On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

I poured so much into myself and so many people have poured so much into me that like now it's like I have to share all of the knowledge and experience and the access that I have to be able to give other people access and opportunity.

Hey, lady, have you ever felt like the world just doesn't get you?

Well, we do.

Welcome to Cultivating her Space, the podcast dedicated to uplifting and empowering women like you.

We're your hosts, Doctor Dominique Brussard and educator and psychologists.

And Terry Lomax, a techie and transformational speaker.

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Now, let's get into this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

It's doctor dom here from the Cultivating her Space podcast.

Are you currently a resident of the state of California and contemplating starting your therapy journey?

Well, if so, please reach out to me at doctor Dominique Brusard dot com.

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I look forward to hearing from.

You lady today.

We have a legend on the podcast.

Okay, honestly, she barely needs an introduction, but it will be wild not to share just a glimpse of her brilliance before we dive in.

Misty Copeland is a principal dancer with the American Ballet Theater, and in twenty fifteen, she made history as the first black woman to be promoted to that position in the company's seventy five year history.

She's also a New York Times bestselling author with powerful titles like Life and Motion, Ballerina, Body, Black Ballerinas, The Wind at My Back, and of course, the beloved picture books Bunheads and Firebird.

In twenty twenty two, she launched the Misty Copeland Foundation and its signature program be Bold, dedicated to bring you more diversity, equity, and inclusion to dance, especially ballet.

There is so much more that we could say about Misty but we want you to hear it in her words.

So, Misty Copeland, welcome to cultivating her space.

We're so honored to have you.

Thank you.

I'm so thrilled to be here with both of you.

Oh my gosh.

We are definitely looking forward to this conversation, and so we will start with our quote of the day.

And Misty, this quote will sound very familiar to you because these are your words.

I'll always be committed to opening doors, creating space, and making ballet a place where everyone belongs.

Now I'm gonna say that and repeat that one more time for the folks in the back to make sure that they heard it.

I'll always be committed to opening doors, creating space, and making ballet a place where everyone belongs.

So, Misty, when you hear your words reflected back to you, tell us what comes up for you when you hear those words.

I don't know.

Prince used to say these things to me all the time, like you're a vessel.

We are a vessel for delivering messages and music and art or whatever that may be.

And and so I feel like when I hear you know my own words, it's like they're not my words.

You know, these are like the efforts and the work and the words of so many who have come before us, and that we stand on the shoulders of And you know, so much of what I'm doing to me is just a reflection of the support that I've had throughout my career and all all of the incredible especially black women, who have shown me what it is, you know, to show up and you know, to have patience, to believe, to have hope, to have resilience.

And so I think of all of that when I hear when I hear those words like yes, they they came out of me.

But I again, I feel like I'm a vessel, uh, you know, for all the all the people who filled who filled me up, that I can you know, give to the next generation.

That is such a beautiful perspective.

And mister you've inspired millions around the globe.

But for those that are just discovering your brilliance or learning about this next phase in your life, what would you say is like one part of your story that you hope they never overlook?

You know, I think I think going back to like my roots, that people don't just kind of see the success and see, you know, what I've achieved and where I'm at today, but the path that I've walked and where I've come from, you know, you know, not coming from a family that was rooted in ballet or the arts at all, you know, having started late in this field in like an untraditional way, and again like just going back to like community, the only reason that I'm here is because of community and someone that saw something in me and gave me an opportunity.

And that's why I continue to do the work that I'm doing because I know the benefits of having that, and so that's what I hope that people will will remember, like my legacy.

Like when I look back on my career, it's like, yes, I've danced a lot and done a lot of roles, but I think that like the bigger picture and what I've gained by being a part of this art form is the woman that I've become and the person that I've grown into.

And it's because I've had access to an art form that's given me the tools to be the person that I am today.

And so you know, having had my experience and coming up how I did is again why I started my foundation and why I want to give back because I know the beautiful results, you know, by exposing a young person to the arts.

Thank you so much for sharing that aspect.

And when you think about your origin story and how you didn't you weren't rooted and grounded in the arts from the very beginning.

What's something else about your origin story that you wish more people knew about you?

Hmm?

Here about my origin story?

I mean, I feel like maybe the way that my mother raised me and my siblings, which was really you know, black people in America have such a myriad of experiences, so it's hard to treat us as a monolith and that you know, we all, you know, have similar experiences.

