[SPEAKER_00]: You're listening to Power Athlete Radio, a podcast dedicated to empowering your performance every damn day.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's Thomas Seeger.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's the PhD at ASU that's doing all the coal plunge research.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's a guy that's the Marosa forges.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's his company.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I had him on the podcast and [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, I have, I don't have one of those.

[SPEAKER_03]: I should buy one, but I had reservations about spending 10 grand for a unit that sits outside in Texas and yeah, Texas isn't notoriously bad for fucking destroying everything like I put it on outside, but I had to build like a cover on it, which involved pouring concrete platform and then I did the weld ups.

[SPEAKER_03]: I had to go buy a generator welder and then I'd learn to stick weld.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so I like it was probably about a year plus in the making because of course I can't do anything fast.

[SPEAKER_03]: But the only way I was gonna put that son up is if I had a cover and so I was like, man, I don't know about spending 10 grand on a bitch and coal tub.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like let me get like a plastic one.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I got the ice barrel one that I've been using it and he's like over there talking.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: His unit makes its own ice.

[SPEAKER_03]: It has like, some salt in it and it's grounded.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh crap.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it was funny I was looking at him last night and I'm like maybe as like a discount I just like I have a hard time spending as much as I would.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean that's double what I'd spend on a piece of shit project car and just to leave it sitting outside of campus.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I kind of break everything into like project cars which are used to be two to four thousand dollars for a cool project car.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now they're like four to six but like I'm like dude you're but your cars and trucks are so cool like I'm I so want to buy one from you [SPEAKER_01]: She's like your fall guy truck, and I definitely want to, I want to add Eckert, you know, like, red Dawn early truck, and it's so I'm pissing the radiator.

[SPEAKER_01]: Dude, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if [SPEAKER_03]: If you tell us, I damn it, this is like my addiction, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: I know, I get it.

[SPEAKER_03]: If you task me with it, I'm pretty sure we could find one to make a pretty cool one.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that was, like, 50 grand or is it, like, actually, probably, probably, when you're, if I have to pay John, well, born, right.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what they're in.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I mean, it just happens you have a lot of cool fucking guys and I think what would be bitch in is to go Because you guys have like the modeling in the cat.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I almost feel like I can show up and have Johnny draw everything for us Which would be so cool.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, dude.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just could you imagine if you and Johnny just got to hang out for a couple weeks and just work on stuff like that directly how could that be [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no he'd be dude.

[SPEAKER_03]: I some my buddy Will is a like built trophy trucks in Southern California and now you got hired to go work at a shop up in St.

George Utah that's kind of built in like riddler like hot rods [SPEAKER_03]: And so he actually got a scanner to like scan vehicles and now he can like do all this modeling and CAD different things like the stuff he does he sends me it just like blows my mind I mean the fact that like you know I'm like an old school kind of what I call CAD which is cardboard like I just do like cardboard stuff.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's what it's like I still am yeah they don't do that anymore all they do now is he's guys basically model they do everything they build it and then they take the file they [SPEAKER_03]: and they basically laser cut everything it shows up on a pallet and you just glue it together.

[SPEAKER_01]: No way.

[SPEAKER_01]: How much is something like when there's scanners cost?

[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, I think they're probably like, I think they're like maybe, I don't know do like maybe 10, 15 grand.

[SPEAKER_03]: So not bad.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, I mean, like, not terrible.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I, but I, I don't know the cost, but I do know that this union is one thing, but like, so for like my, my blue truck, the crew cab, I took on that unreal adventure.

[SPEAKER_03]: And the truck I designed wasn't the truck that I needed for the adventure.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like we were in Oregon, they had dunes.

[SPEAKER_03]: There was these like, I can Jeep trails and I'm in a full size.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so I came home and I was like, man, I gotta make some changes.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I got to cut the back off and do this and so I basically sent it my buddies like do get me a scan I'll just design it in this Obviously send it out and it'll show up and then all you have to do is just basically assemble it with legos with a weld and no way And that's how they're doing things for these days like like me sitting there bending one tube at a time and trying to Michael Angela this shit like that doesn't exist anymore These guys are so far off they they models suspensions [SPEAKER_03]: they can like basically do everything.

[SPEAKER_03]: But really, that's for like legit like offer a trophy truck, but like for like, you know, for for a red on K10 stepside truck like just bitch in Alcans or Devers like for like, you know, leaf springs front and rear crossover steering axles and like a bad SLS like that thing would be insane.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, we're given for those weights army blazers.

[SPEAKER_03]: Ooh, you know that, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think I saw that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm going to tag you in a video that we're going to put out, we did, I did a 1990, we found on all original 1990, did a 606L 90 and it.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it's got like a modern drive frame, one ton of axles.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then the guy that won the 74 full convertible, we gave way a couple of years ago, he donated it back.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we're giving away but two blazers.

[SPEAKER_01]: Dude, that is so cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so.

[SPEAKER_01]: to try to win that sucker hard-core.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think it should.

[SPEAKER_03]: And the best part about it is I hope it goes to a friend of mine.

[SPEAKER_03]: So if there's any problems or they ever want to do any upgrades, they know where to bring it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then we could just go drive around with a 30, 30, and a whole revolver.

[SPEAKER_01]: They protect the homeland.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I mean, the chances of that going down.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, man.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, what do you think?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's just changing the topic slightly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Have you listened or read the newest Jack Hardbook, The Cry Havoc?

[SPEAKER_01]: No, is the eighth part of his series, the Terminal List series.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm current on all of them.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I think I read the first two books and then started listening to the audio books.

[SPEAKER_03]: He has one I do my cardio.

[SPEAKER_03]: I need some to listen to.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yep, exactly.

[SPEAKER_03]: I just listened to those.

[SPEAKER_03]: And the funny part was, is I do 30 minutes.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I found myself doing like 45, 50, 60 minutes because I just wanted to listen to the book.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's exactly right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I drove back from Rochester this two days ago and it was like a 12 14 hour drive, and I was just just driving.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, you get to your driveway.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, you want to go home and see your kids and stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, but I'm like in the last chapter.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like hiding in your own driveway.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, but the newest book, cry havoc.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's the.

[SPEAKER_01]: basically the predecessor to the James Reese.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was his dad, Tom Reese.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a Mac, yeah, like a Mac song, a Mac Visog guy in Vietnam.

[SPEAKER_01]: And dude, growing up watching the movies that you and I did in Jack is basically our same age as well, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: So the three of us would just nerd out over all this stuff because it's like everything is first blood, [SPEAKER_01]: you know, read on missing and actual and uncommabella 100%.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so like basically the whole whole book is an homage to all of those eras with with some of the same phrasing and terminology.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's it's such like a cathartic, like you listen to it and it's like massaging my little nine year old brain.

[SPEAKER_03]: Dude, it's amazing.

[SPEAKER_03]: I own Red Dawn.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, I own Red Dawn, but uncommon valor to this day is still, like my brother needs more moves.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sailor is one of the best characters of all time.

[SPEAKER_03]: We interrupt this episode with a shameless self-promotion.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Now back to the show.

[SPEAKER_03]: Dude, one of my greatest moments of glory was going into a bar on Monday night in Philadelphia.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think I've told you the story and sing and put the plow on the stars and looking over and hearing the voice and then realizing that it's text cops sitting next to me.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's amazing.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a sailor.

[SPEAKER_03]: to buy him dinner and drinks and like like chew his ear off.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if he was nearly as excited about it as I was.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean for the fact that that guy boxed Muhammad Ali, you know like he he was a legit boxer and he wanted to talk about football and boxing.

[SPEAKER_03]: And all I wanted to do was like how cool was Gene had but what about yeah yeah you had a grenade around your neck.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah I mean the fact that you beat the shit out of Swazzy and he was like get up [SPEAKER_03]: Do you have a soldier boy and then, you know, and then they find a sweet roundhouse kick, too.

[SPEAKER_03]: You're need.

[SPEAKER_01]: God, they're grenade.

[SPEAKER_01]: Slaffin around.

[SPEAKER_03]: They watch that one.

[SPEAKER_03]: Movies like that anymore.

[SPEAKER_03]: And, but, uh, yeah, it's one built this country.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, uh, so my, [SPEAKER_03]: My dad's cousin, a little bill booners with a call to make call them a little bill.

[SPEAKER_03]: He was a surfer in Southern California, you got drafted to Vietnam, like straight big Wednesday stuff for it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: So he goes over there and he goes, dude, they used to, he was one of the, uh, the fragment.

[SPEAKER_03]: So like he was like, or sorry, he was a UDT guy.

[SPEAKER_03]: So he was not trying to like when the fragment of the UDT were kind of too separate.

[SPEAKER_03]: He was there at like kind of the meshing of those two.

[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_03]: They used to basically wear black wet suits and board shorts, and they would paddle out on surfboards and set ordinance on North Vietnamese boats in this different deal, and then they would paddle in and then he would basically night surf.

[SPEAKER_03]: Which, you know, anybody that we're seeing the apocalypse now, you know, Charlie, don't serve, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: So those stories he used to tell us when we were kids, I mean, I remember we go to family barbecues.

[SPEAKER_03]: He was a terrible alcoholic.

[SPEAKER_03]: He said that that was the only thing they did over there was drink.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then he came in heroin.

[SPEAKER_03]: He stood up the LA bomb squad.

[SPEAKER_03]: So he was like, you know, in back in a cop and he was one of the guys.

[SPEAKER_03]: It stood up the LA bomb squad.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, come back from Vietnam, and you basically plant an ordinance as a UDT guy.

[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, came back for that.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I remember it had family deals.

[SPEAKER_03]: He used to drink something called a Titi Ball, which was a glass of vodka with a splash of milk.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it kind of looked like a milky drink.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we didn't know what he was drinking.

[SPEAKER_03]: And he drank that on ice and pounded those.

[SPEAKER_03]: He ended up dying, but he was a terrible alcoholic.

[SPEAKER_03]: But he would tell us these insane stories.

[SPEAKER_03]: Where, at the time, [SPEAKER_03]: you know, we were watching these movies and he would tell us this stuff and he's like, yeah, you know, and that was the wildest one.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, yeah, we had black wetsuits and we would just paddle out.

[SPEAKER_03]: We plant we had and then we go in and we catch catch waves.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, did you ever go out and get a couple of extra?

[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, a couple of times, but we have a little bit of blood.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, these guys were, we're insane.

[SPEAKER_03]: So like, that's insanity.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like, this was a legit [SPEAKER_03]: Um, he sends past away, but man, I would love to have him on the podcast.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, man.

[SPEAKER_01]: How, how awesome.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's just, that's stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: I, I forgot how interesting the Vietnam era was, because that's what we grew up as, like, that's what Army dudes were.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what special operations and guys, you know, how great you are.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that was in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, David Morrell wrote first blood and that like when you I just I just reread first blood on this trip as well, which is by far you got to read that one.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's so good.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, you could tell Jack Carvets where he got a lot of his influence from, but I just refell and love with that generation.

[SPEAKER_01]: of, you know, my dad's generation, our dad's generation, like that whole world, and, you know, the Vietnam era guys, I mean, that was kind of the stand-up of a lot of the special operations forces and just some wild fighting.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, I think the McVee saw guys, they said there was a 50% 50% of them were killed.

[SPEAKER_01]: That any guys that had been McVee, and, and, [SPEAKER_01]: almost a hundred percent had purple hearts.

[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you're like, you're talking about, I mean, there's guys were going to an allows and Cambodia, like totally off the reservation, like, [SPEAKER_01]: No, I mean, being tried as basically as spies if they were caught, like, country was denying they were there, like, holy crap.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's some hairy stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they were doing it, like, you know, and tiger stripe, you know, and jeans and Chuck Taylor's.

[SPEAKER_01]: And like, you know, guns that they, they, you know, customize, and they were just going in there and just livin' them, like, holy crap.

[SPEAKER_01]: Those dudes were different level.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, got to re-less in a re-read and first blood [SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, no, I read that book more than once and obviously saw the movie and then went back and it wasn't until I was in college, I think I bought it a $2 second hand book store.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: I went by and I was like, oh shit, that's a book.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I don't believe it was called First Blood original.

[SPEAKER_01]: It actually was, it was written in 1971 and so it was written and they used to actually teach it in high schools, it was a book they would read in high schools and colleges and then the, you know, the work, the Vietnam War was [SPEAKER_01]: was not as popular, and then I think it was in 82.

