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Darren Waller joins us at the bottom of the hour.

Ernest Jones is gonna join us at the top of the hour, So we really appreciate our guess staying up and joining us tonight, but keep Cleveland Browns have announced that their third round pick, Dylan Gabriel, will start Sunday against the Minnesota Vikings in London.

When asked about getting Gabriel getting the starting job, it was literally it literally left your door speech less.

Oh Joe, let's take a listen to this.

Yeah, let me need that things.

Locally right?

Use for more, Gus, what do you think you got to show you the show to some coaches just to haplie?

Have I believe in you that you can?

You be ready?

You say.

How much?

How much has Joe been important to both of you and Dylan in terms of your guys like development to this point?

Man, y'all money?

Oh Joe, do you like the way your door handled this press conference?

Absolutely?

Absolutely, because whatever he says, they're gonna twist his words.

If you say nothing, you know, that's really well.

On any other team, they have thirty one other quart excuse me, they are thirty one other teams.

Do any of those media members talk to the third string quarterback?

No, it's controversy.

Why create controversy?

How do you not create it?

By when they ask you questions?

Just don't answer.

You just don't answer.

If anything that you could be talking to Joe Flack or why are you talking to shador?

And it makes no sense.

And I like the way he handled it because anything he does say, they're gonna make it a big deal.

They're gonna twist his words.

They're gonna take it completely out of context.

Listen, Dylan gave us a starter, so be it for me.

I mean, it's being reported.

Adam Schefter reported, and some other networks are starting to report that this was his response to Rex Ryan saying what he said on the Sunday Show that keep your mouth closed, moved to the front of the class and X, Y and Z.

I guess this was a situation where he's like, Okay, I should keep my mouth shut.

I'm gonna keep my mouth shut.

It's hard for me to believe that the scenario that he didn't talk to his father.

Obviously he leans very heavily on his father, rightfully, So his dad has been through things like this where you know, he says something, and then if he says something, it's one thing.

If he doesn't say something, it's another thing.

So he took this approach.

Look, he's not just any other quarterback, any other third string quarterback.

You and I both know if he was any other quarterback and he slid down where he did, we wouldn't even be having it.

If he was any normal fifth round pick, we wouldn't even have this discussion.

But he's a filth round pick.

So we shouldn't ask ask him to act like a failth round pick, because that's not what.

We believe he is.

For me, look.

If he had took it, if he had took the pro say, look, I'm happy for Dylan.

Hopefully he goes out there and plays well.

Joe.

I feel bad for Joe, but you know, this is this is the game of football, This is a business in a I'm just you know, I'm happy for Dylan, and my job doesn't change.

I go out there, I prepare, uh and if my time, if my number is called, I'm gonna go out there and give it everything that possibly got.

That's really the only thing that he can say.

Oh Joe, what what's he's What's he supposed to say?

Now it's a situation.

I'm not you know.

We had this conversation and everybody from Cleveland jumped on me.

I said, guys, what are we doing?

Why Why is Joe Flacco here?

We know fla over in Cleveland was before and then let him go.

He was in Indy and he wasn't let him get the straight He wasn't the answer to first time around in Cleveland.

He wasn't the answer in Indy.

He wasn't the answer at the Jets, but now he's going to be the answer this time around.

Joe Flacco hadn't been the answer since twenty twelve when he won't when he took the Ravens to the super Bowl.

And that's it.

Go ahead, O, Joe Nigga.

I don't think.

I don't think he was the answer.

It was more sure of the short term the shirt, excuse me, the short term answer until they're ready to see who's going to be quarterback number two.

We find out who quarterback number two was, and it was only a matter of time.

Same thing with Russell Wilson and Jackson Dark.

Russell Wilson was the starter.

He was, He was a starter for for a short time, like you said, eight weeks or maybe after.

I thought it would have been way.

I thought it had been far beyond that.

But obviously we see what happened.

They made it change after week three.

Same concept.

I knew, I knew he wasn't going to be there being there too long, and I mean, listen, Dylan Gabriels now the quarterback.

I wish him luck and we gonna see.

To me, to be honest with you, I don't think he's an I don't think it's the answer, and we're gonna find out.

Listen, this ain't the preseason.

This ain't the preseason, and the defenses.

That you're gonna see now are gonna be a lot more different than for sure a preseason.

So if you can have if he can handle the pressure, one of the things I do like about Dylan Gabriel And not only can he throw the ball.

He showed that he can be efficient in the preseason, but he's also a dual threat.

He can use his legs.

Sentiment to Jackson Dark.

I'm not saying Jackson dark, but I'm just saying he had that dual threat capability and being able to extend plays and throw the ball.

It's like, it's funny how we look at things now.

Jameis Winston has a big personality.

He's a third string quarterback.

Everybody would have loted Jamis had he did the exact same thing, right, I mean, think about it, Oh Joe, the funny things that he said and the manner rhythms that he has.

Yes, this is Jamis.

Yeah, but they have a problem with should do.

I don't know how should do a win?

If he says something, he shouldn't have said anything.

If he doesn't say anything, he should have said something.

Until he gets on the field and somebody can say either see I told you he could play, or I told you he couldn't play.

It's gonna be something, Oh Joe.

That's just the way.

That's just the nature of what it is.

Absolutely, you know, it's it's totally unfortunate too.

Una.

If it was any fifth round pick, he wouldn't be talked about like this, No, because this would come with that last name.

Yeah.

Absolutely, this was coming with.

