The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

Detective see a side of life the average person is never exposed to.

I spent thirty four years as a cop.

For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.

That's what I did for a living.

I was a homicide detective.

I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys.

Instead, I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from all sides of the law.

The interviews are raw and honest, just like the people I talked to.

Some of the content and language might be confronting.

That's because no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

Join me now as I take you into this world.

Welcome back to Part two of the Eye Catch Killers Christmas Special.

Yes, I'm a bit tired trying to keep up with Eloise and Rob Carlton, but Part two was a lot of fun.

We actually went into the interview room, had a few laugh talked to some serious stuff and I hope you enjoy and have a merry Christmas.

All right, friends, welcome back to the second half of the very special Christmas edition of Eye Catch Killers with Gary Jublin and Elouise Eftos and I'm the other guest host, Rob Carlton, just quickly.

So it's a Christmas special which takes me to the first solo show I did.

The opening story was a beautiful Christmas story where two cousins ended up having the most intimateive relations And that's the sneakiest segue I can get to show promotions.

So, as I said, I met Elouise earlier this year, She's had the most extraordinary run of her show, Australia's first attractive comedian.

She's won all sorts of awards.

She went over to Edinburgh, had a sold out run.

For those of you that know Edinburgh, you know what extraordinary feat that is.

She got nominated I believe the first Australian to be nominated, as first Australian woman to be nominated as Best Newcomer.

Just be creatively huge, pade all of those things.

So, Elouise, You've got a news show coming next year, tell us about it.

So I've got a new show.

Also a few encores of my debut show which is which is exciting for anyone that missed it.

So I'll be doing the encore of Australia's First Attractive Comedian.

Will the debut in New York City if you have any listeners in New York in March.

New York City is a city in America.

City in America, the city that Never sleeps, the Big Apple you'll call it.

Oh yeah, sorry, I can't see it in New York.

You'll have to come to Hoe Bar so fifth to the fifteenth.

I'll be doing Australia's First Attractive Comedian there.

I'm also doing sorry, another encore in Adelaide, Adelaide Free and I'll be doing it on core of it, as well as the work in progress of my new show, which I don't know exactly what it's going to be called yet, but I'll be touring my new show, The Ill debut in Melbourne at Melbourne Comedy Festival the last two weeks and then I will tour it all around Sydney Brisbane.

I'll also be going to New Zealand if we have any follows New Zealand, and then also to probably Canberra, I hope, because I do love can great audiences there and and Perth obviously got to go to the hometown.

And then I'll be taking it overseas to Edinburgh and Oncooring as well.

Australia's as Attractive Comeditis.

It's going to be an interesting year.

I'm going to be doing both shows, sort of tag teaming them at the same time.

But yeah, really excited.

The new show is about how I've never been in love and I don't know if it's real and it's a little bit we're talking to Rob a little bit about it and it's sort of, yeah, the part two of my first show and sort of is playing the persona stopping me from finding love?

Or is being a strong woman on stage?

Yeah?

Is it?

Is it?

Like you know, yeah?

Is it intimidating?

Is it?

There's a lot of questions I want to ask, Yeah, is it you know, to do with my own conditioning, you know, having Greek heritage and the working title currently radiety, Well that's the thing, that's the thing.

But I'm going you know, is it these traditional values that we get taught and trying to be first?

And then also, you know, Vogue just said having a boyfriend's embarrassing.

So I'm trying to figure out what as a single woman, what's one of my one of my options and yeah, so that that's sort of what the new shows about.

It should it should get very very silly.

I sing and dance and play different characters in my shows as well as doing stand up, so it's going to be it should be very fun.

Yeah, well, you're trying to find out why you can't find love.

Well, just you couldn't really do a show like.

That, either of you could.

I'm going I swear, well, you've obviously found I.

Found love, but I did lose my virginity very late.

So it swings around the defense.

I lost my virginity when I was eighteen, and people go, go, do you think that's late?

I'm going, I was late later than you.

This is what I catch killers is about people revealing.

All I'm saying is that.

It's an amazing ability to get this.

I was saving myself for someone that wanted to do it with me now.

That moment.

So for those listeners out there, what I would say about Elawez's show, I'd get in on the ground floor.

A young woman.

She's got all these different skills.

When she says she does characters, she does sing, she's an extraordinary sing, extraordinary characters.

It's because it's that character actor work.

It's also her shows to my eye, certainly Australia's first attractive comedian was predicated on some really interesting thinking.

And then it's one thing for a comedian to have that interesting thinking, but then how to turn it funny.

That's where the magic happens.

So I'm really interested in seeing where you go with this next show.

This is also what is so scary.

It's like this this next show is about I guess me wanting to be more vulnerable with the audience, which is the first show is like I'm too hot to do comedy and the response that I got and it's quite staunch and sort of me going, you know, this is a feminist this is an act of it's like a political statement me doing this on stage and being a confident woman on stage in Australia.

Heaven forbid, you know.

But then this next show, I guess is it's about me being wanting to be vulnerable with the audience and I guess me wanting to be vulnerable in relationships and like, is that what?

You know?

That that's sort of it's all, yeah, there's a lot of layers, you know.

