2025 was the year of discourse.

>> Oh, what a great take.

Did chat GBT come up with that?

Did you get a little AI to come up with it?

You don't even know what you're talking.

Well, you captain woke over here.

Oh, look at you with your >> A critical error is an error which the OS cannot reasonably ignore.

Shake Steinberg is a streamer, writer, and certified yapper.

Complimentary.

Peter Hunt tech is a YouTuber, journalist, and certified yapper.

Derogatory.

These are the things they cannot reasonably ignore.

>> More than any other year, I feel like 2025 was controlled by the narrative.

The games that had hype, the games that had staying power, the ones that we talked about on social media, the discourse was dominated by games that had a degree of weaponization that could be used, some kind of online friction that made it a hot thing to talk about.

And I think when you look at the biggest games of the year, these are games that are not without scandal.

They're not without online friction.

And I think that because of this, there were so many good games, strong games, well-developed games that came out and just like came and went that we totally forgot about because it didn't have this thing online that you could attack or defend or get really up in arms, pick up the sword about.

When Mario Kart World hits your brand new Switch 2 on launch day, what are you picking up the sword?

Who are you fighting about online?

Where are the trolls?

Do you get what I'm saying here?

>> I do.

I do.

I feel like this hits a little bit of what we talked about last week to a certain extent.

It's a different sort of angle on it where like all of these games came out as you said.

Uh and people loved them.

You look at their Metacritic scores.

You look at the way people talked about them the week that they came out and it's like you have to play this game.

You are missing out if you do not play this game.

I have never heard anyone say anything about the Shringing 2 after it came out.

I'M SORRY.

WOW.

WOW.

>> I liked it.

I liked it.

I'm actually I'm I'm going to I'm working on something about Designing 2 because it was there was one piece that like sort of stuck out to me, but that was it.

And I just don't I I I I think the way that people have sort of like latched on to games this year is largely unrelated to the games themselves and more about, as you identified, the narratives surrounding them.

A very common experience, I imagine, for listeners this year was more time was spent arguing about a video game online in a in a way that was almost devoid of actually what the game was or what it was doing.

Kind of a a a thing about the game kind of like dominates the online discussion while the entirety of the game goes unlitigated.

Or I I think a lot of the time like a moment from a game that is out of context is the thing that people are talking about and then with the full context people are not really talking about it.

I think about uh Mr.

Miles McKenzie in Metroid Prime 4 that dominated the discourse for a week and then Metroid Prime 4 comes out and everyone sort of shrugs and goes, "Yeah, it's all right." And then I have not heard anything about Metroid Prime 4 since.

And I also think I would like to preface this conversation too by by recognizing the fact that um this is entirely subjective based on >> our circles, right?

Like based on the people that we're talking to and the people that we like uh uh interact with online.

Uh so just because I'm saying hey nobody's talking about death training too.

uh that is not that I'm talking about like in my circle, in my experience online.

Of course, I just don't think we need to cuff that with everything we say here, but I think it's worth saying right at the top.

>> Yeah.

I like that you bring up the Miles McKenzie thing because I think that that was maybe the most salient and like like marketing beat that that game had >> from how you know from however long to the game actually coming out.

the the moment where I feel like there was a narrative, the strongest like solid tangible narrative around Metroid Prime 4 was when those previews dropped.

I think and and then I think that conversation, that friction about what what did that Miles McKenzie conversation represent?

It represented that this Metroid Prime game was not what people wanted or thought of as a Metroid Prime experience.

And then I think you can see very naturally how that conversation framed a lot of the reviews that came out and how that conversation framed a lot of the general conversation that happened after that game came out.

It was kind of situating that conversation, the framing of what was important because of that really strong discourse that emerged from that moment on.

>> Yeah, 100%.

And and it's this thing where like the discourse surrounding the game seemed to be more interesting to talk about than the game itself.

And you know, like you it came out, people talked about it on podcasts for that week.

Maybe they mention it the next week where they say like, "Yeah, I'm still sort of getting the end of Metroid Prime 4." But it's not the sort of thing that is people liked the game.

It scored well.

It reviewed well.

People talked about it.

A lot of people said, "Hey, this is one of my favorites of the year." And yet it feels like it disappeared because what was more interesting about the game was talking about one aspect of the game because it was it was hot and then as soon as that disappeared is gone.

>> I want to bring in split fiction.

>> Welcome pod split fiction.

Joseph Ferris welcome anytime.

>> Split fiction uh released in released in March of this year.

Uh, Split Fiction.

Currently, if we go to Metacritic's best reviewed games of the year, if we eliminate the two Legend of Zelda Switch 2 editions that are at the top of this list, there are three games above Split Fiction.

Uh, Blueprints, Clare Obscure Expedition 33, and Hades 2.

Split Fiction the fourth best reviewed game on the year of the year according to Metacritic.

I think if you take a glance, a gander at year-end lists published by most outlets, I I think that a commonly missed game if you are going to look at the games that surrounded on this list.

So again, Hades 2, Expedition 33, Blueprints.

Now below Split Fiction, Donkey Kong Bonanza, Hollow Knight 6, Silkong, Despalote.

I think out of all of the games I just listed, Split Fiction is the most likely title to be left off of these year-end lists.

And >> I think that this demonstrates how important discussion around the game is, what people talk about with this game is to kind of these reflections of um what's important, what we want to represent us, what we think is a valuable game.

Because split fiction is the rare instance of a game having negative online aura.

Whatever people get out of saying putting Despalote on their list, whatever people get out of putting and Roger on their list, whatever people get out of putting Hollow Night Silk Song on their list, whatever that quality is, you get the opposite.

You get negative from putting split fiction on your list because it is seen as dumb.

It is seen as a game that to appreciate what it is doing, particularly on a narrative level, you must be a baboon.

You must be like like an actual little weirdo.

And it's it's like embarrassing to have that on a list that is representing you at the end of the year.

While at the same time, we can all agree objectively objectively this is one of the best reviewed games of the year by far.

And it's so funny, right?

Because it's like I don't feel that way.

You I don't think feel that way about like if someone had split fiction on their list, it's like, "Oh, great.

Awesome.

It's it was a fun game.

could be on my list.

>> But it's it is this thing where it's like but yeah, if you put it on your top 10 list, I think people are going to be like, "Really?" >> Yeah.

>> Split Fiction, the number four best reviewed game of the year that when it came out, everyone said you must play.

It's it's Hazelite Studios best game they've ever made.

And what's critical here, Peter, is that I think that this is directly the the the causal situation that we're looking at is because the discourse surrounding split fiction is that the story is bad and embarrassing and stupid and that has then controlled how people think of that >> going to remember it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

>> Yes.

