Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're tightening our bindings, racing toward the takeoff table and getting into the V position.

It's time to fly.

It's Tuesday, August nineteenth, and on today's show, we're talking to us ski jumper Page Jones.

Page reached out to us about a week ago following a disconcerting and invasive experience that she had ahead of the start of the ski jumping season.

We talked to her about the incident, plus the extreme measures taken to prevent cheating in her sport, and how to make necessary invasions of privacy as professional, comfortable, and safe as possible.

This was a fascinating conversation.

She is an excellent representative not just for ski jumping, but for women in all sports, and we're super grateful that she trusted us with her story.

Plus counting to ten when you're interim and permanent at the same time and someone called Marcus, we got another one.

It's all coming up right after this welcome back slice this here's what you need to know today.

In track and field news, the second ever Women's to Kathlon World Championships took place this past weekend, with Nicky Boone winning the title of World's greatest athlete.

This whole event is a big fing deal, slices.

Shout out to the folks over together for drawing our attention to it.

The Women's to Cathlon World Championships are organized by the nonprofit ICO for All because women are still banned from participating in the decathlon at the international level.

Ever seen a women's to kathlon at the Olympics?

Nope, because non male athletes compete in the seven event heptathlon.

Well, what's the difference?

You came to the right place.

Here's the breakdown.

A decathlon is a track and field competition where athletes participate in ten events.

On the track, the one hundred meter, four hundred meter and fifteen hundred meter races, plus the one hundred meter hurdles on the field, the long jump, high jump, shot put, pole vault, javelin, and discus throw.

After all ten events, a winner is crowned based on an overall score.

You get points for each of those events and they all add up to that final score.

The seven event have tathlon, which is what I did in college, shares five events with the decathlon.

One hundred meter hurdles long jump, high jump, shot put in, javelin, and adds the two hundred and eight hundred meters.

Even though I loved the seven event format because I would have struggled with the bowl vault, it does seem like it's high time that women get the chance to compete in the full ten events, and the Women's to Cathlon World Championship gives folks the chance to do just that.

And this year there was an extra fun twist because sports bars across the country held watch parties for folks who wanted to see the action happen live on the All Women's Sport network Pretty Badass.

We'll put a link in the show notes if you want to learn more or donate to support the Women's to Cathlon World Championships.

In hoops.

There's a packed slate of five WNBA games tonight, starting things off another finals rematch, The Minnesota Links visit the New York Liberty at seven pm Eastern on NBATV and League Pass.

Minnesota three to ero against the Liberty this season.

New York to recover after dropping two straight games and falling to third in the standings.

That should be a good one.

Then tipping off at seven thirty Eastern, it's the Washington Mystics hosting the Connecticut Sun, available on League Pass.

Connecticut is last in the league, and even though DC's currently in tenth place, the Mystics are just a half game back from eighth, the lowest seed that makes the WNBA playoffs.

That spot currently held by the Seattle Storm, So while the Sun might not make the postseason, they can certainly try to play spoiler for the Sticks.

At eight pm Eastern, we've got the aforementioned Storm taken on the Chicago Sky here in the Shy.

You can catch that one on League Pass, and much like Connecticut, the twelfth ranked Sky can throw a wrench in Seattle's playoff plans with a win.

Tonight's last couple games tip off at ten pm Eastern.

That's the Atlanta Dream at the Las Vegas Aces and the Golden State Valkyries at home against the Phoenix Mercury, both contests on League Pass and Dream Aces on NBATV as well.

All four of those teams are jockeying for position in the league's top seven spots.

We'll link to the fold WNBA schedule in our show notes to the NWSL got to wrap up a few storylines from this weekend's matches.

On Saturday, the Kansas City Current and Orlando Pride, ranked first and second in the NWSL standings heading into the match, played to a scoreless draw that marked the first time the Current didn't score a goal in a home game since CPKC Stadium opened last year.

That's nineteen straight matches.

But the main headline from the battle of the league's top teams was the hot weather.

The game, which was originally slated to kick off at three pm local time, was postponed by three and a half hours due to extreme heat, but the delay happened in increments, with officials regularly taking the wet bulb globe temperature until it fell below the league mandated max of ninety three point two degrees fahrenheit.

Now, if you never heard of a wet bulb globe, join the club.

Apparently, the wet bulb globe temperature is a measure of heat stress indirect sunlight that combines air temperature, humidity, wind speed, sun angle, and cloud cover.

Now, the forecast called for heat, so the time of the game could have been moved in advance, but an NWSL spokesperson told the athletic quote.

The league aims to play matches as scheduled whenever safely possible.