But you know, I'm biracial.

Both of my parents are mixed, and my mom raised me like you and your siblings are black.

And so when you step out of that front door, that's how the world is going to perceive you and therefore how you will be treated, and it will affect everything that you experience.

And so I don't know, that's just my experience.

That's my experience why I respond the way I do in my industry in the broader world, because it's not every biracial, we're black person's experience in America, but I feel like I'm very rooted in in that identity, and so, you know, I think that often when people don't maybe know that in the way that I was raised and me and my siblings were raised, that it's it can often be like, well, you know, you're not black and you're biracial, and why do you identify that way?

And but you know, we this My experiences have been very real and legit, like being the only in a space in a culture that is so deep rooted in European white culture, and so I think I think it's important for people to know that kind of like background about my upbringing as to why I'm such an advocate and you know, and stand so proudly and firmly in that identity.

My goodness, that is so amazing.

We're going to have to circle back to being the all because, especially in your industry, I know, I can only imagine some of the things that you've experienced, and so we'll have to circle back to that.

But one of the things we want to talk about is that you just announced your final bow coming this fall.

So how does it feel to pair that moment with the release of Bundheads Act Too A story so rooted and encourage friendship and legacy.

How does that feel?

Yeah, it really feels like perfect, perfect timing.

Like this the second book, I feel like picks up right where like Little Misty left off, like from the from the first book and learning how to push through you know, fears and trusting herself and so you know, for me telling that story while also taking a final bout at American Ballet Theater just feels like a full circle moment.

You know, I'm celebrating where I came from, but while also passing the torch to the next generation through this story.

So speaking of this new book, in this book you all speak, Misty and her friend have this beautiful friendship and relationship.

When you think about your experience in your overall ballet career, how important were friendships to you in your journey?

I love this question something that you know, the reason that I'm still a part of the art form, you know, It's been twenty five years of my professional career, Like sticking with it is because I have so much hope and belief that this art form can transform lives and that it's perfectly created in so many ways.

When you just think of it at the root of like the technique of ballet.

I'm not talking about all that comes with it and the people and the culture that has been created.

But I grew up in an environ mint in ballet that was very nurturing and celebrating individuality, which is not often the case when you think of the bigger, you know, scheme of of what ballet is.

But it can be that way.

And so I say all of that to say, the relationships that I had in those very you know, nurturing environments were so critical.

You know.

It was everyone coming into this very sacred, very vulnerable environment, like the ballet studio or whether that be the stage where you're so vulnerable and you're all in it, you know, with this the love of this same art form, like you're sharing in that passion and love.

And so those relationships were real and raw, and that's what really motivated me to start, you know, writing bun Heads the series, because those are all real characters, real people that I grew up with, and showing like the beauty of like having people from different communities and different backgrounds and different cultures come together and find this commonality in ballet and build real lasting relationships around it, and I think that ballet often it's a bad rap because of the way it's depicted in media and television and in movies, that they continue to kind of perpetuate the same stories over and over again that are really negative.

But so many people have such positive experiences with that.

And I think that the relationships that I built in my youth but also as a professional were key to like surviving the hard work and what it takes to like stay in it day in and day out.

You know, you're traveling the world with these people, you know, I spend more time with them than my own family, So it's been critical to be able to build upon those real relationships in this art form.

Thank you so much for sharing that.

And one of the things I want to lead into is you said you talked about having a bad rap, right, and so speaking of that, we want to share with you that we recognize and appreciate and celebrate the multi fast the woman which often gets a bad rep right, the women who are fully embodied and multifaceted.

And so we believe that it's okay to be bougie, classy and ratchet.

You can still be elegant and dance to strip club music if you so choose.

So, Misty, we want to invite you to the OHU Blatchet segment.

Do you take on the challenge?

Ah?

Yes, Okay, So now that you've agreed, we're going to tell you what to expect.

It'll be fun.

Note.

So what we're going to do, Missy, is we're going to share three unique questions with you.

We're going to share three sentence completions, and then we have three photos pulled up of you that we're going to share on the big screen.

And what we want you to do is we want you to cheer, We want you to choose one photo, and then we want you to share some context about the photo that we would not know just by looking at the photo.