Yes.

Exactly.

So, it has changed the narrative because the discourse that emerged is that this is stupid and embarrassing.

And just a quick note on split fiction, everybody listen, that is a it is a rare instance of a game just being absolutely destroyed by how bad its story is in a very specific way.

But I do want to make a little a little note here that there are narrative elements in that game that are quite good.

I don't know if you even played it, but I did.

>> There is Okay.

There is kind of a funny situation in that game where two characters I think are on like a motorcycle or something and one has to >> unlock the phone.

The phone is the best part of that whole game >> and they have to go through the >> Yes.

Cuz I was doing the phone part and and my friend Josh was doing the the other I don't know what he was doing cuz I was locked in the funniest gag in a game >> in like a long time.

That's like a Portal 2 level ass gag that is just like no this is good.

This is quite funny.

>> Yeah.

and and that's writing and there are a lot of video gamey ideas that emerge and kind of tell their story and then the video game idea ends and then they move on to another thing and there so like it's a lot of this has to do with the way that we talk about narrative just just a little just a little I just want to give a tip of my cap to split fiction I don't I don't want to be like oh if you like this game you're an ape but that was the >> no which to be clear that is not what the position is it is that that is how other people view it feels this game >> yes of course and and I understand why there are embarrassing things about the narrative.

The way that that game deploys the word story in a game that is obsessed with stories makes me think that they don't know what a story is and that quite embarrassing.

But um the way that that narrative was able to kind of like grab hold and I think affect how people now reflect on that game at the end of the year.

Um, but then I think if we look at some other games, if we broaden our views, >> you will find that a lot of games sustained attention and were able to operate online, especially kind of like in these social spaces we're talking about simply because there was a, for lack of a better word, maybe a scandal associated with them there.

>> Yeah.

I think just generalized discourse about a game.

>> Thank you.

M >> um right you know it's really easy to point to some of these you know like clear obscure the discourse was the story of the game's development and then on top of that there were a billion different discourses right about how there you know it's like oh only 30 people made this game and then it's like no more than 30 people made this game and oh you know but how did they all meet and it's such an interesting inspiring story and all that sort of stuff which is is I think part of and we talked about this a little bit last week part of what gripped people so much about that game is that it is this sort of feel-good interesting discourse and narrative and all that.

>> And every time I've kind of brought this up, I've had some people online be like, "Jake, what are you talking about?

I don't I didn't see this discourse at all." So, I do want to, but then the people that have experienced it are like, "Jake, you did not invent this.

This is a real thing." Uh, there is a kind of weird discourse surrounding Expedition 33 about its relationship to Japanese RPGs.

And uh yes, >> this is something that like I am not in these particular circles online, but I do know it is a like engine of discourse that has kind of sustained all year.

So I do want to bring it up and talk about how I think this did contribute to the game being as big as it was.

Um, so I want to point to there was an article that came out back in August on GameSpot by Jess Reyes called Clarecure Expedition 33 is great, but its popularity raises big questions about how we view Japanese RPGs.

Um, and in that piece, just to read a quick bit, Clare Obscure success also magn magnified criticisms of Japanese turn-based games, only some of which are deserved.

Finally, the haters said, "A turnbased RPG that is actually good, as if those don't already exist." So this weird discourse kind of emerged about uh anti-Japanese bias in video games and a certain class of video gamer that is like oh because this doesn't have maybe the cultural trappings of a JRPG, people are much more open to trying it when there maybe would be all of these games that if they were Yeah.

So so that's kind of like the heart of what that discourse is.

And I do think that the size, the appeal, the the staying power online of Expedition 33 at least is in small part to having this uh well-meaning kind of class of video game player praise and love this game, but also this weaponized kind of understudied group of people using it to forward a narrative that is maybe not so good.

>> Yeah.

It's interesting too like a game like Clear Obscure like just there were so many different like >> layers to it that you could then discourse about, right?

Cuz I also like right now, literally right now this morning, uh everyone's being like, "Hey, did we all forget that Clear Obscure had like Gen AI content in it when it launched?" Which is interesting.

Like I I never heard about this, but sure, let's talk about this now, too, you know.

Um, but then, you know, I I turned my eyes to something like like Hollow Night.

Hollow Knight dominated the conversation leading up to its launch and then it launches and then I in my circle haven't really seen a whole lot of people talking about it.

Um, that's not to say that people aren't, right?

Uh, people are it's it's particularly big on YouTube.

Um, and and within like the Hollow Night community, people are still just loving it.

But when it comes to um like a lot of like the games media class of people that we that we talk about a lot on the show, it feels like it kind of disappeared because there honestly wasn't a whole lot of discourse surrounding it after it came out.

People were talking about difficulty discourse and run boss runbacks and stuff like that.

But like that's all played out, right?

Like it's I don't think Hollow Knight was adding anything new to the conversation other than a lot of people saying like, "Hey, I don't like this." And that's it, you know, for the most part.

Obviously, I'm simplifying, but >> there is a kind of person that I think maybe likes participating in discussions about video games on Reddit, on forums more than they like or maybe spends more time doing those things than they actually do playing video games.

Yeah.

And I wonder too, just because the premise of this podcast, how we talk about games, if this exposes a certain level of inadequacy in being able to drudge meaning out of the text itself, as opposed to to being in conversation with what the narrative surrounding the game is, because I think you'll agree with me, the biggest narrative, the most amount of discourse surrounding Hollite Silkong was its absence, was its where is it?

When is it going to come out?

And I think we saw the most online material discussion about the game when they announced their release date and all of those other games had to move out of the way.

>> Yeah.

>> You know what's interesting too about this is and and again 7 million people played Hollow Night Silkong.

Like that's like astounding.

People are talking about this, but I think we're talking about like the reason this is all like on the mind for for us is as these like game of the year lists kind of come out.

Um, and you see, you know, here's the top 10 games and it's all the same games and they're like pretty much in the same order.

And then you sort of like go and if you're like me, uh, and you're an insane person, I then go and I will like look at the people who like write for that publication.

I'm like, what are you saying about these games?

Whatever.

And it's like what we're saying where like then you look at what they're saying and like the game just disappears and it's gone except for when it launched.

um often times and like what I find so kind of like fascinating is when these stories come out, when like the discourses about the game show up, I often times am like trying to like get to the bottom of, hey, is the game good or are we just talking about it, >> right?

>> You know what I mean?

Like like is is the game actually good or are we just talking about it this week?

Is there gonna be more to say about it than than whatever uh uh than than whatever like we're just saying this one week?

And you know, you sort of just hit on this idea of like um it's important now and then maybe it's not important later.

And if it's not important later, then is it any good?

