So, Bianca, welcome to the Money Games Podcast.

How are you?

I am very well.

Thank you, Sammy.

Thank you so much for having me.

How are you?

I'm very well.

And I just want to say I came across you on LinkedIn and it was just like, this has to be a podcast episode.

I like stumbled into I think it was um a podcast you were on realizing happiness.

Yeah.

And I just ended up watching the whole thing and was like, I think our listeners need to know about this.

But for the listeners today, a little four-on-one into you if that's all right.

Oh my gosh, totally.

I think it was like a mutual appreciation of each other's work as well.

Because we connected on LinkedIn and then you were speaking about some of my work, and I was like, I've just started listening to your podcasts, and I'm sharing them with everyone.

So yeah, very excited to be here on a podcast that I am a big fan of myself.

Thank you.

Of course.

So you work with top companies, you go in, you help teams, you help their workforce, but it could as well like their policies, et cetera, within the businesses.

For someone like that's earning an average salary, say that they're in their first proper job.

What are the invisible financial leaks you think that are caused by chronic stress in the workplace that they might not even notice yet?

Interesting.

Straight in, love it.

Okay.

We don't mess around.

Yeah, I'm here for it.

I'm here for it.

Yeah, we work a lot with all different types of organizations, the different sizes.

And we have coaches across all different areas of health and well-being, an incredible team of financial well-being coaches.

And I think one of from feedback they give me, one of the things they love the most about their jobs is like the diversity of people that we work with.

So, like you said, like they can be in one session with this uh new high-performing grad in their first job in London, in sales or whatever it may be.

And then their next coaching call may be with a caregiver from the Midlands who is in a part-time role and everything in between.

So you're right, there's a lot of different sort of needs and requests and support.

Young people at the moment who are in those sort of coming into the workforce for the first time, they're already up against it in a number of ways.

Um, and if we're looking at it from a financial lens, particularly, what's so complicated against about financial well-being is it's quite a self-perpetuating vicious cycle.

They are stressed about money, they're overwhelmed, it impacts their sleep a lot of the time, it impacts their cognitive bandwidth.

That therefore impacts how they are going to perform at work, and then their performance at work obviously then ultimately impacts their financial well-being.

So the cycle of it, it can be quite a trap for many, for young people in particular.

It's a lot of what was quite similar to us and what we used to worry and stress about in terms of how do they get their foot on the property ladder, how do they even pay their rent, how do they pay to get their coffee with the crazy, particularly those for those in the cities now and the prices that we're seeing.

So everything's really expensive.

The salaries aren't necessarily where the salaries should be, in line with the cost of living now.

And then ultimately they're also coming in post either university or as um apprentices, whatever it might be, with, like I said, a lot against them already.

So it's really tough for them, really.

Yeah, I can imagine.

And what do you think then is that like those indicators you mentioned the financial one, but then then surely there's some in the workplace and the way that they kind of show up there as well.

Is there anything that you in terms of their performance or in terms of their well-being?

What they want in the workplace these days, because it's changed so much.

Like what we used to have before, you'd go in an office, you know, with those big lights and there'd be rows of desks, and that's very much sort of changed.

There's this like new working format, and people coming into the workplace and they're seeing these things.

Like, what do you think is important that companies are doing to kind of help their employees get the best out of themselves, but equally as well perform for the company?

Yeah, it's really interesting.

So Ransdad, who are a big sort of uh recruitment company, services company, they do a report each year across over 26,000 people in over 30 markets.

Um, and interestingly, for three years in a row now, money salary has not been the number one motivator, even within these young people.

And like I said, okay, they're coming out of university or into their first jobs as apprentices, wherever it may be, um, usually from a place where they're under more financial strain than young people have ever been under.

Yet money is still not that number one motivator.

So a lot of workplaces now are having to meet very different needs to what they were when we started, when it was all those desks, the bright lights, the fancy paychecks, the holidays, the fancy restaurants, whatever else they were trying to, you know, get us in with.

Now it's much more around three areas: um, balance, belonging, development.

Okay.

Balance, and I don't like the term work-life balance.

I like the term work-life integration, because I believe that these two things are not opposing forces.

And actually, to want balance is almost to chase something unobtainable.

It almost makes us feel like life is perfect.

Yeah.

It isn't.

Some weeks, months, years, work's going to need more.

Vice versa, life's going to need more.

So work-life integration that's a huge thing, particularly for young people, but across all ages, we're need that one.

Um belonging.

And this is to this isn't just often when we think belonging, we think friendships and things like that.

It's not about that, it's about an alignment of values.

Who am I as an individual and what are my values?

And how does that align with the company and what the company's trying to achieve?

Um, equity and equality, because those two things are very, very different.

And a psychological safety.

Am I seen?

Am I heard?

Am I valued?

Right.

Do I have ownership?

Particularly the younger generation, Gen Z coming in, they want to have ownership.

They want to feel like they're part of something, like they have a say, like their work counts, like they're making an impact.

And then the third main motivator being development, personal and professional.

So, yes, the job-based skills and that professional development.

But more and more importantly, particularly in a time of AI and this huge advance with the technology, personal development, human-based skills.

They want to feel like they are evolving as human beings.

And so they're sort of the main areas now that the workplace is really looking at.

And what are some companies doing really well at the moment that you think that's like something that say you're in a job at the moment and you're like, oh, this doesn't feel right, like the culture's off for me?

Like, what can you look for that's like kind of those indicators?

And how do you get them?

Companies that are trusting their employees and companies that are listening to their employees.

I think these are two areas that are actually on paper fairly easy to get right, but get companies get wrong a lot.

Yeah.

Are we giving our employees trust?

Are we giving them the freedom to design their roles and their jobs and their days in ways that work for them?

So instead of saying you have to be here between these hours or you have to do it this way, or this is the process we follow, actually giving them a level of ownership and accountability to have that flexibility so they feel like I'm an adult, I'm trusted here.

And actually, that almost gives them the motivation then to really want to step up and show up.

Um, and then the communication piece and companies that are listening to their employees.

This doesn't mean they have to implement everything each of their employees says, but it does mean that they are making an effort to hear what they actually want, what they actually need.

So I see a lot of companies that are doing this really well that are given that co-creation and those opportunities for employees to be part of the decision-making process, to have flexibility in what sort of hours they want to work, working from home, that all that big debate, hybrid working, and then the communication piece, having almost um different channels for communication and allowing for that anonymous sort of feedback as well, where employees can feel they can really bring what they want to the company without fearing that it's going to have a negative impact on them, but also on the positive side, just for idea generation, and that they actually have that space where they can come and bring their best, and companies can listen to that, and often that's where companies really innovate.

