If you want to become a network engineer in 2026, here's the part that nobody's telling you about.

We still have an obligation to the business and and more more times than not, depending on your role, you're either going to be a strictly, strictly technical person or you're going to act as a liaison per SE.

Today's episode is going to be a complete reality check in the best way possible.

Everybody wants to jump 5678 steps with people don't and it's the status, you know, look, I'm not trying to insulting, but like the network a wordy.

How do you think everything connects right like those AI servers and all those specific, you know, AI or genetic database like how do you think that all connects?

I'm joined by Gerard Cavalinus, someone who's lived every side of the industry.

Help desk, cabling, system admin, networking, cybersecurity, all of it, and the road map he lays out in this episode.

Honestly, this is the blueprint I wish I had when I first started.

We get into the hard truth about why beginners are struggling, what software and networking skills actually matter in 2026, and why soft skills might be still the thing that separates the pros from everyone else trying to get a job.

And also we tackle how AI is changing the field without replacing all the people in it.

That's a secret.

I don't have some magic trick or I don't have a magic pill to just take it and all my problems are solved.

No, it's just, it's just, we have to.

If you're feeling overwhelmed, confused, or just trying to figure out where to even start in this industry, this conversation with Gerard is exactly what you need.

Let's dive into it.

Thank you for taking the time to hop on and join us today.

Do you mind taking a few minutes and kind of telling everyone who you are and what you do for a living?

The pleasure is all mine.

We haven't done this since Cisco live and we gotta we gotta do this way more often that.

Wasn't even last year's.

That wasn't even last year's Cisco Live.

That was two years ago.

That's what I'm saying and, and, and I feel like that episode I, I still to this day, and I appreciate you giving me the same opportunity then as you've given me now.

It, it reached so many people.

I got so many emails and people following up like, Hey, your episode really like introduced me.

I just had somebody connect with me on LinkedIn last Friday was like, hey, I watched your episode of the you know, the bearded IT dad of and you guys were discussing everything and it was awesome.

So like, seriously, thank you for the opportunity.

But we got to do this more often.

Life, life just keeps lifing and getting in the way brother.

I hear ya.

But for those that know me, those that don't know me, I am Gerard Cavalinis.

I'm the founder of Tech House 57-O We make.

I'm one of many IT content creators in this spectacular and fabulous community.

I'm also a full time network and security engineer for Aqueduct Technologies.

We're an MSP.

We manage a ton of clients so I have many years of experience starting from help desk, IT administrator, system admin, network and systems engineer, you name it, I've done it.

Jack of all trades master and none can be found wherever books are sold, so super happy to be here.

Awesome and thank you again.

If you guys really if you want to check out the interview we did at Cisco live, you know, going more into your story and how you got broke into, you know, the industry.

I'll make sure and link it down in the description below.

It was an amazing episode and I wanted to dive right into the meat and potatoes of why we're here today.

You know you you've been in networking for some time now.

What is?

What is one thing that you wish you learned early on and you know that you wish someone would told you from day one?

Well, I could tell you as someone who's still trying to so I think about a little bit for COVID hit right.

And and to be fair, between everything going on, I haven't I've I've been a bad kid, I've been a bad guy.

I've been neglected a little bit.

But one, one thing, you know, in my years of experience and still growing that I'm still getting stronger with this network automation, that's number one.

Network automation has been something I've been dabbling in, you know, to add to my arsenal the last few years on and off.

But it's something that if again, if I had knew that automation and AI more so was going to take off the way it was, I definitely think that would be one more area I would have focused on a little bit heavier.

But obviously, like I tell everybody numero Uno, before you start using all the cool words and AI and agentic AI and automation and cybersecurity, and I want to do this, you have to learn the fundamentals, right?

It doesn't, I'm not saying enough to take a help desk job or take a wiring.

You have to have a ground foundation, a solid baseline foundation of technology and IT as a whole.

So you could build upon that and tell a story, right?

And I'll give you an example has has, you know, Dakota said, watch that initial episode.

It's great.

But the short of the long story is that I started doing help desk and the reason I did that is in the beginning, I just love fixing computers, growing my skills, so on and so forth.

What I didn't realize was years later, how that would be so pivotal and so important to me to help guide me to all these other roles, right?

Like being a System Administrator, learning the server side, learning the backup side there each layer.

So then from that, the end user who turns on that machine or connects that device to the network, to the network layer there and troubleshooting there and everything in between, you have a more thorough understanding and it makes you become a way stronger IT professional, in my opinion, or engineer or whatever role you, you know, you may want to do today.

It's very common.

We're seeing people just jump those, you know, 5-6 steps.

I think they don't, you know, want to maybe necessarily learn the skills, but maybe they might have access to the resources, but you can't take shortcuts.

The shortcuts are only going to lead you right down in the sewer.

So it's just, it's absolutely that's it.

You just got to, you got to stay with it, stay, learn the foundation pieces and then grow from there.

The second thing that I would say and part of my part of my French, but if I could go back and learn is cloud networking because even today I am fucking weak in cloud networking.

Like I, like I know of it, you know, AWS, Azure, but like my strengths in it or like, you know, that's just one of those things where I will, you'll never hear me say I'm an expert at cloud networking.

And it was really cool because I'm sure as most of the community knows, Megaport had a really awesome event just about a week or so ago.

Lexus was hosting on cloud, cloud networking and it was just spectacular, right?

Like obviously I did the beginner track, but there is, you know, an intermediate and a more advanced level.

But it, it's awesome to really dive in and there are resources out there that are going to help you with learning cloud networking.

But those would be my 2 areas.

If you're just getting into IT, you want to be an engineer systems network.

Those are two areas to definitely focus on because they're going to take you down a multitude of great paths and and really help you grow your skills.

That there is such a powerful answer and let's just keep on going.

You know, you got to learn how to walk before you run.

You have to have a strong foundation, those foundational skills.

You know you have to understand how everything else works so you can understand how they communicate over the network for you.

How did you learn those initial skills?

What did you do to prepare for your first job in the industry?

Yeah, I mean, so fixing imputers was one of those.

I mean, so let's go back a bit, right?

I've told this story, I've recounted it so many times, but it's it's it's the truth.

My ass got in trouble because it's pretty just like my kids.

I wasn't listening.