And like that's for me as someone who like does not have like, you know, infinite cash to pick up every single video game that comes out.

Sometimes I'm like, is it actually that good or did you just get to play it and now you're talking about it and then it's gone next week or two weeks or whatever?

Yeah, it's funny.

It makes me wonder if this is a symptom of our current media landscape because most people will meet a video game for the first time not through playing it but through a conversation about it.

The first exposure to a video game is like a controversy or a take.

So by the time somebody interacts with a game, the kind of like framing of it, the meaning of what they are parsing has already been decided and it becomes increasingly difficult to find meaning on your own because you are involved in a conversation from the moment that you encounter a game, right?

>> Yeah.

It's it's interesting too because it's like >> depending on when like it's usually and for me it's usually the proximity of when the game was released >> will be decide what uh will decide what discourse you get and if it's closer to the game release usually it's the better it's like people are saying it's really good and then the further away you are people saying it's really bad.

I think about Mario Kart World.

Um, that's a game that when it came out, everyone's like, "Oh my gosh, it's good.

It's good.

It's so good.

It's so good." And then like three weeks later, people were like, "Hey, it's actually pretty bad." And it's interesting because actually I I like the game quite a bit.

Um, and I think a lot of the things that people are saying about it when they're like saying, "Oh, it's bad." are a lot of the things that they were saying were good, you know, just two weeks before.

And and it's so interesting because I'm like, okay, but like how are we making this dis this distinction?

And and >> why is it that that those things are good right when the game comes out, but then 3 weeks later they are bad?

Is it the sort of idea that like, hey, we just actually sat on this and like the more you play it and the longer you you're exposed to it, it's actually not quite as as solid as you once thought or like how does all that work?

And I find it to be kind of fascinating.

You know what I mean?

>> You know, it's it's funny.

I actually think that Split Fiction and Mario Kart World have more in common than you might initially think.

And it's it's this funny thing where I play Mario Kart World and I find the most expressive Mario Kart game I've ever played.

Not just in terms of the literal characters being expressive, but the kind of mental stack of your possibilities, what is available to you as you are driving.

That's why I like it so much.

I felt like Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, I was kind of on autopilot.

And uh I've I've described the getting new uh tracks in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe felt like getting skins for tracks.

like no matter what I was doing, it kind of became invisible and I was doing the same thing all the time.

Whereas in Mario Kart World, the addition of the the the grinding, the jumping, the all this different stuff, the I just found it to be more like I have moments where I go, I have to make a choice about what I'm going to pursue right now and can I execute it in a way that I really really like.

>> It's that idea like what you're saying where like the old levels were just sort of skins for you to sort of engage with the exact same way you engage with everything else.

Whereas the levels in Mario Kart World, you're trying to like decide like how am I going to get through this and like like what path am I going to take and and are there skills that I'm going to have to apply to get through it?

>> Oh my god.

But dude, and then um Knockout Tour, which I find to be the >> I love it's good.

It's quite good.

>> The intensity of a race finishing, they found a way to compound that feeling so it happens constantly over the course of a long gauntlet.

So, it's like the most interesting part of a race.

It's not the part where you're like sandbagging and you're like, "Okay, then it's going to get real at the end." It's like that just keeps happening over and over again.

And I can say all this great stuff about Mario Kart World, but I think what happens is that Mario Kart World comes out and there's a certain kind of person that sticks with the game that gets to decide what the discourse is.

And then you kind of see people taking their cues about what the correct answer is, the correct response to that game is based on who those people are.

We actually talked about this a little bit earlier in the year with the kind of relitigation of Borderlands 3 before Borderlands 4 came out.

>> Oh yeah, exactly.

Yes.

>> And it was this funny thing where like Borderlands 3 reviews very well.

I like that game a lot.

But then in the years following its release, one narrative emerges about that game, which is nobody liked this.

And you will find Actually, >> yes.

In every leadup to Borderlands 4, even in many of the reviews for Borderlands 4, there was this reference back to a Borderlands 3 that didn't even exist that they were like, "Don't worry, they've fixed that thing that you all liked." And it was Yeah.

So, it was very weird.

So, but anyways, I I bring up this comparison to Split Fiction because I do think that it's like this game that everybody plays it and they go, I like this.

I have things to say about this.

But then the narrative takes hold and the narrative is able to rewrite the identity of what that game was.

I would even say this happened with the original Kirby Air Ride on the Gamecube we've talked about.

I think the Yeah, the the narrative is able to rewrite the legacy and kind of the lasting conversation about that game and maybe make it more or less important than it ever was.

>> Yeah, 100%.

And it's interesting too like like I'm just looking at this list on on Metacritic of just you know the year's best scoring games and and um we will at some point eventually do a video or a podcast about Metacritic as a concept >> certainly.

Um but you know it is a helpful tool to just like see like yeah what scored well this year?

What what resonated with people in reviews?

Um and and I look at you know here we got number 35 on here scoring 86 Ghost of Yote.

And this is a video.

This is a game that that has like popped up on a lot of these end of the year lists.

But what's so interesting is is I don't feel like anyone is is really engaging with the g with what the game actually is and what it's actually trying to do and what it's actually telling you when they talk about it >> because like I don't know maybe this is a different different sort of problem I'm I'm talking about here but like um that is a game that I feel like came and went faster than anything this year.

Uh uh and and it feels like it ends up on these lists because it's kind of an like obligation of just like well it was a really good-looking game that was a little bit more of that combat that I liked from Ghost of Tsushima.

Um do you know what I mean?

>> I do.

Um add to this conversation though.

>> No, no, no.

This reminds me of um one of my favorite authors, Todd Coots.

M >> uh he talks about in between uh the world and me how people and people and cultures kind of construct narratives and beliefs for the sake of maintaining their the identity of the self.

So even when there is like evidence to the contrary, there is kind of this this sense of self that is like really important to maintain.

And I found that maybe the bulk of the discourse surrounding Ghosts of Yotay, the most tangible way I saw that game talked about online was maintained and manufactured by this kind of like Gamergate anti- >> Yeah.

Yeah.

>> Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it was the um displacement of this male protagonist for the sake of this, you know, uh N binary actor playing a woman.

>> Yeah.

>> And Yeah.

And that was kind of like the the tangible discourse there.

And I wonder if the sense of self, this maintaining this identity, uh, if having a a particular opinion about a game, we'll talk about with something like Arc Raiders, uh, being able to show people you are anti-AI through a kind of social performance.

Is there >> is there is there maybe not a social performance attached to saying I like >> Atsu in this game?

>> It's and obviously I'm not trying to levy that people are like faking that they that they like this character.

Obviously not.

That's that's not what I'm trying to say.

