We're watching memories disappear in front of us.

Everything we thought was solid and true and consistent was going to dramatically change.

Chris Hemsworth, Welcome to On Purpose.

Thanks for having me.

It's great to be here.

We're in Byron Is that's me specific.

Soya come to Byron to interview you, and I was just sharing with you.

When I first started the show, you were on that top list of people I wanted to sit down with.

So it took me seven years to get to Byron Bay.

Thank you, But I'm really really grateful.

So it's such a fan of your work.

I loved watching your interviews, felt felt just a connection to what you're doing.

And then as you've gone into this world of Limitless and now this incredible documentary with your father, it's such a phenomenal evolution from the authentic version of you that I feel we've always got to see in interviews.

So oh appreciate it.

Yeah, thank you.

Yeah, really really special.

Yeah.

I love the show and I'm glad you could make it out of here and we could do this in my hometown through Shiful Well.

I wanted to dive right in because in the dock we get such a up close and personal feel of who you are, your family, your parents, and I love understanding how people became who they were.

So the first question is what's a childhood memory that you have that you feel defines who you are today, that feels like it is such a strong part of your personality today.

What you see in the documentary is the road trip my dad and I take back to the community that we grew up in, this indigenous community, Dolden Territory in the outback of Australia, and they were definitely my most vivid earliest memories.

I have trouble remembering kind of years earlier than that and years after that, you know, because I think one it was so starkally different to the environment in Melbourne where I grew up, but I think there was it had such a profound impact on me due to for so many reasons, the connection with that and that the people in that community.

The experience itself was so dramatically different to anything as I'd done, but the immersion within that that that in indigenous culture in Australia, and having feeling this sort of influence from the I guess the sort of traditional way of life that they embodied and the welcoming we received in that town I still have when I think about who I am and my appreciation and sense of gratitude and place in the world.

Definitely, I'm brought back to that period of my life.

Trying to think of a sort of a single sort of thing for you, but that that period of time for me is the most, the most vivid.

And what images flash in your mind when you're thinking about that time.

Is it not owning a pair of shoes, not having a TV, being the only white kid, and an indigenous school buffalo walking down the street, being five hours drive from the nearest shops.

You know, it was like a little remote community in the middle of the outback, and but how normal it all felt, you know.

And to be sort of thrust back into that environment now would be sort of a shock to the system in many ways.

But that was as familiar and comfortable and organic as sort of anything I've ever felt.

And you know that I see photographs now that prompt instant sort of visceral feelings and a deep sort of nostalgia and warmth and happiness, you know, in a sense of connection, because that was you know, he lives in a tent at one point, you know, with my parents and my older brother.

We then lived in a sort of a very older, sort of run down house.

But it was it was as you know, wonderful of a childhood as you could ask for.

You know, there was no it was sort of boundless, the opportunities where the imagination could go, and the sort of the physical experience.

You know, it was again unlike kind of anything else I've had since then.

You know, it was sort of Peter Pan quality to that sense of fantasy and adventure that was instilled in us from that age, but that that environment definitely awoken in us.

Yeah, and I guess when you're living here, you don't know how specially it is.

Yeah.

I think like all of our experiences that you know, there, the norm is what is in front of you, you know, and if I had something to compare it with at the time, I may have, but it was that was my way of life.

And then it was kind of a shock coming back to Melbourne and adapting into I guess the world that a suburban neighborhood, you know, structured sort of you know town that we lived in and catching the bus to school and the train and all the sort of the usual things that for me was an adaptation that was I remember kind of going, oh, this is this is very different to where we had sort of where we'd come from.

Yeah, your dad in the documentary says that as a kid you would say I'm going to Hollywood.

Yeah, I'll go to Hollywood.

Where did that come from?

From this world that you grew up in.

I think part of it was growing up in Northern Territory because there was this sort of sense of adventure instilled in me then, and I remember my dad reading Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit to me and my mum as well, and that sense of sort of fantasy and imagination awakened through through a sort of a very big cultural difference.

But also I think being outdoors, you know, the opportunity for not boredom, but not being continuously stimulated and entertained like we asked it of nowadays with devices and so on, there was I guess being in that environment awoke something in me that I still now either try and get back to or when I do attach myself to it, it ignites that sense of fantasy and that sense of adventure.

But through reading books and then when we moved back to Melbourne.

Every weekend was you know, we would go to the movies, or we would hire a film, or we'd go on hikes and we'd go surfing and we go camping.

And I remember from a very young age not wanting to be an actor, but wanting to be one of those characters in one of those films, one of those books.

And the closest thing I could be to, you know, an elf in The Lord of the Rings, pressed up and played one in a movie, or the closest thing I could, you know, get to as far as antigalactic travel or something was playing the character in that movie.

And I guess it was sort of sort of an escapism of sorts, but not that I was escaping from anything.

I didn't to be a part of it was it kept me captivated, you know, and still does.

The transportation to other worlds and inhabiting other characters and other spaces, it's yeah, and it sort of it comes from a different each film and each character I sort of I look at and that sort of journey I embark on.

There's a sort of a real organic attachment to it.

As far as I wouldn't say I'm seeking out that character as much as they sort of arrive.

And then as you sort of fall into a character or fall into a film, it then sort of takes on a life of its own and takes it to places that I think you just have to be open to, you know, interpretation, but open for the journey.

You mean by playing a character.

Yeah, it opens up a different mindset or different for sure.

It probes different parts of your soul or psyche.

And there's a premeditated sort of a proach and a sort of calculated approach, and then there's an absolute sort of demolishing of all that preparation and surrendering to the process.

And then and that's the part.

I love you, and you only get that through an extreme amount of preparation, yes, and calculation, but then the letting go portion of it, and which is where the risk is involved.

But then that for me, is where the greatest adventure occurs, is through kind of really leaning in and really surrendering to the experience.

That rings true.

I had the fortune of sitting with Kobe Bryant before he sadly passed away on the show, and he talked about how structure leads to spontaneity.

Yeah, it was that discipline, as you're saying, leads to the ultimate ability to be free and surrender.

But as I hear you say, I'm wondering, it's obviously not something that you mathematically strategically access because you're saying, it's happening in this really natural, authentic way where it leads you.

What roles made you feel that way or which one are the ones that have a strong memory for that for you where you went, oh wow, this led me to a place I didn't imagine it would.

I mean, it's interesting because I sort of I think I undulate from the extreme analytical, over ruminating, calculated analysis of something and then into the sort of you know, more sort of mad scientist, you know, intuitive sort of approach, but they go hand in hand, you know.

The sort of the polarity between the two I find is really helpful.

And I'd say the film with George Miller, part of the Mad Max series called Furiosa, and that, for me was was probably the greatest example of that kind of character taking over and being led into a place which you didn't plan for.

But it only the sort of improvisational portion of it or the experimentation of it, or the you know, throw caution of the wind and just leap in.

The first came from months and months, or actually a couple of years, because I had read the script two years before, and while I was doing other films, I was thinking about that character.

It began to sort of infect my thoughts in a daily and to the point where I had to kind of try and put it aside because I had to get back to the film I was currently on.

I was talking to George Miller about that, and he goes, well, selfishly, I don't mind, you know, you can give our character more of that.

And it was the first time I kind of started journaling as the character and started doing a you know, he was a pretty ugly, villainous individual on paper and on screen as well, I guess, but I had to find a way to sort of understand and empathize with his position and from his point of view, he was the heros and you know, everyone's And so by the time I got to set everything that i'd sort of planned began to fall away, and each day was again kind of an experiment and a real sort of deep dive into the psyche of this individual and what were the sort of justifications for his actions which were perceived from one angle as you know, horrific, but from his angle and his position, from where his people were standing, Survival of the fittest, And yeah, I've had that a few times in my career, but that certainly stands out is one of the biggest ones.

