[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome everyone to another episode of PositivelyDrek.

[SPEAKER_00]: My name is Barry, with me as always is the infamous Dan Gunther, whose infamy goes very, very deep in his ability to quote Star Trek, and also find Star Trek quotes [SPEAKER_00]: Immediately, art at least close to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Dan and I were on a bit of a road trip recently, and there was another podcast we're listening to that actually has a Picard quote in it that I've been listening to this podcast for years.

[SPEAKER_00]: Dan had been listening to the podcast for thirty minutes, and he was like, oh, that's from that episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I almost pulled over.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was wild.

[SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't believe it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Dan, you are an amazing human being.

[SPEAKER_02]: On the list of available superpowers, it is not the most prestigious, but I guess I'm proud of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it'll come in handy either in super heroism or super villainy, but I don't know, it could be fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: If there's ever a Star Trek pub quiz, you're winning.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to tut my horn or anything, but the last two to win.

[SPEAKER_02]: the last Star Trek Las Vegas convention I went to there were you know little pop up trivia quizzes everywhere and you know you just just shout out the answer and they toss you a prize and there were a few times where you know I shout out an answer I get a prize you know kind of hold back let someone else answer shout out an answer get another prize and I'm like [SPEAKER_02]: They'd ask questions and no one would be answering.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I would know the answers.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, a couple of friends with me and my wife was there as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just, like, lead over it once for the answer to them so that they could get something.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was just, you know, I gave lots of people lots of time to answer, but if they weren't answering, I'd be like, okay, Nikki, when that jacket, the answer is the star gaser, or whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't know the star game.

[SPEAKER_00]: I suppose you're just being hypothetical here.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: That would be the minstrel boy.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's the minstrel boy or whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we have a very delightful little little show laid out here.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're into some new Star Trek territory and it's nice.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's nice to know that like now is the week start moving forward.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to have a couple episodes of Star Trek to watch here and there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the first two I have to say are nothing like the other.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's basically the best way of putting it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there will be spoilers in this discussion.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you have not seen a strange new world's hegemony part two or wedding bell blues stop listening this instant and pop on your your was a paramount plus now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, there we are.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there we are.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, I I I [SPEAKER_00]: Full disclosure, we obviously as podcasters got to watch the screeners.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I saw.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm like, wait, is it grave?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not grave.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then if I do watch the newest Star Trek, it's with you, Dan.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't actually have a subscription anything right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, if you haven't seen those two episodes, we really recommend you watching them.

[SPEAKER_00]: They were really good.

[SPEAKER_00]: And nothing like the other.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're definitely, I would say, a shift without the clutch in terms of tone and pacing.

[SPEAKER_00]: At the same time, [SPEAKER_00]: I'm kind of here for it.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I mean, it's kind of almost a return to form for strange new worlds, because I remember that feeling, especially in the back half of season two, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: You go from those old scientists, crossover, and then you go into the under the cloak of war, Joseph and Banga and the Klingons and really dark.

[SPEAKER_02]: heavy episode and then from there subspace our subspace rhapsody right you have the musical episode and then the finale which is again really kind of grim dark so yeah it was week to week kind of like popping the clutch and lurch it yeah like oh my god what is happening here and now yeah these first two episodes of season three both dropping July seventeenth all in one night [SPEAKER_02]: That's the first thing I'm going to say is be prepared for a sudden downshift from warp nine to full impulse.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to fly out of your chair if you're not prepared.

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the first piece of all this is we have what I would consider to be, and again, I'm going to lay the cards on the table right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: a cliffhanger resolution that I would say lands quite well.

[SPEAKER_00]: I really enjoyed this one.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Star Trek has had its ups and downs with its season part one, part two cliffhangers in the past.

[SPEAKER_00]: But this one I think does a pretty good job of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think [SPEAKER_00]: What we want one to do is maybe get your birds-eye view of just to gem any part too.

[SPEAKER_00]: What are some things that you're excited to delve into in our conversation right now?

[SPEAKER_00]: Just give us a little bit of a menu.

[SPEAKER_00]: What's on the list for you, Dan?

[SPEAKER_02]: for sure well of course yeah like you say resolving that cliffhanger right uh the cliffhanger now by by miles the longest cliffhanger in Star Trek history thanks to a bunch of you know intersecting circumstances that kind of all came together to to push out season three as far as it was so you know seeing that resolved getting that resolution [SPEAKER_02]: I guess for me, this episode, the big thing is the A, B, and C plots all kind of interestingly balanced throughout it, which I'm sure we'll get into.

[SPEAKER_02]: But for me, Star Trek has always had a bad track record when it comes to cliffhanger resolutions.

[SPEAKER_02]: And almost to a one part one of a season ending cliffhanger is always really, really good.

[SPEAKER_02]: And part two, while still maybe one of the better episodes is just never seems to quite measure up to part one.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was really curious going into this one how I would feel because if you watch my live show that we do on our on my YouTube channel talking about the first part of this cliffhanger two years ago now, I was not impressed with part one.

[SPEAKER_02]: I did not enjoy part one on a number of levels.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it was already kind of a weird one coming into it for me.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it was kind of [SPEAKER_02]: You know, are they gonna, um, I don't know what the phrase would be?

[SPEAKER_02]: I guess not stick the landing because I didn't appreciate the setup very much.

[SPEAKER_02]: Is it going to elevate the material?

[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, we'll get into it, but I think it does.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think one of the other pieces of this and dear listener or viewer, I just can't watch the trailers.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I know Dan you have to because it's part of your line of work as a podcaster.

[SPEAKER_00]: But as a co-host, I actually don't have to.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's what actually made me really enjoy this episode even more because for me, the stakes were actually really, really high.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's kind of where I'm going to get in with all of this is watching this without having seen the previews.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think this, I mean, [SPEAKER_00]: There's like the new Jurassic Park that's come out and I watched one Preview and I'm like, oh, they're gonna do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and they're gonna do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then the people I know who've seen it already were basically like, y'all the things that happened in the trailer happen in the movie and that's it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, oh, wow, that's unremarkable.

[SPEAKER_00]: But again, [SPEAKER_00]: having not watched the trailers to this, you know, getting dropped right into the action, I think was really great.

[SPEAKER_00]: I actually had resisted rewatching a lot of strange new worlds and the cliffhanger itself, so maybe some of the the sourness around the way it ended.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm kind of okay with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I really feel like the actors caught their stride really fast even after such a long break, you know, everybody, everybody fell right back into their positions pretty well.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, the way I'm going to kind of talk about this is as a person who never saw any of the previews, any of the hype and just came in totally fresh.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that really gave me a lot to like moving forward.

[SPEAKER_00]: But maybe I don't know, maybe I'm just too positive in that regard.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, honestly, I will I will cop to a bit of jealousy that [SPEAKER_02]: you were able to watch this without seeing the trailers because as much as you know full honesty even if I weren't in the business of making videos about the stuff for doing podcasts I would absolutely gobble up all the trailers as soon as they dropped minute one I'm just that kind of a fan right so [SPEAKER_02]: But I do appreciate like I it would have been great to watch this without knowing that certain characters survived or you know this that and the other there's there's two big characters in this one that I would have been very worried about if I hadn't seen trailers and they hadn't released posters showing these characters and all that sort of stuff right so yeah a little bit jealous there if you [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we watch this together, which I gain, we'll just keep beating this horse.

[SPEAKER_00]: Watch Star Trek of Friends, folks.

[SPEAKER_00]: Please, just watch Star Trek of Friends, folks.

[SPEAKER_00]: Please, just watch Star Trek of Friends, folks.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you're in a position to do so, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: Health wise, you mean even via video chat, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, do what you can.

[SPEAKER_00]: But anyways, let's, let's, let's drop into this, you know, when I was watching this, I was also trying not to watch your eyes because I can tell if I'm right or wrong about something by looking at you when I say stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: So right off the bat, we're, we're dropped into the action.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've got the enterprise fighting the Gorn, and we have a very desperate captain on our hands.

[SPEAKER_00]: One thing that I'm just going to start with off the bat, and I know I put this at a different part of the script we have here, is just that bridge banter was Gorn May.

