Hey, everyone, Welcome to the Game Informer Show, a weekly podcast covering the video game industry.

Join us each and every Thursday for a discussion of the latest gaming news, reviews, and exclusive reviews with Game and Former staff and special guests from around the industry.

I am one of your hosts, Marcus Stewart.

I am joined by Kyle Hilliard.

How are you, Hey, I'm doing pretty good.

I am not rushing to finish my death Stranding to review right now, so I feel a little bit of a weight off my shoulders.

That's not to say the game is like, was it bad or anything, but it's always like you know, when you're when you're reviewing a large game, it's always a little bit like I gotta get do this thing.

It's like, much like Sam delivering a review.

You unloaded all of your work and turned it in and then we judged it for its quality and said, hey, that's pretty good.

Huh, here's a great I took a shower.

I've watched I've watched Sam shower so many times.

I can't skip that cut scene fast enough.

But you know, he's a good looking man, so it's all good.

Yes, And joining us for the first time, since we've relaunched a Game Informer show one.

Brian Shay, how are you.

I'm doing pretty good.

It has been extremely hot, and I know I'm talking to somebody who lives in Florida, so I'm not gonna like, like, you know, complain too much.

I want to hear your whining.

Brian.

However, it was like ninety eight degrees on Saturday, and I hosted a party at my house and my responsibility was to stand in front of the grill which reached upwards of five hundred degrees.

So I was there for about six hours while it was upper nineties outside.

So yeah, it was.

It was not a I was very dehydrated by the end of that day.

But yeah, overall very good.

You know, we have a lot of exciting stuff that is happening at Game Informer and Game Informer dot Com right now.

Uh.

And you know it's similar to Kyle.

I am excited because a large project is off of my plate, and that project was our cover story.

Yes, you you are the man of the hour right now.

I run it in because that's going to be the first thing we talk about, our newly announced cover story of border Lands for you and Alex Van Aiken took a trip down to Gearbox in Uh, where are they in?

Texas?

Is Austin or.

Frisco, Texas, which is just outside of Dallas.

I think it's technically still a part of like the Dallas metropolitan area, but yeah, it's where the Dallas Cowboys have their practice facility.

I actually got a workout in at their their gym.

Wait what Yeah, So there's a place right it's like attached to their like like practice stadium called Cowboy Fit and you have have a membership, but you can go in and like buy a day pass and I got a fifty percent off discount and it was like really really nice, Like it was like a super nice gym.

I went and did the cryotherapy afterwards and realized that's not something I want to do again.

It felt like that's is that where you just go stand in like a really cold room for like a short period.

Of Yes, I did for about thirty seconds, and I was like, Nope, not for me.

I did the beginner thing and it was like I think it said, like it feels like negative one hundred and forty five with a light breeze.

Us and this is fresh after my workout, so I was like, Nope, listen to this guy.

It's either too hot or too cold.

He just can't It's like you can't get it.

It's like I thought, like, I'm living in Minnesota getting used to those winters, would have prepped to you for but.

I thought that too.

Honestly, I was like, Oh, these Texans don't know cold.

And then I got in there and I'm like, nope.

And as somebody, as somebody who has lived in both Texas and Minnesota, I've experienced the highs and lows of both places, and yeah, the weather is definitely going to give you a problem no matter where you are, depending on the time of the year.

How long how long were you in that room?

How long are you supposed to be in that room?

And is it a room?

It's like a it's almost like a walk in freezer with a window, and you're They recommended three to three and a half minutes, and I went for about thirty seconds, and I was like, not for me.

My cryo therapy was I went and got a smoothie.

That's good.

That's good.

Can we do that here in Minnesota?

Like I drive by the Vikings Training facility pretty often.

Can you just go in there and be like, can I train in your gym?

I don't, I'll buy a day pass.

I mean, I think that the Cowboys are just like they they're just a monetization machine because, like you know, they have everything, Like you go to like a Cowboys game, they have like just like the most over the top amenities.

From what I understand, I've never been to Cowboys Stadium, but like I from what I hear, it's like one of like the more over the top fan experiences.

And I I'm pretty sure you have to pay for each and every little perk that you want, So it would not surprise if this is something that is like specific to the Cowboys like training facility, or maybe it's just like an offshoot of that, but it is attached to their training facility.

So yeah, it's been a fun morning there before going to Gearbox, which is why we're here right.

Yes, Yes, it's important the entire podcast.

Yeah you need the train.

I was fascinated by this cold room.

Well, Brian, I'm excited.

I liked Marcus's comment better in case we talked to over each other.

Marcus that you had to train to go visit your US.

It's very good.

It's a good joke.

Mark, thank you.

Well, yes, I'm excited to hear all about your time at Borderlands for Studio Gearbox.

Before that, of course, if you want to read this upcoming cover story, you can do so by subscribing to Game and Former magazine.

How do you do that, you ask, Well, you go to Gaminformer dot com slash subscribe and you can sign up right now for a print issue of the magazine, not just one, but ten, sent straight to your home every month or close to every month.

The magazine's bigger and better than it was before.

Better paper.

We've got Kyle, you know what we wrap them in now, they're like special polybags.

Have you heard about this?

I have, and it's one of the things I was, like, weirdly the most excited about when we were talking.

Through all this stuff.

And it's because so often we would get emails about for the previous issues or people be like my issue got messed up, and our response is always like that sucks man, But like I we just got to talk to your mailman or something.

We don't.

I don't know what we could do, but we have the poly bags now, which I think is going to make a huge difference.

Yeah, yes, And of course the membership or the subscription, I should say, acts as a membership to the website, because not only do you get the print and digital versions of the magazine, but you also get access to exclusive web features on the website.

You get fewer ads on the website as well.

You get access to our entire digital archive of every magazine and game informers history just there available for you.

And of course the best part of the package.

Five percent of every subscription goes toward Saint Jude Children's Research Hospital, helping pediatric care, all that good stuff.

So your subscription not only gets you access to the hottest gaming news, reviews, previews, but it's also actively helping out some very wonderful children.

It's it's the best.

And yes, so you can go subscribe now.

I believe our early early bird has concluded this week by the time that this will go go out, so the and please correct me if I get this in correct, guys, but I believe our pricing should be back to standard now yes, I think so, yeah, okay, which would be you know, for the print and magazine or excuseity, the print and digital version of the magazine.

It'll be seventy dollars a year.

But however, you can also get a digital only subscription for forty five dollars a year, which is also great for our international readers.

And yeah, it's a great way to support us directly, keep us, keep the lights on, keep us from get blipped out of existence once again, and we greatly appreciated.

And of course, the very first issue that will be hitting your doorstep will be emblazoned with some cover art for Borderlands four.

So, Brian, tell us all about it.

You went to Gearbox, you played a bunch of Borderlands four.

How is it shaping up so far?

Well, first, let me tell you about this really cool freezer that I stood in for like thirty seconds.

Not well, so Borderlands four.

You know the way that the series has like kind of grown with me.

It's interesting because like I got into games media kind of just before Borderlands one came out, Like I started writing about video games in two thousand and eight.

And yeah, so like I've kind of come of age with this franchise in a weird way.

But like I have covered every single Borderlands game aside from I think pre No.

I did a preview for pre sqel for OXM, I think, but like I didn't cover three very much.

And it's interesting because that is the one that like I did not really care for much, like I loved one and two, like obsessed over both of those games.

Presequel wasn't really for me.

Tales from the Borderlands got me right back into that universe.

I thought that was phenomenal, maybe Telltale's best game, But since then it's kind of been tough sledding for me with the Borderlands franchise.

I think three was a little bit too referential to like outside like like cold pop culture stuff, Like it's like, okay, this it's really hard to accept that this is a self contained universe when they're referencing like memes and stuff from our world.

A kind of probably, Yeah, it was kind of charming in two because it was unique at the time, like you didn't really see that often.

But yeah, by the time three came around, I don't know, I just it was a little exhausting at that point.

Yeah, so it and also like I don't know, it almost felt like this is gonna sound very disrespectful.

It almost felt like the we you to Borderlands for's switch where it's like a half step towards what we want, and then Borderlands four feels like the switch where it was like, oh my god, this is like what they were striving for, like in some ways with their previous thing, but now they're actually giving us what we want, and what that is is a giant, seamless open world, so like very minimal loading screens.

You just it's not like kind of like the hub and spoke design where it's like, oh, just a big open area in the middle and then you go off into these tiny little corridors off on the sides, which is how a lot of Borderlands areas have been designed.

To this point.

It really does feel like just this massive open world that has like activities scattered throughout it.

The writing is a lot more, I mean, it's kind of it's a little bit darker in some regards, kind of going back a little bit closer to like what Borderlands one was, but there's still a play like there's so many like hilarious moments and like, I don't know, like there there were a couple moments especially there was one with clap Trap during a side quest that I was doing where I've never really found clap Trap super funny I've always thought it was entertaining, but not like laugh out loud, but like there was a moment where I laughed very hard at something that happened.

And then yeah, So, like the traversal is also a huge upgrade.

So you can still like mantle and everything, like you up on ledges like you could in borderlandes three, but now there's like you can double jump, you can glide, you can there's a grappling hook, so it's like like a kind of a rope that they throw out that they can like attach to like grapple points and swing over or like kind of repel up.

And then you can also use that to grab items in the environment, like explosive barrels and pull them to you and then toss them, which is really cool.

And all of the Vault Hunters have three distinct action skills they're called which are basically like subclasses that like operate on a cool down.