I feel like there's so much empathy in becoming an actor because you're trying to understand this character that you don't know, but you have to kind of get to know, and you may not feel what they feel.

One of my friends is an acting coach in La and I.

He invited me to just go watch one of his sessions with actors at night.

So I went to see him a couple of weeks ago, and I was just like, if anyone feels lonely, they should just go to an acting class.

Like everyone was so encouraging of each other, and there's this real camaraderie that everyone had and everyone give each other feedback, and all of it was about dissecting character and emotion feeling, and I was like, wow, I've learned more from this than you know about human emotion and about human potential sure and depth.

Then you would going to a class because there's so much study, and there's so many layers, and there's so many And as I'm hearing you talk about it, I'm like, yeah, there's such a But it sounds like you love that, Like it sounds like a lot of yeah, yeah.

I mean, I've always had a big interest in psychology and understanding us sort of in a workings of soul and our psyche and us a human beings and we interact with one another and nature versus nurture and the how and why of it all.

And for me, there's just something therapeutic about the experience of acting and putting on the clothes of a completely different individual and having the chance to look at the world through a different lens.

And I see that as a real gift you compared to a lot of sort of I guess you know, our working life.

It is.

There's just an abundance of creativity and exploration there which which I find, you know, incredibly helpful, just even I mean from each character I find I come out, whether or not I agree with the character or not, I've been able to sit in their shoes for a moment and look at the world in a different way, and I think there's a sort of humility that's forced upon you in that sense, which I find I find a really interesting sort of experiment, and as you've been pointed out, I think very healthy for all of us to do.

You know, I know a lot of directors that you know, have never acted, and it scares the hell out of them, but they go and do acting classes for that reason, to understand the psychology, also understand how you're going to come at this character or what the position is that you might take, and as opposed to standing on this side of the fence and making assumptions, stepping into those different environments certainly, and it gives you a greater sense of agency.

Yeah.

Has there ever been a character you played where you felt I wish that one didn't rub off on me or left with you there?

I mean, it's I find that it's not that the lines get blurred.

But I've been in im press too.

Was defending my character and then we tapped on the shoulder and like the guy killed a bunch of people.

Oh yeah, okay, besides that part, and so it's sort of I don't think the state I will get myself in for certain characters through the day a very heightened sort of fight or flight type state where I am there's a sort of feels like there's electricity running through my bones, and you've especially when there's a lot of dialogue and there's a lot of reaction, a lot of lot going on, that I find very hard to switch off.

It's not so much the character that I'm trying to shake, it's the energy that's required to play that character, and I find it with one of the hardest things to the high to come off is improvisational sort of comedy, you know.

And I remember doing then when we did Ragnarok, there was a lot of that in there, and it was a very new version of the character, and I would get in there's sort of ecstatic sort of you know, electrified state and be kind of drinking coffee and red Bull and slam and you know, energy drink to try and elevate that more.

And then it was like I'd have to kind of rein that in and get home and I'd just be sort of twitching and try to come off that.

So I find that the residual effect of the state of the character more so than the.

Yeah, it's more about getting into characters.

Yeah, because you could put that that that I don't necessarily have to believe I am the you know, leader of an army or whatever.

It's more what would I feel in that situation that you then embody and then that sort of takes out.

That's fascinating to hear.

Yeah, yeah, but the jitters are real.

Like that's like you've talked before about this idea of how your acting career has actually brought on huge anxiety, Yeah, and stress.

Where where's that come from?

I remember when I when I first started acting, I had it immediately once I sort of locked into the idea that I was going to become an actor.

It was an absolute obsession, that was an addiction.

It was all I talked about it.

That was sort of there was no shadow of a doubt that was what I was going to do, and there was a ignorance and a naivety that was there about the reality of how difficult that was going to be.

But you need a fair amount of madness, I think, to sort of excel in any space, there needs to be a certain amount of absolute, deeply profound sort of commitment to it.

You know, you talk about Kobe Bryant and anyone in phys excelled in in their field, and you know a number of sports players and individuals that I looked to that's sort of on the spectrum in some sense.

You know that there's a sort of a mastery there which is otherworldly, but it does require a sort of an insane dedication to it.

So I remember when I was finishing high school, it became this obsession that was all I was going to do and everything I was going to do from it was I was going to help pay off my parents' house.

I was going to do this.

I was going to do that.

I was going to take care of my family and friends, and oh, you know a little of the amazing things I could do.

And every time I go into a job, as small as it was and inconsequential, in my mind was like, if I screw up this one scene, then it will somehow make its way to Hollywood from Australia and I'll never get a job again if I strew up this one audition, And it was that kind of pressure.

It was I was thinking ten years ahead.

And then from the time I got onto Home and Away, which was to be big, so proper alongest running proper in Australia, which I flew into that experience with enthusiasm and excitement, and I was it was great for a couple of months, and all of a sudden, I was hit with this wave of anxiety because I was looking at the outcome rather than the sort of process, and I was looking at the I'm doing it for this reason, and that resonate rather than being in the moment in the present, and it really detracted from what I was doing each day, and it would be the last thing I'd think about before I go to bed was what scenes I'd screwed up and how I should have done this, I should have done that, And as soon as i'd wake up, it'd be like a shot of adrenaline about what I was going to screw up.

And I don't know.

I think it became from a sort of expecting too much of myself, which is there's a slight sort of contradiction to that too, because as I said, it requires that obsessive, you know, addictive sort of concentration, but it's the ability to sort of hold that obsession and that absolute need and want for it to achieve something great that you want to achieve, and then at the same time to completely let it go and not care.

And so I had to do this strange dance around trying to convince myself I didn't care, but in the preparation time to motivate myself, I would have to care a hell of a lot.

And so it's sort of the you know, the the two voices, the Jacqueline Hyed version of oneself that is sort of both need to be kept in check.

You know, it's it's your purpose pulls you, your fear pushes you.

There's a sort of strange balance with the two extremes I find useful but also terrifying when not kept in check.

And and that sat with me for years, that anxiety.

And then I remember I've talked about this in a couple of interviews, but reading a few books around performance anxiety specifically, and looking at different sports players and musicians and people who performed at a high level of public speaking, and they took their all their sort of measurements, you know, the physical sort of response responses prior to these engagements, and said are you scared or are you excited?

And whether you know half the group was in this category, half isn't excited.

The physical response was exactly you same across the board, elevated heart rate, all the things you know, you would imagine.

So it was about the sort of the takeaway was it was about an interpretation to that feeling.

And so when I would have nervous energy come up and all those things that at one point I would signal myself for fear, I to just narrate that in a different sense and say, oh no, this is my signaling for excitement.

This is not my signaling for fear.

And again that's I still have to keep that in check, and it sort of out of know where, it will take me down one path or the other, and I've got to kind of wrangle my way back to the preferred place, which is which is that the enthusiastic is sited.

You know.

Yeah, what's fascinating about that, as I'm hearing you say, is it actually makes you better at what you do.

Yeah, like that pressure it sounds like that you were putting on yourself when you're doing home in a way, Yeah, even though it wasn't a great experience for you, it's making you better at the thing.

Yeah, And that's what I find so fascinating about people like yourself or high performing out fleets or any of the types of people you mentioned.

Is that the thing that makes you better at the craft doesn't necessarily improve the quality of your life and your mind.

Yeah, and that's that dance you're talking about, which is so I've got to kind of be able to unleash the beast to be able to do the work that I do.

But then I don't want the beast to eat me, Yeah, because then there's nothing left.

Yeah, when the beast is satisfied.

