Prepare yourself for the terror the prison of madness.

We have a few inter and Nonritter.

Welcome to Unsung Horrors with Launce.

And Denica.

Leave all your sanity behind.

It can't help you now.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Unsung Horrors, the podcast where we discuss underseen horror films, specifically those with less than one thousand views on Letterboxed.

I'm Lance, I'm Erica, and I want to first say Happy October.

Erica, Happy October, Lance.

Happy October to all our listeners.

It's a very special time of year for us.

It is we have one thing in particular that's very special.

But before we get to that, the most special thing about October it is the month that the world was graced with the presence of Lance.

Oh and Cody.

Cody's my twin brother.

Yes, if you guys want to send gifts, you can send both of them to me.

So I have Lance's birthday present.

Oh my goodness, here I didn't wrap them.

I'm sorry, No.

This is I've already seen them.

Wow.

The versatile Henry Mancini and his orchestra on the final this is very cool.

Yeah.

Golden Motion Picture themes and the original soundtracks.

Oh my goodness, it's a mad mad world Pink Panther.

This is good.

I don't know how to react on Oh my good get this.

I know that one's like my favorite.

I don't know what you're gonna do with it, but I'm like, you just should have it.

It's a book and record set of Kojak two exciting stories called five Star Final and a Question of Honor?

Is it ready?

It's oh doubt, but this is amazing.

I like it.

It's a huge comic book.

Yeah, it's like I'll put together.

Thank you so much, You're welcome, Happy birthday, Thank.

You coming off guard.

Now, I just want to go home and watch listen to these.

No, we'll do our episode, so thanks for doing that.

But another reason why October is so special, we're doing our annual Horror Gives Back charity Challenge.

This is our six year doing this, Erica, do you want to fill in what Horror Gets Back?

As any new listeners it might be tuning in.

Yeah, So it's our October Charity Film Watching Challenge.

A different category for every day.

So we put a calendar together as inspiration for folks if they want to follow it.

But The general idea behind it is to donate a dollar or more per horror movie that you watch in October.

That can be how many you watch total, That can be how many you watch just for the challenge.

However you want to interpret it, because you know, we play fast and loose with our rules.

I usually do.

Yeah, no, I think we all do for sure.

But also you know, with the categories, so there's you know, ones that can be considered you can interpret broadly, like Hail Satan.

It can be you know, Satan has to be in the title of it, or it just can be about Satan or anything satanic.

We usually have a couple categories that focus on specific actors or directors, like we've got Toby Hooper, an Ingrid Pitt and Lena Rome this year Stelvio Chipriani for our composer category.

So we'll put a link to our fundraiser that we have every year for Best Friends Animal Society, where you can donate directly there, or you can donate to a charity of your choice.

We know we've got some international listeners who participate and it makes more sense for them to donate local.

We totally support that.

We do ask that you share and let us know about that so we can shout you out when we do our recap episode at the beginning of November.

Yeah, it's a.

Really fun challenge I got.

I started very early.

I started like mid September.

Good call, I'm going to be behind.

I mean we're only a few days in October, and you know you can.

You can watch as many films as you want.

You don't have to watch thirty one films.

Yeah, thirty one movies.

And all we ask is that donate to any charity if you can, if you're able to.

Yeah, we know times are tough, so you know, if you can't, that's fine, but you can still participate.

You don't have to donate in order to participate in the challenge.

So we have a great discord of folks who are sharing their letterbox list that they put together and their daily picks.

So great place to jump in, great time to join.

So hope to see you there, and we hope to see more people participating this year.

Yeah for sure.

Yeah, and this discord it's one of the most active times of year for us.

Yeah, so it's always fun to see all the recommendations being shared.

I'm already building up my watch list from what people are posting.

Yeah, I already changed my Lena Rome pick after seeing someone else watch my pick and one start.

I was like, oof, fuh white can White candical Queen.

I was like, I'm changing mind.

I don't want to deal with it.

Yeah, a lot of audibles to be called.

And yeah, so I had Horror Gives Back in my mind when I wanted to pick my October movie for this episode, which is The Phantom of Hollywood from nineteen seventy four.

My pick for this month is also going to be with Horror Gives Back in mind as well.

It fits, it'll fit into multiple categories.

Yeah, this one will fit in the made for TV movie nineteen seventies.

Obviously.

I think this works as a slasher viewers choice.

I mean you can again, you can kind of probably push it into any category you want, Like the music might sound like Ciprianni to you.

Yeah, okay, you can even more with that.

And then there also is the Phantom of Hollywood won't fit into this category, but it is one that is relevant the sweetest taboo category.

Yes, And I bring that up because since the last time we recorded, finally announced the Miskatonic Institute of Horror Studies fall lineup, and I am going to be leading the class this semester, which is very exciting.

Very exciting.

That's a big deal.

So it's called Erasing the Line in the Sand or Lines in the Sand.

I forgot what I called it already.

It's been a while.

Sounds awesome, and it's an online class, so anybody in the world can participate, and it is on an awkward day and time.

It's at like two pm Central Time, Central Standard Time on a Tuesday.

But if you buy a ticket, I think they're like ten bucks, you'll have access to watch it for forty eight hours.

So it's a two hour class.

It'll be about ninety minutes of me talking about dead kids, showing clips, and then the last half hour so it's going to be for questions, even if you have a copy of the book.

I am going to be adding a lot more context and getting into more of like the psychology behind it and why we react differently, you know, parents versus non parents in real life and in the films, getting into some socio political issues with it.

So I hope to see some of our listeners and some familiar names in there in real time.

But if not, I completely understand because it is at a weird time.

But I hope you if you can grab a ticket and check it out because would love to hear people's thoughts afterwards.

Yeah, if you're working, just push your lunch back, take a long lunch.

You deserve a two hour lunch.

Come on, guys, you guys are working too hard at the stage job.

Just yeah, take your lunch at two pm Central Standard time and let's support Eric in this.

Thank you.

But I'll put a link to where you can grab a ticket in show notes.

It's going to be Tuesday, November eighteenth.

Cool, that's a month and Monday after my birthday.