[SPEAKER_00]: I loved it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I loved he was going from character to character, getting ideas, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: still still commanding the ship, but definitely drawing back in and I think that was a really good way to kind of reintroduce the way each character thinks, how they're acting and how they're going.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it was a good way to just very quickly reacquaint oneself.

[SPEAKER_00]: How would you as what's, what did you really like about that just opening start?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I love that as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've always loved.

[SPEAKER_02]: First of all, Pike's manner on the bridge and like even going way back to discovery season two where he first highlights each member of the crew, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: He's just got that way of of bringing the crew in and we see that unfold display here.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love that dynamic.

[SPEAKER_02]: uh, soliciting suggestions from the crew and uh, you know, weighing them all in his head and that's it.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's the, that's the one we'll do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, like, let's be honest, cinematic level visuals and all of that in this, in this whole opening scene.

[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I will say the one of the things, not the only thing, but one of the things that left a bad taste in my mouth last season was this manufactured cliffhanger.

[SPEAKER_02]: where they've been ordered to withdraw and they make it look like Pike has this extreme indecision and they're, what are your orders captain?

[SPEAKER_02]: What are your orders as it seems on his face and then they fade to black to be continued?

[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, just as I kind of thought when they come back from that, it's like, [SPEAKER_02]: No, he snaps into action right away.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's no paralyzed.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's no indecision here.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's going to do what needs to be done.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that just kind of bugged me a little bit.

[SPEAKER_02]: But immediately, I was relieved that like, yeah, no, they're, they're not going to play with some kind of silly introduction of this weird character trait at the eleventh hour that doesn't make sense for the character.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they definitely [SPEAKER_00]: walked away from from that aspect of the last episode pretty fast which I was happy about overall one thing that I have to say that I like about the action sequences just you know kind of in terms of the space battle itself is it definitely took [SPEAKER_00]: the best elements of JJ trek with the faster pacing a lot of cool sound effects i've always loved the discovery error for its sound effects just always loved it they still were able to kind of hold on to that balance of terror e you know per card on the bridge just go on the defiant style of maybe slightly slower pace right i mean we're still kind of rockham sockham robots in terms [SPEAKER_00]: of the way they fight each other and in reality that probably wouldn't necessarily be the case but that that kind of slower, slower, fast-paced pacing coupled with really, really good everybody doing their jobs stuff that you and I both have talked about how much we like.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it really married itself well.

[SPEAKER_00]: So let's, I'm going to kind of maybe just [SPEAKER_00]: bounce from stone to stone here, because while this is going on, we then swing over.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was the landing party next that we wound up seeing in the next piece of this.

[SPEAKER_00]: So first of all, seeing this organic style ship takes me to two different directions.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think of the Yujan Vong in the Star Wars leg legends.

[SPEAKER_00]: They call it, I think, [SPEAKER_00]: It's not canon anymore or something silly like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, formerly expanded universe.

[SPEAKER_02]: Now legends, I guess.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Glad we don't do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, but you know, it's reminiscent of these like organic kind of semi, semi, sentient ships, but also I really kind of got that like cosmic horror feel from movie that some of you may have seen called Fire in the Sky.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's about the abduction of a [SPEAKER_00]: fellow in Utah by the name of Travis Walton.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he winds up on the ship.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, the story in the movie is far different from the story he talks about, but the story in the movie is very, you know, like, you know, cosmic horror of people, you know, decaying inside of these ships in these weird-looking cocoons and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And a very similar feel.

[SPEAKER_00]: I really have to say, the gorn are reimagined, wouldn't you say?

[SPEAKER_02]: very much so yeah I so full disclosure I watched this a couple times the first time I watched it I think I wasn't in the right head space and I was kind of annoyed with it just from the broader picture goren thing which [SPEAKER_02]: I might talk about in kind of my closing thoughts a little bit.

[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I guess I'm waiting for that bit where strange new worlds finally reconciles what we've seen of the goring here with what we see later in TOS and we haven't gotten that yet.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know that we ever will.

[SPEAKER_02]: But the second time I watched it, I kind of just had to put all that aside and [SPEAKER_02]: I found this much more enjoyable when I did that.

[SPEAKER_02]: So let that be a lesson to all of you out there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just enjoy this for what it is without that aspect of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And there's discussions to be had around that aspect of it, I think.

[SPEAKER_02]: But as far as this episode goes and that's presentation of it, that's not what this is about.

[SPEAKER_02]: So don't go in expecting [SPEAKER_02]: If you're still listening or watching right now, having not seen the episode as always, I question your life choices.

[SPEAKER_02]: But if you have chosen to do that, just a bit of a warning on that front.

[SPEAKER_02]: Don't expect this to answer all of your questions.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you have any nagging ones like I do about the whole arena versus strange new worlds gore, it doesn't go there.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's fair.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think the other thing that I think really stood out watching your reaction was when you continuously were screaming at the screen about not running at a giant lizard man with a ranged weapon, which I do actually agree with.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, so yeah, this Gorn is attacking and lawns shooting at it and, uh, you know, runs up within striking range of it to hit it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I guess I, that seemed dumb and gets bad it out of the way.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then, or Tagus does the same while firing her phaser running up right at it and she gets run through, basically, by this thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the whole time, the first time I watched it too, I was screaming at the television, stop, why are you charging it?

[SPEAKER_02]: What are you doing?

[SPEAKER_02]: So, that was a little, I don't know, they were like, we need this to happen, so let's have them be real dumb for a minute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I mean, the action choices definitely are different in some of those cases when they were fighting your right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's played for the TV, it's played for the story.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I do have to say, like, a truly alien environment, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: The inside of the ship really felt alien.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that there were, you know, inside of this specific subplot, I feel like they were two really good character, um, deep dives that took place, or character analysis, or more time for development.

[SPEAKER_00]: It starts with Laon and the Gorn.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like some boxes on her character really got ticked.

[SPEAKER_00]: in a very good way.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think she was able to kind of get some some resolution overall.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like more will eventually come of this and I almost [SPEAKER_00]: Wonder if something's going to happen between her and Betel, but that again, I'm going to leave for later.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, how do you feel about Lawn and her memories?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, this is something that, you know, this is weighed on her character for the past two seasons.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we've seen that dark side of Lawn.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it comes into play here.

[SPEAKER_02]: It informs her choices against the Gorn and ultimately I think feeds into them getting away and defeating the Gorn here.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm excited by the lifting of that because that's one thing by the end of the episode.

[SPEAKER_02]: They kind of drive that point home that through the actions of the other part of the story, it seems that the Gorn are going away and they won't be back anytime soon anyway.

[SPEAKER_02]: and you can see the effect that has on our character and it's a it's a brightening very obviously of the character and and I'm very much looking forward to seeing how that plays out and and of course [SPEAKER_02]: As you alluded to at the start, we've seen a few episodes ahead, so this is something that is going to be explored.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's beautiful to see the origin, just the beginnings of that at the end of this episode.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you ever see Christina Chong speaking in an interview or something like that, she could not be further from the character of law and [SPEAKER_02]: as a human being.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you remember the first season episode, The Alicia in Kingdom, where she plays the princess with her little dog, that's actually much closer to her personality, and it's bright and happy, and it's called acting folks, like she's an incredible actor, and I'm excited to see her explore more facets of the law and character.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, again, throwing the ball a little further down down the road.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do want to come back to talking about this cast as an ensemble.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's just a hell of a lot of talent here.

[SPEAKER_00]: But let's again, I'm going to jump again before we go back to this and then the will will return to all three of our subplots again.

[SPEAKER_00]: So while that's going on, [SPEAKER_00]: people running with ranged weapons were also watching to we were watching a chapel and spock try to treat captain but tell and they're basically running every algorithm on how they could potentially help the captain and it's pretty much coming up all the time as the odds are ero the odds are ero and then finally the odds are low and I can't [SPEAKER_00]: help, but feel like again, why are we always going on odds?

[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes we have to try, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, that's going to come up a little bit later, too.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's some good pep talks that work in this sense, but I'm going to say it's never telling me the odds.