Like, so every every vault Hunter kind of has similar movement, it's like, and they can all use like guns, the guns that you pick up, which you know would be weird if you couldn't in a border Lands game.

Well, just one of the Vault Hunters, like didn't Batman Real Quick, Brian, which Fault Hunters did you get to play?

I got to play all four of them.

So Vex is the Dark Siren, Rafa is the Exo Soldier, Aman is the Forge Night, and Harlow is the Gravitar.

So uh Rafa is kind of like more of a straightforward like like soldier type class where he has his three action skills.

One he like kind of grows like a like an arm cannon kind of like Samus and can shoot like piercing shots, which is cool.

And then he has another one that like if you activate it, it like activates like auto turrets kind of where it just automatically fires at anybody like in on his screen and then as I slam my elbow into my desk and then yeah, I'm very excited.

And then he has another one where it's like he just grows two blades out of his arms and goes and can do like melee attacks.

So it's yeah kind of so they're all very distinct.

I don't I'm not going to run through all of the abilities because they all have three, but like Aman has a Mon's actually he's like a seven foot four tall, like Viking looking dude, and he has these axes that they make him like the most elemental character in the game, which is weird because like the Siren isn't the elemental character in this game.

She has some elemental areas, but like normally the Siren is kind of like the elemental damage dealer, in this case, the Siren is actually kind of like a summoner, Like she kind of summons like these phantoms for one of her action skills, and like you can choose to have it be either a melee character that will run around and like like use a lot of agro so like the character, the enemies will focus on them, or you can do like a turret style phantom that will provide like cover fire for you.

Otherwise, she also has like this like cat Minion that she can summon that will attack enemies and like teleport around the battlefield.

So but the elemental side of her is that when you switch your gun to like say I'm using incendiary AMMO, that means that all the phantoms are going to have fire based attacks, but if I switch it over to cryo, they will all have ice based attacks.

So based on what weapon you are using, your phantoms or summons will have that same element with their attacks, which is kind of cool.

Yeah, so you can play with the elements a little bit that way.

But Aman is way more elemental, Like he has these axes that he throws, so like that he has like a projectile where it's like he'll throw the axe and when you bring it up, like as your action skill, he holds up two actses, one as a fire one is an ice axe, so you can choose which one you want to throw, and then there's kind of like an like he had one of his his like passive trait is that each one of his action skills has an extra action skill looped on top of that.

So his other action skill for the dual wielding axes where he can throw one ice in one fire is that it turns that he forges those two axes together and throws it and on the way out, I think it's fire and the way back it is ice.

So it's kind of like a dual element at the end.

And then there's another one where he he has like this like flaming punch, and I think the secondary trait for that is he like can line up a wall of fire that you can run through and everything but enemies can't run through or shoot through it, so it's like a really good like way to place down like a little bit of cover for either you or if you're playing co op, your teammates.

And then maybe my favorite I don't know this is so I told this like because every time I finished, they were like, oh, so, what'd you think?

Almost every time I stepped away from the game, I was like, I think that's gonna be my main I think that was my favorite Vault Hunter.

And I wrote this in the cover story where I was like I felt like a child where it's like whenever they ask you like, oh, what's your favorite, like candy, and it's always just like the candy that they ate last, Like, oh yeah, I just had eminems, So Eminem's are my favorite.

That's how I felt with like the Vault Hunters.

Like in the past, I feel like I've always like gravitated towards like one or two of them immediately and be like, oh yeah, that's totally my guy.

This like I could see myself playing any of the four and being perfectly happy.

And the last one that I played was Harlow and she's kind of like this tech like kind of like tech Wizard.

It's almost like a Jedi, but like more technical.

So is that was the wasn't your class in one of the other ones, like tech Nomancer.

Yeah, yeah, it's a little bit different from that.

Okay.

So she has this passive trait called entanglement, and what that does is when she uses her action skills on enemies, they become entangled.

They start glowing like this rainbow like holographic look almost like a you know, like a Pokemon card, and when they are in that, they kind of split damage.

So like if like there's five enemies and I entangle four of them, and you entangle them through like just by touching them with your action skills.

So one of hers is she can lift one enemy up almost like a Jedi and then like slam them into other enemies or like walls or ground or whatever to do damage.

But if you keep touching other enemies with that enemy, it entangles all of them, and then if you shoot them, it kind of hurts all the other entangled ones as well, So it's really good for crowd control.

And then the other ways you can entangle her.

Other action skills are like she shoots like this kind of like disco ball looking bomb forward, and it has this massive area of effect explosion and anything that it touches.

In addition to dealing damage, it also entangles.

And then there's another one that's just kind of like a pulse mind that she throws on the ground and like reverberates out, and as that happens, it entangles all the enemies.

So it's really really good if like there's just like hordes of like monsters or enemies running at you, And that's good because like they've also upped the crowd sizes pretty sicknificantly in this game.

They're they're really making good use of Unreal Engine five with both the I mean, the graphics look better.

The world loads so much faster, and I'm sure that's thanks to like the tech of like the PS five an Xbox Series X as well.

I was playing on a PC, so I can't really comment on like the performance on the other platforms or even the switch to but yeah, do you know, off the top of your head, is it day and date switch too?

They're saying a later date in twenty but they're still saying twenty twenty five, So yeah, I do.

I do think one of the highest compliments you paid to the game, Brian, like we've already said, was was that you you at the end the cover story you said, I don't know who I'm going to be playing as, which I think I think is like that says a lot about the game.

That like there wasn't one that you were like, well, I didn't really like this one.

They were a little too technical or something like that.

You know, Yeah, And I mean the other thing is like on the other side of the spectrum, like this is an all new world, right, It's not Pandora anymore.

It's not Elpis, which you know it is the moon above Pandora, or it was above Pandora, or the whole story is like in at the end of Borderlands three.

Sorry for spoilers for Borderlands three, Lilith, who was the siren in the first Borderlands Yes, Kate Blanchet, Yes, Kate Blanchett has to teleport Elpis away from Pandora because it was about to like reak havoc on Pandora, and she teleports it to what I seemed like an empty part of space, but it turned out there was a veiled planet there and it smashed into the planet when she did that, and it shattered the veil, so now like there are like people know it's there now, so that that happens, and then like it causes all kinds of problems in this planet.

And it turns out this planet was kind of ruled by this like dictator called the Timekeeper, who I guess has been alive for a very long time.

But he values order above all else, so like he's really like controlling of the people.

He's installed like these like bolts on their their bodies to prevent them from disobeying orders and everything.

So he's basically enslaved an entire planet.

And once the moon crashes into it, it actually rains down some of like the psycho masks from Borderlands from the Borderlands franchise, and one of his like underlings, the Timekeeper's underlings, picks it up and it's like, oh, what's this, And then they realize like, oh, there's more out there than just this planet, and they start questioning it.

So like another faction forms called the Rippers, and what they do is they realize that they're like kind of under control of the Timekeeper by these things that are like surgically implanted in their heads.

So they start ripping them out.

But what that does is it often mutilates their body, but it also mutilates their mind, so they also are very they can be hostile as well, So you have like those factions.

There's another faction in there that I didn't really get to interact with very much.

But the Timekeeper is kind of like the main villain, and the bar has always been I think this isn't really like controversial to say, but the bar for the Borderlands franchise in terms of villains has always been Handsome Jack.

And yeah, so like.

I don't even I don't even remember the the Borderlands one was the one I played primarily the most.

I don't even remember, so uh, I don't know if the Timekeeper is going to reach the heights of Handsome Jack.

Like that's a very high barred set.

But he does feel very menacing, very powerful, and he almost he definitely believes in his cause, like he thinks he is doing this planet right by maintaining order.

Kind of similar, I mean similar, like like all good villains are that way.

Like, I mean, you know, Thanos was a great villain in Infinity War and Endgame because he believed in his cause and like he said, he talks about it in such a way that you're like, Okay, yeah, I understand why you think that, even though it's clearly.

Wrong, Like you could snap your fingers and create more resources.

I mean, that's the other way you.

Can go exactly.

But oh yeah, so eagles could fly you to the mountain and Lord of the Rings.

But yeah, so, like, I think that the possibility is there for the Timekeeper to be an incredible villain.

So I want to learn more about him, and I will have an article on game Informer dot com that dives a little bit deeper into who the Timekeeper is through the words of the folks who you know, created him.

But yeah, like I I didn't really encounter him like all that much.

I fought one of his underlings and like a big boss battle that took like twenty five minutes to finish.

It was a very long battle.

It was very cool too.

I faced off against like one of his Like I think he's like a scientist or something, so like I thought some of his like I don't know, for lack of a better word, direct reports, But I did not really encounter him.

There's only been a few times where like he would just like talk to me over like I guess like headset or whatever Jack style.

Yeah, taunting over in or cooms and stuff.

Like why do you resist?

Like you know, like that type of stuff.

It's like nothing like substantial, just him kind of like pontificating, and yeah, he seems like he's going to be a very good boss or very good like main antagonist.

So I'm excited to learn more about him.

Yeah, So start off in the Fade Fields, which is very different from like a normal Borderlands like starting area because it's almost always like a wasteland when you start a Borderlands game, whether it's like sandy or icy or whatever.

This is like a lush green field and like there's all kinds of vegetation and like it's bright and sunny.

And that was intentional because they want you to get there and be like, oh, this is actually a pretty nice place.

And then the more you delve into this world, the more you realize that like there's kind of like some other stuff going on, and like it really juxtaposes against like the starting area of that that almost feels ripped from like kind of like a lot of RPGs like where it's like, yeah, we're starting in like the beach environ or like the forest environment, and now we're going to the apocalypse environment.