Yes, now, I don't want to shout out my day of Earth.

Why it's October seventeenth, everybody.

Okay, yeah, that's very exciting.

Okay, So jumping right in, I'm not going to summarize this film too much.

I think you can kind of get the kind of guess what it is for the most part.

From the title, it's a play on the Phantom of the Opera essentially, have a massed unknown killer in a really cool get up, which I'll probably talk about here in a bit killing off people who venture into Hollywood studio backlot number two, which is being sold off by the studio to make some money because Hollywood sets are no longer really being used.

Filmmakers are moving to location shooting and whatnot, and these sold backlots will be turned into condos and restaurants and businesses.

Yay yeah, and the mass killer does not want to let go of this Hollywood era.

This film first aired on CBS in nineteen seventy four.

It was originally titled The Phantom of Lot Two, and as of this recording, it has three hundred and thirty two views on letterboxed.

You can find it streaming on Oka dot ru, which is safe and I did a certain but it's on internet archive too.

I found that through a review on letterbox where somebody linked it and it opened up and played, so if you want to watch it there, And I just want to start by saying that many who've brought the we might have brought this up in the past, but sometimes made for TV movies get a bad rap, right, So you can certainly read it in some of the few letterbox reviews out there on this particular movie.

On a lot of other TV movies where people are not really bashing it, but really pointing out why they didn't like it.

Because it's a TV movie.

There's restrictions, there's limitations.

You know, they're not getting.

Maybe they're not getting like the gore that they want in the sex that they want.

You can find that in other places, like people who complain about something like that.

It's like it's not as if that stuff is not available to you elsewhere.

Like if I go into an SOOV, I'm going in with my like sov brain.

If I'm watching the TV movie, I set the dial the TV movie like it was expecting any gore in this at all.

I know it's a TV movie.

I fucking hate people.

Some people have to take your letter boxed away from fucking people.

I think I think people do evolve in their movie watching.

I feel like a lot of people might be expecting some sort of when you see a title the Phantom of Hollywood and you see you we'll talk about like the kills.

They're all mostly off screen, Yeah, and it is something I would love to see that Mason action that we'll get to in a minute.

I mean, even Amanda Reyes and her in her wonderful TV movie compendium Are You in the House Alone?

She writes that TV movies are quote largely considered the bastard stepchild of its silver screen counterparts, and then she also writes TV movies also wrangled with low budgets, slumming film stars, and tight shooting schedules, which is true.

I mean, these companies just pump out these made for TV movies as quickly as possible.

And I had been listening to a lot of pulp recently, the band Pulp Okay.

I went and saw them at Red Rock a couple of weeks ago.

I was revisiting their catalog and I came across the song that I hadn't listened to in like many many years.

Is that the outro song.

I'll probably put it in the outro song.

It's a little long, but I think it's worth I think everybody would kick over.

It every time we put on like some death metal song, those are like eight minutes longer.

But this particular song is called TV movie Okay, and it's on their Perfect album This is Hard Cool fromteen ninety eight, and some of the lyrics are kind of bashing TV movies.

Jarvis Cocker, wonderful songwriter and I'm going to sing the opening verse right here, because that's what I do.

Right This one's dedicated to Ian Jane.

I'm going to rush the melody to save just a little time.

It goes without you.

My life has become a hangover without end.

Movie made for TV, bad dialogue, bad act in no interest, too long, with no story, and no sex.

I mean, come on, it's sadly kind of an understandable description of TV movies.

Yeah, and we'll talk about it more, but I think it does ring a little true.

Like I already said, with The Phantom of Hollywood, you're set up with this awesome looking killer.

He has awesome weapons.

And my favorite scene of this movie is the kind of eight minute cold open, if you will, of the punks breaking into this backlot and him destroying them, and we don't get to see it.

So we'll talk about some of that well, you know, but like you said, you have to walk in with the mindset.

You have to kind of set your dial to this isn't made for TV movie.

You're going to see the commercial breaks, which is some of my favorite style.

I love that part.

It's like, especially when it's on something like to B it's like, here's a perfectly natural place for you to put in your commercials to be instead of your random fucking ass placement.

Sometimes I love you to be, don't break up with me to be.

But I will say about TV movies, I think if you go in and you're like, this is just you know, you have a very baseline expectation for it as far as like what to you know, what you think you're going to get out of a TV movie like this.

That's one thing I just rewatched recently Carpenter Someone's Watching Me.

And I think if if you were like a horror fan and you're going into something like that thinking, oh, it's John Carpenter, it's going to be like and it is in a certain way, like he's working with a very limited budget within a studio, and you know, maybe you feel the budget, maybe you feel the shooting time, maybe you feel all those sorts of things, but it is ultimately about how well is the story being told?

Absolutely, And I'm not saying all this in defense of this movie, because I think this is like pretty basic, yeah for sure, but like something like Someone's Watching Me is I think an exceptional movie.

Even in John Carpenter's entire filmography for what he would working with.

So the people who are shitting on TV movies for it being bloodless and sexless and you know, the budget showing and things like that really need to rethink how they're approaching it when they go into watching a TV movie.

Yeah, one hundred percent, because I mean we kind of grew up in the heyday of made for I mean, I guess there was more like the mid to late seventies, but the eighties was you know, there was no streaming services.

When we were kids, we would pop on a made for TV movie.

We would watch the IT series, we would watch what is It?

Dark Night of the Scarecrow.

So I think we're we're at an age where I mean, on the podcast, we love TV movies.

We've covered them, We've had Amanda Rais on as a guest.

I do sound like an old person, but kids these days.

Fucking kids, man, y'all don't appreciate anything.

Yeah, there's really no I mean, nobody watches basic television that that's of a young age.

You know, any type of made quote made for TV movie are by these huge streaming platforms like what is It?

Brad Pitts F one that's an Apple studio.

It's an Apple TV.

Del Toros Frankenstein is like it's made by a streaming service.

Like it's I feel like that's the equivalent and you're getting there's no like gray lines.

Like when you see a huge like Hollywood star in a TV series, it's kind of no big deal.

Back then it kind of was.

It was like whoa, like, look who's on TV?