For sure, there's sort of a blessing and a curse in a way, because I've had experiences when, you know, the thing I was trying to remove, which was that heightened sense of awareness and then the fact that you know you're absorbing too much information and it's every little movement or sound.

I'm like, oh God, I wish I could numb that.

I wish I could reduce this sort of state and be more present.

And then I've found my way to that place, either through not caring for one reason or another, being purely exhausted.

You know, night shoots you just got there is no adrenaline lefe in the body.

I'm like, oh, this is great.

I'm comfortable and the first note is it's a bit flat.

Then the next take, you know, and I'm like, oh great, the thing they've been trying to get rid of is actually the secret source.

And so that again about the interpretation.

I don't think the feeling itself is the problem.

It's our label we put upon it, which then causes all the problems.

And so I say this to friends of mine who are auditioning on set and having anxiety or problems.

I'm like, you got to just you're got to make friends with it.

You've got to look at it.

It's very hard to recognize now, but it is a gift in that sense.

It is your spidery sens is coming alive.

It is the ability to think quicker and react faster and be more attuned to things if you you're allowing it in the space as opposed to you know, don't think of a pink elephant.

Whenever you think of that's pink elephant.

And I've had so many people talk about like meditation prior to walking on stage and calming down, and I don't know, for me, that is like house of cards, because it's like you're in that state and then the one little thing sets you off, whereas I beforehand want to get my state and myself into that ecstatic sort of state because it's on my term.

So now I own it as opposed to it being something that creeps in the back door.

I'm like, no, I want this.

Bring it on, big, big breath kind of you know, absorb it, use it.

And then and then I found that that has been really beneficial and I've been able to use it for the good version of it, as opposed to it transforming into the one we're afraid of.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, it's what I hear you saying is that when it's in control of you, it feels like pressure and fear, and then when you're in control of it, when you're embodying it, it's now part of your narrative and part of your purpose and part of you feeling like, oh, this is fuel for how I want to perform, rather than this is just reminding me of Hey, if I missed these three things, no one's going to care about me, and I'll mess this up, and that obviously is not helpful at all.

And so you're saying, befriending it is transforming it from being pressure in fear, Yeah, being friendship and purpose.

Absolutely.

Yeah, there's an acceptance to it, there's a surrendering to it, there's an ownership to it as opposed to it being something you're trying to avoid.

But that only comes through I think, understanding the mechanisms or the mechanics around the fact that it is beneficial.

If you have that relation to it, you know it is the worst thing in the world.

If you're trying to avoid it.

Yes, you know, shallow breath, heart rates up, sweaty palms, like you can't think, everything just shuts down, you know.

But if it's like no, no, the the these these this physical response is emotional response I've programmed myself to see as a positive.

Therefore it can be yeah, and again you'll see me broke down at one point, go the trick can't working today?

Is a Chris.

I've had a similar experience with public speaking, where I've been public speaking for years on stages and if I really care, and that's my narrative kicking in.

If I really care, I'll still get straight palms, I'll still be shaking a little, I'll film my heart rate go up.

And I've learned that all of those things are just assigned that I care, because I know if I get asked to speak someone I don't really care, then I won't feel any of those things.

And so I'm like, oh, I feel like there's some steaks here and this is important.

And then I have my practices to embody that and feel good about that.

But then at the same time, when I went on tour two years ago and we were doing nearly fifty shows across the world, I was feeling a completely different level of anxiety than I'd ever felt.

And I remember two days before when we were in rehearsals, I just feel really tight chested.

I talked to my doctor and went in for a check up, and they're like, it's just stress, and I was like, well, am I stressed to do this all the time.

But there's always what still makes you nervous or what still gives you a stress.

Now, I mean this stuff, you know, the press, you know walking I said it all, it all definitely awakens that that that feeling, and then it's a constant sort of dance and adaptable sort of the experience.

But I think, you know, I probably have a much easier time now playing a character than I would being myself.

Like in fact, with this this series Limitless, that was very new to me to do, you know, be in the documentary space and play Chris, and I felt really uncomfortable from that.

And I got better with it probably in the second season and this and this last episode with my dad, But earlier on it was like, I have nothing interesting to say.

I don't I'm not educated on these topics.

I don't, and I'm sort of a guinea pig in the experience.

So maybe that's a good thing.

But you're far more critical of yourself than you are.

I think of someone you're pretending to be.

Like you said before, that it's a signaling that you care.

I guess that discomfort, that anxiety is the signal that it's important on some level and it's something that should be respected and paid attention to, rather than oh, I'm anxious, How dear I be anxious, And then the criticism and the judgment, and then it's like slippery slope.

Yeah.

Yeah, It's so interesting to me how so many of us it's easier to pretend to be someone then by ourselves, not just for actors, but all of us.

Whether you're playing a performance at work and a persona or a persona with your friends, and it's so hard to just let go of that persona.

And it's almost like when I speak to comedians, they're always like, yeah, I just feel everyone just wants me to be funny all the time, and they just feel that constant pressure around friends, family, everything, and they just want to be normal and have a bad day or whatever it may be.

And you know, everyone feels that pressure to perform in a certain way, and it's almost like we're waiting for the person we can take off the outfit around and just kind of let go.

I remember my mum talking to me about this years ago, and she was a high school teacher at the time, and I said, I'm nervous about this, that and the other, and being on a certain producer in this and she goes, it's the same in any environment.

She's me as the teacher.

Okay, well, the principles the producer and my students are the audience or you know, and my work colleagues and the other cast members.

And in any line of work you're faced with this.

It's the sort of a human experience that you can't escape.

And she talked about the same thing about kind of understanding that and accepting that it always is a challenge.

It's always a navigation of sorts, and rather than looking at it as my experience is unique and special to everyone else's and has more pressure than yours or this that and now that's the trapping, you know, as soon as you kind of understand it is more common than uncommon, I think there's some comfort in that.

Like I remember listening to Anthony Hopkins and Kate Blanchett and you know, people I'd worked with and admired and looked up to, talking about, you know, imposter syndrome and this might be my last job, and thinking, really, but there was deep truth in that, you know, they still had that doubt, but aware of the fact that maybe that doubt was a good thing because it kept you humble, It kept you motivated, It kept you pushing forward and searching, as opposed to thinking you have all the answers, you know, and then there's a sort of and there's a lack of humility.

Yeah, yeah, well you've talked about that as well, right, You've talked about that idea of fearing saying no, yeah, because what if it all disappears?

And when I read that you said that.

I was like, wow, like that, you just wouldn't expect that.

But we have these codings from whether when we were young or wherever we picked them up, where there's like a sense of like, oh, well, this could all just go away.

Yeah, you're growing from a house, you know, loving, beautiful household and great parents, but we had no money.

And I remember the kind of financial burden that was on my parents and overhearing conversations about bills and you know, then borrying money for our grandparents or their parents to you know, before payday came on every Thursday, or you know, the twenty dollars we might have had in our piggy bank, kind of saying we worry that we'll give it to you next week.

And and not that they ever put that honest by any means, and probably tried to shelter us from that, but being very aware of it.

So I felt that responsibility and that need to remove that pressure for them from a very early age.

And but still it's this crazy irrational thought that well, it's going to run out or it's going to be taken away, and I won't be able to do that thing.

It's like we've already done that thing.

You know, they're all taken care of their family, cousins' friends, you know, and not to say my career couldn't end tomorrow, but financially that wouldn't be a concern due to kind of what we've put in place.

And it's I don't know, it's it's irrational, it's the logical, and but again I think it, I don't know.

It's sort of I don't mind a little bit of that just to keep you hungry, but it has to be tempered.

Like all of that.

It's because of the insanity of too much of that thinking is incredibly detrimental, and you never enjoy what you have because it's always about I need to get more and it's not enough for what else can I do I do to secure this even more?