Yeah, that's so cool.

That's so cool.

And like everyone wants to work in a cool place, don't they?

But some people just don't have that like luxury, I suppose.

They just have to get up and get on with it, don't they?

A lot of the time.

Yeah, and and the thing is with things like trust and communication, they're not the sexy things that you see in the job descriptions or on the website.

And you know, a lot of companies think they can have all these bells and whistles and spend a lot of money on the really nice offices and the amazing perks, and a lot of are needed, but gone are the days where the gym memberships, the office yoga, the sort of fruit bowl culture, you know, individuals don't want that.

They want to be safe, they want to be heard, they want to create, they want to have impact, they want alignment.

So actually, you can eradicate a lot of the things a lot of offices are doing right now and just give the basic pillars to what leads to psychological safety, and you're gonna get a lot more talent in the workplace and a lot more engagement in the workplace.

I always find it so odd, especially like in a corporate environment, but then immediately once you leave the corporate environment, like the those personas often change.

And I always try to install, like, I'm um hopefully Danielle and the team will back me up on this, but I'm like exactly the same in the workplace and exactly the same out of it.

Because it's like human first.

We still have the job to do, but like you're also like, you know, I enjoy like having a chat with you about who you are and understanding you on a human level, because then, you know, if you are struggling with X, Y, and Z right now, maybe we need to pull back on your workload, or we need to, or you're you know, you're smashing it in one area but not so much in the other, and you can have a human conversation rather than a like corporate sit-down with HR, and it's like doesn't feel at that point, you're like you're back up, don't you?

And you're like, oh, I don't really want to respond to that too well.

Well, even in you saying that it demonstrates such a high level of emotional intelligence, and emotional intelligence is the number one trait we see in sort of high performers.

It's 80% of top performers have a high EI.

So you, as an emotionally intelligent leader, know how to lead effectively, how to build relationships, how to build trust, how to create that human-to-human connection.

And like you say, gone are the days where it's about being archaic and not having any problems and being this almost robotic leader that doesn't show weakness or sadness or anything else.

People don't connect with that anymore, and it doesn't engage a workforce, particularly not a young workforce.

The problem being the challenge lies, and we I have this a conversation a lot with my peers and other people in the sort of corporate well-being space of where is that line between being authentic and bringing your true self to work?

And almost you still want to remain professional.

And a lot of individuals who maybe don't have such high emotional intelligence or aren't such strong leaders, or or maybe aren't even leadership positions, but really want to bring their true selves to work, actually can sometimes go the other side of that line, and that can lead to just as dangerous and detrimental workplaces.

You know, we need to try and tread that line carefully, and it's it's that's what I say is one of the toughest jobs for good managers and good leaders is to get people to bring their true selves, their authentic selves, but also we don't want to encourage environments of what you would speak about in your living room because it's not home at the end of the day, it's work and there's jobs to be done, but enough to create that human connection, and yeah, it's it's a really interesting time for that because I think it's been so one way for so long, it's almost going so the other way, and that's posing just as much of a challenge for the workplace as well.

Yeah, like there's a comes a time where I'm like, look, foot down, we need to just get this done because that we have a deadline and we've got to get something out the door, i.e., a podcast or something like that.

And sometimes you just got, you know, can you push through until four?

That's all I need to do kind of thing, and then and then you know, go off and do your thing or whatever that might well be, because yeah, there needs to be that level of intelligence about the human and how much they can handle, but also we've got a job to do at the same time, and you're paid a salary, so you have to balance those things to like try and bring the best out of people.

And it can't that's never be like before, and I I was made a manager of a team of 15 and I was 24, and so like I and that was my first management position, and I was head of the department, and it was a lot, like I've made so many mistakes, and I think over the years I've come to realise like my management style is you know, like I let the team kind of get on with it to a point.

I follow the Richard Branson model is that if you get your job done in four hours, like well done.

Yeah, you know, go and enjoy your afternoon.

And what happens when you do that is that people pick up the next thing, the next thing, the next thing, and they just actually want to work for you, and it kind of is nice that way.

Um and just you know, you're right, like those little things just matter to people more than and they're often not spoken about.

But then if someone said in a different meeting or a room, like what's your boss like, they'd be like, Oh, like he he's really cool, like he just gets he let he gets me.

Yeah, and that that's so important, I think.

Yeah, and it's one of the beauties about smaller teams, smaller companies, it's a lot easier to develop those relationships, understand what is motivating the individuals in front of me because it's like I said, it's gonna be very different if you're looking at your first-time grad to your caregiver to your senior leader who's wants to open up their 10th business and play golf for the weekend.

There's going to be different motivators and different ways to engage and communicate.

So it really is about how well can you, as a leader, understand each individual in front of you, what motivates them, what engages with them, and speak to them and communicate with them in that way.

Um, 83% of managers are accidental managers, they've had no formal training, and so that's why a lot of managers struggle, and it's not the manager's fault, it's just historically we have built a society and workplaces in which the only way to make more money is to get a promotion, and that promotion most of the time means a responsibility for more people.

And so, coming back to your question earlier about where a company's doing really well and engaging people, getting talent into workplace, another one is having clear career progression routes outside of just your historical management progression and responsibility of more people, actually, having other ways to make more money without having to manage people.

Interesting.

Because a lot of people don't want to like people and don't want to manage them, but want the money.

Yeah, I get it.

Yeah, I get it.

Like, I'm okay with that, but I know that there's like certain people I've come across in the they would just love to sit in a room on their own and get their job done.

And like that's totally cool.

But then you're right.

Particularly now, and it's such a technical technological world.

There's so many ways that individuals can bring more to the workplace outside of just managing people.

Totally.

But if you've been in an organization organization for 10 years as an account manager, yeah, uh, your next stop is director, yeah.

Which means you probably stopped doing the stuff you really enjoyed.

And that's why a lot of people like demote themselves back down.

I've seen that many, many times in my career, and I just I find that fascinating.

It's like, no, no, no, I didn't actually want to manage the bar or manage the sales floor.

I just wanted to do sales, I just wanted to serve drinks, I just wanted to do the thing because like that's what I was here for.

Um but can you pay me more?

Yeah, exactly.

Which is really interesting.

Yeah.

Um, so 63% of 18 to 34 year olds are worried about their finances right now.

Um, and that figure's high, you know, that's a your core workforce.

And for me, that spoils over into all aspects of life, but most notably the workplace and their well-being as individuals.

And this is actually on the rise.

Why do you think that is, do you think?

