How Not To Suck At Divorce (00:00)

Emotions don't help us think and strategize.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (00:04)

In law, in the divorce realm, facts win. They just do. Stories spiral and they spiral you.

So on this episode of How Not to Suck a Divorce, we're going to give you some insight in being master negotiators.

Andrea Rappaport (00:19)

If you're going through a divorce or thinking about getting a divorce, this is the podcast for you. Hosted by Morgan Stogsdill, the head of family law at the largest family law firm in the country and comedian Andrea Rappaport, you're gonna laugh, you're gonna learn, you're gonna avoid major divorce mistakes. This is How Not to Suck at Divorce.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (00:41)

The biggest takeaway I hope you get from listening to this podcast is that you'll always make better decisions when you are proactive and not reactive.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (00:48)

And being proactive about your divorce comes with a lot of big, uncomfortable feelings, especially when it pertains to your kids.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (00:56)

I want you to consider using a co-parenting app to help with communication. And not just any co-parenting app, I want you to use the most court-respected app, Our Family Wizard.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (01:05)

just visit the landing page that we created together. There is a ton of useful information and when you're ready to make the next step, our family wizard is ready to support you.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (01:15)

visit ourfamilywizard.com backslash not suck 20 to save 20 % off your first year of the essentials package.

Andrea Rappaport (01:25)

If you're anything like me and you tend to go on a hole when you're suffering, I've got news for you. There's a better way to do things.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (01:32)

Rather than hiding in a hole, your divorce besties want you to connect with those in your circle, especially as we head into the holiday season.

Andrea Rappaport (01:40)

Don't isolate yourself. You are coming up on a time when you and your kids will need community more than ever. So how do we want you to connect? By making a tiny bit of effort and actually send out holiday cards this year.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (01:55)

We are partnering with Truly Engaging, a card company that has truly won my heart over. I have personally been using them for years and believe me when I tell you, these are the nicest cards on the market.

Andrea Rappaport (02:06)

Yeah, Truly Engaging is actually the only company with a premium line that has both raised foil and the glossy varnish, which is deliciously luxurious.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (02:17)

And I know what you're thinking. Don't worry. It is not wildly expensive, especially not for our listeners.

Andrea Rappaport (02:22)

Connect with your community with a keepsake worth holiday card. And no, we aren't telling you to write, and I think I want a divorce on the back of the card. Although, ⁓ my God, if you do have the balls to write that, please send me that card because I would die.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (02:37)

No, don't write that. But do check out Truly Engaging, direct link and promo code in our show notes.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (02:44)

This episode of How Not to Suck at Divorce is brought to you by the makers of not Sober Link, but Screwball. The liqueur? Liquor? Is that how you say it? Liquor? Whiskey that's flavored like peanut butter. And it has become part of my identity now.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (02:54)

What?

Whoa, okay. I don't even know what this is, but I feel like I should.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (03:12)

It's a whiskey. Well, so I they they they sell it as a whiskey, but I don't I was looking it up and you can look it up right now if you're bored while I'm talking. So it's called screwball and it literally tastes like peanut butter and it does have like a lecurie lecurie. Is that how you say it? Now everyone's going to be making fun of how the way I say that and pillow pillow.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (03:34)

my gosh. If you know

Andrea, she can't pronounce anything or spell anything. So we're still on brand here.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (03:40)

She can't read, she can't write. No. Okay. It has the mouth of like, look, a look, a look here. It doesn't have the mouth. It feels thicker, like a little bit thicker. It is so good and you just pour it over ice. It is like my vibe. It got me through Thanksgiving week. I am into it. That and I have to give a shout out to

the newest restaurant that just opened up in my area called Field House. If you are living in the North Shore of Chicago, go get your butt to Field House. It was so good. So between my night at Field House and drinking screwball whiskey, I am ready to go because beyond that, my life has been an absolute disaster. How about you?

Morgan L. Stogsdill (04:31)

okay. So didn't know about screwball, but should. And then today has been a long day. I'm not saying that this might've happened, but what I don't recommend is in the middle of a mediation, finding your spouse coming out of the bathroom and just letting them know how bad they look today when we're in the middle of negotiations. Not saying it happened, but saying, don't do that.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (04:56)

Wait, so it didn't happen, but somebody said, so like, who were you representing, Chad or Brenda? You gotta give me something here. Okay, so your client is Chad. Brenda comes out of the bathroom and Chad's like, Brenda, you've no work to work. really?