Yeah, And sadly it is usually you know, kind of older Hollywood stars that kind of been cast aside in place of younger stars.

But I mean, but at least they're still getting work, so you know, there's.

One hundred percent yeah, so let's yeah.

And I think like what we see that in Phantom of Hollywood we see this is a very kind of end of an era movie.

It it focuses, I think on a lot of viewers who may have been like us who loved watching movies.

You know, their whole life may maybe of our age, and they watch this live, They're going to see a lot of stars that they recognize and grew up.

I think mostly like for me at least, like I knew John Ireland and Jackie Coogan, but like the photos and like all the references and all those sorts of things were what were really like, oh wow, And especially the opening.

The opening credits is probably it's about eight minutes along that whole segment, including when the punks are breaking into the lot.

Yeah, that whole opening credits is my favorite part of the movie.

Same.

Yeah, and it's like eight minutes.

So this is only like a seventy four minute movie.

It feels a lot longer, honestly.

Yeah.

But yeah, let's jump into the cast real quick.

We already.

I'm gonna start with Jackie Coogan, right.

He plays Jonathan, the old kind of bald guy who works in the cutting room.

And I think most people know his name, but he started his career playing the Young the starring role if you will, and Charlie Chaplin's The Kid in nineteen twenty one.

So before that, he was in Chaplain's A Day's Pleasure in nineteen nineteen.

So he's kind of Hollywood roy in a sense.

He's the first Hollywood child actor if you think about it.

Yeah, and you know, I had read that he earned the equivalent of in today's standards, over two million dollars as a child actor during that time.

And then I also Ready.

He later sued his mother and stepfather in nineteen thirty eight over his squandered film earnings that inspired California to act the first known legal protection for the earnings of child performers.

It's called the California Child Actor's Bill, also known as the Cougan Act, which has since been expanded on and obviously protects child performers from asshole parents.

Sure and stepparents.

But yeah, he was a huge star as a kid, And like I was saying, I could imagine a lot of people that may have watched this in nineteen seventy four when it aired on cbssaying like, hey, it's Jackie Coogan.

Obviously when they saw him, they probably immediately thought of Uncle Fester.

Sure from the Adams Family.

Well, I know the first thing you thought of was Doctor Hackle.

Oh yeah, he plays a sergeant Flee callar Eric's personal favorite movie we've ever covered, Doctor Heckel and mister Hype.

Jackie Coogan, isn't that?

But I was never really into the Adams Family original series, Like I think I leaned more towards the Monsters, But even then I was never big fans of either.

I was a huge Monsters fan and that sort of segued me into The Adams Family, which I wouldn't say I watched as much, but I definitely appreciated same.

I thought the cast is great.

I love seeing little clips and I did recently watch a nineteen seventy seven TV movie called Halloween with the New Adams Family.

I saw that, yeah, and it was terrible.

Oh sadly, it has a few funny bits, but it's a reunion.

The entire original cast is there.

It was shown on NBC and the special was intended to be a quote backdoor pilot for a potential new series, but it just bombed.

The reception was terrible and wasn't well received.

Cougan looks very old and tired in it.

It's shot in color, so most of the casts look way older than of course you remember.

Yeah.

Something that was really weird was that Mortitia and Gomez have they since have had two more children, and it's Wednesday and Pugsley Junior.

So they have these they're old, they're really old, but they have these young kids running around.

That's very weird.

Just replicants of the original kids, and the original kids are there.

They're called Wednesday Senior.

And very strange.

I mean one might I say it's kind of creepy, kind of kooky.

Yeah, maybe mysterious and spooky, but just really it's just a it's all together uki.

But yeah, he and then Cougan.

He acted in a lot of other films after that.

Nothing really stand out except maybe Doctor Heckel and Mister Hype.

He was also in the nineteen eighty three The Prey, which some might consider a fun slasher.

I think it's more of a nature documentary when I watch it very slow.

Okay, so let's move on to I think the bigger, even bigger, more consistent Hollywood star John Ireland.

I'm Spartacus.

Yes, he was in Kubrick Spartacus.

He plays Lieutenant Gifford here in Phantom of Hollywood.

I love him because he's so put off and just call him the Phantom an idiot any chance he can get.

This guy's an idiot.

But he was in John Ford's My Darling Clementine.

He was in Howard Hawk's Red River playing Cherry Valence.

He starred in the Academy Award Best Picture winner All the Kingsmen from nineteen forty nine, which I just watched because of Mercedes.

Mrcambridge also has Dead Children, yes in it.

I watched him in The Scarf with Mcambridge from nineteen fifty one, which is an excellent thriller.

I mean, he was pretty much a star in his prime for sure.

He's in The Incubist too, which don't sleep on that movie.

He is in The Incubist with John Cassavetti's Yeah, so I guess in the round the mid seventies he started doing more and more TV movie work and then doing these horror genre films, which happens to a lot of like Hollywood stars and I'm not complaining about that.

I love to see it.

So yeah, he was Ingrading Clark's Satan's Cheerleaders from nineteen seventy seven.

He even pops up in Alberto di Martino's Wild Miami Gollum from nineteen eighty five.

Oh, we are seen that with David Warbeck.

That is such a train wreck.

But yeah, Ireland started doing these TV series pretty regularly, and as this film, stardom was arguably dying down.

And Phantom of Hollywood is one of his first TV movies.

I think it was his second.

When I was looking over his credits and He continued to do television, both movies and series, and like like we mentioned, some horror genre films until he passed away in early nineteen ninety two.

Something that I because I did pick up Amanda Reyis's book when I was kind of, you know, taking notes for this episode.

She was something that I felt, especially after watch Phantom of Hollywood.

Is that quote?

The telefilm was also a welcoming place for classic actors hoping to make a fast buck in a medium that was still calling for them.

It offered a comforting place for both the actor and the audiences who loved them, which is how I felt seeing an old, irate John Ireland in this fucking goofy ass movie.

And I think it's also very true when we watch TV movies, like you know, Darren McGavin in The Nightstalker or Louis Jordan in What is a Ritual of Evil?

Fear No Evil?

