Andrea Rappaport (00:00)

I'm going to get vulnerable with you guys. Something that I did during my divorce, and this is so embarrassing to admit, but I think this helped me a lot. I started daydreaming one day about what my life would look like if

Andrea Rappaport (00:15)

If you're going through a divorce or thinking about getting a divorce, this is the podcast for you. Hosted by Morgan Stogsdill, the head of family law at the largest family law firm in the country and comedian Andrea Rappaport, you're gonna laugh, you're gonna learn, you're gonna avoid major divorce mistakes. This is How Not to Suck at Divorce.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (00:37)

So, Andrea and I have had really long weeks the last few weeks. We had a lot of icky family things happening all at the same time. And so, it was so funny because I was in a total mood. I didn't even know she was in a bad mood either. But I told her I'd had all this family stuff going on and I thought I was going to be super mom. I made like this meal all day long, et cetera. I go to open up the meal and it is so disgusting and I'm usually a good cook. I don't know what happened to it.

As soon as I open up the meal and see how disgusting it is, the doorbell rings and there is Andrea. She did not come, but she sent it. She sent three pizzas and a salad just to make me feel better about my day. And it literally saved the day because what I had made was so bad that I threw it all out. Now on the flip side, after that, I was like, well, now I have to send her and want to send her something for her crappy week. I sent her Korean skincare because I said,

Andrea Rappaport (01:13)

you

Morgan L. Stogsdill (01:34)

Don't let all this crap you're going through age you because we can't afford another bad photo shoot.

Andrea Rappaport (01:39)

What's funny is that I thought you were going to say, then of course I had to write her a goddamn thank you card, which you know is the bane of my existence. Let me tell you about this skincare you sent me. So of course, like I squealed with delight when I opened the box, which I knew as soon as I saw the outside of the box, because it's the same amazing skincare, the masks that you brought.

with us to LA that we used before the night of the gala. So I opened it and I'm like, my God, this is going to help me so much. So I pop it on that night, but I forgot to warn Steve that I was wearing this mask.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (02:24)

Well, it's not just a mask, it's an overnight mask that you sleep with. So you look like a complete ghost with it on.

Andrea Rappaport (02:30)

So

I have this and I'm lying on the couch and I'm gonna act it out so you could describe to everybody what I'm doing. This is what I looked like.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (02:42)

Okay, she's like laying back in an awkward position with her head and her neck like in a weird long position and she looks like she may be a dead body.

Andrea Rappaport (02:52)

So I'm lying on my couch like this, my head cocked back, like very like weakened at Bernie's, right? And Steve walks in to the living room and he goes, He jumps back. Now mind you, we have been through hell this week, so we are both very easily scared. So he jumps back and he goes, what the, what is that? What, it's on your face. my God, what is that Michael Myers thing you're wearing?

Morgan L. Stogsdill (02:59)

Yes.

Andrea Rappaport (03:23)

And I said, Morgan scented, it's to help me look better. And he goes, well, it's not working. But I have to say, I woke up the next day feeling so much better. That meant, I mean, we got to partner with those people because...

Morgan L. Stogsdill (03:41)

Do you

want to know what is in that mask just for all of our listeners? Salmon sperm. I read it I was like, this is disgusting, but I will try it. And I am a complete salmon sperm lover, apparently.

Andrea Rappaport (03:44)

Yeah, salmon, salmon sperm.

hell.

Okay,

I have so much skincare right now that is loaded with salmon sperm. I mean, I'm going to start my own salmon sperm clinic. I might become a sex worker for salmon in my free time just to collect all the sperm and bathe myself in it.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (04:11)

Salmon sperm,

can you say that fast? Salmon sperm sex worker, that's you.

Andrea Rappaport (04:16)

Salmon.

So listen, to everyone who's listening to this episode, feeling like they're going nowhere in their life right now because of their divorce, look, you could always be a salmon sperm sex worker. Hope is not lost. listen, if you feel like, in all seriousness, if like you, I can't even talk. do we, how do we pivot from salmon sperm? You're about to find out. If you feel.

like somebody hit the pause button on your life, then this episode of How Not to Suck at Divorce is for you.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (04:54)

Yeah, this past week, we actually took a poll in our private community. And if you're not in our private community on Facebook, get in there. It's awesome. You don't have to be out with your name. You can be totally confidential. And you're actually going to meet people going through the same things. shout out to all the members of the How Not to Suck a Divorce community on Facebook, because what we did is we asked them to vote on what kind of topic they want to hear next from us. Because we want to be bringing relevant topics to you that you're dealing with on a day-to-day basis.