And then so but with all of that how do you find the funny?

Well, yeah, and how do you make it funny?

It's quite sad that the amount of work I'm doing on it now, it's almost quite it's quite sad, but I am not sad in the way of like, oh my lord, but it just a bit there's moments where I'm like, oh, that is a really like sad revelation.

Or you know, I listened to a lot of music when I write shows, and this theme of this show is very much in the disco sort of like that free that sort of disco fifty four or five.

Yeah, a little bit more like I want to talk about, you know, these these things like you know, why are men scared of dancing?

But no, just these like silly questions of you know, even the way the world's going modern dating everything.

It's a little bit I think for women, we've been told to be independent and like, you know, which is great, But at the same time, it's like, is it bad that I still want love from a man?

Is that like a bad thing?

Is that something that am I pathetic for wanting that?

Or a man going to meet me in that space?

Or are we going to are we splitting apart?

Is that the way the world's going.

You take that into into humor and I look, I do the research.

I know it's only two hours a day recording time.

I love, I love sometimes I have to read three books for one guest.

Because you've not a good point.

Watch every TV show you've appeared on.

That stand up to watch all of those.

I wanted to make the point, like I do research, and your stuff is funny.

I really I was watching it, and I thoroughly respect Rob's opinion because generally he lets me know when someone's performing around here because he needs a place to stay that normally comes with a ticket, and I offer him a bit beaut like I want to ask you to.

I want to ask you to stand up comedy.

I reckon that would have to be the hardest thing to do.

And I'm comfortable talking on stage, but I can take it to heavy stuff.

I could entertain people about making them laugh.

But if I thinking I've got to get up there and make them laugh, I sit there and I feel nervous for you guys.

YEA, yeah, yeah, you get nervous before.

Absolutely.

There's a part of me that I mean I sort of delve into in my show that it was a bucket list thing because I think I always was.

I love comedy.

I think it's an incredible art form.

It's like magic.

When you watch someone do comedy, it's like, how the hell are they doing?

For me?

I was in awe of it.

But I was an actor, and I was I studied film and journalism.

I never thought that I would do comedy.

I was always that was the backup, and then I was going to do acting.

I trained as a singer and a dancer, you know, and then but with comedy was stand up.

It was something that I started m seeing these shows.

I was a cabaret.

I was dancing in cabarets, and it was like a bit of a sexy cabaret vibe and a bit of burlesque in it and stuff.

And I was the MC.

And I realized that I felt this power almost being this woman that was, you know, wearing a sexy dress or like laundry and almost being like you can't touch us up here, and making people laugh almost by being this powerful woman that you would have seen the way that I am on stage is very I'm untouchable or that I you know, I'm better than you.

And there was something so fun and empowering about that, and the joke started to just come just this, yeah, this person, this persona which almost like she's like an affirmation, and then it's almost I don't think this is gonna sound so bad, probably if other committees listen to it, but I don't think it will give me enough credit out how hard it is to do that style of comedy, because comedy is hard.

But if you can fall on your sword and go, oh, I don't like this about myself, people go ha ha, you know, or they go oh, yeah, I feel like I'm a bit of a loser, and people will laugh because they it's almost like this they feel I don't want to say sorry for you, but it is an easier way to make people laugh.

If you fall on your sword, you're like the clown, you're the jester.

But I'm doing the opposite, where I'm sort of trying to make people laugh by saying I think I'm better than you, and what are.

You going to do?

They can laugh at you with it then, and even then people still sometimes it goes over their head.

But I also think that the message of what I'm trying to say, I hope that it makes people think and go, oh god, you know, maybe I am being a bit sexist or a little bit, you know, projecting my own insecurities onto this woman on stage who's talking about a certain thing.

And yeah, if I can make people laugh while I do that, it is a nerve wrecking thing.

And sometimes they don't laugh and you have to get over it.

And I can't back down.

I can't do my joke and then go that's the thing about doing high status.

I can't not make them laugh and then be like, actually, I'm just joking.

I actually really like you guys, and I don't think this about myself because that is the beauty.

Yeah, undercustry what I'm doing.

There's so much for the stage presence.

And I learned a lot from you on that.

Oh yeah, like I can laugh at someone talking about sharpening a pencil.

You're doing it with confidence and incredible example that holding the space and just waiting for it and then the punchline comes.

Yeah, I'm still and you know what, I'm still learning how to hold space.

And I think I learned it.

I was saying to Rob on the phone the other day.

I learned that, you know, with my show, not just with my show, but even just doing stand up spots, like just gigs around and just not letting the silence get to me because I feel like there was there's times where you would even see it in my in my set or in my show.

There's like a joke.

I like to fill the space because I think that's just me as a person.

I want to I want to make sure I'm not making them laugh every minute, you know, every second.

But you also there's something about holding them and then the tension and then letting it out, and that for me is also more more rewarding.

But I'm still getting used to it.

It's scary.

It is scary, but I think I if I'm talking, if I'm doing the talk, I know, if I'm holding the pace of it, yes, that's when I'm at my best.

If I'm I'm going to get this done, got to get totally.

But when I say something and you're the best out of rob you just you say something and you just sit with it and the audience that they're going.