[SPEAKER_01]: They made the movie of it with Stallone, and they kind of passed it around Hollywood for years, and no one wanted to get a piece of it, and all the major actors, and not so much, not so much, and then they basically a different director came in there and made a Mormon action movie, and backed off some of John Rambo's, like, killing everyone, aspects, and then that actually created the genre of the action figure.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, like the action figure, like there was no action movies prior to like the action figure character of cinema was developed.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was, they're, they're crediting John Rambo and first blood two as the first one.

[SPEAKER_01]: Our first blood is the first one.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, shit.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because prior to that, no one was like an action dude.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like Ed Charles Bronson, he had like, when he's with, but no one was like a mussely action dude.

[SPEAKER_01]: I told him to slow him.

[SPEAKER_01]: I told him to slow him.

[SPEAKER_01]: Stallone literally created the genre.

[SPEAKER_03]: One of my favorite parts of that was remember when he's running up the gully and he finds that piece of of like canvas and he puts the canvas on this.

[SPEAKER_03]: And which was awesome.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm pretty sure we've like everybody's done that themselves.

[SPEAKER_03]: But then after he kills you know like throws the rock knocks it up he takes the guy's jacket he still doesn't wear the jacket.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like we were always like he has the jacket now.

[SPEAKER_03]: Why is he still wearing the canvas and that was awesome Yeah, and his arms were out and he was jacked and then of course when he like yeah, the cool scar So we were like god, you know, he's got to be cold.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's wearing the jacket.

[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, he ended up not wearing that jacket, but I mean there was [SPEAKER_03]: interesting time in this country because of that social divide, you know, I mean, they, you know, you have, you know, like the, what they call like the eroding at trust, you know, I'm pretty fastening.

[SPEAKER_03]: You think about like Richard Nixon and Watergate, which now we read how many many years later that Richard Nixon was set up.

[SPEAKER_03]: And was framed and basically put into a position because they were nervous about Nixon's power He was by far the most popular president in US history got more votes.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it was insane It was like 225 to 14 he wins a college.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it like the most decisive victory in US history for a president my dad Who since obviously passed away, but I remember my dad worked [SPEAKER_03]: uh...

on nixon's campaign uh...

way so my dad was in politics california politics and he got an opportunity to go to like a dinner like kind of a meeting with with nixon and to this day he still or you know for me since past week he said at that point uh...

he had known ronna ragan and uh...

you know different political people but he's like richard nixon was by far at that point the smartest person he'd ever set a room with really and so when i asked my dad about water gate he goes uh...

uh...

[SPEAKER_03]: Watergate was an interesting time, obviously, but he goes Nixon was framed, and this is also interesting.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I went to Berkeley, obviously, which we watched.

[SPEAKER_01]: Gosh, that whole era is just so shrouded and well, you know, it makes you, you rethink everything that happened from like 52 to yesterday.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, so I lived in the dorms.

[SPEAKER_03]: And one of the girls that lived in the dorms with us was Bob Woodward's daughter.

[SPEAKER_03]: So Woodward and Birdstein, all the president's men.

[SPEAKER_03]: So Bob Woodward came to spoke about that.

[SPEAKER_03]: And what was fascinating about Bob Woodward, he was a naval intelligence officer at 27, he gets out.

[SPEAKER_03]: and goes to work for, you know, the New York Times or sorry, the Washington Post.

[SPEAKER_03]: So he goes to work for the Washington Post.

[SPEAKER_03]: He gets given this story.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, because that was like his first his breakout story, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: He was 27 years old.

[SPEAKER_03]: And his constant ample informant was like the number two guy in the FBI.

[SPEAKER_03]: So the, so I mean, the guys enabled intelligence officer, I mean, like dude, it was a complete smear job on them.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, and like when he got up and was like speaking about like you're like, this sounds like you're 27 years old, your enables intelligence officer, you've no experience as a reporter and you get handed the biggest story in US history to take down the most popular president and your confidential informants and number two guy at the FBI.

[SPEAKER_03]: you are about a government plan.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like this is a complete disinformation campaign that you are leading and then he goes and writes to all the presidents men and they do this whole thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I'm like, how come nobody ever called this guy for basically being deep state?

[SPEAKER_03]: And this was a smear job on Nixon?

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think people just were so trusting back then and believe everything on the news or they just didn't even think the deep state or whatever might want to call it was a real thing?

[SPEAKER_01]: Or they just uneducated, they just didn't care.

[SPEAKER_01]: They were too high or like, what's the deal?

[SPEAKER_03]: No, I think what happened was there was up until, you know, you think about like there was and my dad and I talked about this he said there was like an age of innocence, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: So you have like [SPEAKER_03]: Um, you know, the greatest generation, the quiet generation and then all of a sudden you get into like the boomers and there was this like kind of like whole thing and then all of a sudden like the Vietnam war starts.

[SPEAKER_03]: And and all of a sudden Nixon and there's this like loss of innocence and there became this like don't trust anybody over 30 and it just aimed this kind of mistrusting at the government because now some people are getting lied to.

[SPEAKER_03]: you know, why are we in Vietnam, why are we sending our boys over to fight this little proxy war in the South East Asia, you know, and the idea is we have to stop communism, and I think people just became disenfranchised, just mistrusting of the government, that issue is that the only way that you were going to get information.

[SPEAKER_03]: was obviously through, let's say, news source, which we know is, yeah, main channel news, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, or you had to read the paper.

[SPEAKER_03]: So my dad still, still, to the day he died, got up every Sunday morning and read the LA Times cover to cover.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then we would sit there at night and he would tell us all the bullshit that was in there.

[SPEAKER_03]: And as a guy who was a criminal defense attorney for 55 years in L.A., I mean, he talks about, you know, when he was a probation officer, he knew Mukhi Williams, who's the guy who started the grips and like, you know, he was there at the middle.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I remember him telling the story about the day that a crack cocaine hit the street to L.A., he said that they were, you know, like, California was at a point where there were so few people in jail, they were thinking of shutting down jails.

[SPEAKER_03]: and basically going to like out kind of like different, like a different model.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'll have some crack cocaine hits and he goes, you know, things were pretty mellow and then I'll have some overnight.

[SPEAKER_03]: There was just like a black cloud that fell over and he goes and he went in and there was 100 murders and he goes, it was as if that moment and then Richard Nixon, the war on drugs and these like all of these didn't have skating things.

[SPEAKER_03]: And he's like dude, and he goes it turned into a war zone and next scene now the prisons are exploding.

[SPEAKER_03]: And his joke was, I've never seen any black dude from LA go to Columbia and get cocaine, so I wonder where it came from.

[SPEAKER_03]: which now we know cocaine cowboys, the CIA.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I mean, I think it comes down to the information was extremely curated for, you know, you think about Operation Paper Clip.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we basically brought Nazi scientists.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, you look at Operation Mockingbird where they were going in and basically like controlling the media sources.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think the media that we were seeing on TV, the stuff in the newspapers was all curated in such a way.

[SPEAKER_03]: and then all of a sudden you go to places like, you know, Berkeley or different places that, you know, maybe been these little epic centers of information, and there was, you know, equal people on other sides that were probably post and bullshit, but now we're in a situation where everything is available.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you think about like, you know, somebody does a four or question goes in and it goes up.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the fact that the way we were watching live streams of the Ukrainians fighting the Russians and these guys were like, basically Instagram, why being it, and you're seeing my rockets hit.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, think about the level of access.

[SPEAKER_03]: We've had, we've never had this level of access.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you also have an extreme level of ability to be subverted as well, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, now that you have all this, [SPEAKER_01]: You know, not only Photoshop, but you have all these other AI ways of changing videos and do not like, is it an age of more information or, of course, more information, but [SPEAKER_01]: What is the age of accuracy of information?

[SPEAKER_01]: Are we there, and can you even tell anymore, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, no, so I think, you know, I learned a few things from Greg Glassman from CrossFit, you know, he used a line one time that I have co-opted and I use all the time that people fall or fail at the margins of their experience.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we just had the power out of the collective, which I appreciate your guys continue to sponsorship on Moist Glass.

[SPEAKER_03]: You guys there.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we ended up having John McFeak come out and he taught a shooting course for us, which was awesome.

[SPEAKER_03]: These are fucking random dude.

[SPEAKER_03]: Probably one of the best human beings I've ever met.

[SPEAKER_03]: And the fact that he got hit job taken on him by a bunch of like bro.

[SPEAKER_03]: ex-military podcasters they wanted to try to get clicked so they fabricated a bunch of bullshit on him as a travesty so we go out and shoot and you know like I'm like you dude I hunt almost every single night in my backyard so I'm behind the scope or rifle either shooting something or at least scanning.

[SPEAKER_03]: Sure, I carry concealed, so I drive fire almost, you know, four or five days a week.

[SPEAKER_03]: I hit the range every like once a month I stop, I shoot all my duty loads and then I buy new duty loads, so I'm pretty proficient, you know, I wrote it down.

[SPEAKER_03]: I would say you're in the 1% of people, yes, as well, you're in it.

[SPEAKER_03]: I have a what I call operational readiness, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, obviously, you know, I carry a go bag, I [SPEAKER_03]: I got a kit, like the whole thing, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: And I carry on, so you have to be proficient.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we went out to go shoot, and it was pretty interesting, seeing guys shoot and realizing that like certain people, they just don't shoot as much.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I remember, there were some people were blaming it on the gun, they were, you know, technique, or, you know, this and this, and my job is it's a bad carpenter that blames his tools.

[SPEAKER_03]: So like, don't be upset, you're getting your, you're not getting the results you want because you have it invested the time.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, this happens with welding, this happens with fighting, with jits, with all these other things.

[SPEAKER_03]: Lay lifting, with hunting, with hunting.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, so we always call this like, Oh, it's the Indian, not the era.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's the list behind the wheel.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that, like, level of operational readiness, and I think what we're seeing today, and I wrote a paper about this years ago when I was in college, that I felt that the division and this was when I was doing my master's work.

[SPEAKER_03]: I always felt that the division of education and intelligence had to do with access to information.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think what it came back to was they did basic intelligence testing and I think the Army did it and they found that the black people that were going into the Army had like lower intelligence scores, I think, than my wife, a few points.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so they were asking us for observations and I felt that it was access to information [SPEAKER_03]: you know if they had been given the same access to information this wouldn't be an issue now we have incredible access to information where the entirety of the world [SPEAKER_03]: is basically in this fucking thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's all of my fingertips.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I feel like people have never been done her.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I think early on, I'm very curious that they curated information out of fear that people would become too educated and the rules would be up.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then they realized if you just give them all the information, most people will not be able to disseminate because it's too overwhelming.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: So then what they'll do is they'll just look to trusted people and then we can just find who those key figures are and then use them as controlled opposition.

[SPEAKER_01]: one thousand percent.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: That I've seen the exact same thing is so much information that you could let everyone drink from a fire hose to the point where they can't take anymore and they're going to go, I'm going to listen to the two or three people or ten people or whatever that is most aligned with, maybe they're the prettiest, maybe they're the coolest, maybe they're the most popular and then all you have to do is have inception strategies [SPEAKER_01]: your direct channel to that demographic?

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, like, for example, I think this, I wrote an article on my talk to me, Johnny, which is, was about the Charlie Kirkus has, which I always love the reference to, to a first blood with that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, you don't.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, if you notice that the tagline is, it's a long road, which is the theme song.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a long road ahead.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, I didn't catch that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Good job.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was actually Rob Wolff when I had to talk to me, Johnny, and I said, it's a long road.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, this would happen to do with the song in first blood, would it?

[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, that's exactly what it is.

[SPEAKER_03]: Just like for the, I wrote that blog years ago, it's called the 42 Things I Learned.

[SPEAKER_03]: Up until this point, the reason I used 42 was the magic number of existence in the hitchhikers sky to the galaxy is 42.

[SPEAKER_03]: love that.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so Rod was the only one we were I had him on the podcast and he's like, did anybody ever pick up that that 42 thing?

[SPEAKER_03]: It was 42 because he had a 42.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, yeah, hitchhikers get into the galaxy.

[SPEAKER_03]: We read that book as kids.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's like that's a magical number.

[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, right, to go back to Great Lastman, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: People said, I'm not real quick.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you know why they chose John Rambo as the name for the character.

[SPEAKER_01]: So Rambo is a Dave and Morrell.