[SPEAKER_00]: And in this respect, [SPEAKER_00]: I was almost as concerned about losing the tell in this episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was thinking one of the two in the tell was one of my possibilities, where I'm like, I think they're going to kill her.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if they did, I mean, [SPEAKER_00]: That would be sad, but remember, she's only, she'd only be star trek dead folks.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I mean, I do feel like it was a pretty impossible situation.

[SPEAKER_00]: I really felt like that Chapel and Spock were kind of facing a bit of a Kobyashi Maru.

[SPEAKER_00]: How would you?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, definitely.

[SPEAKER_02]: The whole odds thing was one of the things that was starting to great on me in the episode and then the story took a turn that I'm very glad it did because, you know, they're saying like odds of fatality, one hundred percent, odds of fatality, one hundred percent every time they [SPEAKER_02]: they did a simulation of some kind.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then finally, they using Una's magic augment blood.

[SPEAKER_02]: And my brain went back to like, McCoy injecting a triple with, and it started to get dark to the switch.

[SPEAKER_02]: Not the best memory for this to dredge up, but anyway, with that aid, the odds of fatality were like, eighty, eighty, four percent or something like, there was a fourteen percent chance.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, eighty, six percent or whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: of there's fourteen percent chance of recovery if they did this so they're like well it's better than nothing let's do it and meanwhile at the same time on the bridge they're enacting a plan that has like a one in a thousand shot of working and I'm like okay [SPEAKER_02]: I would be okay with one of these things working out, but not both at this point.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you're rolling the dice so much here that it makes no sense.

[SPEAKER_02]: So when this story spock stops them at the last second and says, no, these odds are way too low.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have another idea.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's do this instead.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was kind of like, oh, thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, we don't need fifteen stories of [SPEAKER_02]: There's a one in a thousand shot.

[SPEAKER_02]: We have only five percent chance, and it all works out every time.

[SPEAKER_02]: At that point, it's like this doesn't make any sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, Mike was literally wearing plot armor.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, literally.

[SPEAKER_00]: His crew were all covered by his plot armor.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess also though, facing terrible odds.

[SPEAKER_00]: in this respect right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: To some degree, I feel like this is again we talked about this that we're all pike, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: You can be as lucky as you want, Chris.

[SPEAKER_00]: because we all know how this ends, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like to some aspect, we might be able to even see the defeating of the odds as the idea of like, well, the house is gonna win eventually and we know it will.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I mean, one thing though is with characters like Artegas and Betel, we know nothing of what they were up to in the TOS era, meaning they could die.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's where again I was looking at Patel as, you know, if she was to have died, what that would do with Pike's character.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think keeping her alive is going to affect him and a lot of his choices, you know, because when you're dealing with somebody with say something like a terminal illness, you're always going to be [SPEAKER_00]: considering they're well-being and that's something that I feel like in this you can you could tell that that by the end of this episode that was Pike's real concern right he was commanding the bridge he was doing what he needed to do but my goodness was he relieved at the end of this that said [SPEAKER_00]: I also find that the the rapport I guess between Spock and Chapel was quite compelling as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: I really enjoyed their exchange with one another here.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's something that, you know, I think a lot of us have been wondering about where things are going with them.

[SPEAKER_02]: We saw them start a relationship last season after Spock into Prings.

[SPEAKER_02]: uh...

betrothal or engagement or whatever you want to call at that point had kind of uh...

gone a little south and then they broke up right famously in the subspace rhapsody episode so you know she's going to be going on this archaeological internship i guess at some point going to be leaving for a while so you know they're working closely together they're gonna have some things to talk about and [SPEAKER_02]: And like this part of the episode really felt real to me.

[SPEAKER_02]: The two people talking about a relationship that, and they're both on very different pages.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think one is maybe emotionally immature in the case of Spock.

[SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't have the experience with this aspect of things that maybe a lot of humans do.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I really felt that chapel was trying to tell him, like, don't pin your hopes on me, please.

[SPEAKER_02]: And don't expect we need to spend some time apart.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Spock is saying, you think that'll be good for us.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she said, yes, but not the way you think.

[SPEAKER_02]: Not us as a thing, but good for each of us.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Trying to drive that point home, and I don't know, we'll see in the next episode if he's taken that point or not.

[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, it was definitely something that felt very real.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it was very, like I think at various points in our lives, especially when we're young and immature, as kind of spark is in this arena, we all kind of fall into that kind of stuff, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And we've all been [SPEAKER_02]: most of us probably on both sides of that conversation a little bit here and there, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would agree, you know, basically everything you've said, you've managed to tie this up nicely.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the one last piece that I would bring to this is, despite the fact that the two of them are sort of low key in different places in terms of, you know, what it means for their relationship.

[SPEAKER_00]: Moving forward.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm quite impressed with the fact that they are still able to complete their Starfleet based tasks which again shows a lot of what what I think what I think chapel is actually getting at right like we're good together, but we're not good [SPEAKER_00]: together, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or maybe we're not as good together, or maybe we need some time apart to see how good we are together, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But when it comes to actually doing the job, maybe that's sometimes what brings people together, when it might not necessarily be good, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: There can be people who work well together, but sometimes they don't live well together, and that can be [SPEAKER_00]: That can be a thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I feel like there was a lot of depth in this piece and I love that how, you know, the the subplot that takes place in a single room around a mostly unconscious patient ends up having probably the most depth of all three subplots, which I think is important right there.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've got a mixture of action.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've got a mixture of sort of like that horror kind of [SPEAKER_00]: Escape from the monster cave kind of feel and then we've got this Again kind of something of a no-win scenario on two separate contexts.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've got a patient who's going to die pretty much and we've got a relationship that's about to come apart [SPEAKER_00]: So moving back, we've got Pike not really interested in saying no to fighting off the Gorn.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's not interested in it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think what this kind of reminds me of again is two thousand nine trek when Kirk is angry at Spock for saying they're going to go back to the Lorentzian system and gather.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[SPEAKER_00]: There is an opportunity that Pike sees that maybe his superiors and even some subordinates don't see.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think sometimes you've got to go with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not gut.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's something more.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's an instinct that Pike I think has in this case that again defies the odds.

[SPEAKER_00]: that that, you know, we could do this, we could play it safe.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe sometimes it's good to kind of rush in because you might actually manage to do the thing you need to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if you actually know what it is you're rushing for, you might actually be able to do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you just gotta go ahead with it, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you die, as I guess, as problems are over anyway, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And again, this is sort of the story of the enterprise, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Kind of going in headlong.

[SPEAKER_00]: and actually making it through, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I always think back to Warf when they're fighting at ero ero one and he's like, maybe today is a good day to die, prepare for ramming speed.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's out of options, but he still has the option and he takes the option and it's only through the enterprises interference that he winds up okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: In this case, I feel like Pike is able to push forward a game and [SPEAKER_00]: after literally ramming the ship earlier, he's able to, I guess, speak some truths about, you know, playing it safe against a ruthless enemy like this isn't always the best choice.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you've got to be just as ruthless.

[SPEAKER_00]: I hope that made sense.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think Pike played this really well to because he gets painted into a corner where there's literally no choice as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: when they discover that the invasion fleet is heading towards Federation space now.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, I want to rescue our crew.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to engage this ship, but I can't just let this go on answered.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can't let them catch the Federation without warning, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And he gives chase and he's trying to communicate.

[SPEAKER_02]: But like every angle he takes is cut off.

[SPEAKER_02]: They can't transmit a message.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're jamming the frequencies.

[SPEAKER_02]: They can't catch up to them.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're going too fast.

[SPEAKER_02]: They can't engage the fleet.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're going to be destroyed immediately.

[SPEAKER_02]: He plays that really well sitting in his chair as he goes through every option and is kind of burying his head in his hands because he can't figure this one out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Until, like you said, he realizes the solar activity thing and comes up with that one in a thousand chance, but we'll just turn it off.