Yeah, exactly, you know what I mean, he's the mask, He's a master, whereas I mean I'm still learning how to do it.

I also think that sometimes off these moments were like watching yourself.

You know on stage, I'm not in my body.

I need to get back into my body.

But that's I think also a bit of an acting thing.

You've been doing it for so long as well.

I haven't heard anything after you guys said I was the master.

You want to you want to a little bit just.

Into that a little further.

I was going to say sorry, and then I'm speaking of the master.

We're going to talk about yours as well.

Well, since you bring it up, I must so, yeah, gentle listener.

So my last show is four True Stories.

So my plugs are kind of funny.

Basically, I've got a brand news show.

It's called Virgin in a Knife Fight.

Watch the name alone.

It's Virgin in a knife Fight.

It's four true stories.

The first story is when I was a virgin in a knife fight.

All I will say about that is that it's fair to say I was underprepared.

I was what kind of knife fight?

We talking, Well, virgins are really prepared for knife fights.

Man, if you were to line up all the virgins that have been in knife fights, I'd say most of us wouldn't have would have been underprepared.

And so and the other three stories are not about that, because I then grow up.

But it's a show about being underprepared.

It's a show about being surprised, about being sideswiped.

And they're all true stories.

And so as a results, I was eighteen.

Look all I'll say about that moment, the moment where I did lose my visage.

I was a little underprepared for that as welled, So there was so and then anyway, I tell three more stories.

But as of course you get older, the things that surprise you are of a different nature.

So that first surprise was an outward worldly thing coming at me, and like, oh dear, as we get older, sometimes surprises come from within.

Sometimes surprises come from saying we've done to ourselves, and sometimes surprises come from a wa wacky, wacky world that just is a surprising place.

So I've got four true stories.

I can't wait to get around the country, premiering in Perth January twenty one.

Then I've got eight days at the State Theater Center there.

I then do Albany and Mandras, a little Western Australian tour.

I come back to New South Wales Brunswick Picture House.

Shout out to you, cost Jeddy Theater, shout out of Vocer Beach a Voker Beach Theater, my hometown.

That's all in March.

Can't wait to do that.

We're doing Canberra Comedy Festival, Newcastle Fringe, then we're doing Adelaide Fringe.

It's going to be mad, it's going to beautiful.

I can't wait to see you out there.

Yes, and then after Adelaide Fringe, we've also got Melbourne Comedy Festival.

All those tickets will be on sale by December fifth.

There's a whole stack on sale right now.

Where my show and you're talking about stand up comedy before, where my show is different.

It's not stand up comedy.

I tell true stories, so it's a little more theatrical.

I like to describe it as you'll get the laughs without the anxiety.

The stand up thing is a bit a but all of this and then we've done this and get back and put the focus back on to Jubes because as a stack Moore questions of yours that I want to get to.

But it's then come out of these true stories I write.

For a storytelling night that my wife and I host are on the Central Coast at Gosford, the last Sunday of every month.

That's called Brave Words Life, True Stories Told Well.

We invite guests to tell stories.

My wife and I write a story and it's simply this a true story.

Now, the stories don't have to be funny, they have to be true and told well.

They're about thirteen minutes long.

So we're also releasing the podcast of that next week, so have a Google around of that.

It's going to be called Brave Words the Podcast.

And from that, what you'll get is stories from people that you might have heard of, some people with a profile.

The engine room of this show will come from the incredible stories we've got from our community, from people that have done some writing classes with my wife, people that have just written a beautiful story and sent it to us, and these stories.

When a community gets together and has the bravery to share stories and listen to stories, it's a closer community.

It's easier to imagine the hardship others are going through.

Gary, I don't need to tell you this, man, there's a lot of people doing it tough, real tough.

I think there's a lot of power in telling stories, and that's why I like the forum of podcasts like you're going in the media, and I've worked in all aspects, all different aspects of media.

People ask what I do now, and I sort of how do I describe what I do?

Or what do you do?

And I like to think I'm a storyteller and letting people tell stories.

And I love telling stories or hearing people stories, and the stand up comedy space or even in not even but the way you do it and the way you do it, it just stimulates, doesn't it.

It's really good to sit down and get to get a piece of that.

All right, let's get back into some things now.

During the break, Yellowise and I were talking about some of the prestigures that occur as detective and she said to him, and she said, man, it's Gary.

He seems like a really nice guy.

I can't imagine him being a.

Guy no way.

Yes, well, you haven't seen him interrogate somewhere, so I thought we might jump into that space for the least.

Now we want to play this one, Okay, an interrogation, Yeah, okay, I reckon, you have to be the suspect, Yeah, suspect.

Okay, all right, there's something about him, there is something.

I mean that Daily Mail article.

I saw that article, Rob.

I didn't bring it to your attention because I wanted to protect you.

Jacobson didn't want to protect He said it straight to me, along with the message, mate, you should see what they've written about me specifically over the year.

Oh my god.

Yeah.

Anyway, Okay, so let's hypothetical.

Rob's the Robs the suspect.

We've just talked about your two shows.

You're both put in on a show at let's say m More Theater.

Terrific.