And it's this obsession with safety I think we all have, and the need for abundance and in security.

But then I look at my own childhood where I couldn't have felt more secure and safe, and you know, so money isn't the answer to that, yet you sort of trick yourself into thinking it is.

And whether that's from society will sort of understand these expectations and the sort of our relationship to money as human beings and how we signal or represent safety and comfort in the wrong spaces.

Maybe, but it's a constant navigation, isn't it.

Yeah, it's almost like what you're talking about is the power of pattern.

Yeah, it's almost like when you've thought that has been practiced.

So with you giving the examples of like, oh, we're gonna borrow this money here and we'll pay it back next week, and so you're constantly living in a cycle of we don't have enough, We're going to have to figure it out, and that doesn't disappear when an external situation changes, and you can all relate to that.

I mean I can relate to it in my life too.

And what I love about what you said the most was it's not about I think everyone over and I don't like you when anyone says this whole money can't buy happiness stuff, because I'm like, well, it solves a lot of problems for a lot of people, and I don't think that's the point.

But I love what you just said about this safety idea that you felt safe growing up and it wasn't because of that, and I think that's an even more powerful truth where it's like, wait a minute, what about if it was about safety and we all want to feel safe and secure.

I felt very safe and secure because my mud I've always described it as my mum's love was like this protective shield where I never grew up ever questioning whether I was lovable or not.

My mum loved me someone and that makes me feel very safe.

And that wasn't we had money growing up, And it wasn't because we always knew what was coming next.

It was because you felt loved and you felt safe and secure because of.

That, for sure.

And so there are certain problems that money solves and it's not safety.

Yeah, and it can provide and help for that, but safety is a more core emotional need, Yeah, that comes from other things.

It's another thing I've talked to my mum about the fact that the lessons I learned and the person I am and my brothers who we are.

You know, growing up in that household, we didn't have money, And well, now my kids we have money.

What's that going to do to them?

Are they going to not learn the same lessons that we had and have the same sense of sort of gratitude and appreciation for things, and she said, you could look at you know, the households ad a lot of money, households I had little money, and he could pick about the same amount of successful stories versus unsuccessful.

And at the end of the day, it comes down to love, security, safety.

Do I feel like I'm connected and part of this household and appreciated and that I'm safe to explore who I am as an individual or not, you know, regardless of this sort of the exterior, the larger environmental, sort of superficial elements of it, it's around those core components of love and connection, and that always gives me comfort, you know, when I'm sitting here thinking I'm destroying my kids by having this big house, and you know, abundance and all this so on.

But is always a complex one that sort of navigate in any space.

I guess.

Yeah, I think it's true though.

I think it's what you've been saying this whole conversation already, is that you keep talking about how everything's somewhat of a gift in the curse.

Yeah, and it is that right, Like everything is like and as soon as you accept that everything's binary and there is no black or white, yeah, it is all gray.

Yeah, And it is all teaching people to see the gray and see the nuance and see the complexity and recognizing that complexity is simplicity in the sense of as soon as you accept that it is all of it, Yeah, then all of a sudden, it's simple.

Whereas when you're trying to find a definitive right way of doing it, it's pretty impossible to find it and you rack your brain forever.

It is, and this sort of the thing you're searching for only exists because of the thing you're not searching for, like the polarity of things, and it's the you know, there's no north with herd of south.

There's not a one sided mountain that there's that you know, you only know love because you know grief.

And I had this friend of mine passed away recently, and I had this the normal response of grief and anguish and pain and the why and the questions.

And then through that, all of a sudden, this this lightness and this stillness because all the trivial things that I was ruminating around day to day all of a sudden dissipated, and it was like, wow, it's that simple.

It can be gone in a second, and I wouldn't know one without the other.

And so the sort of grief is as much a blessing as the love is and the joy because they coexist.

You know that there isn't an individual experience.

You can't have one without the other.

And that that, for me, I find helps navigate the complicated spaces of life.

And the sort of moments of adversity is kind of realizing that they're sort of one and the same thing.

And that's and I don't do that.

I don't exist there all the time, but every now and then and I feel like I get a glimpse of it, and there's a quiet peacefulness to it, you know, it's like the sort of the louder it gets, all of a sudden, things just stop.

Alan Watts talks a lot about that.

I love just sort of the philosophy around what he presents in that way.

Yeah, I'm sorry for your loss.

Yes, thank you.

Yeah, I mean it's you know, there was a sort of out of nowhere kind of tragedy, tragedy as you know we all experience at some point.

But I just remember having that moment, that sort of very odd sort of lightness in amongst the Greece, which he paused for a moment and consider where that came from and where that stems from and what that sort of what that message is.

Yeah, yeah, it's so you're your grief is only as deep as your love.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If you don't feel grief about something like that, well there's probably because you didn't didn't it didn't have that love and care and it's but yeah, it's not that that's easy to recognize in the moment or pause, and but when you get that access, it's something to worth holding on to.

Yeah, And that was trying to reconcile the sort of dischotomy around those two two feelings, you know that the the sort of I almost then followed this guilt that I wasn't feeling as sad as I was a moment ago.

And it's like, what is this sort of compast kind of you know, push and pull between those two states, And it's like, I don't know, living in the questions rather than needing the answers to it, you know, all the time, the sort of the answers of trying to define the definity why to something and the absolute certainty of something is just like a danger in a trapping.

Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.

Yeah, and we will just And the funny thing is, even if you get a perfect right answer, you still won't be satisfied with it tomorrow.

Yeah exactly, Yeah, because then you're like, wait a minute, if I look at it from this angle, you know, and it's it's fascinating how the human mind wants completion.

Yeah.

Yeah, that still keeps locating all the incomplete loops.

Absolutely to get lost in it, Like the unly certainty is uncertainty, you know, the only constant inconstant.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's a It does a number on you, for sure.

It's like, I don't know, if you're when you're a kid, you're kind of lying awake at night thinking about how big the universe is or what happens when we die and then nothing and then like oh, it's like kind of your brain arrives at a place of nothingness, you know, and that's as terrifying as that, it's kind of liberating here.

Yeah.

Does it help to have brothers in the industry too, because I mean that's rare, Yeah that, you know, all of you have got incredible careers and it's like, how does that is it helpful to be able to share some of these challenges or do you find that that's not really the case?

No, it is definitely.

Yeah, this is a sort of a point of reference or are There's a camaraderie for sure and support network between the three of us.

You're in your sort of quieter moments of reflection, you can kind of go, is this normal?

Am I kind of you know wrong to feel this that and the other, and what's your experience in that?

And so absolutely having someone who is a complete sort of you know, safe house for those discussions is a is a real benefit.

Yeah, it's really powerful.

I feel like that's the hardest thing for most artists or athletes or people who go and live other worldly lives.

And then it's almost like you have all your best friends back home or your the people you grew up with.

Yeah, and you need them because they're the only ones who remind you of where you started and where it came from, But they don't understand the new world that you deal with, and so you kind of have this version of it where they can reconcile with you the challenges.

It's not like, oh well, Chris, you're rich in famous.

It doesn't.

So they're like, oh no, those things are still real, and you still experience im Paster syndrome, and you still experience anxiety, and they can vouch for that because they probably go through the same day.

Oh for sure.

I mean, I feel very lucky to have them in the same space.

But I'd say the thing that has had the biggest effect on me is that the team that people I get to work with, which is from you know, the hair and makeup team, my costume guy that I travel with, my assistant, my trainer, that group I've known for about fourteen years.

My assistant, my trainer I've known for thirty five years.

I went to school with my two best mates, and to have the five or six of us travel together is in I thought was quite common.

Why wouldn't you bring along your mates and have the same people with you.