Okay, that's kind of how it feels.

Because the exclusive area that I got to play around in was Carcadia Burn, which is one of the other After you complete a few missions, the world opens up and you can go to Carcadia Burn or if you get what the other name of the other zone was.

I didn't get to see that one, but it's it's much more of like a desert y wasteland environment, and it's it's the Rippers that I talked about earlier that, like you know, are the other faction outside of the Order, which is the Timekeeper's faction.

That's where they kind of have set up shop is in Carcadia Burn.

And the reason it's a wasteland is because when the moon smashed into the planet, it's that part of the world that it hit, so it it took like the brunt of the force.

So yeah, that was really fun.

There's so many side things going around, like there are Rift Champions they're called where it's like you'll just be going through the open world like they do such a good job of like, hey, here's like the mission marker, like you can go there.

Like we'll even have like they even have a little robot called Echo four that will like navigate you, like it'll put like almost like Forts of Horizon style like draw a line on the road and you can follow that line.

But there are so many diversions all throughout the world, so it's like, Okay, well, there's this giant like kind of like foggy bubble in the middle of the world.

You're like, what's that And you go in there and there's a there's like a world boss that you can fight in there.

Come like like kind of like a like a Destiny style like this thing just shows up and yeah, it seems like the encounter, I guess, or.

It's like a it seems like it is at random.

I don't know like how they programmed it, but it seems like it's like, oh, one of those events is happening right there.

Let me jump in.

But you have to stay within the bubble, like they won't come out of the bubble to attack you.

You go into it, and like in order to stay in the encounter, you need to stay in like this little area this radius.

Which is like a very life service y kind of thing.

Yeah.

Yeah, So and then there's also like what was it called I can grab my notes here?

But there's one where you are basically you're charged with getting a battery to the top of this area.

I think it's is this the silos, but basically like, yeah, there's a battery down at the bottom of this this area.

You have to get it up to the top somehow, and like you can take it and throw it, but you can't like use like your grapple or anything or mantle while you're holding the battery.

So it's kind of like a puzzle type element of like, all right, I've got to get this up there?

How do I do that without most of my traversal skills?

Yeah, and that for that one, I think the one that I completed, it gave me like a new skin for my my vehicle.

Little speeder bikes in this now.

Right, yeah, digi runners, and they do control very similar to like how the kind of the bikes in Destiny control the sparrows.

Individual because wasn't it like the other vehicles and borderlands are always like a bunch of people can load up onto them, right, yeah, usually.

Yeah, these are individuals at least what I saw their individual But yes, that that is how it worked as far as I remember.

It's cool.

So uh yeah, I completed a base that I assaulted.

There's and that was where there was this guy in Horace.

He was like, uh just he was like one of the first battles I did.

I also did the uh primordial vault.

So when you there's this other side activity where you have to find a terminal, So like you open up the terminal and it opens up like this thing that brings you a balloon and it pops up and you can use that balloon almost like the launchers in like Tiers of the Kingdom, because you have a glide ability and you can glide just as far as you want basically, And so what you can do is you can like grab that balloon and it'll throw you up in the air, so you can glide around a little bit easier.

But also from what I recall, and this is kind of off the top of the dome, so apologies that this is inaccurate, but I think they also give you like hints or or like to where vault keys are.

So it gives you intel to like fragments of your vault keys.

And then the vaults are kind of like these multi stage like almost like Horde mode style, but like not with you don't set up anything.

You just get there and you're fighting waves of enemies and you just have to survive for as as many enemies as come, and then you move on to the next platform, and then move on to the next platform, and at the end there's this big like set piece boss waiting for you.

I thought a boss called Inceptis, and basically he's like this kind of like giant like almost like lizard like creature, and he has like these giant claws that'll slash at you.

He has a big tail that he whips you with and then like I got him down.

Basically it uses all of the traversal stuff that they put in the game.

It was a really good showcase for that because like not only did you have to like double jump over the tail when he whipped and like dodged to one side or the other for when he slashed at you, but also you had to use your grapple rope to like grab him like almost like Spider Man style, Like he had like these like like almost like pustules, if that's the right word for it, and you have to grab those and open them up to make a point of vulnerability, and then you can shoot like the sore basically.

And then when I got him down to half health, he jumped up into the ceiling and like formed a little bit of a cocoon and then he flooded the arena with acid and I had these like mushrooms were up on the ceiling.

You basically have to grapple from like mushroom to mushroom while shooting at the thing.

It was very Spider Man esque if Spider Man used guns that like ricocheted when you got a headshot.

Then when you shot the postules, were any equips that you remember from your characters.

Oh man, that's gonna leave the mark.

I don't know, no, something like that.

That was a sore spot.

That's a free one for but yeah.

And then another thing they've done is they've added the ability to to like replay encounters without having to like do like these weird workarounds that you used to have to do.

And so like you go to this like vending machine that pops up after you beat a boss and you can just basically instantly replay it.

So it used to be also very life service, Yeah, because like you can also do that to grind loot.

Like the bosses obviously dropped like a lot of loot.

Same thing for those Rift champions I mentioned earlier, they drop a lot of loot, and so like it's maybe worth it to replay that boss battle.

Yeah see, And you can just replay a boss battle like as many times as you want.

I think there is like a currency attached to it, but I don't I think like it.

They didn't seem to indicate that it's like a rare currency or anything like that.

And then they've also made changes like rather than having like finding health packs in or health kits in like lockers and stuff like that, now it's just a cool down that you have, So you have rep kits and it operates on a cool down and it not only heals you, but it also buffs you in certain ways, and there's different rep kits that you can equip.

So and then do you like that, like I've oh, yeah, as opposed to like the lockers, Yeah.

Definitely, I definitely prefer it.

And then they also made some improvements to co op, like you no longer have to like just spawn at like a nearby checkpoint or a SPA.

Now you can spawn directly on your co op partner and you can split because it's like I said, it's a giant, seamless open world and you can explore as far away from each other as possible, and it'll only like start like auto teleporting you once somebody enters another biome, Like if you're in Fade Fields and then go to Carcadia Burn, it'll be like teleporting you.

And you know, I don't know what the countdown is, but it's like five four, and you can push a button and cancel that, so it's not like automatically going to teleport you.

It just like initiates the sequence, but you can stop it from doing that.

So that's nice.

Can explore separate biomes.

Then it sounds it sure seems like it, like I did not do it, but they said, oh yeah, it'll auto teleport you want.

Because like I was talking to one developer and playing co op with another and he was like, oh yeah, hold on right here.

For a second, he was like telling me about something, and then he's like, all right, your co op partner is over there, and it said like eleven hundred meters away, and he's like you could try to catch up with him, or you can auto teleport to his location at any time, which is also very cool, so you don't have to wait for like any kind of auto teleport.

But they were like, yeah, you can cancel that if you want to.

So it does seem like I could explore one part of the world and you know, Marcus, you could explore another part of the world, so that is also very cool.

They are also one of the big things that they've done is they if you've played Borderlands three, like the manufacturers of the guns became even more important in those games in that game, and basically those manufacturers have different traits so that that gives them like a more identifiable characteristic.

So it's like, oh, I had this gun that means it's gonna you know, ricochet if I shoot somebody in the head, it's gonna get to a crit hit it's to ricochet to another enemy automatically.

Or this one shoots sticky bombs or something like that.

Now there is a component of mixing and matching those traits, so like if you have the ricochet off the crit shots and you pick a gun up that happens to have a licensed part from the manufacturer that does the sticky bombs.

You will get both of those.

It'll get the best of both worlds in that or this one on like you know, you'll be like, oh, it has it's this gun, but it has a license part from this, so you get the both of those characteristics in that gun.

So A really up the number of combinations there are, like they I mean, they have always had I think, like over a billion guns in every Borderlands game, just through like procedural generation.

But like I think they were talking and this I believe at one point, Again don't quote me on this, but I think they said upwards of five billion combinations.

M that's several more billions.

That is that is many guns at least.

Yes, So and yeah, like I like they've nailed the tone of the writing.

Again, I didn't play too many story moments, but like they they definitely feel more rained in with the humor and they kind of described it the way I when I interviewed Negoshi, the guy behind the Yakuza series, originally, he explained it as like, Okay, well, you know, if you play the main like the main critical path of the story, you will get this very serious drama type story.

Action focus drama basically, but if you go off the beaten path, that's where you get the comedic stuff, like the side quests and everything.

That's kind of how the Borderlands writing team explained, like how they're like balancing the comedy with the kind of serious action stuff.

Okay, awesome, but it's.

Still seasoned with that humor though, Like even when you're playing the main stuff, there's still gonna be the little quips.

There's still gonna be funny moments.

But yeah, the funniest moments that I expect were definitely when I was doing side stuff.

Okay, what's the uh, what's a funny line that you can remember?

The clap trap one that made me laugh because you know, clap traps always like kind of very like happy go lucky in a lot of ways and sometimes a little menacing.

But he was like telling me to go do something, and like I was like, I don't want to spoil too much, but I was like going to from like area to area, grabbing these mementos that like I guess crashed down on Cairos, the new planet when the moon crashed into it, and clap traps like, oh, I guess it's not there and then like you killed one more guy and I guess he drops it and you find it and he's just like, oh it was there, never questioned me again, like a real deep voice on my woe.

So that was it was pretty funny.

I don't know, like it was just out of the blue car.

Yeah, it's completely co It's not going to do it justice when I explain it like that.