Wow, that's been beautiful.

Yeah, listen to me sell out.

On a Saturday night, Rob's driving along and he gets stopped by a uniform please, and they get him out, search his car and they find a bag of cannabis.

Let's say so that that's that's the crime that we're dealing with.

Not a huge crime, Yeah, it's a crime.

I'll be the local detective sergeant.

Okay, you can be the detective senior constable.

So I love this for me.

Oh wow, how long has she been on the job for She got from very early into detectives.

She's probably detective senior constable at least five or six years.

Hell yeah, yes, ready, and I've got yeah I'm going.

If I make a run for it, Rob, tell me where I am?

Am I cuffed?

Just let me get the book at first?

Am I cuffed?

Not yet?

So please remain in your vehicle.

That's good.

No, but you're not there yet.

We've been called out.

Uniform police have stopped Rob.

You're practicing your lines on the way there.

Okay, I mean.

I've rung rung you, and you've said there's bloke.

He's been there, found some drugs in his car.

He's been arrested.

Uniform blokes are too busy to deal with it, so we need to.

We've been there's uniform blokes are always too bloody busy, aren't they?

This is my character.

So what we do?

I get called out?

Ye, I've called out detective Senior Constable Foss and we're on the way to Newtown Police station.

You're at Newtown, you're.

Going to arrests, carry jubil and we're a lot.

So what we do.

We've got Rob Carlton and everyone's got a weakness.

And that's what I think before I go into an interview room, what's their weakness?

And I look at Rob and I'm saying he's not is he like he's not.

There's something you know what we call him in the cops, like soft head.

Yeah, that's what we call them, a.

Bit of a soft head.

But what's his weakness?

What we call them, that's what we call him.

That is what you call them animals?

Yeah, soft head.

So there's two ways of approaching Rob.

Now we're going to find his weakness.

Look in his background, because they're printed out his background that he was an actor and all that sort of stuff.

So yeah, reasonably successful.

I guess what's so I'll try it first, Like we work out different ways of breaking this person.

See what he's got.

I don't think I've got a weakness.

I think you're stuffed.

I come in, I come into the interview room first, and Rob.

Calton Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, honestly we could.

I don't know why they've made I was just driving on King Street.

This is sure you got more important, Rob.

Carp And I was just asking is that your name?

Su Yes?

Yeah, And I'm Detective Sergeant Garry Dublin.

Now I've been called out by the uniform police.

Your car has been pulled over in King Street in search of the car found the bag of canvas.

Like I said to honestly, mate, no idea, no idea.

Just stop there for a moment.

So you're just I'm walking, you're you're just coming into Yeah, you've arrived.

Take a seat.

Jesus is constant concentrate.

So we're in the interview room.

I introduce you.

Now.

This is Detective Senior Constable Eloise.

Detective Senior Constable after us.

Hello, mister Carton.

Okay, so I'm the experience detective.

We've got him in the room.

Now we're out of the room.

I'm going to say we're going to have to exploit his weaknesses.

Everyone's got a weakness.

I'm thinking this soft head that's his vanity.

God, he is a soft head.

He looks pretty vain thinking about him a bit of a Yeah.

Those actors all are, aren't they They're all of it.

Let me have a chop at him first.

No please, no, no no, absolutely.

It doesn't doesn't work, I reckon.

The other thing is you be susceptible to your approach?

Yes, you know what I mean.

Absolutely?

You saw him on that white lad.

What a creep that's what.

What a creepy?

People?

Too much getting there?

All right?

Rob Carlton, Yeah, you're the actor, aren't you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seen you in so many different shapes.

Incredible.

What was it?

What was your favorite?

Oh, when you played Kerry Packer.

Oh yeah, look I loved I mean, obviously a real honor to be playing a business icon.

You you won a LOGI for that, didn't you.

Yeah?

Yeah, mate, I did, I did, I did.

I got nominated for a few other ones as well.

Yep, congratulations, you're getting a sense.

He's just he's but now I'm going to flip it on him.

So that tough.

It was a tough role out carry.

Sorry, you realize what you're here for.

Yeah, mate, certain plog down there has just gotten all out a hand.

I was just that was Senior Constable Bowden.

He's been in the police for ten years.

He's are you referring to the police officer at the rest?

Yeah, he was a good bloke, now you mention it.

Yeah, yeah, he was all right.

He had his police dog Spike.

Yeah.

Those dogs were certainly showing out.

Interesting anyway, let's get back to it.

The cannabis in your car is that yours?

No?

Absolutely not, never seen it before in my life.

Is that your car that you're driving?

Yeah?

Yeah, I didn't steal the car.

Detective, You've got to set the keys to the car.

Yep, you realize where the car has beens stopped at the moment we're doing the forensic examination, the car clearly hasn't been broken into it.

So who else has access to the vehicle?

If that, if that bag of cannabis is not yours?

Who else has access to the cannabis?

I mean my wife of kids.

Okay, So your wife and kids drive the car.

Is that what you're saying to do?

Okay?

And you're telling me that cannabis is not theirs.

They're definitely not theirs and not yours, not mine either, Okay, I don't know how it got there.