And shockingly, I didn't really see this coming. I thought more like parenting agreement, finances. No. The topic that people wanted to hear about was not feeling like you're living in limbo during your divorce. And that's an overwhelming winner. So here we go.

Andrea Rappaport (05:39)

So overall, that feeling is frustrating, right? It feels like sitting and waiting. And I was thinking about it and I realized like, yeah, because not only do people feel like in the long term, in the big picture, there's so many things you can't do until you're divorced, but also the process itself is a lot of hurry up and wait. You you got to get all this stuff out there, like your discovery, and then you just sit and wait.

You wait for your email to come back from the attorney. You wait for an email from your soon-to-be ex to respond to something. You're waiting for a court date. You're waiting to wake up and magically feel better one day. The problem is that if we all just keep focusing on the waiting and all the things that can't happen until the divorce is finalized, then we've given all of our energy and all of our power to something that we can't control. And that's...

is a recipe for resentment and unhappiness.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (06:41)

have a lot of comments about what you just said, but first and foremost, I'm kind of scared of you Mel Robbins. I don't know what happened to my podcast co-host, but let's bring her back.

Andrea Rappaport (06:43)

Hmm.

Mel Robbins wishes that she had my level of wisdom right now. I bet Mel Robbins is listening to this episode and she's taking notes on what to say to her own people. Or maybe she's laughing at us. Or maybe she's not listening at all because she's Mel fucking Robbins and we're not. But anyway, the point here is that in this conversation, we're gonna map out for you some things that you can control and some things that you can do while you're in your divorce process.

And then we're gonna talk about what you do with those feelings attached to all the shit that you have to wait on.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (07:24)

Yep, agreed. All right, I want to start here. So I want you to know this, and this is hard to wrap your brain around because if you are in the divorce process, you do feel like you're just stuck, like you can't do anything. But I want you to know that you're not just treading water anymore. Even though it feels like it's taking forever, you are in the process of change currently. And what I will tell you as a divorce lawyer for a long, long time, I see my clients go through this process of change and

they're starting to heal during the divorce process. You're probably not seeing it yourself, but I do because when I have someone who's very emotional coming in, after a while they start to heal and start to come out of it. So what I want you to know is you were treading water back when you couldn't rip the bandaid off on your marriage. You were treading water when you had not ripped that bandaid off and started the divorce process. So.

What we want to know and what we want to talk about now is here you are now, everything hurts and everything sucks so much, but you're still moving towards that finish line where you actually, and you're actually starting to heal. And then once that finish line happens, you really start that healing process much faster.

Andrea Rappaport (08:37)

want to address the word healing for a second because I don't like it. I hate it. I hate the word healing. I hate it almost as much as that stupid phrase, holding space. That annoys me too.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (08:50)

yeah.

I agree. I mean, I don't really like the word healing. You know, I'm not into woo crap, ⁓ but it is truly what's happening. You're kind of on this continuum, on this spectrum of, you know, the different stages of going through almost like grief. And so you can call it whatever you want to call it, but who you are at the beginning of the divorce process is not who you're...

Andrea Rappaport (08:56)

Mm-mm.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (09:15)

going to be at the end of the divorce process. And even when the divorce is over, you're still going to be changing. So that's what I want you to know. And so much for the Mel Robbins vibe. I don't think she wears salmon sperm masks. So that I feel like she's out.

Andrea Rappaport (09:26)

Probably.

No, she definitely doesn't wear salmon sperm masks. And she does use these phrases like, you know, holding space and let's heal. And I think that's what drives me fucking crazy about especially like holding space.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (09:39)

What does that even mean? What's that mean?

Andrea Rappaport (09:43)

I don't know, like you're giving yourself room to be safe. I don't know. First of all, the space part, like what is, what are we talking, like it just feels so, I know it's not meant to sound passive, but it feels so like be one with your pain. Hold on, hold on, hold on to it in space. Go to Jupiter, ride a rocket, give it space. And it's just like, shut the fuck up. Nobody like shut up.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (10:01)

Pain can be helpful. Ride a rocket. Get on the spaceship.