The order of being a Sanders.

It just it is what it is.

Obviously, I feel the browns in the organization, Sefanski.

Obviously the owner himself came out and said, this wasn't my pick.

This is not who I wanted.

So the odds are stacked against him.

The car that he dealt.

He gonna have to do his best job and play in the hand that he has when that opportunity comes.

If it does come, you got to come out.

You got you gotta be prepared.

You got to be prepared, and when you get it, you got to shut that door behind you.

I get it.

Look and people say, well, James proved himself what that he was.

He's a journeyman quarterback.

He threw thirty picks.

He was the last quarterback in the NFL since you got to go back to Teesta Verdy in the eighties.

Then threw thirty interceptions.

So I'm trying to figure out what did he improve he took Did he take Tampa to did he take Tampa to the super Bowl?

Because all I know the team that he left, Tom Brady came in the next year and they went to the Super Bowl.

So I'm asking you, guys, you said he proved, what did he prove if he approved?

Guess where he'd been on Joe not to back up in New York.

Where were your being because where where was he last year?

Joe Cleveland?

Cleveland?

Yeah, he was in New Orleans before that.

Yeah.

All I'm saying, I'm saying the personality matches.

We can look prove prove.

Okay, fine, I get your point.

Where he started in the league.

He was Rookie of the Year in the league.

You're absolutely correct, But I I there are a lot of guys that's proved that could Joe Blacko proved that he could play in the league, Joe Blackhoe won a Super Bowl.

Here's the MVP.

Go look at Joe Flacco playoff numbers.

I mean you would say that Joe.

Flacco would have proven more if you say, improved, than James.

I was just saying the personalities.

When we like somebody, oho, we'll tolerate more of their behavior than if we don't.

See we like James James funny man.

Y'all heard what James saying.

Jamee's funny going to have a career media.

Yeah, Jamie Jamis is one on one James say there there isn't another person athitty like him.

I think Shador doesn't have that kind of personality.

I think people just don't like Chador based on the or what he comes with the name uh pops as well some of the things Dion may have said in the past.

People that like Dion.

So any any ill will towards Dion and just overflowing onto his son as well.

For me, you ignored, especially as as as as Shador.

You ignore it.

You've been You've been prepared for this, you had to deal all your life.

Now it's come to a head.

You at the last stop, you reach the pinnacle your childhood dream of being on an NFL team.

You're not the starter, but you have an opportunity to be the starter at Sometimes if things don't go well, you just need to make sure you are prepared when the opportunity presents itself.

And that's pretty much it.

All the noise, block all that out, man block all that out.

It's just unusual to see the starter get benched.

And well, I guess it's common because when Russ got bnched, Jackson Dark came in the start and Russell went to the backup, right, So I guess it's not an unusual as we might think it is.

You're like, well, hold on, Flacco got benched.

Should do it?

Was already third, shouldn't Everybody just like move up a spot and the guy jumps back.

But that's seemingly not how they did it, because Brian Dabas said that jack Dark would start the rest of the season and Russ will serve at his backup in Jambs stage where jamis is Yeah, and I don't, I guess it's common.

I don't.

I don't really know, Ojo, but it seemed like this is the same thing Joe Flacco lost his job.

The guy that was backing up, Joe Flacco moves to the starter and the and Flaco moved to number two and the third quarterbacks exactly where he was.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

I think the.

Thing is until Shador gets on the field, improved or disproved.

What the ojo is fifty?

I mean, I want to play.

He's two cocky, he's too this, he does this, and he does that.

The matter rhythm.

Until he's on the field, until he plays, it's the chatter.

The noise is not gonna stop.

No, it's not, it's not.

Are you muted.

Me?

He ain't said nothing.

I can't hear him.

You can't hear me?

Oh?

Just me?

Yeah, that's you I'm talking to You can't hear me that?

Hey?

Can you see my muscles?

You see my muscles?

A check?

Can you see my muscles?

Yeah?

Okay, there you go.

You got me now?

Yeah, I got you go ahead.

That was me okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, I can.

But they but it's it's a situation, O Joe.

People want to see him succeeded.

They want to see him fail, but they want to see him on the field.

That's what it comes That's what it comes down to.

Ojoe I want to see him on the field, and I want to see him sink or swim.

Yeah, that's what it comes down to because all this talk, well, he shouldn't have been this, or he shouldn't have been that.

Now he's gonna either prove a camp right or he's gonna be proven wrong.

But they want to say, okay, see now, that's why he's led to the fifth round.

Man, I don't know how y'all see how he playing.

He should have never been in the sixth round.

I mean, it's the fifth round.

You don't know.

I'm sure he talked to his dad.

His dad like, look, son, if it was me, you handle it.

You're your own guy, You're your own man.

But Rex said, I don't know exactly.

I don't want to misquote, but I think he said something to the fact, why are you talking because it's the same situation.

And and here's where he's gonna get beat up at if he doesn't go playing and he doesn't play well o Jo.

Remember he said he can play better than some of the starting quarterbacks right now, That's what got lebron in trouble with Bronnie.

Bronnie was in high school or Bronnie was in college and he bron said, Bronnie is better than some NBA players currently.

You put a huge target.

Now, I get it when you hear you know, you believe in your son, and you should belie even your son.

But when you put it out there like that, Ojo, Man, you're you're asking, you're asking for a lot of criticism.

We can get back to that in minute.

We got a very special guest.

