Dating apps should be used like in the same way that fast food is.

I don't think you should say never ever eat fast food.

People have these like black and white views towards the dating apps.

I think they're great in moderation, and you need to be controlling the way you use them.

You can't just be on it scrolling mindlessly.

There's a time and a place for dating apps, and people should use them like when they make sense when they can't be out there socializing when they're really busy with work.

But it shouldn't be the only tool in their tool shed.

People are afraid to say, like I'm just tired of them.

People look at dating as it's like on off switch.

It's just like a part of your life.

Hang out with your friends who are in relationships once a month, join a fitness class, go out to eat once a week without your phone the app.

We have to realize the crutch.

We have to acknowledge who these apps were created for and buy because they're not for you.

Most people listening are pretty social people.

You can do it.

The number one health and well In the podcast, Jay Shetty Jay Sheddy Only shed.

Hey, Everyone, Welcome back to on Purpose, the place you come to become the happier, healthier, and more healed.

I'm so excited because today I get to invite into the studio two people that I've had the pleasure of getting to know over the last few years.

I've been on their show like three times now, and I always have the best time with them.

I felt like we hit it off immediately, and it's got more fun every time.

So it is an honor to have them on the On Purpose Studio.

I'm talking about Jared Freed and Jordana Abraham, the hosts of the hit dating and relationship podcast You Up.

If you haven't subscribed already, make sure you go and do that.

They break down the confusing, chaotic, and hilarious world of modern dating, which I know all of you need a lot of help with.

Jared is a stand up comedian and writer.

His work has been featured on Netflix and Comedy Central, and Jordana is the co founder of Betches, a digital media brand with a reach of over forty million across platforms and a leading voice on dating, self development, and modern relationships.

Please welcome to On Purpose, Jordana and Jared.

Great to be here.

Thank you so much.

We're so excited.

What an intro?

Yeah, I mean you do everything.

You do everything right, you know, Like I'm just sitting here listening to your intro.

I'm like, man, he's nailing it down, just as it down.

Like even when you introduce the podcast, like this is the podcast for you know, you tell people what they're listening.

I'm like, I feel like I'm in like a you know, a real professional.

Yeah, this is a pro is pro you know we are on a lot of podcasts.

This is a professional a p.

You guys are the tables of ten today.

This right, I get to quiz you and make Jared feel uncomfortable.

Right, That was always That's always my goal.

When you come on, I'm like, how can I get Jay?

You mess with him a little bit.

A little bit like and you nail.

It's just always a surprise.

I mean, he always knows how to how to take your annoying questions and turn them into uh and own them, to.

Own them, and then you turn them.

I've said this to many people.

I just I don't want to take over your show.

You are doing that.

I'm doing that right now, and your audience is like, I hate this guy.

He won't shut off.

Let Jay do his thing.

But I have to say what a great guy you are.

I cause I did this bit when you came on the show where I was like, Jay, can you give pep talks to people who are going through it?

And then I read this whole sad monologue my life and it wasn't me saying it was me and I but I was joking, but like you know, sometimes sad stories are meant to be funny.

And you took it and you were like, you are enough.

And then I texted you later that day.

You texted me first, hey man, had a great time, and just remember you are enough.

It's the sweetest text I have ever gotten in my entime.

I want to make sure it's on camera on a podcasts because I can't.

He's like this, they're gonna cut this right.

Give rid of that sappy shit.

Let's talk about dating.

Yeah, I just have to say, because I you know, sometimes you listen to people, you go what are they like?

Off camera?

That's like, the is truly the nicest text I've ever gotten.

Yeah, I'm going to send more of them.

Please.

It improved my whole day, Yeah, or month whatever.

I'm still talking about.

The feelings mutual.

You guys have been so kind of had me on three times.

We have the best time ever.

And I love the side of me you bring out.

I don't always get to show that.

I don't always get to show that fun and playful, energetic side on my platform.

So it's that's a part of me that I get to share with both of you, and so you give me an opportunity to do that.

But let's just feel that you always are game.

That's the thing, and I you know, we appreciate that so much because some you know, we talk about dating and relationships, which is like a very personal thing, you know, so and.

That's what we want to talk about today because my audience community, I've got groups of friends, I've got so many people who've written in, We've we've scoured the world to prepare for this podcast.

But the first thing I wanted to start off with is dating.

You guys know everything about it.

You're doing it, Jared, You're you're not doing it anymore, but as a part of your life.

What's your hot take on current dating?

Like, what's what's the take, what's the viewpoint that you think is surprising you right now?

That's different right now on dating.

I think the negativity that's out there right now while it's founded, Like you can always be negative about dating and you'll find a million people that will help you, Like you'll find a million people that will back you up and tell you how right you are for being negative about it.

But it's the least helpful thing for your dating life.

And it's not the thing that's going to get you on the first date.

It's not the thing that's going to make you a better dater.

It's the only thing that you can find other people to cheer you on for that actually makes your dating life worse.

Like, yeah, because I do these dating pep talks all the time, and it's a joke.

It's pointing out why that I heard a relationship and I heard this couple get in a fight.

And then I talk about how lucky you are to be single, and I point that out, and you see so many people that are just like it's almost like crazy to me that they never thought of it, Like being single is a good thing you're hopeful you're looking for to make your life better, you know, And I think all you hear about is maybe that you're doing it wrong, or do this, do that and it's like, whatever you're doing is fine, You're you, it's going to work out.

But I think the negativity that we see online, like that's easy to do because it's like biting a mosquito, but it feels pretty good, but it's not really helping you.

That's a great perspective.

I was just talking to my one of my producers.

She's in a long distance relationship, and she was saying, every night she goes home, right now, she turns on her favorite show and she just binge watches it and all of our reactions like oh okay, and she's like, I sit alone in the couch and she was like, but actually, this is the last time I'm ever going to get to do this, so I'm loving it like that mindset, actually, oh wow, Like this is the last time ever.

It's just going to be me on my couch binge watching whichever show I want and looking at it positively rather than the negative of that.

And I think that's you're so right, and I want to dive into that, but I want to hear jor Donna's first.

Yeah.

I think going off of that, I think you know, we talk about like you know, no one wants to hear diet and exercise for like, you know, fitness or losing weight.

But like, I think that I totally agree with Jarr.

I think the diet and exercise of like dating is really like going into anything you're doing in the dating space with a good attitude and then having a full life outside of dating, so it's not the only thing that you're focused on.

Because I do think attitude is like seventy percent of it.

Like, I think it's such an underrated part.

I think so many people think if I just keep going on more dates, more and more, and I'm kind of there, but I don't want to be there.

I'm in a negative mindset.

I'm on the apps still.

I'm so annoyed.

I'm still on the apps.

You become you.

Go on the dates and you think you're actually trying, but you're you're bringing not like a fun, exciting version of yourself that someone would want to date, someone with a full life, someone who just thinks someone would add to their already great life, and you're kind of expecting someone to fill in what's missing.

And I think that's really what holds people back, and they don't even realize they're doing it and.

When you're holding back, like more on that, just like when you're holding back and you're being negative, like you're not being your full self, so you're not even bringing people into your world like you want.

And we're not this like woo woo podcast, but we're not there telling like there's nothing more annoying than like cheer up from your married friend.

Oh, you'll find it when you're not looking.

It's like GoF you know, like that's not that's not advice, that's not helpful.

But it's like the minute you give into like I got this great life, I'm looking for someone to make it better.

I'm not looking for just anyone, then you start to have taste, you know.

And that's something where people are so afraid to even like admit they go, I'm confused.

That's what you hear from people dating.

I'm confused.

No, you're turned off.

Change the wording.

Now it's powerful.

Now you have taste.

Now you have ownership over like, oh I do like and dislike things.

I am looking for certain things in a partner, like you know, living your full life.

Like when you say these are the things I do, you're willing to have someone go I don't do that, and you can go good, get out of here.

Yeah, yeah, I like that.

So let's apply that to what everyone's saying right now, where there's this mass fatigue around dating apps.

You both hear it more than anyone of course, where every other person you speak to is just like sick of the ed dating apps.

I'm tied of the dating apps.

I hear it all the time as well.

How do you then apply that to the fatigue around dating apps?

So when people are saying to you, hey, I'm exhausted, you're not saying cheer up?