But I am trying to say that there there is something important to people in how they talk about games that is a representation of the self.

>> Yes.

So like it's interesting in in my video critiquing the game.

Um, obviously I I think I think it goes without saying, but to make it clear, the reason why I don't like as a character has nothing to do with the fact that she's a woman.

>> Uh, obviously.

But it's this thing where in the comments of that video, there were people saying like, "Oh, great.

Another grifter just hating this game cuz it's a lady." And I'm like, "No, no, no.

Atu as a woman and Erica Isi as a I think non-binary, maybe gender fluid person." Um, that has nothing to do with what I don't like about this game.

And you know, if you watch my video, you can I outline very clearly what I don't like about this game.

Um, but I think that if you are to bring a negative take to the table of Ghost of Yote, you have to worry about being seen as the people who do >> hate the game because of of the the gender identity of the character and and the actor and and all of that sort of thing.

Um, which is complicated.

And to your point, I'm also not saying that anyone who says they like the game is pretending because they're trying to be woke or whatever or perceived as that or whatever.

That's not what I'm getting at here.

Um because you can certainly like those things.

You can certainly like the game and and have it not be nothing to do with with all that in the same way that I don't like the game and it has nothing to do with that, >> of course.

But do I think that the existence of the anti-woke narrative makes it maybe to some people more important that they are outspoken about liking something that they do like?

Maybe it does.

>> I would rather be shot in the chest with a rifle than have anyone perceive me as a homophobe.

>> Do you know what I mean?

Like I would rather be drawn and quartered than have anyone like think that I am transphobic or anything like that.

I I really uh don't want anyone to walk away from my distaste for that game with that being their perspective of me.

So like >> I think then yeah I I do think that like there is going to be an ele potentially an elevated sense of like you have to play this game.

It is so good.

But some of the re some of that reason might be because it's like well we want to champion the fact that this game is a has a protagonist that is a woman with an actor that is I I should maybe clarify if they're a gender uh non-binary or or gender fluid.

I think there is a difference there that is not to my understanding here.

Um but uh regardless of of what that exact definition is, you don't want to come across like you are you are being you are aiding to the people who are are criticizing it because of that.

And so I think sometimes we we maybe over uh overcompensate maybe I don't know.

>> Yeah, of course.

And I I think what's important here a couple of things.

First I think it is very easy for anybody to see what we are trying to describe in the inverse relationship.

Do people who are these kind of like anti-woke grifters, do they go into a video game and ready not to like it, ready to hate it and then kind of perform hating it even if they even if they don't even really hate it that much.

Like we know that that is true.

We know that that's true.

And then it's like does that create a media and online environment where if you have a voice in this space it becomes more important for you to say something.

Maybe it does.

Maybe some people feel that pressure.

Either way, I think that the counterweight, the kind of, oh man, there is this bad faith discourse out in the world is still discourse and that creates attention on a game that makes it seem more important to comment on it than it prior than it might have previously.

A great example of this over the past week, the uh Lords of the Help me out here.

>> Oh my gosh.

Uh uh yeah, Lords of the Fallen 2 getting in the news to say that there will be scantily clad sexy women that'll horn you up when you're playing your little souls.

Like I'm talking fully erect attention when you sexy women in a video game.

I can't what what >> and um and I'm sure you saw not that not to say it's untrue but not to say it's untrue at all actually but is there a kind of socially performative prerogative to kind of speak up and say I don't like this in a way that is representative of the cell.

>> Yes.

>> Certainly.

Yeah.

>> Yes.

And I Right.

So that's that's all we're that's that's all I'm kind of trying to say is that like that story became a story and it wasn't just because you had all of the anti-woke people going yay boobies.

It was because the yay boobies created a need for kind of like a counternarrative and that raises the popularity of a game in the general space just across the board.

>> Yeah.

Do you think which real quick by the way to clarify Erica Ishi is gender fluid?

Uh, okay.

I don't know if they're gonna come up again, but I figured might as well clarify that.

Um, but do you think that like part of the reason why whoever from the Lords of the Fallen team decided to come out and say that is because their trailer dropped uh and then it was kind of like, okay, not much to say about it.

Looks like, you know, another one of those games from this studio and then it was like, well, we need to have some sort of press about this.

let's get in the public and by starting a discourse about this.

Do you think that do you think it's like motivated or do you think it just happens?

>> Uh it's motivated.

Uh meaning is harder to monetize than discourse.

And I think that >> discourse creates clips and quotes and replies and and you know I I think that like uh platforms prioritize noise.

So, if you can create a little bit of discourse, all that does is give your game a higher footprint, a larger footprint on the internet.

Uh, what's that old adage?

All PR, all press is good.

>> All press is good press.

Yeah.

>> There you go.

That's I mean, that's it, right?

>> Yeah.

No, I I agree.

Um, it's infuriating.

I find it so frustrating >> and it really I think works uh in these games favor because >> you know arguing online feels like engagement and I think engagement will feel like belonging and I think if you can get people >> arguing about a game online you will create a an extremely valuable attachment and a fan somebody who is again this representation of the self once you start arguing in favor of something online.

This game is now important to how you kind of selfidentify.

It is important that you are the kind of person who is in support or against these kinds of things.

>> Do you think that is is the lesson for 2026 >> fla looking ahead is it like we need to have for a game to be remembered it needs to have the biggest discourse imaginable.

Do you think that's what the lesson is?

Because, you know, I look at I I am looking at the, you know, the best reviewed games of the year.

These games are all for the most part, a lot of them are on these, you know, end of the year lists and are are being remembered through the year, whatever.

But the ones that I'm like, oh my gosh, the ones that are always at the top of these lists are the ones that did generate the most discourse.

I'm looking at Clare Obscure, right?

I mean, like there were just so many different layers to it.

And you know, even, you know, I said like Holl Night Silk Song kind of came and went, but that is in my experience usually like the number two or number three on these lists.

And even though I'm saying like I don't think it generated a ton of like meaningful discourse, there were like multiple pieces of it, right, with the difficulty discourse and then also the like the um development team sized discourse which is pretty much just reitating what was talked about with Clare Obscure, but um you know what I Like like do you think that in the future not not I don't think it's necessarily going to be intentional but do you think that it is this idea that like hey you're going to be able to tell what game is going to be the most popular based on the size of the conversation that happened around it.

>> Yes.

>> Yeah.

>> Yes.

I mean I mean yes I I don't think that this is unlike how we got our most recent president to be honest with you.

I like I >> Yeah.

I I find this to just be a trend of the time that we live in.

Um it is a Yeah, please.

>> You know what's something something kind of interesting is I'm thinking about Destiny 2.