It's really staggeringly high.

It is mad 63% of 18 to 34 year olds.

Wow.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Why is that?

It's you know, that's it's a huge huge question, right?

And for such a plethora of reasons.

There is so much going on in the world at the moment.

The speed of change that is occurring, not just in the workplace, but at societal, at global level.

The amount of uncertainty that is within that.

There are so many moving parts that is impacting individuals, their well-being, their financial well-being, their view of who they are in the world and what gives them that stability is being severely questioned.

So I think it's such a complex array of multiple local, societal, global issues and challenges really that is having a huge impact on that number.

Do you think it's large part of it is like down to this kind of like social media status that they have to chase outside?

And so they're they're like having to keep up with everybody, and that may be playing into it.

I think that social media definitely creates unrealistic expectations for individuals, 100%, and it definitely creates this perspective that you can work hard, and next year you'll have your private jet, and you'll be CEO of your company, and you can work every other month from Bali and whatever it might be.

And it has many detrimental impacts on individuals again of all ages, it's not just the young, but particularly the young, and think 18 to 24-year-olds are three times more lonely than over 65-year-olds, which is wow, yeah, again, staggeringly high and scary.

And the age group we probably think are the most connected, are actually the most disconnected.

So social media has a huge impact on these perceptions and what many think is a reality, which is not.

But I'm not sure it's to blame for actually the day-to-day challenges that they see when it comes to their financial well-being.

Because actually, for me, when we look at what they're really worried about, it's paying rent.

It's getting on that corporate ladder, it's being able to afford their tickets, their coffees, it's being able to take a holiday once a year.

It's very everyday things that they're things that shouldn't actually be a privilege for.

Yeah, we see that as normal.

Yeah.

And it should be normal.

They're working really hard.

So it does feel unfair that these things are so obtainable for them.

Um but on the same hand, I think whether social media has the most negative impact is that they almost have such high ambitions and goals and a false sense of what reality looks like, and not necessarily the strongest generation when it comes to delayed gratification.

And again, that's not their fault.

They've grown up in a world that is so instant.

Within one swipe, you have a pizza, one swipe you have a taxi, one swipe you have a boyfriend or girlfriend.

Do you know what I mean?

And so everything's instant.

And so now when we're looking at them, particularly in the workplace setting, and Gen Z in particular, they get a very hard time, I think, about their boundaries and about their expectations and about their drive and their motivation.

They're actually an incredibly hard-working, motivated young group of people when you give them the right environment and the right tools.

They're just not motivated by things that we may have been motivated by and what their leaders are motivated by.

So I think a lot of it comes down to actually understanding them better and giving them the correct environment, but also really helping them.

Under 30s have a 30% lower resilience than any other age group.

Again, and a lot of that comes down to this instant gratification.

So they have never had to learn delayed gratification, which is a skill.

So we almost now have a responsibility as the leaders, as the role models, to say how are we teaching these people long-term gratification?

How are we helping them build their resilience so that they have this fundamental skill for life that they have not developed through no fault of their own?

And that's where I really stand with that one.

Yes, I'm back that resilience aspect because that's just a big part of what you like speaking about.

And I think it's so fascinating because that's that is crazy 30% less.

Um but what makes an individual like resilient in today's day and age?

And like, how can you go out and feel, you know, arm yourself with the tools that you feel like you need to face in this like fast and ever-changing world?

Let me put it back on you.

What do you break it down?

Look at your face, but break it down first into like Welcome to my podcast.

So resilience.

What when I say the word resilience, what does that mean to you?

Uh the ability to solve problems at scale without it letting it impact your day-to-day or like emotional well-being.

Okay, amazing.

And then yes, in a way, it totally is.

So if we looked at the the di dictionary definition from the American Psychological Association, don't quote me word for word, but it's something along the lines of dealing well in the face of adversity, trauma, challenge, or threat.

So, like you said, this ability to overcome, not even necessarily at scale, it can be one thing at a time, but it's the ability to overcome what we perceive as discomfort or pain or grief or stress.

Now if you think back to a time where you felt capable to overcome discomfort, it's likely you felt that way because you knew you had done it before.

Yeah.

Whenever we feel weak, we think, okay, I don't like this, or this is hurting me, or this is scaring me, or I may not enjoy this, but actually I can overcome this.

And that really is what resilience is.

It's that inner belief that I don't have to like it, but I can overcome it.

And so that is a learned skill at a cellular level.

Learned.

Learned.

Because even at cellular level, your body has to listen learn to respond to stress.

So if your cells have never been put under stress, they don't learn that cellular response.

It's like when you go to the gym and you tear the muscle and then the muscle repairs and it grows back stronger.

It's exactly the same with us when we go through discomfort.

It happens, it can break us at the time, we learn to heal it, heal it, heal it, we come back stronger.

Interesting.

So, like if you had come from, say, you know, the perfect family where mum's done everything for you and dad, you know, is kind of taking you to everywhere.

Don't you stand a chance.

No, like you're gonna struggle with that, right?

But just because you've had you've not been like left out, whereas the kid that left home at 16 and had to get on with it and find their way and has done really well for themselves over time is a res has like got battle levels of resilience, right?

Yeah.

Um, that's really interesting.

Yeah.

So like if you're sitting there today and you're thinking, oh, you know, I struggle with a lot and I struggle to like overcome problems or challenges, because a lot of us do.

Like, I was watching Freddie Flinthoff's um the cricket uh documentary last night, and it's really interesting, like watching the dynamics of the children.

And uh the one that had been was in care and was like really had it hard, yeah, came out and was like the number one superstar in a team.

Yeah, and the one that was like lived at home, had really nice parents, you'd think, oh, you know, set everything set up for that individual, couldn't do it and got hit with a ball and was the one that kept crying and like was having a really tough time.

And I just found that fascinating.

And as you're saying that, that just popped into my head, and I just found it like super interesting.

And it's and it's to a point, firstly, as well.

Like even the most resilient people in the world, they have their limits.

And we look at the psychological studies, I can't remember what the exact number is, but there is always a certain point when you go above that, and then that can have severe negative impacts on individuals.

Um we've all got our limits.

Yeah, exactly.

We're all human beings, right?

Yeah, but it's even that when you listen to podcasts like this, and you listen to your Richard Bransons of the world, and I always speak to my team about this.

I always say, you know, you listen to these podcasts, and the people that, and I use this term loosely successful, people who are successful from a business perspective, they never sit on those podcasts and speak about how easy they had it and what a beautiful life they had, and how perfect everything was, and then they had this business idea and they created the business, and all of a sudden the business was a success.