And the amount of people I've met in the highest two positions that live this isolated, lonely existence and don't have true friendships around and groups of people who who remind them who they are really and remind them that there's there's a grounding quality to it.

It's such a tragedy, you know.

I think of this this abundance of opportunity and this sort of you know, one in a million chants to sort of participate in this journey where you get to travel and you're dealing with all this experience and activation and interaction with the world on a level that you know most of us wouldn't get to experience.

Yet you're doing it alone.

You have no no one to share it with.

And I think that's the about the social connection.

It's like it's only as good as the people standing at the side of you that get to walk that journey with you, because you know, there's times when you become a little jaded about it, there's times it becomes a little normal, normal times when it becomes boring, and have someone to shake you and go, hey, that's pretty cool, and remember where we came from and what we could be doing when what we used to do is is incredibly invigorating.

And I find myself the thing I'm most fright for, I think in my career is having those core people with me constantly.

Yeah, how do you define a real friend?

Someone you can laugh with and who you can laugh at each other and it's not offensive or it can be and that's okay.

Someone you can really push it too far with and they're going to go I'll let that one slide.

I'll get you next time.

A true friend who keeps you humble, I think, keeps you grounded, the sort of the sort of obvious things to say.

But you know, through thick and thin, they still stand there next year, and whether it was all to be taken if it all got taken away, they'd still be there having a laugh Paty in the back saying, well, we gave it a shot.

And I've got a lot of those people in my life.

I'm very thankful for.

Yeah, I love that it's it's definitely it's British band is a big thing.

But I got to learn that Australian band is as strong, if not better, as well, because when I was touring in when I toured Australia two years back, and we did three shows at this in the Opera House, we did Melbourne and Brisbane, and I have lots of moments in my show where I bring people up on stage and we're going through all sorts of experiments and activities and every single person would banter back.

There was no one who's letting me get away with a joke at their expense and I was like, this is amazing.

It was so much fun.

Everyone was so fast, the equips were great.

Like it's good.

There's a good self deprecating sort of quality.

Yeah.

Yeah, and I love that too.

Is I feel like, you know, I have a WhatsApp group with all my best mates back in London and all we do is just roast each other all day long, so whether someone posts something on social media or send this video out, whatever it is, and I think that that's such a good test of friendship for sure.

And when we when me and my wife from London too, when we moved to America, me and my wife roast each other just as you would roast one of your boys, and everyone on my team would just think we were having a massive argument because they just went used to it, so they thought we hated each other exactly.

Yeah.

We were like, no, this is our you know, it's not passive aggressive, this is this is just like Yeah.

I think that there was a there was a study done recently and I don't know where I read it, but talking about that it is at a sign of true friendship that you can roast each other and give each other ship and it's a sign that there is a I don't know, there's a trust there because you don't.

I wouldn't speak this way to someone that I didn't know that well.

And yeah, I thought it was going to go okay with it.

Yeah, a bit of trouble.

Yeah, talking about the worst.

The worst was when I first moved to LA and I was learning about getting a stylist and all this kind of stuff, and my friends would just take terrible pictures of me off the red cart, just keep putting them in the group.

Then why you're wearing a skirt?

What you do?

I'm sure you've had a million of those.

Oh for sure.

I'll so many pictures of like, you know, certain sort of fashions at a moment and looks and it's like, oh it's number seven, you know, a hand on the end, there's scratch above the head, and you kind of I find myself of doing those shoots and then stopping myself because three or four guys back home, we're going to see it and tell me better rather than the last majority of people who might not think twice about it.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I love that and you need that.

Yeah, I think about it all the time.

Every time the hairstyles tries a new hairstyle, whatever it is, I'm like, yeah, all right, I know who's I know who's going to send me a picture of this tomorrow.

It was I'm so grateful that I got to see the documentary because I I went through a really and I shared this because of how powerful it was for me to watch it.

And so my greatest spiritual mentor, who I grew up around in London, he passed away during the pandemic and I couldn't go back to his funeral.

I was I was stuck in the United States and he was he was based in London, and I just remember finding out.

It was almost like everything changed for him and changed for us in like a night.

It felt that way, at least when we became aware.

Yeah, no, no, but it was watching your experience with your father was was so beautiful because it was all the I was like, people are going to watch this and they're going to know what to do, and that is such a beautiful thing to give people.

It's such a gift to give to people because I didn't know because I'd never been through I've never seen anyone publicly go through it.

So when I watched it, and I can't wait for everyone who's listening and watching right now to watch it too, because it gave me a real resolve to be like, yeah, this is going to help people.

It's going to help a lot of people.

And I wanted to ask you about that.

Your your father obviously got diagnosed with Alzheimer's.

It's like, what was that like the day you found out?

Like what, how did or how did you eve noticed it before the day you found out?

Did you start to notice things?

Yeah, yeah, it's funny.

I remember in the first season of Limitless and Peter Attiya, Yeah, I did a bunch of blood work and you know, looking at my genetics, and the plan was on camera.

He was going to tell me about, you know, what I had a predisposition to and what I had the vulnerability or what my strengths were and so on, and he said, oh, I don't want to do this on camera.

I got to talk to you about something.

And I thought, oh god, what is this?

You know?

And Darren Aronofsky called me.

He said, Peter wants to call you and and I got really nervous about what he was going to tell me, and he said, you've got two copies of the apoe four gene, which you get a copy each from each parent.

A two's not so about.

A three is a little worse.

The fours the worst one, and you've got two.

And basically, I think one percent of the population has two copies of these genes, and it puts you in a high risk category for Alzheimis.

It's not a predeterministic gene.

It's just an indication that you have a great vulnerability to Alzheimer's.

He told me that, and I was like a moment of sort of shock, a moment of what does mean?

And then about fifteen minutes later, I was like, ah, something old people get whatever.

I told my parents about it, and I remember my dad saying, oh, look that don't worry now, we'll figure it out.

That's you know.

And I was like, yeah, I'm not concerned.

It's just this strange thing to be told.

And he was likely, it's fine, mate, you know plenty of time where you don't figure out what you need to do to prevent it, and so on.

And I remember vividly that conversation of him sort of telling me not to be concerned about it.

And then about two or three years later, my Mum's saying to me, I think we've got to get Dad checked because there's these signs and things I'm concerned about the obvious one's memory and sort of slight mood changes and shifts and forgetfulness and so on.

So he went and got tested and found out he had two copies of the Apeli four, as did my mum, which so we got one one percent of populations April four.

What, I don't know what the math is on finding each other.

So then Buddy Fault, Me, Luke, and Liam all have two cops of vapors.

So this sort of anomaly of of genetics and accommodations.

And but my I was immediately hit with the reality of what that meant for him because I had just gone through way.

Ah, it's a long way down the track, don't worry, push it aside.

Then all of a sudden it was right front of us, and it was incredibly confronting.

But again I think the we'll figure it out mentality was was was still very prominent, and then as it began to get worse, it became a real sort of shaking into the moment and a real sort of shock to the system.

And oh wow, this sort of everything we thought was solid and true and consistent was going to dramatically change and shift.

Yeah, and then and then we I remember when I was looking at doing another episode for that series, the discussion around when I do something around brain health with my dad, and my first instinct was I just spent a lot of the press too of the previous show trying to tell people that I didn't have Alzheim's, and you know, and I said, I don't want to go through that, but I also don't want to exploit or feel like him in any way, putting him in an uncomfortable position, exploiting this kind of condition, And how is it going to make him feel?

And I spoke to him about it, and he was like, oh, absolutely, yeah, no, you know, maybe this will help shed some light on the issue and people will benefit from it and we might learn something along the way, and off we went in that direction.

But there was a huge amount of grace and humility in his attitude to it.