Uh because it's a game that I passively liked and and like I said, I'm going to make something about it at the end of the year here.

Um even though I didn't finish it, but I remember Hideoko Kojima talking about how and I don't know if this is true or not, but he did say this.

Um he said that that they had play testers come in and and you know give Destiny 2 a shot at a certain point and uh they all had a pretty even consensus on how they felt about it and he didn't like that and so he wanted to make it more controversial so he changed so they changed a bunch of stuff >> right >> um I I don't know if that's true or not >> um but I wonder if that sort of mentality was an attempt to make at a game that had a lot of conversation surrounding it.

And I wonder if the fact that um you know, in my perspective, in my circles and whatever, people are largely not talking about this game a whole lot.

I wonder if that is a measure of a potential like failure in design or failure in intent or something like that with with what they were trying to do with that game.

Do you know what I mean?

>> Yeah.

Yeah.

I do.

It's funny.

I think with that game in particular, it's it's such a funny one to try and connect the dots because did did Kojima say, "I I don't want this to be a game that is universally beloved because the thing that is so important to him is kind of this aura of being a weird misunderstood artist, a kind of person that is not, you know, once everybody loves you, you're commercial, baby.

You're mainstream." And that kind of I think goes against how he wants people to talk about him.

And I do think that largely that works for him because you do find in a lot of his work and when people review it there is this air of oh it's so weird.

It's co there's cojima weird stuff.

Not everybody gets it but I do.

And not everybody's af not everybody's afforded that.

>> And I find it interesting too with dashing too specifically because um >> first of all Kojima does like to just say stuff.

I mean, all of these people just say whatever they want, right?

But he's someone who I find to be uh do you remember when there was like rumors that Destination 2 was happening before it was announced and um he did a podcast with Jeff Keley of all people and they sort of just talked about it and they talked about how like it was the two of them being like, "Dude, all these freaking journalists online just just spinning tales." And Cojima said like, "No one's asked me if Desranding 2 is being made.

If if they asked me, I would tell them the truth.

I would say no, it's not." and then like six months later it gets announced.

So like obviously he's lying.

So like he could just say whatever he wants is what I'm getting at.

Um but >> don't you Isn't it kind of interesting though that if that's the perspective of like we are going to make a game that's going to be worth talking about and it's going to be really different and it's going to be controversial.

Um, it is going to be um a more traditional thirdp person shooter than Death Stranding one was.

And it is uh going to be a more traditional story about family and uh found family than maybe the first one even was, which was largely about that as well.

89 Metacritic.

Do you know what I mean?

Like like I kind of look at that I'm like, "Oh, wait.

If that was your goal, I do think that you created a game that is uh in a lot of ways kind of safer than the original one was." And part of that does come from the fact that it is a sequel and so it is going to be less like it's building off of what already exists and so by definition it's going to be less surprising and whatever.

But uh I don't know.

Do do you sort of understand like what what I'm poking at here?

>> Yeah.

I mean listen Death Stranding is such a funny situation because there there we could have a lot of different I think bespoke topics surrounding that the way in which that game uh was deployed this year.

And I think even when we talk about ultimately where it ends up with reviews, all I can really think about is just uh the kind of filtering out that happens with a sequel where the person who reviews Death Stranding 2 is the person who liked Death Stranding one.

>> Yeah.

Yeah.

>> And that, you know, that kind of self- selects a little bit how those reviews are going to end up as opposed to the first Death Stranding game which probably had more varied perspectives and opinions in in its reviews.

Right.

>> Right.

Because it was new.

It was new.

But do you think that that the fact that as you say and it it is true that like you have this self- selecting reviewers the fact that >> Cojima again said that he was trying to create something that was not >> safe and was not going to just be the exact same thing that people were expecting out of Destiny 2.

But the fact that >> these self- selected reviewers played the game and all generally seemed to like it um and it was not in fact a very controversial game.

Do you think that's a failure if again if that was the actual intention?

>> Uh it's tough, right?

Because it's it's I think what we're speaking to here is something that this whole conversation is about.

Whereas I I think the the discourse surrounding a game can function to make a uh an audience member either more generous or more antagonistic towards the game.

And I think that that comment, the I'm going to make a game that not everybody likes, that sort of general comment, actually serves to make the kinds of people who would review that game more generous to it because you want to be the kind of person who understands, who is on that level and sees the artistry beneath everything that Kojima does.

Um, and then so then this question of like is it is not this kind of controversial game.

It's not getting the sixes, the sevens out of tens that you might expect from what Kojima was describing.

Um, I think what that I don't think it's a failure.

I think what that does to me is instead it is evidence as to the he's like he was doing like a little PR for his cult of personality.

I think that's all that was.

>> I I agree.

Yeah.

And that's why, like I said, you know, he's free to say whatever.

He can say whatever.

He's gonna say whatever he wants to say.

>> Yeah.

>> Um >> Yeah, I think you're right.

Yeah.

>> But Yeah.

Yeah.

Just How does Donkey Kong Bonanza, that's a game that that came out.

That's another one of these games that came out.

Everyone's like, "You have to play it." Oh my gosh.

Nintendo's back, baby.

They're back.

>> I have it.

I have it.

Donkey Kong Bonanza is a game that you will not see discussed too much online.

You will not.

>> But we had an episode, our first episode of the Kirk podcast.

>> Yeah, we did.

>> Yes.

Where we talked about the weirdness of the Donkey Kong Bonanza reviews.

And I think it is in that episode and in our conclusions in that findings in that episode that you can find what the most tangible bit of online discourse about Bonanza was.

And then I think there in lies our answer to what we're investigating today.

Uh that episode was largely concerned with people tying that game back to to the want to the desire of a 3D Mario game on their new Nintendo consoles.

Yeah.

And yes, and I do think that that game kind of taking the space of a 3D Mario game allowed it to occupy a level of greatness, a of prestige, of importance that was not entirely justified by the content of the game.

And I think that that is the that is the context that shaped the conversation.

It's like this is Nintendo's big wouldbe 3D Mario and because of that it must be in our game of the year list.

It must be great.

Uh but I don't find a lot of meaningful discourse about what is actually great about that game and more what it means and what it represents for Nintendo to have released it now in this time.

Uh because when the next 3D Mario does come out, no, nobody's gonna no go by.

Everybody's going to go, "Oh, this is better than Bonanza." >> Yeah.

Right.

I mean, to me that it's a game that I I think feels very like >> very much like it's going to be tossed to the side the second that you know that that whatever new Mario game comes out.

>> Um yeah, just cuz it's it's it positioned itself sort of as or or maybe was positioned by people talking about it as like >> I mean, yeah, that is exactly what we we said in that first episode, right?