Morgan L. Stogsdill (05:03)

Not going to say, not going to say.

Chad's waiting for Brenda. Chad's waiting for Brenda.

Uh-huh. And Brenda comes out and she's like, you know, Chad's like to Brenda, you look, wow, you look like real shit today.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (05:28)

You

Morgan L. Stogsdill (05:30)

Mm-hmm. And these two had not seen each other for, I don't even know how long, nine months in person, something like that. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. It's a really good way to start out some negotiations. Everyone's in a really good place when that happens.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (05:45)

And for those who are listening to this episode, like in real time, and they are still watching Andrea's favorite show, ⁓ All's Fair on the Hulu, the last episode was a big one, which was Kim K's mediation. So Kim K, just to catch you up, Morgan, not only is she an attorney, but she also is navigating her own divorce from...

⁓ an NFL player and they just had their own very dramatic mediation episode where all these things that would never ever ever happen happened. ⁓ Attorneys screaming at each other, crawling across the conference room table, insulting each other. There were tears. were, I mean, it was a whole thing. But let's talk about negotiation because we're finally giving you an episode on

how you do this. So here's the thing, divorce negotiation. It's not like buying a car.

or haggling with someone on the Facebook marketplace over a fabulous dining room set, which I have done. And if you need my help in that department, girl, I'm your girl, because I love the marketplace. No, no, no. But divorce negotiation is so much more fun. And I'm totally kidding. But divorce negotiation is crucial to resolving your case. But how do you negotiate? How do you do it? Seriously, because

real negotiation skills, those are things that most of us are not naturally born with or if we are born with it, it is almost impossible to allow that part of our brain to work when we perceive a threat.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (07:31)

So on this episode of How Not to Suck a Divorce, we're going to give you some insight in being master negotiators.

And if you're a regular listener, you know we love our acronyms, so here's one for negotiating. It's the word think,

T-H-I-N-K, for

of you, including Andrea, that cannot spell. We're going to get into it.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (07:55)

You're

such a jerk.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (07:59)

All right, so let's talk about think. I'm going to run through it first and then we're going to break it down in this episode. So think. The T, take the emotion out of it. The H, have realistic expectations of non-negotiables. I, identify the other side's pain points. This is leverage people. N, negotiate from facts, not feelings. And K.

I'm going to say this, I actually had to look it up myself and we're going to get into what it means. Keep your BATNA in mind. What's your BATNA? Well, I'm so glad you asked because I also did not know, but really what it's going to be is your risk. So let's get into it. Let's start with taking the emotion out of it. Andrea, go for it.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (08:46)

First of all, who's the attorney now with the legal lingo? It's this girl.

Listen.

Your feelings are valid. Okay, guys, your feelings are valid and they are 127 % allowed. And in order to be a master negotiator, your feelings need to go in a little bitty teeny tiny Ziploc bag. You need to zip it and you need to

throw it in the freezer like a pot roast from 2018 that you totally forgot about.

I'm telling you to freeze your feelings, okay? Let's give some real life examples. I want you to recognize what's happening in the moment, okay? You're Brenda. Trat, trad. Who the hell's trad? Chad says something inflammatory. I want you to recognize it, okay? Let's say,

Chad says, I am not going to give you a dime in child support, Brenda. Go ahead. Go ahead and try. You're not getting a dime. Okay, I want you to notice the trigger. The trigger is obviously you not getting money, right? So I want you to recognize it. That's my trigger. I want you to say it out loud to yourself. I am feeling triggered because Chad just said that he's not gonna give me any money. Then stop. I want you to pause. Freeze everything.

your body feel that feeling of the threat and I want you to recognize I'm feeling overwhelmed, I'm feeling pissed, and I'm feeling a tiny bit scared in case there is a tiny ounce of truth in what Chad just said, okay? But don't do anything else. Just feel. And then I want you to say out loud, like a crazy person, what it is you're feeling, right? I'm...