These are so comforting to watch, these TV movies.

I just watched Darren McGavin in a TV movie called The forty eight Hour Mile from nineteen seventy that was directed.

By oh Gg.

I love it.

Yeah, And so he's playing a PI, so again comforting this guy David Ross.

He's hired to subpoena a billionaire, but he has to dig into his life in order to get close to him and serve him.

It's not a very interesting story.

The women are super annoying in it.

Darren McGavin is honestly the only reason to watch it.

Guess who was first on Letterbox to log this movie?

This girl, you're the one and only.

One and only person to have log this, I will say besides Darren McGavin, Fred Williamson makes what Yeah, he's got a small part uncredited in this, Like he popped up Babyface Fred Williamson because this is nineteen seventy so this would have only been like his fifth or sixth movie roughly wow in there, but yeah, baby faced Fred Williamson showed up.

Is he in the Letterbox cast?

No, he's just not listen.

I didn't even know he was going to be in it until he popped up and I was like, hey, who it is.

I mean, the movie's not great, so but it is worth it for Darren McGavin.

He's given it everything as he always does.

And then of course Fred Williamson.

So yeah, when you have a TV movie with an actor and Gary mc Dearren McGavin.

He was doing TV series, you know, with all the cult chet stuff.

But yeah, he or like Luis Jordan.

When you see an actor that you just kind of become completely enamored with, it makes any bad TV movie worth watching.

M Okay, we have to talk about the Phantom himself real quick.

Who has dual roles in this He plays the Phantom and Otto Vonner, who he's the guy working in the still vault of the studio.

He's played by Broadway and film actor Jack Cassidy, father of David, Sean and Patrick.

Yeah, he was also a star in his own right, particularly in theater and television.

He won a Tony.

He also had multiple Emmy nominations.

But I think it was very smart to cast him in this role because the Phantom just turns the theatric, melodramatic, just campiness up to ten.

Yeah, because after all, he is an actor.

The way he says this is amazing.

I will say that him as Auto is a little it's a little off putting for me.

So I was like watching him, I was like, what does he look like?

And he looks like he kind of looks like Grandpa.

Joe to me, Oh yeah, from want from Free.

Wonka, minus the Reddit hate page, but with a lot of botox.

Because the forehead is just smooth.

Yeah, I wish I could get my forehead to be that fucking smooth.

Yeah, I mean you can.

You can do it.

I just takes a lot of injections.

I would never but yeah, I agree.

I do think it was a good choice to have him.

Him as a phantom.

Yeah, at auto that those whole scenes are just like, yeah, you're You're not even really listening to the lines, You're just looking at him saying there's just something out right about this.

Yeah, but I did read how how Cassidy passed away, and I wanted to share this because I'm always, you know, morbid about this real life stuff.

So not too long.

A couple of years after the release of Phantom of Hollywood in December nineteen seventy six, Cassidy invited his ex wife Shirley Jones from the Partridge family to his home and West Hollywood for drinks.

She declined, and then it was determined that early the next morning, Cassie was drinking by himself, lit a cigarette and fell asleep on the couch and while asleep, he dropped a cigarette, igniting the couch.

The flames spread throughout the building he was living, and when the blaze was discovered and the fire extinguished, a charred body was found near the front door among the ashes, and it was identified as Cassidys by dental records and the signet ring that he wore with the Cassidy Family Crest like the Phantom Jesus, I mean spooky, Yeah, maybe even a little uky okay, right, but also do they ever address this ring that the honors wear.

Is it just a honor of family Crest like that was?

I think it's just yeah, they're they're matching, like just so we know, like just so we first suspect auto, right, and then it's like, oh wait there's this.

Yeah, it's I was kind of bugged by that.

I wanted more of what that was.

It's fine, it is fine, but come on.

Back, that real life death is that's terrible.

That's a little too close to what this movie.

What happened here?

Yeah, it's like the end of a hammer horror.

Yeah, we do have a hammer time a hammer or a hammer British category Okay.

And then the other actors who aren't very well known.

The main actress, Sky Aubrey plays Randy or Red.

She's kind of the main girl in this.

She's not very good unfortunately.

I think she always a handful of credits, mostly TV stuff.

Peter Haskell plays her husband boyfriend boyfriend Ray Burns.

He's the head of studio publicity.

He went on to play the CEO of Playpals when Child's Play two and three.

Oh yeah, okay.

Then Peter Lawford plays the big boss man, the studio head.

He's also the father to Randy.

He's the one who gets the to destroy the back lot is to destroy your self note from the Phantom.

I mean it is so yeah.

He was a member of the rat Pack and the brother in law of JFK.

How about that.

He starred in the original Ocean's Eleven with the other rat Pack actors, and he co starred in Dead Ringer with Betty Davis in nineteen sixty four.

Then we have Broaderick Crawford, who plays Captain O'Neill, who I think is great in this.

He's always great and everything I've seen.

He won an Academy Award for Best Actor and Golden Globe for his Willie Stark and all the Kings Men, so him and John Ireland obviously had a working relationship already.

But as you mentioned, if you look at the kind of like the cast list on Letterbox, there's a lot of side characters and cameos of apparently probably very recognizable people at the time when this was released to the viewers in nineteen seventy four, but a lot of Hollywood actors from the thirties, forties and fifties kind of pop up.

I think most of them are like guests at that gala.

Yeah, but yeah, I recommend just everybody kind of click on these pictures in letterbox because if you take a look at their credits, there's like these impressive old films.

Yeah.

It's one of those things where like I look at the cast and name wise, only a couple stand out, But like if I click through them and I'm like, okay, yeah, I know who.

That is, kind of you know, yeah, exactly like I think Jackie Coogan.

I think if you don't know the name, I mean, you're not gonna know who he is.

But when you start clicking on and reading the history, you're like, oh, yeah, that is Uncle Fester, that is the kid from Charlie Chaplin, and I think this is very something that's kind of meta in a way because of the subject matter of this movie.

I think gene Levitt probably did this intentionally with love these cameos.

So yeah, let's talk about gene Levitt.