[SPEAKER_01]: He got like a [SPEAKER_01]: piece of bread or something the day before the grocery store and it was R-A-M-B-E-A-U-X.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so he was saying like Rambo, he was pronouncing in a certain way and his wife came home and said, oh, Rambo, and he was like, oh, that's a cool sounding name.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then John, as in Johnny, goes off to war, that was kind of that side of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then Sam Troutman was Uncle Sam.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because in the book, Sam Troutman didn't actually [SPEAKER_01]: train John Rambo.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was above the whole group that train John Rambo.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he was like one click you know away from that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it was all this.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was very, very cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then was it as it ties menteesman?

[SPEAKER_01]: What was the antagonist?

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, sure.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, in the movie, it was a, I thought it was a Tisdale.

[SPEAKER_01]: Tisdale.

[SPEAKER_01]: Tisdale or Tisdale?

[SPEAKER_01]: Something like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, in the book, he was actually a [SPEAKER_01]: the only higher award was a congressional honor that John Rambo got.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there was this big.

[SPEAKER_01]: So when you read the book, you see like this big age scenario and it was like, [SPEAKER_01]: The clean cut guy with a buzz cut that's a sheriff against the long-haired guy that has the PTSD.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, it's just I thought that was a really cool, interesting way that they chose the names themselves.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: So glassmen talked about fields and margins of experience, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: So like, if you want to decrease your chance of failure, you have to push out your margin as far as you can go.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, I think that the same thing applies with a lot of this, like the other piece that Greg said, is he goes, if you approach everything is bullshit and then work backwards, usually are in a better place than believing everything and then getting told that it's bullshit.

[SPEAKER_03]: My wife gets missed immediately.

[SPEAKER_03]: She's like, what do you think everything's bullshit?

[SPEAKER_03]: I put a natural filter of everything is everything is untrue until it proves itself to be true.

[SPEAKER_03]: And like a class example, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, you have a guy like Trump comes in, [SPEAKER_03]: You know campaigns on this anti-establishment platform right like I'm not from DC I'm a businessman and here we're gonna during the swamp in the deep state and then all of a sudden Like the Epstein stuff comes out and they were like that just fucking went away And I'm like dude you campaigned for years on this like how do you like just make it go away and his base is like Okay, I guess it just goes away for me.

[SPEAKER_03]: I look at that and be like [SPEAKER_03]: Alright, how do you campaign on this is because the new cycle is so fast that people can't keep up.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I think that there has to be some form of accountability for these different things and the problem is that most people just don't have the bandwidth for.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, if you approach everything with a bit of skepticism and you allow that skepticism to play you into a positive place, it works better than having a bunch of [SPEAKER_03]: high hopes and then just getting, you know, cut out and I like we were really in a referencing Turanplet, you know, his son, them, you know, everything about draining the swamp and we're going to release the Epstein files and all this comes out and then all of a sudden, he's like, nah, we looked at him and there were nothing.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, they literally built their entire campaign on that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And what's wild is, like, [SPEAKER_03]: That kind of eroded a lot of it for me, where I was like, okay, you know, this thing is a lot more powerful.

[SPEAKER_03]: Now, whether or not Trump got, you know, the assassination who knows, maybe the shot him in the ear, maybe turns his head, who knows how that whole thing goes down.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because you were talking about the Charlie Kirk thing before you went out.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, the, yeah, so the Charlie Kirk thing to me was really ugly for the fact that I left the internet after that for a while.

[SPEAKER_03]: Regardless of how you feel about what he said, the fact that that guy went to college campuses and engaged people in discourse.

[SPEAKER_03]: Now, was he extremely polished and well on head X on arguments and was he the best, one of the best in the world at 100%.

[SPEAKER_03]: Were these kids completely unprepared for what he was going to do 100%.

[SPEAKER_03]: But he still went out and argued and battled and taught.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, this is what he did.

[SPEAKER_03]: And he built a microphone of himself.

[SPEAKER_03]: and listen to them and was never dismissive of them.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, hey, these are my ideas.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to have discord, which is what you hope for in this country.

[SPEAKER_03]: He was a father, he had children, and he went out and was trying to engage the youth to be able to figure out, like, you know, have these discussions.

[SPEAKER_03]: The fact that he gets killed.

[SPEAKER_03]: is awful.

[SPEAKER_03]: And the fact that people were celebrating it and were this ugly and gross was like beyond me that people were like, okay, so now all of a sudden because the words that this individual work was discussing were different than the ones that you want, that therefore that gives you the ability to celebrate the death of a father and American, [SPEAKER_03]: You know, a husband, I mean, a guy in his 30s who was running a business, I mean, engaging it's not like he was sitting behind a computer doing a fairer stuff.

[SPEAKER_03]: The dude was literally sitting front and center on a stool, the baby, these kids, and did so.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I have never been so disgusted by the internet and people to the point where I was like...

[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, dude, if this thing, if the internet turned off, we'd be better for it because this is really ugly.

[SPEAKER_01]: A hundred percent John, I was actually driving to a meal-dear camp when I got the text and I actually stopped to take a leak in a gas station and it was on the news and I was like, what the heck?

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, friends sent up the video.

[SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, I watched it and I remember I got to camp and I started seeing what people were saying and I got so frustrated and angry that people would be so insensitive or so low class is a pretty, pretty, very, very, you know, just all the above and I left, I didn't go on the internet or social media for probably two weeks.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just left and and you know what it was fantastic.

[SPEAKER_01]: I strangely enough I had just gotten the analog the book of Richard Ryan wrote.

[SPEAKER_01]: Have you read that one yet?

[SPEAKER_01]: The warrior's gone.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes [SPEAKER_01]: sat on the woods and read that book for a few days or a day or two and then which was exactly about doing that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I saw every sunset, every sunrise, the only person I talked to was a few people at work and people in Hunt Camp and it was awesome and two days into it I was happy again, I was I had perspective, I had no idea what was going on and [SPEAKER_01]: I came back to the world and everyone's I hid you see us like no, didn't see any of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea what's going on in the world and I realized that that's okay and and unfortunately I've gotten sucked back into the vortex of everything but you know I'm one of my [SPEAKER_01]: One of my favorite lines from John Prime is, you know, and I look at the, and he wrote the line in 1970.

[SPEAKER_01]: It says, blow up your TV, throw away your paper, move to the country and get and build you a home.

[SPEAKER_01]: Playing a little garden, eat a lot of peaches, trying to find Jesus on your own.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, man, they got had to figure it out in 1970, and it's never, in my opinion, been more evident.

[SPEAKER_01]: uh...

when we saw that case the case study of the vitraal horribleness of people back and forth back and forth both sides you know of that of that experience and it was like you know if this whole thing like you said at the internet just blows up today i'm totally good with it i'll go back to nineteen ninety five and that long [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it just, I was, like, I think what I called it, let me pull up the actual life for God because actually I pretty good are.

[SPEAKER_03]: If you guys go to TalkToMeJohnny.com, I have it called when words become weapons, and it was like the note I put it is in about politics, it's about what happens when dialogue dies.

[SPEAKER_03]: I spent my life in locker rooms, weight rooms, and training rooms where you can speak your mind or you are still shake hands after.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's how men sharpen one another through honesty and not hostility.

[SPEAKER_03]: The old age, old age says iron sharpen's iron is one man sharpen's another, which is a quote to the Bible even though I've co-opted it.

[SPEAKER_03]: But somewhere along the way that disappeared when disagreement became heresy and emotion-replaced reason, the foundation for a free society started to crack.

[SPEAKER_03]: Where we've confused fragility for virtue outraged for courage and comfort for truth.

[SPEAKER_03]: And the result isn't progress.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's paralysis.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I call it the death of dialogue.

[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, it works, Beth John.

[SPEAKER_01]: It helps it to really smart.

[SPEAKER_01]: But that was a very, [SPEAKER_03]: I worked on this one and I actually said I was like I haven't commented on Charlie Kirk assassination because I'm struggling with what I've seen with thousands of people celebrating the death of a man for dared who dared to speak his truth.

[SPEAKER_03]: What he believed in daring to engage college kids in open discussion.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean in the true spirit of Soak Socrates who was condemned for corrupting the youth by teaching them to thank he engaged the youth in [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, and his death marks how far we fall in that now people view his rhetoric as so inflammatory So that he's [SPEAKER_03]: Well, the other thing which is wild is a 30 out six at 200 yards and I know you hunt with a 30 out six in half and I've killed things with a 30 out six, that's a big bullet.

[SPEAKER_03]: And shoot him in the neck, I mean, obviously nobody shoots anybody in the neck, either shoot in the chest or the head, I mean, the next kind of a no man, so I mean, it was an experience.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not what you would generally go for.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, you like, and for the most part, like you don't even aim at the head.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, my center mass would be the option.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So this conversation with Michael Adel at El Camp.

[SPEAKER_01]: the next week, and we were, you know, both of us shot a lot of stuff, a lot of 36.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we were, we were discussing was was the rifle side in for a hundred, and it dropped, which is a bit more of the drop than it would have at 200 yards, or was it side in, goes, it was his dad's, or granddad's hunting rifle side in for 300, because he was, [SPEAKER_01]: Because he was a, you know, an elk hunter out there, which would put it about four or five inches, four inches, five inches high at a hundred.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right, 200.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, okay, as was it aimed here, you know, again, I don't want to get into the gruesome details of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, start looking at weaponized mathematics, or was the guy just a bad shot.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it, or was he strangely very accurate and decided that shot placement.

[SPEAKER_01]: or is it the multiple conspiracy theories that you and so part of it I just kind of went to all of it and said you know what unfortunately he's dead and unfortunately we've seen people how they feel about [SPEAKER_01]: the killing of an innocent person, and I just really don't want anything to do with it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's gross.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's like Lee, it's gross, and I think we are worse as a country for seeing behind the veil of individuals.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, and you know, I wrote that article and I posted it on our power off, they private discord, and it was pretty interesting.

[SPEAKER_03]: It got super inflammatory really quickly.

[SPEAKER_03]: I would ban it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it'd be interesting to hear how that shook.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, not to dive down that hole, [SPEAKER_01]: Again, I don't want anyone to be killed, but so it's like really, really bad people that are truly hurt people, and I have a hard time to pack myself on in any group that wants to see someone assassinate, that's just a hard pill for me to swallow.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, you shouldn't be killed for words, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I think on this, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we grew up in a different time, which was, you know, sticks and stones, may break my bones, that names will never hurt me.

[SPEAKER_03]: When, and this was, there was a great book called Coddly in the American Mind, we're all the seven-year-olds.

[SPEAKER_03]: Great book, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Now, the words cause stress, stress, you know, damage is me, so now words are weapons, and because you're gonna hurt me, because these words are so stressful to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so wait is caused stress too and they call it make you to be strong.

[SPEAKER_01]: The stressors, we're in the business of stressors, guys.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: But sorry.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, but I mean, that was, you know, inflammatory rhetoric, I mean, the things that people would say, I mean, it's, I mean, liberty is standing on a box, you know, one inch from somebody screaming at the top of your lung something in opposition that they would stand on a box, scream for the rest of their lives in opposition of you.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's, that's what this country was built upon.

[SPEAKER_03]: now you get into a situation where this guy gets killed.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, or, you know, and then the conspiracy theory is, is, you know, was this a message to a guy like Trump being like, hey, man, we can, you know, because maybe think Charlie Kirk at the rate he was going, if he doesn't get taken off the board, probably has an opportunity to be a president in about 10 years.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't disagree.

[SPEAKER_03]: early 40s to be president.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that individual had so much bandwidth and was such a skilled or an argument, I mean, you know, the skilled rederation, that that individual puts himself into a situation.

[SPEAKER_03]: So to basically take him off the board, you know, you start removing, you know, future leaders of this country and whether or not whatever side you sit on like that's we are a worse nation for it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Correct.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm not letting the lat letting it all shake out and come out [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, like, how did all, like, how did we get here?

[SPEAKER_03]: I think, I think the government and, you know, when I say the government, are you talking about, like, you know, the government employees of this, I mean, [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of things that happened in this country that are founding fathers stood against that we've had since walked back on like, you know, taking us off the gold standard.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, they felt that we should never have a standing army.

[SPEAKER_03]: There should never be a centralized bank.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then you look around, you know, we got a federal reserve that's not, not a federal or reserve.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, probably on bank that controls our money.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you look at that federal reserve.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a conspiracy theory, John.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's not a conspiracy theory, there's a great book about it, I'm joking.

[SPEAKER_03]: I know you know this, but like you look at all of these different pieces of this.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, there's a reason that the U.S.

government is by far the largest employer in this country into the nanny state.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, there's just a lot of pieces in this that they've been building.

