her life to me, that to me is the kindest thing that anyone's ever done.

One of your favorite wedding present songs.

My favorite dress.

What is your deepest fear?

My deepest fear.

Maybe it's ending up in a routine where I'm not content in a life where I'm just not happy.

Who is Zoe Allen today?

Who am I?

She is someone who is really content with who she's becoming.

Isn't that nice?

I think that's who I am now.

I'm proud of myself.

I think off the back of graduation, that's what I would say.

Thank you so much for braving the podcast wilderness.

Ah, that's fine.

I had a great time.

I want to remind everyone that they can follow you on Instagram, yeah?

Yes, yes, you can.

Anywhere else?

Not really.

I'm mostly an Instagram sort of girl.

We're going to end it with a quote, and this time we're not even going to talk about it.

This is a book I recommend to everyone.

It's called Braving the Wilderness by Brene Brown.

She talks a great deal about courage and being vulnerable and how all these things in life stifle us.

We let them intrude our lives and we become the victims.

And this book is a great lens into how to find strength even when you're weak.

Us armor up early as a way to protect ourselves as children.

Once we grow into adults, we start to realize that the armor is preventing us from growing into our gifts and ourselves.

Just like we can strengthen our courage muscle for a stronger back by examining our need to be perfect and please others at the expense of our own life, we can exercise the vulnerability muscle that allows us to soften and stay open rather than attack and defend.

My name is W, host of the High Art on the Edge page, host of this podcast feature known as Surprise Cast.

And I want to remind everyone this, great acting and performance is all around you.

All you have to do is keep your eyes open.