So we're going to ease into this segment.

We're going to start with the pretty easy question.

And the first question here is what's the best piece of wisdom or advice you've ever received?

I would say, not to let other people's words or actions, you know, define define me or you know who I am?

Thank you?

I love that, Love that, And so in that same vein of recognizing that we're not letting anyone's words or actions define us, and also recognizing that you have a life outside of being a ballerina.

Part of that means tapping into other creative forms of expression, maybe different types of dance.

Right, So when the music comes on and you're hanging out having a good time, h are you gonna twork or two step?

Oh?

Two step?

I am not.

I am not torking.

I that's a good one.

It's okay.

Miss We have so many guests on here that are black women, and a lot of us are just like, won't do the two step.

But there's nothing wrong with the two step.

We appreciate it.

We see you, we see you.

And then, Missy, our last question for this particular segment is what is the sexiest item you own?

And this could be anything.

Oh my gosh, I'm like, I'm in my dressing room right now.

Oh and so I'm like, I got some great shoes that are like old linen.

Yes, we get a show in tell Oh this is amazing.

Oh my goodness.

Okay, So Missy, for folks, can you describe the shoe because people won't have this visual.

What wait, so these these are old too.

I used to wear these out with prints a lot.

He loves they are so painful because when you walk to their lubatons, they're like sparkly silver with like spikes on them.

They're so sexy though, but you and like your ankles hit and like the spikes get you, so you end up.

So maybe that's not something they look sexy.

They definitely, they definitely look sexy.

I would say, like shoes in general, like that like makes an outfit for me.

So yeah, good, yeah, okay, all right, and so now we're going to move to the sentence completion.

Mister.

You do a lot of interviews, right, and you answer lots of questions.

What is one topic?

Wait, let me back up, because it's supposed to be sentenced completion.

Let me get this together.

One question or topic I wish people asked me about more often is, Oh.

My goodness, I get asked about a lot of things, so that's hard.

I mean, I think people often stay away from like my personal life because that's not something I put out there at all.

But I guess, like now that I've like stepped into motherhood, maybe more about that.

You know more about what it is to be, you know, a working mom, to be an athlete mom, a performer mom.

I think there's so much.

There's so much there, mister, you are not going to believe this.

So our next sentence completion is.

One thing I share with everyone about being an athlete mom.

Is is that I feel like.

My whole career has like cultivated to this moment.

I think that being an artist and being an athlete has has given me the tools to be a mom.

It's like prepared me in so many ways.

You know, if you think about like all of the amazing attributes you know that you gain, you know, the discipline, the grace, the consistency and the work ethic and the patience and all of those things.

I'm like, you know, once Jackson came up with it's like, oh okay, there's some like familiar stuff that's you know, happening here.

And I think that it was again just you know, by being prepared to be a performer and be an athlete.

Wow, thank you so much for answering that.

And so our final sentence completion.

What I love most about myself is h.

Oh, my goodness.

What I love most about myself is my ability to step back and observe people before coming to like quick conclusions about the situation or that.

It's a really good answer, right, a good answer.

Thank you for that, MISTERI.

And now we have these photos.

So let me tell you, mister.

We have three photos.

I'm looking up at them now on the big screen, and before we choose a photo, I want you to choose a number out of one in three and then once you choose number, I'll share that particular photo on screen.

You can give the additional context.

And these photos are absolutely incredible, So felfree, just choose your number.

Two.

Yes, I'm so happy he shows us one.

Okay, So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna share this on the big screen in the sty if you can first describe the photo for folks that won't see this, and then give us the context behind this photo.

Oh my goodness.

Oh okay, So this photo.

I am in a beautiful open, you know, beautifully lit studio with natural lighting and windows all around, and I'm kind of doing like a split on a chair, like half half hanging off the chair and half on, and my head's thrust back with my hair down, and I think it's kind of wet, and I'm wearing I think a white leotard.

Yeah.

Is that good?

Because that's a great description.

It's a beautiful it's it's like an artistic photo.

I feel it needs to be hanging in someone's museum or home.

Now, what's the What's like something about this photo that we wouldn't know just by looking at it?

My goodness.

Okay, so this photo was taken by I believe this is a photographer, Greg Delman, who is a close friend.