You know, he says it in the documentary, but his biggest concern was being a burden and that was heartbreaking to hear and consider.

And I had never even up until we shot the documentary.

I didn't know even how he felt about it because I hadn't asked him.

And I felt the strange mix of sort of guilt while shooting as well as concern for his condition, but guilt but hadn't asked this prior.

Now I'm doing it on camera, and so it was this strange sort of orchestration of events.

But what came out of it, and it wasn't planned, was this beautiful so connection that my dad and I were able to have in this beautiful discussion that we probably wouldn't have had otherwise.

And someone who had just seen it recently, he said, I'm about at the same you know, I got diagnosed a few years ago.

I'm in the same space as your dad's in.

And he said, I wish my kids could see this documentary.

I hope they see it because there's so much stigma around it.

They don't know what to say.

They don't even talk to me about it.

They don't ask me how I'm feeling about it.

They don't ask me am I afraid?

Am I concerned?

What am I concerned about?

They just sort of talked to me about the footy, or they talk to me about you know work and that was a sort of a beautiful moment of realization.

And I was there with my dad and I said, this is hopefully what you know this is going to do for people, is it motivates people into reaching out and removing the sort of awkwardness around the uncomfortable conversations and actually reaching out to people and allowing each other to be vulnerable, allowing each other to talk about their fears and their concerns and help navigate it together as opposed to again having blinkers on and sort of burying our heads in the sand.

It's such a big thing, and it's such a hard thing that it's hard to be like, oh, when we've had hard things happened in the family before we talk about it.

This is different to that.

Even though everyone's an adult now you know your family and everyone's grown up, it's a difficult conversation to have.

And it's have you as a family always had open conversations and emotional conversations and difficult conversations or has there not really been a need to have one?

And no, we have, but there hasn't been a need as as I guess is as important as this one.

You know, it wasn't as personal like we we've obviously had, you know, people die and situations occur and things that we were all you know, confronting and and the you know, human experience a tragedy, and and and so on, But it wasn't as in front of us as this was.

And the interesting, the complex thing about I think dementia and Alzheimer's is it's when the science first start to show, they're very subtle, so you still sort of think, oh, we can manage this, you know, and and then it gets over time a little worse.

And depending on the regression.

You know, some people that happens in six months and they're the sort of vegetable CATACOONCTO states, whereas and there's some people that's a that's a slower regression, and and and so again there's there's an easy option to sort of ignore all those subtle changes.

And I think this experience made it far more prominent for all of us than we had to pay attention to it.

And even my mum had said, you know, my dad did the interviews.

She's like, I've never even heard him talk like that.

I didn't even know he felt that.

I didn't know he was his experiencing that and because he didn't want to put that burden upon someone else.

And so yeah, I I guess I'm thankful for the opportunity to embark on this sort of journey with him, and as far as the documentary went, because it ignited something in I think all of us in my family to be a lot more proactive and a lot more present and a lot more connected, because you know, we're watching sort of memories disappear in front of us.

The first time you're going through it.

And same as my experience before the pandemic, before he did pass away, I would go back to see him.

Yeah, and every time I'd go back, I'd noticed, especially because I was living in La So every time i'd go back, I'd notice big changes then the people who were with him every day.

And it was like I'd go back maybe every four months to see him or whatever it was, and it's like the first time, he'd still remember my name, but he'd forget that I was there after like ten minutes and then say hello again.

And then the next time I'd go he'd remember my name, but then he'd only he'd forget me every thirty seconds or whatever.

It was and then you know, you just I saw that decline because I wasn't with him every day.

How long we're be to him when he was, oh, my god diagnosed?

Maybe like I think I'd have to check the exact time, but maybe like three to four years.

Wow, yeah, like three yeah, yeah, it's the same time my dad was diagnosed.

A friend of ours was diagnosed.

And my dad's actually in a remarkable position compared to that friend of ours who can barely speak, and that glazed, vague, local sort of confusion comes twenty four to seven.

My dad is the short term memory, you know, and it's the older memories are still very strong and evident.

He can sit here and recognize people.

But there's some repetition now occurring more than there was.

But you know, I'm thankful that it hasn't happened as fast as a lot of instances, you know.

Yeah, yeah, it was about probably four maybe even five years ago.

You know, yeah, that's yeah.

No, I'm happy to hear that too.

And it was.

It's beautiful to watch you go back to your childhood home like rebuilt, rebuilt, redesign, And when everyone watches it, they'll know what I mean when I say that, but just like, yeah, it's such a special thing to do, Like I can't imagine what it felt like for him and for you to even go back there as like, yeah, it's finally grow an adult, because he was an adult when he was there last.

But you know, no, and it was the reminiscence therapy is what was called about.

You know that there's basically stimulating old memories and the hippocampus and triggering memories that held a great amount of larger emotional response.

So whether it be exhilarating, exciting, nerve wracking those intense memories to stimulate those via looking at old photographs, talking to old friends from the past, discussing things that happened in the past.

What we did was very elaborate, supercharged version of you know, we had a film crew with us and a production and they basically took the house that we grew up in and stripped all the furniture out and somehow sourced furniture and posters and DVD players and whatever you know that we had as kids and set the house up the way it was and we lived there and it was beyond sort of comprehension that when I first walked in.

I was struggling to sort of articulate how I felt about it because my brain didn't know what to do with it.

And it was remarkable sort of seeing my dad sort of come to life in moments and it triggered all of the other memories.

And then my mum going through the house and it triggering a different experience for her, you know, as a reminder of the passage of time and the memories she had then, but the memories we may not have, you know, in a few years time or that disappearing.

But it was, yeah, a pretty wild experience.

Yeah.

Yeah, it just fully takes you back, and it's I imagine that while you're doing this, because you're doing the supercharge version, there's a sense of I wonder how your thoughts on how making memories has changed, because we say that as humans, like, oh, we should make let's make memories.

But I don't know if we really think about it as profoundly as you do when you're faced with not knowing how many more you can make and how many of the part so is, how is your thought process on, like make the idea of making memories been impacted?

I think my time that I spend with him now is is is a lot simpler then I would have thought would have attempted in the past.

I thought there had to be a bigger experience d to do something, you know, incredibly memorable.

And I've realized now that the greatest moments of just sitting there, being with him and seeing him have someone listen to him and see him, have someone see him and pay attention, and watching him through this, even this documentary, all of a sudden he had agency in something again, you know, and not just because of they're certainly having Alzheimers.

The awareness around I'm losing control and I can't sort of lead the pack or be in charge of the space.

I'm very much a passenger or maybe a patient.

But also that thing that happens at a certain age.

And I've watched my parents, you know, the last kind of ten years, the transition of well they've been the authority and now they're looking to us.

That does to the ego and all, and it's it's it takes a great amount of grace and humility to go.

Oh, I now have to seek support where I used to lead the way, and I don't have the answers to that and now you know, my kids may be the authority on a lot of these subjects.

You know, even though we thought we were well for our egoic, youthful times, but that sort of transition and so for him, that was really you know, I looked at that making the documentary as a I thought I was very thankful for watching him, and a lot of the crew said this, Wow.

As the days went on, he really sort of took charge and felt like he was in the driver's seat again.

And I think that's really important for people to remember us to still give them some agency and still as much as there is a lack of control, but I don't know, allowing them to embody some authority and narrative on their life, as opposed to like now you just have to sit in this space and have your hand out and yeah, yeah.

You think you're helping, Bactually you're hurting.

Yeah, it's like you and I try, And you know, I asked my dad questions I know the answers to, but just to I know he'll it feel like he has hopefully doesn't hear this, because you will forget it anyway, you know.

I'll ask him things just to sort of stimulate some again agency and authority and has his thinking.