Andrea Rappaport (10:11)

I don't want to hold space because here's the thing. Nobody wants to feel the pain. We don't want to feel the pain. The pain sucks. I don't want to hold space for the pain. I want to get over this and we all know that we can't, but you know on this podcast, we're not going to talk to you in the bullshit woo woo terms because those make us both gag. So I'm going to give it to you real. A lot of times people say, and you just mentioned it before Morgan, and we've had people on our show.

by the way, who have talked about this, you can't heal until the divorce is over. And I don't know that I fully agree. And I don't love that we talk about that because I feel like that is so negative. And that thought keeps people in that space of, then I'm in limbo, then I'm just fucking hanging out here in purgatory until my divorce is over.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (11:00)

Yeah, think it's a bunch of bullshit. I'm just going to call a spade a spade because I see it. And the hard part when you're in it and when you're going through it, you don't give yourself the pat on the back. Like, wow, when I started with my lawyer, I couldn't even answer a question. I couldn't make a good decision. And now look at me. It's like when I talk to my lawyer, I'm like, yeah, bam, boom, like here we are. Make those decisions. I feel comfortable in those decisions. That's you growing and getting stronger through the process.

but you're probably not seeing it yourself. We are as lawyers because you turn into a different client, but when you're in it, you're not giving yourself the grace or the pat on the back that you deserve. And the reality is if you step back and you say to yourself, hey, what kind of person was I when I started this process? And maybe I'm a few months in, what's changed?

because I guarantee you can find something that's changed and you should be patting yourself on the back because you're not in limbo. You are on the train that has already left the station in a good way. You're going in the right direction.

Andrea Rappaport (12:03)

But going back to what we talked about before, because there is a lot of sitting and waiting. And I think that, again, if we keep focusing on the things that are, that's not happening, and we're not focusing on what is happening, that's what keeps us feeling stuck and in limbo. I believe that we do get smarter and stronger during this process. I know that I did. You just said you see it all the time. It's tiny little steps.

And I was thinking about this when I was putting together the outline for this conversation. And what I came up with is this, these tiny little steps, those little markers are what helps us heal even if we don't notice it. So here's a metaphor for you all. Your kid falls and scrapes their knee. So what do you do? You clean it, you put Neosporin on it, maybe a Band-Aid if it's bleeding, and then you leave it alone.

You don't stare at it every single minute. You're not watching it heal. It just heals because of all those steps that you took to help the healing process. Okay? Now, what if you did nothing? If you put nothing on the scrape, the kid falls and you're dumb ass, you shouldn't have ridden a bike in the first place. Sit on the couch and watch TV like a normal kid, right? And you don't put anything on the scrape. Is it gonna heal? Yeah, but it's probably gonna take longer. So...

Let's relate it to what we're talking about. In our case, the tools, the Neosporin, the Band-Aid, the cleaning, all of that stuff. You can compare that to tools that you have available for you in your divorce. Listening to this podcast is a tool. Your therapist, utilizing your attorney in the smartest way is a tool. Using our family wizard can be a tool. Changing the way that you communicate with your soon to be ex, if that's not working.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (13:43)

Mm-hmm.

Andrea Rappaport (13:58)

getting a community for yourself and your kids. All of these things that you have available for you, these are tools that will help your scrape heal faster. You can't just stare at it though and wait for it to heal.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (14:12)

I have something legally I want to say, before I do, I feel like Andrea has turned into a therapist overnight. I'm kind of liking it. She's also got a very low key voice today. It's kind of like a mix between Mel Robbins and maybe Delilah. Do you remember Delilah? She would do like the late nights. Yep. But what I want to say is there's a lot of people, I want to talk about the reality of where people feel stuck. They feel stuck because they feel like they can't move on. And where does that happen? They feel stuck because maybe they can't get a new place to live.

Andrea Rappaport (14:25)

Have I loved

Morgan L. Stogsdill (14:42)

They can't move out of their place currently. Maybe they don't have an agreement for the children. They feel like they can't go out and date, or if they do, there's all these strings attached. They feel like they can't invest their money the way that maybe they want to invest. Those are the places that they feel in limbo, but we're kind of really talking about the emotional part of limbo. And we want you to know today that you are moving forward, and that's what matters here today.