And you know, whenever we go into the studio, there's no hair and makeup, there's no one, there's just me and him and he.

You know, I would just wet my hair and you would just go like I usually.

I probably have on James Blake music playing right now in this photo and I just kind of freestyle and it's it's very flash dance this photo.

That is so fun.

Thank you so much for sharing, and thank you so much for playing along with us and allowing us to connect as humans for the ou Bletchet segment.

It's always so much fun.

But we want to get back in some of these questions and circle back to something you mentioned earlier.

You talked about being the only and if we could just think about a listener who is tuning in and they're only in their industry or in their field.

What is something that you would want to remind people of who are are like the representatives, whether they want to be or not, they just happen to be that one person in that space kind of representing their community.

I mean, I like that you said whether they want to or not, because you know, I think that it really again, like I have a certain experience and the way I grew up and the way I identify and the things that are important to me, and not everyone has that, and so I think that it's important to know that you belong you.

You belong in that space no matter what anyone says or how you feel, because there aren't other people that look like you in the space.

But it's also not your responsibility to teach everyone about what it is to be the only or feel like you have to represent your you know, your entire race, and you know, I think just be you, be you all the time, and really stand in your uniqueness and your individuality because I guarantee you all those people around you are.

Oh, thank you for that.

I hope that as our listeners are hearing your response, that they press pause and they rewind and they listen to that again, because I think that that what you shared is so important.

Thank you.

And so earlier you mentioned motherhood and wanting to talk more about motherhood, and so motherhood has become a part of your story in the bond Heads series.

So how has being a mom influenced the way you see courage, creativity, or even finding community.

I've always, you know, thought of myself as like a very patient and very open person.

I mean, I guess open when it comes to like my creativity and my art form.

But being a mom has like cracked me open in like the best way.

I think that, you know, courage looks different now.

It's not about it's not about just me, and it's not about perfection.

I think it's you know, about presence.

It's about showing up fully and honestly, and because kids can see right through home when you're not, you know, when you're not fully honest and being you know yourself, but like letting my son see see all of me and just being really open and honest with him, and you know, I think I think creativity feels more playful now, which I think is so cool.

I think that especially being in an art form like ballet, I think that I've taken my creativity, like really seriously in the past, and now it's like about you know, seeing things through the perspective of my three year olds, you know, and his curiosity and how free he is.

And then when it comes to you know, community, it's like I've never ever felt more valued, you know.

And I think about just you know, the saying it takes a village, you know, to raise to raise your family, and and and I feel that more now than ever, you know, having just incredible support and advice.

And I think about just my mother in law, like We've always had a great relationship, but like she like, we couldn't be more close, and it's just an amazing feeling.

And it's all like because of you know, stepping into motherhood.

That's so amazing too, how your profession has given you those transferable skills to show up more powerfully as a mom.

And I believe you said your son's same as Jackson.

Is that right?

Yes?

Okay, So what's something that you it's very important to you to teach Jackson based on what you've learned, whether it's in your industry or just being a woman in general, Like, what's those very essential to pass along to him?

Even though theys three years old, because it's there's still so and they're learning.

Oh huh, I know they they're they're not.

I mean, like I don't treat Jackson like he's three.

I mean a lot of ways I do.

You have to you know, you have to be like remind But when I'm like speaking to him and communicating with him or telling him things, it's like I don't talk down to him.

I think him really seeing me and my husband olu like communicate and being like really clear and really patient with each other is important for him to see and seeing like all of who I am as a woman, Like everyone has different approaches, but like I don't like shield him from from certain things, like he my husband is so funny, he calls him.

He calls Jackson a little feminist, but like he knows I have a period, and he understands like what that means, and he knows his body parts and he knows like my body parts and it's not like something to be ashamed of or to like hide from.

And I find that so important with him just having confidence in himself self and and the other like you know, the other sex, and in it not kind of creating this barrier or him having like curiosity and like in a way that's like not healthy.

Those are like important, like I don't know, like everyday things for me that like he he really kind of just stands in who he is and and is comfident.

I love that.

I think that that is so important.

And I think that raising children is such an important job and within that, children are constantly teaching us things about ourselves, about humanity, all kinds of We're learning all kinds of lessons along the way.

And so when you think about your role as a mom, and you mentioned before about how being a mom has allowed you to just happen into this level of playfulness.