[SPEAKER_02]: Turn it off before it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was really good.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I loved that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I thought that drama was played out well, but what he's wrestling with and what he's dealing with.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've got a cicada-like lizard people, I guess, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that a fair way of looking at them of like this, if you've not come back into another cycle, they kind of just go back home and hibernate again?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, very, very cicada-like, yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_02]: I guess this is a good place to maybe have this conversation a little bit, because somebody posed this question to me [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't have a great answer to it, and it was basically if you had this alien race as it's been presented in Star Trek Strange New Worlds from the beginning through to now, and you called them something other than the Gorn.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, would it make any difference up to this point?

[SPEAKER_02]: And maybe in the future, I don't know, but up to this point, would it make any difference?

[SPEAKER_02]: And no, I don't think it would.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't know, they don't necessarily have to be the Gorn to have been telling the stories they've been telling so far.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is where I kind of give modern Star Trek a lot of credit when they do things like this because usually it's for a very good reason and again, like maybe stick a pin in that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe there is a very good reason that will become apparent sometime in the future still.

[SPEAKER_02]: But like even, you know, one of the most controversial ones that people I was pointed out from early on, making Michael Burnham the foster sister of [SPEAKER_02]: Spock.

[SPEAKER_02]: Why would you do that?

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, there was some great story stuff that came out of that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I even seasoned one of discovery that revelation that Sarahck was saving a spot at the Vulcan Science Academy for Spock.

[SPEAKER_02]: So he told Burnham that she couldn't go, that she was rejected because they told him only one of your children can get in.

[SPEAKER_02]: Only one of your almost Vulcans, as they said.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so the reason he didn't talk to Spock for all those years was Abe, because Sarah's not the greatest father.

[SPEAKER_02]: But also, be he felt tremendous guilt for what he had done to burn him because of that.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, that added layers that made it an interesting story.

[SPEAKER_02]: It didn't change canon.

[SPEAKER_02]: It just gave a new layer that made it more interesting.

[SPEAKER_02]: and I kind of kept waiting for that with the gorn a little bit and it's never really happened at least not in my opinion and listeners you might have a different opinion please share it with me I would love to hear what you think about this but [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's been no to me compelling reason to have made this species the Gorn.

[SPEAKER_02]: Other than, like, ooh, we'll learn a lot more about the Gorn.

[SPEAKER_02]: Am I way off base there?

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: No.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess for me, the clingsons have gone through three iterative changes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the first one was explained.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think quite enjoyably an enterprise.

[SPEAKER_02]: I agree.

[SPEAKER_02]: I liked that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know a lot of people don't, but I do have that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and then it opens up the, it opens up kind of, I think, to some degree how Ash Tyler came to be as well in Discovery.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really have a problem with the switch out, with the change of the Gorn.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I would imagine they're gonna do something, and this is total speculation, but I would imagine they're gonna do something around this hibernation sequence that's probably gonna do some kind of change to the Gorn.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or maybe there's a Gorn that doesn't hibernate, and they act and behave and dress differently.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the best, you know, shot in the dark, I can give that one.

[SPEAKER_00]: But what I will say, I like about the Gorn is their mystique.

[SPEAKER_00]: I loved the Borg.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love how the Borg were built as these kind of menace characters and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And when you lose that by getting to know them more, and I'm not trying to knock Voyager for its Borg related storytelling, [SPEAKER_00]: I do feel like they became less of a existential fear and more just another one of the different kinds of alien races out there.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I like how the Gorn are these kind of personalityless ruthless menaces that are brutal and tenacious.

[SPEAKER_00]: They won't tire out.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's kind of where the board came from originally as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, if anything, actually, I would say that this version of the Gorn reminds me of Halo's The Covenant.

[SPEAKER_00]: in a lot of ways.

[SPEAKER_00]: Very kind of similar thrally groups who fight and they kind of come at you and they do have this again kind of persistent sort of approach.

[SPEAKER_00]: At least when you play it on legendary, when you play it on easy, they run away when you shoot at them.

[SPEAKER_02]: on that level as well like I would absolutely agree like I really like the Gorn as shown in strange new worlds like I don't want that to I really do it's just it we learn in TOS for example and again there could be some explanation yet to come but in TOS we learn that they only attack when they they're family like their children are being threatened yeah [SPEAKER_02]: And it just, it hasn't quite squared with this, they attack because of environmental factors and all of that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then, like I said, they may square that.

[SPEAKER_02]: But like, if this was just another alien race that wasn't tied to that, so far, I would be like, I love these guys.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, they're amazing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so yeah, my problem is definitely not with the cool factor or the what they do in strange new worlds themselves.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just that connection, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, my best guess would be is there must be another subset of Gordon that's only attack when their babies are are, you know, being threatened.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then this, this group is maybe slightly different, but I guess we'll just have to find out.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll find out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Also, Ortega's found out what happens when you rush a gorn.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, big old gut wound.

[SPEAKER_00]: And also, I think our face was still kind of being digested.

[SPEAKER_02]: They were all still getting digested for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: They still have, like, lost half her hand and it was a colludo.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: But anyways, I really feel like this second piece.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we learn a lot about Lawn, we get a lot of resolution, I think, to her story.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think also we get another aspect of Ortega's abilities and skills and, again, tenacity.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think maybe that's the moral of this whole, this whole show's story is that tenacity really does shine through.

[SPEAKER_00]: The fact that she is bleeding out, and she is the only one who can fly them out of there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And again, with the stakes as high as they were watching the blood hitting the console, I was almost certain, I would say, and using probability.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, E five percent, like, all men, they're going to kill our tagus, and she's going to die a mother truck and hero.

[SPEAKER_00]: But she's still here on nonetheless.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: How did you feel about that from the other end of things?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, watching her.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I knowing that she wasn't going to die was a little not disappointing because I don't want her to die.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's my absolute favorite character.

[SPEAKER_02]: Depending on who's on the screen at the time, I don't want to paint myself into a corner.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I do love Ortegas.

[SPEAKER_02]: That whole, by the way, I'm glad you called that out.

[SPEAKER_02]: The blood filling the [SPEAKER_02]: various sections of the console as kind of like almost a dwindling health indicator video game or something like that was so visually so well done and just got wrenching to watch so you know even though I knew she wasn't going to die I also figured she wasn't going to come out of this unscathed because that was brutal [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, there's a little bit of undercutting of the drama there, just because of the foreign origin stuff, but it was still so well done.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you can almost lose yourself in the episode enough, almost to not forget, but be swept up in the narrative to be concerned about her, you know?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was very well done, and God, Melissa Navia, just acting her heart out.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love her.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, and she, she plays, she plays that that flagger-old tough doggy hero.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just the very heroic kind of kind of aspect, you know, the fact that everyone was basically hanging on her ability to keep the lights on while she was flying them out of there was very, very [SPEAKER_00]: very important to the building of Ortega's character.

[SPEAKER_00]: And again, I think this is something that maybe, you know, is going to stay with Ortega's as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think she was very proud of herself by the end of this as well, which again, a fantastic, a fantastic end to that subplot I have to say.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I recently listened to an interview with her and the number of times since among the lotus heaters came out last season that she's had to sign her photos.

[SPEAKER_02]: I fly the ship, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just her thing now.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love that she got to say that in this moment too after saving everybody.

[SPEAKER_00]: I fly the ship.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we have this idea that Battelle is no longer going to be just Battelle anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: That in fact, thanks to the donated cells from Yuna, she's going to basically reabsorb the Gorn.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think for implications there?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or how do you think this is going to play out?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we only can see so far even with our screeners, you know, what is this going to do?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think for the tells character?

[SPEAKER_00]: Any guesses, any thoughts?

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm excited to have her character more entwined with the ongoing story rather than the occasional drop in, whether it's to, you know, have, have posto with Pike in his quarters or [SPEAKER_02]: to prosecute Una for her crimes.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's gonna be, I feel like it'll be interesting to have this ongoing story.

[SPEAKER_02]: And of course, there's the Pikes are main character, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: So there will be service to his character and his story through her.

[SPEAKER_02]: But she's also a really interesting character in her own right.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm curious to see how she deals with this as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: Apart from just how it affects Pikes, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So Luna giving her, you know, basically part of her life force, especially considering their history.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that also kind of really ties up elements between the two of them as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this was the episode where we had the focus on hope as well, which I really appreciated that that conversation because I think there can be points in time when you feel like there's pretty much nothing left.