We got former pro bowler, former Raven, former New York Giant form a Raider joining us, Darren Waller.

Darren, how you doing it wrong?

Man?

How y'all doing?

Appreciate your having me.

Man, I'm doing amazing.

Let me ask bro you play it?

I mean, look, you have a little set back and we're getting into that a little bit.

You get drafted by the Ravens, you have you have some issues.

You end up going to the Ravers where you revive your career playing unbelievable.

You go to the Giants and having success there and then abruptly, you know, you stepped away from the game.

What went into that decision that you're playing basically at the height of your career and you says, you know what I need to step away.

I feel like mentally and emotionally, I felt I kept running into similar walls I was running into earlier in my career.

I wasn't necessarily sabotaging myself in the same way, but I just feel like I could run to the wall like this isn't really fulfilling to me.

I feel like there's a lot more room for me to be having joy here and I'm not having joy.

So I feel like I needed to step away to really just re evaluate my life.

While I was doing the things I was doing, was I doing them for me?

Or was I doing them for other people to give me a thumbs up like that?

So I feel like taking that time away really present an organic moment for me to come back and join the Dolphins.

You know when I think about it too, when you think about that organic moment for you and being able to get away and having a sense of peace.

For most usually football allows us to get that piece away from the world, away from reality.

Are you in a space now, Are you in a hit space now where you think you've fulfilled whatever it is you needed to step away from the game from and now you can devote your attention to just football.

Yeah, I just feel a lot lighter, a lot pure just in my life, you know, I feel like there was a lot of things I was involved in or trying to do just to I don't know.

Escape the game in a way.

But now I feel like the perspective I got from these last couple of years and a lot of them to step in and just see it the way I saw it like when I was a kid, you know what I'm saying, Just being excited to play, like having fun, like with a team, just cutting up, like it's just I just see it with a whole new pair of glasses.

Now, Yeah, that's dope.

When you stepped away from the game, did you think it would be as easy as it was to get get back in?

Because normally, you know, getting in is easy, getting back in is really really hard.

I feel like dudes ain't just really just like stepping away and then being like I want to come back.

Usually they step away it's like there really ain't no coming back, So me coming back into it.

I mean, I feel like I've always respected the game, so I'm like, dudes are still just as fast, stronger, maybe even more so.

So I'm like, shit, I practiced maybe three full practices a couple of limited ones earlier right when camp first ended.

So I was like, I don't even really know what I'm.

Gonna be like when I step back into this, like I'm gonna get hit too, I ain't got hit in two years.

And then to I haven't go Highway on Monday.

It was just like you couldn't even script that for real.

I think.

But when you think about it too, when you were in the game, you were still one of the better players in the league at your position.

I mean just removing yourself for two years from that and coming back with just two years, you're still going to be one of the better players at your position as you saw when you guys played.

So I'm excited for you.

Sky's is obviously limits.

Tyreek Hill is now gone, and so that puts you to even more of a bigger role because knowing Mike McDaniel's in the creativity he has offensively, you can create mismatches with.

You all damn day all damn.

Yeah for sure.

Straight up, how long did it take you for your spidery senses to come back?

Because you know, like when you enjoy like when you take like four months off, it takes you a while to really understand, like, Okay, this is where my dangerous body of danger over here, the guys coming up from behind.

I need to get up in my shadow.

Being away for two years, I can only imagine in your spider senses are shut off for two years, how soon did it take them to start tingling again?

Where you felt Okay, this is man's oone.

I got danger in my right.

I need to get up in my shadow.

I need it been left, I need to been right.

How long did that take for the come back?

I still feel like it's coming back, cause like during the week of practice last week, like we had like put a play in where I was kind of running like like a choice but like it kind of turns into like a wheel route and I was out there like on a rad cake and I'm on the red line.

I catch it like my feet are just barely in bound.

So I'm like I got to get my field spacing back.

But luckily, like that first play, first third down of the game, it was just like two man, and I'm just like all right, like I know what this looked like.

I beat this a million times, and just like that muscle memory came back but nah, You're definitely right.

Like I feel like the spacing, reading his zone, seeing how things coverages react from the disguise, like post snap, I feel like all that shit's got to come back with reps.

Yeah, well, I mean, and speaking of reps, was the game too fast for you?

Did it?

Did it feel like you were moving so much?

A little bit?

Being that you've been away from the game and listen, you didn't get a chance of playing the preseason, I'm not sure, but game speeding totally different.

It doesn't how much you practice.

Once you get in the game playing against.

Somebody else, you'd be like, what the hell have you caught up to that?

Yet?

They are your legs?

Are your legs up underneath you?

Yes, I feel like it was a good start Monday, you know what I'm saying.

Like I was getting you know, reps against guys like Sauce and you know, there's good there's good athletic guys on that defense that's moving fast.

So I feel like it's a good start.

And you know, I probably see matchup guys with guys like JC on Sunday with the Panthers.

They they got some guys that can cover.

So I mean I feel it's only gonna get better for me.

I feel like the little things tops of the routes, just to feel like how I'm feeling and stems and just you know, playing fast and not really thinking is gonna probably take some time, but I feel like I'm probably further along.

And I think I was just off Monday night because I ain't know what to expect.

I think the thing is that you, like you said, I mean, you really haven't.

It wasn't like you running routes because you didn't know if you were gonna come back.

And so now basically they putting you out there.

You got to hey, do I rip?

Do I swim?

What do I do?

Do I press?

I mean, do I get on the outside.

