How Not To Suck At Divorce (00:00)

You're going to be okay. All right? You're going to be okay.

Morgan Stogsdill (00:03)

That's right.

Wanting to run out of your house, to be in your pantry doing, you know, shots of alcohol or whatever you need to do, take a breather.

wanting to get in your car and never come back. That is a crisis moment, not necessarily a divorce decision.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (00:18)

this is the time for you to just take care of your head and heart. Not every single moment has to feel wildly productive in order for you to be moving forward. You're moving forward. You know you're doing something tomorrow. Not right now.

Morgan Stogsdill (00:35)

Right.

Andrea Rappaport (00:37)

If you're going through a divorce or thinking about getting a divorce, this is the podcast for you. Hosted by Morgan Stogsdill, the head of family law at the largest family law firm in the country and comedian Andrea Rappaport, you're gonna laugh, you're gonna learn, you're gonna avoid major divorce mistakes. This is How Not to Suck at Divorce.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (00:59)

You know, Andrea, the biggest takeaway I hope that people get from listening to this podcast is that they make better decisions, but being proactive and not reactive.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (01:07)

Yeah, I know, but being proactive about your divorce can come with a lot of really big, uncomfortable feelings, especially when it pertains to your kids.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (01:18)

that's why I want you to consider using the co-parenting app to help with communication. Not just any co-parenting app, there are plenty out there, but not all are the gold standard. We want you to look at the most court-respected app, Our Family Wizard.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (01:30)

visit the landing page that we created together. There is a ton of useful information and when you're ready to make the next step, our family wizard is ready to support you.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (01:41)

visit ourfamilywizard.com backslash not suck 20 to save 20 % off your first year of the essentials package.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (01:50)

There's something about me that you don't know that I feel like it's very important to share at this point in our relationship.

Morgan Stogsdill (01:53)

you

I don't know if I should be scared, happy, indifferent, I mean all the feels right now. So go ahead, I'm ready.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (02:04)

You should be indifferent.

It doesn't really impact you very much, So I am secretly, like I am a master creative gift giver like, let me just, let me just spell it out. So I made the dumb decision of signing up to be a room mom this year

Morgan Stogsdill (02:10)

Okay.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (02:25)

I didn't really want to be a room mom. It's that one of my friends was also going to do it. And she was like, let's just do it together. So fine. Well, that bitch didn't get picked to be a room mom. So I got stuck with someone else who's totally nice. And if you listen to the show, which I don't think she is, I think her marriage is fine. I totally like you. You're great.

Morgan Stogsdill (02:34)

you

How Not To Suck At Divorce (02:43)

But now I got stuck with doing all this stuff that I don't want to do and I don't know how to do, with the exception of getting a holiday gift for the teacher. That is where I'm rolling up my sleeves. I just delivered it this morning. I went all out. they were like, we usually do gift cards. No, no, no, not this girl. I don't do gift cards. I don't like gift cards.

Morgan Stogsdill (02:55)

you

How Not To Suck At Divorce (03:08)

Gift cards are not personal. Gift cards are lazy. I am not a gift card girl. Don't ever give me a gift card. You will never get one from me unless it's part of something else. Okay. I put together the most amazing basket of gifts, Morgan. And getting these gifts together for this teacher actually brought me joy this week in a world where I had no joy.

Morgan Stogsdill (03:24)

you

There's a lot to download here. I mean, you've alienated everyone who's given a gift card, which one of the people who have this year is me. Whatever, cop out or not, you're welcome for the gift card. Go use your damn gift card and shut your mouth, okay? Fine, whatever. And that's what I gave. I gave some bullshit gifts. So good for you. You're winning, we're losing, and it's fine. But I'm...

How Not To Suck At Divorce (03:44)

Do better.

That's gift. That's a bullshit gift. Okay. You dead.

And thanks for listening

to this episode. Hope you all feel better about your life.