[SPEAKER_00]: when the odds truly are against you.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, there's a negative way of saying this.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a movie that takes place in East Germany, called the Lives of Others.

[SPEAKER_00]: And their conversation or their quote is, hope always dies last.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's not really the positively track way of looking at things.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love the idea of focus on hope.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I do think that's true is if you can focus on what you can hope for, focus on the hopes that you have, you're going to end up being in a a better place even if you don't get exactly what you're looking for.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think in this regard to what would they had to do with Battelle.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that was not the ideal circumstance, right, to have her actually [SPEAKER_00]: kind of combine to some degree or create sort of a symbiosis reabsorbing the gorn because it will have it's knock on effects.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure, but that's where hope comes from, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Hope doesn't necessarily mean you get exactly what you want.

[SPEAKER_00]: You manage to get what is important, which is life.

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: So let's, uh, let's finish off Scotty and Pelia Scotty is this poor uncertain not quite sure of himself.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's not quite Scotty yet, is he?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and as it should be, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: I like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're seeing something that I think you can do with strange new worlds that's a lot of fun, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to do a little bit of a metaphor here.

[SPEAKER_02]: Star Trek Enterprise, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: When it first launched, I had such high hopes for it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I enjoy the series, but it very quickly became just another Star Trek, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: You've got the transporter, you've got this stuff, and you kind of have the opportunity to say, like, well, this is before everything.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's see them build that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's see them build up.

[SPEAKER_02]: But very quickly, they're, you know, using the transporter, they're doing all these things, you know, instead of saying shields were saying whole polarity and stuff, but it's pretty much the same, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Kind of a squandered opportunity, I think, to kind of build things up.

[SPEAKER_02]: Strange new worlds is taking a lot of to us characters and we're seeing them kind of moving into position.

[SPEAKER_02]: But all of them have work to do to become those characters and we're seeing that work be put in, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, Uhura in season one wasn't sure she wanted to be in Starfleet.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was kind of jaded about the whole thing and we're seeing that growth there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Kirk who we've seen is not a captain yet.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's a headstrong lieutenant who's, you know, he's getting there, but he's not the Kirk that we know yet.

[SPEAKER_02]: And now Scotty, I think the greatest example of this so far where [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's an engineering genius, but he doesn't keep good notes.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's very unsure of himself.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's got some self-esteem issues.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's dealing with, of course, the trauma of losing his previous crew and the part that he thinks he played in that and the guilt that he has associated with that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love that we're going to see this character grow into the confident engineer that we see in TOS, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: I can't be the only one that's so excited to see that journey.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, who I think is most excited to see Scottie reach his full potential as Pelia.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think she truly sees, you know, given her age and her time, you know, around she can spot [SPEAKER_00]: someone with their potential and she sees them.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think where she is really doing well here is being that kind of that guide that Scotty can use, that mentor, someone who can kind of drop him in the deep end.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I get a little bit of a Mr.

Miyagi vibe from her that like, you know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Learning karate is learning karate is learning karate.

[SPEAKER_00]: It comes from here, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: That you ultimately get good at something.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Scotty already has it.

[SPEAKER_00]: He just needs to believe it himself.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's a really cool way to bring him in.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I even think about Batman year one, the Frank Miller comic book where you see Batman falling, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: not quite doing exactly what he's supposed to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's not making all the choices that you'd see him making.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I'm fully with you that we get a raw, uncooked form of Scotty at this point.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he's played very, very well.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love his shoulders.

[SPEAKER_00]: They've noticed that the actors' shoulders are always kind of up.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, but when he's kind of in his element, he's actually doing it.

[SPEAKER_00]: You see those shoulders drop, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And he starts to kind of, but then he might have the shell a bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: It comes back again in certain moments.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I appreciate that.

[SPEAKER_00]: First I was wondering if they like tailored his his uniform to fit differently.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, Oh, no, no.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's really nervous.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm wondering if if there might actually be some real shoulder pain from acting that [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's incredible to see he's doing such a great job with this character.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I love the back and forth between him and Pelia and her encouragement of him and her knowing which buttons to push to get him to do the things, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: When she comes running and saying, oh, Scottie, Scottie, that where we're under attack, the green corn space, we're all gonna die, we're all gonna die.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he's been unable to get this device working.

[SPEAKER_02]: He snaps it, puts it in.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's ready, it's ready, it's ready.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she just kind of like, and like, it's a kind of cute moment, but you can see that like he's kind of hurt by it too.

[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, and storms off after that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, maybe it was good for the mission for her to do that, but it might have been putting him giving him a little bit too much too soon kind of thing, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm curious to see where it goes for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, development is is gonna be big I think especially with him and I think there's gonna be some I don't know this characters who aren't in TOS and you've only got to think that like you know There's gonna we're all gonna be dealing with some loss at the end of all of this and I think I think that's ultimately what's gonna [SPEAKER_00]: trigger Scotty's full full development.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think, you know, those are the three subplots more or less.

[SPEAKER_00]: What other bits are you sort of enticed by with this new season of strange new worlds?

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I guess, yeah, so the way I set up the discussions for these episodes, just kind of a bring out your dad round at the end, like a little bit, like what else did we talk about that's kind of cool on for this one with a new season.

[SPEAKER_02]: We get new opening credits, you know, largely the same, but with some new little additions, they've moved some things around, changed some environments.

[SPEAKER_02]: We get that clinging on ship lurking.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the enterprise flies by and then it pops up and chases it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love that they launch the enterprise launches a shuttle at one point and it ips off while the enterprise works away.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's that shot at Starbase one at the end where we used to see the dome and enterprise in the distance, but this time there's a bunch of other Federation Starships classes that we've not seen before that are kind of in the foreground.

[SPEAKER_02]: I, you know, being the the tech nerd.

[SPEAKER_02]: I am, I'm like, oh, I want to pause those and drop some schematics and learn more about those ships.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love the ship designs just love them.

[SPEAKER_00]: They, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: They thrill me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I love, I love that little cling on ship.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, pop and up as well being like, I bet you they think they're being so sneaky.

[SPEAKER_00]: What I have to say really really gets me and maybe it's just the time away and then coming back to this series is the crew are in like as an ensemble they're in the pocket.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I really have to say, these guys feel like a crew, their banter is good, their conversation is good, their ability to bounce off of each other, different crew members talking with each other.

[SPEAKER_00]: You really get to feel all of their different personalities.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so this really made me like, when the credits rolled at the end of this between you and me, I was very satisfied with how the story [SPEAKER_00]: is continuing on.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we talked last episode about the fact that we already know that this is going to end at a certain point.

[SPEAKER_00]: We still have a lot of seasons left.

[SPEAKER_00]: We saw a lot of stories to be told.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think we're at good hands with regard to the writers and the actors who are involved in the producers.

[SPEAKER_02]: Here here, I would second all of that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, my second time especially watching this and just kind of letting the story happen and, you know, not paying attention maybe to the larger things and just focusing on the story, I really appreciated this.

[SPEAKER_02]: I thought this was a wonderful resolution to this two-parter.

[SPEAKER_02]: And in fact, I think maybe for the first time in Star Trek history for me, part two of a season ending cliffhanger, season beginning resolution, blows part one out of the water.

[SPEAKER_00]: So agreed.

[SPEAKER_02]: As always, positively trek is brought to you by its Patreon supporters, including Joyce Miran, Brandi Jackala, Christina DeClirch's Alagi, John Guppi, Out of Memory, Patrick Carlin, and Ricky Long.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And now, back to the show.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, well, you know what, we ran long.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm being a goober talking about that one.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was a really strong episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: So let's move on now to wedding bell blues.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna just gonna shift the clutch again.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're bunch of grinding sounds.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, the last time on Star Trek Strange in the world, we really do hammer home that whole third subplot of Spock and Chapel.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I have to say, this drops in [SPEAKER_00]: Again, with a whole big thing here, and I think it's funny you'd mentioned the camera framing at the point of transport when Chapel arrives back.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do we see?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think we're seeing it through Spock size, aren't we?