Well, mister Carton, this is how we're going to play this, Okay.

I'm going to send uniform police around to your house at the moment, and we're going to wake up your wife and inform her that you're under arrest.

We'll also how are you boys?

Okay, Well, they're.

Adults and the lord.

There's only four people who have got access to the vehicle.

There's a bag of cannabis in there.

You're telling me that that cannabis is not yours?

I don't care if I'm charging you, your wife, or either of your two sons, but clearly someone owns the cannabis.

I don't think you're going to need to bring her in at this point.

I know we'd said it up, but I did, like once you got to dipping my wife and charl Spike.

I am a real detective, mister Carton, and I actually resent the fact that you think I resent the fact that you think I shouldn't be here.

No, I was, That's not what that is.

What did you assume I was a senior person.

She was a junior person.

That's actually quite sexist of you, mister Carlton.

No, because I just a bit of a method acting sort of.

Look, thanks for mentioning.

I did actually get right into it.

Well, I would like to know is there sort of a magical marijuana fairy that is putting this cannabis in your car?

Because who would own?

Who would be putting it into your car?

Should we be calling your sons?

Your wife?

This is at this hour, this is awful.

Everyone's vulnerableable.

You could you could approached this with I reckon.

I can't do what you could do, but I reckon if if you was that good?

But if you lean in the Rob, we can make this girl away.

Rob, you just you just got to tell the truth.

Just tell the truth.

You'll be charged.

You're probably wondering what's going to happen.

I can't promise you bail.

Let's out of my control.

But I imagine in my experience, you probably would get BA and you'll be home with your wife and kids.

See that's not that's a warm that's good, cap.

You're cop.

Let's let's assume he's a blake the character he played on White Ladies just come in.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, if I was to do that one.

So let's do it that.

We're just so you interview me like you just did and try and use my wife and kids, and I'll be that guy.

Okay, focus, Rob, we can make this problem go away.

I don't care.

It's not a problem for me.

You can go, it can stay.

You don't care.

Well, I've already explained to you the cannabas is in your car.

I've had a forensic examination on your vehicle.

No, I'm not the only person that can get into the car.

That's your wife and two children.

That's right.

Are you saying that it's not.

Yours, so it's not mine.

So you're happy for me to send police around to your home now and speak to your wife and your two children.

Well, I mean, if it's a pot, we better get to the bottom of it.

Okay, if that's the way you want to play.

It, mister Carlton.

Look, we've got a lot.

We'd like to go home ourselves.

We're really too Okay, it's at the same spot.

Okay, absolutely not.

This is this is a bit much, mister Carlton.

I resent the fact that you would pin your your cannibal.

Okay, none of your business, your business, Okay, answer the question.

Answer the questions, mate.

That.

It's hard to interview.

I'm gonna say that the question is.

Harder to Is it hard to interview people with no.

In the interview room.

You can set the you set the tone, whether it's you keep it light because that might be the best way you try to make that make that connection, or you can intimidate through your professionalism.

But what you never let them do, I think is see that they get you rattled.

You've always you own the interview room.

You're going to control the interview room.

If you come in and it looks like they're getting the better of you.

You cut it the moment that you as you strength, the moment you see if I'm rattle, say no, matter what you say, it's poker face and not going to give you anything.

I'll give you emotion if I think it's going to help.

Like exploiting your vanities and saying.

That's the third time you've said that.

You told me I had to say it for otherwise we weren't coming on that podcast.

It's just a vanity stuff.

I mean, I know it's there, but you know, I obsessed.

I'm going to jump back into another question.

Yes, you've got so many questions from your podcast.

Do you prefer interviewing the cops or the crims?

Oh?

Yeah, it's that's interesting the police.

Sometimes I like to fall back into the world of policing because it's something that was a part of for a very long time.

But I know I know a lot of cops, so for a new experience speaking to speaking to the criminals, it's quite interesting because I sit opposite people that I never thought i'd get a chance to sit opposite and have conversations with them, and these people that, yeah, we basically are chene meets for our whole career, and now I can sit down and we find common ground and I quite quite enjoy it.

But diversity, I think with a podcast, and I know you laugh when I say two hours a week is a lot of work, but it's interesting with the diversity.

I think with a podcast, we're done over five hundred episodes now, and you've got to mix up the guests.

I can't.

If I spake to just all cops the whole time, I'd get bored with it.

If I spake the crooks, I'd get bored with it.

So diversity is the thing that the thing I joined.

I saw a post the other day.

It was a super tough, rough looking guy.

He used to be a sergeant in arms with an agent Bucky Gang doing that thing where he was standing in front of me and he was just saying and he was talking a million miles an hour, and he's like, man, I just this happened, and this happened.

I just want everyone to know that this is no good and that doesn't play out the way then oh my life and all of that, and you just I was so pleased for this fellow.

Yeah, right, that was a life.

Yeah, right, because that's not always given in that line of work, and that then he was like, you know what, I made a stack of bad choices and now I'm trying to make them better.

How do we help a guy like that try and get that information to the younger people that are that are having a tough time because a lot of people in your experience to most people realize at some point that being that criminal or there's a violence to the way you're making your money.