They talk about like the trials and tribulations and just how difficult and all the challenging points that led up to that moment in their life, and that's that resilience being built because you need it because then when you're in these really difficult positions, you have that underlying fire in your belly and that belief in yourself that you can overcome it.

Um, and going back to like that under 30s piece, they've been fortunate enough on the whole, when we're speaking about people sort of within the UK and first world countries, developed countries, where actually it's been easier than ever to stay alive.

And so this learned skill and trait has been taken away from them almost because everything's been given to them.

And so now we're seeing this huge detrimental impact of that because they're stepping into the workplace, they're stepping into uncertain times, political unheaval, fight, economic uncertainty, technological advancements.

Like there's so much going on in the world.

Post-COVID-19 was it was such a formulative period for so many of them, and actually they don't have this very basic skill they need, and they're now looking how do I learn this?

I take an example of like Matthew McConaughey as an example, like incredible human in my eyes.

And like his mum used to kick him up, like they wake up, and then it was like you aren't you aren't allowed in the house until it gets dark, yeah.

You're out, like you figure out life, right?

Just get yourself into trouble, do things, just building up resilience, versus the kid who's given us an iPad from the age of five, you know, locked on their phone, yeah, the heating's on, you know, it's it's nice and it's kind of cool.

Obviously, there's gonna be differences there when those two individuals step into the workplace.

Like they're just gonna have they're just gonna be built different, yeah.

Just from learned experience.

100%.

Um, so for someone who's like needs to build some resilience or feels like they've not got it, like what can they do?

Oh, yeah, so I forgot that was a question.

We went round the house of time.

No, it's great.

You answered it amazingly, but yeah, I'd love to know if you like, because obviously you work with learn skill.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

I always say when it used to be my private clients, or when I'm giving my talks, um, one of my favourite lines is get comfortable being uncomfortable.

And so I don't care if you're going and having an ice bath every day.

Although females, please don't do that.

It's not good for your hormones, despite what social media tells you.

Um, I don't care if you're going on the date you're scared to go on.

I don't care if you're having that conversation with your manager to ask for that promotion.

It might be in the gym at 6 a.m.

every morning, it might be going to a dance class where you don't know anyone, and all of these things are going to train you.

I can be uncomfortable, and that is okay.

And so I say to individuals, find what works for you, but you want to be doing something at least once a day that makes you feel uncomfortable.

Once a day.

Once a day, no matter how small.

But you have to learn that skill.

I personally think exercise is one of the most powerful ways to do that.

Yep.

And we look at all the science behind the impacts of exercise on depression, on anxiety, and actually on financial performance.

On financial performance, yeah.

100%.

It's one of the most powerful things we can be doing.

As human beings, we were never designed to sit at desks all day, to sit on the tube, sit on the cars, whatever it might be, to sit on our devices.

We were designed to move.

And so cortisols, our stress hormone, it builds up, it's very physical.

It needs to be broken down.

It needs to be metabolized.

So exercise for me is one of the biggest things.

If I could just to say you're an absolute beast on your Instagram.

Every time I log in and I'm like, there on a Sunday morning, and you're like, yeah, I've just smashed like 10K around.

I'm like, wow, Bianca, you're just absolutely making it, but like you go for it because you train like very hard, don't you?

Yeah.

And it's interesting because I class myself as a pretty resilient person.

And I don't think we all have to have like deeply, deeply traumatic stories to be resilient.

I think it could be learned in smaller challenges and things, you know.

But I did it the other day.

Like I went and joined a local team, so I just moved to the area and I don't know anyone.

Yeah.

So it's like, well, I know I know my family.

Yeah.

That's just not enough.

Do you know what I mean?

Like I love them, but after a while, it's like, you know, I need someone to that wants to go and watch the football.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Something like that.

So I've just joined a team.

And it like that was so hard.

Like walking in to the first time and just like, you know, I knew no one.

Feeling like you're at school again.

Yep.

Exactly.

Yeah.

First day vibes.

Yeah, the new kid.

Yeah.

And by the end of it, I had numbers and like it.

And I walked away.

And I was flying.

It was like I've had like those endorphins were just rocking around my body.

And I was, I felt a million dollars.

Yeah.

And it it's just small things like that just pushing us.

And that endorphin and that confidence boost, particularly as an adult, because it's hard to make friends as an adult.

It's really hard.

And it's hard almost to have the confidence we had when we were children before life had beaten that confidence out of us, before we had this negative image of ourselves or how others might view us, you know, when you were just in the playground and you'd be like, hi, I'm Bianca, be my friend.

Yeah, that's hard as an adult.

Yeah.

Um, so I I really, really love that.

And for me, I'm very open about it.

When I started my company, I say to everyone, outside of the year that I lost my dad, that was the hardest year of my life.

But last year was brutal.

And you're just dealing with problems and challenges all day, every day, and you almost forget who you are, why you did it, and why you want to help other people's well-being.

Because you're like, I don't even know what well-being is anymore.

Yeah, look at me.

Yeah, exactly.

And so I signed up to a 550 kilometre ultra marathon race.

I hate running.

I hate running.

I didn't sign up.

I was asked to do it, so I said yes.

I probably wouldn't have signed up.

550 kilometers.

550 kilometers, team of six.

You ran from LA to Vegas, fastest team wins.

Oh, I did see this.

Yeah.

Wow.

It was it was outrageous.

That's like pure desert because I've driven that journey and then at-is it 200 kilometres uphill and then 350 kilometers flat on two roads.

Yep.

And the land is mental.

Like you cross over one ridge and you think, oh, the 100% were there by now.

And then it's just the same again for like as far as the eye can see.

It's insane, isn't it?

It was absolutely wild.

And actually, the race itself wasn't that difficult because I'd done all the training for it.

I had they asked me in the November, I think I had the race was in March.

I think I had had six months in total.

But I was training on my own, in the dark, through winter, running, a sport I hate.

I don't have any enjoyment.

I don't get any gratification from it.

I was like, but after, I'm like, no, after my feet hurt, my knees hurt, I don't like it, I like I love a barbell.

Um in Hackney, in the winter, in the cold, in the rain, 5am before work starts, because that's the only time I had to myself.

And actually, that training was such a reminder to me of how resilient I am.

And I genuinely believe like that race actually gave me what I needed last year to not give up on my business.

Because actually it was worse than running a startup for one, so it put everything into perception, but but also because it just reminded me like actually at the end of the day, all you have to do is put one foot in front of the other, and you do that for long enough, and you hit that finish line.

Sounds like you were at a crossroads.