Morgan Stogsdill (04:05)

But I do have to say, you're right, there's something personal about gifts when you get something that somebody has actually put in a lot of time and effort. And you, my friend, I did know that about you because I have seen you put in the time and effort to give, whether it's a small gift, a big gift, just something personal, and it does mean a lot.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (04:25)

And I'll tell you one more thing.

I find it very healing.

Morgan Stogsdill (04:28)

I find that very time consuming and very ⁓ anxiety provoking. So if you're on my page, you can just send us a message, Team Morgan, today.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (04:31)

It is.

Okay, but listen, I'm so glad you said that because not only are you wrong, but no, no, no, no, listen, listen, listen. For people who are listening to this episode, who are pre-divorce and they are knee deep in holiday stuff and they are miserable, maybe what they need is a task. Maybe what they need

Morgan Stogsdill (04:46)

Hey, bring it.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (05:03)

is to take their mind and focus on something else because there is so much that is out of their control right now. And this whole episode is dedicated to number one, giving you validation. Like, yeah, you're in a tough spot. There is no way around it. And we talked about this in the last episode where I basically had a moment where I'm saying, you're not gonna have a great holiday season, okay? You gotta know that and it's okay.

But maybe, Morgan, it is helpful for people to get deep into something you feel like it could actually help?

Morgan Stogsdill (05:44)

Yes, I do actually. think that it depends on where you're at, but if you're in that tough space, there's a few things that bring you joy. Not many things probably do at this point when you're that stressed out, but giving gifts to others where you make somebody feel good that you actually put in the effort is definitely something. And the other thing that's great is it takes your mind off of what you're dealing with.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (06:08)

And guys, you're going crazy right now for a reason. Because this sucks. December sucks. December is hard. It can be great and it can make us feel so happy and so many feelings buzzes around us. But when we feel like we are drowning and dying inside, man, that feel good energy just doesn't, it's like,

It's like a salad dressing that's not mixing, right? Like the oil and the vinegar and all the sugars, it's all separated because you're like, my God, I'm not feeling very magical right now. but I hate everything. And then I feel guilty about the fact that I hate everything.

Morgan Stogsdill (06:54)

Mm-hmm. And I want to start by saying this clearly. If you are falling apart right now during this season, it doesn't necessarily mean your marriage is suddenly worse. Yes, I said it. It might mean that the pressure cooker is on. It's on high. It's on top of whatever you're carrying already and potentially that all this pressure finally tipped the scale. That could be what's happening here too.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (07:21)

you're giving me an idea for a Hallmark movie. It's like Christmas on in the pressure cooker. Where it starts off like you think it's like every other one. It's like a charming small town and it's a family who owns a Christmas tree farm.

But then you learn.

that the wife is miserable and wants out of her marriage and it starts to get very dark and weird and you're like waiting for it to like pick up and it just gets worse and worse.

Morgan Stogsdill (08:00)

Episode 2 Hanukkah in this

hellhole.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (08:03)

Hahahaha!

Morgan Stogsdill (08:05)

Anyway, we're making light of it, but we know what you're going through. We're making light of it so everyone can get a little bit of a laugh of what you're going through this season.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (08:13)

God, Hanukkah in this hell

hole.

Eight crazy nights and eight horrific years. You guys, I know. I just want you to know that I know. God, I went through this and it sucks trying to pretend. It sucks pretending that you're okay and that your marriage is okay and that your kids aren't absorbing all of the tension between the tinsel. But we're gonna help you through this, okay?

So here we go. Let's first, Morgan, why don't we help them establish what they might be feeling as if they don't already know. let's validate some feelings here.