[SPEAKER_03]: And when I say that they, I don't know who they is, it's individuals that have a vested interest in the manipulation of this thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: And for, I think, for people like us, and I'll say people like us because you're like [SPEAKER_03]: You know, you want to basically, you pay your protection money to the IRS so they leave you alone so you can live your life and enjoy life-librating pursuit of happiness and raise your children and live a good life.

[SPEAKER_03]: Unabated by this stuff and [SPEAKER_03]: I think what's amazing is that we've been so co-opted and people are so inflammatory that like no longer is there any intelligent discourse, no longer is there intelligent conversation.

[SPEAKER_03]: Can you sit and have an argument or not even an argument, just some conversation with somebody as a different political view than you were.

[SPEAKER_01]: A candid and curious conversation with someone that doesn't necessarily come from the same background.

[SPEAKER_01]: that that's the hardest part can can did as in I actually will tell you what I think and curious is I actually care what you think and you don't you don't get that anymore and it's in I think Pat Ivy was talking about seeing I have these conversations as well like how do you solve this how do you solve some of these divisive issues and divisive cultures and his thought is proximity it's like get beside them you know invite that person [SPEAKER_01]: invite go into their life, understand what their experience is, and then you could have start having a conversation.

[SPEAKER_01]: He and I've been talking about this for years and years.

[SPEAKER_01]: And in some ways, that's exactly what Charlie was doing.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was getting proximate.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was getting right there with people and giving them the voice.

[SPEAKER_01]: And unfortunately, maybe it's too effective and he had to be silenced unfortunately.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, what I'm worried about, and I actually wrote that [SPEAKER_03]: And that vacuum is going to be filled by the worst individuals who are going to have extremely, like, negative, not the direction this country needs to go.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that's what's happening.

[SPEAKER_03]: You see that echo chamber getting filled.

[SPEAKER_03]: Do you think that vacuum is getting filled?

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's going to get filled by fucking bad people.

[SPEAKER_03]: And if it's sadly on...

[SPEAKER_03]: So, we all love squats.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, no, I was going to ask a little bit about how the hunting is going this year.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you are by far one of the, you know, coolest individuals that I've ever come across in terms of not only your dedication to physical preparation and raising your physical readiness, your just operational readiness in terms of like, [SPEAKER_03]: hunting in this and like everything like like this is like you've gone deep like this is not only your hobby but it's your passion I mean obviously lifting weights is but in terms of like hunting you go take some amazing big game every time I get to see the pictures I'm sad when you get off social because unfortunately that's where I get to see all the cool stuff like if you look at my feet it's it's kind of funny it's it's basically it's trucks and it's hunting [SPEAKER_03]: And when I'm around the Brazilians a lot, it's usually a lot of jiu-jitsu and big-budded Brazilian girls.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I got a really cool dope thing of like trucks, guns, big-budded Brazilian girls usually stakes and then jiu-jitsu.

[SPEAKER_01]: Isn't it so interesting that the algorithm figures this out?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm hunting, it's usually some kind of like, [SPEAKER_01]: And who knows who actually constructs these videos?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like all the weird mechanicals to how stuff works.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like when a guy would like a dwalt drill, could like build a spaceship.

[SPEAKER_01]: Or those ones, the guy's the dig doesn't hold and then creates this shelter that looks like a rock.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll watch the whole thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And those mechanical things are just, again, massaging to my brain, knives, cooking outside over fires, [SPEAKER_01]: And then like some of the people that do some like the home school parenting things and how to lead in that way.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then of course, you know, strength stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: But then if you look to my camera and my phone, that's basically my entire 45 billion pictures are either trail time or pictures animals.

[SPEAKER_01]: kid, my kids, my wife, and weightrooms.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right, that's not it.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's 98% of the by all my pictures.

[SPEAKER_03]: You guys build the Taj Mahal of college and professional weightrooms.

[SPEAKER_03]: I find myself on YouTube.

[SPEAKER_03]: I watch all the time.

[SPEAKER_03]: They alone in the wilderness to deal with Richard Ponecki.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, where he was.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had the VHS from Ponecki.

[SPEAKER_03]: Dude, so he filmed, you know, he goes in the last while the Wilderness for 30 years and films in like eight millimeter, which is like the coolest thing ever in the documentary.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then does the documentary.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, does the, uh, [SPEAKER_03]: I guess what, no, what is it like the narration?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's amazing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I found like 20 years ago, I would lay on the couch and just watch for hours, just like massage.

[SPEAKER_03]: My mouth is like, I am like, might be the most impressive human being I've ever come across.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: For the fact that like one, he never seemed to have a bad day.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_01]: Wasn't in a hurry.

[SPEAKER_03]: Wasn't in a hurry.

[SPEAKER_03]: And his ability to [SPEAKER_03]: tackle extremely large projects in like insane amount of time where he's like, I'm going to build this cabin in this and he's like super positive, never a bad day.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, the only thing I'm thinking is like, there's one thing missing from this whole thing is women.

[SPEAKER_03]: Could it be the fact that like, yeah, he didn't have to manage women?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think that certainly narrows his focus.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, that seems like a lot of fucking drama to me and this girl seems feisty, but maybe he's like, you know, maybe he figured it out.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, you know what?

[SPEAKER_03]: I got like, I can hunt, I can live, I can fish, and I get to build shit, and I got nobody asking me where I'm going to go to dinner.

[SPEAKER_03]: What time I'm going to be home and we're going to be home.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, how long is this going to take?

[SPEAKER_03]: How long am I going to have to sleep out?

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's always these questions.

[SPEAKER_03]: I just, I dealt with this morning.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, we had a dude come who, they do our wildlife, kind of like every, probably six months they come and they kind of do like a, because we have wildlife exemption.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, cool.

[SPEAKER_03]: So they have, we have the higher, your place is awesome, by the way, man.

[SPEAKER_01]: I need to, I need to come and see you again down there.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we just had our, at the collective, we had, you know, GoRuck, who was an incredible sponsor, sent us about 20 grand worth of shit, like the same as he still had.

[SPEAKER_03]: They sent us a whole piece insane sandbags.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we did kind of like a GoRuck challenge around the creek.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I went out and looked at it and it was kind of like a little treacherous.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I got out my, my mulcher and I basically kind of like mulched everything and we've been still, you know, see the poisoning again.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, I did that once, I was smart enough to go do that again, but I've also knocked down enough, but the issue comes down to in Texas, there's a time to work, which is when the weather is cool, and the problem was once it got hot, the rain stopped, and so because the rain stopped the sparks, it's just like it doesn't make sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I had to stop for four or five months and the place just exploded again.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I felt like all the progress I made, I got to go back and beat the shit out of it.

[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, we did this like pitch and loop, and it was a lot of fun.

[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, so when we were long story short, the guy came out the other day to do kind of an evaluation for a wildlife deal, and he's like, hey, you get some hog traps or like a hog prince.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, where?

[SPEAKER_03]: I was just all over that creek and I didn't see him.

[SPEAKER_03]: So he sent me a picture, and I haven't been down, but after I get down with this, I'm going to go look.

[SPEAKER_01]: and um...

they didn't trip my camps i don't know where they're coming so i i'm gonna drag the hog trap over and see if i can trap some dude hogs are way smarter than people think especially a big bore is every bit of smart is a big buck they they get stuff to figure out especially if they've been trapped or around traps they they're not done by any means everyone thinks they're just a big pig now they're pretty sharp [SPEAKER_03]: Well, what's kind of wild is the big bucks live up the road from us.

[SPEAKER_03]: They live about three miles up the road because my buddy lives up there.

[SPEAKER_03]: And he sends me pictures of them lounging on his lawn.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're like, oh, that's what they are.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I know where they live because all the do's live on my property.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, because he he never sees a doe.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so he only sees bucks.

[SPEAKER_01]: So they're busted up a guy like a big bachelor group.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and then all the do's lip on my property, because there's more because I have water, you know, 24 or so three.

[SPEAKER_01]: So when is your rut there?

[SPEAKER_01]: Is that is that a December rut?

[SPEAKER_03]: No, it already said, well, the rut, well, so hunting season opens, what is it on Saturday?

[SPEAKER_03]: So November 1.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: But the issue becomes, because we didn't get any rain, like we didn't get rain for like four or five months, it was so dry.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I just haven't seen, like we just haven't seen any of what we normally see.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like this time of year, it's usually like an early October.

[SPEAKER_03]: like probably two weeks were running season.

[SPEAKER_03]: I will see some incredible bucks that will show up and I'm always like, oh shit.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I know I'm not going to see him on hunting.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, you know, yeah, they installed this up here.

[SPEAKER_03]: I call him Ghostbox.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I haven't seen a decent buck.

[SPEAKER_03]: I've only seen some small kind of little antler bucks.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I was a little bombed, but I've been seeing [SPEAKER_03]: Last year, when I saw the pregnant mama, I saw the babies and we kind of like, you know, track them on the cams and this and like, I've seen about half of the babies that I saw, you know, when they were born.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you could actually reverse.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to say it's two hundred or two hundred and two days of gestation period.

[SPEAKER_01]: So when you're seeing those, those funds drop, you know, if you see one pregnant special in the feeder and then you see your next day or a couple of whatever, you can start figuring it back when they're bred.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that'll give you a pretty good idea when your rut's going to be there.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're holding the dough, as long as you could just feed them or get something there, ripping and holding those doughs, because yeah, the bucks will be off.

[SPEAKER_01]: And like, that's kind of how my farm in Missouri is they're like during the summer.

[SPEAKER_01]: The cameras would tell you there's not a deer.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's like five cameras and a few hundred acres and you'll get like one deer every five days.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, this place sucks.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then right now, I think that all the deer in general start pulling off all of the, [SPEAKER_01]: Aged fields and everything like that and they start coming to the woods and is you know five six seven eight buck pictures a day and they just get bigger and bigger and bigger and to mid November so it's different properties are set up differently and you know then I kind of feel I'm happy because when I'm hunting there that's actually a really good buck property.

[SPEAKER_01]: But what about the guys who've been watching these hammers all summer and they're like, oh, here we go, and then they just vanish like poof, they're going, you know, so if you're, I mean in my opinion Where you have the do's like that's the that's the spot you want to be, but you just got to make sure you're hitting that rut and making sure the do's have the cover, the water and the food where they want to be there And they're going to try to hide from the bucks there and then the bucks are going to run them rag it over your spot [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, now the, we usually count like this is wild too.

[SPEAKER_03]: I've like, normally I always have about 10 big moments, like like older mom is the kind of the this and we kind of charred them over the years.

[SPEAKER_03]: And even though they do get knocked down, what not.

[SPEAKER_03]: But this year, it feels very, very light and the reason being, it was just so dry.

[SPEAKER_03]: And the only place that has water is my place.

[SPEAKER_03]: So that's where, but I just haven't seen them.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I know exactly the trail they come.

[SPEAKER_03]: So they basically come this way.

[SPEAKER_03]: They jump over and they come through our west pasture.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I walked back there the other day, and the problem though, is that now there's a development there.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, like now there's construction in this and so I think the construction is messing them up But my wife is asking me she's like, you know, have you seen any like bucks or anything and I'm like just a little ones and so You put anything there Yeah, I put everything [SPEAKER_03]: No, we don't do food plots, but I basically feed him corn and protein all year round.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I can plant something and irrigate it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's amazing.

[SPEAKER_01]: You'll pull every deer from the area, a friend of mine in Colorado does that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he has these two acres of alfalfa at the base of a hill, of a basically a mountain range.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's when it's super dry.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he pumps water to it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, I'll get every buck within miles here.

[SPEAKER_01]: and so it's a really interesting way because I mean they need water and they need good green.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if everything is dry like you have them, it's going to cost you some money and water.

[SPEAKER_01]: but that might be something to even look at.

[SPEAKER_01]: It might take you a little bit of infrastructure to do it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, we have a rainwater collection.

[SPEAKER_03]: So what I would, you know, so we could light up.

[SPEAKER_03]: I just didn't light it up this year, mainly because in years past when it was super dry.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: If you looked at any of the Google images, my properties completely green and everybody else is really good for you.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was like, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's not a bad deal.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, if this, I got a few projects to bang out, which I'm pretty excited to, so now that the collective is done and everything else is kind of ramping up a little bit, or a great ramping down.