And when I wasn't listening, I, you know, I had to go down.

I had to clean that basement out.

When I cleaned the basement out, I found 2 old like Pentium machines and I started making this like Franken computer and it was also like a Dell Inspiron, I don't remember, it was like a 5100.

And I just started tinkering right?

Like that's how I really got my first taste of like oh wow, like this is really cool.

And you could build stuff and learning like what the hardware is, the software.

Like I'd get on the computer, learn about all the components and things of that nature.

And then once I built that computer, I remember my mouse saying you know, you could do this for a living and I said I could.

So I found out, you know, a year later I could go to a vocational school, apply the skills I learned, at least I thought I knew.

And then, you know, have an instructor teach me.

And I just grew my career out from there, right?

You know, I, I finished vo tech, finished high school, went to college and I kept taking roles as preferably in retail because retail is a little more flexible, a lot easier.

Plus fun note, I use those jobs as like my paid internships.

So I was actually nice getting paid.

And then, you know, work for Geek Squad and Circuit City and all those places.

And then in those roles, it's just you have to stay hungry, right?

Like I've always told people, you got to stay hungry.

You can never be complacent in any industry, but especially in IT.

It's changing.

You got to be, you know, with it.

And one thing I did was I had to redo the network drops at one of my, you know, jobs I was at and I remember doing that.

And then that way I was really learning how to make Ethernet cables, how to get better at it, how to get faster, what a switch was, what a hub was, what a router was like.

That's where that's a really piqued my interest in the networking.

And I also fun fact, I tried programming while I was in college for my associates sucked.

I was terrible at it.

Kudos to coders, programmers, and this was prefer like by coding and all of that.

Like this was just full on like JavaScript, C++.

Like I couldn't, I just didn't.

I needed to physically be touching the, the hardware troubleshooting.

So that's where really my love of networking just grew.

And then each role, as I, as I said, you know, earlier, previously, it just gave me that opportunity, right?

Like we're from help desk did the, you know, it administrator role, which was like a Jack of all trades.

And then I got into being a network technician running cables like, like, and that was still we were doing, you know, we had the punch downs and, you know, the lacrosse connects and having to trace everything out.

Like each one of those roles gave me another layer and a foundation to the point where I'm at now has a network and security engineer.

You know, I'm fortunate that I know I get to bring all those years of experience to the table, but also in a leadership role, right, Because I've been on more than just a technical stuff.

I've been, you know, the guy who's green behind the ears and who kind of, you know, messes a cable run up.

But you get your your slap in the head and someone's like, OK, here, here we go.

Let's let's try this again, right.

But it not in a not in a derogatory negative way, but in a way where you can grow, you know, because I think that was also one of the things too that no, not a lot of people talk about.

Some of us know like we're old school brother, but a lot of people don't know, you know, there was a lot of safeguarding that used to happen in IT because like older SIS admins, no offense to anybody, but that's what it was.

They did not want to share those skills.

They didn't want to because they're like, well, you're not going to be better than me and take my job and.

It used to be.

Yeah, it used to be.

Super gatekeepy, you know, And it was rough back in the day, especially like the early days.

You know, you couldn't just go on to a forum and ask questions, you know, You get, you know, people telling you to go read the manual in a lot.

Not a lot less.

Nicer of a way too.

That's that's for no lack of better term.

And again, there wasn't an there was the community like we have to like there wasn't Google, like there was a Myspace, there wasn't all that stuff.

So, you know, I always promised like, and that's a muscle big part of why I started to content years ago and so on and so forth is that I always said that if I, you know, if I'm fortunate, bless, I'm going to get that level.

I'm not going to do that.

And I don't, you know, that's why when I get opportunities to sit with my friends and I'm also seasoned pros like you, brother, like we're here to share this, you know, like this knowledge that's, that's in there, you know, it's it, what are we going to do with it?

You know, we're going to retire one day.

Like I'd rather the next generation of network engineers and IT professionals or people trying to get into IT, or even just those who want better, you know, study habits, skill habits, life habits.

Like I want to help them and just pour out that knowledge to them because like I said, we can't take it with us.

So that's that's, that's really important.

You know, I was just at a seminar this week and that was one topic and, you know, we brought up in one group discussion is that, you know, we have all this tribal knowledge, all this, this knowledge that is leaving the workforce.

You know, people are retiring.

They're, you know, either going after different jobs, you know, things change, but I feel like networking really hasn't had that strong push in a long time.

You know, everyone wants to be into cybersecurity, everyone wants to get into AI, but I feel like the days of the cool, sexy network engineer are gone.

And we're going to, I've, I really feel that we're going to come up to a big dilemma because let's be honest, how do all those AI servers connect over a network?

The, the need for network engineers, I feel is going to grow exponentially over the next couple of years.

And I feel like we probably don't necessarily have the workforce to fill those vacant jobs.

Well, brother, that's, that's, that's why we, we got to do the thing because we'll always make it cool and sexy, you know?

But no, but, but all the jokes aside, like, yeah.

And that's a big thing.

And it goes back to what we were saying, you know, before we, we were getting into this.

Is that everybody wants to jump 5678 steps.

What people don't and it's to say this, you know, look, I'm not trying to insulting but like the network, where do you how do you think everything connects right?

Like those AI servers and all those specific, you know, AI or genetic database like how do you think that all connects through the network everything runs through the network in one capacity or another and everything in between.

That's never going to change.

I think I think the biggest thing and having such strong people like myself, you, you know, Kevin Alexis and our network engineering, like all these different contract creators and also more importantly, seasoned IT professionals in their own respective right in regard.

They share those knowledge and insight in different ways.

But the end, the end goal is still the same, right?

Because network engineering is awesome and there may not be as many network engineers, but people still need to have those foundational skills.

You know, early in my career I used to measure my value by how quickly I could put out fires.

You know, be the hero, restore the Wi-Fi, chase the ISPs, you name it.

But over time I really started to realize that careers move faster when you spend less time troubleshooting and hurting vendors and on the phone with support and more time building systems, automations, standardizing configs, clean, change windows, the stuff that scales.

That's why Meter fits for me.

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Thanks to Meter for sponsoring this episode.

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That is METE r.com IT Career to book a demo.

Now let's dive back into this weeks episode.