Andrea Rappaport (15:12)

Getting into the logistics though, and yeah, I have changed the way that I speak. Get ready. And that's because someone on Spotify said that they loved you and everything that you had to offer, but the quote unquote host is so annoying with the way she talks. Yeah. So you know what? Fuck you, sir. Now I have seasonal allergies and I sound like Delilah. So I hope you enjoy that.

and your salmon sperm. Okay. Let's talk about actual things that people in our private community are struggling with because a lot of them commented and said, these are things that are keeping me feeling like I'm in limbo. So one person wrote, and this is literally what you just mentioned, how do you approach dating or even imagining future relationships while you're still technically married but emotionally separated and

This person said, I have two kids with 50-50 custody. And I believe this was a man who ⁓ commented here.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (16:16)

Okay.

So I want to tell you, good sir, good sir, we're going to call you Chad because we always talk about Chad and Brenda. So Chad, here's what I'm going to tell you there. I want you to imagine a new relationship as great as you can imagine it, meaning you deserve a fabulous new relationship and any new relationship that you find when the time is right will fit in with your custody schedule.

Andrea Rappaport (16:21)

Could, sir, Mr. Stem and Sperm?

Morgan L. Stogsdill (16:44)

and your children. It just will because when the timing's right, it will work out. What you have to remember is you have to communicate with your lawyer about dating. And this is one place where I feel like a lot of clients are afraid to talk to their lawyer about it, which is so ridiculous because your lawyer is there to manage your risk in your case and tell you if there are any risks. So for instance, where I practice,

If you are the receiver or going to be the receiver of maintenance or alimony, you have to be very careful about dating because if you're in a continuous cohabiting relationship, which really does not mean what it sounds like in where I practice, it can be really detrimental. You could lose your maintenance or alimony. On the flip side, it's not very fair because on the flip side, let's just say that Chad is the one paying potentially maintenance. Chad can go out and date anyone he wants.

and have no problem and find this relationship. But the only thing I would caution you about is, and we've talked about this in episodes beforehand, which is be careful when you're dating if your ⁓ parenting agreement is not finalized because you don't wanna be taking time away from your children going out dating. Okay, let's put that all to the side, because I've kind of said all of those things. What I just want you to be careful about when you're approaching dating.

when you're first on the scene, right? This is something that I talk to my clients about all the time when they wanna talk about it, because some people are afraid to go get back in. Let's just say that you are Chad, you're the payor, you don't have to worry about not receiving maintenance, and you can go out and date people. What I always say is, take it slow. Number one, take it slow. What you're looking for is someone you can laugh with, someone that you enjoy going out to dinner with and talking about normal things.

What I don't want to have happen is that you go out and you find this person who maybe is already going through a divorce themselves and all you talk about, you have one thing in common and it's your divorce because that only lasts so long. The second thing I want you to be careful about is, remember how we said the trains left the station and even though we hate talking about it, you are in the healing process. You are in the healing process. You are not the person that you're going to be in the next few years. You have to be careful about that when you're starting to date again.

Sometimes what I see with clients is the first person that they start dating after their divorce or during the process is the person they kind of grab onto, whether it's right or wrong, because it's fast, they need someone, they feel bad, and that kind of helps it, even though it might not be the person for long-term. So I just want you to take it slow. And I'm sure I can see Andrea's face. If you can't see her, her eyes are huge. She has a lot to say to this.

Andrea Rappaport (19:30)

huh. What if somebody just wants to have sex?

Morgan L. Stogsdill (19:36)

You know, that's a good question. I don't have any problems with that as long as it's not interfering with the children taking time away from them. ⁓ Clearly we don't want them getting STDs. That would be a negative, right? ⁓ And the third thing is, is we want you to be careful about the dating relationship if you're on the receiving end of maintenance. You have to be kind of quiet about it. but I don't have any problems with that.

Andrea Rappaport (19:58)

So like.

And what I mean is like, and I don't just mean like they just wanna have sex. I mean, some people do. But like, okay, you said you need someone to go out and laugh with.

If you're going out and dating and trying to feel like you're living again, not on your parenting days, what's wrong with that? And how is going on dates with people and even entering into like a new relationship? Because let's face it, unless your divorce is going on for five plus years,

then how are you even gonna be in a serious relationship to the point where anybody can prove this person is paying for Brenda or Chad's life? Like what's the harm?