About just the idea of like it's not a new Mario.

All the reviews start by saying, >> "I know you want a new Mario.

>> Crazy.

>> This is not that." And it's like, "Okay, uh, or this is that or it, you know, it kind of is that." However, you know, whatever reviews said.

Um, but yeah, weird.

Weird.

I think something that I am coming to terms with about this year, not just across games, but across um just like our culture itself, is that I think this was the year that people more than ever outsourced their thinking.

And >> I'm thinking about that a lot in context with um AI of course.

And >> if I were to reframe the conversation that we're having here and because I think that there is a way in which somebody listening might think, wow, the discourse that Jake and Peter are talking about is a failure of the audience to properly interrogate the medium.

>> Yeah.

But I wonder if we can reframe this, if we can think about this in a different way, could we say that this discourse that we are observing that is um largely thin, could we say that this is instead a coping mechanism to a culture that needs structure to its abundance.

Um there are >> so many there are so many games we live in an era where it is more important than ever to have a take to have a position that what's happening here is that uh we are finding the quickest possible path to social meaning in a time in which personal meaning is harder than ever to extract.

So it's not that we are it's not that gamers are avoiding meaning.

It's that we are outsourcing it to so so then the narratives that do emerge do kind of like turn into we all land on these like big conversation topics rather than introducing something new, introducing something insightful.

We kind of have the lowest common denominator discourse and that becomes the identity for the game.

>> Yeah.

Because it's much easier to say, well, you know, I'm not homophobic, so I like so so Ghost of Yote is good than it is to interrogate what's going on with Ghost of Yote as a game, right?

Because because it's like, well, here's my take on the discourse, right?

Um uh it's much easier to say clear obscure was actually made by more than a hundred people or I don't know how many right than it is to say what is clear obscure actually saying about grief or lack thereof.

>> Yeah.

The question is not whether or not video games are being misunderstood.

I think the maybe the more salient question is whether the misunderstanding of video games in the environment we exist in now is the point.

Are we comfortable letting argument replace interaction, replace encounter?

>> Yeah.

>> And and I don't think, you know, obviously it is it is fine to have those conversations and and to to point those things out and talk about those things.

Those are important conversations to be had uh undoubtedly.

Uh that's kind of what we do on this show, right?

We talk about the way we talk about games.

Um, but it has been interesting in doing this show and like uh meaningfully trying to engage with gaming conversations because it has opened my eyes a little bit to the point to to see like, oh man, so many of these conversations are just so shallow and not about the games themselves.

And I would love I would love if 2026 was full of critical error episodes where we got to talk about games a little bit more and less about, you know what I mean?

If if the discourses were about like, oh my gosh, in Resident Evil 9 it switches between first person and third person and here's the discourse about that.

I I would love that.

I would welcome that gladly because then we get to talk about like the actual meat of a game and and talk about the way we talk about mechanics and stuff like that which I find to be significantly more fascinating than than looking at like uh than being like a is even that's I don't know uh my examples here are not good but what I'm saying is my hope is that we are able to shift away from as you say like replacing the thought of of engaging with the game with just like what is the take about the game?

>> The longer I sit with this, the more I I think that this conversation is maybe emblematic of an issue among the critic class more than I realized when I entered the conversation because I think that it is fair to say that critics are not guiding the interpretation of video games anymore as much as they are navigating preloaded meaning.

And I think you see that in so many reviews this year.

you see like the the the framework of the conversation like what we're supposed to be discussing has already been decided and then it dude the Metroid Prime 4 reviews like I you see how there is this kind of like I have to navigate this conversation within this very specific framework.

So I I obviously it's like the the the critic class has a specific space in like video game culture or whatever and it's maybe not as powerful as I would like to imagine it is but I think when looking at the art form it is >> important to recognize the critic's role especially for us and I think the conversations that we have here.

Yeah.

>> Yeah.

I hope people understand what we're getting at.

I I hope it's things where like >> um this is another one where I think >> you might be able to take us in bad faith if that's what you want to do.

>> Um >> but I I hope that people are are trying to meet us where we're at and understand what we're what we're getting at here.

Um I think we've made our our points.

I I think we've well articulated our points for the most part.

Um, but I just want to say if you're listening, thanks for being here and thanks for thanks for uh taking us in good faith because I think that's what um we are trying to to offer here.

>> Well, how do uh who do we who do we thank every week on the Critical Error podcast?

>> Why Jake?

>> Yeah.

>> Why we thank the members of the Critical Error Nation.

Uh, and specifically I want to thank the members of the critical error nation at the Jake and Peter tier of our Patreon.

That's patreon.com/critical error.

I want to thank Evan Pon.

I want to thank Renquir.

Maybe Renqua.

I don't speak French.

I'm not from Expedition 33.

I want to thank Anel Trait.

I want to thank Evan Snee.

I want to thank May row.

All of these people are at the Jake and Peter tier on our Patreon.

they have taken a uh a further step to say we want to support critical error.

We want to support the things that these two fellas are doing.

And I want to say thank you so much for uh uh supporting us here.

You know, we're we're getting to the end of the year here.

And it's it's been on my heart a little bit to think about, hey, uh these people are are tangibly supporting us and saying that they want more of what we're doing and and I appreciate that um so much.

But they're not the only ones doing that, Jake, are they?

No, they are not.

The $10 and up supporters of the critical error nation, who by the way, everybody that's at the $5 tier or up gets our bonus pods every single week.

And like you were kind of starting to say there, I would like to urge as we head into the holiday season and as we start the new year, if you wanted to start your new year off with a $5 up subscription to Critical Error, oh my god, I would love to see that.

patreon.com/critical.

I would love to get that email.

Give me a little holiday delight.

Not Not many viewers out there, you might not know, but right now in the midst of recording this podcast, we're celebrating Hanukkah, baby.

Hanukkah.

So, you've still got some days.

This is an 8 day affair.

You Christmas people, you don't even know.

That's one day.

You got to get that sub.

Dude, >> Christmas is one maybe two days if we're counting Christmas Eve.

Hanukkah, a week and some change.

>> That's right.

A week and some change.

So, you have an opportunity right now to get me a little Hanukkah present.

You wait till the sun goes down.

You go to patreon.com/critical error and I will know.

>> Oh my gosh, you did that for me.

>> Can I ask a question?

Can I just ask a a cultural question?

Is waiting till the sun goes down a thing that you do for Hanukkah?

Is that is that when you light the the is that the manora?

>> That's correct.

>> Oh my gosh.

>> Yeah.

>> Oh my gosh.

>> It's an exciting time.

>> Here's the thing.

Here's what's interesting about the the critical eration as a people.