Right.

You need to know where the cabling is.

You need to know if it's a layer one, layer 2 issue.

You need to you need to understand you could just be a cybersecurity analysts driving a Maserati like it doesn't work like that.

And I know, you know, for I know about show my age here, but those who remember hackers, you know, everybody wanted to hack the planet.

But again, I, I look, I was one of them.

I wanted to be 0 Cool, OK, I was, you know, I wanted to hack, but the reality was is like everything they were doing was over the network.

I didn't learn that until years later, like once I really started getting into this.

So I think again, just like everything else, like getting those soft skills, getting the experiences all well and good and you can achieve those roles, but you need to understand first how it all processes and it goes through the network, so.

Absolutely.

And, you know, and while the the networking field and what a network engineer is, does is constantly evolving and you know, again, you know, there there's always, you know, not to kind of beat on my own drum or, you know, beat a dead horse, whatever phrase you want to say.

But you know, AI is changing things every single day.

And while it's not, I don't feel like it's going to be taking jobs, it's going to change the jobs we have.

The network engineer of today looks totally different than five years ago.

You know, the technology is constantly evolving and you have to continue to learn and evolve with it as the industry evolves.

And I want to ask you, what is one thing you feel people get wrong about what network engineers actually do today versus, you know, what the the thought of what we do?

So I think one of the things that's really, and it's funny because you see a lot of like memes and stuff about it.

It's like what my mom thinks I do, what my sister thinks I do, and then what I actually do.

I think most people today think being a network engineer is like locking down the world from Skynet in a, in a, in a roundabout, like joking way, right?

Like, you know, we have such a high level, but the truth of the matter is, is why we still work at that high level.

We also still have to deal with a lot of the monotonous day-to-day stuff that everyone else does, right?

Some technical, some not.

We still have to schedule those conference calls, draft change management and reason for change tickets.

We have to make sure all the stars are aligned.

We have to make sure proper precautions are taken care of.

But I think more so from a technical perspective, I think that, yeah, it's generally changed, right?

Like a lot of people still think, you know, you have to go in and, you know, console into each, switch your router and firewall and configure everything.

And it's not.

That goes back to the automation piece.

And I think it's incredible with Ansible, Python, you know, the, the, the insane amount of scaling that you can do.

And I think it's really cool, especially with like SD Wan architecture and things of that nature.

It's what we're capable to do is to be able to scale like that.

We'll be able to scale in an instance and kind of change how many routers or if we need, you know, an additional like two or three layer 3 switches in there to kind of, or, or just even, you know, reconfiguring how, how we set up redundancy.

Like there's just a multitude of ways with the technology we have on how we could scale businesses and and really large or medium sized organizations.

But a few years ago you could still scale, but it took a lot more, you know, elbow grease and it took a lot more foot power and manpower to do that.

So it's really cool to see how that's changed.

But I think overall the general feel is that network engineering is is is less manpower, more automated.

And as long as we leverage those tools, that's also a big consensus out consensus outside of automation is like, well, yeah, it's going to take our jobs.

It's not it's here to leverage what we're already doing and to make that technology better.

It's to try to make things even more 0 air proof, if that makes sense.

No one 100% and you know, I but I want to dive into like the actual skills that you feel that's going to start moving the kneel for people that are looking to break in.

And in your opinion, like if you were to look at your career growth just over the last few years, what skills, you know, technical or maybe not technical, have made the biggest difference in where you are today?

Well, I could say #1 technically, as I said, network automation is one of the many things I'm still adding to my arsenal of tools, right?

Like I'm pretty, I'm OK at it, but I'm not as strong as I want to be.

So definitely going into 2026, that's at the top of my list.

Cloud networking has, I said I have a OK, I'm out of experience, like pretty, you know, bare bones, but I don't not enough to even remotely begin to say I'm an expert.

So that's one area that we're seeing constant growth.

Another thing that I would tell people outside of the technical arena is that, you know, having soft skills and more show and more.

So developing strong leadership qualities is important, right?

You may not be a team lead, you may not be, you know, you may not have that title, but you still need to be a pivotal point because at the end of the day, too, most people don't realize outside of the whatever your IT, you know, job and role and responsibility is, we still have an obligation to the business.

And, and more, more times than not, depending on your rule, you're either going to be a strictly, strictly technical person or you're going to act as a liaison per SE, right?

So you're going to be that, that liaison between the tech side of the business side.

And you need to be able to kind of take those technical problems and or issues that, you know, we're going to face that on.

But you need to be able to kind of reword those and restructure that for the business side of the house so they understand how urgent the needs are and more So what those needs are.

So I would say.

Automation, cloud networking 100% must and non-technical, I would definitely say having strong soft skills and leadership qualities because those are just things you're not seeing.

Again, I don't think it's it's, it's a direct, you know, reflection of everybody.

I know some some look some people at the end of the day, we have introverts, extroverts, everybody has different personality type.

But I think in those roles, when you face those technical challenges head on, they're going to, they're going to life's going to, you know, really challenge you.

It's going to kick you in the ass and you're going to you're going to rise, you're going to fall.

If you can rise above it, that's that's what you want to strive for, because not only that, you take something away from that and you have something to contribute for it, not just to yourself, but more so your team.

So those would be the four things I would say just in general for any IT professional, especially network engineers going into you know the next year and if four were to really focus on.

You know, that is great.

And you know, one thing that gets brought up time and time again when people are looking to break into the industry is certifications.

And certifications definitely play a big role in networking.

You know, talking from experience.

You know, back in high school I actually took the Cisco CCNA certification.

And yeah.

Yeah.

And then later on, you know, I've, I've taken numerous other certifications in my career, but I also feel like there's people put too much weight sometimes on certifications and not so much on the other skills evolved.

And you know, one thing you mentioned is soft skills.

Soft skills play a huge role.

But before we really dive into like what certifications you should consider, I want to still dive a little bit more into like certifications just make up the small piece of the pie, you know, a small piece of the puzzle.

Let's, let's, let's fill in the gaps.

What else do you need other than certifications before you start applying for jobs?

So one thing that I would say is before we start and I, and I'm going to borrow a line that a great friend of mine, he's still a colleague of mine, told me he's like, right.