But yeah, I mean it must have been pretty amazing to see him ride in like yeah even that, like yeah, that's pretty impressive.

When I saw that, I was like, wow, that's yeah, that must feel great for him to get because he used to be a Yeah.

You know, it just to me that that also must feel like some agency for him to still be so active in this way, because.

Yeah, And that's the thing I think I'm most scared for for him, and I think probably he is, is it will come a time when he won't be able to do those things.

And at the moment, you know, I mean he saw races and historic races with old Harley's and different bike and things, and you know, we'll blit the pack and young bloats to rock up and their bikes and instagraph and they'll go whoa who is this guy?

And he ends up on the podium a lot of the times in the phrases he's an incredible rider still.

But I don't know at what point that will occur.

But that, for me, I brings me great concern, you know, as it does for him as well, because it will be the I think the most obvious representation of the lack of agency and that you're taking a real backseat to things.

You know.

Yeah, well, no, hearing you talk about it is just genuinely so as hard as it is for you and obviously for your family, and even just hearing you say how hard it was to make a documentary about something so personal, I definitely think that even hearing you talk about it today, I'm like, this is helping people because I feel like there's so many it's not talked about enough, and there are so many families that go through it, and like you said, it's so easy to pretend like it's not happy or try and just tell that person what actually happened, because that's what our logical brain doesn't.

What did you learn about your dad through this experience?

Only that you wish you'd learn sooner or understood earlier.

My dad had.

There's certainly has always been my hero.

You know.

He's represented such nobility and integrity and compassion and strength and a great, deep, profound sense of justice and injustice and right and wrong, and it has been very present and vocal about situations like that.

You know, he worked in child protection and taking care of the most vulnerable of us and being children, you know, and and that he big shoes to fill, you know.

And and but I think what I didn't realize watching this documentary was that he had all the same fears and concerns that I had or I have, And and he isn't unshakable and unmovable, and he's human and watching him be vulnerable and express concern and fear about things made me love him on at an even deeper level.

You know.

It's like, oh wow, the walls came down, you know.

And I don't think he was presenting those walls out of avoidance, but there wasn't.

He wasn't as not emotionally invailable, but he wouldn't let you see that side of him as much.

And now there's this gentileist, sort of open, vulnerable side which that I wasn't aware of as much as before, you know, And I think that I'm very thankful for that.

You know, He's got beautiful sort of watching his interviews which I wasn't present for, but the master interviews that I watched after with that, oh my god, I had no idea that those are the things he was considering.

But also the sense of humor he had with it, and that the human and the sort of self deprecating sort of nature that he had even in discussing the most difficult things.

You know, it must be really special that you have all those tapes.

Yeah, absolutely, I had I think you said this at the start of our chat, but he had a friend of mine say, because I was really concerned about doing this, and even through it, and even after we'd finished, I was talking to the director.

I was like, oh, it's just a good thing if I you know again, I don't want to feel like this is exploiting any of this.

And he said, you know, I lost my father really suddenly and never had a chance to at these conversations.

And the fact that you've been able to have this experience and force these conversations out of one another.

What a gift.

And then so many people who were at the screening the premiere a few weeks ago said I wish I had done this, or I am now I am going to do this.

I'm now going to reach out to my parents or that loved one or friend that I haven't said these things too, because it was just a reminder of the fleeting nature and of all of it, you know.

Yeah, well that's that's what's amazing about it that it doesn't have to be Also, it's like, you know, yeah, it's just about having time and space to reconnect and see your parents for who they are and who they didn't show you because they were protecting you, and yeah, who they didn't want to or they weren't ready to.

And and it's hard because we all have everyone has different relationships with their parents and everything.

But there's there's something beautiful about being able to just sit there and see them and them being at them allowing you.

Because even like making the documentary was like, on one hand, I sort of we're you know, we were abut to sort of understand Alzheimer's or dementia and and find the fixed, find the silver bullet, you know, look into reminiscence therapy, looking at different medications, looking at for different modalities and approaches on how to handle it.

And then by the end of it it was exactly that it was like, oh, wow, this is about connection.

This is universal to all of our experience.

This isn't just about our semus.

This is about supporting one another and being there for one another and being part of a family in a community and that india connected nature of all of it as opposed to one lane with dementia, Alzheimer's cognitive health.

It was about it was about love and support and connection, and that for me was the biggest takeaway I think, you know, or as equally as sort of beneficial of the connection with my dad was about what it meant universally to all of my relationships.

What did you learn about yourself that you weren't aware of it, that you hadn't come across before.

And I felt just said I was doing something right.

I think, I know that sounds kind of strange, but I had so much doubt and criticism and concern about it.

And then I was sitting at the premiere and my dad kept like holding my hand and never done that, you know, he was both emotional and laughing, and I thought, oh wow, this is like, out of all the things I've done and things I've put on screen and the things I've made, this feels profoundly important and deeply personal, but special and unique to probably anything I'll ever do again.

And I don't know a little bit of what we're saying before, but I don't walk around thinking I've sort of I am the thing.

I guess I try and present of having figured it out and having this sort of you know, being entirely in control of things.

I have more doubt than you know, well as much doubt as anyone, or more doubt than anyone.

I don't know, but I have a lot of inner criticism and so on, and this, I don't know.

I felt a real lift in that, and I felt like there was plenty that there are plenty more opportunities or should be to do things that have a deeper message and can resonate on a larger scale, and they can mean something.

It doesn't just have to be purely entertainment.

It doesn't just have to be it can have a deeper message, you know.

And I don't know, I cut myself some slack.

I guess I sort of sense of sort of pride that I hadn't felt before.

Yeah, I love you, and that I'm glad you're finally giving.

Yourself And I'm not saying I'm kind of, you know, disapproving of ely I've done.

And but I don't know, it resonated on a different level to me.

Yeah, I think that's real.

I think it's real.

I think I think that's they just feed different things right in the same ways that you can make something purely entertaining that makes people have the best time and laugh and whatever it is making something that personal, Yeah, there's there's nothing like it.

Like I'm sure it was almost more gratifying watching your dad watch himself and it was ever seeing any of your movies, because that's how we're designed.

Like I feel like we're like we're wired for generous he is, humans were wired for that connection.

So it's it's you know, when you were seeing that person that you love, what's themselves.

Yeah, it's way better than seeing yourself on the screen.

Visually next to me.

And I spent as much time looking to him to sit as I did at the screen.

And at the end of the film, something you said to me.

On my first ever film, I spent a small part in Star Trek and he flew in for the premiere in La with a moment and the end of the film, he grabbed me, kissed me on the top of the headingers you were the best in your row, And every single film I've done, he's like, you were the best in your row.

You know, you were the best in your class type thing.

And it's this like his way of saying, you know, and then he would go on and give the greater sort of summary of it all.

But then I leant over to him and I said, you're the best in your row, and he goes, yeah, not as bad as I thought it was going to be.

This again, is a wicked sense of humor about it.

Yeah, no, he comes across.

I mean, obviously I've never met your dad, but he comes across like so lovable, so charming, so endearing, like just you know, just just a great dad.

Like he definitely like.

You know, you should know the human.

Yeah yeah, yeah, exactly exactly, a good good like good people, good good human.

And there's that beautiful picture that almost the whole documentary is kind of centered of, you know, you and your dad.

And I was wondering if you, if you would go back to that younger self in that picture, what would you say to that younger self.

I don't know it would be.

I'd be cautious to say anything, because it's all it's worked out pretty well, you know, the slightly older version of that kid.

I'd say it's going to be okay.

In those sort of worry some nights that I would kind of spin my wheels on one subject or another and be full of concern and anxiety and regret and guilt and this kind of strange concoction of emotions.