I'm feeling scared. I'm feeling scared that what if Chad is actually right about this? And here's what that does. Saying that feeling out loud actually takes power away from that feeling. As opposed to Chad says, Brenda, number one, you look like shit today. And number two,

You're not gonna get a dime of child support money and Brenda you immediately respond right Chad what the fuck are you talking about I am you know what you're insane I don't know who told you that and then we're off to the races

Morgan L. Stogsdill (11:14)

you.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (11:18)

Taking the emotion out.

how the hell do you do it? Well, you start by letting your attorney do the talking.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (11:25)

Yeah, and I want to put this into legal terms because what Andrea is saying makes a lot of sense and here's how you bring it into your legal strategy. So you're feeling a certain way and you might not even know when it's coming on, again, in mediations, especially at the beginning or any negotiation, when you start it out, just know the first hour you're going to be really amped up. It gets better throughout the day when you're negotiating, when you're actually like,

getting in the nitty gritty, but at first you're pretty amped up. But when you start losing it, and Andrea is saying, kind of put it in a Ziploc bag, before you do, I want you to communicate to your attorney or if you have a mediator or both, I am feeling really upset or I'm pissed off hearing this and here's why. So that your attorney can take that emotion, figure out what is really driving it and use it to your advantage.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (12:20)

I think that it's also important though that when after you do communicate to your attorney how you're feeling, then let your attorney do the talking.

That's where I want you to zip it. And so let me be clear about that. First, I want you to recognize what's going on. Then after you let your attorney do the talking, that's when you zip it. You have voiced it and then you've got to be done. it's because emotions don't help us negotiate. Emotions don't help us think and strategize.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (12:58)

And you're

not the attorney for a reason. It would be, just, had an attorney client recently and I had to tell him, you don't do this for a living, just like I don't do what you do for a living. Yes, we're both attorneys, but let me do my job. And so that's what I want you to know is you are not there to be put on, you know, on the lawyer's level. You are there to communicate what bothers you. And then we're trying to button that up so that we can get to the deal.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (13:27)

Yup! Speaking of the deal, let's get into the H because this deal, my friends...

You have, there's the H, you have to have realistic non-negotiables. So not only have your non-negotiables, but they have to be realistic non-negotiables. Okay? So there's a difference between, I want 100 % custody. Chad is an asshole. And I want the kids full-time. It's a non-negotiable

⁓

I must have the kids full time. Guess what Brenda? Little kitty cat. That is such a cute want. But that is probably not realistic. So that should not be a must-have non-negotiable for you.

So you need to work with your attorney on what are your must haves and get really clear then on the must haves versus the nice to haves. You could have something really personal. Maybe it's a thing that's a must have, right? Like a Vitamix that was autographed by Hulk Hogan and come hell or high water, that Vitamix is yours.

Or maybe it is something that has to do with the kids. Maybe it's something in the parenting agreement, like a particular

holiday, right? We've talked about this tons of times on the episode where maybe one family always celebrates Christmas Eve and that is the holiday of the year. And so for you, Christmas Eve is a non-negotiable. First, you got to ask your attorney, is that realistic? But then know what that is. And then you have to be prepared to give up something depending on how important that non-negotiable is to you.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (15:20)

Right. And recently I just had a non-negotiable with a client, which was totally realistic, but I had to listen to what was triggering her in order to get to that non-negotiable. So she was a maintenance candidate or alimony wherever you live, depending on where you live. They were a little older, I would say, in their mid to late sixties. Husband was making a lot of money. Wife was not making any money. And it was a very, very long-term marriage. And where we live,

It's indefinite maintenance, which is pretty much so long as the husband is still working, there's going to be maintenance. A non-negotiable for her and what the husband was trying to negotiate was some kind of termination date on the maintenance. And for her, she said, no, it's not worth it. What's non-negotiable to me is I think he's basically going to work until he dies. He's not going to be one of those people that just retires when he's of the able age to retire. He's going to literally die at his desk.

working. So she said to me, it's not a negotiable. I am not going to take a shorter term of maintenance no matter what is offered. And that was a realistic non-negotiable in the financial realm for her. And those are the things that you should be talking to your lawyer about, about things that really matter to you based upon, and we always say this, you know your spouse better than anybody. So use what you know to your advantage.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (16:41)

and you are leading me right into the I. So whereas the H was have realistic non-negotiables, the I stands for identify their pain points. So here's where it becomes about the person you're divorcing. And here's where it becomes, dare I say, fun. What makes them tick?