I know I don't want to square him up because I don't want him to give my whole chance.

I just want to get my shoulder to it.

How soon did the route running aspect of.

It come back?

Like I said, But it's still coming back, bro, Like I got so, I had got injured when a few weeks into my training and when I said, all right, I'm gonna play again, and that had me out for real until last week.

So like I had a few practices before I got hopped in that game.

So it's really all just coming back to me as we go along.

So like these Wednesday, these Thursday practices, it is like super intentional.

You get better and feel super intentional for.

Me to kind of like, all right, how can I curate like everything that dudes was doing throughout camp?

You know, I'm kind of like trying to hustle up and kind of get back into into that flow, but also just understand, like, you know, I am where I am.

I'm supposed to be here right now.

I ain't got to be where anybody else is at in their journey.

My journey is probably as weird and unique as it gets.

You know what I'm saying.

With the Tyreek, were you on the field when Tyreek got injured or did you see it on the jumbo trying when I was right there.

So we had ran like I don't know if they call it a crash concept in her day, but it's like the dude in the slot runs like the twelve yard out and you got the under from number one.

The smash route.

Yeah, we smashed the smash.

Ran a little under from number one, and I seen the ball over my head.

So I turned, I'm like and re caught it, and then I just saw like and.

Then I seen his leg dangling in the ocean's like spot like just instantly, just like it just brought me to the ground, like I ain't even know my body.

You just didn't even know how to react.

Yeah, because they said he suffering suffered a dislocated knee, ye torn a cl and maybe some other ligaments damage.

It was.

It's tough seeing that, so obviously, you know, and Mike McDaniel is telling the story of how he you know, he's joking with some of the guys like, guys, you just make sure you get this win knowing because look, you've been around.

This game enough.

You know with a s a serious injury nobody had.

The doctor doesn't have to tell you anything.

You don't have to hear a out of report.

You've been around this game enough, you see that.

You know.

Yeah, he not coming back.

Yeah, straight away, I turn around and I was like, come come get him coming.

They gotta put him in the air cash immediately.

Yeah, So you was with Gruden.

I think you were Gruden because he's like, hey, this guy, he saw you.

What has been the biggest difference between Gruden and Mike McDaniel because they're both this this basically the verbiage might be a little different, but this is the West Coast system.

Yeah, no, that the similarities between the two just coming from.

Like the the founding fathers, like like Mike Shanahan and Gruden, Like it's kind of easy for me to pick up the concepts, like there's different words, different nuances, but they're both really like they're one of one individuals, Like there's I don't think I've ever met anybody with personalities like like either one of them.

They got their own unique sense of humor.

But I mean they love ball for real, and they love giving putting the guys in position to you know, do some with their career, do some with their lives, you know.

So they it's really fun energy to be around.

I fel like both of them got just a distinct energy.

I don't I don't know, it's hard for you to say, but the word out of there have been rapports that he was too lenient, and guys would come in late to practice, and guys would come in late the meetings, and guys were overweight.

What have you seen in your short time there that lead you to believe that, you know what, he's the guy that can get this fixed.

He's the guy that can turn this around and get the Dolphins going.

In the right I've seen a sense of urgency just since July from cleaning up, you know, like the finds that guys had from last year and just like all the little things that's just like how the fuck are we doing this and thinking that we're going to win.

Like I feel like.

He's put in his energy and use his words to be like, hey, like this is this has got to change, and you know, of course it starts with me.

But at the same time, it's like it's really up to the guys in the locker room to police this.

And I feel like the captains have really really gone out that way for sure, to make sure things are different from that regard, you know, and the results on the field.

Sometimes it's like, Okay, it may take a while to get things going, like that's how the league goes.

It's just super competitive.

But from the standpoint of little things like you just described, I haven't seen any of that this year, and so it's like all right, like once you have that out the way, like we can actually go somewhere.

Locker room controls the football team, They police, they run.

You got to show me the team to have the strong locker room, and I'll show you a team that consistently win.

You show me a team that like that the locker room and the guys don't hold the other guys accountable, And I'll show you a team just let me.

You let me go.

You put me in any locker room for a week, and I don't know anything.

So I'm going in the blind.

I'm just gonna happen to be in the locker room.

I'm just gonna be observant.

I'll tell you who's winning and who's losing.

Matter of fact, A d since you came back right two years remove, obviously you get out when you come back play for the Dolphins.

Obviously have your team goals.

From an individual standpoint, two years move for the game of football.

What would be a successful season to you now that you return.

I think a successful year for me is you know, really just kind of can't keep in the same mindset I had before.

It's like, I don't necessarily know if it'll be one hundred catches.

I don't know if it'll be the metrics that they once were five six years ago, but just the same process of like how many opportunities it is, like those opportunities you don't get maximized.

That's how I kind of try to measure success, try to get away from like the stats and everything like that and really just kind of like being a leader, kind of being one of those guys like that.

Shannon was just discussing like I'm the oldest guy on the team, I think, which which is wild.

Like I's turned thirty three September thirteenth.

That ain't bad as young, right, So just kind of like embodying that presence too, and just kind of like some of the shit that I've been through coming in going back, like going from where I was in my career, I can relate to where any of these dudes is that in a career, from practice squad to getting cut to getting traded to on the rise, like just kind of stepping up in my leadership ability.

That will say as well, now that you're back in football, because when you stepped away from the game, you stepped into music.

Obviously that's a passion of yours.