While forecast guide planning, we primarily rely on real time on site weather data to make informed decisions following our inclement weather policies and protocols based on those inputs, The league decided to delay today's match end quote, and certainly the league was also hoping to be able to keep the match in its original time slot in a prime national television slot.

The weather didn't cooperate, though, and the delays were required.

Orlando coach sab Behind said postgame he was disappointed in how the delay was handled.

Quote.

It was too hot to play, and we would have liked that decision to have been made earlier on before warm up, so they can probably prep a little bit better.

It was a lot of waiting around end quote.

As we mentioned in yesterday's show, with the draw for the Pride.

In that game, San Diego WAVEFC jumped them in the standings and now sits second behind the current The game also saw Orlando star Barbara band To go down with an injury in the tenth minute and leave the game, but details on the extent of the injury haven't been released as of this recording.

To Tennis.

The US Open Mixed doubles event begins today right on the heels of the Cincinnati Open.

Jasmin Paulini and Higas Fontek went to battle for the SINCI title just after the time of this recording, and Carlos Alcarez defeated Yanick Center for the championship on the men's side yesterday.

That quick turnaround might affect the mixed doubles draw, but for now it is stacked.

Big name duos includes Fontech and Caspar Rude Emerodicanu and Carlos Alvarez, Naomi Osaka and Gael Monfie, Madison, Keys and Francis Tiafo, Jessica Pagoula and Jack Draper, Venus Williams and Riley Opelka, and men's singles world number one Sinner, who will play with Katerina Siniakova, one of the best doubles players in the world.

The format is going to be different from any other Grand Slam event, with sets that go first to four instead of six, no ad scoring, and a match tiebreak at a set apiece.

ESPN will also be interviewing players between the sets.

Now.

Some doubles players have criticized the USTA for devaluing a Grand Slam trophy by using a new format and holding the tournament in the same week as singles qualifying, rather than alongside the main tournament, but USTA executives argue that not enough people watch mixed doubles, so introducing a new format that draws top singles players, viewers, and publicity is worth upending tradition.

The first two rounds of the Mixed Doubles start at eleven am Eastern today on ESPN two and ESPN Plus and shift at one pm Eastern to ESPN News an ESPN Plus.

By the way, I'll be at the US Open on Thursday for a live show at FanFest with Pam Schreiver, and you can attend for free.

US Open FanFest started yesterday and runs through Saturday with the USTA Billyjing King National Tennis Center, grounds free and open to the public, live shows like mine, featured events, and family friendly activities all centered around the US Open qualifying tournament.

Hope to see some slices there and the rest of you.

We'll get to hear that conversation with Pam on Friday show slices.

We got to give a quick shout out to the interim president of WNBA expansion team, the Portland Fire, Claire Hamil.

Her position at the team may be temporary, but her commitment is forever.

Last week, Hamill got the team's rose logo tattooed on her arm, and not an itty bitty one, y'all, a big old flaming rose on her left forearm.

As the kids say, that's lit.

Are the kids still saying that?

Anyway?

She was joined by at least one other Fire employee who chose to get a tat of the team's pe logo.

Now.

Hamill is a former forty three year Nike executive who came out of retirement two months ago to take on the president role after the departure of the Fire's first hire, Inky Son.

No doubt she's dedicated to making Portland second go round in the w one that lasts kind of like a permanent tattoo.

We got to take a quick break.

When we come back, get ready to enter a world obsessed with crotch machines and inseam lengths.

It's us ski jumper Page Jones joining us now.

She likes to fly downhill at sixty miles per hour and then fly the length of a football field, you know, for a job.

She's on the US national ski jumping team, one of the top US women in the sport.

Has been named a six national teams and three World Championship teams.

In twenty twenty one, she became the first woman to jump a large hill at a World Championships event.

She's studying biomedical engineering with a pre dental track at University of North Dakota and she got engaged on the side of a mountain in Slovakia a few months ago.

It's page Jones high page.

Hi, thank you so much for having me.

I got engaged on Safari and I thought that was pretty rad.

But the hiking up a side of a mountain and then popping the question is even better.

It was pretty good.

What was actually the most exciting was the hike back down.

It was eventful.

I was gonna say, I feel like when someone who's a ski jumper says exciting, what you mean is d dangerous and life threatening?

Yeah?

Perfect, I'm glad that you know what It's like the Bachelor, they always make him jump off of building.

It probably only brought you too closer They say that people in dangerous situations together start to feel more attached.

So if you and your fiance weren't already you know, halfway to the altar, it probably helped.

No truly, and he does lose, so he's also kind of an adrenaline junkie.

So together we kind of are fine with dangerous things.

Yeah, perfect match.