What do you say?

I think are you saying?

I mean, I think dating apps should be used like in the same way that fast food is, like, oh tell me.

I don't think you should say never ever eat fast food.

You know it's going to ruin your life.

And I think people have these like black and white views towards the dating app.

I think they're great in moderation, and you need to be controlling the way you use them, just like anything else on the internet, just like Instagram or TikTok, Like you can't just be on it scrolling mindlessly.

You can't just be on it swiping mindlessly.

I think there's a time and a place for dating apps, and people should use them like when they make sense when they can't be out there socializing when they're really busy with work.

But it shouldn't be the.

Only tool in their tool shed because just like with fast food, if you eat it all the time, you're gonna be sick.

You eat it on a road trip every.

Now and then, that's fine, you're like an indulgent have a great time, But like, don't make that the only.

Make that in your entire lifestyle.

Yeah, and we have to like acknowledge that.

Like I think people were afraid to say, like I'm just tired of them, Like you hear that.

But like if you went to McDonald's every day, If you went to fast food every day and someone was like, yeah, I've eaten, uh, you know, fast food every day for the last week.

I'm tired of it, you would go, yeah, you should take some time off of that.

Yeah, like you would.

We wouldn't look at that person go, well, you're not trying to stop going for fast food.

Like people look at dating as it's like on off switch.

It's just like a part of your life, and I don't know, it's just it's we like right now, I'm doing We've we've said on the podcast we're doing a summer challenge.

Okay, okay, here's the summer challenge.

Delete the apps.

You're doing it too, I'm doing it too.

I'm single.

Deleted all the apps.

Okay, this is for June July August.

And how many apps is that for you?

Seventeen?

No I I was on one app at the time.

Deleted it.

Okay, June July August.

That's the promise, okay, okay, And then what's your plan?

The plan is h hang out with your friends who are in relationships once a month.

Okay, make one plan a month with like Jordana and her and her husband, my brother and his wife.

Make a plan with someone who's married or in a relationship.

Then join a fitness class, do something different, do a different fitness class, whatever it is.

Go out to eat once a week every Wednesday, without your phone, put your put on your own, put in your pocket, put your phone in your pocket.

Look up.

Because we're kind of like addicted to these things, like the app, we have to realize as a crutch, it was made by male nerds to try and be social.

If you think about it the app.

You never get dumped on an app, You never get broken up with.

You never hear a no.

It's swipe left, that's a no from you.

Swipe right.

You either get a match right away or you get nothing.

And when you get nothing, what is your brain go?

I guess they haven't seen me yet.

That was invented by someone who didn't want to go up to someone in public and experience public failure.

So we have to acknowledge who these apps are created for and by, because they're not for you.

Most people listening are pretty social people.

You can do it, but you but sometimes we need to like create these little games like we're doing with this like challenge to get yourself out there because the phone is so addictive.

So like I go to dinner on a Wednesday, I sit at the bar and I look up.

That's it.

I'm not promising you a boyfriend, like nothing going by the way, that's its great, great, I have conversations, I have stories, I have experiences hanging out with your married friends.

That is the that's the answer.

Because and I speak from the guide perspective on the podcast, like of course, but I'm like I speak for myself.

We talked about not saying this anymore, but we say we're not experts.

Okay, no one's a dating expert.

We are.

I'm just an expert my own fear flings and my own experiences.

So when I talk on the show, like I was thinking of, like, we have so many women who their response to, like, hang out with their married friends is like, they don't know anybody.

They oh, my friend's husbands.

They don't know any of their friends.

They don't they never have a guy.

For me, it's like, first of all, don't hang out with your married friends to get something from it.

Hang out with your married friends to hang with them and have a good time and be you okay.

And if you do that, what you want from that experience is for the husband to go, oh yeah, Jessica's pretty cool.

That's all you want.

Why does Coca Cola still have ads?

So you think of Coca Cola the first drink when you need a soda, that's same thing you want to make yourself Coca Cola's to your married friends, because that husband does know people.

Yeah he is talking, yeah, but he meant we don't care about dating and relationships.

That's why men don't listen to our podcasts.

You know, like right now, you all see Cola right right, right.

Right, they're going, oh, I guess I haven't thought of them lately.

But if you make yourself the first thought in their brain when cool chick comes up, because it's gonna happen.

But that's the thing.

So when I hang out with like my brother and his wife, and you know, I'm doing that with his wife, but my brother, you know, my brother is my brother.

But like you know, if I go hang out with Jordana and her husband, like he's gonna you know, he comes across.

I'm the first thought on it.

Why we'll see.

He's thinking about it everything.

And these are like the things that don't go viral on you know.

You know it's a great point, you know, negativity goes viral, Salacious stories go viral.

Not hey, go out with your married friends right right?

Loose ties?

Where do we get that from?

Meg something?

Sorry our last name right, But we've we've you're our podcast.

We've just collected all these experiences that we hear, the the voices of so many people and how they're going through it.

And I'm not doubting that it's hard, but it's that's also the fatigue element.

Dating apps just get you more, not better.

More.

It's more intros which are good, more breakups, more, more disappointment, you know, more conversations.

If you had more conversations a day, you're gonna find more annoying people a day.

So of course you're going to have more stories that are negative.

Yeah, So that the fatigue is really you know the yeah, the numbers of it all.

Yeah, I can't remember the exact math, but Tim Ferriss had broken it down.

He was like, for every one hundred people, there's like fivests one psychopath And so when you have like a million follows, you're going to have you know, the same percentage of psychopaths.

It's the same on a dating app.

If you yeah, like I think I use sweet and low in my coffee.

It's like the strongest sweetener.

Everyone's going to tell me that I'm going to have a heart attack and I'm going to die.

I'm okay with that for a sweeter coffee, I'm okay.

But it's you know, dating apps are like sweet and low, Like you're gonna it's really gonna hit you, you know, going to a bar and trying to meet someone new is like putting sugar in your drink.

It's not gonna you're only gonna get You're gonna need a lot more sugar.

Yeah, so it's gonna it's gonna be a better quality drink.

And if you said this, it's like, no, you don't need dating app in the summer.

No, right, you don't need in the summer.

Right, you are out in the summer, you're taking vacations the summer, you're hanging with friends in the summer.

Yeah, hence you're doing the challenge.

Now that's why I'm doing the challenge.

I mean, what's the complete challenge laid out again?

So the summer dating challenges.

Delete the apps, just get off them.

We'll come back in September.

Yes, it doesn't have to be forever.

No, it doesn't have to be forever.

You can never eat McDonald's the end of the season.

You got to wait for the next season.

Wait for the next season and see how it goes.

We've tried the apps, you hate them.

So let's try something.

No, go to dinner once a week by yourself, phone in pocket, don't take out your phone.

Make it a challenge to yourself.

Go to a new fitness class, just because that gets you out and active and doing something new.

Hang out with your married friend and their husband, married friend and their wife once a month.

Make a plan.

It doesn't have to be a vacation, doesn't have to be anything crazy, just hang out with them and have a good time.

And I do think the feedback I'm going to give is like, if you come to me and go, well, I didn't work, I think you've looked at it the wrong way.

And we're on a wellness podcast, we can think of the intrinsic value of hanging out with your friends.

I hope the listenership can understand that sure, because with dating, some people go where's my boyfriend?

And I go, you don't sound like someone I would ever want and date.

Right.

Well, then again, at the at the end of the at the end of the challenge, you go back on the apps, and you're a more invigorated, more energized person yourself.

Who's not.

Who's not saying hey as they're opening line because you're more you know, you're you're putting more energy into the interactions that you are having.

Yeah, I do that like once a week, like once once every two weeks.

I've mentally been so disciplined and focused on work, working, eating right, all the rest of it that I need a day where I don't care.

And so usually Saturday night is that day.

I have this.

There's this.

I have no idea how this place.

I don't want to know.

I don't want to get them sued, but I don't know.

I have no idea how this place exists.

There's this place in La called Mister Charlie's.

It is vegan McDonald's.

Go outside, it looks like McDonald's.

They have an upside down frown.

They have a smiley fing like from the outside it's yellow and red like.

It literally looks at McDonald's.

I as someone who grew up going to McDonald's, but now I'm vegan.