[SPEAKER_03]: But so what, uh, give me a rundown on where you've been this far and some of the things that you did.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I went to Colorado.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was my first hunt of the year, [SPEAKER_01]: and got one there that was like right around the the the whole September 10th 11th and so I was able to be off grid and that was awesome saw a bunch of great bucks got a good one shot my bow and so that was super fun I drove straight from there to Utah for elk camp with a bunch of buds up that way and passed up [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's one of the best elk hunting spots in the world.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I kind of put my sights on one of the 330 inch or bigger bull, like a big bull.

[SPEAKER_01]: And past up a ton of the 310, 315s, even 320 bulls, which are, you know, for those like 300 inch bulls, pretty strong.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, probably shouldn't have passed up those 320s at, you know, 18 yards.

[SPEAKER_01]: you know, when you're, when you're deciding to go for it, you know, whatever.

[SPEAKER_01]: And last day, well, the second, the last day, I had an absolute tank tank of a bull.

[SPEAKER_01]: He had triple main beams.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he had one main, two, like a normal six by, and then he had another main coming off.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was 400 inch bull, like an absolute grinder of a bull.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm from about 700 yards out in a wall.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, just throwing mud.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was like, I looked at my guide.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, run, go, go.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, I don't get close to that bull.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was just trucking, you know, it's 8,000 feet elevation.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you're running there.

[SPEAKER_01]: So this bull had this like really growly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like a lot of boatless bulls have that.

[SPEAKER_01]: you know, and some of them had like a raspy, but this one sounded like a bull, like a cow, like, brah, like this weird.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you could pick him out.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so he got works to know this thick it, and so I work in after and trying to track him through this thick it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of like, you're walking through this thick you have no idea.

[SPEAKER_01]: And every time he would rip off that bugle it would like shake the thick it, and I'm like, oh my gosh, like I'm gonna top of this dude, like, you know, but it was so thick.

[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't see him.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm just creeping along super quiet, [SPEAKER_01]: a bowl of a lifetime could be super close and every time he would rip off.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it was like super fun and hair raising and I, there was a big hill and he was, when he was ripping at me, he, I couldn't seem on the hill.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I knew he had to still be in the thick and the hill was like 80 yards away.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I know I was within 80 of him, which is too far for shot, especially in the thick.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, at 50 in that thick, if I had a window, I would have taken that shot.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, that's when, [SPEAKER_01]: What I found from that style of hunting.

[SPEAKER_01]: the spot and stalk style why I get so addicted to it because it's so makes you so present.

[SPEAKER_01]: There was nothing else on earth that I thought about when I was, you know, trying to catch my breath and your heart is just pounding not only because of the altitude and the exercise but just like you're you're hunting a dinosaur and in your slip and through there and you had this little bow in your hand and this thing is ripping off these, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: godzilla like bugles and you know it's like anytime you might catch a time or whatever and you might be right on top of him.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it was just ultimate focus for about 20 minutes and then anyway he ended up slipping away from me.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was second day and then I came back to camp and I mentioned that bull and everyone at camp kind of turned and they're like oh my gosh you saw that bull and you know this is 250,000 acres and they're like you're the closest.

[SPEAKER_01]: What's that?

[SPEAKER_01]: where was the property and Utah just what east of Salt Lake.

[SPEAKER_01]: So right on the Wyoming border.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so everyone was kind of like oh my gosh you saw that bowl and and said well yeah I was 80 or like I don't I don't believe anyone's been that close to and we've been hunting for a few years and had some guys going after him.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you know I kind of blended into it but still it's like one of those [SPEAKER_01]: Everything is really, really cool until you see something that special out there and then it just raises the ceiling of what you know as possible, you're like, oh, they make those.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's a thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the next day, of course, we were out and of course you don't see him the second day and then I had about a 350 bull come in at 67 yards chasing a cow.

[SPEAKER_01]: We called her in the cow kind of made where the guides were that she was she paused stopped he stopped at 67 yards.

[SPEAKER_01]: which is kind of where I shoot all the time and and I would have definitely gone for the shot but he was quartered a little bit to me just a enough and it's you know at 30 yards you could slip it behind that shoulder to the arrow but for those bow hunters that know if he's quartered into a little bit that shoulder blade is covering up at least half of his vitals.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't want to I don't want to make a bad shot and woundable like that you know your three inches forward you hit that shoulder it get to inches of penetration and you just you just woundable for no reason you hit two or three inches back you catch one long and the and the the stomach and then he runs off maybe dies a week later.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's not what I want either.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I passed on a, you know, a bomber of a bull.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was the last day, probably should, you know, and I had another 320 bull come in and probably should have killed him.

[SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, so I walked away from Utah Eaton Tag suit.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I feel good about the situation, you know, you kind of look at yourself and like, oh my gosh, a hundred for a week and saw this amazing stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: But then I walk away and [SPEAKER_01]: I shared camp with some amazing people.

[SPEAKER_01]: I saw every sunset and sunrise for almost two weeks.

[SPEAKER_01]: I walked, you know, eight to 10 miles a day in the mountains, the most beautiful mountains.

[SPEAKER_01]: I left the world behind besides face time with my wife every day.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm good with this.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm totally good with this.

[SPEAKER_01]: And by the last day, I'll be honest, I didn't want to come back.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, what do I have to do to do this everyday in my life?

[SPEAKER_01]: What do I have to do to make this what I do?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because this is wildly addictive.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, your body start, your body's breaking down because you're just working so hard every day at altitude and so there's like this physical decrease.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're starting to get in a accommodation to it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, but like that last day you're like, if I don't die today, I'm probably going to be fine tomorrow.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I could probably do this for like a few more months.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh man, like, in y'am driving to the airport, like kind of depressed of coming home because I'm like, oh.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's living, that's where I want to be, like in here, and for me, that style of hunting is so, you're so present, it reminded me of lifting really, really heavy weights that want to kill you, because when we've joked about it before, like 300 on your back, if you're strong, it's just kind of sucks because it's not heavy enough to be fun and it's heavy enough to be heavy.

[SPEAKER_01]: But 500 or 600 is like, oh, I kind of want to kill you so now you now you got a fight right like it's kind of like probably football practice versus a game You want to play in a playoff game practice.

[SPEAKER_03]: Eh, it's still hard and so I've found that the sides Interestingly is the there's a different level of consciousness in the brain and actually It's like a flow state, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, who is it, um, um, um, I'm totally forgetting, uh, Thomas, um, I don't know, totally, um, kind of, I'm totally gonna, uh, Dr.

Cramer and my buddy Tom is, uh, like, they wrote a book and in there they talk about, um, percentage of 1 RM activates, like, different parts of the cortex.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: And the only way that you're able to activate that, like, top level of cortex is to get under a weight that is so heavy.

[SPEAKER_03]: that you're like basically rewires into your survival instinct.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like if I don't squash this, I'm gonna do that.

[SPEAKER_03]: And there's a higher order for that.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I think what you're talking about is the same thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: I listen to what you're talking about, and I completely, like so there's two types of people, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Like you listen to that, and I think, man, if I got an opportunity to do that for the rest of my life, I'd be more than happy.

[SPEAKER_03]: If you ask me to say, hey, would you do the same thing with golf every day for the rest of your life?

[SPEAKER_03]: I would say, fuck no.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't want to do it for one day.

[SPEAKER_03]: like golf and there's people that I know like, um, Jamal Charles, you know, he's our daughters or friends.

[SPEAKER_03]: They play basketball.

[SPEAKER_03]: He plays golf every single day, five, six days a week.

[SPEAKER_03]: He goes and plays golf and he's like, hey, do you want to play golf?

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, no, not at all.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, if I got free, I'm, I mean, like, you basically, he just gets up and he plays golf.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, I still work a job.

[SPEAKER_03]: But if I did not have this job and I was just able to go do whatever I want, it would probably be like, I would do this every single day and then when I wasn't doing it, [SPEAKER_03]: We would probably just go home and build crazy shit to be able to drive fucking get shit like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and that's kind of what I realize like, wow, lifting heavy weights is really fun competing with high stakes is fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: Kick in your ass and the mountain is going like when you're all of your senses are super turned on trying to hear every little crack and stick and all this little and you're walking through and you have this little bow in your hand and I'm like all that matters on earth right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's fine in this animal.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if everything goes well, and I do my job that I've prepared hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours for, if I get that chance, I could potentially put an arrow in the bowl of a lifetime that they were telling me that, like, there's like, that's one of the biggest bowls that have ever been, if you killed it, that have ever been on this ranch.

[SPEAKER_03]: And like, so you were in the thicket, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you heard it people.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, like, what was the, [SPEAKER_01]: like I mean you're moving towards it and then it just goes out like I mean what's the yeah so I'm he's he's moving and I could hear him as he's moving through like the the sound is you know echoing through the thick it and it was almost kind of like one of the Vietnam movies because everything got really dark and it was towards the end of the I mean it was like an hour before dark so everything in the thick it was dark so you kind of walk in into this dark thick it would just kind of like ominous in itself and [SPEAKER_01]: but it's you know you're you're not afraid of an elk but you had this weird like tingle in your spine you're like like I'm hunting this apex now he's not a predator but he's the apex dude like no sweat like he's the king and now you're in this chest match [SPEAKER_01]: and you're listening to like was it what direction does it sound like his head is facing when he's belting off and like in my is he closer or is his is his sound coming off of that hill and all this stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway I was working into him and then he just kind of shut off and I'm like okay as he [SPEAKER_01]: 40 yards for me and I just can't see him is he watching me is like is he looking for like what's the whole thing and then I talked to my guides after that and they were watching from a couple hundred yards out and they said he basically just slipped up this hill and just silently exited the scene you know stage right and he just decided at some point that either [SPEAKER_01]: he had had enough and he wasn't falling for the the cows, you know, mue and at a many more or he just had that weird sixth sense to like his spidey sense was telling him that like I need to get out of here and I don't need to make a big deal about getting out of here.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just need to get out of here, you know, 800 pound animal with knives on his head.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's just like, I'm out.

[SPEAKER_03]: And he just goes, all of that needs, though.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he has to have something innate within them to allow him to be able to survive that long.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: He just gets it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just, I need to go, and I need to go now.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not going to tell, I'm Irish goodbye champion of the world, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: He's poppin smoke, and he's gone.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so my guide for like, yeah, we watched him from 300 yards away.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we thought you were right on top of him.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we watched him work over this hill.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we, we high-tailed it to that top of the next ridge to look for him and just like every movie like the villain's gone like he guys are so they the whole thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, um, and my, my buddy who would, who would, you know, brought me up there and he was telling me he's like dude.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, go to that section tomorrow and just run as fast as you can through the ranch until you hear his bugle.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, you could hear it above everyone.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you'll know that, you know what I was like, oh, I know his bugle.

[SPEAKER_01]: He goes, he goes, screw every other bull.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, [SPEAKER_01]: anything you hear don't worry about it goes until you hear that big sucker bellow and then go after me try to kill and i was like what are the chances of that work and he's like oh almost no chance he goes but if you want to do something truly amazing he's like you have to [SPEAKER_01]: And which I love the mindset of that right if like if you want to win the Super Bowl, you need to like not do any of this other fun stuff in life and this is what you're going after.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so like just those stakes right like just those stakes and just that like I might be hunting the smartest bowl and [SPEAKER_01]: 100 square mile a year.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know like maybe maybe he's done maybe screws up, but then when they were like, oh, yeah, so and so it's come here to try to kill him so and so and so like all these people like dudes you've heard of And like, man, they didn't get the job done on this guy like I feel blessed that I just shared space with him, you know, and So off channel, I'll text you the the video they took at that bull this summer and he's a fricking dog and so it's just like, but man, I just wind it opens up your mind to that type of thing [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know man it gets it gets pretty addictive and then of course while you're doing it you're like man I should have trained altitudes sprints more could I have closed distance faster could I you know and so like now in my in my binocular case the you know so my chest my chest rig you know we kept every time we were there the guide would like hey man I see that bullet where you got to get moving right now and I've remembered like trucking you know but you're at altitude you got to pack you've been [SPEAKER_01]: and I remember starting to get worn out and it's so inside my thing when I flip up my binocular case it just says get moving.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's kind of reminding me like hey man, [SPEAKER_01]: You being out of shape or slow right now is not helping your eventual store, you're trying to create right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, screw all that stuff you got to get moving.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's just a good reminder for me when I don't want to do high interval cardio or anything like that, it's like, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: But next time you get that chance, actually it was, so it reminded me, it was five, six, seven years ago, I went over to Cam Cameron Haineses and we climbed that Pizka Mountain, that little run that he does.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I just come from no altitude.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like 260 pounds.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I was like training hards big, strong, whatever.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't doing a lot of cardio, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: How much do you weigh in now?