Multicultural.

>> That's right.

>> Multi multi-religious.

>> Are you talking about between you and me?

Well, certainly you between you and I as one person who is Jewish and one person who's not.

That's by definition.

Um, but I'm talking about as the nation as a whole, >> we're welcoming you in.

Celebrate Hanukkah.

We're welcoming you in.

Celebrate Christmas in a in a religious way, in a in a secular way, however you want to do it.

Celebrate the new year, >> perhaps.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I don't know.

>> Well, see now, but now we've got something going on here where I'm going to take any past sundown Patreon subscription as a Hanukkah present.

But if I wake up Christmas morning and I see that we've got 12 new subscribers, I'm going to be A LITTLE HURT.

I'M GOING TO BE A LITTLE WOW.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

SO, IT'S IMPORTANT TO GET PETER A CHRISTMAS PRESENT, I guess.

>> No, no, no, no, no, no.

I think percentage- wise, right, of the population uh in terms of in terms of religious spread, it would make sense a little bit, right?

That that um just just in terms of the sheer number of although perhaps we we can appeal to a a the Jewish side of the game community, you know what I mean?

>> Welcome, please.

is fine.

Oh my god.

>> Need to know more about Judaism in order to make like slight funny little jokes.

Not joke, like not like poking fun at joke, but just like I was going to say some stuff, but I was like, I don't know.

Is that offensive?

I don't I don't have the cultural god >> understanding yet.

Uh we're going to get there cuz that's what we're uh we're building towards with the critical error nation understanding and the love of all people.

>> And if we want to get a third one out there, you know, my mom loves to do the uh three kings day.

Are you familiar with this?

>> Is this a Jewish thing?

I don't know.

>> No, this is a Latin like >> Oh my gosh.

>> An intersectional podcast is is what this is.

>> Yeah.

Yeah.

So, we we It's like January like 5th, I think.

You you put you put your shoes out and then there would be a little present in my shoes.

January 6th.

>> Oh, this is similar to um St.

Nicholas Day, which is a thing that I celebrate as as a Polish person.

>> Okay.

Um uh >> you know you know about this the three wise men they they put a little present in your shoes.

>> Oh I'm familiar with the three wise men bringing gold myrr and um >> oh my god >> frankincense.

>> Oh my god.

>> To little baby Jesus.

>> Wow.

>> Um though January 6.

That's a little dicey.

It's a little dicey.

>> Oh my god.

All right let's play the sound.

And by the way, yes, >> you were you were talking about Require or whatever, and I was like, "Oh my god, I'm going to find the the best copyright free kind of Frenchy music I can find, and I'm going to do the sound this week." Doing doing it in f in French, the best I can do.

>> Renquoire, this is for you.

Oh, thank you very much to Anel Trey, Evan Lee, Evan Pauls, Ranca, and Mero.

And of course our $10 supporters Connor True Love Andrew Boa Danny Disaster Cro Sam Ceda James Pierre Reed Jgo Richtor Jared Coeno Pepe Leu Sam Woods and Co.

I fear we've gone a little off the rails.

>> Uh yeah, this is going to be a tonal shift, huh?

>> Oh my god.

Okay.

So, you each and every week we prepare a pre-written piece.

This, of course, is your turn.

I have no idea what you have brought for us this week, but please, Peter, take it away.

>> So, before we get into this, I would like to I I have been told that sometimes my work, not any of the writing I've done on critical error, I don't think, but sometimes I've been told that my work uh can be a little triggering for people.

Um, and so I personally, if I were to hear this, I would not be particularly triggered by the things that are in this essay, but I would uh like to just give a heads up for a trigger warning of a discussion of depression and suicide.

Uh, but in a in a it's it's not like I don't know, doesn't matter.

>> In in case you choose to leave us here, thank you so much for listening.

We'll see you next here.

Yes.

Apologies if this is something you are not interested in engaging with, but um this is a personal essay that I have written here for you now.

I've been having a hard time plugging in the Christmas tree.

That's such a weird thing to come to grips with, but it's true.

My fiance works early, so I wake up alone every day, and I walk into the main room of our apartment to see our Christmas tree in the corner, lights off.

I look at it, then I leave.

For no reason at all, I find the thought of reaching down and plugging it in entirely overwhelming.

It's not the task, I don't think.

It's just that sometimes doing things for the sake of doing them makes me feel like I am dutifully adhering to some nihilistic ritual.

Why plug the tree in if I'm just going to unplug it tonight?

Why make the bed if I'm crawling back in in just a few hours?

Why shower?

Why leave the bed?

Why do anything at all?

Well, because it's nice to look at Christmas lights, man.

Just plug the damn tree in.

It's not that simple.

I don't think you get it, I say to myself as I pace around my tiny kitchen, circle the drain of the overwhelming weight of the passage of time, the weight of doing anything at all.

I'm not going to shower today because showering means I get my hair wet, which means it's not just a quick 10 minutes in and then I can start my day, but it's instead 45 minutes of having wet hair before I can put my headphones on and get to work.

But I woke up late, so that means I'm not getting started until like 10:00 and so I might as well just take the entire morning off and get started after lunch.

But I'm not leaving the house today.

The president's not coming over.

And even if he were, he's not invited in.

He's kind of a dick.

No need to shower, I say, lying to myself for the third day in a row.

I heard once that people get surprised that sometimes people get so depressed that they can't even take a shower.

It's kind of a regular thing for me, but sometimes I pretend like it's not so bad, like it's not some kind of sad warning sign.

Sometimes people get so depressed that they kill themselves.

My showering thing is pretty inoffensive if you ask me.

Keeps the water bill down for starters.

I forget to turn the heat on when I wake up.

It's been a cold December.

Last week, every day was sub 10°, but I turn the heat off at night since I can't afford to keep it going on all day.

But then I spend too long trying to figure out if I have the cognitive function to step into the shower or reach down to plug the tree in that I forget that I'm supposed to flip the switch and start the heat.

So, I just stand here in the kitchen paralyzed in a room that's 58°.

As I write this, I didn't shower today, but I'm planning on showering tomorrow.

I'm going to shower tomorrow after I plug in the tree and turn on the heat.

These nihilistic rituals send me spiraling.

I am often not good at handling them or taking care of myself, but well, I guess there is no but, but nothing.

That's just true.

I have a hard time with these sorts of things, but I am planning on doing them tomorrow, and sometimes that's good enough.

I'm telling you this now that I'm not going to have a handle on any of that stuff by tomorrow, but just doing it once has to count for something.

It's the first step in a reverse nihilistic spiral.

Or maybe it's just nice to look at Christmas lights, man.

Thank you, H man, you know, >> I know.