I don't eat meat.

Have been searching for vegan McDonald's my whole life.

I've now found it.

And the fries taste the same, the chicken nuggets taste the same, the mayo tastes the same, the lettus taste the same.

So Saturday, usually once every two weeks, I will eat chicken nuggets, fries, burger, whatever it is.

But it's that feeling of like come Monday morning, I'm reinvigorated to work out again.

Exactly.

Yeah, I have my discipline again because I've allowed my brain the space to go there.

Yes, and you probably enjoy it so much more than if you had it.

If you had it every day, you wouldn't feel great.

Yeah, exactly right.

One thing, I've been getting a lot there, And this kind of comes from the point that Jared was talking about.

Right now, I have so many single female friends that I think are amazing, yes, that I'd love to introduce to good men.

And now it's hitting me right now that I've not thought of Jared before.

So now now I need to change that up.

And yeah, I've got it.

Like you weren't friend of mine, you weren't color for me.

I messed up.

Yeah, but I feel like I have at least let me think I have at least three to five female friends, yes, who I think are awesome, like genuinely think are awesome.

They're they're like, oh yeah, she's really cool, right, Like, they're smart, they're thoughtful, they're beautiful, all the rest of it.

And I actually struggle to think of single men I know, and that's not what I'm not saying, that they're not good men out there.

I'm saying, I don't know many single men.

As a married man, I think most of my friends are married or in long term commit relationships and they're just struggling out there as well.

What are you seeing from a woman's perspective, Because to a lot of them, what they're experiencing is we're strong, confident, ambitious women, and a lot of men are intimidated by that.

Yes, I think this is a conversation where I'm seeing all over the place now.

I think it's like a very it feels like a very hot hot topic now to kind of look at the available single women, I totally agree with you.

I know so many amazing single women.

I really don't know that many.

I only know one amazing single guy.

No, I really don't know that many otherwise.

And I do think part of it is women are much more likely to want to date men who have the same education levels as them or higher, or make the same amount of money of them as higher or higher.

And I think men are not necessarily looking for that.

So I think there's a bigger pool for men of women that they'll be interested in.

So I do think women I don't want to I don't like the term dating up or dating, you know, but I think like when you just look at objective things like education or money, a lot of women don't want to date people who are less educated or have less money than them.

To add on to this, I'm sorry to interrupt.

The men go by one thing.

Am I attractive?

Yeah?

That's it.

That's the checklist right, well, and also that means that could be that's infinite, right.

What you're talking about is a checklist that women do.

Are they safe?

Are they educated?

Are they they have the ability like?

Are they a good work or are the good death?

These are all things that they're thinking about, like.

And there's right, and there's fewer I think men who meet that criteria for women who are maybe I don't want to say more selective, but are just looking at things in a different way.

And I think, as opposed to how things were twenty or fifty years ago, more women are college educated than men.

Women are making more money than they.

Ever have before, and so I think the pool, especially as you get older, of men who are at your level or higher, if that's what you're looking for in terms of like those things, is just smaller.

So I think it just becomes like a numbers game.

And I don't know if the solution is for people to be more open minded, or if the solution is you know what I mean, or because I think there's still a little bit of a double standard around a man who makes less money than his wife or a man that has less education than his wife.

So I think that I mean, I would hope that as the times change, people are a little bit more open minded in both directions.

And I think also, like we do this all the time.

We've talked about this, where are the single men?

And like you just said it, I've said this a million times, I don't know even as a single man, like I'm not a single guy, right, I don't even know where they would be, Like I actually it's become like kind of a joke on the show of like where are these guys?

Because if there's all these women.

But also this dating and relationships is a topic for women, they get together to talk about this.

This is something that men just don't generally get it together and talk about, so it might not be as you know, in the.

I think for me, you know, like's I think dating and relationships seems more like a priority for a lot of women just societally, they've been told that that's something they should be thinking about from you know, twenty one years old, is like what their future is and who their husband's going to be and what they're getting.

I don't think men are given that pressure.

If a man goes home for the holidays, he's asked about his job, he's asked about what's going on at work.

He's not necessarily most of the time being asked about who is dating.

I think that's a question that women are getting a lot more and that they're much more invested in finding a partner than a lot of men are around, at least men in a similar age group.

So wait, Jared, you were saying you don't have lots of single guy friend No, that not at all.

Oh that's the thing, Like I'm not rolling with a group.

Like when you hear a woman get broken up with like the first thing that like a lot of their friends do.

They're like, I know these other single women, like they'll try and like fix them up with single women to go out with.

They're like their new Miranda carry, you know, Samantha Crew.

I've never even heard of that for a guy, Like, oh, you got to meet my other guy friend and even you were like, hey, because I moved to Delray Beach, I'm in Florida and Jordana.

I was like, oh, my friends live down there.

Do you want to like hang out with friend?

Right?

Do you want to have a friend?

I was like, no, I don't want a friend.

I want to go be lonely at a coffee shop and look at the sun.

You know, like I you know, like I don't want like And it's weird because that's my initial reaction.

We want friends, but.

Like the friendless men right there.

But I have friends.

But I swear I got friends, you know, Like I sound very defensive, but like I don't know, like I've thought about this, Like it is the one thing where I'm like, the numbers aren't this off?

Yeah, but I don't know because I even like my college friends mostly married, you know, a couple of divorces in there, high school friends.

I got a lot of those still mostly married.

Yeah, but I don't really you know, I'm forty, I'm single, and we just we just don't hear from you know, like you know, I I I know I'm not alone.

Yeah, No, I was.

I was doing a couple of guys I know who probably yeah late there, his early forties as well, and they were single, and I sent them a couple of pictures of certain girls that I know that friends of mine that are looking and you know, all that kind of stuff, and it was like immediately it was the point that you said, immediately he was like, nah, she's not you know, not for me, not for me.

And it was an attraction thing, but it was so like instant.

Right, whereas a woman will say, like, tell me more about.

It hotly, right, Yeah.

And it was also like I wouldn't necessarily say that he was out of her league.

He just felt he had more choice.

Listen, let me well, I'll go back and talking about right, because I don't think that's why men are saying I have all these choices.

Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors.

Thanks for taking a moment for that.

Now back to the discussion.

Like, I think that's something that's easy to like put on single men, to like hate on that.

No, so I'm asking I would say that.

I mean, I've said this on the show many like guys, there's a pro and con, there's there's life is gravity right.

The thing is a guy will not go out with you unless he's attracted to that's just no, no other questions, just like your friend.

It's that black and white.

I'm saying attracted or not?

Or is it like's I don't know, there's it is.

And men are like, be I see the we see the outline of a woman.

We go yeah, like the idea of like will it matter if I wear you know these types of socks.

No, men don't even notice.

We just see im.

I'm attracted to that thing.

And so like when when the guy says he's like, no, attracted, not going, that's that's a good thing because you're not on All women can understand that.

If you're on a day with a guy, if he left the house, you know one thing he's attracted to.

That's a beautiful thing too.

If you think of it that way, you go, I got one thing out of the way.

If I'm on a day with a girl, I don't know why she's there.

I don't know if she was forced, she thought she should, if she didn't go, she's not trying.

That's a great way, you know, Like I don't know, Like I don't know if I could get married a woman.

Then out on our wedding day, She's like, at first I didn't think he was anything.

I was nice, you can get a foot in the door.

Right, Well it's nice and it's bad, Like I don't want to hear that.

My wife at first was like, oh, you know, like but that happens.

You know, look at the our story page for all these women getting married.

It's well, at first I wasn't into him, and then he came over to me and he touched me with his clammy hands, and then I was like, oh, I guess maybe I'll go on a date.

Like it's all this like horrific tale about how this guy like magooed his way into this woman, and it's like, that's nice for her.

That's a fun marvel, you know story to tell like your your you know, your beginning.

But like, well, I think women are also more like I can work with this, right even if someone is not.

I think women are more open to dating men who aren't exactly the perfect way that they want them to be.

As soon as they meet them.

I can change what they wear and I can well.

Well yeah they're you know, they can, yeah they can, they can.

They can work with this or they cannot.

I don't think men are thinking that, and in some ways that makes men more romantic.

They're like, I'm not even if I don't like you just as you are, I'm not going to commit to you.

