Hold on, ed.

What you're trying to tell me is they made a bunch of men share responsibility for power and it didn't work out.

They couldn't all just get along.

And you know, best idea wins.

Believe it or not.

I mean, this is like the one time a bunch of dudes like didn't get it right.

How do you say penis measuring contest in French?

Do you know?

Contest?

Welcome to Snaffo, the Show about History's greatest screw ups.

I'm at Helms and today I am joined by the Emmy and Peabody Award winning journalist, host of the iHeart podcast, Good Game, all around sports fanatic.

And also she's someone who I recently met and just happened to adore.

It is the one and only Sarah Spain.

Thanks so much for having me and saying that that's so nice.

Well right on, we hit it off.

Yeah, we we were both in Austin at south By Southwest for some iHeart podcast fun and yeah, it was just fun to connect.

Did you have a good time down there?

I did.

That was actually my first time at south By Southwest.

And I know that the iHeart treatment is not what everyone gets because we were in that beautiful hotel and never really had to leave.

I just got to roll.

Out of bed, walk out into this beautiful yard, and go to different parties for awesome people in their podcasts.

I know sometimes people have to actually go to I think conference rooms and meeting areas and things like that.

We just got to hang out with cool people like you.

And so I loved it at the Hotel Saint Cecilia, which is, oh, what a gorgeous spot.

So, Sarah, I asked this, of all my guests on snapho, what is this snaffhoo from your life?

A personal snaphoo of some sort?

I will I will try to tell this story type because it has many twists and turns, but I think the payoff is worth it.

So let's just say I have terrible sets of direction.

And I am also a multitasker, which puts me in the position where I'm leaving a physical therapy appointment that is only about fifteen minutes away from my home.

I am trying to be on a conference call while driving while plugging into my GPS.

The closest Mariano's grocery store here in Chicago.

I see one that pops up and it says Ashland.

I'm like, yep, that's the one near me.

I hit go.

I'm still taking the conference call.

I start driving.

I realize I've selected one that is not the one that's near me.

But since I'm driving and I don't really have hands to plug it in again, I'm like, whatever, I'll just go to this when it can't be that far.

It's pretty far.

The problem is that on the way there, I acquire a flat tire.

So I don't know this yet, but I go into the grocery store.

I buy all my groceries.

I put my credit card in the pocket of my giant puffer coat and not where I normally put it because my hands were full and I'm still on the conference call.

That's a black hole a puffer code pocket, Yeah, get it.

And it was polar Vortex.

This was a couple of years ago in Chicago, where we had multiple names for how cold it was in Chicago Snopra, snowmaged, and polar vortex, et cetera.

So I go outside, discover the flat tire, don't have triple A anymore.

Call my husband, of course, he's who I call whenever I screw things up.

He plugs and he's like, oh my god, why are you like thirty blocks south or whatever it is.

And I'm like, don't ask, just come help me.

Right, So this meantime snowballing, Yeah, well done.

So in the meantime, I've tried to go across the way to an auto zone or something.

Who can't help me, which feels strange.

It feels like the place that you would go if you have an auto problem.

But no, right next to there is a party City.

So I'm like, I'll just pop into party City really quick and walk around.

While I'm waiting for my husband to come fix the tire, I see a bunch of stuff.

I don't buy anything.

I use the bathroom, I come out, he fixes the tire, and on the way home, I say, you'd be very proud of me.

I did not buy the football shaped platter for the upcoming Super Bowl because I know we have too much stuff, and he's like, hey, I'm proud of You're always buying garbage.

We don't need fast forward.

We get near home, I walk down the street to get us a sandwich and realize I don't have my credit card, but I still have to go do my live radio show.

So while I am going home to get ready, my husband is graciously driving back to the party city on the new tire we got to get my credit card.

I go home, I start to prep for my show.