You get to kind of detective that. Detectivize? That's not a word. Definitely not. I couldn't even spell it. Detectivize. What am I doing over here? You get to play detective. You get to channel the Spice Girls. You got to figure out what they want, what they really, really

Because negotiation is not about what you want. It's about what motivates the other person.

Some people negotiate from fear. Some people negotiate from a place of ego.

Some people just love the chaos and want to argue. So I need you or I want you to look start looking for clues. What does your ex really care about? What's their insecurity? What are they terrified of losing? What do they typically use as leverage? Think back in your marriage. When you argue, where does their brain go? Where how does it typically work out?

with them.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (18:12)

and use it to your advantage legally. So I'll have a story for you, Andrea. So there was once, many years ago, an issue where I had the wife. that, I had

Brenda. Brenda knew that Chad really, really wanted this one property, this piece of property, and the overall divorce decree, overall judgment. And so Brenda was like, I know that he is going to freak out if I say I want it too.

What she wanted was more money on the balance sheet, meaning a higher value for the property that he wanted to take. So she said, and I said, let's go in and let's pretend you also want this property. So, so bad. So now you both want this property. And when we got to mediation, the mediator said, okay, you both want it. Let's do this. Both of you put on the table in an envelope your highest price that you're willing to pay for this property to buy the other one out.

The gentleman,

put a huge amount on it because we knew that he wanted that property so much. My client put $1 on the piece of paper. $1 because that was the deal. So we got him to take a huge amount, put a huge amount out there, which only got her more money in her pocket. And we took the $1 side because we knew he was going to do anything to keep that piece of property.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (19:42)

Wait, but does that mean that that's actually what he bought her out for? Of that property? That that was the actual buying price. It wasn't just like a game. Or an exercise.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (19:45)

Yes.

He didn't buy,

no, it was not a game. was part of a mediation deal.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (19:54)

Holy cow. Okay, so here we go, dovetailing into the next one. That mediator went off of facts because numbers are facts. Numbers also don't have feelings. The N in our think acronym is negotiate from facts, not feelings.

Well, how do you deal with facts? Facts need to be in writing. Whenever you are collecting facts,

You know us, we're always gonna tell you to put these facts in bullet points. Don't write long paragraphs. And when you are making a proposal based on these facts, much like the how much do you want this property for, you need to be using real numbers, not guesses.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (20:41)

Right, because here's the deal. In law, in the divorce realm, facts win. They just do. Stories spiral and they spiral you.

So there you go. There you have it. I'm gonna give you a story of one of the things that I dealt with. Had a client. This time I had Brenda. Brenda was married to Chad and Chad had a best friend named John. John was a problem. He was a problem friend because he was friends with both.

and he kept meddling in the middle of the divorce and basically playing the game of telephone. So John would go to Chad, talk to him about something related to the divorce. Then he'd go over to Brenda and say, hey Brenda, don't worry. Chad says that when this property sells, he's gonna give you that money. It's not gonna be a big issue. Now, I'm sure that John had good intentions. John was just trying to be a friend to both of them, et cetera. But the game of telephone never ends well and it's not.

something that is factual in a divorce. So now I have Brenda coming to me over and over saying, our friend John says that Chad is going to give me all this money when the property sells. So then I said, okay, great. Let me go talk to his lawyer. Absolutely not, his lawyer says, because John is not in the divorce. John is not factual. That's a story. That's a game of telephone. We want that out of the negotiations. It's all about facts.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (22:04)

And that's so hard because we want to go off the emotion, especially when we just told you that, the I, which is identify their pain points. And naturally, when you're thinking about their pain points, you're going to dive into feelings, but we got to stay with the facts here. So I'm going to remind you of where we're at so far. The think acronym.

Take the emotion out of it. Have realistic non-negotiables. Identify their pain points. Negotiate from facts, not feelings. And then finally, Chad and Brenda, I bring you the K, which is keep your BATNA in mind. Now, what the fuck is a BATNA? Well, here's where you find out. Your BATNA stands for your best

alternative to a negotiated agreement. This is a real legal thing, okay? I'll say it again, your best alternative to a negotiated agreement. This is basically like your safety net that prevents you from negotiating out of desperation.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (23:11)

Okay, so legally, I've never heard this term. Maybe I'm the idiot, but, and I had to chat GBD it and it actually came up with some funny things because yes, BATNA means best alternative to a negotiated agreement, but it also means something else that I actually laughed out loud when I read it and now I can't find it, but regardless. Yes, if you can find it, please share it with our listeners. And if you listeners want to look it up, it's...