We're going to get into this ongoing controversy surrounding ski jumping suits and an experience that you had at a recent competition.

But first, I just want to go back to your early years in the sport.

I'm guessing that most of our listeners have never even seen a ski jump in real life, not to mention attempted to jump off one.

So how did you first get started in this wild sport?

So?

I grew up in Park City, Utah, which is the location of a lot of the events for the two thousand and two Winter Olympic Games.

So I grew up like ride underneath the shadow of the ut Olympic Park.

And in Park City they have this p called Get Out and Play where they have like elementary school age kids go up to the we call the EUOP but the Utah and Big Park to try the sports.

So I tried like ski racing, freestyle skiing, Nordic skiing, and my sister was better at every single one than me other than ski jumping.

So I really like ski jumping at that point in time because it's the only one I was better at my sister then.

But ski jumping is very interesting when you're younger because you get to progress so fast.

So they start you out on a five meter hill and then it progresses to like ten meters twenty meter, and I think that like idea of like getting to jump bigger and bigger hills is really what drew me in and kept me in the sport.

Yeah.

I have friends who live in Park City and their son is just a crazy skier, like doing things that I would never try to do even at my peak, and he's a kid, So I get that that place sort of raises youngsters who are willing to try the tough stuff.

I actually love seeing the behind this videos of people training for dangerous sports.

Are there any quirky or unique ways to practice or learn how to ski jump without the danger when you're first starting out or when you're you know, advancing to a bigger hill.

I honestly, Like, I don't think I'll ever work out in a public gym while I'm still a ski jumper.

Like, a lot of this stuff we do is just really funky.

I'd say probably the most interesting thing that we do.

We call them catches, but we get in our like in run or tuck position on a roller board, and then we jump and our coach catches us and lifts us above his head.

So it's kind of like the dirty dancing lift.

But we do that to practice the like take off and into the flight.

Interesting, why wouldn't there just be some sort of indoor slide or something where you go into the little pit full of foam.

We have we have where you can like do that and then land on a pad.

But what it misses is this kind of like continuation into the flight because when you land and you hit a pad, you stop and ins ski jumping.

While you're in the air, you're kind of constantly trying to rotate to stay on top of your skis, So having the coach catch you kind of imitates that better.

That's wild, Okay, all right, So Jennifer Gray and Patrick Swayze might have been a great duo for the ski jumps.

They just they never never got the chance.

Tell me about the shark socks that you wear.

That's just kind of like a fun thing that started.

I'm really into sharks, and I think that competing should be fun.

So one of my ways to kind of keep competing fun is by wearing shark socks do on my competition, So I have quite the collection.

If anybody doesn't know what to give me for like a birthday or whatever, shark socks is usually a pretty good get.

But yeah, just a way to keep it fun.

It does seem fun but also very scary.

What kind of mental prep do you do for competitions and how much do you have to self regulate your nervous system and other things before you're about to compete.

I'd say quite a lot.

Ski jumping, like what really matters takes like less than a second, which is the takeoff, so like you have to be really locked in for such a short period of time.

For me, I'm a chatter, so like I like to talk to everybody and anybody up until the point where I'm actually going to go take my jump, which kind of helps me stay not stressed.

This past season, I actually started jumping with earplugs in so that I can't hear the announcers, because for me, it's better if I don't know how far everybody is going, because if I know how far people are going, then I'm like, I have to go like ninety meters or I'm not going to make the second round.

And then I'm also on anti anxiety medication, which has helped a lot with the mental side of things.

But yeah, I would say a lot of people compare ski jumping to golf, where yes, there is like a physical aspect to it, but I'd say it's almost more mental than physical.

Yeah, it certainly feels like it.

Just putting yourself out there and trying something requires a lot of bravery and confidence and belief in yourself that you're going to follow through with every little detail that's required to be in the right position and do it safely.

Right, hmm, definitely.

All right, let's talk about go out a little background for our listeners on the whole controversy that's going on in ski jumping, because the last couple of years, and I guess in general in the sport, there's a real benefit to getting your suit just right, and this past March there were five male Norwegian ski jumpers and three officials that were suspended by the International Ski and Snowboard Federation accused of cheating by altering the crotches of the team's ski suits.

So most of our listeners probably familiar with doping, using performance enhancing drugs to get better, but the concept of suit doping probably pretty new to them.

So can you explain what role the suit actually plays in ski jumping and then the advantage athletes might try to get from cheating by adjusting the crotch or somewhere else on the suit.

Yeah, So if you've ever seen like skydiving where people like jump out of planes with these like squirrel suits on, that's essentially what our ski jumping suit is for us.

And obviously the closer you can make it to a squirrel suit, the better it's going to fly.