My dog comes out of a side room looking real weird, and then he proceeds to vomit all over the brand new carpet I just installed the day before, and it was one of those things where he had a different kind of accident and then ate it to clean it up and then put both into the carpet, if that makes any sense with that being too graphic.

So instead of cleaning it, oh this is bar and.

Yeah, shit, vomit dookie in the same yep.

So I just roll up the rug and put it in the alley.

I don't care that I bought it the day before.

I'm not cleaning it.

This is the worst day ever.

I literally just throw it in the alley.

Did the right thing.

You did the right thing.

I go upstairs to host my show, and during a commercial break, I get a text from my husband, got your card, photo of him holding the credit card, and the second photo is him holding a football platter that he bought for me to make sure that my day improved.

Oh fabulous.

That is not a snafoo.

That is a cascading sort of just a blender of snafoos all wrapped up into one.

You will not be surprised to learn that that rug was gone by the next day.

You could put almost anything in an alley in Chicago and someone will give it a go.

Somebody took it put in their house and was like whoa, and then put it in their alley and it's basically just bouncing around apartments in Chicago.

I do feel really bad for whoever was like, well, free rug.

Yeah, oh my god.

All right, well, let's get into today's snafoo.

This week's snafoo takes us back to one of the most famous bad ideas in military history.

It was bold, it was brutal, and spoiler alert, it did not go as planned.

But before we get into snowstorms and supply chains and a very stubborn little general, we've got to rewind a bit all the way back to seventeen eighty nine, when one country decided enough of this damned monarchy and regime.

It is time for revolutionione.

Can you guess, yes, yes, we're talking about I took like seven years of high school French or something like some crazy amount for seven years.

Wow, that explains a lot.

I started in junior high.

I started junior high, then took it, took the French through high school, and then I think it did a year in college.

All I got from it was this accent.

That's all I could do.

It's pretty good.

Did you start with?

Because I think that's what everyone started with in junior high French was the Tibaut family.

Oh does any even remember that?

That means, oh great, the puppet show.

The Guinola is like a famous one remembers that it's not a German for some reason.

That's not what you want when you're trying to speak French.

It's seventeen nineties in France and it was a wild time.

Guillotines heads rolling all over the place.

Sorry not sorry, lou the sixteenth and Marie Antoinette.

It was a time of mass bloodshed and became known as the Reign of Terror.

Over twenty thousand people were executed for things like being anti revolutionary, or religious or just a little too fancy.

How do you think you do during the Reign of Terror?

I yes, I've thought about this many times.

I think I was born in a good time, seeing as I am a very outspoken woman who does not follow any guidance based on the lanes in which I should inhabit or otherwise.

So I think it would go one of two ways.

Either I would die almost immediately upon being old enough to speak for myself, and they would be like, Nope, she's going to be a problem and I would be out.

Or because I'm very tall and athletic, I would be one of those women who who cosplayed as a man in order to both receive great goods and wealth and also dominate some sort of army or take some sort of leadership position where people didn't realize that I was actually a lady.

I like that version, but I don't think you would need to even pretend to be a man like I feel like like Joan of arc was this was like of this kind of ilk and oh, I feel like the French get powerful.

Women, powerful women.

Yeah, maybe I could just be one for the history books.

Eventually, the chaos of late seventeen hundreds of France hit a wall when Maximilian Robespierre, head revolutionary and chief vibe killer, was executed in seventeen ninety four.

The next year, France handed the keys to the kingdom to a five person governing body called the Directory.

It honestly sounds less like a governing body and more like some horrific database in which Mark Zuckerberg has collected all of our thoughts so that he can finally control the world.

Yeah, or potentially like a Soho house type spot in New York that you have to pay a real big sum of money to join, where you both learn your advanced biometrics and what age you'll die and also get to smoke cigars in.

A room that no one else is allowed in.

Yeah, and that, and but also it's secretly a cult.

Have you joined the Directory?

Part of the Directory?

Are the Directory?