How Not To Suck At Divorce (23:30)

What? does?

Again, I'm going to.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (23:38)

BATNA, B-A-T-N-A, put it in chat, G-B-T, see what it says. But when I'm thinking about what this means legally is it's your backstop. It is essentially the court. So what I'm thinking about is your best alternative if you fail in negotiations in your divorce case is court because the judge will make call balls and strikes, the judge will make a decision. So really what we're thinking about here, this safety net is knowing exactly where you could fall.

in your case, if you don't make an agreement, that is your safety net. So in my mind, the way that I always think about it and what I talk to clients about is it's your risk. It's your risk in your case. Where does your lawyer think that this may end up if you were not able to negotiate an agreement or a settlement?

How Not To Suck At Divorce (24:29)

listening to what you just said because I was looking at the meaning of that. It means here are some other things that it could mean. It's slang for backup plan. Is that what you were talking about or no? This acronym came from Harvey Lawson.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (24:49)

it's a city. I'm

so sorry. I just figured it out. Batna is a major city in northeastern Algeria.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (24:57)

Okay, that was nowhere close to where I was going. I was like doing a deep dive over here. I love that here you are explaining to all the people what to do and I'm like, do do do do do do. So in case anyone wonders, because I'm now an attorney, speaking of Elle Woods who went to Harvard Law,

this stupid word.

comes from Harvard Law. I guess it's something that they came up with there. And it does mean, and a lot of people use it as your backup plan. Like, this is my ideal situation, but this is my BATNA. So you're like,

Morgan L. Stogsdill (25:49)

⁓ my gosh.

How about you just think about it as, because it does sound fancy, but as a lawyer, what you're going to think of it is plan A is always negotiate and get this thing settled. If you can get it done through mediation or negotiation, you are winning. And the way to get it settled through mediation or negotiation is to always know what happens if you were to go to court because that is not necessarily, I

It's a safety net to some extent, I should say, because you know where you could go, but it doesn't sound safe and you don't want to go to court if you don't have to. But you have to know in order to make a deal, and this is what Andrea is talking about with his spatinas, what do the financials look like if you walk away? What are they going to look like if you step in front of a judge? What's the range of outcomes that a judge may determine in your case with your facts?

How Not To Suck At Divorce (26:43)

Here comes one. Utilize your Vatna so you don't turn on your Vatna. Your Vatna is the worst case alternative. Don't give me that face. Don't give me that face over there, lawyer Barbie. What? Listen, listen, because when we go to our Vatna, which is the fear, right? my God, my God, what if I lose this house?

Morgan L. Stogsdill (26:57)

That is the grossest, grossest sounding word. I don't even know. I don't know.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (27:10)

What if he gets more time with the kids? What if I can't afford my life? That's where that bad part of your brain turns on and you start spiraling and you start making a ton of mistakes because you are operating from fear. So your bat-knot is the best alternative. Okay? Think strategically. Okay, so if I don't get this, then what's the next best option for me?

Let's look at money. Okay, a lot. We spend money getting divorced. It's an unpopular opinion, but sometimes we're spending more money to get divorced than if we just say, you know what, I'm going to make this mediation work. I'm going to walk out of this mediation done. Okay. Whatever it is, however the chips fall, I'm not going to fight anymore because the only person I'm making wealthy is my attorney and her attorney.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (28:06)

Yep. I know. And it's a really good idea. And I think that it will save people a lot of money because when you know what your BATNA is, you know what could happen in court, you're not going to be panicking over their proposals because you're going to know if you're in the range. You're not going to accept low ball offers. You're not going to chase them emotionally. You're going to negotiate from a calm place, not chaos. And you're going to know

How Not To Suck At Divorce (28:06)

So maybe we stop.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (28:34)

when walking away is better than taking the deal. You know also and recognize, I should say, when mediation is worth continuing. And in my opinion, sometimes an unpopular opinion, but for those handful of just really bad situations and bad cases, mediation is generally always worth continuing.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (28:54)

and in a lot of states you have to mediate before you go on to the next thing. Now, there are times where mediation fails and you can't negotiate, right? I mean, the famous phrase is like, can't negotiate with the terrorist, but you can still learn. It's not fully.