[SPEAKER_02]: mm-hmm yeah so uh we we jump forward three months i think it's important to say so chapel of course has been doing this three month internship and is now returning so we've just jumped right over that and yeah she's returning to the ship i i i do love that we we get a shot of chapel materializing on the transporter pad and spark [SPEAKER_02]: Christine.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, Hi, Spock.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the camera pulls back.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we kind of vaguely remember that Scotty said two beaming on board.

[SPEAKER_02]: But we didn't see him beaming.

[SPEAKER_02]: Dr.

Roger Corby is on the transporter pad next to Chapel.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we get to meet strange new worlds interpretation of this character now who we met.

[SPEAKER_02]: sort of spoiler alert in Star Trek the original series.

[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, so those of you who haven't watched TOS, maybe some minor spoilers for what's going to happen in strange new worlds, we were introduced to him in TOS as Chapel's long lost fiance.

[SPEAKER_02]: So those of us watching this in the know, know where this is going, and our heart breaks for Spock.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, definitely.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think, again, we have really good rapport between Lawn and Spock as they're learning how to dance.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's very, very clear to me that Christine Chong is a dancer.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's a professional musician and dancer.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there you go.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know I could, Ethan Peck is good.

[SPEAKER_00]: But there's a talent there.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it, again, very data's day.

[SPEAKER_00]: Kind of feel to it where, you know, Gates McFadden is a professional dancer in Brent Spiner as a good actor.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say pretty much the same thing, just no weird smile this time.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, thankfully.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we all know how boiler feels about Spock's weird smile, so we don't need that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, definite chemistry.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think between Spock and Lawn here as well, which is interesting to see as we learn that Spock is [SPEAKER_02]: It hasn't really heated Christine's words, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: He even says the same thing that Christine did in the last episode where she says, you're not thinking of doing some grand romantic gesture, like waiting for me.

[SPEAKER_02]: Don't do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then in this episode, three months later, Spock says to Lawn, learning to dance could be seen as a grand romantic gesture, could it not?

[SPEAKER_02]: And Lawn's like, [SPEAKER_02]: I thought she said not to do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, well, I'm gonna.

[SPEAKER_02]: He has that immature in the ways of relationships thing that he's planted all out in his head.

[SPEAKER_02]: He knows exactly how it's going to go.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he's going to sweep her off her feet and win her back.

[SPEAKER_02]: And all of us even before she shows up with Corby or going, oh, Spock.

[SPEAKER_02]: No.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think again, you know, looking back to the cage, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Spock smiled.

[SPEAKER_00]: Spock was a little more emotive in that episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think we do see Spock's human side being a lot more prevalent.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think his experiences moving forward [SPEAKER_00]: are probably going to be what turned him more into the to the Vulcan side of things probably again a speculation but at the same time you know you can't help but but see he's acting very much like you would say like a teenage boy right um not to get to [SPEAKER_00]: to begin to it, but this kind of reminds me of James Joyce's Arabic, where a twelve-year-old boy is obsessed with a, I think, fifteen or sixteen-year-old girl.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's through the course of this short story that he realizes everything he's felt about her, every idea he and notion he has about her is based purely on his own perception.

[SPEAKER_00]: The end of the story is him realizing that she probably doesn't even know he exists.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now it's not to the same intensity [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that is kind of the cricket bat to the face that he gets when he sees Corby in the transporter.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_02]: And his even after kind of noticing him his kind of dismissal of him and not realizing what's going on in front of him.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and of course, we're also seeing this through the eyes of Scotty and Lawn, who are there as well, and they're both kind of going like, oh, and Spock's like, this is a gift for you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Corby's like, and Chapples, like, and Spock's just hearts and his eyes and not even clocking any of this until [SPEAKER_02]: Like you said, cricket back to the head, he's forced to confront what's happening.

[SPEAKER_02]: And when she spells out, he's my date for this event that's coming up.

[SPEAKER_00]: So brutal.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would see three months as a little tight there, their chapel, but you know what, these things happen.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we could get that story too.

[SPEAKER_02]: Why?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: The good news.

[SPEAKER_00]: Good news.

[SPEAKER_00]: There is an omnipotent being ready to step in.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, Rees Darby is here from Florida, the kung fu.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Rees Dobby is here.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: You do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so sorry.

[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody from New Zealand.

[SPEAKER_02]: I probably shouldn't have done that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I, you know.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, what is this guy?

[SPEAKER_00]: He's there as sort of like a low-key-esque, not low-key, but low-key-esque character who's here to just stir things up and I don't even know like [SPEAKER_00]: Part of me's like, what's the motivation, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Ultimately, where is this other than, you know, someone who just wants to stir the pot, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Who wants to, we do find out, but when I first started, I'm like, what's this guy up to?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what is he after?

[SPEAKER_00]: Why is he doing this?

[SPEAKER_00]: What's the angle to pick, you know, Spock's arc specifically?

[SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think though Spock was the most at the start at least Spock was the most impressionable kind of lining this up the cricket bat to the face he gets a good wap and suddenly there he is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Suddenly he comes to his senses.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, that was great moment, first of all.

[SPEAKER_02]: Definitely get there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I really, so first of all, just the joy of seeing Rhys Darby in this, in one of my favorite comedic actors in my favorite universe.

[SPEAKER_02]: And just, kid on Christmas morning, honestly, I love Rhys Darby.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've loved [SPEAKER_02]: Everything I've seen him in, if you haven't seen our flag means death, by the way, you absolutely need to watch that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Where he plays an historical, actual pirate, not historically accurate stories, but still so good.

[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, to have him in Star Trek playing this role.

[SPEAKER_02]: there's a lot of Star Trek fans out there kind of probably yelling right now saying like we know who this guy's supposed to be and you haven't mentioned it yet uh is he I don't know so the squire of Gothos yes from Star Trek the original series introduced us to Trilaine who is very obviously uh uh [SPEAKER_02]: a proto queue.

[SPEAKER_02]: And by when I say that, I mean concept wise.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like this was, I'm sure when Roddenberry was writing that part of encounter at far point, he was looking back to this and saying, aha, I will tweak this concept a little bit and create queue.

[SPEAKER_02]: So is this train, is this somebody else?

[SPEAKER_02]: I would say, [SPEAKER_02]: He's very much meant to be Trilaine-esque and they kind of pull the Borgin Enterprise trick where he just never says his name.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, when Spock hears Trilaine in TOS, he's not like, oh yeah, I'm at you.

[SPEAKER_02]: The other thing is, and there's something later on that ties it to Q.

[SPEAKER_02]: that we'll get to, but one thing we've learned with Q's recent stuff is don't think of it so linearly, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: They kind of live outside of time.

[SPEAKER_02]: So if this is Trilaine, or if he's related to the Q, or both, this is obviously a Trilaine after the events of the Squire of Gothos, which is still in the future from our perspective.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, [SPEAKER_02]: That's the conversation I've been having in my head for the last few days.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then just try to explain the fourth dimension everyone and I think his head exploded.

[SPEAKER_02]: The board queens like, yeah, you think so three dimensionally.

[SPEAKER_02]: How small you've become right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think I think again, you know, what we have.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the ability to get what you want, and I'm going to kind of get into the philosophy of this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Spock could have even when after he came to a senses, just go along with this, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And he would have got exactly what he wanted.

[SPEAKER_00]: But he very much chose not to anything.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a juxtaposition to his initial blindness to the clarity he has afterward.

[SPEAKER_00]: After that moment, there's like two sides of Spock in this that I think is really great where, yeah, he is still a kid, he is still kind of figuring this out.

[SPEAKER_00]: But he actively tries to turn this back around to where [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Chapel is no longer a love interest of his.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I have to say, character development wise, this really shows something deep within Spock's character that it isn't about getting what you want.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is actually about, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: getting things fairly, getting things from people in, you know, open in free ways, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Chapel would have gone along with everything.