So everything that's mentioned about him on the Internet always lists his most significant accomplishment, which is he created the television series Fantasy Island in nineteen seventy eight.

Cue the sound bite, de playing de play.

Which is currently being parodying on South Park, which I'm not watching, but I've seen some clips and it's I haven't watched South Park in years, but I'm like, that's I've watched her, like.

The first two of the season, the new season.

It's pretty funny.

I don't have the paramount plus so.

Oh I don't either.

Yeah, that's I think I actually did.

Like, yeah, I may have re upped it.

Just for that Lance is stealing.

Yeah that's it.

But yeah, Lovett.

He's pretty much just a TV series writer and producer.

He didn't direct a whole lot.

You had mentioned the forty eight hour Mile.

He directed a TV movie thriller in nineteen sixty nine, starring Louis Jordan and Mary Tyler Moore called Run a Crooked Line.

He directed a segment of Night Gallery, also an episode of Colechak The Nightstalker.

But yeah, he mainly just worked in television.

The Phantom of Hollywood was written by Robert Tom and George Shank.

Tom wrote Roger Corman's Death Race two thousand, Bloody Mama, Good Ones, and he also wrote the banger Matt Simbers Awesome, The Witch who Came from the Sea Hell yeah yeah.

Shank wrote the story for Turkey Shoot and the West World sequel Future World.

The original score in this is by another kind of Hollywood elite of the olden days, Leonard Rosenman.

He scored Rebel Without a Cause, East of Eden, Barry Lyndon, a few of the Planet of the Ape sequels, and then he went on to score RoboCop two.

Hell yeah.

He's a real Hollywood player.

Yeah.

And then he also he also did Frankenheimer's Prophecy, which has a five star child kill in it, race with the Devil Man called Horse.

Oh.

There's this other one, Hide and Plane Site that is starring and directed by James Kahn, which I think it was like this passion project for him because it's basically about this guy going into witness protect and just it's very average.

I forgot I had seen it until I was like looking through the filmography and I was like, oh, that's blurred out or you know, I'm like, I've seen that, and I looked at it.

I was like, oh, yeah, does he have sex with a lot of people?

I usually in passion projects there's a lot of.

No, it's no.

I don't think so.

And maybe it's so forgettable I.

Have James forgotten it just going wild.

Yeah he's not playing Sonny.

I'll just say that.

And then the last cast member that I have to talk about, or the last crew member that I wanted to talk about, is the makeup.

It was handled by a Hollywood classic makeup artist, William Tuttle, who has hundreds and hundreds of credits singing in the Rain, north by Northwest, mel Brooks's Young Frankenstein.

He actually started in horror, with his first makeup credit being Todd Browning's Mark of the Vampire from nineteen thirty five.

Oh wow.

So some other horror movies that I saw he did makeup for include The Fury, The Night Strangler, Necromancy, and Moon of the Wolf.

But yeah, Tuttle's makeup in this feels very old school, and I think that's kind of an intentional choice.

Like you already said, the makeup on Auto is kind of jarring.

It feels like almost Tuttle's makeup is meant for a black and white movie.

Okay, yeah, like the Phantom's makeup is.

It gave me kind of like long Cheney senior vibes, like if it was in black and white, it would be way more effective.

And I feel like that's kind of what Tuttle was used to instead of just put smearing kind of off color silly putty all over the actor's face and calling it, you know, burn scars.

Yeah, yeah, any other cast or crew members.

Yeah, the cinematographer on this, Jean Polito, has some bangers under his belt.

Prime Cut with Lee Marvin, Jene Hackman, Westworld Colossus, the Forben Project, which is like, you know, Russia's got a robot, We've got a robot.

We let the robots talk.

What do you think is gonna fucking happen?

Like it's yeah, it's terrifying, especially in the times we're living in right now, but it is also really good downbeat sci fi film.

Yeah.

I did watch that on your recommendation, and that was it was great.

Yeah, good stuff.

There's this other random one that he did that I don't know if John watched it with me, but it's called All the Kind Strangers And yes, during my Stacy keach Binge that I went on, I think I did that.

I don't remember.

You remember this one, right, Oh, I loved this movie.

Yeah, we're like it's a TV movie.

Yeah, and that this is I think that's a prime example of if you read reviews, it's people saying this would be such a fucking banger if it was if it didn't have these these these restraints on it.

Sure, and that might have even been like my impression too, where it's like it's so close to being amazing.

It's great for what it is, but it's like, wow, think about what it could be.

And I do that sometimes to TV movies.

I'll admit that, like sometimes I go in with that.

And this particular one, this one should be in your book, like I feel like that's what's really and that makes sense, like I was waiting for, like, Okay, there's got to be a child.

There has to be there isn't though, and it's sorry spoiler, but it is a like I think it's really interesting to watch because it is also my worst fucking nightmare where it's like I get essentially kidnapped by a family and they're like be our parent.

I'd be like, good, God, get me the fuck out of here.

Yes, Stacy Kish and Samantha Eggar, Yeah, yeah, I love that movie.

But again, yeah, just to jump right into the you know, the TV restrictions, I still think it would be amazing to show him the phantom I'm talking about now killing the security guards because there's seven body counts in this movie.

Yeah, it's got a high body count, but.

They're all off screen.

You just see kind of like the dead or like a broken hard hat helmet with blood in it.

You get one on screen kill, which is very fun to watch, and that's auto yeah, where he has like this I don't know speaker rigging fall on him at this gally event and it just squashes this dummy.

That is just so fun to watch.

If there was a dummy squash list, it would go on that, but it is not a dummy drop.

So they also show, you know, afterwards, like they're kind of moving the I guess the debris and it's just like a dummy.

I'll fold it over a little bit, like give me more of that, give me more just dead dummies everywhere, but show some gore.

It's like, you know, you've got plenty of them lying around, Like the one security guard finds the dummies like, ah, it's a dummy, you know, like he's used to seeing them all over the place.

Which that part I love because after a few murders happened, the head of the studio is like double the security and so it's like, so, what one more guy.

Right right exactly?

I Mean that's one thing I love about this is the actual destruction of these Hollywood of these sets.

Why do you love that?

What's wrong with you?