You had to be there.

Basically, Yeah, the game of tell there a game of telephone with something I experienced almost a month ago now, but yeah, because I did play one day, I traveled to Nevado, California before this trip to Frisco, Texas, and went to two K's offices out in Nevado, California and played a day of Borderlands four there.

And then two weeks later I went to Texas and spent two whole days at Gearbox doing interviews, playing hours upon hours of Borderlands four.

And I mean, I've got to say like it, I went in with caution.

I was like very hesitant to like allowing myself to be excited for this game, and I stepped away being like, Okay, I think they understand what they needed to do to course correct in talking with Randy Pitchford, like I talked to him a little bit about, like, you know, what lessons did you learn from Borderlands three, Like where did you want to carry into Borderlands four?

And he was like, you know, like he gave me this whole story about the reason it's called Borderlands is because it exists in between multiple things.

Like you know, it's a it's a shooter, but it's also an RPG.

It's a comedy, but it's also a drama.

So it's like all these different things that exist like in the borders between these different things.

And he was like, I think that with like some of our recent games, we've gone off too far one way or the other, and we wanted to get back to that Borderlands region where it's like we are kind of like in like that gray area between those spaces.

And I was like, Okay, that that does make sense, and that does seem to be in line with what I have experienced so far.

And I've got to say, like it has made me feel the excitement that I felt when like Borderlands two was coming out, where I was just like Okay, yeah, a sequel to a game that I absolutely adore is coming out and everything I've seen has told me it's going to be amazing, And I think Borderlands four is, uh, you know, up there with my most anticipated games for the rest of this year.

Oh yeah, I'm excited.

That's that's impressive.

Yeah, because I mean, I, like you said, it's not like you went in there expecting to be blown away or walk out with like this is I'm really looking forward to this now.

You were just like, yeah, let me see what this is.

Let me see what Borderlands is today, and like that's that that gives me that That's that makes me optimistic too, because I'm not really a big Borderland but like I did play one, and I liked one quite a bit, but then I kind of fell off on two, and I don't think I even booted up three.

But like, you know, those games are cool.

I'm always open for an excuse to revisit them, you know.

Yeah, I'm kind of in the same boat as you.

Like I love one and two.

The other ones just didn't hit the same way.

It's it's it's been very hard for me to get excited for a new Borderlands like since two pretty much.

But yeah, hearing your enthusiasm for it's definitely like I was just kind of like indifferent to four up until this point pretty much, but yeah, I am more likely to give it a shot now, and it does it does sound like they're doing some cool stuff.

Yeah, I'm very much looking forward to it.

And it was fun because, like I also got to know a lot of these developers and like they most of them have been there for like at least a decade, if not more.

Like the creative director was like a level designer on Borderlands one, and like the art director has been there, like working at Gearbox since before border Lane, Like he was involved with like the the art direction change and everything like that.

So like it's really really like they had that institutional knowledge that I think that like a lot of studios unfortunately don't have too much of these days, with like the state of the industry and everything, where it's like people being you know, laid off, studios being closed.

You know, Gearbox has been around for a while now, and a lot of their more senior people have been there for almost as long as the studio has been open, at least as long as they've been working on Borderlands.

But there's also a fair injection of newer talent as well that I was able to talk to.

So it's cool to get both sides of that of like some of the people being like, oh yeah, Like I got into the industry because I love playing Borderlands one and two when I was like in high school and now here I am working at the studio, and then like you know, other people, it's like, oh yeah, I was the reason that we changed the art style, right.

I worked closely with Randy when we were changing the art style for Borderlands one.

And you know, if you don't know the story behind that, I will have a story on why they did that.

If you recall, Game Informer actually had Borderlands one on the cover back when it had a completely different art style, it almost looked more like, I would say, like closer to what Rage was like if you looked at like in Software Rate.

Actually, yeah, so it was like a kind of more a straight laced style, which I don't think would have gelled well with the writing and like tone of the game overall.

It was called Pandora originally, and they changed it to Borderlands before they launched, and when they changed the art style, and I talked to Randy, I talked to Graham, who was the creative director of Borderlands four.

He was.

I asked him the little teaser.

I was like, hey, what was your thought when like, you know, Randy came in the room, was like, hey, guys, I know we're like getting closer to finishing this game, but we have to change the entire art style.

And his first answer was and I'll censor myself here, effing insane was was what he thought of that decision initially, but now like, yeah, it's absolutely the right choice because like look at where the series is now.

So yeah, I'll have a story on that in the coming weeks as well.

Over on Gaminformer dot com got some other more in depth stuff stuff on like the Timekeeper, stuff on the seamless open world, in depth hands on impressions of all the Vault hunters.

So lots of exclusive coverage coming this month to game Informer dot com.

Awesome.

Yes, keep an eye out for that cover story when it gets those mailboxes.

Thank you so much, Brian, And moving on, Kyle Hilliard.

For a long time, I was the coolest person in this office because I had gone to Kajuma Productions and played thirty hours of Debt Stranding two for a big preview event, and I knew so much about this game that you guys didn't know, and I could flaunt that on you, but you have, much like Sam Porter Bridges, you have ascended the mountaintop and have kicked me off of it because you have finished Death Stranding too.

You know way more about it than I do now at this point, and you have boasted your review.

I know it all.

Yes, you know the secrets of the beach and the dooms and the Kyriellium and all the other weird words that written that game.

A pass and APAC and the UAC.

Yeah, all that stuff, lots of acroning that game.

Hung out with a talking doll and a mannequin for hours an hour.

I know why that guy that Hydeo Kojima insists is important and keeps showing us.

I know why he's important.

All right, Well tell us all about a desk randing too, your review now live on the side.

What did you think of a game?

Where are you at with it?

Which, by the way, Marcus, you're still cooler than me, just like in general.

Yeah I was.

I was actually gonna point that out that Marcus fact cooler than Kyle.

Oh yeah, and you've also you know hung out with Hideo Kojima in his purgatory room.

I think I hung out.

I think it's stood.

Next to him for a photograph.

Is that is that room truly as bright as it looks the picture?

It is blindingly bright, especially because the rest of the office is pitch black, like black walls, black carpet, black doors.

So when they do the double door reveal, it is literally like you have stepped into through the gates of heaven and your soul is being cleansed as you step into the room.

So it's like whenever it can when when like the video game has it, so like the door opens and like it's outside and there's like that white effect for a second while your eyes adjust.

Yeah.

I was literally like for the first few like minute, I was squinting my eyes standing in a room like we were outside.

It was very much like, oh, the this is brighter.

This is even brighter than it looks in all those pictures and videos.

Yeah, I know, we're spending a lot of time talking about rooms that we entered before actually talking about the thing people want to hear about.

Like that's kind of the theme of this episode.

Brian going into the cold room Marcus going into the white room that like you have to go into that room to enter Kojima Productions, right, Like that is that like the entrance, you know.

It's like it's own, it's like down a hallway, but you do have to go to it.

There are secret doors to get to, like two secret conference rooms that are like basically the same but different colors and maybe slightly different furniture.

And according to the tour guide, it was just saying like it's just kind of mood base whenever one Kajima wants to use for like a meeting or if he has to take a call with some celebrity he's trying to scan into the game.

He's like, yeah, this is the this is the white lounge room.

This is when he's just feeling contemplative today or something.

We'll come in here and we'll do our thing.

But on the other side there's a black one, and that's when he's in a different mood.

It's like that's the.

Room he goes to when he tries to figure out how many things the word kyrillium can be applied to, and it just sort of like.

Wave off just.

Writing down every variation of kyrill Kyrol Network, Chirole Animals, Kyrol.

You know, I am so happy that he is enigmatic, or as enigmatic as he is to us, to his employees, like it sounds like they're like, yeah, Kojima's doing Kojima, Like let him be Yeah.

But yes, death Stranding too.

Is this a good game with all of the weirdness they get into it?

Is this a good game?

Kyle?

Yeah?

I like Death Stranding two on the beach.

I gave it an eight point seventy five, which the way I described it when Matt Miller most recently asked me is like, yeah, how would you land on that?

It didn't quite crest.

You know, once you hit that like nine sort of one, Like this is like they're getting knocking this out of the park.

There's like I have very little complaints.

I was enraptured the whole experience.

Like I was just south of that string it.

Was almost a nine.

But then you lost your balance and sort of tilted to the right and sort of like stumbled.

And fell a little bit and just tumbled and lost all my packages.

Yeah.

Yeah, death Stranding overall is kind of It's an odd one for me.

Like I love Hideo Kojima.

I'm part of the problem, I like to say.

You know, like I know that people have their qualms with him, and it's like it's all so there's also that issue of like him being like a self proclaimed kind of a tour and you know, arguably not giving like the larger team enough credit, you know, because he does work with writers and stuff like that, and obviously these games wouldn't exist about a larger team.

Like I totally agree with all that, but like there is there is there's like a tone, there's an emotion that comes from a Judeo Kojima game, you know, and I and I love it, Like I love the Metal Gear Solid series.

I said as much in my review, Like Metal Gear Solid two is like even not even just like one of my favorite games, but like one of my favorite pieces of fiction, like truly, like I just adore that game so much, and like I it kind of perhaps unfairly made me go into Death Straining two with all really high expectations because it's like they are good as sequels, you know, they are good at iterating on like a core idea and then like twisting it on its head and like really surprising you in in in unexpected ways, which was kind of like, I mean, that's what Malgar Solid two is.

It is a game.

It is a game about being sequel and also about just playing with your expectations to no end.