[SPEAKER_00]: Had she stayed under the spell of of ReStarbies character with that said that wouldn't really be the real her and Spock's refusal to go along with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, note my complete lack of surprise that Spock would act in that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: But again, this is a major juxtaposition to the blindness that he had at the start of this.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_02]: And again, a lot of what we've been saying about Spock with regards to the storyline is his immaturity.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think by the end of this, he has gained scads of maturity about this issue and really kind of come around and [SPEAKER_02]: in a very Vulcan way mastered the subject almost right where he realizes what's true and what isn't and what needs to be done because yeah, the who among us would not be tempted by something placed in our lap that we've always wanted all you have to do is lie to yourself.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think we actually do that every day like that's you know what I mean like that's what it is to be human sometimes and [SPEAKER_02]: Spock is unwilling to do that, and is unwilling to have the people in his life in thrall to his whims, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Whereas I think a lot of us would be tempted to just go along with that, and convince ourselves that it's reality.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is like, for me, it almost comes down to the old, would you rather have flatter invisibility?

[SPEAKER_00]: And the psychological thing is if you pick flight, you're a good person, and if you pick a disability, you're a bad person.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, well, it's not really that simple.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I had some conversations with some friends and some other people about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it is interesting hearing people justify why they would want to be invisible.

[SPEAKER_00]: because it is all about deception.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's all about getting what you want, maybe unfairly, to some degree.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's speaking of being kind of unfair and whimsical.

[SPEAKER_00]: This character of Restarbi's kind of gives me a bit of a feel like he's going to be kind of like the great gazoo of this series moving forward that we probably will see him again in certain iterations and contexts kind of bothering the cast.

[SPEAKER_00]: Shall we say?

[SPEAKER_02]: I do wonder, and there's one very specific thing that I might just be way off about, but a while back they did release all the titles for all ten episodes.

[SPEAKER_02]: And at one point when he's, you know, when Spock has discovered who he is and what he's doing, at one point he snaps his fingers and Spock appears inside a glass.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, oh, I've got my own little Vulcan terrarium.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the second last episode of the season is called terrarium.

[SPEAKER_02]: Is that a little hint?

[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: That might be very tenuous links there.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I can count on one hand of a number of times I've heard the word terrarium in the last week.

[SPEAKER_02]: And all of them have to do with the strange new worlds, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tiny subplot.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've also got Ortega's brother showing us.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Going to be doing a documentary on how we're going to see this Federation Centennial.

[SPEAKER_00]: But what captures the the Isla more is his almost immediate chemistry with Ohura.

[SPEAKER_00]: Which again, I found kind of amusing because [SPEAKER_00]: There you're seeing two people who are willingly engaged, right, in what they're doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the authenticity of it is a lot more acceptable than what Spock is currently, you know, obviously rejecting, but could have not.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, no, I feel like a game where we're putting some pins up here to get with a bowling ball, maybe a little bit later on.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I admire the chemistry between these two, they're young and attractive and bouncing off each other much to the annoyance of Ortega's, which is fun to see as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, that was cute.

[SPEAKER_02]: I like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's fun to see characters just kind of living a little bit, you know?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Also the sibling boxing match was fun to watch too.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Great hook.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and also kind of related to this, I guess we do see our tagus is grappling with the events of the last episode.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's got pretty severe PTSD.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I would do.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_02]: So the relationship between O'Hura and Beto is kind of played for laughs a little bit.

[SPEAKER_02]: but it's grading on our on our tagus and kind of like you think jokingly so but like she's very upset by everything and that's not helping we don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think the last kind of big piece of this story because it is pretty straightforward right is now Spock needs to convince everyone that they're living in kind of a fake reality and it is kind of funny watching the other characters and actors um [SPEAKER_00]: kind of blindly going along with the sudden shifts of reality, you know, watching, watching Corby get turned into a dog and everyone just looking at that being like, oh, yep, anyways.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, he's a dog now.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.

[SPEAKER_02]: I need to stop doing, but I apologize to our new New Zealander listeners.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's all right.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's all right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, [SPEAKER_00]: I hope imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone in New Zealand who is listening, just know that in your heart.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's from a complete place of love of restarting.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll put a bigger foot on my mouth.

[SPEAKER_00]: What's it like being upside down all the time?

[SPEAKER_02]: How do you not fall off?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you Australian?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's probably another one they really like.

[SPEAKER_00]: We get, we get our U-American soul.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, overseas, are you American?

[SPEAKER_02]: No.

[SPEAKER_00]: I always liked when I was living in London, they would say, are you from America?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, no, I'm Canadian.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, you're from Canadian.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, no, not that either.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're from the colonies.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's fine.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Also there was a guy who had a job interview with who's convinced we all drive underground because of the permit frost.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a whole other story.

[SPEAKER_00]: But anyways, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Wouldn't that prevent us, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: You know what?

[SPEAKER_00]: The logic was flawed to begin with.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, just take that as it will.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have to, the other piece of this that I have to say, I really, really appreciate it about this episode in general, is the costuming.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Starfleet Wedding.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: Chapples Wedding Dress.

[SPEAKER_00]: Very cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Very sort of peacocky in a very literal sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have to say, and then the, the different guests who who showed up, all of the different costumes, I have to say, Kirby's made of honor, outfit with the big poofy boat.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll even restart be, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Very trillane style of the outfit, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, if trillane and Willy Wonka, we're rolled into one into a little Impish New Zealand comedian.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have to say, just watching all the different costuming and stuff like that, it really did take me back to the TOS era of the crazy stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I have to say, the Starfleet Dress uniform of that era is also just [SPEAKER_00]: I just, oh, it's handsome would be the word I would use.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, seeing or take us in that dress uniform.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just so smart like I just love the way that looks and and of course with the nods to the TOS dress uniforms as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's a just [SPEAKER_00]: if I had a million dollars, I'd buy one of those.

[SPEAKER_02]: One of the things I appreciated about this episode as well is the continuing tradition of Star Trek to really present romantic relationships and how they go in a really bizarre science fictiony way.

[SPEAKER_02]: So like, if you look at the history of romantic relationships in Star Trek, we have Trip into Paul [SPEAKER_02]: who started out because trips clone who only lived for a few days told to Paul that trip was in love with her.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think in deep space nine we have an alternate future version of Odo telling Kira that Odo's in love with her and Warfin Troy with like Warfin jumping to different quantum realities and finding out he's married to Troy in one so starts dating her when he gets back [SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, I think the only Star Trek relationship of any kind of long term that just started with two people noticing each other in thinking they were cool and getting together or orphaned acts, but beyond that, it's still history though.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, beyond that, it's all science fiction weirdness, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: So we get that again here with Chapel and Spock and Corby, this kind of [SPEAKER_02]: love triangle thing where, you know, the outside science fiction influence comes and mucks things about and you have to resolve it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I would argue though you're right about war and jedzia, it goes, it falls into the same thing with Ezri.

[SPEAKER_00]: So one, one other piece here is as Spock starts getting everyone out of [SPEAKER_00]: out of their trance for lack of a better term.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have a very interesting arrival, and first I didn't recognize the voice, but very soon realizing that the illustrious John Delancy has [SPEAKER_02]: dropped in in a as a glowing snowball throwing another wrench into this what the heck is trailing you whatever right like it's John Delancy [SPEAKER_02]: They picked him for a reason.

[SPEAKER_02]: Is it just the cute factor?

[SPEAKER_02]: Are they establishing that trillane?

[SPEAKER_02]: Is a cue if this guy is trillane?

[SPEAKER_02]: Is he cues son that we saw in Star Trek Voyager?

[SPEAKER_02]: Again, think non-linearly, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: One thing I will say, and I think this is to the credit.

[SPEAKER_00]: of the writers is especially the sense that this isn't a mystery box.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're beyond the J.J.

[SPEAKER_00]: verse now.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're beyond the J.J.

[SPEAKER_00]: Abrams and Star Wars and all this, where they set up all these, whoa, what's happening?

[SPEAKER_00]: And then nothing gets resolved, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I do feel like this is going to key into something moving forward.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I do honestly think it is simply what you're saying, that we have the queue as non-linear, they can [SPEAKER_00]: appear, however they want to appear, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Q showed up with a Mariatchi band once, so I mean, he can really do whatever he wants.