Morgan Stogsdill (08:58)

So why does it feel even worse in this month around the holidays? I'm going to add a little bit of legal perspective here and what I see. So number one, holidays amplify decisions because expectations are high. So your expectations are higher than usual during this month. So decisions seem bigger than usual during this month. And I want to say to you legally,

unless something major is happening. You don't have to make big legal decisions this month. So if you're the person that's like, really think I want out of my marriage, I'm not quite sure, I just want to rip that bandaid off, you don't have to do it this month. A lot of people, December is hard for them because they feel trapped in routines and traditions and then add family dynamics to all of this mix and emotional cracks widen. mean,

Imagine the fact, I'm sure many of you are out there thinking, ⁓ my God, I've got to have my in-laws over and put on this face. I think Andrea posted a great meme on it. If you haven't seen it on Instagram, go there and check it out. it's hosting the family when you are not in the mood to host the family. You don't even like your spouse, let alone the family. So there's a lot of stuff going on. And then add on top of that, you might be stressed out besides thinking about your children if you have them.

You might be thinking, my gosh, so much money is flying out the door. Gift buying, maybe you're traveling, all my emotions on top of that. How am I gonna have the money in January or February if I truly want to get divorced to move forward? These are things that normal people are feeling out there during this month.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (10:34)

The other thing that's happening that I don't think we realize is all the nuance of like pressure in the month of December. Like you're getting emails every day, like the countdown is on. And it's just talking about like shopping, but you're still seeing those words, right? Or you're getting emails that are like, before the year ends, know, wrap this up. ⁓ Everything from like you making sure you get all of your... ⁓

doctor's appointments in before your benefits, you know, roll over and your deductible is, you know, moot, all that stuff. I think that we just naturally feel this sense of pressure in the month of December. And again, it's paired with that feeling of joy. Like we're supposed to feel happy, but we're not happy. And if anybody has recently attended a wedding,

or another like joyous event and you feel so sad and awful inside. It's like one of the loneliest feelings. know, it's like being at a party and you're like, I'm surrounded by people right now and I feel so alone. Well, that's normal. And what I want to help you do is let's take that moment for a minute, okay?

Morgan Stogsdill (11:44)

Right.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (11:55)

So you are surrounded by happy people and you're not happy. So what do you do? Well, I want to give you permission to take a break. Leave the moment. Leave the moment. I'm not saying run away and don't come back to the party, but there is nothing wrong with taking a break.

Morgan Stogsdill (12:16)

I'm gonna tell you a funny story and full transparency, I have a happy marriage. I mean, it's not perfect. I don't think anyone's is ever perfect, but there was one year very recently ago, I would say that I hosted Christmas Day with a big amount of family at my house. And it just became so overwhelming. The pressure was on to make it perfect. There was so much stuff going on that I actually went into my pantry and shut the door.

and I poured myself a shot of alcohol and ⁓ I took it in my pantry because I was like, I have to get through this. I have to make this great. And you know what else happened? Then the door opened, my husband found me. He came in, took a shot himself and then it was like a party in the pantry.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (13:02)

my god, that's another name of a movie, Party in the Pantry. ⁓

Morgan Stogsdill (13:06)

That's right. But I want to say one thing, and this is

one of the reasons we're doing this episode. There's a difference between a crisis moment and a clarity moment. Not everything is something that deserves a big decision. Like, my gosh, I'm feeling so much pressure, I just want to file for divorce today. So I want to say this clearly. Wanting to run out of your house, to be in your pantry doing, you know, shots of alcohol or whatever you need to do, take a breather.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (13:25)

you

Morgan Stogsdill (13:34)

wanting to get in your car and never come back. That is a crisis moment, not necessarily a divorce decision.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (13:42)

Okay. So I think we need to give this more attention. I'm gonna go in hard and fast. Here's your toolkit. Okay. Here is a breakdown of how you're gonna get through the rest of this month. Let's, let's look at things externally. Am I having a crisis or is this just another moment of clarity where it's like, yep.