Morgan L. Stogsdill (20:46)

Yeah.

the only harm, okay, and it's not really, this is why I want you to talk to your lawyer. I want my clients to know what the potential risks are and then make their own decision. So I'm not here to tell them like, don't go out on dates, don't go out and have sex. Like that is not my job. My job is to say, these are the things that could happen if you start doing what you want to do or what you're telling me you want to do. And then you make the call. So one of the things that I see a lot,

Andrea Rappaport (20:59)

Mm-hmm.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (21:16)

⁓ and you just have to be prepared for it. Let's just say we're going to take the divorce case to mediation, right? We're going to negotiate in mediation. And right now it's okay. It's amicable. I mean, ish. It's not horrible, but it's not the best. If word comes sometimes about, yes, you're out there, suddenly we've got a whole different person on the other side and maybe they're less agreeable, less generous, more difficult.

Andrea Rappaport (21:33)

that you're out there. Yeah.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (21:46)

Those are things that could happen. Now at the flip side, you're like, well, hey, MF'er, we're getting divorced. What did you expect? Of course I'm going to move on. It's not going to be like I'm going to be sobbing over you for my whole life. So I get that. But as long as you know the risk and you're like, yeah, I don't really care, fine.

Andrea Rappaport (22:03)

Well, and what do you have at stake, right? I think with anything, be smart. Do you have high stakes? If you have really high stakes and there's some big shit on the line, let's say you're going through a custody evaluation, right? Something where it's really high or there's a lot of money. Well, then don't be a dummy. Don't make decisions that could jeopardize what's most important. ⁓ I feel like that question is twofold as far as how do you even approach it or imagine a future relationship and then how do you technically date?

We're going to address the how do you imagine it in just a minute because I have a thought there when we get to another question, but let's pin that for now because I want to move on to another question. ⁓ Morgan, why don't you read what another person wrote in our community?

Morgan L. Stogsdill (22:46)

Yep. And I'm going to ask you to tackle it because I'm not quite sure I know what they're asking here. So here is the question. Uh-huh. Yep. Yep. You're going to play lawyer for a minute. ⁓ The question is from our private community, how do you operate under a continuance or status quo order? Andrea, you have any idea what they're asking about there?

Andrea Rappaport (22:50)

but I am? Okay.

Okay.

Well, yes, thank you so much for throwing that question my way. ⁓ You know, that kind of reminds me of a continuance I once had in 1989. Doesn't that mean, of course, I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, does that mean that you've received an order that everything must remain the same until further determination? I don't even understand.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (23:34)

So a status quo order generally is yes, whatever you've been doing in the past, you continue doing. And that could be anything from parenting to finances. Usually they're not that blanketed. They're more specific. It's like, hey, if you guys have been operating out of a joint account and paying all the bills from there, you're going to continue to do that until we figure out next steps. A continuance order is usually just in the next, we'll see your case in the next month and figure out where you're at.

So that's the one thing. I wonder if I'm just thinking this through. I wonder if the question really is, if they have a status quo order, this is how you're going to pay your bills, or this is how things are going to get done. How do you move forward from that or change it? What I would say to you is, if you want to change that order, there are always ways to petition the court to change that order. I would not...

ever violate a court order without speaking to your lawyer, having a plan, knowing what that looks like, et cetera. Violating court orders are not a good idea, but there are ways to change the court order if something changes because maybe what this person is saying is, look, this order has been out there for a very long time. We're not close to a divorce and I feel like I'm just stuck. And if that's the case, then certainly if there's been a change, definitely petition the court.

Andrea Rappaport (24:53)

Yeah, that's exactly, that's what I was gonna say. ⁓ Yeah, I'm glad that you put that into words. ⁓ We actually had a few comments and questions that have a similar topic and it has to do with living together. So I wanna get into those. One person asked specifically, how do you stay sane?

Morgan L. Stogsdill (24:57)

Of course.

Andrea Rappaport (25:17)

Living under the same home with no end in sight, it feels like my soon-to-be ex is very comfortable living like this.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (25:26)

That's the worst. It's the worst because one person has all the leverage because they love it, right? They're having their cake and eating it too. They're in the house. They're up in the other one's space and the other one's probably like, get out of here. We're moving on. What we usually do in those cases and what you should be doing with your lawyer is pushing your lawyer either to court, which is always plan B for me.

to ask that either one person has to move out or there's a temporary parenting agreement so that one person can move out. Or the other thing that we usually do in these situations where they're really feeling icky because they're both in the house together, we try to get it to mediation to at least put a temporary band-aid on the case. There's a few ways we can do that. There's a few, I would say probably three good ways. First way is to work out some agreement where you have a parenting plan or temporary, whether it's final or not.