So they're all very highly regulated their standardized preach athlete like m and height measurements to kind of prevent having like a really low crotch to catch more air.

And then the other main rule is that the suit can't be bigger than four centimeters of your body anywhere, So like if I were to get equipment controlled, they could measure like my thigh and then measure the thigh of my suit, and if my suit is larger than four centimeters of my thigh, then I would like be disqualified.

Ski Jumping is a very equipment heavy sport.

I would say, like, if you have a good jump and you don't have good equipment, you're going to probably jump shorter than somebody with a bad jump and good equipment.

So it really is make or break, especially at the higher level.

So this is more of an issue at the World Cup, specifically within the top fifteen jumpers.

It's so interesting because I would think that it would be you'd want to be the most aerodynamic going down so you could get as fast as possible.

But then it makes sense that once you're actually up quote unquote flying, you want to find ways to have the air booy used.

So, like you mentioned, the squirrel suits sort of have wings almost, but on a ski jumping suit, in theory, it should just be the dimensions of your body.

So specifically, the crotch is a place that they have to closely regulate.

I was looking at the Guidelines for Measuring and Control Procedure document that producer Alex sent me, which is very detailed, and there's a whole section called crotch control.

What does that entail?

And is this something that athletes are just like used to in ski jumping that there's it reminds me of the old print song.

I won't say the name, but yeah, like tell me about crotch control.

Yeah, there's a lot of crotch talk.

We'll call it the en seam if we don't want to go with the word.

Crotch is the only measurement that they're checking on every single person prior to their jump.

So before jumping, we get something we call the crotch machine, and it has this like little lever that comes up and they'll put it at like what your n seam measurement is, and the you step into the machine and then they flick the little lever up and if it clicks, that means that your en seam is above that and you're good to get.

But if it doesn't click, your in seem is too low and you're immediately disqualified and you don't even get to take a jump.

So en seem is the thing that they regulate the highest.

That's wild the crotch machine.

Oh my gosh, the things that I don't know about in sports that are just like normal for y'all, okay, And I saw a picture in the guidelines.

It literally is the equivalent of like, I don't know, like a popsicle stick that like flips up out of the table.

And in theory, if it doesn't fully get into place and click, then there's something in the way, which would mean that extra fabric or that that thing.

So what would people be doing that would prevent the crotch machine from clicking, Like stuffing something in their suit or putting air or somehow creating more space that would make the crotch lower and therefore more able to pick up air.

So each country is making their own suits.

It's not like we order them from a company in like size small, medium, large, So when somebody is in seem as too low, it's because they made it that way.

It could be like their leg length isn't long enough.

They just added extra fabric there when they were making it, et cetera.

Which brings us back to the story from in March when those jumpers were suspended for the crotch on their suits because essentially they made like an extra seam in there and that was what they got caught for so because the suit plays such a big role.

Fisked, the organization that oversees all of ski jumping, has introduced a lot of new rules in recent years about the size of suits, including taking measurements of athlete bodies.

And you're used to that as a ski jumper.

So can you explain what this process has looked like during your time competing, beginning with your first year competing, and like whether it's changed over the years.

How they make sure that they're taking measurements and regulating suits.

Yeah, so the measurements that they're taking from each athlete that are standardized stay with you the whole season.

Is your height, your in seem your arm length and your foot length all the rest of the measurements that kind of just take on the spot, but those are like standardized.

Those are your measurements as a junior athlete.

So I think it's under twenty those measurements are supposed to be retaken annually, and then after twenty it's you take them and they're supposed to be good because theoretically you're not growing anymore.

I've been a senior athlete for I think three years, and I've had to retake them every year because they keep changing the procedure.

So when I first started competing internationally, it was kind of a modified version of the crotch machine, so it would measure our height and our crotch at the same time, and we just like stood against a wall.

And then it evolved from that.

The first change was to being measured on a table instead of standing up, so it's kind of the same thing, except for there was like a laser that was measuring the height and then the crotch.

And then the year after that is when they introduced the three D body scan.

So the three D body scan, you go in, you're in your underwear and like bra for women, and you stand on this little platform and it like spins you around and takes a body scan, and then on the computer they put dots at where the bottom of your crotches and where the top of your head is to get the heightened enseeam measurement.

And the three D body scan is kind of where it's evolved from each year.

So the first year that was just like the normal procedure.

We go in, stand on the circle, We're good, and then I think some teams got caught sewing stuff into their underwear.

So the next year after that it turned into a FISK provided you underwear.

You had to go change into that underwear and then get the three D body scan done, And then evidently people were finding a way around that, so the year after that, you had to change into the FIST provided underwear in the presence of a doctor, which brings us to this year.