Or it sounds like Handmate's tale?

Yeah, surprise, surprise.

The Directory was a total mess, corruption, instability, NonStop drums and eventually hold on ed.

What you're trying to tell me is they made a bunch of men share responsibility for power and it didn't work out.

They couldn't all just get along and you know, best idea wins.

Believe it or not.

I mean, this is like the one time a bunch of dudes like didn't get it right.

How do you say, penis measuring contest in French?

Do you know?

Corruption?

Instability?

NonStop drums And eventually the French public started craving some real leadership again.

And that's when a famously short, strategic, and wildly ambitious military man entered the picture.

And he guess who we're talking about?

Napoleon Bonaparte?

Bonaparte, Napoleon.

Why is it so fun to do that accent?

I hope it's not too offensive.

It's only an offensive.

It's if it's a bad accent.

I have a very good accent.

Right.

We're also running out of accents we can make fun of without it being a problem, So I think we got to hang on to make in fun of the French.

It's kind of sad that to a lot of Americans, French people are basically the chef in Little Mermaid.

Yeah yeah, yeah, which is preposterous.

Like can you.

Still sing any of that song?

And do you have the rights to sing it on this podcast?

Sacrab What is this?

So on earth?

Could I miss such.

A such a sweet The most amazing thing about that song is that they rhyme poisson with pant he goes he he, that's the most French thing.

Ever, that's a rhyme.

That's part of the lyrics.

Is I love that our brains will forever hang on to that.

There's so many more useful things that should be lodged up in there, but I will forever remember all the lyrics to that.

Yeah, I have a couple of little kids, so it's like still hitting me in the face constantly.

So we're talking about Napoleon Bonaparte.

Born a commoner on the French island of Corsica, Napoleon rose through the military ranks and after saving the Directory's asses from a royalist insurrection, he earned himself a cushy promotion to major general.

But this is France, right, so naturally there's another coup, and in seventeen ninety nine Napoleon overthrew the directory and put himself in charge, introducing first Consul Napoleon Bonapaut.

Do you think it's a sign that France.

Has really nailed the coups because.

We haven't found our own word.

We just took theirs, because coup is a.

French word, right, and we were like, wow, they did it so well, we don't need our own word for it.

I think they just had so many of them that the word was used so constantly and exactly it's their brand.

It's like the French brand to have comment overthrow.

Yeah.

So, once Napoleon took charge, he basically Marie condoed France, cleaned house, reorganized everything.

You know, if it didn't spark joy, it was out of there.

Brought some much needed structure to the post revolution chaos.

He revamped education, tried to set up a meritocracy, and made the country feel like it was finally in grown up hands.

And he was also out there crushing it on the battlefield.

He was winning wars all over Europe.

Of course, all this victory was going straight to his head.

His ego was getting bigger than a French aristocrat's wig.

Come on, solid joke.

It's pretty good.

Are you making fun of him at different turns?

When you said he rose, which would be tough for him because even when standing up it looked like he was sitting and in big hands, but probably quite small because he was.

Known for being a tony man delivered jokes.

Okay, well, believe it or not.

Yeah, So basically what's happening here is that he is just like running rough shot all over Europe.

The napoleonic wars are going on, and he's just kicking ass and he's winning, and he's like getting this bigger and bigger ego, and of course that in classic snap foop form would wind up badly compromising his judgment.

Where's the line between confidence and full blown delusion?

Have you seen ego backfire like in the sports world, Yeah, for sure.

True confidence actually usually manifests in someone who is much more laid back and wants to uplift others and put them in positions of power and empower them to be a part of decision making.

Narcissistic insecurity is usually the kind of ego power trip that results in a dictatorial leader, a boss who's an a hole, or a player who is you know, too diva like in their tendencies and doesn't know how to incorporate the rest of their teammates.

I think famously Michael Jordan was one who I don't know if it was ego so much as it was just an understanding of his own super heroic powers.