Yeah.

And you had the choice left or right.

I'm going left.

Or I'm going right, like, and I'm I'm just gonna stick to it.

Because the other way is sofa, ice cream, feeling sorry for myself, business goes tits up, and then I will hate myself even more for those decisions.

So exactly.

And eventually the pain stops.

And for the listeners, it's not about oh, I need to go run a 550 kilometre ultra marathon because I'm also not about social media glamorizing these ridiculously hard challenges and making them feel normal.

Because that isn't, yeah, that is not normal.

Um but it is like, are you moving your body?

Like, are you even getting out for a 15-minute walk in the morning is before work, it's a start.

For sure.

Taking 20 squats in your lunch break.

Yeah, one more, like one more 20 minutes on the bike a week.

Like it doesn't have to be much, but it is about I can be in discomfort, I can train myself to be in discomfort, and actually I can teach my brain that eventually that discomfort stops.

And when it does, I feel I nine times out of ten feel better than I did before.

Yeah, because like resilience is power.

Yeah.

Like people search for power, but actually being resilient is is your power.

It's a superpower.

It's a superpower.

Yeah, it really is.

And you obviously talk about long-term performance as well.

And I'd love to know like an example for you where someone could be yourself, it could be someone that you've met, um, like a small little mindset mindset shift or well-being shift that has kind of snowballed.

Because for me, this compounds if you're doing this every day, if you're doing the 15 minutes every day, eventually it's going to compound.

And where it's created like a really nice outcome in someone that perhaps was struggling before.

For me, with all my work, I always want to encourage people to find what is right for them.

I don't believe that there's a one-size-fits-all approach to well-being, to performance, as I love to call it, sustainable high performance.

And so for some people, it might be their nutrition, for others, it might be their movement, for others, it might be their sleep.

A lot of the time, it might be your relationship with yourself.

Um, it could be your relationship with those around you.

So it's about identifying like actually what do you need as an individual, really understanding yourself, not what's not what works for your partner, your parent, your child, your colleague, your boss, your best friend, but what's going to work for you?

And really, that step one is that awareness of yourself.

And are you being intentional with knowing who really are you?

How do you want to show up in this world?

How do you want to move through this world?

I always say to everyone there is no more important conversation than the one you have between your two ears.

It's the first voice you hear, it's the last voice you hear.

So, actually, what does that conversation sound like?

And so much of the time we're so worried about what other people are thinking and what other people are doing, and this whole like spotlight syndrome that we forget to actually check in with ourselves and say, like, who am I?

What do I want?

What's right for me?

And until you know that, everything else you do, it's not going to work because you're not basing it on yourself.

My partner said to me last night, um, all thoughts are delusional, so you might as well make them positive.

Yeah, I love that.

And I was like, oof, yeah, that hit me right in the feels.

Yeah.

And I just like you have to, you're you can get so bogged down in like the the you know, glass is half-empty mentality about life, but then that ends up manifesting in all aspects of your life.

Um, and for me, I see a lot of like my parts of my life as like sort of little indicators, and that's the way I like looking at them.

So, like when I look at like okay, my my exercise right now, I've just moved house, my exercise indicator is really low, and it's not like how I'm happy, so I know that that's my next like improvement.

But the others are all sort of okay and at good levels.

Like, I'm all right up here at the moment, and you know, there's like your mental health indicator, there's my money indicator, like, is everything sort of right?

And some things can be down.

And I think to get like sustainable high performance, as you call it, it's like you have to be attuned with those sort of monitors, almost like a sound wave or a desk, and know that okay, this one's really low at the moment.

I need to push that little fader back up to give myself the abilities.

And eventually, when you do that, because life is life and we're in different seasons, especially if you have kids or you're in a very high performance role or you're just trying to get by, when you do that, the other something else will come down naturally because you haven't you're not giving it as much focus and your nutrition, or it could be a range of different factors.

So I just like to think like we instead of bit and you're right, like instead of thinking of it as like one individual thing that you can do, it's like just understand that you're gonna go through periods of life, stuff's gonna get hit, and it's just the way things are, you know, bereavement or losing your job or having just a rough time at life, or everything's going great right now, but actually something over here isn't.

Um, there's always one thing.

And I just think it when you can do that, it it you can have a really good emote like internal intelligence about yourself, which is like really, really difficult to get a hold of.

Yeah, kind of that's the emotional intelligence piece, right?

Exactly.

And that awareness of yourself and your own emotions, motivations, but also a deep understanding that you're just a human and you're not always going to get these things perfect, like you say, and being more realistic.

I think so often we're so unrealistic about what we expect from ourselves, and we have these huge ambitions and goals, which is great.

And I'm a big fan of ambitious, goal-driven people, but so often we're moving the goalpost before we've even scored the goal.

Yeah, and then we wonder, well, why am I never happy?

Why am I never fulfilled?

Why is it never enough?

And it's like, well, how often do you stop to actually take check of just how far you've come and how far you've got, as opposed to how far there's left still to go?

And for ambitious-driven people, the idea of not giving 110% to something can feel so alien.

But this is where I argue the sustainable piece comes in.

If you could just give 80% across the board, how much further would you go more effectively enjoying that journey more than a stop, start, stop, start, peaks, troughs, peaks, troughs?

And actually, that is then what gives you the energy when things do go wrong, when life does happen, when things are out of control, again, you have that resilience because you have the energy to deal with these things effectively.

You're not burnt out, you're not exhausted, you're not running on fumes.

And so often the time when I'm looking at top performers and when I'm giving my talks, a lot of the time when I was doing my sort of one-to-one coaching, I think I've got almost 13,000 one-to-one coaching hours now, right?

Like it's a lot.

And this is probably one of the most common things I saw was actually getting high achievers to take their foot off the accelerator slightly to understand that's gonna get them further faster.

Thinking fighter pilots call it like the area of reverse command, right?

Where they actually have to lower the gears to build the frost to accelerate the jet forwards.

Yeah.

And that's what I try and get people in the frame of thinking about when it comes to their performance as well.

One more healthy meal, one better night's sleep, one more day of movement, one more hour with yourself and your internal conversation, one more hour with your therapist if you're so lucky to have one, all of these things.

And I always say it's like squash and pouring your squash in your water.

And so when you start pouring squash and water, you don't see any colour difference, you don't see any taste difference, but you pour enough little drops, and eventually the entire flavour and drink you're drinking is completely different.

It's exactly the same with our mental well-being.

This isn't gonna make a difference, or I can't be bothered to do this, or I don't have the energy today.