But now that you're back in football, have you put music on the back burner if that's something that you're gonna pick back up once your football career.

Is Yeah, it's kind of on a back burner for now for sure.

Like I've I think I've written of one verse or two since July and like a hook or two for a song, but like.

I haven't really been doing anything.

It's been focused on football for reer, Like I got a lot of songs like I like tease some shit, like put some music behind some posts out put out, but all those songs are recorded before I even got back out here.

So and it'll be nice take a break because I.

Was going hard with it and creating in my time off, and so I feel like it's a good flow for me to be back in ball.

And when it's time to get pick the mic back up again, I feel like I'll be ready.

Yeah, I mean I heard a whole lot of rappers from Georgia Tech.

But okay, hey it's a new glad to do that, you know, Yes, it's a new thing there, like hey we we we over do it.

Yeah.

Hey, you know, one of one of my hobbies and one of my passions is you know, I write.

I've written for a few a few artists.

So at any point you picked that mic back up.

Let me know.

I've written for Drake, I've written for for for Nicki Minaj, I've written for a.

Little song you got, you got real credits?

Oh yeah, I got.

I got real credit.

If you ever I wrote for if you, if you look at their credits on some of the songs that I've done, I'm in the credits songs.

Huh your connection worked up?

Yeah, I got.

I'm gonna shure it to you.

I'm gonna send it to you.

But yeah, yeah, we get in the studio, do a little something dueo little duet or something.

Bro And you know what's the best.

What's the bestiguard lounge in South Florida.

I'm in like for Louerdale area.

Hey, listen, we're gonna go together.

Smoke on the water, Smoke on the water, Smoke on the.

Water right there, right of Royal Palm, Royal Palm, Bulevard.

Yeah, or you know, Darren, I don't do nothing to smoke them all, them all, Daniel Marshall's.

Hey, send me my cigars man.

Whoa what I'm talking?

I'm talking to the gas.

They got nothing to do with you.

Oh Choe.

I tell you, man, when I smoke, you don't even smoke, o choe.

You see, all I'm saying is that the Daniel Marshall those twenty four carried you know, I got like, I got a box of those.

Yeah, can you send the smoke cigars?

Hey, hey d Yeah on Pemberg Pies, Pemberle Pies Boulevard.

There's another cigar bar called Fishing NADOs and the two I go to is real nice.

I ain't smoking twenty four carry gold, but yeah, you the.

Goal leave your little gold something.

You know, Daniel Marshall, when next time you go to the cigar bar, that they gonna be in the case.

You just can't go pull them because you.

Know they're like they're like eighty five to one hund than twenty a stick.

But you know, nah a d don't listen to him them sticking called two eighty nine o'clock.

All that listen, Yeah, idiot, oh Joe, why you man?

Because I got it.

I got a box of him.

Damn you A.

Couple Hey, heyded them sticks is probably sent to him by accident.

It was probably for me.

You don't smoke cigars?

Whoa whoa WHOA, We'll get you.

They're in the twenty twenty, you founded a Darren Waller Foundation with the mission to equip youth to avoid and overcome addiction of drugs and alcohol, support the youth and their family during the recovery and treatment a journey.

I don't know how well our audience know, but you originally drafted by the Ravens.

I mean a guy that you're that's your size six five and a half two hundred and fifty five pounds can run like you can run.

You a matchup problem.

No linebackers doing anything with your safety.

They're just too small.

People are putting their best corner.

You beat Salt four touchdown.

You were getting when you were at your prime, when you were with the Raiders.

I thought you was gonna get my record that day too.

I think you had like fifteen catching for two hundred yards.

I'm like, damn, he go get it to overcome what you overcame when you were at your darkest.

Did you understand that, man, I'm throwing this great opportunity away.

Did you Did you understand when you're in it?

Do you understand or do you realize that you actually have an addiction?

Who told you you have an addiction, When did you realize you had?

That's a great question.

I feel like in the moment, I don't think you can.

I think you're too numb.

At least I was like for me, like the the drinking and shit like that was to numb a lot of things I was feeling, thinking, experiencing.

So in those moments where you know, a normal person would feel like, oh fuck, like I'm throwing this shit away, like I don't have access.

To that feeling like it's all kind of shut off, you know what I'm saying.

And I had guys like Ben Watson was with the Ravens when I was there, like right before I got suspended, and he was like, if you could just like lock in, bro, like you don't know where this shit could go, like like a whole bunch of people just telling me that, and I'm just like I can't really receive it because I also don't really have.

That much confidence in myself.

So I realized I was addicted when because I odd in twenty seventeen, it was like a month before what would have been my third season, and I was probably gonna be a starting tight end in Baltimore.

That year I was twenty seventeen, and uh yeah, I odeed and then went to rehab a month later.

And I'm just sitting there listening to what if they're saying.

I'm like, damn, like I definitely that you understand me.

And it's all throughout my family, you know what I'm saying, Like throughout like the generations of my family.

It's kind of like impacted a lot of people, so it's passed on to me.

And then being able to have the opportunity to be like, all right, I could change the course of generations going forward from my family and also just you know, be somebody that people can look to because like shit, I don't fuck up plenty of times, but they could they could still be successful whatever they got going.

How old were you when you started drinking or you started dabbling with drugs?

Were you young or whether you got to college you started drinking, you know, college atmosphere, whether it at high school.

I was pretty young.

I was like fifteen.

I got into like painkillers, like the hydro codon five milligrams, first started smoking weed and drinking after that, probably like junior year, and was just kind of off from there.