Listen, at the end of the day, you know, I have my CCIE and don't get me wrong, it is a huge milestone as a huge accomplishment and achievement in in my life.

But you know, it's not the end all be all in the sense that when I die, you know, it's could get put on my gravestone.

You know what?

There's some hardcore CCI.

ES out there don't.

Get me right?

Don't, don't, don't get me wrong, you know, it is an astronaut, but it's just shit, shit.

When he said that to me, I was like, well, when I get one, I'll probably go.

I put it on everything.

That's just me though.

But you know what?

Like shoot, being serious, like I think that's the biggest thing.

I've look, I've been in roles where certifications are here's here's how I can, I'm thinking how to wear this certifications, while they 200,000% are are, you know, astronomically important in your career and you're more so professional growth.

They're not the end all be all.

They're not going to decide how great of a network or or systems or whatever engineer you are, right, Like you can put stock into those certifications and it is very vital and important.

Like it's a it's a test like anything else.

But there have been times and I'm not going to, but I've had rules.

I've had, you know, places in, in now where I'm at now.

Now I've, I'm so fortunate because I'm such a great organization, but I've had other places in my career where it's like, well, if you can't pass that, you know, like you're pretty much like, yeah, you know, and if that's not true, and I know there are some places out there like that, but one thing, one thing that's really important is that we need to make sure that we don't devalue what an engineer does in the skill set or their knowledge.

Look, you could be a solid, phenomenal technical asset to any organization and be a really crappy test taker that that's OK.

I'm a horrible test taker, but I'm a great engineer.

So you have to take that and look, you get get knocked off the horse, you got to get back on.

And that's how that persistency is what's going to help you pass.

But that's just one thing I want to because there are a lot of places where people like, man, I didn't pass it.

So that makes me a shit engineer or shit.

That's not true at all.

It's not it just it's just some people are stronger in those areas than others.

You are still a phenomenal engineers.

Don't forget that.

But those, those are, those are some of the things that at least in that area, I would focus on.

So again, I've said this multiple times, outside of just soft skills, some of the areas you need to focus on are learn it.

Listen, I, I, I live and die by lab, lab, lab, lab every day has, you know, that our great friend Duan Duan once said, lady, I lab every day.

Duan, you know, he started that movement as the truth.

I live and I live and breathe that that's it.

You know, some people may not have access to gear if they're getting rid of.

And I tell people this all the time, no matter what role you're in #1 be hungry.

So if you know, if you're, you know, a junior analyst or help desk in a help desk role, an individual you know, and you know the network system engineers are going to have some after hours work, ask if you could shadow.

You may not get paid for it, but you are getting paid in knowledge and experience and that's just invaluable.

So #1 take that number two.

More often than not, sometimes if you're lucky, you know, eBay, you can get some really solid steals on, you know, servers, gear, router, switches, firewall.

So more often than not, sometimes after those cutovers, they're getting rid of those right or they've got end of life.

So those are perfect opportunities to be like, Hey, I'll take those that we can get some physical hand on, hands on experience, you know, actually configuring the hardware, setting it up and having maybe your own mini lab CML, great resource.

Also just want to note, I'm not plugging this stuff.

It's just these are the tools that I currently use.

Love CMLCML is so powerful and gives you such incredible resources without having the factual, the the power consumption that you have to worry about, right?

So sometimes maybe a physical lab isn't the best way to go, but you can go with CML and lab out.

A lot of these topologies lab out especially it's great for or, you know, existing engineers.

If you're doing build outs within your customers environment, you want to have like a, a mini proof of concept, if you will, and then you kind of test everything out, fail stuff over.

You could see how it all works before you actually deploy it in real time.

The second thing though, I, I would definitely say is when you're building your resume and, and there's a way you could wear this, you know, obviously you're not going to put, I have a home lab on my, on my resume.

I don't, I don't think it would cut it.

But if you put like, you know, if you word it a little more professionally, like I, I designed, you know, a small home network and I had this project, you know, if you frame it in a different way, that's also additional experience.

You could, you know, add to your toolbox when you're trying to go and apply for these roles or if you're in an existing entry level role, that's the kind of stuff that's going to help you get to the next level.

But outside of labbing and and and staying hungry, I tell everybody you got to be focused.

You got to bring it, you got to go ahead and you have to have that that will in that drive and desire to want to move to the next level or you're going to be stuck where you're at.

Let's circle back around to the certification side of the equation because, you know, I, I just think it is, it is so useful and can you don't need certifications to break into this industry whatsoever, but they do help open drawers.

And one thing before we start talking about certifications, I want to clear up some misconceptions a lot of people have on them.

A lot of people think if they get a certification, that's all they need to land a job.

And what we've already talked about is no, that is not, that is not the end all be all.

That does not get you the job.

What certifications help do is prove that you actually know the knowledge that you're saying you know on your resume.

And they help open up the door to potential interviews.

That is what certifications I think really do for people is they open up the door to get your get you into that interview.

Once you're in that interview, it is up to you to prove it to that hiring manager or that panel interview, all those people that you actually know what you think, what you're saying, you know, that you actually have the drive to learn things because it's not always about the hard skills.

Let's be honest, you know, you, you've mentioned soft fields.

We've already touched on that several times.

I I can tell you that most of the jobs I've applied for and gotten, I was never the most qualified candidate.

You know, I was actually probably sometimes the least qualified candidate.

But let me ask you, let me ask you real quick on that.

I mean, what, what do you feel years later going into specific roles and things and those interviews you went to the interview, gave 200% and he walked away, got the job or whatever may happen.

What do you think?

If I could turn the tables, what do you think it was that made was a differentiator in you getting that role outside of your peers?

I can tell you because I straight up asked the hiring manager.

I asked my manager, why did you pick me?

I know I wasn't the most qualified person and in my current role, I'm a director of network operations for an ISP and I got hired on as a Noctech and I asked them why did you pick me and he's told me you weren't the most qualified candidate.

We had people with college educations with bachelors degrees.

We had one person that was upset that they didn't get the job because they didn't think there is anyone more qualified for the position than them.

The reason I chose you is because I could see you had that drive, that determination.

I could see you had those people skills and that you would be a good fit with the team.

I can teach you all the skills, everything you need to learn.

I can't teach you how to be a good team player, how to work well with others.