Yep, this is a marriage that I don't want to be in right now. And that's just another sign. Whether it's as small as you ask your spouse to do something simple, like hand me the wrapping paper and they don't do it. And you're like, that's why I fucking hate you. Right? That's just a moment of clarity and you let it go. A crisis moment is when you feel like you're about to vomit and you can't breathe because it's bubbling up. In a crisis moment, you take a break, can't run away.

but you can take a break. Something else that we want to introduce to you is this idea of wait 24 hours. In December, just like I was mentioning about, you know, the emails that we're getting, like act now, two days left, you know, three days if you want this shipped in time to make it for Christmas. You don't have to do everything right now. And if you're having a day where things feel really horrible,

then maybe you do nothing. Maybe you have a day where you just couch rot if you can, or bed rot. Listen, kids

Morgan Stogsdill (15:14)

you

How Not To Suck At Divorce (15:15)

are gonna be home from school. What's wrong with letting the kids pile in bed with you and watching a show together? Probably nothing. Just give yourself some time, but I want you to give any major feeling 24 hours.

Morgan Stogsdill (15:21)

you

Right, and what I'm saying legally is that we don't want you making big decisions when you're in this crisis moment. We want you making big decisions when you're in your clarity moments, when you're feeling calmer, you're grounded, you're thinking about logistics without breaking down, you're thinking about what's best for you and potentially your family and your children, you're thinking or imagining the future without that panic. That's when the best decisions are made.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (16:03)

Give yourself a break. Give yourself a break. I'm trying to think of other things that I did when I needed to like to do nothing. ⁓ I don't like, we all, they all tell us that doom scrolling is like a really bad thing. But sometimes taking your phone and typing in like a funny search and just going down that rabbit hole. Like I, I, I'm a shopper. Shopping just really distracts me. It's fun for me.

So for me, if I open up my Amazon app and type in, ⁓ I don't know, something specific, something that slightly interests me, looking at things and seeing things like visually and like it gets my brain out of that feeling of I hate this right now. Here's something that we can apply that's very tangible. Let's go back to Morgan's pantry, okay? Let's call it the pantry escape plan.

Morgan Stogsdill (16:48)

you

Mm-hmm.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (17:03)

All right? Party in the pantry. Party in the pantry. You've got to leave. Not to be confused with potty in the pantry. We don't want you to do that. Don't use the bath. We use the bathroom for that. But if we're going to have a party in the pantry, set a timer on your phone. OK? You can't be gone forever. So if this is a little small crisis, you get three minutes. If it's a major crisis,

Morgan Stogsdill (17:05)

already in the pantry.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (17:32)

You get 10 minutes. If it's somewhere in between, then give yourself five to seven minutes. Set a timer. Put parameters on this. When you are in the pantry or your bathroom, you got to exhale. I want you to literally.

Push out all of the air in your lungs to the point where you don't think you have any air left. Do that because that's going to force you to inhale. So the first thing you do is literally, like a crazy person, push out every single ounce of air.

Morgan Stogsdill (18:10)

isn't that

what therapists say they say there should be 25 to 50 I call them yoga breaths when you're feeling that crisis coming on so you deep breathe in you hold it as long as you can and slowly out exactly like Andrea said getting rid of all that air they say 25 times which is probably less than three minutes in the pantry will calm you down enough to re-enter the party in a better place.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (18:37)

I also though want to say the reason why I'm telling everybody to exhale first is that from the panic attack Queen of Chicago, one of the hardest things to do when you're in that place is to breathe in. So I think it's easier if we tell everybody start with breathing out, because you're already, if you're already like, right, it's going to, it's hard to like take a big healthy breath. So I'm saying the first thing you do is push all of that air out, then start to breathe in.

And then I need you to have a mantra that you say to yourself out loud. And it could be something ridiculous. If you want to know what mine is, I will say, bitches ain't shit. Because it makes me laugh. My kids say it. I say it. That's my mantra. And I will breathe and I'll say, bitches ain't shit. Bitches ain't shit. Bitches ain't shit. And it helps me. ⁓

Morgan Stogsdill (19:19)

Okay.

Wow.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (19:36)

something that you can say. Why are you judging my mantra?