So what is something fun, silly or unexpected that has come out of being a mom?

I think I think I'm like silly in general, Like I'm like a silly person, like enjoy like even just within my own craft and career, like I enjoy falling and like seeing people fall and like like that.

And so I think it's just like come out more having a son, especially someone who's like so physical and so just to be able to be like really like open and silly and active and physical with him, I guess it is fun and you know, I know, like every parent says it, but like kind of bringing you back to your own youth and then you know, and then also just getting to experience things in a different way, you know, like Jackson's growing up very different than I do, and very different than my husband did, and so it's like we're getting to relive these experiences in a completely different way, which is really cool.

That is such a great way to put it, because I noticed the same thing with my four year old.

It's like you're living your childhood over again, but you can kind of tweak those things that maybe weren't ideal in your own experience.

So I love that, and I want to circle back to I want to circle back to the book.

So the Dance of Courage, it picks up with Misty and her friends learning don Quixote.

What inspired you to censure the story around that specific ballet?

Well, don Q, I should have just told you it, don Q, because I so it holds like a really special place in my heart.

It was the very first ballet that like full length ballet.

I guess that I really did like the lead in.

I mean, of course I was in the Nutcracker whatever, you know, because that's like everyone's in The Nutcracker, of course.

But I think I've been dancing for like less a little over a year, which I started dance late, so that you know, I was picking up things very quickly.

But by the time I was like fourteen years old, I was performing the lead in Don Quixote at my school.

Key Tree was like such a unique role in the ballet repertoire because often, you know, like anything about any Disney movie or any fairy tale, and it's always like this love story where the man is coming in to save the woman and you know strength.

But Kee Tree is like this strong, powerful character, and I think I was so like attracted to that from a young age.

And then Don q was also the first live ballet performance I saw, and I saw American Ballet Theater do it in California where I grew up, and so I was just once I saw that ballet, I was like, Oh, this is what I need to do for a profession, Like this is what I got to do for the rest of my life.

And it was like right then and there in that theater watching that ballet that I was like, this is it, This is like what I'm going to be doing for the rest of my life.

And so I thought it was like a really cool story for us to tell, you know, within the bun Head series, because I think it's important and empowering, like for young girls but also for young boys to see female characters in that way.

And then I think also it connected so well with the character who's a real person, Catalina, who we call Cat in the book, who's the featured character in this story, because the Cat like that I grew up with was so confident, and I think that's why I was so drawn to her, because I was super shy and like introverted and insecure and had a lot of like shame around, like how I grew up like we were houseless for most of my upbringing, and so I didn't have a lot of close friends because I didn't want people to know what was going on.

And so to see someone like Cat, who I think she's like three years younger than me, but like back you know when you're young, like that seems like a lot.

So I'm looking at this girl, it's like a little girl, and I'm like, how does she have so much confidence and like so self assured, And so I feel like keetre connected so well with who Catalina was, so it made sense for us to like kind of put those two together.

Wow, that's that's so beautiful.

Thank you for sharing that.

And so you mentioned that Kat is based on someone someone that you know.

How has that been.

To be able to infuse people that you know into your books and what has there what has that been like for you to do that, and what has been their response to being included in this way.

It's again, I feel like I've been so impacted by just my experience of coming into this art form and then by the people I was surrounded by, you know, with my farewell performance coming up with American Ballet Theater, I've been talking to my first ballet teacher a lot.

Cindy, who is featured in the bunt Heead series as well.

And let's just like the character you see drawn with the short red like Bob and the Bangs.

But we've been talking a lot, and she's been kind of going through archival videos and stuff like that, and one of the things she said to me, she was like, it makes so much sense like these the Bunhead series and why you're doing it, and I'm looking back at these videos and you're right, like the community that was around you and in each of these characters, you know, these these friends that you had in your circle.

You guys were all in this together but shared in the love of this art form.

And it's such a beautiful thing to see, like in these videos like that we really cared about each other and that ballet gave us this opportunity to come together even though we weren't alike in a lot of ways.

And so I think the people that I've you know, created made characters out of, you know, are happy with it.

It's all positive and it's fun to like revisit and see little their images drawn and the way that say tour fiage Ebe, who's the incredible illustrator, just by me.

I didn't send him any photos of any of these people when they're younger, but just by me giving them these script descriptions how he's created them.