Like every hour in that game is like making you like suddenly be like, oh my gosh, I didn't what is happening here?

You know?

And you know I didn't really get that from Death Stranding too, right, It's it's it is iterative on the first game in surprising ways, like there are you know, the sequences where you are gosh, I'm trying to be careful with spoilers for both games, but there's those sequences where you kind of get you leave the world in the first game and you're fighting Marcus helped me.

The actor's name?

Who oh, Troy Baker's No, not Troy Baker.

The oh he's talking about not Solid Snake.

Yes, yeah, yeah, band gay guys.

Yeah, why can't I talk?

Why can't I think of the actor's name?

You guys know how.

Yeah, I'm talking about it in the first.

Game, Okay, I just the second game?

Uh oh wait, hold on, Matts Michaelson losing.

My mind when man game Now, Mad's mechs.

So I actually have not played Death Straining one and I haven't played Death Straining two.

I knew Mads Michelson was in the first game, and I almost shouted that out, and then I was like, no, I'm gonna let the people who know what they're talking about talk.

So I could have saved.

But Matt Michelson is always the right answer.

Brian just shouted out, whenever you're in doubt, when you know something, just say his name.

I mean, obviously, but he like those sequences in des Strating one, I think I think most people consider to be kind of a weaker part of the game gameplay wise, when you go and you have to sort of face Mad's Michelson's character, and there's a lot of interesting story, you know, implications that come from all those sequences.

And I was surprised when Destraating two actually has like a new version of that, right, Like it's like an iterative version of that where it's like, oh, I'm kind of doing this again with different characters, Okay, Like I was sort of surprised by that, and like the sort of structure of doing deliveries and stuff feels very similar but is improved in many ways.

Can I also just real quick the first again without spoiling, the first instance of doing the thing you just described where you go to a different place to deal with a person is incredible.

Like it's the only one that I saw during my thirty hours preview.

But it's like, yeah, visually, in presentation wise, it is like unbelievable.

It's it's very let me ask you, yes, so when you're talking about that, and you may be able to get into this a little bit more once we talked more.

But is this the game that's going to make people want to upgrade to a PS five pro.

I played on a standard and I thought it looked amazing.

Yeah, it looks a yeah preview, the preview was on a standard PS five two when I went to the office.

Yeah, it looks, it looks and runs.

Well, it's the it's the Death of Engine too, which powers the Horizon games, and those look fantastic on DACE PS five.

Okay.

The game opens in a way that's very like and there's there's in the beginning.

Uh, it actually has real life footage right of like environments that look like they could belong in Death Stranding, and the transition into gameplay is like barely noticeable, Like it took me a minute to be like.

Wait is that real footage?

Wait?

Is this gameplay?

And it like it like it took it takes a second to realize in a complimentary way that it's like when you shift over to gameplay, like the game looks amazing.

I mean to answer your question, Brian, I guess the answer is no, because like it looks great on PS five that's how That's how I played it.

Yeah, even on performance mode, which is what I personally recommend playing is you get the smooth sixty, but like, at least for me, the like graphical quality like takes a minor hit, Like I think it's worth worth switching to that just to get the extra frames.

You're among friends here with that, Marcus, because Kyle and I think are very aligned on that as well, Like it's almost always worth doing performance mode over like the textures, I'll always go performance.

Absolutely, Yes, scrudles textures.

What we say, who needs textures?

Yeah?

But yeah, I mean you've got me out of like another sidetrack.

You're like thinking about how visually interesting that whole sequences, Marcus, that you'll see when you play the game when everyone will see But like that's a big thing about this game.

It's like it's so imaginative and dream like and it's like visuals, like it doesn't really and they do define things right, It's it's not like I'm not like waving my hand and be like this doesn't make any sense.

The weird thing about Death Stranding is like characters just monologue at you endlessly and explain everything about its world, to the point where it's like I would argue that Death Stranding is actually like it's not that it's easy to understand.

It's just that it's like they just tell you everything, and especially now that you have the resource where you can like read everything that you've like maybe potentially like the interactive encyclopedia that they basically took from Final Fantasy sixteen's like taking, which is.

A good idea.

Yeah.

Yeah, Like I every time someone would say a word that maybe you like, like I kind of vaguely remember that, it would be like, do you want to like read about that word?

You can hold down pause now, And I took advantage of that almost every time, Like it was nice to just get a.

Little little thing.

But yeah, so it didn't feel as as different from Death Stranding one as I expected, which was maybe an unfair expectation on my part.

It does feel iterative in a way, but like everything is like better, right, Like I think the package delivery feels better.

I like Australia more than the than the United States.

I think it's like easier to travel through.

You get a vehicle very quickly in Death Stranding too, and like I rarely traveled on foot again after that point, yeah, which is like I think it's just kind of a choice that you can make because I mean the game is very much designed around like you can walk everywhere, and that's part of the fun of like building ladders and like pulleys and stuff, but as like you can also just get on a motorcycle and just drive there quickly.

Again, it's like that stingy about vehicles either, like they're like no, no, no, we're not going to be like you should be walking.

Really, it's like no, no, you want a big old truck.

Here have all the trucks you want.

So so, Kyle, I mean, there's a lot of mission.

Let me ask you this.

I know you and I have a shared love for Breath of the Wild when you play Breath the Wild, because I've heard some people compare Death Stranding one to Breath the Wild in terms of like the exploration and everything.

How do you get through the world and breath the world?

Do you walk or do you ride a horse?

I teleport, but like you if you're just if you're exploring, do you like walk and run around or do you do you get on a home?

I rarely used a horse, and a lot of it is just because the horse controls aren't super great compared to other games.

Otherwise I probably.

No, Marcus, they don't hit trees.

I don't know if you know that they're very smart.

Okay, they're geniuses.

This is a very that's a very old reference to like a version of Breath of the Wild that doesn't even exist.

Three people understand that reference.

One of them is the other one is me.

You know.

It's it's interesting that people compared to Breath the Wall because I really wouldn't because it's like it's so it's so point A to point b right like, and it's like it's to go off and explore.

You don't really get a lot from doing that, Like if you stray from your there's not a ton of reason to do it other than to maybe find packages that you could deliver somewhere else, so that it Yeah, I don't know if that that comparison holds up to me, other than it's like an open world and you have a lot of weird tools that you can use to get through it in different ways however you want.

But like a lot of the time, it's like you're barely making it to your destination right, like you're the battery's almost out on your car, or you're like your robot legs, or you're like your shoes are running out.

And like I did like much less so indestering two than one.

I would still hit points where I was like one of the ones that really frustrated me was I was driving a car through a river which wasn't very deep, but and you know this is on me, but my battery died in the middle of the river, and so like what I had to do was like, okay, let me get I got out of the vehicle and it was like you know, you know, walking through the water, and I got to the coast and I set up a battery so I could charge my car.

But because my car in like the middle of the river.

I just had to lay down on the ground and rest, and I literally walked away from the system for a while so that the solar panels on the car could recharge it enough just for me to back up and like recharge my car.

And those moments were kind of like those are that's just kind of annoying, Like it's not really fun or makes it more like intense.

It was just kind of obnoxious.

Interesting, then you do you do also have those moments where it's like where you do like your battery barely makes it to the destination and it's like and like I had a couple of just amazingly close calls and I was just like, man, this this does feel good.

And you're like covered in dirt and blood and you drop off that package and you go take a shower and you rest, you know, and then you're back at it again.

It's like those moments feel really.

Good and cool.

I was gonna say, I almost disagree, but it's a personal taste.

Where like the times where I had, like I when I was playing the preview build, I had a similar instance where I crashed my truck and it got stuck on some rocks, and I couldn't dislodge it, and it had a bunch of stuff in there, so I was like, oh, I need to go get a tool to get these out, and I kind of liked and also it ran out of battery, so I needed to rest first.

And I kind of like find that charming because there's something about like the Delivery Boy fantasy of like, oh, things like this are going to go wrong and you just kind of have to either deal with it, but like, yeah, I kind of like improvise, and there's it's like a vibe whereas like I kind of like just sitting around here and just wait for the sun to go up and waiting for my thing to recharge and then I'll keep resuming.

Like but I think you also have to be like if you're not in a big rush, like this is a game that is like and I don't know, you had to play it for a review embargo, so you kind of have to keep things moving.

But I think if you don't have that over you, I think is one of those games are like I think you do yourself at the service if you try to just blow through it.

Because I think a lot of the best feeling of the game in between the crazy story moments and the cool like firefights are just like vibe in the world, Like I'm just gonna put some woodkid on and my sound little playlist.

I'm just gonna just take my time just getting through this world.

I'll get to my destination when I get there, and whatever weirdness happens along the way happens, you know.

Yeah, And I kind of like not really, I'm just not really that kind of player though, sure, No, Like I just and you're right, like it is just kind of player preference and personal like like I I kind of approach every delivery like I gotta get this pizza to this like this this cartoon scientist lady, Like if she doesn't get this pizza, like, the world is like literally, we're gonna go extinct.

Like that's kind of the stakes of death stranding.

It's a really important pizza.

You don't like genuinely extinction events are like right around the corners.

Like but but I mean there is like undeniably those moments where like the music swells and you're like just walking up to these like really beautiful sort of settings and it's like that game.

The mood of that game is crazy the like like the vibes of it, that's the design of everything.

It's just like it feels like almost like a music video or something where it's like it's just really interesting visuals for the sake of interesting visuals, and like I think it really is cool.