Do most people figure it out that it's not the way to go out there?

There's usually there's some of the career criminals and or inherently bad that not going to change.

But that's a small percentage.

You know, the psychos are the ones that need to be taken off the street.

It's probably ten percent of the criminal world.

There's a lot that will choose the life of crime because that's they don't see there's a bad thing that's their career.

I put that sort of twenty thirty percent of the type of criminals.

Then you've got that roughly sixty seventy percent of people that have made mistakes.

Circumstances have steered them down the path.

They've made mistakes they're the ones that I think we could change, and I think good role models.

I love the stories of redemption with the criminals that have turned their life around, and I think that messaging needs to get out to the younger boys and girls that oh, this isn't the way to go, This isn't the life you want to live.

Look, this is what I did.

I spent twenty years locked up.

That's not what you want to do.

So I think that messaging needs to get out.

That's where we can make the difference.

Jails.

I did that Breaking Badness series where I went into the maximum security prison and that was a real eye opener.

And they were treating maximum security prisoners with more giving them more sense of responsibility, allowing them to integrate back into society.

Because that to reduce recidivism rate.

I reckon that should be the benchmark for the way prisons.

Prisons are run.

It was such a healthy environment in that the prisoners were prepared or being prepared to come back out and integrate in this society.

And it's not getting soft on prisoners.

They had to work, I think it was six hours a day and then study six hours a day, and then they get one day off a week, but it was a built self esteem.

They all lived in a dorm, Like twenty five maximum prisoners in a dorm, all living in there.

I thought it would be a bloodbath, but they realize this is their chance to turn their life around.

And I met quite a few impressive people in prison, and some have reached out to me since they've been out of prison and I'm catching up with them and I like, what the what they're doing?

Wow, amazing.

So I've got I'm going to ask a question here from Chad.

What's the worst case you have dealt with in your career as a homicide detective.

List?

There's a list like any time a life has been taken, it's horrendous and the impact that it has.

It's a ripple effect with homicide, So one person is killed, but the amount of lives that are destroyed following on from that.

Me personally, ones that I do a lot of a lot of I call them short term homicides where you get called out, you're the on call team, you investigate it, you might be involved in it for a very long time.

So the ones that stick with me personally, the ones that I've been caught up with for a long time, obviously the bower of all one people who've listened to the podcasts of three Aboriginal children, Colin and Evelyn and Clinton who were murdered.

The case that cost me my career, the William Tyrell case, I think is disgraceful.

What's happened.

I ran it for four years, it's now been going for five or six years since, and we've still got no answers.

In fact, Brooksy Smith, one of your listeners, wants to know, do you still lose sleep over that matter?

Yeah, it's too dramatic to say a toss and turn.

It's weighs heavily on my mind.

I think lives have been damaged and destroyed and we still haven't got answers.

And I say it every time I have an opportunity to say publicly, think there should be an inquiry about the William Tyrell matter, whether that's a parliamentary inquiry or a public inquiry, and let's find the truth out about what's what's happened on that investigation, because I certainly don't feel comfortable with what I've seen go on for the past six years.

All Right, I just say, well, there's so many good questions, but let's lead with the question.

Okay, sorry, this is the one because I think this is quite interesting.

How do you because god, it would be hard not to feel personally attached to some of these cases.

But how do you get over it when you know this is from ROMPA?

How do you get over it when you know someone is guilty of murder is not convicted at trial?

Is Is that really hard?

Yeah?

And it happens.

I get over it personally if I think myself and my team wherever I'm saying, oh, you're working in the team homicide, if we've done everything that can be done, then you've got to accept the decision.

Otherwise it would destroy you and people mentors that I looked up to taught me that you can't.

You can't carry the weight of the result of the court matters.

The only thing you can control is doing everything that you can so you can let it go and you still think about it.

That can piss you off.

I know people are involved in murders of the walking the street.

I don't like it, but that's the system we've got and you've got to accept it.

Yeah.

Hey, guys, it's Gary Jubilan here.

Want to get more out of VI Catch Killers.

Then you should head over to our new video feed on Spotify where you can watch every episode of I Catch Killers.

Just search for I Catch Killers video in your Spotify app and start watching today.

I've got a question around your interview guests, Right, it's extraordinary what you've done with regards to trying to bridge that gap between the cops and the crimps, if you want to put it like that, and certainly looking at that salvation story, of the redemption story that you really like, I think we can also agree and only a naive child wouldn't believe this, is that a lot of the people in this space are sociopathic, super bright, very manipulative.

Have you ever gone into an interview felt in the moment that it had been going well that this person's turned a new leaf, they've got a new direction that is society focused, and then come away from that and suddenly felt the slick, filthy slide of yuck on you as you've fallen under the spell of a sociopath.

Yeah, I'd like to think that as a police officer, as long as I was and doing the type of work I was, I had a good rad After that, I'm out of the police now, and it's a different dynamics when I'm sitting opposite someone and talking in terms of guess there was one on that I had doubts about just had a bad energy.

And I've had murderers on and all sorts of things.

I can read people, and there was one person that I thought had a bad energy.

You wouldn't have listened to listen to the podcast because we didn't play it a record.