Kind of the same deal.

You have to change into the FIST provided underwear in the presence of a doctor, but this year there was a kind of second part inspection to it, so we had to drop our panties and stand there while the adoctor inspected us for like three to five seconds with our lake spread, and then once he said like okay, you're good, then we put our underwear back on and got our three D body scan done.

So they've escalated it quite a bit each year.

Okay, the three D body scan is making me think of like motion capture for movies, where you've got the dots all over your body and it kind of can track like each part of you.

And it makes sense that they would elevate to that because I noticed in the guidelines that there were very strict rules about standing up perfectly straight, or taking a deep breath before other things you think about slouching, or ways that you might try to alter the numbers so that your suit could actually be bigger than you are.

But it sounds like the escalation in that has taken a bit of a turn in that you were pretty comfortable with what they were doing before, but this most recent time that you went in ahead of this competition in France, you didn't think the experience was in alignment with what would make athletes most comfortable, right, So can you tell us what happened there and why it was different?

What was different this year is always in the past, since they've introduced like changing into the underwear, we've had a female doctor provided for us, but this year when we showed up, there was a male doctor there.

He said that he worked as a reproductive endocrinologist, So like say, subsection of OBGI in which I think in physicize made it okay, But yeah, we had to strip down pretty naked in front of this male doctor and they asked us like all right, like do you guys feel okay about this?

And we're all like no, not really, and they're like, okay, well, you guys can refuse, that is your choice, but then you won't be able to compete.

So it was like the illusion of choice.

If we wanted to be there and compete that weekend, then we'd had to, you know, strip down in front of this male doctor.

I'm so sorry that happened to you.

When they asked are you okay with this?

At what point in the proceedings was it?

Were you all together when you were asked?

Who was asking you?

That?

Our whole team was there?

We had this is when we had arrived at the hill for our testing appointment, so it was probably like five minutes before we were getting tested.

And as far as you knew, you were going to have the same tests as before, including the naked search, but you expected it to be a woman.

Yeah, okay, So it wasn't the actual practice as much as it was that you were not given the choice to have it administered by a female doctor.

And who asked if you were okay with it?

Was it a representative from FISS or Yeah, it was.

The FIS equipment control personnel for the female circuit.

So you know, those of us not in sports like this might be shocked at the very idea that just being able to compete requires this level of examination, that there's a lot of ways that your privacy will be impacted, and that you're sort of used to it by now.

We've had other athletes come on the show and talk about having to pee in front of anti doping control officers or do a variety of other bodily things in front of people, and I imagine they're all sort of uncomfortable.

But up unto this point in this particular test, did you always feel like you were being considered and that what was being asked of you was necessary to the sport and handled in the best way possible to achieve the desired result of fairness.

Yeah, like, it's in my best interest that the playing field is as even as possible.

The United States, despite being a large country, is actually a very small country in ski jumping.

We have a lot less funding than some of these bigger countries like Norway or Germany or Austria, And generally what we see is these bigger countries have more access to kind of work go around these rules, So the stricter they are, the more it actually benefits me.

And I would say that like, over the years of an athlete, I have gone really comfortable kind of being in very bare minimal clothing around people, whether that's just like in the changing room or for equipment control purposes.

But it made it different about this year.

Yes, was the male doctor, but it was also this like stand there, spread your legs and inspection because like even when you're there for like DCO doping control, they're like inspecting your genitals.

They're just there to witness basically.

So this was the first time that there was actually somebody up close for three to five seconds inspecting your genitals.

Yeah.

Before it was just they were there while we were changing.

There was no like stop, pause, wait, yeah.

Got it was anyone else in the room with you.

Yeah, So the setup was everyone was in the same room.

I went behind a barrier where the doctor could see me, and then my coach was able to watch the doctor watch me, but without seeing me.

Okay, okay.

This is bringing up so many thoughts about Larry Nasser, and in the US there was a really big conversation about trust from female athletes with doctors, trust in their federations and the people that are put in place to help protect them.

And in the case of Larry Nasser, there were parents in the room sometimes as he was violating girls who didn't know either couldn't see exactly what he was doing or were assured that it was necessary.

Did it make you feel better to have a coach watching the doctor watch you in any way?

Not really?

And also, like with the Larry Naster thing, I think that like the US women's team felt more affected than the other teams at the competition.

I think specifically because we kind of grew up more in a sport environment where we did have this distrust of doctors, like just because somebody's a doctor doesn't make them safe, whereas in other countries, one I think it's more usual to have a male gynecologist, and two I don't think they have this like safe sport cloud above them at all times, right.