And women are like, if I like the bones, I can work with them.

But it's that age old idea of men don't want women to change, right, but they will, and women want men to change, but they won't.

Exactly.

It's that balance of right.

Men are just I mean, like we always hear about like the Disney Princess or like how the Disney Disney movies convince women they're going to find a prince charming, and that is very true.

There's a male version of that, you know, where men have been told in every Coming of age movie that this this woman is just going to show up and she's into video games and she's cool and she gets it.

Every Coming of age movie is some chick who's like, ah, like given guys crap, and like she's like this dream version and you're kind of told and this guy falls in love, so you're kind of told that like someone's gonna come along there all of a sudden, you're gonna get it, and you're gonna want this monogamous lifestyle.

And you know, I don't think either is fair, you know.

And but the looks thing, it's everyone has a type, everyone's into something.

There's a butt for every seat.

I mean, I always say this sounds gross, but like everyone's someone's foot.

Like there's men out there masturbating defeat, you know, And there's so many men masturbating feet that there's a hyperlink on the porn sites that take you directly to feet.

So someone's foot ugly is not even like hot or attractive.

It is not even a thing, right, But I'm saying that I don't think that it's yeah, it's not like I don't think the key to doing well in dating is being hot.

I think it is really about your attitude and like again, how happy you are.

I think a happy person, And like again, there's gonna no matter what you look like, there's gonna be someone who's attracted to you.

But I think if you are, if someone someone could be attracted to you physically, and you could go on the date and you bring a bad attitude and you seem unhappy with your life and you seem unhappy and you seem like you're burnt out just from being there, and your feeling is like he's not Oh, he's not even gonna text me again.

Like I think that that is self sabotaging.

But you feel that, like I listen, Jordana took my disgusting speech I made.

It's not a lot better I I it is.

You feel that on a date.

I go out on a lot of I've been on dates with women who are like the I've had a woman like and then you got to like turn into a clown.

You gotta be like no, not got you got your got your got your ear, like, got your nose.

Like you have to like try and make them cheer them up a little bit, to like go, hey, we're gonna be on a date.

That's not going to be disgusting and horrible.

You know.

So you can feel when someone's like I've seen it all and it's hard to.

Get and even if you feel you have, the point is to have the attitude that you're trying to right even if you have.

Been and you can't tell someone to do that, like we can talk about it for days, like you got to figure that out.

Well.

I think I think the challenge is going back to the Paul about being attractive.

We think being attractive means being attractive to everyone, right right, We only feel hot if everyone thinks we're hot.

The reality is, no one feels that way because not everyone's going to find you attractive, no matter how wherever you are on the spectrum of it, or however you feel about it.

It's the fact that if someone can go out there, be confident, put the best version of themselves out there, you're giving the person who actually finds you attractive the chance to do that.

We've all met people who are attractive that turned us off with their attitude totally.

That's like massive.

I mean I think we've met people that were like maybe borderline attracted to, but seems so happy and so confident and so happy to be there.

Yeah, that it makes them more attractive.

I think that there's really like you can't really quantify that, but it definitely I'm sure it could sway you too.

Oh, someone who you're.

Attitude, because attitude is everything.

I mean, like you get there and you're like, oh my god.

Again.

To go back to like the you know, the coming of age movie, the chick who gets it, you know, you go, oh my god, and she's cool and it's fun, and it's like, you know, you go, oh my god, everything's here, as opposed to being on a date where it's like, okay, you know, show me you're not a dick, right, and you're like, okay, I've seen this before, you know, like I'm not going to be the one that because what happens is if someone's miserable on a day, you're like, if I do make this person happier, Now I've made promises to them, you know.

Now I've you know, love bomb them or like not even I'm not saying you do that to cheer them up, but you go, now you've like put on a performance myself, Like I'm performing I'm not even getting to be the real me here because I was just spending the whole time trying to get this person to be happy, and now I've faked it.

Yeah right, you know I was just gonna say.

I think that also, that attitude thing also helps you once you're in a relationship.

I think everyone thinks like, okay, once I like lock it down, then it's over.

But relationships are their.

Own level of work, and I think the best relationship advice I've ever seen is that if you look for what's missing from your partner, if you look for what they're not doing, what they could be doing more of, that's like they're going to be the reality that you're living in.

If you're looking at what they're doing well, what they do better than everyone else, Like you're going to feel really lucky and you're going to feel really happy.

So I think attitude just brings you, not even when you're single, but once you're like in the relationship, once you're like working through that, once you're changing into a relationship that's a long term marriage or just a long term relationship.

I think that's the attitude is something you really need to keep working on and always be trying to be in a place of looking for what's working and looking for what's good, whether it's your own life or your partner.

Yeah.

I think this alpha male high value woman conversation on TikTok Instagram podcast has put this pressure for women to think, you've got to look like a model, right, You've got to look great in these clothes, without clothes whatever.

Right, there's that pressure for women, and the pressure on men is you better be earning multiple six figures, you better drive an amazing car, you better have a great future, and everyone's looking at both of those things, going I can't live up to either of them, right right?

Right?

Do you see that?

Or the beauty of being a man is that I don't think And this is where I feel lucky, is that when it comes to dating, maybe I'm not making that money, but I can.

I don't think I have to like do the right thing by other men.

Like I never feel judged by other men for how I date.

And I think when we hear from women that are dating, they're always wondering, am I doing it right?

Is this the right text?

Is this the right way to go?

And it's almost like who are you asking?

Who's to say?

And I think when it comes to those conversations of like you know who we answer to, like I don't feel the pressure with relationships, you know, I can feel it from the other side of like, hey, what should I wear for a first date?

You know?

Like when we get that question, like they're asking us as if we know we're doing you know, Like again it's like what should we wear for their dates?

What do you say?

Whatever makes you feel comfortable and confident?

And that's again to what Jordana said, the diet and exercise of answers, like no one wants to hear that.

Yeah, well, but you have women that write in about this and you're like that comes from a place of like, please tell me I'm doing this right right?

People want rules.

I think people want like the secret sauce, the formula, and really it's about you and what works for you.

And that's again like a less flashy answer, but that's that's the truth.

There is no one way that everyone should act.

There's no one kind of person that everyone should be interested in.

It's like about what makes you the best version of yourself and everyone is a different person.

Every time I hear someone say the phrase high value, I'm like, that person is screw there's awful, unscrewed.

They're thinking of the wrong thing.

But think of the Internet, I think.

And that's that's the issue I think with modern dating.

Modern and it's why it's so hard to sort of like appreciate the things about your partner that you really love because you're seeing your scrolling all the time and you're seeing someone else's partner.

So you say, I think of the pooky and jet thing like someone else's partner surprised them with this bag, or someone else's partner is taking them on these crazy dates, and it's and you look at your partner and you're like, where's my crazy date, Where's my like spontaneous surprise trip.

And I think that again, you're not even thinking about has that even something I want?

Is that even something that works for me?

You're just constantly comparing.

And before you really didn't get that.

You didn't get like the behind the scenes of every single couple's highlights of like the best moments that they have to other.

No one's putting their fights up, no one's putting the like stupid argument that they had before bed on the internet.

So you're not seeing what's not working for other people until you see the divorce post and then you kind of go through the back.

That's true at the back.

Yeah, it's like it's almost like twenty five years ago you spoke to less people, right, you knew them really deeply, yes, and today you were exposed to more people, but you know them in a really shallow surface way.

And so if you had four friends, you knew who was on the verge of divorce, who is having a tough time because you all opened up and you were helping each other out with their problems, whereas today you're seeing someone who just took that trip for content, like it wasn't Yeah, it wasn't even a trip, it was content and they went away and they got this sponsor trip.

And now it's like, oh, that husband does spontaneous stuff whatever it may be.

Right, then you think there's something lacking in your relationship when there's not.

You're only again, you're only seeing this one side of it, and you don't really know these people that well, you.

Do want messaging then, and people asking you what messages should be right?

How much are you hearing about people getting chat GPT to write their messages back?

And how how are you both feeling.

More and more?

It's crazy, It's it's funny because again this goes back to I want to be right.

I don't want to do this wrong, So let me go to chat GPT and it will tell me an answer that I don't have to think about it anymore.