[SPEAKER_01]: What's that?

[SPEAKER_03]: How much weigh in now?

[SPEAKER_01]: 240, 240, too, somewhere in there.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we are booking it up this mountain, then of course, [SPEAKER_01]: I start I start hurting pretty bad and it was like a mile and a half but it was a you know it's a pretty steep in climb.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like 1,500 feet elevation.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think cams doing it like 13 or 15 minutes or some nonsense.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he gets up to the top and then comes back down and I'm like walk and I can't run anymore.

[SPEAKER_01]: and he and I were talking.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, everyone, everyone wonders why I tried to run a marathon so often and do this run every day during lunch.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I never forget we're walking.

[SPEAKER_01]: He goes, hey, if we, if we crest that next, if we come around that corner in a bowl of a lifetime at 70 yards, could you make that shot right now?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, no, probably not.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he goes, that's why I do this every day.

[SPEAKER_01]: But isn't he tiny, isn't he like a wee little man, isn't he like, he's relatively, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he [SPEAKER_01]: Would that 80 yards have been 50?

[SPEAKER_01]: And would that have been the chance of a lifetime?

[SPEAKER_01]: And then that haunts you, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And then that's the, I will train the best of my ability to not have that happen again.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's a driver, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you and I are both visionaries and dreamers.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then so I put these audacious goals out there.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then it's maybe we watch two and eighties movies, but you kind of just go, okay, how am I gonna do the work right now?

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, the, uh, uh, on a hilarious note, you'll appreciate this, uh, you know, Matt Vincent's a big, uh, Burning Man guy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: So he always, you know, like, he and Bonnie go to Burning Man, it's like this big deal.

[SPEAKER_03]: They have all these costumes and it's like kind of like one of their, like, Makas and they go with all their friends.

[SPEAKER_03]: So he sends me pictures.

[SPEAKER_03]: And the only thing I'm obsessed with Burning Man about is the, uh, Immute and Vehicles.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Straight out of the floor.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, you can apply to get what's called like a mutant vehicle permit and then you have to like send in drawings and they basically give you a permit You get to bring these crazy vehicles and like so Matt like whenever like you know I have no interest to go to Burning Man for you know the fact that it's like you know I mean obviously the music school and the sightseeing and the people but like I'm not going there to fucking do Molly and take a bunch of drugs and you know go out dance in the desert Yeah, I work for G days or past your job [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, I mean, maybe it could be, I don't know, maybe, yeah, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I could probably reboot that time in my life, I mean, you know, but I'm obsessed with the vehicles.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so when that was me, you should go on like the only way I'm going is if we find a way to build an insane vehicle and this requires Johnny, Sornex, and then me.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then we're gonna show up and like if we could build the most insane vehicle because I don't know if you've seen it like they have pirate ships on wheels They have space ships like this guy like like there's an entire book that I bought that's all the like the vehicles are burning man And these guys spent out of years building these insane vehicles and I'm like okay [SPEAKER_03]: that is something I'm in.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going there for this like weird kind of I don't know like dancing in the desert like if there's something to build and we can show up is something that like tests the time.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean like I like I said I went on that unreal adventure tour or trip with my truck and I spent three years building this truck and it was painted and nice and we had to drag it over rocks and people like I can't believe you did it.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like well like it's kind of like my body.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like if you build this thing, you have to build it to break and you have to go out and test it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you have to have it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And like if you build something and you're afraid to use it, then like what the fuck good is it?

[SPEAKER_03]: It's useless.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like I mean, you know, like put yourself [SPEAKER_03]: Like, you put yourself in that situation, did you execute and kill the bull that you wanted?

[SPEAKER_03]: No, but this is what spurs you to do it.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the one thing I'm always impressed with, all of you guys with you and Cameron Haynes, I'm always amazed at the distance at which you guys can accurately shoot your boasts.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I am...

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm good like outside of 30 like so 30 yards even maybe 40 anything outside of that and obviously playing in the NFL I'm pretty fucking good at judging distance like I know what 40 yards is.

[SPEAKER_03]: I know what they're pretty.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, no, I mean, just the fact that I've stood on the 20-yard line and I know exactly how far we need to get to get it and run enough hundreds and one-tens and fifties that I'm almost like a circus guy, like guessing more.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm good at that too.

[SPEAKER_03]: I can guess weight better than anybody because you have to size dudes up.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, and go in short distances and anything you can throw a hammer to.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm really good at deciding that distance.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like in the NFL, they come and they do a scary part of this guys 300 pounds and you show up and you're like that But the fuckers not 300 pounds like two or seven I was in my second I was in my second year and we went to go play buffalo And they had Ted Washington listed at 340 in the program and when I showed up They got the three in the four mixed up he was four three [SPEAKER_03]: And I remember looking at him like there's no way that dude's 340 because like there were dudes that were like 350 pounds and he was way bigger than that.

[SPEAKER_03]: So you can get a judge in this stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: But like I'm always amazed when I shoot those when I watch you guys shoot on video that like one with the accuracy and just like the relaxation and the accuracy.

[SPEAKER_03]: But it's probably just [SPEAKER_03]: the opportunity to shoot at that distance.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's one thing to shoot at targets at that distance.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's another thing to shoot something that might move at any moment to be able to accurately be able to, with confidence, and to get enough energy per square inch off of that narrow and the placement.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's such an incredible, I mean, shooting again is one thing, but shooting an arrow at that distance is completely next level.

[SPEAKER_01]: it is and I will say I appreciate that I will say you know I wouldn't highly suggest shooting super far distances at animals I mean we train you know that 678 yards whatever to make the 40 yard shot like a chip shot right like he always try to train harder and in heavier and everything then you're actually going to compete you know that being said had that bull you know that has a you know has a [SPEAKER_01]: along that big, you know, if he had turned, and he did briefly turn, but it was to swap ends, you know, at 67, and I was able to like feel like I was locked in on the shot.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'd had touched one off, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, there's, I think, I think Cam killed a bull.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like he put a second shot on one.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was like a 101 yard, something of long those lines.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if you look at, I mean, there's a different level with the John Dudley's and the, [SPEAKER_01]: the cam is obviously great that Levi Morgan like those are some dudes that could shoot like I could shoot compared to normal dudes.

[SPEAKER_01]: there's some dudes that could really shoot.

[SPEAKER_01]: And but you know, I've also found, if I, the shortest I shoot at home is about 50 to 55 yards, that's kind of my starter.

[SPEAKER_01]: But then, you know, the majority of stuff I shoot in the woods is, you know, I think last few bucks I've killed 21 yards, seven yards, 14 yards, 31 yards, [SPEAKER_01]: 27 yards so like those shots almost feel like you're shooting at a wall because they're just like oh my gosh I have all this stuff, you know, and so you know again, it's just it's training right it's what we learned in training You just you'd make it really really hard so when when the test comes that you have the highest probability of passing So but yeah, I would only kill two bulls with the bow one was at 60 and one was at six so six yards by the way is wild [SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, I mean at that point you're like it's so close.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to miss.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he was frontal screaming just like that, you know, tucked back and everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'd literally a bull has like, you know, that dark brown, you know, and then they go into the tan.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember I was at Full Draw and he walked in from 44 yards and his kind of quarter and two.

[SPEAKER_01]: So his shoulder was covered.

[SPEAKER_01]: and he kept getting closer and closer and closer and like at 10 he just stopped for a minute and I was already a full draw and I remember thinking I was like I'm God I'm strong because I could just hold this and I practice sometimes holding for like two minutes before I'll shoot just kind of like getting that muscle memory and trying to like stress every situation you know and I remember holding it and thinking like it's checkmate like [SPEAKER_01]: like unless you stay for minutes like I got you and he came in and got to six yards and then just turn straight toward me and just ripped off a bugle and I looked in all my pins on my bow or in in the brown on his neck and I'm like I could screw this up by a foot and I'm still in it you know and I just remembered like sitting there looking down his face and just going checkmate and I was just like all I have to do is pressure this trigger a little bit and it's a done deal and then just think [SPEAKER_01]: and he went 40 yards and just piled up and you know it was it was awesome like that was one of those like oh my gosh you just live for this excitement and this preparation and all this all this stuff you know and so you know you're funny you train at 70 yards all day long and then you shoot one at six like we're we're you in a ground blinder uh just we were sneaking out we saw we saw a bull from about 400 yards off and he was [SPEAKER_01]: and fired back up the next side of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, almost kind of given out like it was like, I was, I was sucking when pretty hard.

[SPEAKER_01]: We just got to the clearing and this big bowl was working up into this clearing under the woods like with these cows.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he was like, definitely the target guy we were looking for, and then so it was the last morning.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'd already told my guide.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, you know, he's there like just to kind of tell you like is this bull old enough kind of thing?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, hey, if we see a really big mature bull, I don't care what his antler's look like like as long as he's old enough today's last day.

[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, so the biggest one our target bull runs off and then right then we hear Like two bulls just rip off the side us and so this guy came out and I would just kind of hide in behind this little [SPEAKER_01]: little aspen tree and you know and I'm thinking he's going to come in front of me at forty four yards it's a done deal and then he just keeps working in closer and closer and closer and closer and closer this guy's going to run me over so I was just basically standing behind a tree and I think it's six yards he finally like ripped that bugle and looked at me like what the heck are you like why are you standing there and I was just being perfectly and I'm just looking at him like oh shit but you know unless he [SPEAKER_01]: But it was, I mean, dude, you have to do it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's so, it'll draw your eye in.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, when I, my buddy has a big property in California, he's got like 18,000 acres.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we hunt those two elk.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we chase those things through the mountains, like rolling mountains, like no coverage.

[SPEAKER_03]: We chase those things for three days through the mountains on foot.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I couldn't get within a quarter mile of those things.

[SPEAKER_03]: Dude, we would run this way for like three minutes to the point where I was like picking myself up the ground and then they would be like two miles this way I mean it was insane.

[SPEAKER_03]: I then on the on the morning of the fourth day The guys are like dude [SPEAKER_03]: Like we're not going to get close with a bow.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so we end up pulling out a gun.

[SPEAKER_03]: I threw it in a win bag and I ended up killing the nice one.

[SPEAKER_03]: Good.

[SPEAKER_03]: But the interesting thing is I've never killed anything big with a bow.

[SPEAKER_03]: I've shot turkeys.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm shot small deer.

[SPEAKER_03]: I've never shot anything of like big value.

[SPEAKER_03]: I've never even taken like a big buck.

[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_03]: So the one of my goals is to be able to actually take something of note worth like a picture worth, you know, just something where I'm like trying to get rid of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I've shot like, you know, [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, I mean, well, that's what we do with the dose, I mean, I think for my wildlife, we have to take like five dose.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we got knock them down.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I shoot them with a bow, but then they're little, we drag them in and I park it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Lean them and take them to the processor and then we, you know, deer sausage and I basically take like the venison and mix it with ground beef and like, you know, my wife was funny.

[SPEAKER_03]: We ate their last of the deer sausage and she was like, you know, we're out of, because she takes it and puts it in with tomato sauce and then it makes it for the kids with spaghetti.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's like, yeah, that's like, so she's like, you know, we just went through the last package and I'm like, all right, she's like, you're going to kill some more of these things.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, of course.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, easy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Isn't that the best thing?

[SPEAKER_01]: Isn't the best thing in the world?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, when my wife's like, hey, we're running, we're running kind of low.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, oh, man, I got to go hunting and she's like, right, because you never get to go.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, well, huh, like, you know, I'll help you out here.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then you feel kind of stupid because if you're actually hunting big deer, you're passing up a lot of little ones and you come home.

[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, getting thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, well, you know, and she's like, [SPEAKER_01]: okay we eat these things too like you don't have to wait for this monster to come through and then it's usually like the last week of the season i just go on like a spree and i'll i'm killing like one or two a day i'm just bringing them back and then we just i'd say how many we each he's like we need three deer for the freezers and it's just go go go go go go and then which is fun but uh you know but it's nice when you get cleared hot for the wife go up there and yes we're shot [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, I took a pretty good buck that I shot last year, but sure enough, it was one of those deals where I went out and I hunted, I hunted, I hunted, had my bow, the whole deal.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then all of a sudden, I'm like, going to the backyard, like to get like, or actually I was sitting at the kitchen table and I'm looking out the back and I'm like, oh, so I literally ran out there, had the gun on the tripod, knocked him down.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, I sat out there in my blind, I've like, like, sit, didn't see him.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then I'm just like, let's see.