⁓ waste in time because you will learn something. You will learn more about what makes them tick and if you have a good attorney and you know all roads lead back to having the right attorney for your case, your attorney will walk away from that mediation with some insight and you should never ever ever

have a mediation without your attorney being in the loop. Now whether or not you can afford an attorney assisted mediation, fine. But your attorney needs to prep you right before the mediation and you bet your bottom dollar.

that it is worth every single penny to give a full overview of exactly what happened in your mediation so that your attorney can learn more about, OK, that's interesting, so that they can help you with the next best alternative.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (30:10)

And one of the things that I see clients do all the time, especially after the first day, the first day of mediation usually feels pretty wasteful. There's not always a lot of progress that is made, but that's exactly what Andrea is saying, is that those are the days that your attorney is learning your other, your spouse, basically. They're also learning about you because you are behaving in a certain way. They're watching your cues. And if you're feeling like, God, did I just waste all my money this entire day?

Ask the lawyer straight out. Like for instance, today, I just had a conversation with my client saying, hey, this is a pretty typical day of mediation. It probably felt like you wasted the eight hours we were here, but I don't feel like that. I feel like this is what we got out of today. And so if you're worried about it, ask your lawyer what you think or what they think you got out of that day.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (31:01)

I had a mediation once that lasted an hour and we, you know, we were.

pretty high conflict. So, and this was during COVID, so it was all virtual and the mediator was going back and forth between my virtual room and my ⁓ ex-husband's virtual room. And she was a woman came back to me at one point and said, I'm going to call it right now. This isn't going to go anywhere. Okay. I'm not taking any more of your money. It is one hour. This will not work. ⁓ There's, you know, the

this person is not here to play ball and whatever. Now, was it a waste of whatever amount of money that I had to pay for that hour? No, because I still learned what

his non-negotiable was and what was triggering him and why it was triggering him. Now, it mattered to me that his non-negotiable wasn't realistic because I knew, okay, well, when we take this next step and have a hearing I knew that this was probably gonna go in a certain way because it's like, well, if you want the moon and the stars, then you're not gonna get both.

but you still learned something. So you gotta have your eyes open and your mind open and listen to your mediator and listen to your attorney. One of the questions I famously ask people all the time is, if this were your life, what would you do?

Pretend for a minute that you are me. Help me out here. I'm feeling very flooded. I'm really overwhelmed. Step in, take the wheel. What would you do? And you'd be really surprised what your attorney will say because then that's when you really see the real human side of somebody and they'll look at you and they'll say, you know what, Andrea? I would fight for this or...

they would say, okay, I'm glad you asked. You've got this, you've got this, you've got this. If it were me, I'd cut my losses and go home and be happy with what I have. Have you done that with people, Morgan? Like have you looked someone in the eye and said, done?

Morgan L. Stogsdill (33:16)

Yes, absolutely. Not everyone, not every client. I will certainly weigh in when a client asks me straight out, what would you do? ⁓ But I do think it's my job to be like, this is my recommendation, because a lot of clients are torn in those situations. It is stressful. It's a lot of negotiation and not everyone's used to doing it. Not everyone's a business person. We want you to think like one, but that's easier said than done because if you're not

doing business every day. It's much more difficult when it's your life and now it's like, well, think like a business person. You're like, yeah, but I'm not. So what do you mean by that? So you can certainly ask your lawyer, if this were your life, what would you do? Or what is your recommendation? I'm feeling like I'm a little out of control. I don't know what to do here. Your lawyer should be able to answer that.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (34:06)

So again, think friends, take out the emotion. Have.

realistic non-negotiables. Communicate those non-negotiables to your attorney, but first say, is this realistic? Sort out the must-haves from the nice-to-haves, even if it's a Hulk Hogan signed Vitamix, which I imagine has to exist somewhere.

identify their pain points. that's when you're really getting under the hood of their car. It kind of takes you out of you and your own mental stuff and you get to think about them. Okay? I think it's fun. Maybe you don't. N.

negotiate from facts not feelings and not fiction negotiate from facts negotiate from numbers numbers don't have feelings they are numbers and the k keep your batna in mind the best alternative the backup this is the backup plan just like how being a realtor was the backup career of the 90s here comes your batna okay

Morgan L. Stogsdill (35:16)

You

and your friends, the realtors, you just, you can't help yourself with them, can you?