[SPEAKER_00]: So showing up as a little ball of light, eh, fine.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's totally, totally a thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just love the fact now that Restarby can call John Delancy Dad.

[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the nonlinear thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yeah, Q died at the end of Picard season two and then showed up at the end of Picard season three and and Jack Crusher says, I thought you died.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you think so linearly.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're just like your father or whatever he says, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're telling us, like, no, they're like the profits of Bayshore, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: They exist outside of time.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's all just a big, wibbly wobbly, tiny, whiny thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you mean you can even think of the the cephalopods in a rival, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: The next one is in death sequence.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: That they knew that that person was that that that individual is going to die here.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's speaking of just absolutely great film.

[SPEAKER_00]: Great science fiction, great cinema.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, not not don't think linearly.

[SPEAKER_00]: We need to we need to get outside of this idea of linear time.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess they're jarringly different episodes.

[SPEAKER_00]: that aren't necessarily jarring in hindsight because I feel like you and I are able to have very different conversations and this is all in one episode of positively track.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we've managed to talk about these.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think pretty, pretty fluidly, but I will say the end of this episode really hits me the best and that's WAM.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: There they go.

[SPEAKER_00]: It fits the vibe I think of of strange new worlds quite a bit for whatever reason.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, Oh, wow, this actually this hits and maybe it was subspace rhapsody that kind of got me into this idea.

[SPEAKER_00]: But this is what I'm going to say about strange new worlds kind of as a as a closing thought.

[SPEAKER_00]: The cast of strange new world is the rent of Starfleet.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love this because my very first thought when I saw this in the notes that we'd put together that you added here is that the cast of Star Trek Discovery specifically Anthony Rapp must be pissed.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no much love to you Anthony Rapp.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not trying to say this in a bad way.

[SPEAKER_00]: You ladies, he was in red.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well yeah, he was one of the original.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was the OG.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess, okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, I only mean that in so far as like, I imagine that like that cast would have loved to do something like this, especially somebody like Anthony Rapp and like us.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I absolutely agree with you.

[SPEAKER_02]: This cast, they are the rent of Starfleet, even though a member of the cast of rent is in a different show, which is, that's amazing.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, it flows, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Discovery has the most, or sorry, strangely, world has the most continuity to discovery.

[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm not disagreeing with you at all.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just thought that was hilarious.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I forgot that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Please don't hate me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I met you at the night of diversity and we talked about your trip to Iceland and your dog.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love dogs.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love Iceland and I love Anthony Rapp.

[SPEAKER_02]: So dang it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I wish I was there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is lovely.

[SPEAKER_00]: Lovely pictures.

[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_02]: This cast is like so talented musically.

[SPEAKER_02]: First of all, like Christina Chong is a singer like she has a music career going on.

[SPEAKER_02]: Celia rose gooding.

[SPEAKER_02]: They couldn't have cast a better.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's amazing singing voice.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Rebecca Romaine holds her own and I will die on that hill.

[SPEAKER_02]: She holds her own.

[SPEAKER_02]: I will say, and I say this with all of the love in the world.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anson Mount singing in subspace rhapsody.

[SPEAKER_02]: Watch him sing and keep in your mind if you've seen Dr.

Horrible sing along blog.

[SPEAKER_02]: Keep in mind Captain Hammer played by him.

[SPEAKER_02]: played by Nathan Philly and and yeah there are moments where I'm like oh carpet asked me to find the difference between these two pictures the same picture yeah there is that there is a bit of Nathan Philly and in that isn't there haven't little bit yeah like it nice callback fellow at Antonio [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I absolutely agree with you.

[SPEAKER_02]: This this cast musically is Wonderland and just watching Star Trek and having watched this bananas episode and then hearing Jude a bug like what that was happening But I mean these classical music really we danced to class I mean it would be like right now if we ended this off by playing I don't know [SPEAKER_00]: Chopin.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: I do have to say this modern Star Trek.

[SPEAKER_02]: I am loving that there's a little bit more of a budget to kind of bring in some of that stuff like, and as much as I loved the Mozart and classical music concerts of the next generation, honestly, as a young man, that was my exposure to that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it was like, oh, this is really good and really interesting and something worth studying.

[SPEAKER_02]: The fact that, you know, we have WAM wake me up before you go go here in strange new worlds.

[SPEAKER_02]: The fact that we had David Bowie's space auditing in discovery, like, I'm digging it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love the more quote unquote modern slash, you know, classical music, because they would say in Star Trek Beyond, right, in the Star Trek universe.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a great, it gives it a nice continuity between us and them, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, uh, breakers, the reason why I made it to grade six Royal Conservatory Trombone.

[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: Which isn't, I mean, the highest grade or anything like that, but uh, it's up there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So these are the first two episodes of Strange New Worlds.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, my, [SPEAKER_00]: take on on what we're going to be seeing moving forward given these two episodes is they're going to play some really straight episodes they're going to play some really kind of fun and whimsical episodes and maybe even kind of blend the two but I think the episodic nature of strange new worlds lends itself to having this kind of storytelling I think we're discovery maybe [SPEAKER_00]: wasn't always as good at the beginning was because it was very, it was caught in that time frame of like the expanse and game of thrones and those kinds of shows and I feel like it was painted a little bit by that.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was trying to kind of triangulate two thousand nine track with game of thrones.

[SPEAKER_00]: together in a lot of ways, which lent itself to a seriousness that just couldn't really be sustained, especially given the cast that they had.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, obviously, as the series went on, they liberated themselves from that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But season one and two, and I think you and I should do a rewatch, definitely suffered from that a little bit, whereas season one and two of strange new worlds has been lining up [SPEAKER_00]: this kind of episodic nature that we're seeing in the first two episodes of season three.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I have to say, I'm here for it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm really excited.

[SPEAKER_00]: Ten episodes, at least they were more.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm not going to look the gift horse on the mouth.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm happy to get what we get because so far it's been all killer no filler.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, definitely.

[SPEAKER_02]: I really amazing start to the season, both of these episodes in very different ways to which is part for the course for strange new worlds.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we're going to see that going forward.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's it's it's serious whimsical serious whimsical.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that's giving anything away.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can tell by the titles of the episodes to come, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Last little bring out your dead thing for this episode though that I forgot to mention we have an adhesion bartender like the three armed like Erics from the animated series.

[SPEAKER_02]: Some of the effects used to do that maybe a little unconvincing a couple times I was like I'm pretty sure that's just somebody behind her.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's okay, it was really fun to see.

[SPEAKER_02]: The other thing, which I forgot to mention on here though, speaking of discovery, during the wedding slash centennial scene, full on discovery-style cross-field class starship in amongst the ships orbiting star base one there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Beautiful beautiful to see.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad that like even though discovery was hush-hush and and all of that is classified that class of ship That still exists.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's still some out there.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that was really cool to see perhaps the USS Crossfield herself right because we had the the Glenn and the discovery in Star Trek discovery But there's others out there apparently longer shortness cells.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember [SPEAKER_02]: looked pretty long to me.

[SPEAKER_02]: It looked like just the straight up, non-thirty second century version of discovery.

[SPEAKER_00]: No floating missiles.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, no.

[SPEAKER_02]: That would be, that would be tough to explain.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that would be about there a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I guess if you want more commentary like this, I mean, we're going to maybe have a couple little discussions here on our Facebook group that you can join.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can support us on Patreon if you want.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is this is definitely a passion project and something that [SPEAKER_00]: fuels a lot of positivity between Dan and me and I hope you get that same level of positivity too and I think that in terms of the nature of strange new worlds itself I think it's something to watch with friends enjoy and [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no better way to stay positive than to delve into this new season of Star Trek Strange New World.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll say with that, stay positive, enjoy yourself and wake me up before you go go.

[SPEAKER_02]: Possitively Trek is produced and edited by me, Dan Gunther, and co-produced by Barry DeFord on Treaty Eight Territory, the home of the Beaver, Cree, Dene, and Mati people, whose histories, languages, and cultures we respect.

[SPEAKER_02]: We acknowledge the many first nations, Mati, and Inuit, who have lived in and cared for these lands for generations.

[SPEAKER_01]: See you.