It got real crazy through college and through my first couple of years in the league, and then so it's about like a ten year run from like fifteen to I got sober like a month before my twenty fifth birthday.

What would you want your what message would you like to share with the youth about what they can potentially overcome?

Given you're the best person, You're the best teacher because you've overcome something.

You know a lot of what these kids are dealing with.

You know a lot of the science, you know a lot of the symptoms, you know a lot of Man, I'm alright, no you're not.

Because at that seat that you're sitting in, I sat in that seat for about a decade.

Now I'm in this seat and I want to share with you the message of how you can beat this addiction.

The message for me is just like.

There are so many different ways that we try to mask what we really feeling or who we really are.

We compare ourselves to so many different people.

There has to be some level of return to authenticity, find like a comfortability, like a peacefulness and a joy and just being like exactly who you are, because I feel like me this young kid, I was like it all stemmed from the pain I felt from feeling like I was always like the odd man out, or people thought I.

Was too weird, or I had big ears, big feet.

I was getting roasted, or like it all started from all these all these little things that I was like, Man, I don't feel like I'm right good enough, and I want to turn to things that make me feel like I'm good enough or at least forget the fact that I'm not good enough.

And when really it's like there are people around you that are going through the same things.

We just all try to act like we don't have stuff going on in our lives.

So it's really just being yourself.

You're going to tract people to you that love you for who you are and that will support you whatever you go through.

So I would just say, you know, there is really.

No peace, no sobriety possible if you don't find ways to really deal with the pain and trauma that happened earlier in your life or whenever in your life, and just yeah, finding peace with just being who you are, whether people like it or not.

I like that happiness happening is is you know, people say I found happiness, but happiness is something that you create.

Peace is something that you create.

How long did it take you to get to that point that you says I'm at peace with Darren.

I'm happy with that.

It's been elusive man, to be honest, Like, I think my journey with like sobriety is kind of seeing lot differently started like twenty seventeen, and I feel like there were a couple of years in there where I was like, okay, like I'm moving in the right direction, and then there's some years in there where I'm like, I don't know, I feel like I'm kind of moving away, like I'm still sober, but there's still like still something that's nothing locking a little bit from you know, say twenty one to twenty three.

And then it's like, since we're hiring, it's opened up nothing but a path for me to just go as deep as possible with those kind of things and really just look at myself in the mirror.

And now I feel like it's like a lot more attainable.

I feel like the happiness is fleeting, but it's like I'm a lot more content with my life, Like I don't need I can step into football and just be like what I'm gonna just I want to have this experiences is what I want to do.

I don't need it to do something for me to validate me to do X, Y and Z.

It's just like I'm shooting this is the way I'm choosing to live my life, and I'm gonna enjoy that shit.

And that's dope, man.

The funny thing about it too, I'm really glad.

I mean, I'm really glad you're able to be authentic and roll in answering these questions.

Don't the questions of phenomenal do because there are people that are probably in the chat, there are people that are going to see this, and people that are dealing with the same issues you are and not knowing how to navigate those situations or how to deal with it.

And you being a testimony and being someone that has had issues but gotten the help and look where you're out now that I mean, dude, that's that's an amazing story.

And kudos to you.

For having, for one discipline to do it and stick to it and be be able to live out your childhood dream again because most times people don't get a second chance.

Appreciate that.

There We're gonna get you out of here on this one.

Now that you're back, have you put a timetable or time limit on how how long you want to play?

Are you taking it year by year?

Or you was like, you know what, I really like to get two or three more in or you saying, you know what, All I know is that I'm gonna play twenty twenty five, and I worry about twenty twenty six and twenty twenty six and beyond once that time arrived.

But right now, I'm in the here.

I'm in the now, and that's all I can think.

I think you really just said it right there, man, because it's like after experiences like Monday, because I came in, like I said, I got hurt my first goal to train, I'm like, damn, bro we on this shit again, Like this said still this sits still happening, and so I'm like there's doubt, there's fear, like did I even make the right decision coming back, But then having like a night like Monday, it's like, well, wait, like this feels like there's still like plenty left here.

Maybe there is something more in the future, but it's like I feel like, like you just said playing this season, giving this season my all, and then really evaluating from there, and so I'm open to everything.

I don't want to say I'm done.

This is just one chapter, because you know, I don't really know.

Every time I thought I've had my life figured out in which direction it should go, I feel like God has flipped the script and been like, hopefully going this way now, because I was I was set on not playing football ever again.

But it's like here I am, so I'm trying to just remain open.

Well, Darren, thanks for joining us tonight.

Man, congratulations on all the success, everything that you've overcome.

Lets us know that there is a God and that anything is possible.

Stay healthy and after the season come back and talk to us.

Certain Man, I appreciate you always.

I appreciate you coming on.

Man Waller tight end for the Miami Dolphins to go through what he's gone through, Ohoe, to be able to overcome because you know, hey, like you said, he was about to start in Baltimore and ended up getting suspended a couple of times, and they like they moved on, and now he ends up with the Raiders and he's a Pro Bowl player.

I mean, he's at the top.

He's one of those top players.

And then you know, all of a sudden, abruptly, you know, he steps away from the game, and for two years he's like and say, you know what, I want to come back.

And kudos to the Dolphins for giving the opportunity.

I don't know if there were other teams out there willing to give him an opportunity, but I know the Dolphins was one because he's playing with the Dolphins.

And so it's always great.