How Not To Suck At Divorce (35:22)

No, because they are opportunistic backstabbing bitches. No, I'm just kidding. Not all of them. Just some of the ones that I know. Anywho, shake it off, girl. Just like Taylor Swift said.

⁓ my god, can we go back to talking about screwball for a minute? Because if you get screwed over in your mediation, baby, pour yourself a shot of this and you'll be glad. More importantly, have you bought anything fun lately?

Morgan L. Stogsdill (35:54)

I've kind of just been on the boring buying lately. How about you?

How Not To Suck At Divorce (35:57)

you know, I have to say in a moment of honesty, and here's one of my pain points, TikTok Shop has failed me.

I was on such a high from the TikTok shop, buying so many goods coming in from countries like China and other places. And I was having so much fun with those, you know, four-year-olds that just know how to knit so well. Those tiny little fingers do such a good job in those cute little sweatshops. But their work is inconsistent. And the last few things that I have purchased have not gone so well.

and I'm unhappy about that. But you know what? That's what happens when you get a sweatsuit for $20. I'm waiting for something to land on my lap and like stand up. Wait. Wait.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (36:49)

I can't keep a straight face with you right now. I don't know why

you've been holding out this whole episode until now.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (36:57)

Listen, who came? Guess, guess, guess who had, guess who drank screwball with me over this last weekend? Guess who had a fabulous dinner with me at Fieldhouse last night? I'll give you a clue. I did not do a body shot off of him.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (37:16)

Your father.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (37:20)

Daddy Rapaport was in town and it was so great but the whole time I kept thinking, oh my God, I love how much we were joking around about doing body shots and then looking at my dad's like pale Jewish man's belly, I was just like, I mean, I still did it, right? Cause I ain't no quitter. And that screwed all of it.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (37:41)

If you have no idea, if you have

absolutely no idea what we're talking about, listen to our last episode. It was one for the books. Andrea, think drank screwball before, for doing our podcast.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (37:52)

⁓ my god, body shots off your da- Listen, if- I mean, come on, you gotta laugh. You gotta get a little screwed, ball. Guys, we joke because sometimes you have to, because this sucks. Getting divorced sucks. It is awful. Our job is to help you not suck.

at getting divorced, but we make no claims about the fact that this process ain't fun. It's not. It's not designed that way. It's not fun and it's not fair. But you will get through this.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (38:28)

Yep. And that's why we always say

divorce is a marathon. It's not a sprint. Some days it's day by day, other days it's hour by hour, and that's okay. We get it. Andrea's lived it and I live it every day with clients.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (38:42)

So friends, when your batna, when your batna fails, you've got us. We're here for you every single day.

We are your divorce besties. Listen to these episodes. Listen to old episodes. If you want to join the private community, It's there for a reason. If you need more help, if you need more acronyms and some real tangible handholding, then we've got options for you. We have the Divorce Crash Course, which is a private podcast that comes with a printable workbook that literally holds your

hands through the beginning steps of your divorce process. And I'm going to repeat the beginning steps of your divorce process. If you are wrapping up towards the end of the process, the divorce crash course is probably not for you, but you know what is for you? Our guides. We have so many guides. Communicating with a high conflict individual, speaking to your kids about divorce, the most economic way of communicating with your attorney, and a parenting plan guide, and

I was about to ⁓ bury my lead here. We're very excited to announce that coming very soon is a guide on mediation. We've got guides coming out of our screw balls for you.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (39:59)

It's right.

And with that, if you enjoy our podcast, please rate and review us. It means the world. We don't care if you are the truck driver sending us hate mail. We liked it all. So send us a review. Give us those reviews because they get the best guests on the show and enable Andrea and I to continue doing what we love to do, which is backing you up in the worst process ever, the divorce process.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (40:28)

god, I thought you were gonna say I'm the worst way possible. I'm like, yeah, sometimes. Best way possible. ⁓ my god, she can't speak. She can't, I mean, what is my problem? How is it that I can barely speak and I host a podcast? We don't know, but we do know that your life is about to get so much better.

Hang on, we know your arms are tired, but keep swimming because my friends, you have got this.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (41:00)

and we

have got you.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (41:02)

The How Not to Suck a Divorce podcast shall not be copied or rebroadcast without consent. This podcast does not contain legal advice. The information heard in this podcast is not and shall not be construed as legal advice.