But he had to be convinced to embrace an offense that would bring in his teammates, understanding that he was still going to be the main target.

But in order for him to get the ball and shoot it, they needed to make everybody else be a threat as well.

And so that flip from perhaps a little bit too egocentric to team player was really what opened up his greatness.

So I think you can usually tell when somebody is a real leader.

I think that's the phrase.

Leaders don't create followers, Followers make leaders.

Oh I like that.

All right, let's get back to mister Napoleon.

He was getting a little too big for his cute little white britches, and he started he did it again.

Yeah, that one was deliberate, you're right, okay, and he started forcing France's allies into a strict economic boycott of Great Britain.

Most went along with this, but there was one holdout, one stick in the mud, and that was Russia.

Napoleon did not think that that was very bomp.

So guess what he did.

What do you do when another country pisses you off?

Tariffs?

Good answer, you're not correct.

You just invade you're pissed off in another country, you invade them.

It's June eighteen twelve, and Napoleon is really feeling himself a big time.

He's giving major I alone can fix this vibes.

And he's got the largest army Europe has ever seen, six hundred and fifty thousand troops.

And that's not even counting all the mimes who are just pretending to be troops.

Come on, and all the bakers that made the baguettes for the troops every morning.

Yeah, we're courced into battle with begets a sore.

It's when things went awry.

A stale bagette is a that is a weapon for sure, hard as hell.

Yeah, you can't break it tooth, you can't eat it.

You're going to use it on the battlefield for sure.

Can I ask you an honest question, ed, how many guests do you have on this podcast who are listening along and you could tell by their face that they recognize all the dates and names you're saying, and then suddenly realized they retained nothing from school.

And while they've heard of Robes Pierre and they believe eighteen twelve to be a pretty big year.

For some stuff.

Couple, if you made them take a quiz right now, they'd be like, not entirely sure what happened.

Honestly, Marie Antoinette definitely got her head cut off.

I remember that.

It doesn't it doesn't matter, like we're that's what I'm here for.

We're just hanging out, enjoying it together.

And some of these things, like you know, I dip into them as like new research projects from like episode to episode.

But I don't retain stuff either.

No, I was gonna say, if we learned one thing from history, it's that we don't remember history.

Yeah, So with all this military might, Napoleon's like, it's time to teach Russia a lesson.

He's fully convinced they're a total mess.

They're disorganized, underprepared, and just not at all at his level.

And he even claims publicly that this whole thing will be wrapped up in twenty days, which spoiler alert, might be the mother of all jinxes.

I'm curious.

You're an athlete, you cover sports, Like, do you believe in superstitions and jinxes?

Streaks, hot streaks, all that kind of thing.

I don't believe in superstitions, Like, oh, if you sat on the couch in this one specific spot wearing this one specific shirt in your team one, if you change that up, they're going to lose.

I think the average fan has absolutely no import on the outcome.

But there's a guy named Ben Cohen who wrote a book called The Hot Hand, and he actually dove into the concept of whether an athlete is essentially better in the middle of having like the hot hand and the NBA.

Jam if you will, he's on fire.

If there's actually such a thing and it's a really complicated and fascinating look at, like the parts that feel like it's a very clear thing, you're almost in flow state, sure, which most creative types understand, versus whether it's simply about confidence mixed with a trained body.

Right, if you have enough messile memory to remember.

The thing you're supposed to be doing, and you can get so in the flow state and so confident that you're not overthinking anything, you just naturally do the thing successfully over and over again, which then becomes like you're on fire or you're in the zone.

So I believe in it for the athlete.

I do not believe in it for the fan.

I still feel like if I wear the wrong color socks, the Dodgers will lose, so well.

Keep wearing them then, because I'm a Cubs fan.

French troops moved into Russia.

Russian general has deployed a very interesting strategy.

Instead of standing their ground, they just kept retreating again and again, letting Napoleon's troop chase them deeper and deeper into Russian territory.