Are you an evil person?

Well?

I don't love what's happening on screen.

It's very bittersweet, very sad, But I love that we have this movie that's showing us what occurred on lot too.

And yeah, first on Lot three, but that was before, but this was.

I think this movie's as notable for being one of the last films shot on this MGM backlot in Culver City, which is something that I that I really enjoy about this film.

Like I said, I think the opening credits where it's showing each set piece and then it quickly cuts to the movie from you know, the black and white movie from whatever whatever decade, the forties or fifties, you get those quick scenes.

Yeah, and it's very it's kind of heartbreaking.

I feel for the phantom.

I understand where he's coming from.

It's an end of an era.

First we had the silent era moved to talkies.

Then it's the sound on stages that are kind of being replaced by these kind of gorilla you know, filming tactics of on location.

Yeah.

Well, it's interesting because like this is nostalgic for you know, backlot sets, while during this era, films are going on location.

Now in you know, the Year of Our Lord twenty twenty five, we are we're dealing with green screens and our nostalgic for exit, not on location and back lot sets.

Even.

Yeah, it's relatable because on I mean almost every horror genre fan viewer, or especially on this podcast, when we talk about movies and cover movies from the seventies and eighties, we are just celebrating and applauding practical effects and nowadays it's CGI blood, it's CGI everything, so it's almost relatable if you look at it like that, and nostalgia's a fucking annoying bitch.

It's like, yeah, it's my problem with it is like I just don't like how movies look nowadays.

I just I don't.

And if you're if you're fighting an invisible monster in front of a green screen, it's just it takes something out.

Or if you're reacting to CGI blood being splattered on your face when it's not really there, it just it all feels fake.

Like I can't tell you how many times we get messages on our Unsung Horrors Instagram page from people who are like, hey, do you take movie suggestions?

And I'm like, oh, here we go.

I'm like, we take suggestions, but do not guarantee you we'll cover anything.

Well, you know, I have, like I have like a templated response for these at this point, and it's always some new movie.

Right, and I'm like, yeah, they don't.

Yeah, the rules are pretty specific.

Yeah, I mean.

It's the rule, the standard.

The one rule is, you know, fewer than a thousand views on letterbox, which sure, if it's a new movie and it doesn't have that yet.

Yes, technically it fits that.

But clearly, if you are approaching us, you're not looking at the movies that we have previously covered, Like have you seen anything that we have covered right from you know, after have we covered Well, we've covered a few, Like I think the newest movie.

We've covered was we did that Crystalize.

Crystal Crystalize one from that was twenty like twenty seventeen, but that was like foreign film, independent made.

Like still under a thousand, you know.

And so I'm not trying to discourage people from you know, you know, shoot your shot reach out, but also like do your fucking research and look at like the people you're reaching out to, like seeing if it's a good fit.

And like I was nice and I said, like this is really unlikely, we'll cover it, and I suggested some other podcasts for them to pitch it to.

And I was just like, we're not covering this guy.

Sorry, I don't care if I'm saying this, because I know this guy clearly doesn't listen to our podcast.

Oh it's a one, it's one guy that keeps coming back or what.

Well this latest one?

Oh okay, but I mean anyone in general, like I don't think they're actually listening, and I think they're just like you're finding horror podcast description in our Instagram profile and are like oh here, I'm like.

Which is yeah, which is good.

I mean, we love interaction.

But yeah, you should before just the word of advice, before suggesting anything to any podcast, listen to one episode, like you know, yeah, get a little, get a little back backstory.

I do still love the fact that I picked what was it called Night of the Scarecrow mm hm, and you know that has some cgi but has practical effects.

But I got you to like that.

Oh yeah, I didn't get you to like it.

You like what you like.

But I presented this movie where I was like, oh, it's nineties horse, she's gonna ate this.

Yeah, and you loved it.

It's still one of my favorite episodes I've ever seen.

I mean it's you know, you just you can't beat hey there.

Yeah, and like just see the Scarecrow like that, that's prime time.

But yeah, again, it made me sad that the because before this was filmed, Lot three had already been sold in real life.

Lot two is being sold in the Culver City back lots, and Lot one is now.

I had read the site of Sony Pictures Entertainment where films like Terminator, two Muppets take Manhattan total recall Interstellar film scenes there.

So it's the last lot is now Sony, but it's it's used for the purposes of what these old lots once did.

But yeah, the opening again just to say I want to go through some of my favorites.

Now I'm just gonna jump through stuff.

So the opening credits, I love it when the fucking punks are like jumping the fence and trashing the sets, breaking statues.

Obviously the Phantom's gonna get them.

But one of them says crazy place, huh, turns me on, like this movie's gonna rule.

And then it's slowly I think at the first eight minutes I was fucking sold.

There's little segments in between, but the seventy four minutes or I would say that the sixty five minutes in between, or just they drag sure this thing.

I recommend watching.

It's not gonna interfere with anything, but I recommend watching it like one in a quarter one and a half speed because the dialogue that's spoken is very just like slowly paced, and it it makes it feel more real in like a TV movie when it sped up just a little.

Yeah, this is this is also something you could potentially have on in the background.

When I told John that we were this is our next episode, he was like, oh, we watched that last year.

And I was like, what the fuck are you talking about.

I haven't seen this and he was like, yeah, no, we watched it last October.

I'm like, what the fuck and he was like, oh, we were like carving pumpkins or something like that.

I'm like, okay, well then, yeah, I'm not watching the screen and seeing what's going on on.

So no, I have not seen this movie.

Yeah, it does give me.

I love the look of it and the feel of it, and I think it's perfect for a pumpkin carving party or something because it screams autumn vibes.

It screamed actually like hammer horror to me because of the use of all the sets and the way it's shot and the Phantom's costume, which I.

Was expecting, like when they were bulldozing at the end when she's like underground, I was expecting like I was expecting the hammer fire.

But I was like, well, they're probably not going to do that, but after the collapse especially, and then she's just sitting down there like crying, and I was like, it doesn't look that high.

You could probably climb up and get yourself out of there, but you know, damsel in distress and a damsel in distress I guess.