You know, and especially when you're going for a small organization, you really have to think about those things.

You know, a larger organization, they, I might focus more on the technical skills than the soft skills because you tend to be, I don't want to say more replaceable, but you're, you're, you're a smaller piece of the puzzle.

When you go for jobs at those smaller organizations where you're more than likely going to be wearing more than one hat, having to work with more than one team, do multiple things, that makes a pretty big difference.

And both of the jobs they, they called that out.

And then, you know, again, I, I, I showed my drive, I showed my passion, I talked about my home labs and I even have a story about an interview I went to, we can dive into really quick.

Where I went for my very first job in the tech industry was an IT support specialist.

In my first interview, I asked at the my, you know, you know, how they wrap it up.

They're like, is there any, you know, any questions you have for us?

And I said yes.

Is there anything I can do between now and potentially the next step or the next time we meet that would make me a more eligible candidate?

Yeah, I hope.

Everybody's listening.

These are some serious tips because like, you just hit the nail right on the head.

That's awesome.

And the hiring manager said, actually, yes.

So we use a lot of Cisco Meraki gear and Syscam Rocky has a deal right now.

They don't do this anymore, but they used to where if you attend one of their webinars and sign up, they will actually send you a free piece of equipment with a license and everything to use it.

So I didn't even leave the parking lot and I went and signed up for as many pieces of equipment as I could.

I got a firewall, I got a switch, I got an AP and I attended those webinars, learned what I need to learn.

They sent me the hardware and you know, it all arrives and a few weeks after that I actually got a call for another interview.

So I go for the interview and the first thing, as soon as we sit down, I say, hey, I just wanted to let you know, I actually went out and got all that CISCOM Rocky gear and I have my whole home network running through it.

I've actually learned how it all works.

I've configured it.

I've integrated into my home lab and like I could tell like right then and there, like no one else that he talked to had gone and done this and like that was like.

Cuz you're hungry, right?

Yeah, you're hungry.

So showing that, you know, you don't wanna come off cocky, you don't wanna come off overconfident, but showing that willingness to learn, that hunger, it goes a long way.

And I'm going to hop off my soapbox and give you a chance to talk.

Here, No, no, listen, I but that's what it is.

Humility goes a long way.

And everything you just talked to me is just, it was just, it was just a neat little bowl around everything that I've been saying, right, like, because at the end of the day, you could be and look, and it's not, I will not knocking on anybody with there's the reason there's introverts, extroverts, everybody has a different personality type, right?

It's OK, But that's why certain roles are better.

Like if you want to challenge yourself and you want to push yourself, if you're not a strong talker, I'm not saying you can go in front of, you know, fifty 100,000 people, but it, it, it doesn't matter how technically astute you are.

If you can't have a basic level conversation.

It's hard for some people.

I get that.

And there's, there's ways to do that.

There's like, you know, talking techniques and videos and it's just you have to be willing to step in more so jump outside of your comfort zone and just you got to dive right in.

And once you do that, then eventually over time, you know, it's like a sink or swim, but mentally, you know, and I feel like a majority, if not all the people that work in this industry have a strong will strong.

You know, good head on their shoulders.

That's what it is.

You have to take that first jump.

But once you take it, don't look back, You know, you go forward, take a deep breath.

Once you have that first conversation, that'll lead to the next one and the next one and the next one, and then eventually just starts becoming second nature.

Because I think a lot of things too, as it goes to confidence in our mental health, which that's a whole other thing.

But mental health is important.

You got to, you know, don't beat up on yourself.

It goes back for the certification thing.

Listen, at the end of the day, shit happens.

We're going to fail, but it's it's what do you do after the failure?

That's what really helps us like, determine like what we're going to do next.

And you know, I want to get back to the certification talk because I kept on saying that we're going to dive into it.

And I just want to ask you.

So for someone starting out, let's say they have very basic next to no skills and they want a certification to start studying.

What is the certification you are telling them to go get?

See, So what it you, what it used to be for me is a few years back, if you were to ask me that same question, I would have said no, mind you, mind you, I'm stepping back.

I am someone I have like the legacy A+, right?

Like I remember 1 and it goes back to that initial point, and I'm not going to go too much into it was when I started fixing computers and getting in.

I started going to VO tech and they're like, well, one of the big things, among other is outside of just the technical stuff, right?

You need to be able to differentiate yourself.

What makes you stand out from your other competitors or your peers interviewing.

So having that certification, it didn't matter.

That was the A plus.

That mentality reigns supreme even today, right?

Whether it's a CCNACCMP, like if you have 20 network engineers and 10 of them have the CCMP, it's pretty clear who's going to stand out.

That will always be the one thing that can kind of pry that wedge and, and get your foot in the door first, right?

So that mentality stayed with me when I got the A+.

Then obviously gradually as I went on getting more certs and learning and growing and things of that nature, that helps too, because experience was was was was king.

But back then, if you know, if you're someone and you're looking to, let's say, get into network engineering, the first thing I would say was the net plus was always the way to go.

And then followed with the CCNA because CCNA gives you a more deeper, broader scope of topics where now today, you know, I'm not going to lie, I would tell you right out of the gate, you know, go for the CCNN.

Because the CCNN will not only cover what the net plus covers, but it also gives you such a broader and deeper richer scope of not just not only those topics, but again, now that the version was updated, I think it was just a couple months ago, you know, you're still talking about AI automation tools, everything that we've been talking, you know, and touch a base on, right?

So you're going to learn, you're not going to get a full deep dive and overview.

You're going to get, okay, what's a little bit of automation automation, right?

With Jason and Puppet and Ansible and Chef and all these different tools, you get like a taste of it.

I guess someone, I don't know who said it, it was not one of the CCNA snack snack bites.

I think it was that Cisco has when someone said it best.

The CCNA is like the Chu Chu re board of of of networking.

You know, you get a little a sample of everything and then from there you really get a, a better basic understanding of what really, you know, for some people like what are your stronger areas?

What is something you maybe want to become a specialist then?

So I would definitely say 100% CCNA is the way to go.

My opinion?

You know, and my, my opinion is very similar to that, but I have two different tracks for people.

I always recommend there's two separate tracks.

There's people who want to dive straight into networking.

They don't want to do help desk, they don't want to do anything else.