[SPEAKER_03]: And they don't come at times like like normally like like they know when the feeders go off They don't come at that time and all of a sudden you see them strolling through like the creek It like two in the afternoon and you're like what the fuck are you doing?

[SPEAKER_01]: There's no dose around because when's the last time you hunted it two in the afternoon?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the big-year pattern people faster than we patterned them that is what I've All the big dear killers that I know they all say the same thing and I've noticed [SPEAKER_01]: the big deer that I got the last part of last year, I had to do something totally different in order to kill him because I started realizing regardless of how many times I saw him in a row, if he was daylighting, I'm like, oh, first day, he's there, 5.30.

[SPEAKER_01]: Second day, 5.45, I'm like, oh, third day he's dead, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like no question to ask, when does perfect you're gone?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you're patterning.

[SPEAKER_01]: and every time I would sit for him, he would not only wouldn't show up that day, he wouldn't show up on any camera on my entire farm, and he wouldn't show up for a week.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, okay, I don't have to see this pattern too many times to start realizing like, I am intruding and he's figuring me out more than I'm figuring him out.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the day I actually killed him, it was last day the season, it was a torrential downpour.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I had said, well, he's going to be in his bed because they're going to bed in the rain and his rain and hard enough to he'll probably be hunkered down.

[SPEAKER_01]: His head will be down.

[SPEAKER_01]: He won't be watching wherever I'm walking in or whatever road I'm walking in on or if he hears the side by side, he's figured out what all that means.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I parked like a half mile further away and I circumvented my entire property in a torrential downpour to stay away from the thicket to stay away from everything and I slipped up in the stand and I just gambled as like if that rain stops, he's going to get up and shake it off and [SPEAKER_01]: And he's going to go try to get something to eat and like 30 minutes before it got dark in the last day, the rain stopped.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, oh, we got a chance.

[SPEAKER_01]: And about 10 minutes with the season left, I'm like, well, he won the game this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's that, like, you know, and I saw something flash in front of me, just a little in the thicket and I put up my binoculars.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was him standing up out of his bed.

[SPEAKER_01]: He had been 40 yards away and I thicket [SPEAKER_01]: But I what I realized was he walked watch me walk into that stand every time and he just wouldn't stand up like he just understood He was safe and because his head was down.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was the rain and I'd slipped in and totally different direction I just happened to get in there on him and he shook and I I have my binoculars and his big rack and he would just shaking all the water off his rack and just stood up And I'm like checkmate.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh.

[SPEAKER_01]: This actually worked [SPEAKER_01]: And I was excited about that.

[SPEAKER_01]: One is a good South Carolina White Tail probably as much as I was my Cape Buffalo in Africa.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like it was just the chess game that we had for two years.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, I lost more sleep over that one stupid deer and my family all knew who he was.

[SPEAKER_01]: I call him touch because his main beams would come around almost touch.

[SPEAKER_01]: My family's like, are you looking at touch again?

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I'm trying to figure this deer out.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was like this weird chess game between me and this stupid five-year-old White Tail.

[SPEAKER_01]: I put more effort into that than [SPEAKER_01]: probably much more than I should have, but the game was fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then there was a remorse, like you get him and you're super happy, you were like, oh man, like I was starting to really, like this chess game we had going on, I was really enjoying it.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's almost like at the end of in the first blood when [SPEAKER_01]: when when T's Dale and and you know Rambo basically dies and everything and he's like Man, he even says in the book, he's like, I was I love that kid and you're like, oh, you've been trying to kill him for three days but like, oh, but you've gotten this this weird relationship now and then and then you go and this like It sounds weird, but this almost like hangover for a few days like the games over there's like this remorse that like [SPEAKER_03]: All right, well, I miss it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, they messed up from the book to the movie and that Brandon, he was so unlikable as the sheriff, that if they actually kind of made this kind of like weird friction, like the way the book was done, I don't think that they have time to develop the character and the thing they do in movies is they make characters so polarizing because they realize if you show it, they don't have a long story arc.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So like little kids could watch it basically and see who the bad guy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Every movie I watch when my kids are like, is he bad?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, well, you know, and then you kind of go back and forth.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like in real life, there's no really bad bad guy and a good good guy.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like everyone's kind of on the gray scale.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I mean, you know, like such a classic, you know, anti hero movie, but if you go back and you look at like that whole genre of movie, I mean, you think about like the dirty dozen and, you know, all the Clint Eastwood, you know, different of all those movies.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that was really that like anti hero deal and it just kind of moved forward.

[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I'm kind of like amazed now that like Rambo first blood was the first action hero movie.

[SPEAKER_03]: Because in the next one, I mean, like, that's a good point.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like that's something I'm gonna have to go research a little bit because I feel like I'm not as educated as I should be on that.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, because I think about it, you know, you get stalone and you got Arnold.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, those are, I mean, they're the chances of all of it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and then Van Dam, I think fits in there.

[SPEAKER_03]: You probably don't, longer fits in there.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I'm just thinking who else would be in that Mount Rushmore.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, you could kind of call a Charles Bronson or a, you know, I mean, really a Bruce Lee is probably one of really the first, but probably based on some other situations he wouldn't be like credited with it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, but from what I understand, I think it's like what they mean by the action here is not only like the body guy, whatever, but almost like crazy, unbelievable feats of athletic prowess and strength tied into it, you know, like, you know, Clint Eastwood and Dirty Harry never did anything unbelievable, you know, and so I think when you start adding that aspect into it, like making a true, almost superhero, but an action superhero that [SPEAKER_01]: that had to be Arnold and Stallone.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess if you look at 82 that would have been Stallone.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think Arnold had any movies prior to that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Terminator is what, 83, 84.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then you got predator right after that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there's those type of movies.

[SPEAKER_01]: But certainly, I don't know if really Conan the Barbarian could be put into that aspect.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, man, that's actually a real action hero though, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Like define an action hero, like what kind of movie, like they have to be, it's got to be something with guns, it's got to be things, lots of explosions.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so there you go, first blood.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it'd be like first blood and then like maybe like a commando.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, when did you mandal come out?

[SPEAKER_01]: 85, I think.

[SPEAKER_01]: missing in a first blood part two, Rambo was in 85, yeah, I mean you had a lot of like that was the in my opinion, the peak, that was the high water mark of that genre.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's all been downhill since 1985 and I think we've, we've, we've, we've, we've got a deep water in that conversation years and years.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, we, we have, but I mean, if you think about like, um, oh, but just in general in life, I would agree.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, I can't really think of a good movie that I've seen lately that kind of fits into any of these genres where I would be like, oh, I have to go see that movie immediately, you know, where is like, you know, like the terminal list stuff came out, like like the new kind of like the prequel for the terminal list, which [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a good, I haven't watched it yet.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you haven't watched it?

[SPEAKER_03]: No.

[SPEAKER_03]: The guy that I like is the African guy, the region, yeah, rave.

[SPEAKER_03]: And like reading the books, especially where he ends up going back to Africa and kind of like works for those guys, like I forgot what your book that was.

[SPEAKER_01]: Was that a shot, maybe, I can't remember.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, those stories of like the rodisians and that in Africa and like the hunting and all that like I thought that was so good, so good like that I actually wanted them to make that movie.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, you savage some was somewhat based off of the most dangerous game the book with with generals are often rainsford and everybody.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was kind of and that's what Jack was talking about the basically he read that that book and he read first blood as a kid and told himself at that point I will eventually write a book that is Modelled off of these like it ten years old.

[SPEAKER_01]: He decided that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, he decided to be an author at that point He's like I'm good.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he knew even going into the seal teams.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like I will eventually I'll do the seal team thing And I'll eventually get out and be an author.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is what I want to do [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, yeah, it's crazy.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know, I mean, share too much, but Jack's two sons are named recent rave.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Very awesome.

[SPEAKER_03]: So.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: No.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I just watched that dark wolf.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it was good.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was actually his one son whose name Reese is severely handicapped.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why he named the character Reese because he wanted to make the character all the things that his son would never be able to do like the ultimate dude.

[SPEAKER_03]: Which I think is a dad, you're like, oh, you know, no, it's, um, you know, like having kids a special needs man, that's, you know, like we, you know, it's always something like, you know, for like, you know, cash, who's type one, like for example, Victor Hugo, Victor Hugo, one of the just guys at training, he got married on Saturday and so he went to the wedding.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was like five o'clock, no kids, which is kind of a pain in the ass when they don't much you bring kids to weddings [SPEAKER_03]: But then the problem is that we have to have specific babysitters that are used to be able to manage this.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's not like I can just hire some like 13-year-old girl from the neighborhood, even though my daughter's are 14, which I think is hilarious.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like how can they not babysitting kids?

[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, what are we doing?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we're hiring your friends.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because they're probably like, fuck this little guy.

[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, so I mean, there's always like a different element.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then all of a sudden, it's like 845 and this thing's kind of like peeling up.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I could see my wife looking at her phone and she's like, we've been gone four hours.

[SPEAKER_03]: So you know, we got to get back and they're these people.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, god damn.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it definitely adds a different element to your life that you wouldn't necessarily.

[SPEAKER_03]: If it didn't happen, you wouldn't ordinarily think about.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I thought you would appreciate that little tidbit of information, which I always thought that was a beautiful thing that he named the character after his son, like the Halterega.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, like the interesting thing about kids, and I kind of like think about, you know, here things like this is like, you know, no child asked to come into this world.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: you know like you know you get married let's say you know you have kids in your life like you make some conscious decision to bring these individuals into your life sure and like once they're there like as a parent you have a responsibility to raise these children and I always have to kind of remember that like they didn't ask to be here [SPEAKER_03]: And it's not like the proposition me for this.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, oh, well, you know, we've got everything to get like these kids.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's your responsibility as a father is an individual to shepherd them across, whatever, you know, that looks like or whatever what that works.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think so many people skirt that responsibility.

[SPEAKER_03]: And unfortunately, I don't know if they look at it that's in one.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's the biggest responsibility, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's the hopefully the things, the one of the only things [SPEAKER_01]: be the mark of who you were as a person, what are you leaving behind, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: It might be a company, it might be cool trophies, it might be all these other things, but like to leave, like living monuments and living, you know, evidence of who you were that could then how they create their life after that was heavily with the seeds that you planted and fertilize within them and, you know, figuratively and literally.

[SPEAKER_01]: Man, like is there a, you know, is there a more important task?

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't believe so.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, I feel like there's two major milestones for a man.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's funny, I just actually gave this bit of sage advice to a buddy of mine who's, [SPEAKER_03]: We're deal.

[SPEAKER_03]: Dad was super healthy, goes into COVID, gets vaccinated, gets boost, booster, ends up getting a bunch of blood clotting issues.

[SPEAKER_03]: So he's having all these clotting issues, so they put them on all these anti-clotting deal, and ended up messing up his blood sugar, so he gets to type 2 diabetes, and they're trying to manage to type 2 in this.

[SPEAKER_03]: ends up going in and they're trying to do stints and basically they take his leg.

[SPEAKER_03]: So he ends up losing a leg and so, you know, my buddy's texted me and he's like, you know, you know, they just took my dad's leg, he's probably not going to make it.

[SPEAKER_03]: And kind of like hit me up a little bit about it and I told him I'm like, there's two major, at least in my observation.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's two major things for a man, the day that one, you father a child and, you know, specifically have a son, which is different.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like I know you got sons and daughters like I do.

[SPEAKER_03]: uh...

having a daughter's one thing having a son is kind of a little bit different and i wouldn't have thought that unless i'd had one of each it's just a completely dinner at different interaction uh...

but the other one is losing your father and then realizing that no longer can you pick up the phone and call your dad and the realization that one day your son is going to be in the exact same situation while and i know both of us have probably been going through that exact [SPEAKER_01]: process in our mind within, especially in our lost pops of year and a half ago, but you know, I've spread his final spot of his ashes this past weekend or this past week when I was up in New Jersey, that's one of the places he wanted at his dad's grave, which I hadn't been to in 20 something years.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I knew, I knew he'd asked me to do that a couple different places, and you know, and I'll be honest the last year and [SPEAKER_01]: It's super hard, you know, metabolizing that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure you had to metabolize it as well, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And at first, for those who, you know, lost their dads or the families like, I'm sure you'd probably know what I mean.