Lovel So that's the full dump button.

And so that was just an instint because there are a lot of questions here from your listeners.

Yeah, what's the instinct, what's the procedure?

Yeah, that was instinct and just a sense of it.

Okay, that mightn't be the real story of redemption.

I'm looking for here, and look at it's an easy, easy mark.

I'm looking for interesting people.

They reach out come on here.

And often these people are very, very interesting.

I've got the X cop and talking there.

He's standing beside me saying, yeah, well done.

I look at that.

But the other thing, and I think we've got to understand this with podcasts, podcast world, I let people tell their stories, the listeners can form their views.

Yes, like I'm not the gatekeeper here of yeah, do I let this person.

I always say, if I invite a guest on, I'm not going to intentionally do you any harm.

So that's my starting point.

So don't bring them in and set them up and beat up on someone and rip them apart.

Why we've got the cameras on.

But I also give the audience the respet enough.

They don't like all the guests I've got on, and you know, sometimes I might like the guests, but I will be polite.

I will provide a platform for the guests to tell their story and let the audience form the view.

That's I think that's where we lack in media because there's such a narrative that can be driven by some forms of media, whereas in the podcast world, you've listened to us for two hours, you form your own view.

I'm not going to vouch for the person.

You decide whether you like them or not like them.

I think that's the safe, safest way.

Wow, that's a that I guess is a character actor.

I'm super drawn to that notion.

Have people that are very good presenting falsity and coming across and you know, and there are some of the you know.

I mean, look at someone like Jeffrey Epstein.

I mean he the world was his oyster for a long long time, and that guy was a monster for all of it.

Yeah.

Look, and people can put up that fast and present present a certain way.

I think there's people that are greatly respected because of the position they hold that the apps creeps and drop kicks.

But yeah, let's I don't look at the title of the position.

I look at the person.

And one thing that's I've learned since I've been out of the cops, because I don't hang around with cops.

Now the people I'm speaking to, and there might have been some of the people, lots of people that have done time in prison or whatever, but I can tell the character of the person.

And I find some people that they might have spent paid their debt to society, but I rate them in terms of ethics and morals higher than some of the people.

I work within the police, and I don't want to come across as shit bagging police.

I like the police.

There's some great cops in there, but like every walk of life, there's good ones and there's bad ones.

What's the I'd be fascinated and I was thinking about this when I was out in the surf the other day.

I've got no idea why I probably need to speak to someone about that.

The reason what I was thinking was I'd be very, very interested in knowing what the average percentage of having a conviction in the general public.

Does it go up for police officers and ex police officers.

So if you've been part of the place, is that part of our society, does it have a higher criminal rate?

Because I don't know many cops.

The ones I do, most of them have records.

Because then I was thinking about corruption inside the force.

I was thinking about, are there groups of criminals right now going Okay, let's get son one and cousin four to join the force, so that we've got sleepers twenty.

Do you think that goes on?

Look, it might.

There might be the odd and I think in history, not recent history, there's been cases where someone's been checking something for their friend or their cousins or their family, So that might go on.

I think we've cops and I haven't really I don't think there's a higher percentage, But I think cops you've got a certain type of character.

They might be some risk takers that might skew the statistics on criminal charges.

I'm thinking of it.

I know a few cops that have been criminally charged, and some of them are for legitimately bad offenses when they when they leave, there's a lot of people that resent their time in the police.

And it's funny and I think power crups, and I think power that you have in the cops.

A lot of people leave the cops and resent authority like they're very anti don't you tell me what to do?

Yeah, because they've had that power even when you're in the cops.

It was and I identified it in myself.

If someone's telling you, a security guard telling you, and it might be so, can we just check your bag?

You're thinking, and you wouldn't react, but your mind's ticking over.

I'm a cop, and I could imagine saying that out aloud, not thinking that, being such a dickhead if you did so.

I think that our sort of has the potential to corrupts.

Do that.

Some actors do that.

They'll be like, do you know who I am?

As you get this is this really really interesting thing that happens in the human body as you get older.

There's certain things you know, we've done a great thing.

It's made us feel good, our pride has increased, and that might be the very thing that makes us behave badly the next day, because it alters our sense of self, our sense of entitlement, and all of those things.

So as an underline on that conversation to all the cops out there listening, man, I completely honor what it is to serve the community.

I respect and understand that at three o'clock in the night, when some poor kid has decided to end it, they're the ones.

It's the cops that are ones that have gone start knocking on doors and talking to parents.

With every part of that job, there comes a tough bit that I wouldn't want to do, and I don't know how I'd go emotionally managing that bucket filling every day.

Yeah, it's fun I was speaking to a Scotland yard detective far Scotland.

You have detective on this and I've done a lot of homicides and all that, and he said, I asked him that question, did it effect you?

And he said, it's funny.

When I left the cops, I started to become more emotional.

When I was in the cops, I didn't, and that resonated with me.

Like when I was the hard ass homicide detective, I did not have time to wallow in the emotions and that and you would have it, but you would just move on because you're onto the next thing.

When I step away now, like I'm looking back, and some of it sort of oh Jesus, that was heavy, And yeah, some things become more emotional because I think you allow yourself to release that emotion.