Morgan Stogsdill (19:40)

I guess I didn't see that coming and I don't quite... I'm wondering what bitches are we talking about here?

How Not To Suck At Divorce (19:43)

But they aren't shit.

Any

of them, all of them. Whether the bitch is the negative voice in our brain, it ain't shit. Whether the bitch is our soon to be ex-mother-in-law, she ain't shit. Whatever it is, whether it's our kid at the moment who's acting like a little bitch, guess what? You ain't shit. I'm bigger. I'm stronger. That's what I feel like that. And I know it's a popular phrase and it's from a very popular song.

But I mean, listen, bitches ain't shit and they can't say nothing. They can't. They can't. Bitches ain't shit. You are going to be okay. The pantry plan, the pantry party plan. Take yourself out of the moment. Force that air out so you can get more positive air in and say something to yourself.

Morgan Stogsdill (20:20)

Amen, amen.

That's true. And legally, whether you want to say Andrea's mantra and laugh or not, the problem is, and this is true, that December really forces these crisis moments. They're not always having them, but December, with all the pressure that's happening, forces these crisis moments. And when you're having these crisis moments, people a lot of times assume that they must file for divorce right now. And you don't.

From a divorce lawyer's perspective, you don't always have to file for divorce right then and there when you're having a crisis moment. And there's some reasons why you might not want to file during the holidays. mean, specifically, motions are super high. Children are off school. You have holiday plans with family or extended family. That complicates a lot.

Your best interest judgment may get clouded just because of all the other things taking up space in your brain. After the holidays, really much calmer position, more strategic for you to think about. I'm not saying again, if there's a major problem going on, I want you to speak to a lawyer and decide whether it's the best time. I'm just saying that if when you're so amped up and everything feels awful and you just want that bandaid to be ripped off, I want you just to take a step back.

and say, am I in a crisis moment? Do I need to file? I want to give you one story. We have a case right now where we need to make a settlement proposal. And what I've advised my client is, whoa, whoa, let's wait until after the holidays. And this client was like, well, I just want to get it off my plate. And I said, yes, but think about what's going to happen. No matter what proposal we send over, your X, your soon to be X, which we'll call Chad, because we always talk about Brenda and Chad here,

is going to be pissed. You don't want to deal with Chad's attitude because you did this. You can wait two weeks and then we can send it in the beginning of the year. That's what I'm talking about here.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (22:35)

I'll be totally honest. While you were talking, I kept thinking, God, I wish I could offer people a wand. I really wish that I could offer people something to make this pain and anxiety go away. And I hate that I can't.

Morgan Stogsdill (22:51)

we can offer them the pantry.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (22:53)

We can offer you the pantry and we can offer you preparation. So you can't, you're not gonna make a decision right now. And you know that you're not, you're not dumb. If you were gonna make a decision right now, you probably wouldn't even be listening to this episode because this episode is all about how to tread water in the healthiest way. So if you're listening to this, then you know that you're not ripping off a band-aid right now, but you're looking for some strategic support because you hate the way you feel and you're worried and you wanna know.

Am I going to be okay? You're going to be okay. All right? You're going to be okay.

Morgan Stogsdill (23:27)

That's right.

one of the things we can offer you too, and I joke that we can't offer you anything but the pantry, but we can. We've offered you action steps, which is you can step away. You can step away for a few minutes. You can do mantras. You can do your breathing. But one of the things that when you step away that I want you to ask yourself, which is a grounding question, which kind of brings you back to earth, is is this a crisis moment or is this a clarity moment?

because that's going to separate emotions from strategy. So more than likely, what you're feeling during this time is likely a crisis moment. And we went through all of those things, wanting to run away, having tears out of the blue, just feeling so stressed out that you kind of can't focus on anything. That's a crisis moment. And we want you clear before making big decisions.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (24:18)

I'm also going to advise you that, you on most episodes we talk about prepare for the future, make notes that you can send to your attorney and da-da-da-da-da. This is not the time for that. Because when your emotions are running high, that ain't the time, that ain't the time to make the list of things that you don't like about your marriage and why you want a divorce and what you want your attorney to know.

