Dario Amodei joins John Collison to talk about Anthropic's growth to ~$5 billion in ARR, how AI models show capitalistic impulses, predictions for an agentic future, the economics of model businesses, and the 19th-century concept of vitalism.

Full episode transcript on Substack: https://cheekypint.substack.com/p/a-cheeky-pint-with-anthropic-ceo

Timestamps

(00:00) Intro

(00:50) Working with your sibling

(01:43) Building Anthropic with 7 cofounders

(02:52) ~$5 billion in ARR and vertical applications of products

(07:18) Developing a platform-first company

(10:08) Working with the DoD

(11:11) Proving skeptics wrong about revenue projections

(13:13) Capitalistic impulses of AI models

(15:43) AI market structure and players

(16:56) AI models as standalone P&Ls

(20:48) The data wall and styles of learning

(22:20) AI talent wars

(26:04) Pitching Anthropic’s API business to investors

(27:49) Cloud providers vs. AI labs

(29:05) AI customization and Claude for enterprise

(33:01) Dwarkesh’s take on limitations

(36:12) 19th-century notion of vitalism

(37:27) AI in medicine, customer service, and taxes

(40:59) How to solve for hallucinations

(42:41) The double-standard for AI mistakes

(44:14) Evolving from researcher to CEO

(46:59) Designing AGI-pilled products

(47:57) AI-native UIs

(50:09) Model progress and building products

(52:22) Open-source models

(54:43) Keeping Anthropic AGI-pilled

(57:11) AI advancements vs. safety regulations

(01:02:04) How Dario uses AI