Well, listen, I think that there's some merit in chat GBT and helping as a tool like anything else, Like I don't think if you, I don't think you should use.

It, not even read it and send it.

But I think it's like we did an episode where we did per someone writes in their breakup text they're texting someone after three dates to say they're not interested, and then we have chat GBT write the same text.

Chat gbt's is better.

Not a bad job?

Yeah it JD.

It's a little more mature, it's a little well it's is it as personal?

Probably not.

I think you should edit there thing, But I think if it can help people act like a nicer, better member of society, or at least give them somewhere to start, I'm.

Okay, you're a fan of it for breakups.

I wouldn't want to be told to ask for a divorce with chat GBT.

But I think you know, if they read the first draft and then someone else edited it, I mean.

Well, the thing we have to admit to is that we've been doing a version of chat GPT from the minute dating apps started.

Listen, when you're texting, you are writing your own script.

You are being the person you would like to be.

That's not you on the fly, that's not you on improv in the moment.

How many times have you been in a conversation or an argument, and then you went home and you go, I wish i'd said that.

I wish you never do that about a text text.

You go, you say exactly how you want to say it, the way you want to say it.

The reality is and what our podcasts we always say, we want to make you a better buyer.

We're not going to fix dating.

I get put in the position of speaking for men, and it sounds very icky.

I'm letting you know exactly what a man is feeling because I'm ten percent away from the guy you're dating.

So I'm telling you what's going on in his head.

It's up to you to like take that information and do the best you can and waste less time.

So this goes to like the texting and chat GBT and like, listen, if you want to blame chat GBT for your relationship problems, it's just the truth.

Because right now you're texting with someone who's googling the movie that you said you loved yeah, or.

The quote that you said that they didn't fully understand.

Right, They've been doing that since day one.

Send me a movie quote that makes you laugh every time.

If you add none off the top, of your head, but you thought they were hot.

I'll go find a movie quote, you know, Like that's just the that's just how it's going, you know.

So all this is to say, like chat GBT or someone googling what to text you, you got to get in person, right, Well, you've got to have a date.

It's like the same advice that we have for the apps.

It's like the apps and chat GBT, they're both tools.

Should you be exclusively communicating with chatgibt?

Should you be exc lusively only dating on the apps?

No?

Is it something you can use when it makes sense?

Yeah?

Right, or at least to help.

How quickly have you realistically seen people move from the apps to an inpressent date.

How quick do you like it to be and how quick is it realistically?

I hate when someone's trying to game the app.

So if someone matches with me and they go, let's skip the small talk and go on a date, I don't want to date that person.

That's my because because I don't want to waste my time out.

We're on a dating app, because that gets you the first few conversations that make you excited for the day.

You're trying to reflect that right, it's a verifying process.

But when people say that, I'm like, what's the catch here?

This was so easy for you to go out?

How much time?

How much do you value your day?

You don't value your day?

Why would I want to go out with you?

But the problem is someone always is going to come in and go well, I hate pend pals.

Yeah, but that's not a good answer.

That's the answer is nuanced and gray.

If you're texting for six days before a plan is made, yeah, that's a lot long.

That's too long for me.

For me, But like, I don't know what someone needs to feel safe.

I don't know what someone needs to feel excited.

You should feel safe and excited.

That's that's the two rules I would give to someone to go on a first day.

Do you feel safe?

Are you excited?

Yeah?

And so however long that takes?

How long does that take?

That's that's that's not up to me to say.

I peasant saw you and felt safe and excited.

Indn't that night and said.

Or they wanted to screw me over and steal my you know my identity.

You feel safe and excited, but can.

You pay for my oil change?

We've gotten that you've gotten that.

You know what, We've gotten messages where you know the guys is I'm so excited to you know, I had such a great time.

I'd love to go out again.

And then the woman replies me too, would you mind paying for my oil team?

Right, you're gonna meet crazies, you know, like this, This is what happens.

You put yourself out there.

You gotta play in traffic.

You want to get hit, and sometimes you get hit by a.

Yeah, you know, so that's a story.

You know you've lived, right exactly, they tell the tale.

It's a great story.

But dating the idea of like when should you?

How should you?

We are not here to say like I I think that if anyone's trying to tell you they are four rules for dating or you know, you should never this, I think they're trying to sell a book.

You know.

We did this to make light and have fun about a subject that dating.

For some people, it's they're killing it everywhere else and this is the hardest thing in their life.

That's crazy.

And I when I first started talking about dating, like as a guy, I didn't realize the gravity of it for some people.

For me, it was always fun and I mean that should tell every woman out there, like every guy's like they just think it's fun.

They don't think it's the most like it's as serious as maybe you're coming at it.

This isn't every conversation they're having, This isn't podcasts they're listening to.

So again, like when I first started doing this, you go, oh, this is like hilarious, like, oh, let me hear your dating problems.

And then you start meeting people and you're like, oh shit, like this is like real stuff, you know, like it is they're doing great in their career, their friends, the family, and then they're like, whats going on here?

How is this happening?

Yeah?

Son, how are you feeling about Yard's day?

Yeah?

What's my problem?

Maybe not a problem with Jared, I mean like a lot of the men out there that we've talked about earlier, like has a lot of options, and sometimes I think that's almost like a lot of the issue with today's dating world just that, Yeah, especially for men who aren't, you.

Know, right, successful, high high value.

No I'm joking, but like I'm.

Not, but like to be doing better.

Please follow me on Instagram.

I'd like to be doing better.

Yeah, No, I think, I mean, I think people don't want to talk about this because it feels icky and it feels unfair.

But I think that women are a lot of the time they're constrained by one societal norms that they should be.

They're more pressure to settle down earlier and to biological realities.

Is that in that the older you are as a woman, the harder it is to have children.

And so I think that there's there is a freedom that men have where they're not constantly thinking about dating against that that timeframe.

And again, it feels like in a gey conversation, it feels like something that shouldn't be true.

But it is true.

So I think that men do have more options and in a lot of ways, especially if you're like doing.

Well in your career and you're and you're in.

A city like New York, let's say.

And so I think that sometimes you can be a little paralyzed.

By choice and men will end things before the next step.

You know, men will go this is okay.

But I don't know if I want to go through the work like I'll say men.

Maybe I'll speak for myself.

I have ended things before the next step because I'm like is this the next place off?

Like, am I ready for this next phase of life?

It's not about the relationship.

It's about do I want to do the work?

Do I want the responsibility?

And I have a lot of envy and high regard for people in serious relationships like that takes a lot of confidence.

It takes a lot of like a stress and work that I have gone against.

I've said, well, I'm gonna put my life into you know, stand up in comedy and you know, my work, which is an easy excuse for me.

I also it's my avoidance of like this next thing of life.

That first few months of dating you can be You're all potential, you know, you get past that you're living in the reality of who you are.

And I think that's what a lot of men deal with is Like I'd rather be potential than the reality and deal with the.

Reality the reality or is.

And then then.

Commitment, commitment is reality like commitment, Like I think it's commitment to like the broader thing.

Like to me, when I think of like the next step in relationship, I'm like, it's everything.

It's house, it's family, it's kids, you know, Like it gets way farther ahead than maybe women think we're thinking.

I hear you on that like that resonates with me.

It's one of the reasons why we haven't had kids yet was because I was excited to be with my wife to get married, but my career took over, and then my wife's career took over, and that was So it's weird how you can have that at different phases.

So I can relate to what you're saying on the children level, where like I want to have kids for sure, but I mean we've been together now for twelve years and married for nine, and for me, the focus was I'm getting to build and I'm doing what I love and I don't want to end up feeling like I'm not paying attention to this young, beautiful child that I brought into the world.

And I'll do it when I can.

And I feel like that's a very feels like a very masculine trait, And so you're feeling the same.

I like the way you're talking.

I'm like, I can relate to everything you're saying.

It's just I'm married.

That's the only I've taken on that commitment.

I feel good about that one.

And we're around the same age yeah, I think like there's good and bad everything.

As we said before, like our parents like that may have gotten married young.

You go, well, I would never do that for me, and they had kids young, and then we kind of were given the ability to like push those things off.

And again there's positive to that.

You get to build your career, but then you get so precious with your life that you're like almost you become too picky, too choosy, too too precious with doing walking forward and what a lot of men will do, Like women will break up after they've tried again and again.