I mean, having learned and heard about the extent of what Larry Nasa was able to do over decades will certainly make any woman an athlete in particular, much more wary going into these situations.

So you had your coach watching the doctor, and your coach, the US team coach is one of the few or maybe the only female head coach on the women's circuit.

Right, Yeah, she's our assistant coach but yeah, she is the only female coach on the women's circuit or the men's circuit for that matter.

Wow.

Okay, So I mean that's a little more comfortable for you probably that there is a woman watching the proceedings.

But if you had asked, would you be allowed to have any other chaperone or person in the room for your safety?

I would assume.

So the issue with like being an Americans, I'm traveling all the way to Europe for these competitions, so I wouldn't have known to bring a person because I didn't know it was a male doctor, and you know, paying to bring a chaperone or whatever was kind of unrealistic.

So I feel very lucky that we did have a female staff member there, but you know, other countries might not be as lucky.

We have, like the Japanese team traveling all the way from Asia for these things, and I don't think they have any female staff members.

So when you arrived and they said here's what the proceedings are going to be and here's the doctor doing it, did one of you ask is there a woman we can do this with instead?

And that's when they gave you that sort of illusion of choice.

Yeah, Wow, I'm so sorry that you had to deal with that.

What were the conversations with your coach and your teammates after that?

We all just kind of talked about how uncomfortable it was, and it was me who brought up I was like, we need to like go to the media about this, Like something about this feels so like icky and wrong that we need to like tell people.

It was like I have to go like run and tell a trusted adult like yeah, but yeah, we just kind of like felt that it wasn't quite right.

And actually even some of our male teammates like sent a message in their World Cup group chat to say like, hey, like, did you guys know that they're not providing a female for the women?

Like I don't feel like this is quite right.

So it's not it's not just us that's kind of feeling that way.

I'm so glad they did, because unfortun sometimes it does require men to speak up in these instances.

Did you feel like you mentioned that in Europe?

Maybe there it's not as strange.

Did you feel like this was more a matter of an absence of thought, like they didn't even consider, Oh, do you think these women would be more comfortable with a female doctor or do you think it was something done with intention, like they don't deserve to have that request.

You know, what's the thinking behind them not even for a second in advance considering that it would make more sense to have a female doctor do this.

I feel like they must have considered it at some point, because up until now we've had a female doctor.

I think for FIS it was more of a convenience thing, like it's more convenient for them to only have to have one doctor there, and I think that's why they invited like a male obguin trying to cover all their bases.

But I do think it is more kind of a convenience thing.

What was the age of the athletes that we're having to undergo this body testing?

I think our youngest athlete right now is eighteen, and our oldest on our team is twenty three.

But the procedure is the same for underage athletes, So, like any you're eligible to compete in international competitions at age fifteen, and the procedure would be the same for any athlete wanting to compete at that level.

So any athletes under eighteen from another country that might have been there to compete had to undergo this as well.

Yeah, yeah, that seems really problematic.

So you reached out to producer Alex because you saw that she'd written about and covered ski jumping before.

Did you reach out to other media or other folks to try to see if they were interested in talking about this?

Not really, I just figured i'd try one and see how it went, and tried to find a woman who've written about ski jumping.

So yeah, yeah, probably not as common as you wish and hope for.

Right, Well, it's kind of difficult, but looked doubt.

Yeah.

Well, I'm so glad Alex brought us the story because I do think there are elements of sports like during this interview, I've already learned so much.

I've never heard of the crotch machine or or any of those things, and I fully get how necessary they are, and to your point, you actually want them.

You want these protocols in place to make sure that what you're competing in is as fair as it can be.

But obviously there are ways to ensure that all the athletes feel centered and taken care of in these moments.

So what's the next step?

What else?

First of all, do you want people to know while you have this opportunity on our show, I.

Just would like to say that I don't feel like fairness should come at the cost of my dignity.

There has got to be some way that we can ensure the sport is fair without like having all the athletes strip searched.

I think it might require a little bit more funding or personnel on that front, but I don't think taking the easy way out at the cost of like the female athletes is the way to go.

And what next steps might you want either the US Key Jumping Federation or other folks that help represent you and your fellow athletes, what would you like them to do.

I think just start discussions with this specifically on kind of the women's front of things, making sure that we're considered in equipment decisions.

A lot of the times they make decisions for the men and it's just applied to the women, which is unfair, particularly in suit decisions, because their bodies are different, and we also fluctuate a lot more than the men do, like week to week.

So I'd say that, like, I don't even know if there's a woman on the council for FIS, that's like providing opinions about this.