And you know, that's to say, like it's there's a big improvement over sort of the mechanics of Deus Straining one in my opinion, right, Like, I think the game is a little like easier.

I think it's like more fun to play.

It's like there's less hurdles in your way to get those things done, which I like.

But in a weird way, I think some people might see it as like the the you know, the heart edge is being shaved off of death Stranding.

But I quite appreciated it.

Yeah.

And then and then the sort of like I don't know, I my my negativity starts kind of with the story, but not not to the point where I'm saying, like I wouldn't say it's like bad or not engaging, right, Like the sort of the narrative of the game is still much more interesting than I mean, bluntly like most video game stories, Like there's just a weird universe that's been established here, but it's weird in a way that it's like it makes sense until there are occasions where it doesn't, and it really does like it's just being weird for the sake of being weird, sure, which is like metal Gear has a lot of weird stuff in it.

But the thing I've always loved about metal Gear is that like there's almost always some kind of explanation for why these there's a reason there's a vampire in metal Gear solids.

But I'm not saying it's good.

I'm saying it exists, right, But there were at least and like I'm I'm excited to have like spoiled discussions with people in the future.

I'm not going to spoil any story stuff or deaths running too here, but there are at least like two or three moments where I'm like, talk, let's talk about this and you and I try to figure out what why this happened this way?

Yeah, you know what I mean, Like, I'm looking forward to having those discussions.

And there are like a lot of there's a lot of like big twists and revelations that just like just didn't do it for me.

Really, you know, and I was like, there's there's some cool ones, and like, I really like the last couple hours of the game, the last couple chapters are really engaging and like just visually really impressive, and like, I really it does.

I was joking with Brian as I was working on the review.

I was like, yeah, here's here's where I feel about it right now.

But I haven't gotten the ending, and Hideo kojim is really good at endings, so like we're gonna we'll see how this goes.

And like Death Stranding two as a great ending, like which isn't very surprising, but I just like I just never felt quite as like like surprised or emotionally invested as I did in previous co Gama games or even Death Stranding one.

Sure if I'm being honest, but there is there is some really great stuff.

And like also, like performances are kind of inconsistent from.

The actors because there's a there's this weird thing where there's like they have actors like Ellie Fanning and of course you know, the the leash was that LEAs say do they are They're they're sort of captured for the game, and they're doing the performances and those characters are good, but then they have someone like George Miller, who they scanned, you know, the director of Mad Max.

He plays like a primary character in the game, but his performer or just feels not I mean, I don't mean to be rude, but they just like doesn't live up to the other actors in the scenes usually sure, right, it's I don't know if it's because of that separation where they're having an actor portray you know, someone else visually and it just doesn't fit or well.

I feel kind of the same about Dead Man as well.

Even in the first game.

I kind of felt that way.

Who was like Germo del Toro's body with someone else's voice.

Yeah, Like that's what, Like, does it sound like George Miller if you listen to like interviews with George Miller and cause, oh yeah, no, I'm yeah, they got like an Australian Because George Miller is a really fascinating guy that I adore and I was really excited to see him in the first row.

It's like, oh my gosh, that's George Miller.

Because he's like this, like he's like a former doctor turned film director.

He's like everyone who has ever talked about it and says he's a real sweetheart, and like he's just this kind of like grandfatherly figure.

Like here you always seem interviews he's wearing like glasses and he always has like the chain oh like around like he's always had that like his whole life.

Well, it's like and like they have an Australian actor playing him, or there's someone who's doing a pretty good Australian accent maybe, but it just there's there's a disconnect there that I just kind of pulled me out.

Yeah, I mean because like I've interviewed Sam Lake multiple times.

I've had lunch with him, and when I was in Remedy for the Control cover story, I've had a drink with him after the Game Awards.

So like I've had multiple conversations with Sam Lake in person.

So when I play Alan Wake two and I see Sam Lake in that game, but you know, or I play Max Payne one or two and I see Sam Lake in that game and a different voice is coming out of his mouth and it's not even like a finish accent.

It is just like a flat out American accent.

It's like, Wow, that's jarring.

So I didn't know if they just tried like a completely different voice, or if they went for something that was approximating what George Miller sounds like.

They tried, they tried to find someone, and they did the same for Gammel del Toro.

And you know, honestly, I mean, this is a whole separate conversation, but I don't really love an Alan Wake how they have voice actors and performers and then they meshed the perform I don't really like that either.

I don't think that really works.

But yeah, then there's stuff.

I mean, I I.

Don't like Higgs in depth stranding one.

I think Troy Miller is an amazing Troy Baker.

Yeah, Troy, this is Troy Baker's character.

I think he's a fantastic actor, and I even think his performance as Higgs is good.

He makes some really strange choices for Higgs, and I'm sure Kojimo was like, yeah, let's do it, you know, but he doesn't.

I don't like him.

It's like, at least he's like, I mean, I don't know, you've seen more of him.

It was like I could not stand him in the first game.

I just thought he was just insufferable and also just not interesting, whereas in this game, at least from what I saw of him during my preview, but I was like, well, at least they just went crazy and we're just like, what if he's just a weird cyborg like ninja clown guy with a guitar, And it's like, maybe just the sheer silliness of it will just carry it FORGA Is like, yeah, that's that is I guess more interesting of a at least surface level wise like villain to deal with.

But it's a note that I've always loved that you gave me once, Brian, that I have totally I think maybe might have given it to you.

But sometimes the word interesting just means like you just don't want to say the word bad, you know, sure, I mean I like it's just a way to kind of be like it's like I don't have anything good or bad to say, but I don't, you know, so I'll just say interesting.

And that's kind of how I feel about Higgs Man, like I kind of I just don't I feel similarly about him as I do in the first game.

But he there's more more to the game than Higgs, right, There's more there's a lot more going on than him.

That's good.

Do you like the before you wrap up?

The other big thing with this game is just the combat improvement.

So how do you feel about uh fighting and destrating two compared to the first game?

Yeah, it felt a lot better.

Like those those mad Michelson sequences that we're kind of talking about, you know, which which have there's a version of those in the new game.

Those are a lot more fun and interesting getting stopped by you know, the evil Porters or whatever you want to call them, or like coming across their their their locations is a lot more like it's it's less of a burden because in Death Straining one, you're just like, I gotta deal with this again.

Yeah, in two, it's like it's a lot better, like all the none of the guns kill people, like which is just text, right, that's just like coloring that They just right in there, but it just makes it's just a little thing that's like okay, well all right, then now I feel like I can just unload and have more fun and there's just a lot more options.

It feels close.

I'm not it's not as a high.

It's not as high bars Mell you're solid five, right, But there's it's at least closer to that in the sense that, like you have a lot more tools and combat options and things like that.

But I I still just enjoyed kind of going in guns blazing all the time.

And I had a good time doing that, Like it was fun and like and fighting the sort of the bosses and stuff that like will pounce on you in the in the middle of a delivery and stuff like that.

Stuff's a lot more fun too, because the guns just feel a lot better.

Yeah, So yeah, I mean that's like mechanically, I think it's like it would be really hard for me to go to ever go back to death stranding one.

But and and so like there's definitely improvements there.

The sort of the shortcoming for me is like though I like the narrative and I look forward, I'm gonna be thinking about it for a long time and I look forward to sort of the larger discussions about you know, what it's trying to say and what are the potential meanings and like the weirdness of it all.

It just it did underwhelm me a little bit, sort of sort of the narrative and the big the big moments and twists.

Just did not like hit super hard for me.

But yeah, I gave an a point sim five.

You can read the review on the website right now.

It's I like it.

I do like it more than the than the first one for sure.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Not the story though.

Wait, I'm trying to think back.

What did I say?

I do prefer death Stranding one's story, but mechanically I prefer Death Strainding two and the stories there's a lot of there's a lot of fun stuff in Death Straining too, for sure.

Awesome.

Well, yeah, go check out Kyle's review on Gameeformer dot com right now, real quick, because we promised this last week.

I've been playing I guess for the last few months really Lost in Random The Eternal Die, which released last week.

This is the sequel to Lost in Random, which was a third person like kind of supernatural almost like Tim burtany adventure game.

It looks it looks cool.

Yeah, yeah, do you guys ever play it?

I've never finished it.

I ice scare me.

I don't want to.

I don't want to throw dice.

That's a good bit of war and want to find out about you.

Yeah.

So this is a well, I don't know if maybe you'll like this one better because it is a completely different game in almost every way.

It's it's a completely different developer this time around, and instead of being like the first game was a lot more of a just a traditional third person sort of like action adventure game that kind of blended card based combat with dice rolls because you had a sentient dice buddy that you could throw and like basically do different effects depending on what you roll.

Uh.

Now it's basically at Hades, it's the game.

Hees, Yeah, which I it's it.

I I hate to sound reductive like that, but it really is, like you know, like I think the preview I wrote like a month or so ago, I called it like the Hades effect of like that game has been around long enough now where we're seeing a lot of its best ideas sort of like appear in other roguelikes, whether it's like how they tell their story or just the sort of like the boons that Haiti does like using that it's sort of like a template for how they dish out powers.

I think Lost in Random the Eternal Die is one of the more sort of like I guess, like blatant sort of like examples of like yeah, we really like Hades, and not necessarily in a bad way like it is.

So the premise of the game is that it's technically built as a standalone sequel, but you're playing as the antagonist from the first game, a queen Alexandra who gets betrayed by the Black Dice and is turned into a child and so, but she also has her own dice buddy named Fortune, and you're pretty much just trying to like.