You can do something temporary where someone can move out. That would be like the best thing. Again, if you've got somebody, let's just say Brenda, who's refusing to move out of the house, loves being up in Chad's space, that might be a little difficult to get. The second option is we could work out a temporary agreement on basically who's on parenting for the day. We do this a lot. So Tuesday night is Chad's night. Brenda, go get lost.

Brenda, you're not going to be in Chad's space or around the kids. You're not going to be like, hey kids, let me make you a peanut butter and jelly. No, Brenda, you're out. Go find your girlfriends, go to the gym, go get scarce, come back at nine when the kids are in bed and go to sleep. We can work out deals like that. And the third one is kind of like a band-aid of all band-aids, which is how to behave in the house when you're jointly living together. And that would be probably the less ideal or least ideal option.

Andrea Rappaport (27:09)

The reason why we're giving you guys this guidance is because the person in our community said, with no end in sight. So obviously, for a lot of people, for almost everybody, you're going to go through a period of time where you just have to navigate living in the house with your ex. And we actually did an entire episode.

on what do you do mentally and emotionally to keep yourself sane. So go find that episode. think it's something, if you search living with your ex, it should pop up. But one thing that you said that I think will be very unnatural for people is, mom, dad, get lost. It's not your parenting night tonight. You're not in charge of the kids. Like, yuck. ⁓ That is the reality on paper.

And here's something where it's not living in limbo. It's actually pushing you off the cliff into an area that doesn't feel comfortable. I think, think, think, think, think, think that this is something where I think we as humans, like we want to say like, ⁓ nothing is happening. I'm so like, I'm just treading water. This is so stagnant. Nothing is changing.

There's actually so much changing you guys. There's a lot changing. It's just not change that we like. And I think we need to discern between the two. I wanna have one more question about living together, because I wanna make sure this one gets answered. So somebody else said, what if you're stuck living together for some time and you're trying to make it very cordial for the teens that live in the house? Are you making it weird or harder for them?

Morgan L. Stogsdill (28:35)

Right.

Andrea Rappaport (28:54)

Are they confused thinking you guys are so cordial and you can tolerate living together? Why are you even getting a divorce? Does being cordial to each other slow down our teens acceptance of the divorce?

Morgan L. Stogsdill (29:08)

That's a really good question. think that from what I've seen through my 18 plus years of practicing coming up on 19, I think that the more cordial you are, the better for your children. If you're stuck together, I want you being cordial. Obviously, I think that the gold standard is to make a choice and be able to execute as fast as possible.

with the knowledge and with the discussions with a teen child. A teen is way different than small little kids. And Andrea, you and I have put together some discussion points on our website of things that how to talk to a child depending on what age they are and how to get like a joint discussion point with the kids. But to answer your question, does it slow their acceptance? I don't think so. I think that teens are a lot smarter than you give them credit for. And

you don't want to be anything less than cordial in the house. I I think you're not giving your ex kisses and telling them you love them and doing all that stuff, but cordial does not hurt anything. And then the moment that you can go and set up that new life or set up another place to live, you do that. My point is don't drag it out for longer than it needs to be dragged out unless you're stuck. If you're stuck there because of the court process, because of the divorce process, I totally get it. But if you're stuck there just because

Andrea Rappaport (30:06)

Thank

Morgan L. Stogsdill (30:30)

you're treading water because maybe you're feeling like the kids don't want change, that's kind of where it definitely potentially slows acceptance.

Andrea Rappaport (30:40)

It might actually help them in the long run though, watching you be cordial. mean, God, that's a great problem to have. mean, Jesus, having your kids watch you be courteous and respectful to their mother or father, great problem. You're teaching them how to, and you're teaching them how to handle conflict in the future.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (30:46)

Totally.

And one thing I want to

Yes, you are. That is that you're modeling how to get through a really tough time with your soon to be ex in front of them. I mean, that is such a beautiful thing. And I wish people could do that in every case. And if you're one of the people that are like, who is this couple that can be cordial? I can't. You're not alone. We are not judging you. That is super standard. We just want you to do the best you can. One thing I wanted to say, because I know that there's so many questions from our private community.

One of the questions that we also got is about trying to set up a new home, buy a new home. You're in the middle of a divorce. I want to get out. We have money to do it. Can I buy a house? That's something again to talk to your lawyer about. I will tell you in the last few years, I have purchased with a client many houses in the middle of a divorce. So you're not stuck in limbo. There's a way to do it.