But if there isn't, I think there should be, And if they're currently is, maybe they need to speak up a little bit more because I definitely feel like the women are the afterbot here.

Are there any other outcomes or extensions of this that you're worried about.

I'm kind of worried about what situations the sets minor athletes up for.

Like, there are bad people and predators out there, and I don't think like normalizing being naked in a sports context is safe for minors.

Like a lot of us will practice for measurements before we actually get them done, just because they do influence a lot for your season.

And I don't want there to be a situation where a predatory coach says to a minor athlete like, hey, like we need to practice measurements.

You strip down naked to get these measurements, Like that's just how it goes.

The practicing is so that you know your coach might give you tips on like how to stand, to make sure that you're not giving them measurements that would be disadvantageous.

Yeah, Like I like the difference between like standing all the way straight up and like ducking your chin a little bit can make like a centimeter difference.

So just practicing to make sure you know exactly what you're going to do when you're walking in there.

What's next for you are the Olympics on the horizon.

I don't know anything about the qualifying for that.

Is that what these events that you're currently competing in are leading up to.

Yeah, so our Olympic qualifying period actually started last July.

We have a really really long qualifying period.

All points that are scored in Grand Prix, which are summer competitions and World Cups, count towards qualifying quota spots for your country.

So when we qualify a quota spot, that spot isn't necessarily yours, and then starting in December, we'll start competing for those spots.

So like right now, I have I think like one hundred and something points, which is definitely high enough to keep a quota spot for the US.

And that's good, And if I can continue buying results from last season, I'll have a really good shot at securing one of those quota spots for myself.

Amazing congratulations on that.

And then you're also in school hoping to graduate next.

Year right the year after next year.

Yeah, okay, okay, we've backed it up a little on your on your LinkedIn.

We were aiming for twenty twenty six, but the ski jumping has taken priority a little.

Yeah, I had to transfer.

I was originally at the University of Utah, but transferred to the University of North Dakota because of their online program.

But that transfer did set me back a year.

Got it And is the eventual goal to be a dentist?

It is.

Yeah, I actually just got my DAT scores back today.

I'm really excited.

How'd you do?

Really really good?

Crushed it?

Amazing, amazing.

Well, you just seem like an incredibly impressive woman between the biomedical engineering and the pre dental and the ski jumping and your travels and your photography on your install, like you seem like you're crushing life.

And you're still so young.

So we can't wait to see what you do in the qualifying And we're so grateful you were willing to talk about this.

I think that is the biggest thing, is just athletes getting out and saying like, this is what we need, this is what we deserve, this is what we have dealt with, and we should improve it.

And I think that you're going to be a great voice in helping change things going forward.

So thanks so much for talking to us about it.

Yeah, thanks so much for having me.

It's you know, sometimes hard to get a spotlight on small, niche sports like ski jumping, so I really I really appreciate you taking the time to kind of like actually do the research and invite me on here.

Yeah.

Well, big thanks to Alex for bringing the story to the show, and also to you for allowing us to name a show inevitably the Crotch Machine percent what we're naming the show.

Thanks to Paige not just for taking the time to talk to us, but for reaching out to us to share her story.

After speaking with her, we contacted FISS, the organization that oversees international ski jumping competition and creates and enforces the protocols that Paige and her fellow athletes are subjected to.

We wanted to see if they had any comment on the experience page described and to ask a few clarifying questions.

As part of their lengthy, very helpful response, FISS said, quote, FISS is fully committed to a fair sport and to protecting honest competitors from being harmed by any form of fraud or manipulation.

We are also committed to doing so while showing the utmost respect for the athletes safety and well being.

This is non negotiable.

End quote.

We asked FIS about the reason that a naked legs spread examination is required in the first place, and they offered some insight on that noting quote.

Over the course of the last couple of years, there have been a few occasions in which athletes attempted to defraud the three D measurement process, for example by adding prosthetic like parts to that area of the body.

This was the reason why this year's protocol was further developed end quote.

As for the evolving procedural changes and athlete rites, FISS said, the three D body scan protocol quote gives the athlete the possibility to refuse to undergo the procedure in case they feel uncomfortable, and postpone the measurement for a later date with no penalties or consequences.

End quote.

It's worth noting, though, according to Page the chance to refuse or postpone came on site five minutes in advance of the procedure, and while FI set an athlete who refuses wouldn't be penalized or have any consequences.

They also wouldn't be allowed to compete, and with prize money and Olympic qualifying points on the line, athletes would still be impacted by opting out.

We also wanted clarification from FISS on the rules that are in place for minor athletes, given that page said all athletes went through the same procedure, even those under the age of eighteen.