Men will break up before the next step.

And that's why a lot of men have the one that got away.

You don't hear from women with the one that got away.

A lot you hear from men.

Oh I could have been married to her.

I could have been married to her.

I've said that about many people I've dated.

And that's why it's like, you know, it's funny when you see these tiktoks are so angry, and so the negativity I talked about in the beginning, it's not as personal as it looks the way they're talking about it, even though it's personal to them.

Like I know from the male side.

It's never been that someone's not worth it or not enough or not you know, someone that I could have been with.

It was always my own I was thinking.

And you know there's a Tony kornheisers a writer.

I've heard him say this line, the key of me.

We all live in the key of me.

You know, when you write a story, you write it about yourself.

So it's like, I think, what a lot of men are going through is the key of me.

And it's not as personal to the women that are feeling like, oh okay, I have so much.

Choice or they or I thought he could do better.

I thought he could do better.

It's all that is always fraudulent to me.

I've never heard it that well articulated.

That's really interesting to hear.

I'm saying.

I'm a well articulated person.

My mom says that all the time.

No, No, I mean that.

I mean, I don't think I've heard it put that way before.

And I can resonate with it so strongly at different ways in my life, right, I think, right, it's a very it's an ideology that I get.

Yeah, and it's for all levels of life.

I mean, you talk about kids, you know, Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

It's I think that's just a man's mind is like, yeah, if you talk to me about kids at thirty, I would have been so scared.

Right that guy would have just been like, oh, oh my god, I don't think I could be a dad, right, Like that's how I genuinely felt like, right, Whereas now I'm thirty seven, I was like I think about kids a lot.

Right.

That's just a shift that I've been through my own mind, you know where at one point if you ask me how to be, like, ah, I'd be fine without them, And now it's like it's a part of something that I want and it's such a whether it's age and maturity, biology, finances, I don't know, but there is a sense of that feeling of yeah, it's not really about the other person.

I've always know my wife would be to make an amazing mom.

That's like it not even the conversation.

Well, we get so many emails that are like he ended it and I wasn't looking to marry get married.

That's always the response women were right, And it's not like I said I want to get married, and it's like it's really, you know, kind of like the meaning towards the men they're dating, because a lot of women don't think that men have the emotional intelligence to like think that far.

Ahead before we dive into the next moment.

Let's hear from our re sponsors and back to our episode.

I don't know if it's demeaning.

I think women are like, why don't you just give this a chance?

Right?

Why don't we see where it can go?

And we don't have to get like, yes, why don't we, like a woman who's dating a man for three months, say, and he'll he'll break up before they're like in a relationship.

And I think there's this frustration of like, I'm not asking you to marry me, right, to commit to forever right now, but why can't you keep dating me or like really really fully commit.

I guess it's demeaning to both sides.

He's thinking way far ahead, right, way farther ahead than she would even imagine, and he's also not trusting her to be able to be told that, like he's ending it.

You know, she'll be okay if they date for three years and then don't get married, right, Yeah.

And I still go giving away other enough credit based right, we're not giving each other enough credit that oh wait, he's actually thinking twenty five years from now, right, And we're not trusting that she's confident enough to like to dandle a break handle a breakup in five years.

Again, both sides of that equation I feel bad for.

Like, if someone got dumped after five years and never got married thought they were I'd be like, yeah, that sucks.

Right, but she But women have agency too, and I think you see a lot of those stories and you don't get the other side, which is also that like, yeah, if you're dating someone for five years and you've been looking to get married and they and they're not married, you can leave also at any time.

Right, that's the credit you're not giving the woman, right, is that Like if you're not giving her what she wants.

She can leave, right, Yeah?

Fair, Yeah, it's so it's so interesting, right, Like what you're both doing, which I really appreciate, is it's almost like if we were able to verbalize this stuff the past that we're talking to right, much harder.

It's so much harder, but it would transform everything because you'd actually be able to hear someone's heart, like you'd actually be able to hear and go, wow, I didn't realize you were even looking at it from that really thoughtful perspective.

I always have so much joy when a couple says they listen to our podcast together, because I know what you're saying is so true.

This is all easy for us to say from the sidelines.

It is so easy for us to say, this is simple.

Oh, I could give advice on everyone else's relationship.

I know exactly what I should do.

When I'm in it, I'm like, I'm a bumbling idiot.

But when I hear a couple listens to our podcast together, I'm like, we're talking for them, Like it's almost easier to listen than it is to like put these into words.

And I'm like, man, they must be doing okay.

Like not to give ourselves too much credit, but I don't even think.

It's well, they're having these conversations and kind of like what we said before.

It's like, I do think when women break up with men, they're like, please change, please change, please change, and then they don't change, and then finally they break up with them.

And I think a lot of men are are maybe more than women, afraid to have a lot of these conversations, and so are kind of just like secretly thinking about like if they should leave, And then women always feel like they're blindsided.

That's true, that's absolutely.

Men are thinking about it for six months do anything?

Yes, And the women is like, what do you mean you've done?

All were perfect?

Because any woman that breaks up with it with her boyfriend will tell you.

And I kept asking him not to stop getting drunk, and I kept asking him to stop doing this and this and this, and he just wouldn't change.

And I really wanted it to work, and you just don't really hear that from men.

I don't know, it just wasn't working.

And no one ever asked me after a break of what happened.

No one, but generally, like my male friends are, they're just like high fiving me on the way to a dating app, you know, like, and if I had to explain what happened, it would just sound like I just gave up, you know, like, which isn't, you know, something I'm proud of, you know, but it's not something I ever have to really deal with.

So would you say you're not looking for a long term, committed relationship.

No, I am, that's crazy.

It's no I am, but I'm you know, I'm afraid of it being What are you afraid about?

If I was to be really honest about it, I'm afraid of making my choice as someone else's problem.

Or are you afraid of making the wrong choice?

Right?

Also, and then you make the wrong well, you make the wrong choice with the wrong person, right.

But I do think I know my taste enough at this point to know who I get along with.

And again, like I think a lot of guys, I'm not a soulmate guy.

I'm not either like you.

I don't think.

I just think you can make it work with like a lot of and but they all are very similar types, you know, similar type of personality and and thinking and worldview, those types of things.

But I do think, you know, I blame stand up and doing comedy, you know, and the career I chose.

But that's not you know, that's not a really good reason.

But I do think the fear of like you are someone else has, Like I if I fail, I fail my own Like that's really easy for me.

Like I can sit at home and bury myself in it.

I give a lot of credit to Like you're married and you're starting a business, or you're doing things and you got kids that you got to like talk to and they go, what happened?

The kids asked, what happened?

Are you kidding me?

I can't even imagine what happened with the big deal.

No, we didn't get it.

Like what do you say to a kid?

I don't know.

It's scary.

And I think I think you mentioned something a lot that a lot of men feel but maybe don't articulate, is that it is much more like their ability to commit is a lot more tied to how secure they feel financially, how secure they feel in their careers.

I don't think I think obviously women care about their careers and how they're doing financially, But I don't think I think most women will say I can date in any phase of my career trajectory.

I don't need to be established in order to get married.

I don't need to be established in order to have children.

I think men are much more like I cannot fully go there unless I feel like I could take care of a family right.

And if we go back to that high value douchey conversation, like what makes a guy high value is like career established, safe, providing providing like and doing Okay.

I think that that's why we talk about dating as vulnerably and as honestly that's what this is right now, right good.

And I think people listening, like when we talk about dating is like I like when I hear people just say, oh good, like I'm not sitting here alone, yeah, dealing with that, but like no long term relationship.

Yeah, I'm looking for that.

But I'm also like, I feel a little delusional even saying that I was in Australia.

I just did shows in Australia and I went to the Great Barrier Reef.

I did like the snorkeling of I'm not a snorkeler.

I don't know.

I was just like they were like, do you want to go snorkeling at the Great Barrier Reef?

And I'm like, how am I going to say no to that?

Like I'm no, I'd like to sit at the hotel and sit on my phone, Like I can't.

I have to do this.

This is some fuck list item.

So I took a boat like an hour away and we got to the reef and I started snorkeling and the mask kept coming off my face and I was like miserable.

Then they give you all this like lube and they say put it on your face.

So now I got all this vacaline.