Yeah.

That whole scene in the Layer felt very Fantom of the Operats.

I mean, he's very old school, and I think it plays into that where the you know, she's like you know it.

He's like, look at me, look at my face, you know, will you faint?

And she's like, if I faint, it's because I'm afraid of you, not because of what you look like, and like turns his head and he's like yeah.

And I feel like her being in distress.

And it felt very old school, very like forties horror, which I respected.

I did like it.

I do want to talk about the Phantom's get up because I think it's awesome.

I love how he just stands on top of buildings in broad daylight with his heart like he walks around at the Galevant in full costume, and obviously I think William Tuttle does what he's hired to do with that.

That silly putty face.

But I especially like his his last weapon of choice, the bow and arrow, where he's picking off construction workers and cops at the end, looking like a Renaissance festival like Robin Hood villain.

So You've running around with his bow and arrow and I'm like very swashbuckler.

Yeah, and I'm like more cops, please come on.

I did like, like, I just love this.

I love the way Cassidy presented himself kind of like an Errol Flynn or Douglas Fairbanks old school theater type actor.

I think the whole cast goes hard again.

I feel like Randy's kind of underutilized in the Layer and throughout the whole movie.

But her dad played by Peter Haskell, he's the studio head.

I think he's so good in this where him and John Ireland are like, this guy's an idiot, He's fucking stupid.

Like I don't know, I just love Jackie Coogan does a terrific job in it.

Like I just I really enjoyed the characters.

I just I wish that the scenes in the dialogue just don't drag as much as they do, yeah, because it interferes with I mean's with everything I like about it.

Yeah, I mean, it's still like I think it just falls into that category of a very serviceable but an appropriate, appropriate under certain circumstances to watch, like definitely during fall or in October kind of thing, Like this wouldn't be anything I would recommend to watch outside of this season.

But I mean, I'm I'm with you, like I wish I'm still going to do it with TV movie lens.

But at the same time, I'm like, I like the nostalgic aspect of it.

I love just, you know, seeing all the old Hollywood stuff.

The opening.

I don't know if there's a way to do that better, Like maybe in my head, I'm like, he this was more horror movie centric than just old Hollywood in general.

And then we're using that to actually kill people that are and we're mimicking older horror movies and using the sets or something like that that's.

Based on Oh okay, well, because I had the exact same idea, like, Okay, we're presented this in the very beginning.

You see this old guillotine, and I'm like, let's use that.

Yeah, And to get to the ending, it kind of goes around, It goes to this it's the kind of the same point.

The uneventful and very questionable way that Phantom dies at the end is lazy as fuck, and the ending is completely rushed, which is sad because you could just take out a lot of the boring stuff in the middle.

But he just falls for no reason.

He's standing up there and he's like, you will never find me, and he falls like it's it's not made like I felt like maybe the intention of Levitt and the screenwriters was to have the old set give way, like you know, he's I think what especially bothered me is because earlier on in the movie there's some guards that are chasing him.

I think it's after he kills Auto.

Yeah, and he's hopping over He's hopping over all these obstacles.

He's climbing ladders.

He knows every inch of the entire backlock.

Yeah, he lives there.

Yeah.

Yeah, so he's not gonna fall like, he knows where he's jumping, he knows he's setting traps for the guards, and to have him just kind of like say you'll never find me, and then he goes like whoa what what and like falls off and falls off this scaffolding and dies.

Yeah, he should have been shot.

I think it should have been more prevalent that maybe the old set gave way.

And it's like, oh that's sad.

This this this lot and these sound stages and these sets that he's fighting for are old, nobody's using them, and let let that show.

Like I feel like the scaffolding should have broken at the bottom something way more you know, obvious, just die with the.

I mean I know that they are in a way dying, but like together in one scene like physically show that.

You know.

I did not like the end, and then it cuts to like his head shot and then the voiceover of like you were as handsome as a man as I've ever seen.

I'm like, fucking lame.

Oh come on, this.

Could have I know.

I still overall like you said, I did like it too.

I loved watching all the old real sets.

I think it's better, sweet.

I think it's a great piece of history that used.

Is this goofy horror?

Yeah, I mean I think the like the modern version of something like this is so like, you know, John and I are planning a trip out to California next year for his birthday, and I'm like, oh, do you want to go see like you know a few places where things were shot, Like we can go to the house on Haunted Hill House and we can go to Rainbow Room.

You want to see where, let me want, you know.

So I think they're like, that's the kind of nostalgia I have for the on location, like the actual location shots kind of thing, whereas he has that for this.

So like I understand, like, you know, if someone were to demolish the you know, yeah, if someone were to demolish the church you know in uh Prince of Darkness, I'd be like, no, don't, don't do that.

So yeah, I was thinking to I could imagine a situation where maybe like this crazy horn or is here's that maybe somebody's going to demolish the night roun Elm Street house or something, and you know here she locks themselves into this house and start picking off like land surveyors and developers yelling like this is my home.

You can't take this is my childhood, you can't deny me this.

Well, I think that's what's nice about what happened to the Texas Chainsaw Mascar House is that the people who own it now like and run the restaurant, like embrace the fact that like, this is what this was, and you know they play into that.

You know, it's not fully recognizable as it was in the film of course.

Right, but they physically moved it off of that land that was slated for development.

Yeah.

Yeah, so, I mean I completely understand the nostalgia, but I also think, like for the purposes of this movie, yes, like it did not end the like in a satisfying way at all.

Yeah, I agree.

Yeah, it's even if he was included in like being destroyed, which I thought was gonna happen when John or when the boyfriend was driving the excavator, like kill him in an excavator, kill him with the demolition ball, you know something, Oh demolition ball.

Yeah, make him part, but it probably happened to happen off screen or just show a dummy flying through the air in a freeze frame boom.

Yeah.

The ending just didn't do it for me, But overall I did like it.

I gave it three stars on Letterbox.

Yeah it's one I would recommend, but exactly like you said, this is an autumn vibe Halloween time watch.

Yeah.

Uh so yeah, let's let's jump to double features.