There's obviously risks with every decision you make in every divorce case, but there's a way to do it. So you know, you're not 100 % stuck where you're like, I have money and I just can't buy a house and I can't move out. There are ways to do it. So I don't want you to feel like I can never do this in a divorce process. That's just not the case.

Andrea Rappaport (32:10)

Okay, I wanna help people feel like they're not in limbo. So as we wrap up this episode, I wanna really quickly play a game, because we love games. Remember games? Why? No, don't worry, it's not spin the wheel. We're not bringing back season two. That was a dark time for us. No salmon sperm. Okay, we're gonna play a game called I Give You Permission. So Morgan, I want you to give quickly.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (32:18)

⁓ yes.

Andrea Rappaport (32:33)

two things that you're gonna give people permission to do while they're still in the divorce process and don't make your things lame. Like it can't be, I give you permission to have hope or I give you permission to hold space or buy a candle that says sad.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (32:48)

candle that sets it. Okay. I'm going to go quickly. I think I have three things. One, I want to give you permission to pat yourself on the back and tell yourself you're doing a good job. If you woke up and you're making decisions in your divorce case and you've actually ripped that band-aid off, you are doing a good job. So say

Andrea Rappaport (33:03)

That's so

lame. That's such a lame.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (33:07)

You know what, Andrea, I'm going to take back all my salmon sperm. All right, number two, I want to give you permission to go out and do something that's out of your comfort zone. I want you to think about doing something that you've never done before, whether it be taking a class, going to learn how to play some kind of new sport. And you might be saying, I don't have any time. I have kids. I have a divorce. No, you do.

Andrea Rappaport (33:09)

That's the way.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (33:29)

Find something that's out of your comfort zone that takes your mind off of the divorce and go and do it, even if it's an hour per week or even if it's online. Do it, because that will take your mind off of what you're dealing with. Third thing I wanna give you permission for. I wanna give you permission, and this might be lame, but I think it's so important. I wanna give you permission to give back to somebody else. I wanna give you permission to go and volunteer.

do something with a charity. And the reason I say that is because what you're going through right now absolutely sucks. But the best thing that you can have is a little bit of perspective when you're going through really hard stuff about what other people are going through. So what I mean by that is if you go and volunteer to hospital, there are people there dying that don't have the decision to live or die. That is huge perspective. You have the decision to stay or go.

and that is enough to go through. But when you get a little bit of perspective about what other people are going through and you give back, man, does it help you through the process that you're going through. So those are my three permissions.

Andrea Rappaport (34:34)

Mm-hmm. I enjoy the permission of trying something new. I like that one. I know the other one. I remember when Randy Heller talked to us about giving back to other people. And I do think that that's very admirable. I don't see myself doing it because I think just openly, think I'm not. I never think about helping.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (34:59)

You want people to give back

to you.

Andrea Rappaport (35:03)

Did I just say that out loud? I don't really care that much about other people. No, I mean, I do. But, ⁓ you know, volunteering for the dying is probably not up high on my list of things that'll make me feel better, but I know that it probably will. Like, I'm the girl that runs out of the room when the ASPCA sad dog commercial comes on, or I've convinced myself that all those dogs are actors and they're just fine because...

How do they get the dogs to pose like that? Like, ⁓ I'm so, I haven't eaten in a week. Yeah, you have. Okay. Here are my permissions. Now that everyone knows who the asshole.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (35:33)

No.

After you let in with that, I'm very scared about your permissions.

Andrea Rappaport (35:44)

Yeah,

you should be. Okay, speaking of lame, this first permission is so lame, but I think it's actually a really good idea. I give you permission to make a modern day vision board for what you want. Now, I'm not saying go find magazines and cut shit up and tape it and look like a serial killer, like I know where you live thing. Nobody has time for that. Here's my idea. I want you to open up Canva.

It's free for everyone unless you buy the pro account, right? It can be free. In Canva, there are all of these tools for like, you can search for images. Obviously, you can type words. You can do whatever. I want you to have a document where you post pictures and write about all the shit that you want in the next year and the next five years. Put it in this. Do you want to take a great trip? Do you want to have a...

a steamy love affair with somebody who doesn't speak English. Do you want to cover your face in salmon sperm nightly? Do you want to lose 20 pounds? Do you want to have a promotion? What are the things that you want and put it out there? Get brave and talk about what you really want. Okay, my other permission, and I feel like I'm playing beat the clock because I have therapy in seven minutes, not here. So I'm going to...