Why would they do this?

This seems insane, right, Well, it was actually quite savvy because the French were burning through their supplies, getting farther and farther from their reinforcements, and despite the crushing heat and endless mud and tons of disease ravaging all the troops, they kept marching like they took the bait.

They just kept going straight into Russia.

Cue the dramatic music.

Because this was all a trap.

The Russian army was employing what is known as a scorched earth strategy, meaning they would burn down their own towns and torch all of their own supplies as they retreated, basically saying, if we began to have it to neither can you?

Oh no way, they're Russian.

I can't do a Russian accent.

It's very smart.

I mean yeah, I mean it's terrible, but it's brutal but shrewd.

So this scorched earth policy basically meant that Napoleon's army couldn't live off local food stores and supplies, which would be the typical practice of invading army.

And be stroganoffs and such.

Of course, and they really couldn't do anything except keep marching, exhausted and starving deeper and deeper into what was quickly becoming a hellscape.

Now you've been around a lot of competition.

What's more valuable brute strength or sound strategy?

How do you find that balance?

Well, Actually, something I learned in laser tag is you have to have the upper ground.

The most important thing out of the three is you have to have the upper ground so that you could see down upon your enemy, and your strategy improves because you're able to see them and often they can't see you.

Okay, laser tag, In laser.

Tag or in life, once you've established the higher ground.

I am way more into strategy than brute strength.

I believe there's a time and place like a bar fight where brute strength will likely win, and everywhere else where strategicy is involved.

I think it's more about the brain.

Yeah, brains over brawn.

I think you're right.

And I say that because I'm a weakling and I like to think I could persevere in a tough situation Now, despite numerous what we can only imagine to be stern warnings from many of his top advisers about turning around, Napoleon was convinced that he could lead the French army to victory in Moscow.

He was all in on chasing this glory.

At one point he nearly caught the Russians at the city of Smolensk, but instead of pressing his advantage, he paused the march on what happened to be his forty third birthday.

Because nothing says military genius like taking a personal day during a war.

I would presume Champagne was involved, though, right, I guess right.

I mean, it is weird how well the officers lived right in these on these like like they had like these incredible tents with furniture and butlers and servants and all kinds of stuff.

There's a famous Napoleon Champagne quote in victory you deserve it, and loss you need it.

Oh interesting, So it's kind of like just always have it on hand, there you go.

Yeah, I believe you might have been the originator of the sabering.

Oh that would be saying, you know, a Champagne saber.

Oh yeah, I've done it.

Yeah, me too.

I think it's tied back to Napoleon and his thoughts on Champagne.

Don't quote me on that, but that's something I've been to.

I like that.

The only downside of this birthday party is that the party favors were lice and typhus, which is a horrible disease spread by lice.

Oh oh no, oh.

Yeah.

This army was really really bit draggled at this point, so we're settling into a cycle here, chase, scorch repeat.

But there was one proper showdown, and that was on September seventh, eighteen twelve, at the Battle of Borodino.

It was brutal.

Both sides took massive casualties, but the Russians had the edge.

They were closer to home and could rebuild faster.

Napoleon's army not so much.

This raises a good question home field advantage.

Is it always an advantage or is it sometimes a liability.

I would say it's always an advantage.

Yeah, I don't think it's always going to tip the scales, but I would say it's arguably almost never a disadvantage.

Although I can think of a couple places where the ownership was so hated that being at home and still being showered with booze and rage over the decision making of your front office, GM, president, etc.

Might be more frustrating than just being on the road and accepting that the opposing team's fans will hate you.

But I think for the most part, knowing you came from your house and you're going back to it, you know, the lay of the land, all that stuff, maybe you get some hometown whistles because the fans are subconsciously affecting the officiating.

Usually a good thing.

Yeah, And I would think that that just roar of a hometown crowd is going to give you so much adrenaline.