But you do it 1% every day, and eventually you get a whole different drink.

I love that you said that.

I literally love that you said that because it is so true, and I I have a like a personal thing there.

There's one thing as well, which I think really helped me, and I I can't remember who said it, but I started doing it in my life, and it was the small little things.

So, like they said, Oh, if you're making your other half like a cup of tea, or you're making yourself a cup of tea, make it the best cup of tea, like the best cup of tea, like you were Heston and like you were obsessed about making the best cup of tea, or if you're folding the napkin because you're making the table, fold it the best that you could make it, like the tiny little things, and just when you approach every single little thing like that in your life, you just start having a really different like outlook and it starts to span over everything that you do.

And one thing you said there, which I loved, was that um I had an example of that was um when I was building up the gains at the start, I was you know, high performance role in the hospitality space as a director.

You know, we have multiple venues, hundreds of employees, and I was building up the gains as a side hustle.

I was doing like 18 hour days sometimes, sleep up, five, go again.

And you just go so hard, and eventually it like it manifests in you know, burnout or other things.

But actually, the moment that I started putting how my body and my nutrition and my sleep first, everything went through the roof, and it manifested in my work, and which is probably what most people are worried about.

But they just forget that these are all these other strands interconnect, like sleep for now for me now is like so important.

Oh my gosh, and and consistency with sleep as well, which is really difficult for young families, etc.

And we totally get that, but there are other things you can do, nutrition, like if you're sleeping bad, don't eat bad.

Yeah if you and try and get in the gym, because then if you're like doing all three bad, it's going to manifest in your work and how you show up with your family, which then means life sucks.

So yeah, and the problem is two things on this.

Number one, it's the boring, unsexy stuff that works.

It's the prioritizing your sleep, it's the eating your vegetables, it's the drinking your water, it's the moving your body, it's not the sexy stuff that's on social media, it's not the stuff that's thrown in your in your face in the shopping departments, but it works.

It's just boring and it's repetitive, and there is no two ways about it.

That is what health is.

And then on the sleep one as well, like this is huge.

So a third of people in the UK don't sleep enough, and a third, on top of that, don't sleep correctly.

And we're in this sort of sleep like epid pandemic itself, really.

And I went to a biohacking summit a few weeks ago because that's what I do with my weekends.

And I loved Tim Gray, um, who is a big biohacker online.

I loved how he framed this.

He said that we should reframe sleeping as repairing.

You don't build muscles in the gym, you damage muscles in the gym, you build muscles in your sleep.

And he was like, How different would our approach to sleep be if we thought of it as this is where we're building, this is where we're repairing.

And I really love that because in the corporate world particularly, it's one of the first things that gets pushed to the side.

And like you said, we have to be realistic.

There's people with young children, there's people working multiple jobs, like there's a there's it's a complex topic, but for a lot of people, it's also something that can be one of their priorities if they so choose for it to be so.

And I think it's really important they do because when you look at the science and the impacts of poor sleep, broken sleep, like it's terrifying.

And so actually, we need to try and glamorize sleep again.

Like, we need sleep.

We were never born not to sleep.

And I'm the same as you, it's one of my non-negotiables now.

This little thing.

I broke up with mine, but yes, okay.

I broke up with mine, um, which is a whole podcast for a whole other day.

But yeah, they are, and I think they're amazing for people who need to build their awareness.

Well, this was it, is that I'm I noticed the moment I didn't have a bad sleep because you got your stress monitor.

Yeah.

And like, how's it ending with the day?

And I'd be like so maxed out in the high or medium to high, and then great night sleep, I'm low to medium all day.

And that's that resilience is like a resilience for the day as well, was basically your sleep.

Yeah, no, definitely.

And like you said, like if you can't do one, where can you put your focus on the other?

So nutrition is huge.

And again, this doesn't mean you have to be spending loads of money on fancy meal prep companies or you know, all of these supplements.

I actually say to people, forget the supplements.

Unless you're completely innate in the basics, they're probably not going to do much anyway.

So you're better putting that money into organic veg if you have that luxury.

Yeah.

Um, but 80 to 90 percent of our neurotransmitters, so our serotonin, our garbage, our dopamine, they're manufactured in the gut.

Yes.

They're released by the brain, but they're made in the gut, and the gut's everything from your mouth to your anus.

For every cell in your body, there's 10 pieces of bacteria in your gut.

Effectively more gut bacteria than you are a human cell.

And when we look at anxiety, stress, depression, so many of the challenges we face actually when we start to fix the gut, it starts to heal the brain, it starts to change the mood, short term and long term.

So when I'm saying to individuals, like again, be realistic, but actually, the number one predictor of good gut health is the biodiversity of fruit and veg in your diet.

So can you add one more colour to each meal?

Yeah.

That's simple.

I'm doing this Dave Espery thing at the moment, which is uh like the 25 different varieties a week.

Yeah, nice.

So it's really interesting.

Like we have a nutshell with like loads of different things in it, and every each week we like add a new thing, shake it, yeah, and add that in, and that contributes to it.

Yeah, because it can be like dried and seeds and things as well, which is really good.

And I just pop it on top of the yogurt in the morning, and then that's like a really good way, and then just alternate the fruit that you put in the yogurt each morning.

Exactly.

And you're getting such a wide variety, making it simple, lowering that barrier to entry, habit stacking.

And it's delicious, yeah, delicious.

And like that, that's a really good example, like this habit stacking piece.

So you know you're going to have that for breakfast every morning anyway.

You know you have yogurt for breakfast.

So actually, by adding something that's going to seriously impact your health into that, you're not having to do anything different.

The habit's already there.

You're just stacking something on top of it.

So I say this to my when I used to do a lot of PT.

I'm like, okay, well, you know you're going to watch an hour of Netflix anyway, so just do it on the treadmill.

You know, your habit stacking, you've got the habit there, like then let's just make it healthy.

You know, when you wake up in the morning, you're going to switch your alarm off.

So just drink that pint of water then and there.

Like build it into routines in a way that works for you.

Are you a fan of this morning morning routine?

So morning routines, I'm a huge fan of, but I'm not a fan of the 5am club, even though I'm someone that loves 5am, because for me it works for me personally, but I appreciate it doesn't work for everyone.

So I always say to people, I don't care when you wake up, I care about how you're using that first hour ideally when you are awake.

And again, people have children, you know, it's not always going to be perfect, but I say to people, like, even when you wake up, please just go and brush your teeth before you check your phone.

Like so many of us, as soon as we wake up, not even eyes properly open, and suddenly your phone's there, WhatsApp, email, 300 slacks, Instagram, X, whatever it may be.