[SPEAKER_01]: But like, that first the shock, and then it's the sadness.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then that's, [SPEAKER_01]: I tried to process it as much as I could, but at some point, I realized that I put up walls and tried to just protect my own sanity and emotions and kind of go through the motions in the last year.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you mix it in with work and pleasure and cool hunts and whatever, but there's always like this kind of thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to say sadness, kind of sadness, they're just kind of sits in there, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: And the realization, there's a lot of times, I realize like, you're right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't get to walk into his office and talk to him anymore.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have him come flopped down on my couch, even at the most inopportune times at work, and tell me about something that I thought was in consequential or maybe even like silly that day.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thankfully enough during those times, I realized there was one day that I wouldn't be able to do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I tried to take those times for what they were worth.

[SPEAKER_01]: But when you start realizing, like, literally for the rest of my life, that experience will never happen again.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like this year, he didn't go out of town, he's not on vacation, he's not sick in the hospital.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just never again, you know, and I know you and your dad talked a lot.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I know that just by well, the things you've told me he told you and like I'm sure there's dinner conversations.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he did such a great job like mentoring you and your intelligence level and everything like you're so worldly and like so that obviously comes at a very high price of time and so you come to the realization like I don't ever get that again like ever like I'm going to be hopefully an old man one day and what I'm living right now is just the early days of being without pops I'll go for more maybe hopefully more decades but but this is like [SPEAKER_01]: the freshest is ever going to be.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I realized over the last year I'd kind of put that away in a little box, it kind of slid under the bed, you know, figuratively, and just tried to like keep going.

[SPEAKER_01]: But then, you know, so anyway, kind of fast-forwarding, I knew one of his places he wanted, you know, four or five places he wanted his ashes spread and I've done all of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then the last one was, you know, it's dad's grave and jersey.

[SPEAKER_01]: like, it was an excellent one, New York, New Jersey.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I was driving up to do some deer hunting last week in Rochester and visit some clients on the way there.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, I'll go right through New York.

[SPEAKER_01]: I said, and then that kind of hits you like, do I want to ride this ride right now?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's, it's an obligation I had that I told him I would, would do it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But that means like, that means tomorrow I'm leaving and I'm packing up his ashes in my truck with me.

[SPEAKER_01]: While I'm going to do all these other things and I'm going to find time to go do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And...

[SPEAKER_01]: selfishly.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to be in this right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't a ride I want to ride.

[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't an experience I want tomorrow.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like some visiting with some clients on the way up and some my friend, you know, Jim Kurtz here over there and able academy and then you kind of I get out of that meeting.

[SPEAKER_01]: I get in the truck and I'm like looking at my schedule, I go, oh, I have about three hours and I got to go to Newark.

[SPEAKER_01]: And okay, I know I'm going there but the night before I was packing, [SPEAKER_01]: And I was getting his ashes, and then I was like, gosh, where was that cemetery?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I looked in his like, file of important papers, and there was a file that said, the cemetery directions, I'm like, oh my gosh, and I open it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a note.

[SPEAKER_01]: This says, Bert, and he gives me, he said, I want to be put at the right hand of my dad.

[SPEAKER_01]: And love pop.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I open it, and it's aerial views.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's pictures from the street with post-it notes of a total map to how to get this mission accomplished.

[SPEAKER_01]: and I thought about it and I was like the intent and he was always so intentional I was like the intent that he had because when did he write that map 20 years ago?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like he decided he didn't know the intent to look at your own mortality and write a note to your son realizing that he'll read that note when you're gone [SPEAKER_01]: And I opened it and just broke down.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, oh my gosh, like you sent me a pre-success so well that you knew that you had to visit this very unpleasant thought that you're writing a note to your son and this space mentally and emotionally that'd be in reading this.

[SPEAKER_01]: But just still did it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he left it in your file of important papers.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he told me one time he's like, [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm going to try to make it as easy as possible for you, logistically.

[SPEAKER_01]: And just you look at your like, oh man, you poured into me and you mentored me my whole life.

[SPEAKER_01]: And even a year and a half after, like you're still trying to help, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, that was my experience last week.

[SPEAKER_03]: Man, thank you for sharing that.

[SPEAKER_03]: But no, no, I do, I love your dad.

[SPEAKER_03]: You dad and I had special relationship, and I wish I got to hang with him more, but my favorite, [SPEAKER_03]: I have so many favorite pop stories, but like he, um, uh, I'm sad that I didn't meet him earlier in my life.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man.

[SPEAKER_01]: I got along.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's very old.

[SPEAKER_01]: He always was interested.

[SPEAKER_01]: He always liked, uh, he enjoyed that you were smart enough to get his idiosyncrasies.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he very much.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm highly observant and you get with good things.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's people that do things.

[SPEAKER_03]: They want to know people that do things.

[SPEAKER_03]: Hoping that somebody else notices that of value.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I always notice all of the small things with you to add in just the mannerisms.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, my favorite interaction was probably the last one that I had with him was when he came over and he told me [SPEAKER_03]: And he had this dream and that we were in a bar and we were having drinks and we basically put our backs and we basically beat everybody up And he's telling me that this whole story that I'm in is dream and and then he like kind of like looks at me pauses and just like walks away And so I like and then I forgot who it was a couple of the guys came over like what was pops talking to you about [SPEAKER_03]: And I told him the story and they were, I was like, you know, figured he tells everybody this story.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, pop sort of told you that he got to that you were in his dream and the guy's got to a bar fight in the cleared house.

[SPEAKER_03]: They're like, no, never heard this one.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, but no, he, you know, the hats in this.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I think what you're so interesting, and I like, like, your dad had you.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right, like you were his only son and he poured everything into you.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was I'm one of six.

[SPEAKER_03]: So my dad was married.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, before my mom had three kids and then got divorced.

[SPEAKER_03]: Met my mom and, you know, had three more.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so I feel like my dad, you know, obviously, you know, like the [SPEAKER_03]: you know like having multiple children kind of investing this and living your life and doing all these things whereas I feel like you know the fact that you and your dad were such good friends because not only did you work together but like dude you were his son and that's an interesting piece of like feeling like I was you know one of my dad's many children and I was a young [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I remember at a young age when they told me I was a mistake and that nobody wanted me.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I was always like, well, my no exactly where I'm here.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it's funny now, my brother, my brother Ed and I talked about like someone like, you know, my dad shortcomings or things that were surprised.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like one of the ones was that, you know, my brother is, you know, probably one of the top criminal defense attorneys in California, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: His firm is probably the best one in California.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he's absolutely killer.

[SPEAKER_03]: and he did the exact same job with that my dad did and they were never in practice and he kind of always thought that my dad would be like, hey, let's link up our wagons and my dad never did.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so we were kind of talking about that and he goes, how come, [SPEAKER_03]: He goes, how come Dad was so quick to push us out?

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, why was Dad so quick to not want to like, because I think what he sent me something where it was, I think it was Andrew Tate, who I'm not a huge lover of, if I any, but Andrew Tate and his brother had like, there was a clip that was like, hey, if I'm gonna make him, gonna make it with my brother, that we're gonna link our wagons and as a family, we're gonna do this.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it was kind of an interesting clip, my brother sent me any ghost man.

[SPEAKER_03]: How come, uh, [SPEAKER_03]: How come, like, mom and dad didn't do that more?

[SPEAKER_03]: How come dad, like, he goes, I was a, you know, criminal defense attorney, and I, you know, I get out of the DA, I get in a private practice, he goes, I was kind of always hoping my dad would call me and say, hey, like you're ready.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's go.

[SPEAKER_03]: You and I were going to take on the world, and he goes, dad never did that, and he goes, and he never really did that for you, and he never did it for them, and, you know, kind of realizing, you know, [SPEAKER_03]: that, you know, was it like a, you know, you know, how he was raised, we're like, you know, you take your sons and you push him out and you, you know, hopefully that they can figure the fuck out, you know, and I don't know.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of interesting, and I think, uh, [SPEAKER_03]: that was something that I always wanted and my brother's and I have been shitty with that as well.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, my brother's your lawyer, my brother's insurance and then I do what I do.

[SPEAKER_03]: But there was never a point where it was like, hey, this is what our family business is.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're all gonna link our wagons and the one thing I've told you this many times, the greatest thing you can do is honor not only your family, your father and this and every time I go to Sornix and I stand up there and I've been very fortunate to speak at Sornix on multiple occasions for summer strong, [SPEAKER_03]: I still reference a talk that I gave on authenticity.

[SPEAKER_03]: I used that all the time.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like I thought about that talk for years, and I'm so happy you hit me up last minute because I wanted to give that.

[SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, and you've heard me say it, I'm like, dude, the fact that you stand here in the house at your father belt and have extended this business and done something far past whatever his vision was.

[SPEAKER_03]: is by far the greatest blessing you could offer your family.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm so proud to be able to call you a friend and support sort ofics and do everything we do for the fact that not only is it the best equipment, I joke that my grandkids will be listening on this shit.

[SPEAKER_03]: Back there, like that equipment has an inherent soul and ethos that I support and that I'm so proud to be a part of.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm just glad that I got a chance to [SPEAKER_03]: to meet pops and play a small part in it and I got a box for me, I think was probably a couple of weeks ago, a bunch of his clothes and I put him on and went out and basically just went out hung out through this stuff on and I kept it and I put it in the closet and all in the garage and I'll bust it out for when it gets cold or for the hunting stuff.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I appreciate the fact that you sent me something that I'll have a van and [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I, I would have, I only got to see him as an older man, um, I would have, looking at those pictures and like talking to different people, I would have loved to have met pops when I was in my early 20s and using his 40s gone out in my food and raised health.

[SPEAKER_01]: You would have, he would have poured so much into you because you were definitely, [SPEAKER_01]: He poured into everyone, but he poured into those most, who he thought had the capacity of understanding it and taking it and doing something with it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like he would have poured into you so heavily because he would have seen you as like, oh, this one has the potential, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And he did that with me, and he did that with a few of other people.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he took that his mentorship and the investment of time that he had extremely seriously.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I've seen him, you know, right, workouts for people, [SPEAKER_01]: and then two or three weeks later he walks out in the gym and they're doing something different and he'll ask and he'll say give me that workout and he'll take it and he'll just tear it up and he'll throw it in the trash and they're like, what?

[SPEAKER_01]: He goes, [SPEAKER_01]: If you ask me to write your programming, you need to do my programming.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you don't, and they go, why?

[SPEAKER_01]: I was doing my own thing, you goes right, and you're going to fail, and I don't want to be associated with your failure.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't want people thinking that I wrote your bullshit training, because you're doing stupid shit.

[SPEAKER_01]: So give it back.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's my name.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't want to be associated with people that aren't succeeding, and I'm investing in you, and you choosing not to [SPEAKER_01]: And I just like, wow.

[SPEAKER_01]: And people would be, they'd be in tears.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're dad took my workout, I'm like, he told you, you know, he told you.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I remember when I showed up and there was all the animals.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we were going around, we were picking them up by the horns.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I could see you, dad, over there watching, oh, man.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I remember we started like picking up like, we got to like 174, we shouldn't get in the big, big jealous.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then we picked up the 174, he came.

[SPEAKER_03]: Running over and he was like so excited.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, you know, because basically he was so funny He's like, ah, he's fucking little weak mother fuckers.

[SPEAKER_03]: They're up this thing Bromiter when we picked it up I left there and I did not own animals and then I came home and this is kind of pre-market place I jumped on Craigslist and I put in animals and there was a posting for a lady who was having a state sale in an animal popped up [SPEAKER_03]: So I called her and she's like, oh yeah, we live on a ranch down at San Antonio.

[SPEAKER_03]: My husband was a blacksmith and I have a bunch of his stuff and we're going to have a estate sale.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I drove down and ended up picking up two of his animals and so I went into the shop and I looked at him and I went over and I kicked him over and I went to go pick him up.

[SPEAKER_03]: And she started laughing.

[SPEAKER_03]: She's like my husband and his buddies who were blacksmiths would have drinks And that was one of their games is who could pick up the envelopes and she's like haven't seen anybody do that And a long time and she's like that's how different blacksmiths would test their strength Yeah, it was a deal So I ended up buying these two envelopes and I haven't been in the shop [SPEAKER_03]: and periodically I'll break them out and, you know, it's a lot easier with chalk and with them without, but that was, I see them as I walk in, I think, a pops.

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