Sure, so I think you know something we talked about in our Who Can Kill a Child episode was daylight horror, and this is that they're you know, Phanom the opera I generally think of, I don't think of as daylight horror at all, you know, especially because you know the good ones are all black and white anyway, so and.

It's all kind of under.

It's all underground or in you know, yeah, raft like and even like Phantom of the Paradise like that's you know, anyway, that's its own masterpiece.

I mean, I don't necessarily think there's a daylight horror that would pair well with it, but I do think this falls into that category of that you know TV movies.

This one's a really slow one, so I think you might need to find like one that is really sort of you know, fast paced and moves along really well.

Let's see what else.

Fade to Black I think would make a really great double feature.

But ultimately I'm I'm going with another Phantom remake, and that's Phantom of the Mall Eric's Revenge from nineteen eighty nine, because there's nothing more la than going to the mall, so it has that element.

So this one's obviously you have a kid living in the air ducts of the mall and killing people.

This one has blood in it, so it makes up for the bloodlessness of Phantom of Hollywood.

So Phantom of the Mall instead of Phantom of Hollywood.

But we're still still in La We're still being very valley girl.

That's good.

That's a good double Phantom feature because I thought also of like De Palma's Phantom Paradise.

But yeah, something that again, like already you brought up the set pieces from old films should have been used to murder his victims, and Phantom of Hollywood like again that old guillotine in the beginning.

And this led me to think of Theater of Blood from nineteen seventy three.

Yeah, directed by Douglas Hickcock's starring Vincent Price as this much like the what's his name?

Carl of Honor.

He's this drain Shakespearean actor who everybody believes is dead by suicide, but he begins taking revenge on critics that had bashed his performances using methods and fired by murder and death scenes from his previous roles.

It's a horror comedy, so I think that would pick up the pace for sure and fill up for the kind of like if you think Phantom of Hollywood is dull, I would pop this on after.

I think it's horror comedy done perfectly.

In my opinion, I'd put it up there with like Reanimator and Return to the Living Dead.

It's just something I love.

Doesn't have as much gore.

It does have gore, does have a lot of dummy drops and just you know, great seventies effects.

Price also called this one of his favorite his personal favorites of his own films.

So I can't recommend it enough.

I recommend that everybody watch it this Halloween season if you haven't.

It is my favorite Price performance.

He's so good in it.

This is like full Ham and I'm here for it.

So yeah, yeah, So what's your October pick?

What's your horror gives Back pick?

My pick for next month is going to fit a few horror gives back categories, like I mentioned earlier, nineteen eighties.

Obviously it'll fit into the sung Horror's rule.

We're going to be talking about fatal Exposure from nineteen eighty nine.

I'm just reading the letterbox synopsis because I couldn't do it better.

The great grandson of the infamous.

Jack the Ripper is a photographer who murders women in bizarre ways.

He photographs them and then drinks their blood in order to increase his sexual potency sexual triannosaurs.

So one day he meets the girl of his dreams to carry on the family name, but he uses her to lure in more female models to murder and add to his collection.

And this girl's name is Erica.

Oh that's not why I picked it.

This movie really is because the movie is a.

Lot of fun and I love it and I think it's Yeah, I think it's a fun pick for this month, just because I tend to lean more into, you know, the gothic and Halloween's kind of stuff, and I like, I wanted to do one that I think is a lot of fun.

So it'll Exposure nineteen eighty nine.

This one is on YouTube.

We'll put a link to it in Discord and show notes.

But yeah, fatal Exposure.

Cool.

And before we go, I would like to mention our good friend Julia Smith.

She has an Indigo campaign for her dirt for her Birth of the Acid Western documentary.

She recently released a trailer that I think was really well done.

Yeah, very informative, very well edited, maybe even more excited to see this.

But she needs a little more funds for the post work necessary to get this completed.

So I donated a little bit.

If you can donate a couple dollars, I mean, anything you can, I think will help kind of speed up this release, which selfishly I want out in the world.

Yeah, but yeah, we could throw up the link maybe to that Indigo campaign for her, and absolutely, yeah consider it, consider donating that and Independent Cinema.

Yep, that'll be in show notes as well, and we'll put in our discord too, So be sure to check it out.

And you know, if you're listening right now in the car or something and you forget, just go find her on Instagram Birth of the Acid Western You can find her on Instagram and you can link find a link there as well.

You should already be following her.

You should, Yeah, she posts some good stuff all right.

Speaking of Instagram, if you're not already, you can follow us there at Unsung Horrors, and you can follow me on Instagram and Letterbox at Hex Massacre.

I'm on Instagram in Letterbox as well as el Shiby.

Thanks for listening everyone.

We'll see you back next episode for fatal exposure.

Bye bye.

Without you.

My life as we come ang over with that need forts the hour by acting not inter rest too long with no story and no sex.

Visit God, a freeiness.

To listen someone so much to was today?

Go way like you did yesterday.

It's like you did yesterday.

I'm not counting work to get through this spayer, to be happy again, to make it all all right.

I know it must be that sitting here right now.

Oh, I know he's a kind of go think he can't you think it clever to say to say so?

I say what for ten minutes?

Love?

So I need you here with me.

It's so feir that I miss you so much.

They say you're gonna stay, So please say you gonna stay?

So please say you gotta stay.

I just get juk and there's nothing on TV but oh sit two morning light.

Yeah, I'll wait till the day, until the day did you say you're gonna stay?

Hello and welcome to Tumbleweeds and TV Cowboys.

My name is Hunter.

In this podcast, I'll be joined by a different guest each week to discuss a classic Western movie or TV show.

I've been a fan of classic westerns for as long as I can remember, and in recent years they've become very nostalgic for me.

I love the aesthetic, the tropes, and I love seeing different filmmakers takes on them at their best.

They're incredibly entertaining, rewatchable, and some of my all time favorite movies are Westerns.

We'll mostly focus on Western movies made in Hollywood, but will also be covering spaghetti westerns and one thing I'm very excited to get into our Western TV shows.

I've got some amazing guests coming on the show, film professors, historians, and podcasters and Tumbleweeds and TV Cowboys is part of the Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network, and many guests on the show will be from other shows on the network.

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