And there's people who just want to get a job in tech tomorrow.

Like there's two paths.

So I'm going to go with the path first that for the people who want to get into tech as soon as possible, like they're at that miserable dead end job.

They're they're end of the rope and they need to make a career change fast.

You can jump straight into networking, but that's going to take you a little bit of work.

So for the people who want to make a change fast, you're going to have to start at the help desk.

You know, you're going to have to start at those very entry level jobs.

And for that, the best certification I still think out there is the A+.

Like you said, you know, if you get the A+, that's going to help you fast track your career and jump into that help desk job and then understand it's only a stepping stone.

You're only going to be in the help desk job for a year to two years while you get your CCNA.

While you're in the help desk job, start studying for your CCNA and get ready to pivot into that networking role.

But, and that's and that's the path.

So A+, CCNA and then maybe CCNP as you start to advance your networking career.

Yeah.

Now for the people who want to jump straight into networking that maybe they'll have more time, they want to go for that big dollar jump quicker, Definitely dive straight into the CCNA because in all I see the CCNA is so broad nowadays and it covers, you know, as the certification has evolved, it covers everything you need to know and then some.

In all honesty, for that entry level job, you know, the CCNA is a great entry point.

And so I would definitely recommend dive into the CCNA.

Start labbing, you know, lab every day.

That is such a powerful movement that you know, practicing building a home lab if you can't afford to get your own equipment.

I mean I have a whole video talking about how you can build ACCNA home lab for under 100 bucks.

Packet Tracer still the way to go.

I mean, I know CML like obviously there's paid, you know, there's a free version of CML, but that has a node limit, right?

And then you would obviously have to pay for that.

But even right out of the gate, I, I know a ton of people prior to even me using CML like packet Tracer is ready to go Packetracer so free.

I love packetracer now the obviously, as I said it, it serves its purpose, will help you learn a lot of its apologies, right, like BGPOSPFEIGRP and such.

But I mean, there's also things you can't mimic.

And that's where from a learning perspective, I want to kick it up.

I want to take it to that next level.

I want to learn what if there's a power outage?

What if there's a cabling issue?

Like that's where I want to break stuff more.

But packet tracer for, well, I can't talk packet tracer.

For what it's what it's worth, I love packet tracer.

It's it's still an amazing tool.

And then for the people who are in that entry level job and want to advance CCNP, it is the way to go.

I feel like nowadays the CCNP is what the CCNA used to be, not necessarily in knowledge, but in industry credibility.

You know, back in the day, like when I took the CCNA, if you had ACCNA, there was a like a 90% plus higher rate straight out of the CCNA program.

Like you had people knocking on your door wanting to hire you.

And that's quite not the case because it's got a little bit more over saturated.

But now the CCNP, when you start getting into the CCNP level, you definitely start seeing that.

But I'm gonna preface all of that again with you don't need any of these to get started.

No, start applying for jobs right away.

Don't wait to have your certifications before you start looking for jobs.

These certifications, again, they're gonna help you land those interviews, but they're not necessarily required.

And most employers, if they do require it, they're willing to give you 689 months to get that certification after you've been hired.

And more than likely, they're going to pay for you to get that.

That's what I was just about to say.

If you're fortunate, you're blessed with us and you get the right employer organization.

They have training budgets, right?

They may have a CVT Nugget subscription or they may have, no pun intended, but they may have a subscription to you, to me, CVT Nuggets.

They may be even willing to go as far as depending if they see the hunger and drive that we've been talking about this whole time, they may be like, OK, you know what, we'll pay for that.

You know, a plus exam for you.

We'll pay for your CCNA.

They because I feel like, and those are some of the best companies hands down that give 200% Reinvite.

Yeah.

They reinvest in their employees because they know long term, you know, OK, well, they want to grow and they want to be an asset to our organization or whatever the case may be.

But the ones that have the training budgets, invest in the resources, the time and more so into you into taking those exams, that's game changing.

Like that's not everybody does it.

But if you're if you're lucky to be with an organization that does like ride with it because it's it's, it's key.

It's key to your growth and there's.

Absolutely.

And let's kind of shift things up a little bit.

You know, we've talked about breaking into networking, but let's talk about career growth in the networking field because there's tons of different opportunities that can lead to that.

Networking can lead to.

You can pivot so many different ways.

There's so many different things in networking, but before that, what is one thing that you think has kept you in the networking field so long?

What do you still enjoy about it the most?

The challenge, right?

And even now with what I do, whenever those tickets come in, outside of project work, when tickets come in, listen, at the end of the day, I'm somebody I've always been, says Courtney.

This sounds like one of my favorite books or one of my favorite novels and series of Sherlock Holmes, right?

I love Sherlock Holmes.

I've always been a Sherlock Holmes for those that I don't think I've ever told anybody that, but I love Sherlock Holmes was not just the character and the stories, but it was the challenges, the puzzle, right?

Like I need to keep my mind active and sharp and that constant thirst that needs to be quenched to learn and grow more in any role I take, especially the one I'm in now.

But anytime that ticket comes in and he gets that refresh, like that's an opportunity to figure out, OK, well, what's going on?

And when I can just sit down zone in, right?

That's what I called the zone.

I just lock in laser focused and I'm on it right, like I will troubleshoot that until the end of time.

I'll troubleshoot that right to hell, but we'll get it fixed.

Like I'll figure out or, you know, packet loss or we can't figure out.

I'm going to figure out how packet yay needs to go from this switch to packet B on the other side, like we're going to figure out how to route it and and get it to that destination.

Like I need the challenge.

And I think that's again goes back to a testament of my career and other people's, you know, successes is got to be hungry.

So I'm always that's what keeps me in networking.

Is it what's evolving?

And there's always a challenge out there.

And when you think you're done, Challenge is still out there, you just got to find it.

You know, and I don't want to sound like a broken record, but this industry is evolving so fast.

You have to constantly be learning.

If you don't, I mean, to be 100% honest here, if you don't enjoy constantly learning, learning new skills, evolving your skills, this might not be the best field for you.

I, I, I hate to say it because it changes so fast and so rapidly, you know, if you just stay, you know, if you stop and become stagnant, you're going to get left behind.

And that's how people end up, you know, losing jobs.

And they say, oh, you know, AI is taking jobs.