Regain Fortune for Metal Gear Solid too.

Yes, she's back as a dice.

It just is just yeah, yes, and you're just trying to kind of reclaim like everything that you've lost.

So you're going on it's like this isometric you know, top down view.

You're going around these like like the villain you're fighting has kind of dropped you in this ever shifting sort of like world that challenges you that kind of like contextualizes why you're It's a roguelike thing that like, oh ever room changes you go every time you do a new run, and you know the enemies will respawn.

You're fighting the bosses over and over like it, and it's doing the haities thing of like in between runs you're going back to a central hub called a sanctuary, where you're filling it out with these characters that you're meeting during run.

Some of them are from the first game, most of them are brand new, and you're getting like bits of new story every now and then when you talk to them, and then every time you reach a boss that you beat before, there might be some new dialogue exchanges where you're like, oh, yeah, I'm back.

I remember when we fought last time, and I would say, like for to its credit, the combat and the movement feel pretty good, Like it's very quick.

You're like ipping around just like doing hacking slash combos with your sword, kind of like the first game, you're throwing the fortune the dice buddy at enemies, and the big difference is like instead of having all of your combat options dictated by cards, instead, the cards are now basically serve as the sort of like perks or boons, where you can only have one card at a time and each just have a specific effect of like oh, you know, now you can activate a separate attack unless you shoot fireballs or you have lightning powers.

Now it's just sort of just like you have one powerful attack that can be upgraded over time, and you can switch out cards as you find them, but you can only have one.

I'd say like the like the it feels good to play overall, but it does feel like I'm a huge Hades and like I the first game was my game of a year when it came out, and I've loved what I've played of Hades two, which is still an early access right now.

It I've not ben or even gotten like totally halfway through Lost and Random the Eternal Die, but it does feel, I guess, like lacking compared to how much just how much sheer content there is in the Hades games of just like all these this the insane amount of power ups and weapons, and and also like story stuff like the just these sheer amount of just dialogue and conversations and just like sort of like story moments that you can find.

There's a bit of that in this game, but it just feels like maybe like a degree or two less just because of like the game just has a smaller scope, which is fine, but I think if it, like if you're coming from Hades to this, you might feel like, oh, this doesn't feel like nearly as robust as what I'm used to playing that game.

The thing that I think is the most unique about it is sort of the there's a uh, I don't remember what they call it, but there's a progression system where you're finding these sort of like relics and they basically like boost up your abilities.

And the way you do it is that you get these relics and they're all color coded, and you're placing them on a board like a grid, and you're basically when you get one you don't like immediately get the ability, you have to do like a match three where you have to find two more relics of the same color and do like either three across or three horizontal, and when you mash them all up, you get all of the sort of perks tied to those relics.

And so since they're being doled out randomly, you're kind of having to try to decide whether what you want to hold on to of like, Okay, I've got two red, I should probably get the next red if it comes up.

But if it doesn't and I get like a maybe the next best one I have as a yellow, maybe I should put the yellow further down to grid so it doesn't get it a way of the match three.

I'm trying to build my reds, and some of them are dual colored, so you can like work on two different types of power ups at the same time if you match them correctly.

Like that's like a more like that's a pretty cool thing.

Like I'm still like wrapping my head around it, but like just sort of the strategy of trying to plan ahead and sort of create like somewhat of a specialized build of your character just based on sort of like the luck of the draw of whatever you get with which colors, which hasn't been too i guess disruptive maybe because there's not like there's only like four, four or five different colors, so it's like you don't really go too too long before you find the one that you need, but just long enough to worry you do have to make adjustments if you're just getting every other color but the one you're trying to get, and then maybe you'll match up and wind up creating a different build than the one that you were gunning for revisionally, which might still be fine, But other than that, it's been for me, like it has been a like totally fine incompetent like action rogue light that maybe this might be an indictment or a goblin.

I guess it depends on how you want to take it.

Like it's it feels like an appetizer because I'm not playing Hades two right now, Like I've played enough and I'm just sort of waiting for it to go one point ero before I really dive back into it.

But in the meantime, it's like a good appetizer though, right, Yeah.

It's like, oh this is like here's like just a finished one of these that is totally like it's fun on its own merits.

It's you know, it doesn't it does not hit so far the the heights that Hades does, but it's doing like enough of what that game does well to sort of you know, still be like an enjoyable time.

And yeah, that's kind.

Of where I'm at with it, Like, oh, this is this is totally solid, totally solid, like little weird shake up for this for this series.

Well, the good news is that I don't know if you saw the news last week, Marcus, but Hades two is like kind of in the final phase of development before one point ero.

I believe that I did not see that.

That's good to know.

I mean they said that that was coming out, I mean, or at least imply that it would be out before the end of the year, right.

Yeah, and it seems like they are like, yeah, we're getting ready to like basically launch this thing, is what they were saying.

Okay, well, it's good to know soon and hopefully yeah, Lost and Random fans, I guess, but yes, that's that's awesome.

Yeah and Lost in Random.

The Eternal Die is out now and launched last week on pretty much everything PlayStation, Xbox, in PC.

Yeah.

I think it's we're checking out if you're maybe need something like need something in between, uh, waiting for Hades, or if you just want like a totally solid action roguelike.

Yes, cool, real.

Quick before we wind down the show, Uh, Brian, I want to talk to you about the Switch too, because I heard that you're you like Nintendo.

Yeah, yeah, I mean there's yeah, and you know, yeah, there are some evidence to suggest that I keep up with the comings and goings of Nintendo as a company.

So I have been playing a lot of Switch to not as much as I would like to, because I've been busy with life and also a review game.

I've been playing The Alters for review and have been getting stuck on multiple game breaking bugs, so.

That Yeah, I know, we want to talk about it this week, but we're so it's a save time.

We'll have to have you back on when you finish your review and get your complete thoughts on it.

Yeah, I'm waiting for one of my second progress stopping bug to be resolved.

So saw that TBD on the Alters review.

But in the like the interim, I am playing a lot of Switch to Mario Kart World Fantastic.

I think that that game, I don't know if it's quite enough to surp Mario Kart eight Deluxe is the best Mario Kart game.

I think the uh the free Rome stuff is a little bit lacking, but like the courses themselves are top tier.

The I mean, Rainbow Road is I think the best Rainbow Road ever.

Yeah, I still haven't played.

Actually I still have not gotten to it.

I've been working my way through the Grand Prix, but I guess I haven't gotten to the cup with you.

You do have to unlock it, yeah, it's I just kind of was doing it anyway.

Oh it's not like in the existing.

Yeah, you unlock it.

That you you unlock the Special Cup after you beat the other Grand Prix.

Oh okay, good to know.

I think I have two left, Okay, So yeah, that Rainbow Road is phenomenal.

And the music itself though, might be my favorite part of this game, which sounds sounds like maybe I'm like, you know, kind of docking the rest of the package, but like, no, the music is that good that, Like, I don't know if there's going to be another game that comes out this year that I'm going to like the music as much.

And there's been some good music so far.

This just because you haven't played dest Training too.

Yeah, can you can you a wood Kid when you're doing Knockout Tour?

I mean I'm sure you could, but like you just have to have your phone set up instead of But yeah, like I'm really liking that.

I thought that coming into the Switch to, I was going to be like, oh, I'm because I've been itching for the past few weeks to play Breath the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom, like replay them, and I thought for sure, like that would be the thing that I would do with my Switch Too.

But what I'm finding myself doing instead outside of Mario Karte World is starting a replay of Pokemon Scarlet and Violet, and that is because it, like Breatha Wild and Teers of the Kingdom ran fine on the Switch one, they run better on Switch too by a long shot, Like it runs fantastic on the Switch too.

But Pokemon Scarlet and Violet is almost a completely different game because of how much better it runs.

And it's almost to the point where I feel like I want to like re review the game, because I reviewed the Switch one version gave it a good score even though like the tech problems were were really bad.

But I maintain that, and I have maintained that since the Scarlet and Violet came out that underneath all of those awful, awful tech problems that you know they are, they border on inexcusable, that's how bad they are.

Oh yeah, there's one of the best Pokemon games ever underneath all those problems.

And it's like, I want to go through that again and see if it really does hold up to that level of scrutiny, or if maybe I'm like kind of you know, blowing it up in my mind of like, oh, it would be so good if not for these tech problems.

I want to almost like you know, take the Pepsi challenge and go in and see, like, all right, is it actually that good?

Or am I like kind of like misremembering or like, you know, was I too like caught up in wishful thinking?

Back when I reviewed it initially, I suspect that I that it was quite a good game.

It's just you know, on the switch one not so much.

But so that's actually what I've been spending the majority of my time when I'm not playing Mario Kart World on my switch to.

But I've also been looking at other stuff.

Played a little bit of Street Fighter six.

I'm excited to have a version of that on the go that isn't my steam Deck because the steam deck takes up so much space in my backpack that you know, it's gonna be nice to if I just am going to be traveling light, like I'm going on a trip this week, and I am excited to just bring my switch to because it's a much lighter.

It's a much easier proposition to just bring your switch to than it is like your steam deck, your switch, your laptop, all that stuff.

I'm excited for that, but also I've been playing fast Fusion I've been, which you know is more traditional, straightforward kind of racing game than Mario Kart World.

But I'm having a good time with that.

There's there's plenty of awesome third party games, but the problem is, I don't know if you saw those headlines of like third party games are not selling particularly well outside of Cyberpunk twenty seventy seven on the Switch to well.

And I don't even know if it is selling well as much as it was the best selling you know what I mean?