And then we wonder why we get to 11am and we're completely exhausted, anxious, wired, tired.

And it's like, well, you haven't even got out of bed before you've given your brain a moment to center in on the new day.

Yeah.

So for me, I'm I'm really big on morning routines, but again, like I if it's an hour, amazing.

If it's just five minutes of no tech, still really, really good.

Like I just want people to start their day intentionally.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

I bought one of those bricks.

Have you seen those?

I feel like you're you're the consumer's like the gadget's dream.

Basically, if Dave's Asprey, Chris Williamson, or anyone else mentions anything, I am like a sucker.

I'm like, I'm in.

Yeah, let's give it a go.

Take my money.

Yeah, take my money and let me test it.

Just like, because I'll a lot of this I test for three months and I'm like, okay, like whatever.

Yeah.

You know, like I did the whole really expensive supplement thing and all designed for you and your blood and stuff like that.

And other than the bloods, which was really interesting, like the actual supplements did nothing.

And I was like, you know, £200 a month on top of that.

Like, what am I doing?

Yeah.

Rather just buy organic, get just correct.

Deliver me Riverford box and uh butcher's on the organic meats, and like that's way better for you.

Um which is why I love what you said that.

But I got brick for the phone thing, because that is a problem for me when I go to bed and also um when I wake up.

And so uh brick now is like it's a little unit, it's like a little magnet, and it goes on the kitchen side.

Um, so I have to get up and I have to go down in the morning because that's what the app does, and then I have to scan my phone just to get on social media or look at my emails or WhatsApp or anything like that.

So I physically can't do anything.

The only thing I can go on is um is like the internet.

Good.

So it's like even that I'm like, oh whatever.

I'm like, what are we gonna do on the internet?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So your brain doesn't think like that, you just immediately want that connection.

Like, who's around?

What someone said about me, or like someone said something in the comments for me, especially is huge.

Um, so I find that like that's it's those little blockers you can place, and you're right, like my my other half is her routine is like a cup of tea and that's it, and she's absolutely fine.

I'm like, must get sunlight, do the coffee, delay caffeine, get your electrolytes in.

But I just love it, and that's for me.

It's finding what works for you.

What works for you.

Her routine is evening, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Eight or ten, she's doing her thing, and that's she and she does it every day, and so it's very different for yeah, like say it's knowing yourself as an individual.

Like for me, what probably is one of the biggest impacts on my own well-being this year, since I've got my dog.

When I walk him in the morning, I don't take my phone.

Oh, interesting.

And actually, just that 30 minutes, just walking around the park with him.

Well, if I do take it, it's on plane mode because he's so cute, I want to get photos of him sometimes.

Like, damn it, I missed the phone as well.

Exactly, exactly.

There's been a few moments where the foxes have been there, and I'm like, oh, I think I can play with the foxes.

Um, and it's like a Disney film, but yeah, and so for me, and actually I I wasn't expecting it to have such a huge impact on my mental health, but it really has.

It's been half an hour in a day where I know the rest of the day is going to be me at the beck and call of everyone else, building a health tech startup, delivering keynotes on podcasts.

We've got customers across the globe now, so we're in all those different time zones.

And actually, it's just like if anyone needed me by now, someone would have phoned me.

And so, what is an extra half an hour to myself to just be with my dog?

And not even anything fancy or glamorised.

That's why you got the dogs in him, yeah.

Yeah, 100%, and the joy that he has being a puppy, seeing all these things for the first time in the world, and like you said, it's making that cup of tea like it's the best cup of tea you've ever made.

It's what was the other walking the dog like it's the best ever walk.

Exactly, all of these things, and actually what they're doing is they're bringing you back to the present moment, they're priming the brain to look for the good and to appreciate and to be excited, but they're also just priming the brain just to be there, and as human beings, we're so rushed and we're so constantly chasing our tails and the next thing in our to-do list, and we're so overwhelmed and anxious and stressed that just being intentional about being where we are can have such a fundamental impact on how we feel.

Yeah, yeah, totally.

And I love that you said that.

It's just it is small wins.

Yeah, just take the small wins because you're never going to conquer life, it just doesn't exist.

So I think we should just stop trying.

And that you said earlier, and actually, you do this, and then you end up being better at your job anyway.

That's what I mean.

Yeah.

Because you have more energy and you're more positive, and you feel better about yourself, and you can be creative.

I don't mean creative like going and writing songs or painting art if you want to do that, great, but being creative in business, which at this time in the world in 2025 has never been so important to be able to be creative, to solve problems, to work together, to communicate effectively, and you do all of those things with so much more acuity because you actually had the energy to do so.

And yeah, I used to get this from my private clients all the time after about six months of coaching with me.

They would say to me, and I've lost count how many people said this, they say to me, Bianca, the strangest thing has happened, and I'm like, What's happened?

I have had so many comments recently about how much nicer I am.

And I'm like, Yeah, because have you ever met a happy dick?

Sorry, you might have to edit that out.

Sorry.

We swear on here all the time.

When people are happy, they're nice.

And so they've actually taken this decision to go on this journey with themselves, to get a coach, to take control of their health, to take control of their performance.

And we just look at every sort of area of their life.

And through doing that, they're sleeping better, they're eating better, they're moving better, they have more energy, their performance at work is skyrocketing, and their families, their friends, their colleagues, the people in their team, they're all commenting on how much nicer they are to be around.

So if you're that sounds like you, like you're there and you're worried about how nice you are being to yourself, but equally to others around you at the moment, like if you've not got thousands of pounds to invest in a high performance coach, you obviously there's you mentioned that some of the things you do, exercise and nutrition, yes.

But was there anything else that they can do like online or speak to people that you you think out there's out there?

Yeah, definitely.

And also just a disclaimer for any of my clients listening to this, they weren't dicks before.

Do you know what I mean?

They weren't expecting that to be a byproduct of that journey, but it's actually because they elevate themselves so much as people.

It's just a noticeable change, isn't it?

It's a noticeable change, yeah.

So people can be listening to this now and they might think, well, I'm not I'm not bad to be around.

It's not that you are, but it's just actually about how you can be better for yourself and those around you.

And so there's I think it's a really fun thing about the times we live in now.

This whole community thing is massive.

And there's so many cool brands doing so many cool things in this space, a lot of it for free, free run clubs, free talks, free events.

So I would say to people, make sure that you're finding like-minded individuals.

So if you don't if you can't have a coach, which is a big luxury to many, actually, is there certain groups you can join, um, online or in person?

Like seek others out who are on similar journeys to yourself.