AI is not taking the jobs of people who are willing to learn and utilize it as a tool.

AI is taking the jobs of people who are resisting change and don't want to evolve with the industry because this industry has not stopped evolving since day one.

No, and I think, you know, obviously there's a lot of stuff.

I'm, I was just fortunate actually, I'm like, I can't speak to it, but there was a lot of cool stuff I saw recently like the Champs we had like, you know, some of those sessions.

And it's just all I got to say is it goes back to my initial point circle back to .1 is not here to hurt us.

AI is here to be able to take all the experience, all the tools that we currently use.

How can we make it better?

Because there's still room for improvement, right?

There is still such a thing as a margin for human error.

It still happens even when doing a network automation script, which is the irony, right?

Because network automation was to help with eliminating the human error.

Like, oh, I forgot to, you know, put the slow, put this line of code or put this line in the configuration before I hit right, ma'am.

Like human error still exists.

It even exists in automation, but it's getting better and better and better every day.

So I think the proof isn't, look, I've said this too about automation, but now I'm saying the same thing about AI.

It's just like copy and paste.

It's that there is such a what I had, it was a stigma behind because people, though people are afraid of something that they don't understand.

I get it.

AI to me when I hear AII was thinking about like the 80s and 90s shows, you know, like, oh, AI flying cars in 2035.

But the reality is, is now we're seeing what AI could do.

Some of it's really cool, some of it's scary, some of it's obnoxious and just shouldn't be and and shouldn't be done right.

You have all that stuff in between.

But again, how we leverage AI and also look our attack vectors and and again, this is the security engineering me like the way AI, it's just like everything else.

There's the good side of it and then there's the not so good side of it.

The way we're leveraging AI for attacks, like AI based attacks are actually are, are just it's on an all time high.

And some of the stuff it's doing, it is we haven't even scratched the surface of it is terrifying, but the capabilities are there.

It's just a matter of like everything else, how are we going to leverage that tool?

So I feel if we leverage it the right way and in the most appropriate manner, then like as I said, it's not going to take our jobs.

It's just there to help us, not hinder us.

Absolutely.

And you know, looking forward to the future, what do you think the networking world's going to look like over like the next five years?

You know, like 5 years from now, what do you think you know a network engineer is going to be doing?

I don't know, maybe working on a yacht because maybe we'll be able to all retire, but I don't know.

But you know, I think that, you know, eventually more and more, especially with like, as I said, cloud networking, I feel like I hopefully not because I'm just somebody who I love my I love being able to physically touch the hardware.

And I think it'll always be there because there's always going to be some type of like hardware backbone in the infrastructure that's needed.

But I feel like we're going to see more, a lot more cloud based deployments.

I feel like, you know, having off premises deployments and you're going to see less, you know, physical network infrastructure in the data centers.

Hopefully.

I'm not saying it's all gone because again, I love a good, you know, picture of infrastructure.

I love troubleshooting.

I love look at the cables.

I'm just, I need that, right?

But I think eventually more and more you're going to see less firewalls, less switches, the number of APS are going to go down, like a lot more cloudless software based deployments are going to be.

And I mean, we're, we're seeing it now, but there's still some type of hardware footprint, right?

But I feel eventually more and more as we gradually progress along, I mean, I think the hardware footprints not going to ever fully go away, but it will be drastically pulled back from what it has been today and what it used to be 1520 years ago.

Interesting that's that.

That is an interesting take.

That's that's my, that's my take on.

And now was that going to happen?

Who knows?

You know, I hope not because I love again, I feel like the hardware's always going to be there, but I feel you're definitely going to see a drastic up tick in more just as I said, software based deployments and cloud based deployments.

Because a lot of companies too, depending on the size, again, whether they were small or even teetering on a medium sized business, they they, they want to have less of a hardware footprint, you know, and that's just going to go into a whole other thing.

And I could talk your ear off, but it, it goes into, you know, they want to have as less physical of a footprint as possible and more of a digital one where it's kind of like hands off, seamless.

Everything's running through the cloud.

Azure backups are running like everything, the whole 9 yards, you know, So we're seeing it now, but I think there's going to be an uptick in the next few years or so even further.

You know, you, you've given us so much wonderful information in this episode.

And again, thank you for coming on the channel and sharing all this.

You know, we talked about.

Pleasure's all mine.

I have fun every time.

We get to kick it, man.

But we got to do this.

Listen, I think we got to do it.

Maybe this year at Cisco Live, we got to do some a little.

Well, we'll do this again.

Absolutely.

You know, we, we've talked about building home labs, we've talked about, you know, certifications, you know, getting your CCNA, We've talked about a whole bunch of things.

But you know, I'm curious, you know, that's a lot of stuff to take in for someone who's wanting to make the break into the field.

What would you tell someone who feels a little overwhelmed about how much there is to learn in networking?

The same thing that I tell my children and the same thing I tell my wife when they get overwhelmed.

I said if an elephant was food, right?

And this is gonna sound, but that's old saying if, if you have an elephant right, you're not gonna eat the whole elephant in one sitting.

You have to take things in chunks.

I'm probably messing this up, by the way, y'all, And that's OK.

That's OK.

But it's still, it's the mentality that the the elephant is, is the metaphorical there's, there's a lot of stuff, right?

You just have to take things in stride and you have to take things in chunks one by one.

You're not you're not gonna get through it all right away.

Don't overwhelm because it's easy to get overwhelmed.

Not just an IT, but in life.

Take it one thing at a time.

Map out a plan.

That's what I tell anybody to do, right?

Whether you I have like a digital Trello board like a Cambian board or some people have a physical one.

Just you don't even need all that.

Just get a notebook.

I want to get an IT.

OK, map out like a 306090 day plan.

Like how do you want to achieve this?

OK, I want to be doing this.

I want to be in this role to get to that, I might need to study this exam and pass the certification.

Then get the job, right?

Like that's step one and two, let's just say you start there and then from there, once you do that, add two more steps.

OK, well, now I got the job.

Now I failed this exam, I'm going to reschedule it.

And then more out, more out.

More likely than not, you're going to take it.

You're going to pass it.

All right, I got that.

Now I'm in the role, I've got the certification.

Let's plan out steps 3-4 and if we were lucky, maybe even 5.