When you know you're here, you're down here, and then you're back up here again.

And so, like you said, he doesn't know if he'll ever be what he once was in his prime, but for him to come back and to show that there's a possibility because oho, you and not.

Talk about it all the time.

It's easier to get into the league then get out and try to get your butt back.

In back in.

Yeah, but listen, if if you're really good, you leave a good impression before you leave, the chances you coming back they pretty good.

The mismatch nightmare you think about, think about this.

Remember when Jimmy Graham's with the Saints.

Yep, you see what he looked like.

Yep, gronk.

I'm not saying he's gronk I'm not saying he Jimmy Graham, but I'm just saying that he's a mismatched nightmare.

Yes, he can go out there out wide and go against receivers.

I mean, he just he's really good and he got a small sample side to that when they played Monday night.

Yep.

Oh, let's let's pivot back to the Cleveland Brown situation with Dylan Gabriel being named starter.

Yeah, should we be surprised that he's the he was named starter?

No, I mean, he was a number two.

It shouldn't be a surprise at all.

He shouldn't be a surprised at all.

He was.

He listened, mister Fancy came out before the season started and he said that Dylan Gabriel will be the number two quarterback.

I mean, that's what it is.

That's what it is.

So we knew that whatever point things weren't going with with Flacco, Dylan Gabriel will be the next man up.

Now things don't go well with Dylan Gabriel, I don't know what's gonna happen from that point on.

That that feed, that's where I was going next.

You're right, oh, Jo, Because it was reported that Gabriel was getting first team reps along with Flacco its earliest training camp, so he was getting first team reps.

Flacco was getting first team reps.

And who's the court of the quarterback.

Damn from the Steelers Kenny Pickett.

Yeah, Kenny, yeah Picket.

So those guys were getting first team reps.

Should do it wasn't getting those reps.

So I agree we shouldn't be surprised.

The question that I have for you if Gabriel struggles, now, what do we do?

Do they go back to flat or they said, oh, do they give your door an opportunity?

You know what?

I'm not sure and knowing knowing the game, understanding the business and knowing how the business works, I think they will probably go back to Flaco.

I think they would go back to flack On if things don't work out again in Flacco is still not successful when he returns back to the field, then I think Shaduer will get his shot somewhere on the back half for the season.

Ojo, let me ask you a question.

Talk to me.

If you think Shaduer knew what he knew now, you think he goes back to Colorado boards last year?

If he knew what he knows now if he knows what he knows.

Now hindsight, Yeah, probably so.

Probably I think so too, I would think.

But there's no possible way.

There's no possible way, o Jo.

There is not a scenario that anybody thought.

Okay, let's just say, o Jo, he's not the first pick, he's not a top five, he's not a top ten.

Let's just say you know what, Ojo, because you're not having this conversation.

Yeah, let's just say that he's not a first round pick.

Thirty two players going to be selected in the first round.

Right, Ain't no way he thought he'd be a fifth round draft pick.

Absolutely not, absolutely not, not all And some people listen to some people to say, well, he wasn't that good.

He was mad, he would listen.

He can play the quarterback position.

He can play the quarterback position.

He does, he does.

He's not a dual threat, but what he lacks in his ability to run the ball he.

Makes up in other areas.

He has other intangibles that makes him a quality quarterback where he should get an opportunity to start on an NFL team, And until he gets the opportunity to approve he can do just that, We're gonna have to wait and see.

He should apply for a hardship for COVID.

I would say, I would say I would to go back and play.

You're right, I mean, there's really like no way to really know.

I mean, hell, I didn't.

Somebody would have told me I was gonna be a Selver Ride draft pick.

I say, you ought your damn mind.

Yeah, yeah, I was the number I was the number one rated, one of the number one rated players below Division one.

So I'm like, Okay, I ain't gonna go to the first round, but somebody tell me I'm gonna be I'm not gonna be a top third round, a top three round pick.

Man.

Please me, let me tell you something.

You've been around a long time.

I've been around long enough to understand that business and how that business works.

Yeah, anything they don't like about you before you get there, they will find a way to humble you.

They will find him to humble you.

And when your opportunity does present itself or you gotta knock that goddamn though down and close it behind you, because you're not gonna get very many opportunities, especially if they don't like you.

I would have Yeah, I would have I agree with you, Oh, because my brother used to tell me all the time.

I said, Man, you know I've been training camp o, Joe, and I'll be like, man, I ain't getting no rough today, or I'll be in practice.

You know, once I any team, he said, don't worry about it.

He said.

One day John Elwig gonna call on you.

He say, just make sure when he called your number.

Ready, Ready, gotta be ready, he said.

And and I think the thing that really helped me, Oh Joe, is that he told me.

He said, t you can, you could, you could be good in this league.

He said, there ain't a whole lot of he ain't a whole lot of can do what you do now, he said, just keep working, you know, just keep working hard.

I don't know why that man took a liking to me.

I don't know, Joe, I don't know why, But I mean for him and Gary Kubiak.

Kubiak Cool was the backup when I was different.

When I first got there in ninety ninety one, Hey Cool used to pull me to the side.

Now that's when you know somebody really take a liking to you.

He pulled me to the side.

He said he would show me.

He say, Hey, now you're gonna be in here on this, this and this.

You know what you got.

Now they're gonna be in this coverage you run this, You're gonna be on that coverage you run that.

Oh Joe, I'll be I'll be out there doing like I'm doing that, like okay, good job, good job shot.