But at the same time, I could see how like going into the sort of den of the enemy could also be like kind of like rage inducing in a powerful way and in a maybe an inspiring way.

Napoleon finally made it to Moscow on September fourteenth.

Victory, right, I mean, it's the capital city of Russia.

He took the capital that's got that should be it like game over.

Not quite.

Napoleon believed capturing Moscow would force Czar Alexander to seek peace, as had occurred with all of the other European capitals he had invaded.

However, he massively underestimated the Russians resolve and their flare for strategic nihilism.

When Napoleon's battered troops entered the city, it was a smoldering husk.

Russian forces had completely torched it their own capital city.

On the way out, civilians had fled.

Supplies were nearly non existent, no food, no shelter, and not even any officials to negotiate with.

And to top it off, the legendary Russian winter was fast approaching.

Oh, this is like when you played the Packers in December.

Yes, you just you know, if you know that you've got an extra man on your side and it's the hail and sleet and you're the Packers and conditions at Lambeau.

Yeah, Yeah, invited the Chicago Bears over and then just left him there.

They got old man Winter on their side.

Yeah, exactly.

Oh, man, that's a great way to think about it.

Things are dire, but Napoleon is still convinced he just won the war, so he sends Czar Alexander a letter politely requesting his surrender.

Now, to be fair, eighteenth century military etiquette did allow for this kind of thing.

But after five freezing, miserable weeks with no response, it became clear Napoleon was just being ghosted like hard and the worst part, he had absolutely no leverage left this.

He's like, I took your capital, I won, and the Russians were just like, sh don't pay him any attention.

He'll leave, And they're right.

That is incredible.

You would never imagine that the goal would be to trash your own place and just retreat, retreat, retreat.

Run away, run away, as.

They said Monty Python, and then it would work because you don't even consider the fact that the opposing side doesn't have any backups.

It's weirdly nihilistic to torch your own city, but they saved their city by doing that.

Weirdly, of course, they had to rebuild, but they it was still theirs.

Because finally, with no food, no shelter, and by the way, fresh whispers of yet another coup brewing back home, Napoleon had no choice.

In mid October, with the first snow starting to fall, he ordered the retreat.

Wow, great timing, having gained nothing nothing, having one nothing gained nothing other than I guess a big chunk of Russia is now ash right, they did achieve burning down a significant number of cities and towns and a big, a big city center in Moscow.

But they weren't able to claim didn't claim anything.

Yeah, it was it was a total loss.

And as we'll soon do you think you.

Went back and said it was a complete and total obliteration.

And then his his people were like, I don't know the.

Journalists of the well we cover Yeah, we had some reporters there.

Story, my friend.

So what was left of the French army, which they lost so many people.

We'll get to the numbers shortly.

But what was left of the army limped away towards the border and finally made it out of Russia in late December of eighteen twelve.

But at this point Napoleon wasn't even with them.

He had actually abandoned his troops to rush back to Paris on December fifth, not because he left the oven on, but because those coup rumors were really heating up.

Now there was actually a coup brewing, and it was quashed pretty quickly.

Still, what kind of coach leaves his players in the dust like that.

There's an NFL player who retired at halftime.

No, it was not an important game.

It was just a regular season game.

But at halftime he was like, yep, think that's about it for me.

What Vonte Davis, Vonte Davis.

That's intense.

Well, this was, needless to say, a brutal escapade.

Let's review the numbers here.

Napoleon had marched into Russia with over six hundred thousand troops fewer than one hundred thousand.

Made it out not good, not a good look, and after this the dominoes started to fall pretty fast.

Napoleon's aura of invincibility was shattered and his enemies pounced.

By eight fourteen, a coalition of major European powers, including Austria, Prussia, Russia, Britain and others, defeated him and sent him into exile on the island of Elba, which is kind of a beautiful island in the Mediterranean, so sounds nice.

Yeah, But Napoleon wasn't done yet.