You know, if you take things in stride and you take them in bits and achieve them and accomplish them one thing at a time and then check them off, you won't get overwhelmed.

If you're trying to do 50 things at once, it's not going to happen.

It's just not, you know, the best way I could put it as a colleague of mine had just told me, you know, being counterproductive is productivity's worst enemy.

I think there's something a lot of those lines, but I mean, pretty much it goes that if you're running in circles, you're not, you're not going to get anything accomplished is what it really boils down to.

You're not going to achieve anything that you want to and you're going to be worried about 15 other things when you should only be worried about trying to get step one done.

So take it in stride chunks, break up your goals and then just again, start with one or two goals at a time.

Once you achieve them, then work on another two, Achieve those that we're going to let you.

And if you get into a rhythm routine, we could take on a little bit more than do that.

But don't, don't overwhelm yourself because at the end of the day too, I could be here forever talking about it.

Listen, I tell everybody, I'm very blessed and unfortunate.

I have a big family.

I'm studying for certifications actively.

I make content, I work full time.

It's a lot, but I do it in balance because at the end of the day, that's a secret.

I don't have some magic trick or I don't have a magic pill to just take and all my problems are solved.

No, it's just, it's just we have to take it in stride.

You know, when you have to also take care of your mental health.

You can't spend 24/7 staring at why Wi-Fi 7 isn't, you know, a struck.

You have to take a break, go play with, you know, go spend time with your kids, spend time with your loved ones, you know, read a book, watch a movie, like engage in life and engage with others.

So you have to take everything in stride and with balance.

That's what I would leave and tell everybody.

Those are such great words of wisdom.

You know it, it's difficult.

You know, it's, it is definitely overwhelming and it's, it's a lot.

You have to make sacrifices whenever you do something big like this with in life in general, whether you're making a career change, you're making life changes.

It takes a lot to do it.

And I'm a big proponent of trying to build some healthy habits.

You know, one thing I did is when I decided I want to make the career change is I set up a study schedule and I, I put on a calendar where everyone could see it.

So people know, OK, on these nights when dad comes home, he's going to say hi to everyone and then he's going to go study for an hour.

And that's what exactly I do is, you know, I come home, say hi to everyone, pet the dog, pet the kids, kiss the wife, whatever.

And then I would go off into a room and study for at least an hour.

I try to just shoot for an hour.

And I'm, I'm big on, you know, back in the day, I used the Pomodoro method, but I, I focused and studied.

And because otherwise it's too easy just to sit down and turn on the TV and, you know, do other things and push it off, push it off.

And you'll never get anywhere with that.

And find out what works for you.

Schedule it.

Set aside that time to study, build those healthy habits, but also set aside time to do other things.

Don't let it take over everything in your life because that will lead to burnout.

And like, we could have a whole episode of dealing with burnout in the tech industry because it can, it is a real thing.

You know we need to talk.

About that's a whole other thing.

I could be here all day talking to her.

Yeah, you know, because you you you come close to facing it.

I mean, thanks for having but like it's eaters on it, right?

And you need to have that work life balance.

You know it's in for some, you know, it's easier said than done, but believe me, it you got to be mindful.

You got to watch.

I know sometimes it doesn't always work out that way, but you have to be mindful of it for you, not just yourself, but for your own mental health.

You know, as we start to land the plane here, I want to ask you what is the best piece of career advice that you've ever received?

But before you answer that, if people want to follow you, you know, I know you got you're out there on the socials and stuff.

People have more questions for you.

Where can they find you?

They could find me on LinkedIn, they can find me on Twitter.

I'm also on TikTok.

I make a lot of short form and long form content Now.

Should I do that about a year or so ago?

I don't want to be the dinosaur, right?

And I'm just been having fun with that.

I got a lot of new stuff coming out has I, you know, for a lot of people that don't know, and it was as more of a just like a life thing.

This year I was I'm coaching my son.

My oldest son asked me for last like free.

He's like dad coached me in football.

I said absolutely.

So I coached them and I had a blast.

However, I didn't more so anticipate how that would content wise, you know, so I was trying to make maintain that balance.

But now that I'm, you know, back at it, you know, I'm hopefully the community hasn't forgotten me too much.

It's really awesome to be back, get to share my knowledge with y'all.

But I got a lot of new stuff coming out.

I, you know, like I said, moving into the new house, you have a new studio office, so going to reset that up.

I'm doing some more, you know, how to laugh tutorials, which is going to be great because I've always written blogs on a lot of that stuff.

But now I'm going to take that in kind of transverse it into video and short long form content.

So just a lot of cool stuff coming, but I'm on TikTok, you know, LinkedIn, Twitter, wherever books are sold.

You can always reach out to me on my have my e-mail down there as well.

And I'm always around to ask questions anytime there may be a delay these days, I'm a little busy, but I will always get back to anybody.

Anybody ever wants to reach out, Need some help, career advice?

That's what I'm here for.

That's awesome.

I and I really appreciate it.

We'll make sure and link to all those resources down in the description below.

And and you know, I just to repeat the question I asked, you know, do you have that one piece of advice that you wish you would have known when you first started that you think that will help anyone who's looking to make this career change?

The one piece of career advice that I would say is, as I've been saying all this this whole time, you know, stay hungry, you know, stay humble, stay blessed, but stay hungry and stay on top of it.

It is a grind.

But if you keep grinding, like we're all going to make it to the top, we're going to get to where we're going.

You know, things are hard right now out there, not just in the job market, but just everywhere.

So it's a matter of Stan having a positive mentality, taking care of your mind and your physical well-being in yourself.

And then just just like I said, keep grinding, you know, keep studying, put forth that effort, the the payoff coming.

And for those that are actively doing that 200% right now, and they may not feel it, give it time.

You know, the payoff is coming and it it'll be there.

But that would be the biggest piece of, as I say, is to grind, keep moving.

Absolutely.

Again, thank you so much for taking the time and if you guys haven't checked it out, if you want to see the last time we we talked, I'll definitely make sure and link it up here in the the show notes or down in the show notes.

Again, thank you for all all the the wonderful advice.

Thank you for having me brother, always a pleasure.

I'll talk to y'all soon.

Absolutely.

Again, I hope you guys enjoyed this episode and until next time, keep learning.