I mean,

I'm going to get vulnerable with you guys. Something that I did during my divorce, and this is so embarrassing to admit, but I think this helped me a lot. I started daydreaming one day about what my life would look like if

I had married my... He wasn't my first boyfriend, but he was like my second boyfriend. And I really liked him. If he's listening to this episode right now, I'm just going to vomit all over myself.

But I ⁓ really liked him. I think I was in love with him and clearly did not marry him. But I imagined, like I did a deep dive one day. I remember where I was driving in the car and I thought about what life would have been like if I made a different decision and if it would have worked. And I realized how happy that made me and how giddy I got at the idea of being in a relationship with someone whom you had such great

memories with. I even, I that one moment in time driving on the highway, I

gave me that hope that like, Andrea, you're not dead inside. Like, you're gonna, you're gonna get to that place. If you could daydream about someone else, and it feels wrong to do that, this man is happily married to somebody else. And for just so everyone knows, I don't actually want to marry this person.

But in that moment, I had to think back to a time when I had those warm feelings inside of my body and I felt safe.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (38:47)

You know what, it brings me back and I know that we have about two minutes before your therapy, but it brings me back to one of the things that I wanted to give permission for and I kind of just slipped my mind, but it really kind of wraps everything that you're saying into a nice bow, basically. What I'm saying is I'm giving you permission to reinvent yourself and that might be doing the mood board. It might be daydreaming about your ex, reinventing yourself. It's like when you go to high school.

Andrea Rappaport (39:07)

Mm-hmm.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (39:15)

Who do you wanna be? You wanna be somebody new, then you go to college. You're somebody new. You are coming out of a divorce. Be whoever you wanna be. You are not that person in that last marriage. So who are you? And daydream about that. And I think the mood board's interesting. I mean, maybe you wanna dye your hair or lose 20 pounds or just be somebody different. And that is great. That's fantastic. So, all right, we're gonna wrap this. If you're not part of our private community, join it.

There's so many helpful tidbits on there. Get yourself a copy of the DCC that we have on our website and all of our helpful guides. We are here for you. We do the show for you. And anything you want to hear about, we take into consideration. If you need lawyer ⁓ options, wherever you are, we don't care if it's in the US, in Canada. Apparently we have a lot of listeners in London and Cape Town. We will get you lawyers. Just email us. We will respond to every email.

Andrea Rappaport (40:12)

Remember the analogy or the metaphor about the scrape. You are healing. I hate that word, but you are healing. You are getting better. You just don't want to sit there and watch it. Little tiny things are happening every day that are moving you closer to the finish line. And while you feel like you're just sitting and doing nothing, number one, run things by your attorney. Maybe there is more that you can do. Maybe there are things that you think you can't do that you really can. And if there are things that you can't, you have to just say, okay.

Right now, I can't. I can daydream, though, about what life could be like. See that as a gift. What do you really want? You can make as many vision boards and mood boards as your heart wants. And maybe they could be for your kids, too. If your kids are really suffering right now, what do you want their life to look like? Everything that's a negative can be flipped.

and looked at as something positive. And I know you guys are about to like punch me in the face right now, because I sound so Mel Robbins, Brene Brown, and it's not meant to sound empty in that way. Believe me, I went through this. I know how horrible and awful it is. But guess what? You don't have a choice in what you're in, but you have a choice in how you look at it. So you can either look at it as I'm fucking stuck, I'm in limbo, nothing is happening, or you can look at it as I get this time.

I get this time to figure things out, to take it slow, to take a breath and make sure that my next chapter is truly the healthiest and happiest chapter possible.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (41:49)

Divorce is a marathon. It is not a sprint. Andrea and I talk about this all the time. Not every day is going to be a good day. Sometimes it's day by day, other times it's hour by hour. And guess what? That is okay because we are here for you. Whatever you need, get in contact with us. If you will, please leave us a review. It helps us get great guests on and continue this podcast.

Andrea Rappaport (42:10)

remember friends, on the days when you think you can't do it, guess what? You are doing it. Because you've got this.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (42:16)

And we, my friends, have got you.

How Not to Suck at Divorce (42:19)

The How Not to Suck a Divorce podcast cannot be copied or rebroadcast without consent. This podcast does not contain legal advice. The information contained herein and provided on the podcast and the resources available are not intended and shall not be construed as legal