Less than a year later, he pulled the ultimate surprise bitch and escaped for a brief, chaotic comeback known as the one Hundred Days.

This ended at the famous Battle of Waterloo, where he was trounced again and sent packing again, this time to Saint Helena, which is an extremely remote island way off in the South Atlantic.

They learned their lesson, like, we're not gonna put him in just like a nice fancy place.

Were sent him way the hell away.

Meanwhile, the rest of Europe, traumatized by Napoleon's entire vibe, held the Congress of Vienna to redraw the map, restore monarchies, and basically agree let's never do that again.

Napoleon then died in exile in eighteen twenty one, presumably still wearing that awesome hat, and Europe found a balance.

Napoleon's dead.

Wow, yeah, oh yeah, No, he's dead.

He didn't make it.

He died.

Should put that at the beginning of the episode.

He was still a young man.

We haven't watched history yet.

I think he was in his fifties.

He was like fifty one or something.

Yeah.

Evidently when he went to Saint Helena, his health declined pretty rapidly, in part because it's thought he was such this grand personality and now he was just confined to this remote place with very little going on, and he became depressed and reclusive and his health declined.

Kind of a broken heart Wow.

Yes, so I would have guessed gout.

Yeah, to be honest, I would have guessed gout.

But he died of champagne poisoning.

What a shame.

Yeah.

Do you know how you get gout?

It's literally too much alcohol and rich foods.

Yeah.

I have a friend who got it in college from being a sorority sister.

Yikes.

But it's also a genetic thing, like you have a genetic predisposition for gout.

Sure, but we'll never stop making fun of her forgetting the gout in college.

Yeah.

Do you know Judah Friedlander, the comedian.

He's so amazing.

I've known him from way back doing stand up in New York, like in the nineties, and I remember he got out and he talked about it on stage.

You talk about how it's like your toe becomes like a Fred Flintstone toe.

It looks like you, it looks like you dropped a rock on your toe in a Flintstones cartoon.

And it's now like wah wah, like a red bull pulsating.

Like that's how badly it hurts.

Yeah.

Anyway, so Europe found a balance of power that was actually pretty rock steady until a certain World war broke out in nineteen fourteen.

But that is a story for another snapoo day, and that Sarah Spain, that is our snapfhoo for today.

What did you learn any takeaways from Napoleon's disasters and of Russia?

I mean, one of the things I learned was that there was more strategy even in the days of that kind of town torching battle.

Yeah.

I'm impressed by.

The Russians, which feels like a strange thing to say right now, but truly good plan, well executed.

Yeah about a five stars Russia.

Yeah, And if there's any lesson for Napoleon here, it's like, I mean, I feel like Kenny Rodgers said it best right.

You got to know when to hold them, no, when to fold them, no, whe to walk away, no, when to run.

He should have he should have just thrown in the towel there, and I completely agree.

Unfortunately, this is a vibe we still see a lot of today leaders doubling down instead of backing off, mistaking stubbornness for strength.

We have tech CEOs telling us that AI is going to save us.

Meanwhile, it's really starting to feel like the fast tract of full on dystopia.

I think the thing we started with at the beginning the directory.

The idea of co leading is something that should be getting a lot more attention in many spaces of late, because it prevents that one egotistical, dictatorial person who will not stop themselves from being checked.

And I think in a lot of business and corporate spaces there is a push for the kind of leadership that co leadership would embrace.

Which is best idea wins bring everyone together, utilize the strengths of all the different people, elevate the people beneath you, empower them to make great decisions and do things instead of the sort of.

Micromanaging of one person.

Who needs to double check everything and sign off on everything, which is a complete waste of time, completely ineffective, and empowers one person to believe that the reason for all the success, And that's how you end up like Napoleon, where you've now convinced yourself you're so great that every decision you're making must be the right one.

Every decision you make going forward must be followed.

But no matter whether someone is telling you, hey, maybe there's a reason all these towns are already.