Yeah, because like the early sales, Matt Piscatella over at Sarkana previously NPD said that the sales were like Mario Kart World number one.

Unsurprisingly, these are these are physical sales, by the way, Mario Kart World, Cyberpunk twenty seventy seven and then Tiers of the Kingdom switched to edition, and I could see why that is, Like there's multiple reasons.

Like the first reason I would say is like a lot of these games are older ports.

They like you know, I think a lot of like people who bought the Switch to Rite at launch, like lined up at Midnight are probably the more dedicated gamers and they have probably played games like Cyberpunk or Yakuza Zero if they wanted to on like PlayStation or Xbox, and so I think that that's hurting it.

Also, there were no early reviews, so like, I don't know about you, but when a game came out on multiplatforms and it was a switch one game, I was like, should probably wait for a review for that specific platform, otherwise who knows how it's going to run.

I think there's more confidence instilled in the Switch to by everybody at this point in terms of like performance, but it's still a wild card, right, Like you don't know, Like I from what I've heard, all these games run well, but like does Sonic X Shadow Generations?

Is that going to perform well on switch Too?

And it does if you switch it over to performance mode, I found, But there was that uncertainty for a lot of people.

So I think a lot of people were just like, oh, I'll just get Mario Kart World and then wait to hear after some reviews come out, or you know, watch some YouTube videos of the performance or whatever.

So I think there's multiple reasons for why they're not selling so well.

But there are a lot of great third party games, and you know, CIV seven is a great example of that using the mouse controls and everything.

But yeah, I'm really enjoying my time with the switch too.

I'm just waiting for, you know, the next big games like Donkey Kong or like Pokemon Legend Za or Metroid Prime four.

Those are gonna be the ones that I'm like, really get me full on into, Like the Switch to era right now, it just feels like, all right, I have this device that can play a bunch of other games that I've already played, but also Mario Kart World, Like it's just basically a Mario kart World device if I and I guess Pokemon Scarlet and Violet at this.

Point, but I think that I think they renamed them to Pokemon Functional and Working.

That would be the perfect.

Name for the next got a picture of that stupid motorcycle looking Pokemon, but he's got like a thumbs up and a bandage on his head, like it fixed me.

I'm okay now, Yeah, So I'm very much enjoying the Switch to so far.

But it's like, all right, just in that waiting period for more games to come out, and you know, in three weeks, four weeks or whatever it is, we'll have Donkey Kong Bonanza, so that is looking very after after that direct, I am full steam ahead for that game, absolutely, and of course I'm playing what I know you guys are also playing.

We're all playing this.

It was like one of the first things we all downloaded, which was of course say with me anime it Evil six.

Yeah, the Resident Evil six on the Switch.

Six.

This is this a cloud version or is this like a name?

No?

No, no, no no.

I think I knew it was on Switch to begin with.

Yeah.

I bought it a while ago because I've never It's the one that I the one like modern resid Evil that I didn't finished when like half it the one that got away, and I was like, if I have it on Switch, I'll beat it.

And I played through Chris's campaign a couple of years ago on Switch one, and.

I was like, and I was like, you know what, I wonder if this feels.

Better on Switch too, And it does actually, like it does look and run a little better, And I was like, do I just want to play this game just for the completionists?

And in me, you know, it's like it's not it's the weakest Resident Evil arguably, but it's like it's the one that I haven't checked off.

So I played a little bit of Reseal six and it's pretty good.

Are you gonna stick with it?

I mean it's not a good game, but it runs pretty good, is what I'm saying.

It's like, do you think you're gonna stick with it?

Are you gonna finish?

Are you going?

Because you need to know the story?

Yeah?

Right right?

Yeah, no, I I it's I'm jumping back and forth beween, Yakuza ero and that, but much primarily more Yakuza Zero cause I never played.

Yeah, I was like, this will be a great excuse to play it on my new system, Like this will be the so I've been I think that's.

Pretty securely my favorite Yakuza game.

Yeah, it was actually you telling me that.

That kind of made me go like maybe this is a good a good time to because I'm not gonna if I'm being I'm not going to go back and play the PlayStation version or whatever like it's but if I have a new system, you know, it's like I kind of have that fire under you to maybe do.

You reviewed Yakaza Pirates in Hawaii or whatever it's called Pirate yak Dragon Pirate yak so you're well familiar with Majima, and he is the star that version of him, at least, he is the star of yakas Zero by far.

He's pretty great in that game.

Yeah, I mean he's he's an amnesiac in Pirate Yakuza.

So like, I kind of don't know him, you know, like I know a new version of him sort of.

So I'm excited to meet him, assuming his personality traits are very similar to how he is in every game but Zero, I'm sure, yeah, probably, Yeah.

Can I say as we wind down?

I had a a commercial moment this weekend where I was on a date and I took my We went to Barnes and Nobles to do some book shopping, and I brought my switch to because my date had not seen it.

I was like, oh, we can play Mario Kart.

So we went barn at Barns and Noble.

Yeah hell yeah, and like and.

We went to the you know, the little Starbucks it's like in every Barns and Noble.

We sat down in one of the tables, popped up little switch too.

Got to use the little kickstand.

First time I've gotten to use the kickstand.

H and played some like Knockout Tour split screen.

Uh.

And as we're playing, having a good time, and I guess business was slow because all of a sudden, I feel a presence behind me and I turn around and the like elderly barista is standing behind us, just watching.

And I don't know how.

Long he was there, but the moment that I acknowledged his existence, he looks down and goes, is that the switch too?

And I'm like I knew it, yeah, and he's like, is that Mario Kart?

And I'm like yep, and then he just goes He just folds his arms and just looks very quizzical and he goes, huh, I've heard about this, And I didn't know if he meant like, have you heard about Mario Kart specifically or the switch specifically or both as a package.

And then he proceeded to stand there for like the next file like I thought we were done, like oh yeah, it's such a h and then and then he did not leave for like the remainder of our race, and I had the moment of like, this is a switch to commercial.

This is every dumb switch to commercial of like the people using a switch to in a place that would seem probably improbable or like not likely, and then like a stranger just being way too interested in what the people playing the switch are doing, and you go like, ah, nobody does that.

And you're like, yeah, is this a switch to Yeah, the all in one entertainment console from Nintendo.

Pretty much like just just shive of masking, Like and how much should you pay for that?

Oh, a very low price of FO ninety nine.

And then he takes off running in the other direction.

But yes, I thought i'd share that.

Unfortunately I didn't capture it, so I cannot send it to Nintendo's marketing department.

Now, question though, is there a follow up date?

Yes, yeah, it'll be all Yes, that was the coredition you guys again.

Relationship?

Should I go back there and invite him?

Do you think he's the reason that there's a follow up?

This guy has some impressive technology.

The barista's blown away.

Man, I gotta hang with this guy.

He get random strangers and talk to me about that.

That really is though, the Switch one commercial where they had the infamous rooftop party where they person brought ga was it Mario Odyssey or whatever?

Yeah, I thought their single player game.

Hey, everybody can watch me play video games.

That reminds me.

I wrote a feature a couple of years ago where I went through every Nintendo Switched commercial and I wanted to see every intens of a switch being used outside of the house and did a checklist of have I actually done this with my switch?

And like did a tally of like have I played it at Elena rooftop?

Have I played it at the gym?

Have I played it at like at a weird music recital?

This is just green eggs and ham.

You can say that.

I recommend everybody go look that up because I might have to do an updated version for the switch to in like a year or two when they make new commercials.

I have not played game Chat with Paul Rudd.

Well there's still time.

Okay, yeah, pretty hold up.

But yeah, that will do it.

This week for the Game Informer show, thank you all so much for watching and listening.

One more time, I'll reiterate you know.

We've got our first issue of the magazines as we came back, coming out.

You can go to GameInformer dot com slash subscribe to get your magazine.

Subscription is a wonderful way to support us.

As well to support Saint Jude Boardlands for blazing on the cover and who knows what we're gonna have on our next cover coming up?

We know, Oh but you got it?

Yeah, yeah, you can put your hand secret.

Yeah, it's a big secret at least for the next several weeks or so.

But promise is a good one and the only way you're gonna find out is if you get a magazine subscription.

Darn it, but yes, we will be back next Thursday with another episode.

We will.

Also you can follow us on various social media channels such as Twitch.

We're streaming again, switch dot tv, Slash Game Informer, I was streaming FBC Fire or Break last week.

We're probably streaming something this week.

I'm probably doing desk trending.

Maybe.

Actually, now I think about it, it might be a good one.

Should yeah, yeah, so, And of course we'll be relaunching Replay in the near future, so keep an eye out for that.

So excited, yes, very excited.

And of course you can find us individually on social media as well.

You can find me on Blue Sky at Marcus Stewart seven, which is the number seven.

You can follow Kyle at Kyle H.

Hilliard, I believe still just just.

Kyle Hilliard them for Blue Sky.

Yeah, I'm able to grab Kyle without them.

It's very excited that M out of there.

And you can also follow Brian Shay at Brian P.

Shay.

The P is still there for you.

Yeah, I focus more on synergy across platforms.

I did have the opportunity to get Brian Shay and then it was like, Nope, it's already been well established that is my handle, so I'm gonna keep it.

Keeping spell Brian Shay without a P's true.

I always say yes.

And until next time.

Thank you so much for watching and listening to try to suscribe to us on YouTube as well.

You can watch the video version of this podcast every week YouTube dot com slash game Informer and we'll see you next Thursday with another edition of the Game Informer show.

Bye bye you