They give you all the vacline and then put it on the face and I finally get the thing on it, and I start looking at the fish, and I remember thinking, like ten minutes into this, I'm going, is this is?

This is the Gray Berrier reef?

And then I'm like it's thinking, but I'm by myself and I'm like looking at this reef and I'm like, shouldn't I see a shark or some turtle eat something, you know, like I And then we got out back on the boat and I was just sitting alone on the boat and I'm like, man, I guess this is why people have relationships, like.

Someone to go to the Great Barrier reef and say how horrible it was.

And go, man, that sucked right, like you just want to go, oh my god, like and I again, I'm sure someone gets a lot of value from seeing the Great Barrier reef.

But like, you know, again, like this is old school shit.

I'm not saying I'm saying anything that doctor SEUs didn't say, you know, like it's who you spend the time with and who you get to complain about with, and I think I like, I remember after that trip at austral I was like, I'm not I think I told you.

I was like, I'm not going, never going to the Great Barrier and again right right.

I just remember being on that boat just being like, what the hell am I I was like, do people like this?

I don't know.

I think people like that.

They went with a partner and they were like that sucked, right.

That's how I felt watching Superman last week.

I'm trying.

I'm trying to get all my friends to go watch it to just figure out whether I'm mad or not.

It was the West we have ever seen in my Hey, I hated it.

It was so about that.

Feeling of I didn't go to my wife.

I went with a couple of friends and they hated it too.

But then the ratings are through the roof, right, and everyone else I haven't I don't know anyone.

So when you go watch it, tell me I saw it.

What did you think?

I like?

I didn't like three D.

I thought three D any of the comedy.

I wasn't laughing.

I didn't find the dog cute like I didn't get it.

I got annoying.

Yeah, I just thought the dog got annoying.

I didn't get the film.

You're a Superman fan?

Yeah, I love Superman, but like I love the TV version with Do you like Smallville?

No?

Not Smallville?

Is pretty good show?

No, not Smallville.

The I felt that way.

It's it's it's interesting, Jordan.

I wanted to ask you that with kind of like the opposite end of what we're talking about with Jared, Like how long have you been married now?

Almost four years?

Okay, okay, yeah, fine, and what have you like you've been building a business.

The business was fairly established at that point, I imagined, But like, what's that been like for you?

Where almost all the things Jared are friend of the things you've been doing, what's that like in reality?

I think in reality it's like so much less scary than you think it is.

I think the.

Hardest part is, like, especially for you, is the feeling of like finality and commitment and like this is it.

I'm making a choice.

But I think nothing makes you feel like an adult more than like really making a choice.

And I think being married is making that choice every day and saying you know, I'm gonna look at the positive aspects of what's going on here.

Every It doesn't mean like constantly being positive or never sharing something that's bothering you.

But I think sort of what you were saying is like the magic of marriage is not necessarily all the good stuff that you're sharing together, but being able to like go through life and experience all the lows and all the highs, and then you really have like this full intertwined experience with someone and they help you grow, they help you, you know, if they're the right person for you, they're help they're supporting you.

And I think then for me, what was unique.

About meeting my husband as post to anyone else I ever dated, is I just felt like this full I felt so safe and so secure that I could build my career and I could go out there and I could like not be folks hyper focusing on finding the right person because I felt like I had someone who was supportive and who wanted the best for me, that I could be fully myself with and like self actualized.

And I think that you would have that totally too, and of course someone to make fun of the barrier reef with and that you know, yeah, to make fun to like also.

Go through barrier reef as I call it, yeah.

Or to go through like the negative experiences or something horrible happens to you and you have someone who's seen that and they're also then when things are good, they also they can appreciate that with you much more.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was really cool though, because we started this podcast when Jordana was single and also just started dating and started husband.

So it was funny to like when in the beginning of this show, like how cool it was to like, it's funny when we first started, Like you know, Jordana asked me questions that are like so you could tell like this is kind of about my dating, Like I'm on a third date, you know, like like would you say to someone going on a third day with someone they kind of like and they think is a good guy, you know, like.

I think he did.

Yeah, that's funny.

Yeah, that is the weird You have a dating podcast and you're like the weird part is you're more honest on a podcast than you are than you can be with the people in your life.

Like, as that might sound bad, but like you come on here, we're talking, we're chit chatting and that's the beauty of a podcast.

You get to like put in a headphone and just sit and be a fly on the wall.

And yeah, there's like that.

Was a great part of you being in early dating and having you.

I would basically like you could be like his mouthpiece almost for any fights we got into or anything, and you'd explain the side and.

I would get it more.

Because you do have like that very unique ability to sort of verbalize what men are thinking or how they're thinking about things.

That sometimes you just don't come at things the same way.

And that's really the source of most conflict in relationships, is just having a totally different framework for how you see the world or how you would see a specific instance.

And a lot of the times men and women are thinking about things really different, right.

And that's kind of been like the frustrating part about like the Internet's evolution over the last like seven years of us doing this podcast is like there aren't a lot of male voices, straight male voices in this space.

I'm not trying to like pat myself on the back, but like I'm when I come on this podcast, I am I'm telling you exactly how I feel.

And it sounds really icky, as I said before, but like this is it, Like I'm not apologizing for it.

I'm just telling you.

And like the podcast has been great because you know, Jordana has never been like well that's just you.

You're gross, you know, like like I am gross, but I am speaking.

I'm within.

I'm not one hundred percent away from your boyfriend.

I'm ten percent away at a max.

Most of us are ten percent away from each other.

So when we talk about stuff like and you see on the internet like there's no male voice to get back to the horrific stories you hear about dating from the female side, and it's because a lot of the male side of this isn't really morally great.

Well, it doesn't feel whole quite as wholesome as the intentions for women, right.

The intentions for women on dating afices.

I want to find the love of my life and hold hands when we're buried together dead, and nothing can be better than that.

I just like to like, how do you you know that doesn't sound great on the internet, and you will find a million voices shouting you down.

I'm here to be casual and just have a fun time and maybe if I meet someone great, like we have so many people that ask about and this is like they'll ask about what men write, or people write what they write as what they're looking for, and it'll be like, I'm looking for a long term relationship.

I'm looking for short term but open to long.

Before that option even exists, I would always say men are looking for short term option for long That's what all men are looking for.

The dream of this person waltzing into my life and making me not want anyone else.

That's the Disney princess to us.

So you know, when we get asked like, oh, what they wrote that they're looking for a long term relationship but they ended it with me, it's like, yeah, that is bullshit.

Stop looking at what people you know what they're looking for.

The only thing you should trust on a dating app is I only want short term, because that's them being honest.

Every guy on there is open to long term, but you know, open to short but hoping for long, and they believe it.

So you're not going to win that battle.

Hey, but you said you had long term relationship written there.

Oh, you're right, I guess we should be together now that's never gonna happen.

Yeah, and that doesn't sound great.

No, of course not that.

Yeah, I would make out with a bunch of chicks before I met the love of my life.

Yeah it doesn't sound great, but that's how most men are going about this.

It's really interesting when we think about it, even from if we're a tempest in a way.

Yeah, my perspective has been so transformed.

And I hear this from men who are married and have kids and so who one step ahead of me in that?

And even for me getting married, who is the best decision I ever made because it actually gave me more time, energy, and space to do all the things I loved because as a young man, all I did was chase women and spend loads of time, money, and energy on finding the right girl.

All of a sudden, I got all that time back.

When you realize how much efficient I have.

A buddy in the baking and I'm like, when did this happens?

Like I got a wife.

Yeah, it's like I'm like a better version of myself.

And and I remember speaking to like a lot of successful men, and they were all like the best if you look through history, the most successful and happy successful men.

I'm not just talking about financially, just men who were happy and successful.

It was because they were committed to one woman, because there's so much time and energy to bill, do, be and be accepted.

I don't doubt no, No, I'm not.

I'm not preaching no.

But I no, no, no.

But I know you're not because I've heard you talk about your wife on our podcast and you can tell like this is a partnership.

You guys are aiming for the same thing.

You seem on the same page, just the way you talk about your relationship.

And when you see that and feel that, you go, yeah, of course that's the better option than single.

But then you sit here and you go, man, I haven't really had that.