This is the time for you to be calm because you're not gonna write intelligent things and helpful things when you're in this state. So this is the time for you to just take care of your head and heart. Not every single moment has to feel wildly productive in order for you to be moving forward. You're moving forward. You know you're doing something tomorrow. Not right now.

Morgan Stogsdill (25:13)

Right.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (25:14)

And that doesn't make you

weak and that doesn't make you unprepared. And that doesn't make you ⁓ a potentially bad person who's gonna suck at getting divorced, right? We are giving you the permission right now for the rest of this month to do nothing but survive.

Morgan Stogsdill (25:33)

Mm-hmm. And I want you to know you're not failing the holidays. You're in it. You're doing it. You're just living through some stuff that is not ideal during this time. divorce is a marathon. It is not a sprint. And some days, especially these days, it's day by day and other days,

Probably more than not, it's hour by hour, minute by minute, but there will be better days.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (25:58)

And I have one last little tip. If you need something to watch on TV that's holiday-focused, but not like emotional because you're with your kids and if there's anything like a Christmas at the Christmas tree farm with the alpacas and the family who loves each other forever and ever in Jesus' name, amen, and you'll start sobbing, watch a holiday baking show.

I watched Nailed It last night with my son. Nailed It is so damn funny. Have you ever watched Nailed It, Morgan? I know we're derailing, but this is important. Nailed It is a show where amateur bakers attempt to make these very elaborate desserts, right? And they don't know what they're doing, and they have holiday versions of this. Morgan, on one side of the screen, it shows this elaborate cake, right?

Morgan Stogsdill (26:32)

No, I haven't.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (26:52)

And then the person has like a reveal board and then they say, nailed it. And then they whip out the board and you see this fucking disaster of a cake that they made. And it is so funny. And like last night, like I was watching it and like someone had a gingerbread man that looked like it's going through a divorce. And when they like lifted the thing up, the gingerbread fell over. And like, my God, it was so funny.

Morgan Stogsdill (27:15)

how everyone's feeling.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (27:20)

So I want you to have moments like that. Don't force yourself to watch the holiday shows that are gonna make you cry. If your kids still wanna watch it, like if it's a holiday tradition that they watch some movie that...

makes you want to cry every year, maybe that's when you also go take a break for a few minutes and then you come back and get it together. But whatever you do, you're going to get through this. We're here for you. Like Morgan just said, just even in the month of December is not a sprint. The month of December is a marathon. And guess what you get to do in the middle of a marathon? You get to take a break. You can drink some water. You can have a pantry party.

Morgan Stogsdill (27:44)

Mm-hmm.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (28:03)

Give yourself a minute. I know that you can do this. I know it feels like you can't do this, but you're actually doing it. And the fact that you clicked on this episode shows yourself that you are taking action steps towards surviving.

Morgan Stogsdill (28:19)

And you know where this episode came from? Our private community. If you're not in it, join it. It's a fabulous community where you can be anonymous, you can ask the questions you want to ask, you can get the community you need. It's free, it's private. Andrea and I monitor it and we answer a bunch of questions. And guess what? You will just feel part of something because at sometimes when you're going through this,

You're just feeling very alone and the private community will help you through that. If you need more, go to our website. We have the divorce crash course. We have other guides to get you through things. And lastly, but not least, please go online and rate and review us. It allows us to continue these fantastic episodes and bring on the guests that you want to hear from.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (29:04)

I promise you, you're going to be OK. I know your arms are tired from doggy paddling, but you're going to get to the other side of this ocean. I promise you, you have got this.

Morgan Stogsdill (29:16)

And we, my friends, have got you.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (29:19)

The How Not to Suck a Divorce podcast shall not be copied or rebroadcast without consent. This podcast does not contain legal advice. The information heard in this podcast is not and shall not be construed as legal advice.