Fifth wrote back to say, the protocol recommends quote the presence of a parent or egal caretaker at the moment of the exam, or, in case this is not possible, of a team member preferably of the same gender as the athlete, authorized by the parent or legal caretaker, who would also be signatories at the consent form end quote.

As for the doctor that was provided at the event in France, that page attended, the statement from FISS says, quote for that competition, FIS brought in a renowned medical doctor, in fact, with extensive experience working with women's health to perform body inspections for the twenty twenty five twenty twenty six season.

FIST continued with that said, we absolutely respect the athlete's feelings and understand that the presence of a male doctor may be deemed uncomfortable by female athletes.

FIS acknowledges this kind of constructive feedback and hereby commits going forward to offering female athletes the possibility of being examined by a female doctor end quote.

We reached out to FIS to clarify how intentional the use of the word possibility was, i e.

Was it interchangeable with option or opportunity.

Did they mean a female doctor will be guaranteed at all future events or that it's just a possibility that a female doctor will be provided.

FISS replied that quote, whenever there are three D body scans scheduled for female athletes, they will be allowed to request for it to be conducted by a female doctor.

End quote.

We'll keep you all updated if we learn any more about these evolving procedures, and we're always open to hearing from other athletes as well, ski jumpers and non ski jumpers alike.

We know that there are a lot of ways that competing in elite sport can require sort of necessary invasions of privacy, but that doesn't mean that those experiences shouldn't be as comfortable, safe and professional as possible.

So if you have your own story to share, please reach out.

Our email is good game at wondermedianetwork dot com.

In the meantime, we really appreciate Page for sharing her story and Fiss for getting back to us and saying the organization is willing to make changes based on athletes safety concerns and feedback.

One of the reasons this story feels so important to us is something Alex mentioned when we were talking about the show today, and that the situation isn't always toxic or abusive.

Sometimes it's just about improving practice so that athletes have the best experience possible.

And that's why it's so important to talk about things like this.

Even if everyone had the best intentions, that doesn't mean we can't still make improvements.

All right, we have to take another break.

When we return, it's my party.

You can come out if you want to come out, if you want to come out, if you want to stick around.

Welcome back slices.

We love that you're listening, but we want you to get in the game every day too, So here's our good game play of the day.

Follow Page on social media.

We'll link to her socials in the show notes.

And if you did something nice for somebody in honor of my birthday yesterday, don't forget to send me a message.

I want to hear about it.

Hit us up on email Good Game at Wondermedia network dot com, or leave us a voicemail at eight seven two two four fifty seventy, and don't forget to subscribe, Rate and review, y'all.

It's easy watch using my birthday party to come out rating one out of one Super Slices review.

Y'all might remember me mentioning super Slice Emma aka at the Stitch God on Instagram, the world's best cross stitch artist who works with tons of teams and athletes and brands and celebs and made my super dope corduroy good game hat.

Well, Emma came to my birthday party this weekend and she used the occasion of my birth to publicly tell the world she's gay.

Marcus.

Now.

Lots of folks in her life, of course already know this, but she needed to send a crystal clear message to the men in her dms, and she did that using a custom fake cake from Chicago based artist Anna Lasberry aka at Crappy cake art on Insta and TikTok.

Now anacrafts these intentionally imperfect messages via crappy cakes to honor life's messy moments through love and encouragement and humor.

And she even leaves some of her fake cake creations around Chicago for passers by to discover and delight in and take home with them.

And for this particular occasion, the fake cake read She's gay, Marcus and on the back Sarah, Happy birthday, Thanks for hosting my coming out party.

Lol XO Emma, So there you have it.

Men in her DMS she's gay.

Hey, it's right there on a fake cake.

I'm sorry to those man's congrats Emma.

Oh and Alex and Mesh.

Gotta say thank you for the surprise birthday wishes you dropped into yesterday's episode.

It was both sweet and snarky, which is basically my whole personality.

You get me, you really get me, and I will have you know.

At my birthday party, I drank a shot of milort hit a slow Moo dance move, ripped off several shirts a la Brandy Chastain because we had a different costume for each stop after all, and I basically live stream the party with all the photos and videos I took.

I even did the splits well dressed as a Christmas pickle, So the only thing missing is the Sam Carr backflip.

Guess I have something to train for ahead of next year's birthday.

Now it's your turn, y'all, rate and review.

Thanks for listening, See you tomorrow.

Good Game Page, Good game, Emma.

You heat delays.

I'm worried We're gonna have more and more of those in the years to come.

Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.

You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones.

Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutder.

Our editors are Emily Rutterer, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and Gianna Palmer.

Our associate producer is Lucy Jones.

Production assistance from Avery Loftus and I'm your Host Sarah Spain