Hey you know what else?

You know what else?

They'll be like, oh, oh Joe, they be like, good job.

Drop.

That's what I'm talking about.

That's what I'm talking about, getting your playbook to everything.

You know what else.

When I think about it, when I think about some of the things the fancy said, when I think about some of the things the owner said, they're baiting.

Me to a little bit too.

They baiting when you go to the army, when you go to the marine, when you go to the Navy, any of those places where it's astructural environment.

What's the one thing they try to do to make sure to see if you're if you're ready.

Or you're worthy.

But you're gonna try to break you down.

Trying to break you.

They're trying.

They're trying to break him.

He cannot break, You cannot fold, you cannot.

Last out hell, I can come there for hell, now can do none of that.

You got to stay the course.

You got to stay the course and focus on the end goal and prepare for that opportunity because it's gonna come.

Yeah, It's definitely gonna come.

Man O, Joe, Look, I'm gonna shure this or with you.

I only shared it one time, and I shared it with when I spoke at Coach Reed's funeral, I was the only His wife called me and asked, would I speak?

Now?

You got to realize all the people that he played with.

He Coach Reeves played the league, he played on the coach Landry, all the coaches he coached.

He was officive coordinated with the Cowboys.

He was the head coach of the Broncos.

He was the head coach of the Giants.

He was the head coach of the Falcons.

He asked me to She asked me to speak.

I didn't know until like she told me, but she said, Shanney will be a huge honor if you were to speak at Dan.

I was like, I'm like, are you sure?

Like She's like, I'm sure.

She said, Shannon, you was always his favorite.

He said, you worked so hard.

He said, he saw how you came in and what you work and turned yourself into.

He was just so proud.

So I'm sure he would be honored if you spoke, O Jo.

Every Sunday, Coach Reeves would ask seven or eight of us what we had on a certain plate, God on this truth.

Every time he would call on me, he would already have sawt me.

He would tell me he was step out in the hall.

He would tell me, I'm going to ask you this.

This is what you need to say, said like this, And I'm like, why he ain't doing that for nobody else He's not.

That's why it hurt me so bad, O Joe.

When he got fired, I said, had I became because he got fired?

To year I made my first Pro Bowl, I led the team and receive it.

It hurt me so bad.

I said, if I had only become what I later became in three through ninety eight, ain't no way Coach Reeves get fired.

So that's why it hurt me because he invested so much in me.

He believed in me.

He did he drafted me.

Somehow lost this damn mind and forgot to cut me and for him John and cool and coach reeve to take that kind of time, I promise you, and I don't know.

You don't quote me on this.

It's hard for me to believe that a head coach is taking that kind of interest in a seventh round draft pick.

In today's game.

It's hard for me to believe John Elway, the number one pick in the nineteen eighty three draft, or he was a pro bowler, he was an All Pro, he was an MVB, had gone to three Super Bowls.

It's taking that kind of liking in a seventh round draft pick.

Gary Kubiak, who's the backup, is taking that kind of liking.

Oh, I ain't have no choice.

It's like my grandmother when she put when she took my mom's three in after raising hers.

I ain't have no choice on yo, How could I let these people down that had invested so much in me, that believed in me?

How I couldn't?

Man, I got a playbook a every night I'm going home, I said, I'm gonna know everything.

It became second nature, it became I knew, I knew what I had to do.

It's hard to check this out on yo.

Yeah, the tight end is normally uh why Yeah?

And Dan's offense.

He's ex the ex Yes, because coach Landry was a defensive coordinator.

So everything is backwards one three five it is to the right, two four six eight it is to the left.

Yes.

So if it's backwards, that's not Z that's a wing X why.

Wing three hy diag tight end is the x O choe tight end?

Ben why's whole life?

Two four six say you been to the right your whole life?

One three five seven is to the left?

O cho.

Now you got verbage, Oh Joe, I came from the round tree fixed five four three seven?

Man, what you mean?

Fifty two doubles?

Slang is special?

What I got?

I ain't never heard nothing like that?

Oh man, geez, my mind was with spinning.

O Joe.

I just want to know what is it gonna take.

What do you believe it will take for your door to get an opportunity to start this season?

Because this is because.

If he doesn't start this season, Oh Joe, the whole purpose of him not going to Baltimore.

And it's reported that there were another team the Eagles also thought about selecting him.

He said, no, I don't want to play behind her.

I don't want to It wasn't that he didn't want to play behind guys like that.

But you talk about a guy like Jamie Hurst is very doable.

He doesn't miss time, Lamar, you're.

Not seeing the field.

You're not seeing the field at old places.

Now the opportunity to play.

What happens if he doesn't see the field this year for Cleveland?

Hey, that's that's one I don't know, and that's why I'm not understanding.

But if he doesn't see the field this year for Cleveland being at there, they have shortcomings with Flacco and they have shortcomings with Dylan Gabriel, then that's my practice on ownership.

It might be the point we have no choice but to put him in there, because not only is the team gonna call for him, the fans in the media gonna call for him as well.

I definitely think the fans gonna be calling for if Gabriel doesn't play well.

I mean, look, just don't turn the ball over.

Just don't just keep your defense off the field, for damn for thirty five forty minutes.

I'm not asking you to be a world beater, but if you can give your defense, if you can score enough and keep the defense off the field where they're not playing thirty five to forty minutes.

You gotta you gonna have a chance.

You're gonna have a chance to Defense is plenty good enough, but not if you wear them down.