Like, it's just it's really cool and amazing to see them come alive on the page and that they all bring something really beautiful to the story.

That has to be such a cathartic and just a special experience for all of you to experience that that is so amazing and misty.

One of the things that we really pride ourselves on this podcast is talking about self care and pouring into ourselves because we all know that you can't pour from an empty cup.

And so when you think about rest and joy, what does rest and joy look like for you in this season where you're transitioning from dancer to more of like storyteller and advocate and like sort of putting those roles at the forefront of your life.

Yeah, self care, I think at this point is like stillness where it's been like impossible for me to really have that throughout my career.

I've spent so much of my life like just life and career, you know, proving myself and performing and like pushing, and so I feel like this next season is really about stillness and like grounding.

Like I'm just excited to like feel more a more more freedom not just in my life and my schedule, but but in my creativity that like, you know, I it's I'm fortunate and thankful to have been a part of, you know, one of the top most elite, incredible ballet companies in the world for twenty five years.

But you're on their schedule and so there has not been a lot of freedom, you know, create creatively for me to do a lot, you know, which is why in the last five years that I've kind of stepped back from the stage, I've been allowed to like create my foundation in a production company and write more books and get out there and speak more.

And so I'm just looking forward to more of that and like collaborating with people I love and admire and in a new ways.

We are so excited to see how how all of this continues to unfold in your journey.

And so when you think about like being more grounded and having more time for stillness in all that you do, let us stillness look like.

I know, it's like stillness is probably still a lot to everybody else, you know.

I think that again, it's just being able to kind of like step back and like breathe and do things in my own time.

But even like stillness in that like mornings are like off limits.

It's like this is my time to like be with my son, take him to school or take him to camp or whatever.

It is like that that is like critical and really important to me, And that to me is like a form of stillness, where like work is not in my mind, and I'm trying not to like do anything connected to it and just be like present and focused on my family.

Thank you for being open and diving deeper with us on that question, because I totally get it.

It's like stillness.

It may not look the same to everyone else, but for you and your life, based on what you've experienced before, like this is stillness, and that sounds beautiful to get to spend more time with your family as well.

So, mister, you have poured to so many people over the years, and as you close one chapter and open another chapter, what are some of the things that you're most excited to receive or experience next.

You know, that's a hard one because I feel like I've received so much throughout my career that I you know, I used to think, like, you know, performing was like I mean because it felt like it because you put so much into it, And then you're giving so much of yourself on the stage, and.

I think I used to and it is it is a form of gift, but it's not it's not giving in a way that I feel like I want to in this next phase.

And you know, I often question, like what would be able to like fulfill me in the way that my performance career has like will will I ever experience that again?

And the work that I'm doing, like with my foundation, has completely filled that void and even more.

And to me, like that is like the giving that I want to continue to do.

Like I poured so much into myself and so many people have poured so much into me that like now it's like I have to share all of the you know, knowledge and experience and the access that I have to be able to give other people access and opportunities.

So that is like super exciting for me, and I can't wait to get my son more involved in like the like advocacy work and like philanthropic work that I'm that I'm doing once you like really underst stands.

It, So.

All that sounds super exciting and such an important experience for Jackson to have as well.

And so Misty, we want to thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to join us for this interview, and so tell our listeners you mentioned your foundation is going to be the thing that's really important to you as you transition.

Tell our listeners how they can support your foundation, and then where they can find your latest edition in the bond Head series.

Yeah, the foundation is definitely important to me.

You can find out more about all the work that I'm doing.

You know, my production company is creating great content that's furthering the cause and the same way that the foundation and everything that I'm doing is.

But go to the website, Missy Copelandfoundation dot org.

You can go to my website miss dot com.

I'm on Instagram at Misty on Point.

And the book is available wherever you buy books, wherever you buy your books, where you know it's it's available in all the bookstores, it's you know, Amazon, all of that.

So yeah, thank you so much for having me, and I just feel so lucky and fortunate too well to have these platforms to share all of the important work.

You know, it's really important to me that I'm doing.

Thank you so much, Mistery.

We'll make sure to add links to your resources in the show notes, and we just thank you so much for your time and your energy, and yes, we're wishing the best and we can't wait to continue to support you.

Thank you so much.

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