Yeah.

Often as well, when we're very driven and we go down this path of self-development, it's your friend Chris.

You I know you love him.

Chris speaks about this a lot.

This um, I think he calls it the the sort of the period of loneliness or something like that.

Uh, in between two things.

Exactly.

And when you're del you're developing and you're growing, so you sort of outgrow your current circle, but you haven't quite reached that next circle of people.

Yeah.

And so a lot of people who are sort of leading in businesses or running their own businesses or have these really exciting goals and ambitions, they often find they are very lonely because the work itself is lonely, but also they find it hard to have others who connect with them.

So I think it's really, really important to seek out like-minded others.

What events you like, what you're interested in, that's amazing.

We do live in a time now with amazing AI.

You can get so much information personalized to you from your laptop now.

I'm actually not against that when done correctly.

Again, this is a fine line.

I speak to all my therapists and at Human OS about this a lot because we love this topic and that line between when it is something that is good and positive, and when it lowers that barrier to entry, and when it makes something accessible that has for so long been inaccessible to many.

And then on the other hand, when actually is it quite dangerous?

And you know, there's a lot of in the media.

At the moment, of people losing their jobs because they've taken advice from AI about how they should speak to their manager, which I don't suggest anyone does, unless you really know how to prompt it really well.

Um, food to like much, you know, worse and and dangerous and heartbreaking.

And so it has to again be treated mindfully, know how to prompt it, know what to ask it.

But it can be really good for a few nutrition tips, movement tips, um, career tips, things like that, just yeah, within within reason.

So I think there's a lot you can do, and again, it doesn't mean you have to go and fill your whole fridge of organic fruit and veg, but actually just add in another colour to your plate.

Easy, cheap drinking water, easy cheap, breathwork, free, easy, always accessible.

Again, like yeah, so underrated, but so transformative to how we think and feel.

Mental.

Yeah.

I absolutely love it.

I've been to so many classes, yeah.

Obsessed with it.

It's great.

It's just, you know, these are it's free, it's there, it's oxygen, bring it.

100%.

Yeah.

It honestly, the marked difference of changes.

Yeah.

It's crazy.

Especially as we come into this period.

Yes.

Where the light is low and you're not, you know, you often you leave for work, it's dark, you and you walk out of your office, it's dark, and you don't have that ability, like putting that oxygen back in your body is transformative.

Yeah, 100%.

So, yeah, so there's a lot that's out there that's free and accessible.

It's just really asking yourself, what do I want?

And again, being realistic.

What is achievable to you?

Pick one or two things, make that a habit, and then once that's a habit, do something else.

So often we love intensity over consistency.

We want to go run that marathon, we want to lose X amount of weight, we want to get that promotion, that bonus, whatever it might be.

And we almost set ourselves up for failure because we try and do everything.

Instead of doing one or two things really, really well, make it habitual, move on.

Love what you said that small things in doses, get good at it, it move on to the next.

Yeah.

Yeah, brilliant.

Your business is amazing.

Obviously, you're growing hugely and you know, doing some very cool things different all around the world, which is just brilliant.

Talk to us a little bit about it and uh you know what what's next for you?

Yeah, so Human OS, we sit at the intersection of technology and human connection.

Okay.

So we have sort of two main goals really.

On one hand, we want to democratize coaching in the workplace.

We don't believe just the people at the top should get access to the best.

Um, when we started three years ago, we wanted to bring together personal trainers, nutritionists, and therapists to offer like an all-in-one bespoke solution to employees.

Now we have personal trainers, nutritionists, therapists, personal development, professional development, female health, men's health, breath work, sales, financial well-being, osteopaths.

Probably missing some.

Basically, if you need a coach, we probably have a coach for it at this point.

Um hand, they do the coaching, they do micro content, master classes.

Um, but we've also got a gamified tech platform that integrates with wearables.

So we're constantly collecting real-time data.

We also take self-reported data, we've gamified that experience.

So for a lot of well-being solutions in the workplace, we don't call ourselves a well-being solution, we call ourselves a sustainable high performance platform.

Um thank you so much.

Um flipping it around.

Yeah, exactly.

And it's not well-being, it it's so much more than that because we're really looking at development and performance.

Yeah.

Um, but for most solutions, their engagement is shockingly low, like two to four percent.

We currently sit at 72% because we've just gone over 70 for the first time.

Um and so we collect huge amounts of data.

And what we want to do, which is that leads into our second main mission at Human OS, is we want to take the guesswork out of employee well-being and performance.

And so, because we collect so much data, we anonymise all of that data and then we build it into monthly post reports for organizations so we can give them a snapshot basically of their mood, their energy, their sleep, their stress, and then work with them to build proactive well-being and performance strategies based on their people.

Yeah.

And then what's next is actually so that's sort of we have the human rights platform that does everything remote, but we're really big about experiences and community.

So now we're also looking at developing, we're sort of launching our first events over the coming next months around bringing together like-minded leaders, bringing together like-minded employees, and actually creating human OS experiences, keynotes, events, and partnering with probably all the gadgets and everything you have.

Um because we believe that people are really seeking this connection right now.

We want to be able to deliver that in a way that is impactful, but also holds them accountable.

And so through the platform, we can then hold them accountable outside of just those events instead of these amazing events and then this huge drop-off.

So we're working with our corporate companies to help build them workplace well-being, sort of events and experiences and things like that as well.

So, like once they're done, there's actually like the next steps for them instead of it just being like, Oh, I felt amazing at that event, and then they go back to their old ways, their old habits.

Yeah, that's really cool.

Yeah, I love that.

I think it's been amazing.

And honestly, I've loved chatting to you.

I think it's just been such a great podcast.

Um, and it's nice to like install something else because this does impact your money at the end of it, it impacts your life, your well-being, and like it's that's why we do this.

You know, there's no money gains podcast if your life sucks over here.

Like, um so we have to get that right.

Um, and I think you articulated it lovely.

Thanks.

So thank you very much for coming on.

Absolute pleasure, Sammy.

Thank you for having me.

And yeah, anytime.

Huge fan of your work, keep it up.

Thank you.

And we'll drop all of those links.

Where do you actually, I should ask, sorry, where do you want to send people?

Oh, good question.

So people can find me on LinkedIn, Bianca Rigo, if they want the more corporate um data driven side of my life.

They can find me on Instagram if they want to watch my crazy exercise antics as well.

Um, Bianca Rigo Coaching.

And then also humanous.co.uk is our website.

We could we'll chuck all of those in the show notes.

But um, thank you so much.

We'll catch you soon.

Thank you.