I don't mean to be a bummer.

I'm sorry.

>> I I I look forward every Wednesday to sitting down and recording the Critical Error podcast.

It's >> it's often one of the the best things uh going on in my week.

I look forward to it.

We talk for so long before we even record our bonus podcast >> cuz we're just we're just having a nice little time.

>> Yeah.

And it is um I think especially when things are not so good and there's a lot that we can kind of swish around in our bodies and make ourselves feel worse and worse, there is a medicine, there is reprieve in uh just this time we get to spend with each other and our friendship.

>> And I think um it's tough because I know I know this is out there.

I know it's out there for you.

I know it's out.

It's certainly out there for me and I know it's probably out there for a lot of people that are listening.

Um I more than ever in my life, I have been talking to people and they have been saying to me, "Man, I am just not in the Christmas spirit.

I'm not in the holiday spirit.

I'm not enjoying this winter.

This has been a harsh winter.

This has been tough." And that like, oh man, I don't know.

just like knowing that people I people I know are feeling this, knowing people that I love are feeling this, that that life is so hard for so many uh really weighs on me and it's hard to listen to.

It is it was it was hard to it was hard to hear all that because I think I just you know I just want my friends to be happy.

>> It's difficult, right?

And it's it's this thing where >> it's bad out there right now.

>> Yeah.

Right.

It's pretty it's pretty like you know no no no no two ways about it.

It's it's bad out there right now.

>> And sometimes I think that um to be totally like honest and vulnerable.

I think since the pandemic I have had a hard time sort of like >> um uh adjusting.

Um there's a line from a song I really like called Low Tide by a band called The Wonder Years where he says, "I'm exploding on re-entry." And I'm like, "Oh my gosh, that's how I feel about the pandemic, right?

About like coming back uh uh after all of that to just sort of like I guess that's just like a low-level worry forever now." And I have this thing where I'm like, "Why am I having a hard time concentrating?

Why am I having a hard time putting all this together?

Why am I having a hard time plugging in the stupid Christmas tree?" And it's like because there is so much stuff that's like weighing down right now all the time in every aspect of everything.

And it's like you don't even like subconsciously need to be thinking about it to feel overwhelmed, right?

And so I I hope that like in writing about this, my my intention is not to make anyone feel bad or to be like like uh uh to like remind people of that, but it's instead to just be like, "Hey, I'm going through this with this with literally plugging something into the wall." >> You know what I mean?

I'm like literally plugging something into the wall or or showering, which I know is is a thing that uh you know, care tasks are things that sometimes I struggle with, but it is it is true, right?

And and um it's not it's not I'm not bringing it up to be like, >> gosh, we all need to feel terrible, but it's to it's sort of the end point because I I wrote 90% of this and I was just like looking and I was like, what am I even supposed to say?

You know what I mean?

But like, oh, but but it's all fine.

Like, no, it's not.

>> I don't have a handle on this.

But I showered today.

I did show like today.

I wrote about that.

I wrote this last night and I was like, "Tomorrow morning I'm waking up.

I'm seeing Jake.

I'm going to plug the Christmas tree in and I'm going to take a shower." I know that sounds like so simple, but it's like it's tough sometimes.

>> There's a precariousness that I think pervades our current society or at least the people in my immediate circles that um I feel like like here's a here's a special kind of pain for you.

I I feel like at any moment I could get a text or a call on my phone that destroys my life.

>> Yeah.

>> Even if it never comes, >> I try to put that stuff to bed.

>> Yeah.

>> Um I >> the fact that that's what we >> I wrote about that that's in my Signalist video where I'm like I can't actually like think about this too much.

The idea of like what what if you've talked to someone the last time and you don't know?

Like I can't even think about it because it's too it's too big, it's too painful, it's too real.

>> Yeah.

Um, >> yeah.

I did this thing, you know.

Hey, this is what bonus pods sometimes turn into, by the way, if you're interested.

>> Yeah.

Yeah.

The bonus pod.

$5 up.

Patrons, please.

>> Uh, I do this thing sometimes where I convince myself that Elena, my fiance, has died and I don't know.

And so I've like I go through the entire I will spend an afternoon in grief >> and then she'll just come home and be like, "Hey." >> And I'm And she doesn't know she doesn't know that I have I I'm mourning her death now.

Do you know what I And it's it's like you got you can't do it.

You can't do that.

You have to put that to bed.

I'm sorry for ending it like this.

I said I I tried to write about something else and it was it was I was having a difficult time sort of articulating how I felt, but I was like I can write about this.

>> I think anybody still listening to the podcast at this point to be completely transparent is probably already supporting us on Patreon and is probably already part of the critical error nation.

So, um, just to address those people, I think in no uncertain terms, I I truly mean this.

I I'm getting a little emotional even queuing up the comment I'm about to make, but um I think largely it is uh our dream to be able to do this in a way that is stable and sustaining and in the simplest terms uh make this and a kind of a growing part of the growing this our jobs >> and the support that we've already seen from people that have uh encouraged us to keep doing in this and have encouraged us and made us believe in the thing that we are doing is meaningful and valuable.

>> Uh cannot cannot be stated and I and I think a lot of um a lot of my personal philosophy when I'm feeling down about anything is to practice a bit of gratefulness.

There are always things to be grateful for and uh I think just to get us out of this moment a little bit not to devalue or diminish what this moment has been.

I do just want to say uh how grateful I am for the listeners and supporters who are still with us.

>> Yes.

100%.

And whether you're you whether you're supporting us on Patreon or not, the fact that you're here means a lot.

And and I think that um to your point >> to get us out of this, there is light.

>> Of course.

>> Right.

Like there is light cuz Hey, here's something interesting about taking a shower.

It's really warm and nice in there.

>> Do you know what I mean?

Oh, yes it is.

>> It's really It's nice in there.

>> Yeah.

>> Um and and so thanks for being here.

Uh I hope you're I hope we're all doing okay.

I hope we're all having have I hope we all have a nice holiday for whatever you celebrate, whether that is Hanukkah with Jake, whether that is Christmas with me, um New Year's Eve, getting married.

I think it's going to be kind of fun.

Jake and I will take a picture together, I'm sure.

Just one one singular photo.

>> Just one.

And then and then and then we will continue to not talk because you know this about us we we don't talk outside of doing our podcast any any conversation >> could you imagine >> some people do that some people are like I will not talk to you unless it's content like >> as if I am not talking to you every hour of every day.

>> If I don't hear from you for an hour I'm like something's going on with Jake.

He's either having a busy day or something like something's up.

>> Yeah.

Um yeah.

Hey thanks for being here.

We'll catch you in the next one.

Bye >> bye.