Where isn't the cops You couldn't be this blubbering mess because you had to get up and get to the job the next day or whatever.

Yeah, well that's probably a bit of a point to lift off.

We think of all the people and what it takes that emotional strength and that courage to keep getting up, to pick yourself up, to take those hits.

And that's what life's about, isn't it.

Yeah, constantly taking me the good and the bad, and it affects us in certain ways.

But one thing we know for sure, the sun will rise and will either be people that can smile at others or not smile at others.

And my hope is that we as a society leaning towards more people that have the enough bandwidth to smile at a stranger.

Well, I think yeah, with the way the world is like, if we're too judgmental and the world's like I had to learn something upskill on the AI because I was doing the talk at the convention center with someone that was an expert on it, and I've been falling down the rabbit hole there.

The world is going to change.

We need people to be able to resilient people.

We need people to be able to communicate.

And that's what by just getting back and this is sort of reflection on the year because it's a Christmas special for the podcast.

The people that have come on the journey with me, like we get there's been over forty two million downloads.

Now, that's that's a hell hell of a lot on the podcast.

But I think they get where I'm coming from with this in that we're hearing the guest story, we're forming views.

Sometimes we might in a groove everything you say or you say it will take a little bit of that or a little bit from me, and I think it makes it a better better place.

But yeah, and in.

Speaking of better places, Eloise f Tos, what is your favorite Christmas gift to either receive or gift so that we can offer our listeners for people like me that panic like, hell, oh.

My gosh, this is a tough one.

I feel like people are doing more of the experience thing, and I think that's quite nice instead of rushing around going oh, I'll just get a candle or just get a pair of boxes or whatever.

I think sometimes a nice little voucher for a movie or a dinner or a shot.

I love it.

But even then I'm going.

To catch killers Christmas special.

If you want a great gift, whether they look there, there.

We go well as well say yeah, coming to you.

We don't know the name of your show next, well, it.

Might be the working titles Aphrodity, so it might still be that.

We'll see.

But you can find my on my Instagram.

I have everything on there, so it's a Weezer Squeezers, my Instagram handle we is at a squ is at a and yeah I post everything on there, all my shows and all the links and everything.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's a great thing.

That's me and you Rob definitely.

So all my tickets will be on sale by December five.

There's a whole stack on right now.

The reason I'm really excited to offer this up as a Christmas present.

I've got all my ticketing prices have twenty five dollars for under twenty fives, so I've got I've got adult pricing for normal festival pricing for the main tickets, but twenty five dollars for under twenty fives.

For two reasons, One, I want more people in their early to mid twenties getting out coming to see my show.

Is I cover a lot of stuff that I think is really great for those mid twenties, and honestly, I bury myself in my twenties, man, and so I want to share that so that you at list younger people don't have to bury yourselves.

But the other reason is because families can come to this show together.

I want if you're a parent out there and you've got a kid that's between twenty five and fifteen, and you're feeling you want to have more conversations or different conversations.

If you were to come to my show with your child or your younger friends, then my stories will generate conversations for you because I'm going to tell you things that you're going to go, oh God, really and in your heart of hearts you're going to know, Yeah, I did something like that too, So I'll bring it up.

Well you guys, and you guys can chat about show.

I never thought i'd be laughing about the incests anyone could make that.

I'm going to finish up Gary, my friend, my dear dear friend.

Christmas for Gary jubil And what does Christmas for Jubes look like in twenty twenty five.

You've been through such an extraordinary year, extraordinary five years.

Tell me about Christmas for you this year.

You might come as a shock, but I'm not a real Christmas type person, and I think.

That was because you look like a borable.

But I just like to like to have a break.

I can.

My kids are living all over the place.

I think we're catching up.

So I'm going to get some get some time with them, maybe a quick overseas trip.

I've got a fairly busy year.

Next year, you've.

Got another retreat.

So Gary goes on these amazing as well.

He does.

He does his sugun, does his chug meditations.

And this is why he's looking relaxed.

I'm going that's.

Why look any specific place, not not the stage, just sorting a couple of things out.

But life's pretty good for me at the moment.

Robert.

I know you've seen me at my highs and you've seen it's got to do with relationships and work and stuff like that.

But it's in a pretty good space at the moment.

So yeah, I'm looking forward to looking forward to Christmas.

I hope you two have a great Christmas.

And thank you so much for coming on.

Lovely yea and on behalf of the listeners gerbs mate, thank you.

Thank you for all the work you do and the conversations you bring and just getting up every day.

I did make a joke about working for two hours a week.

I know how hard you work.

I can't tell you how much I respect the work that you put in the reading that you do, and I know that your listeners when the camera's off, I just I just know the world's richer for you in it, my mate.

Yeah, well, yeah, here mutual admiration.

You've helped me a lot during tough times and we've had a lot of fun doing it.

So it's great, and thanks for introducing that.

This is beautiful.

But I love this as well, this beautiful romance.

I'm going this is how I love to see men talk like this about each other, and I hope that more of you, all the listeners, are doing that for you know, them and their friends as well.

That's so lovely, guys, cool than thanks for having us.

Thank you guys, Sia