Torched by the time we get to them.

Exactly you think they've got a plan.

Amen, very well, said Sarah Spain.

You just put a book out.

Congratulations, in addition to your amazing podcast All about Sports, tell us about Good Game first.

Yeah, so Good Game with Sarah Spain is the first and only, as far as we know, daily women's sports podcast.

Yes, daily.

It is a lot of work, but it is what was necessary.

The folks who started the iHeart Women's Sports Network reached out and one of them was Sue Bird.

And you can't say no to Sup Bird about really anything, because she's a legend.

But when she said, we want you to do a show for the network, what would it look like?

And I had just gotten out of thirteen straight years of daily radio for ESPN.

I was enjoying my first year of not having a show every day, and I stupidly said, it's.

Got to be a daily show because that's what's miss Ailey.

Because in women's sports, you really you just need the same cadence of learning about the star stak stats and stories that are out there so that you get excited about the games and want to watch them and attend them and buy the merchant.

So we're offering that to people, and people seem to love it, which is great.

That's awesome.

So you have a book.

You just put a book out called Runs in the Family, an incredible true story of football, fatherhood and belonging.

Give me the quick like breakdown.

Well, I wanted to be like you, So I wrote it all in the two weeks between when your book came out and mine came out.

Can you believe it so fast?

No?

So I wrote a story for ESPN and did a feature for ESPN a handful of years ago about this guy, Dylan McCullough.

He's the running backs coach for the Las Vegas Raiders and grew up in Youngstown post steel milk collapse, was adopted, never knew his birth family.

His adoptive dad leaves when he's two, so sort of a troubled relationship with father, figures, gets into football, gets recruited, has a great career until he gets knee injury and becomes a coach, and finally, in his forties, the lost change in Pennsylvania, where he was born, he can get his birth certificate, and he discovers after finding his mom, who never told the dad that she had gotten pregnant, was sent.

Away to have the baby in private.

Like they used to do in the seventies, finds out that his college football coach and mentor of almost thirty years was his birth dad all along and neither of them knew it.

Oh my god.

So it's this really unbelievable story.

But also there's a ton in there about nature versus nurture, what we inherit through blood and DNA, what we inherit through family systems, emotional DNA messages, lessons, all the things.

And so I really wanted to be a book about him because his story is so incredible, but also a book that anyone would read and think to themselves, like, what are the refutable things that I've been passed on that I can't reject or deny?

And what are the things I get to choose to hang on to or pass on.

I can't wait to read this.

It really really sounds insanely inspiring and caract right.

Thank you, Nail.

It's hard.

Yeah, Oh that's awesome.

Thank you so much for coming on, Snaffoo.

It has been an absolute pleasure.

Thanks for having me.

It was really fun.

I actually do feel like I was in history class, but with more cool Internet terms of phrase.

Snappho is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Snapfoo Media, a partnership between Film Nation Entertainment and Pacific Electric Picture Company.

Our post production studio is Gilded Audio.

Our executive producers are me Ed Helms, Mike Falbo, Glenn Basner, Andy Kim Whitney, Donaldson, and Dylan Fagan.

This episode was produced by Alyssa Martino and Tory Smith.

Our video editor is Jared Smith.

Technical direction and engineering from Nick Dooley.

Our creative executive is Brett Harris.

Logo and branding by The Collected Works.

Legal review from Dan Welsh, Meghan Halson and Caroline Johnson.

Special thanks to Isaac Dunham, Adam Horn, Lane Klein and everyone at iHeart Podcasts, but especially Will Pearson, Kerry Lieberman, Nikki Etor, Nathan Otowski and Alex Corral.

While I have you, don't forget to pick up a copy of my book, Snaffoo, The Definitive Guide to History's Greatest screw Ups.

It's available now from any book retailer.

Just go to Snaffoo dashbook dot com.

Thanks for listening and see you next week.