And that's the right answer, because you're right, it's not just anyone, right, it's the person that's mutually working on it with you as well.

And to your point too, you could I could have been with a lot of different people.

I think I could have married a bunch of other people that are dated, but it wouldn't have worked because either I would have lost enthusiasm and energy or they would have Whereas the only reason why this one's working is because both people are willing to put in that energy and that work and that time in a way that I don't think I would have had for anyone else, like you know, and that's that's the part that you're waiting for, and that's important.

Yeah, for sure.

So I want to go to the final five before we do some segments with you.

These questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.

But I'm going to change it for you.

I'm going to change it for you, guys, because I don't want to do that, but we've gotta be quick with it.

Lightning wrong.

So I'm going to give you a little bit of scenarios.

So you've been on a few great dates, but you've you're always the one initiating a walk point.

Does that stop being their style and stop being assigned.

They're not prioritizing you.

As soon as you're turned off by that, yeah, I think you know.

I this is this is my answer to try this.

If you're in a position you're always making the plan and it doesn't you're turned off by it.

First of all, established I'm turned off.

I don't like that I keep making the plan.

That's okay to admit.

It's okay to say you're turned.

Off if you don't like making the plan.

If you don't mind making the plan, that's also okay.

Right, both are okay.

But if you want the person you're texting with to make the plan and it would make you feel good, send this text you ready, Hey, I'm really busy today, would love to see you again.

Make a plan and I'm in nice.

I like that.

There's no other answer to that than the plan.

If there's other answers, they're not really looking to go out, and hopefully you're turned off by that, are they right?

Or they're not someone who makes plans and they're not for you?

Right?

Yeah?

Well I said I like great honests.

That was very succinct.

But Davy, that's good.

All right?

You matched in a dating app.

You've had a great conversation, but they haven't responded in two days.

How long do you wait before moving on?

Feeling it is the answer?

So like that person felt it, I haven't heard from them in two days.

Okay, what are you going to do about it?

Hey?

Checking in?

Would love to go out.

Make a plan and I'm in right.

Make a plan.

Positive and direction will get you everything you want in life and my with dating.

If you're honest, you will feel dishonesty very quickly be positive.

Hey, I've loved chit chatting with you.

It's been a couple of days.

I'm around next week.

Make a plan and I'm in.

Make a plan and I'm in.

We'll set you free.

It will really such simple advice.

Yeah, but I only give advice that would work on me.

What would work on me?

If someone I was texting with but I was just getting the dope, mean hit from their text and I didn't want to go out with them.

If they were like, hey, make a plan, I'm in.

Time for me to go.

Let me put on my hat.

I'll be out the door.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And if that doesn't work, If it make a plan and I'm in doesn't work, you've saved your own time something, You've saved your own mental energy even thinking about it, because you've thrown the ball in their court and now you can move on.

Right.

Great?

How do I navigate jealousy of friends, relationships and milestones When I feel stuck behind?

Remember that your friends are all liars and they're way up more unhappy than you think they are.

They suck.

How about that?

No, I your friends, and the jealousy probably comes from a place of you assuming.

I think if you went out for lunch with a friend that you'd feel jealous of, you'd feel really different after that lunch.

I kind of tend to believe that.

I call it that guy mode FTG mode where you're like someone will be like, hey, have you met my friend Tim?

And I'm like FTG right away, And then you meet them and you go, they're a nice person and they're pretty cool.

And so I think, if you're feeling jealousy, does your friends in their relationships go for lunch with them?

I think that would be like a purposeful move.

I have a slightly different take.

I think one I think the feeling of jealousy is really like that's a secondary emotion for what you're really feeling.

And maybe what you're really feeling is like a loneliness thing, And I think it's okay to feel that.

I think that tells you.

That's actually great because it gives you direction.

Now you know what you want.

So many people have no idea what they want, so I think that's great.

I think have lunch with your friends not to see how miserable they are, or maybe that's maybe they are.

Maybe they're miserable or maybe they have a great relationship and you can say, what was it about this person that made them different?

You can get inspired by them.

I think you can change, like we go back to the beginning of the episode.

You can change your attitude.

You can feel like more excited and kind of get like a tip from them.

I think it's okay to feel people are so afraid to say.

I feel jealous and I don't know why.

It feels like a very icky emotion, but I think it's okay to feel jealous.

Like jealousy is like I know what I want.

I want that now I can like really work to figure out how to get.

It all right, good answers, if that's all right this one.

This person's not overly impressive to me, but they're loyal and kind.

Do I stay or do I go?

I just always think of these things.

Would I want that person saying that about me at our wedding?

And I wouldn't want to be with that person.

I don't want to be with someone who pities me, someone who doesn't think.

And again, if you're thinking they're not overly impressive, then you're probably very caught up on what other people think of your partner.

And that's probably more of a message to you than it is to how they should be.

So maybe you have to go and kind of like work that out and why are you thinking that way about your partner?

And you should I would, I would want them to end it with me.

I'd be like, I don't want to be thought of like a dog loyal that's what that's how you talk about.

The dog, right, I do agree.

I think that, like I would have met, I would ask myself what does overly impressive mean to me?

And what is that adding to my life?

And then I mean, like again, I think part of dating, especially as you get older, is like figuring out what actually matters, and some people call that settling, and I think other people call that prioritizing what's actually important.

So I think I would dig deeper into overly impressive, what that means to me, why I'm so interested in it, and what I think that's going to bring to a partnership.

Yeah, what was that?

All right?

Fifth and final question.

We asked this to every guest who's ever been on the show, but I'm going to apply it to dating and relationships.

If you could create one dating law that everyone in the world had to follow.

What would it be.

Every time you say you're confused about something, exchange the word confused for turned off.

So I'm confused they haven't text me back, I'm turned off that they haven't text me.

That's great answer, and.

Being turned off doesn't mean it's over.

It's something to communicate to the person you're dating.

And that's an easy text to send from outside.

It's not easy to say on the inside, but to say to someone, hey, I'm a little turned off that you haven't text me back since our date, and that's all you have to say.

Because again, I only give advice that works on me.

Anytime a woman has told me I've they've been turned off by me, it has motivated me.

Take you, impressed them, motivated me to like do either end it or better?

Motivated you to some actions make a action.

So anytime someone says they're confused about something, I've noticed that that's just their way of not telling us that they're turned off.

So take confused, switch it with turned off, and then communicate that great advice to finish this up.

I think my mistake I used to make in dating, especially before starting this podcast, is you know, wanting to be the person that someone likes and so said like not stating your own need in an effort to get the widest reach of people who are interested in you.

But what I've learned is that when you express your needs, you save your own time and you find the better match for you sooner, because your needs are your needs.

There's no such thing as a wrong.

Need or a right need.

It's what works for you.

And the sooner you ask or express your need, the sooner you find out if someone's going to meet it, and the more time you save on your own.

Nice stuff, too, Down and Jared, you guys are the best, great advice, great insight anyone who's been listening and watching.

Make sure you subscribe to you Up if you haven't already.

Make sure you cut this into all your clips for TikTok for Instagram tagle three of us.

I love seeing the stuff that resonates with you, the stuff that turned you off, the stuff that brought you to life, the things that you're practicing.

I want to know who's doing the challenge with Jared, because yes.

It's helpful and it'll make you feel but you'll feel refreshed very quickly.

I will say that you could do the challenge in a relationship.

You're just you know, put your You're.

I'm being more social.

Okay, all right, I like the dinner one ya I make a plan with a couple.

It really does.

Yeah, it changes it, it changes.

Get off your phone.

The challenge is get off your phone.

It's a little bit.

Yeah, get when I'm with someone else, I'm off my phone.

But love it.

You're Dana Jargy.

You the best.

I hope you come back soon.

Thank you.

You guys are awesome.

I really I hope you'll come back again.

We've got lots to moret to talk about next time that I wold have kept you here for another hour if I could have, so, I'm so grateful.

Thank you so much.

You guys are awesome.

You're the best man.

We really appreciate it so great.

Thank you so much for having us.

If you love this episode, you're going to love my conversation with Matthew Hussey on how to get over your ex and find true love in your relationships.

People should be compassionate to themselves that extend that compassion to your future self, because truly extending your compassion to your future self is doing something that gives him or her a shot at a happy and a peaceful life.