I don't know why, but uh, I would like to appease and remove some of that if I could to my younger self by saying, don't worry, just trust in the in the process and go with the flow a little more, you know.

But then again, as I said, I wouldn't change anything, so I want to see myself off the path.

Yeah, it's like almost if you went back and did that, then you wouldn't be doing what you're doing today.

I want the same outcome, but I want it to be less challenging.

Isn't that all of us?

That's so funny that that's literally it was like that's that would that is everyone's desire in life.

It's almost like never the case.

It's all even this, even you making this documentary was it was uncomfortable and now you're sitting back reflecting, going, I'm really proud of it.

It made me feel good, you know, sitting with my dad, like, but it was an uncomfortable journey of do I make it?

Do I not is it?

How's it going to look?

And so it's such a the discomfort to joy.

It's so real for all humans.

And I don't matter how many times you tell yourself the city is what builds the strength, whether it's in the gym or whether it's emotional experiences.

It's like, you'll be better for this afterwards.

Always yeah, each time like ah, why why me?

Why again?

Why is just happening?

How can I avoid this?

How can I you know?

And it's like it's a it's a I don't know whether you ever arrive at a place where you're just completely on board with the suffering the challenges of the university.

And you're like, but then if you did, then it wouldn't be suffering.

So then you're not learning anything.

Like then you're not working out, Then you're not then you're not actually going through it.

Okay with this, it's because it's not hurting enough.

Yeah, give me an extra ten reps.

Yeah, okay.

It's like when you've been in the cold plants for seven minutes and now it's not You've just Normalisa, it doesn't matter anymore, just in there for the ego booster.

Now it's not doing anything you need to do it eight.

It's like, Yeah, what do you think that younger self in that picture, or even a bit older would say back to you.

I think it'd be they'd be like, we're going where you don't have the And I think that often about if my younger self knew what was install or what was coming, they would be you were gonna play superhero play dress ups and we travel the world and and being this crazy, crazy adventure with our friends.

And I think I think they'd be I think they'd be grateful.

I think they'd be excited.

I think they'd make sure I was enjoying it, you know, and not being caught up in the next one or the over calculation of it all.

You know.

Yeah, it's almost like that.

It's almost like living life from that perspective is the only yeah worthy one because from that lens, you look at it and you go, I'm grateful and happy and joyful.

Yeah, And there's some power in just looking back at your life from that younger self.

For sure.

Yeah, And they'd look up and go, you're doing a good job.

You know.

They wouldn't have the criticism.

Yeah, it's like were you You're trying to better the situation for that younger version of yourself or the dream you had then, or this sort of the thing you you know, that the sort of the prior imagining of it all, you know.

And yeah, and I've thought about that before, Like the younger self would be wildly impressed by it, you know, so so should you.

Yeah.

But you know.

That's the funny part, right that that that younger self that's still inside of us, is the part of us that doesn't have the criticism and the judgment and the harsh words, and just as like this childlike excitement and thrill and enthusiasm, and it's still there inside all of us.

It's just you don't you almost don't let it breathe because you kind of treat it as like not as smarter or not as intelligent, you know.

I mean that's and that is what I I chase all the time in a performance setting is like how would the what would my mindset be as a child in this in this situation, and what would I how vivid would my imagination be?

How you know, let it run wild?

And every now and then I get a hold of that or I find myself in that state and it's completely unencumbered with the thought and the criticism, and you're like flying, You're in the moment, you know.

And and I had Downey, Robert Downey to say this to me once in the scene where I sort of improvised something and something happened and he comes up to me, how to feel I said, cool, that was really good, and he goes, happens like a couple of times in the career and goes grab a hold of it, remember it, And I was like, yeah, but what it was was that and the non judgmental, childlike version of myself, you know.

And I think to take that into all aspects of life, not just when I was in front of the camera, has been really important and has been a real lesson, is to be more adventurous, inquisitive and curious and not so much for outcome, base focused, you know, just be sort of moment to moment and allowing that sort of the cheekiness of children, and they're sort of the slight rebellious, sort of you know, less concerned with the rules version of ourselves come out.

Yeah, but like you said, but then it's uh, you know, that's that's it's inconsistent with how the adult version should behave and that's irresponsible and so on.

It's like it doesn't matter.

I don't know anyone getting hurt now, yeah, we'll carry on.

Yeah.

I think there's a big difference between being child like in childish.

Yeah, that's yeah.

And we don't often know the difference, yea.

And so we pressure down or suppress our childlike self, yeah, because we we're scared we might get childish.

And it's the intelligent self sees the childish partners are whatever.

Yeah, but it's the childlike self that we know exists and has that power.

There's this when I'm doing workshops, I have this thing called the thirty circles test.

It's basically an a four piece of paper with thirty on it.

And I'll do this with executives across the world and big companies and all the rest of it.

And I'll say you've got thirty seconds to uniquely complete thirty circles.

That's the only instruction they get.

And they all have a pencil, so everyone starts scribbling.

There's a timer, and then the time starts going down, and then I go five, four, three, two, one times up.

Some of them keep scribbling, like you know, trying to get some more time in.

And then they stop and I ask them what they've done, and the top five answers are always someone wrote the numbers one to thirty in every circle.

The second answer is people wrote eight to z and then ABCD, and then people do squiggles, people do emojis and little smiley faces, sad faces, football's pizzas, all that kind of stuff, and that's pretty much it.

And these are like the smartest executives, cmo CEOs whatever of all the big you know, Fortune five hundred companies and all the rest of it.

And then I've done the same thing with kids, and with ten year olds usually, and I learned this from the person who built the thirty circles test.

And the kids just come up these amazing things.

So this one boy, he put a line around it, put a little sign on top, and then put lines on the circles.

And when I asked him what it was, he said it was a bag of tennis balls, and because he plays tennis.

And then there was this other girl who she did all this intricate line work, like straight lines on each piece and different things, and then when I asked her what it was, she said it was a bird's eye view of a chessboard and because she she loves flaying chess.

And then my favorite one.

I always remember this one.

There's this little girl who did intricate circles and curves and all this kind of stuff, and asked her what it was.

She held the paper like this, she goes this bubble wrap and it was just like this really like childlike, you know, and you never get an adult doing any of them, because we just hear thirty circles, thirty seconds, get the job done and get you get these kids who just have this little bit of freedom still where they haven't got trained to shut that out.

But I haven't, you know, deeply embedded our neural pathways around ideas and expectations and you know, the assumption around the right and the wrong.

It's you know, the mind that is wide open at that point.

And yeah, I think we all can do the heavy dose of getting back to the time of our life.

You've been married for fifteen years now something like that, Yeah, fifteen years, and you've got three wonderful children, you know, and how old is the oldest?

Know, my daughter's thirteen, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So she stands in Yeah, what would you say your kids have taught you that you didn't anticipate their word.

I'd like to say they taught me patients.

They're attempting to teach you patients, because I don't know that I'm figured it out.

I mean, you talk about the ways you kind of you know, it can be in control and being authority in spaces and have it all figured out, and then that door opens and it's just chaos, and it's like I'm failing every single component of this.

The again, the importance of time, you know, and and the things that I thought we're going to bring great joy and the things that I was going to provide and give comfort security.

It's far simpler than that.

It's attention, you know.

They want your presence, they want your space, they want your focus, and and we overcomplicate it so often with the attempts are sort of more extravagant experiences and things, and yet they just want your time, you know.

And that for me has been terrifying at times realizing how quick it's gone, you know, and I think I'll get to that, and then a year goes by and I've done a couple of films or whatever and gone, oh wow, what which part of their you know, brief childhood have I have I missed?

And so they've taught me a greater awareness around the importance of this moment because their personalities change every second and every day and every week and every month, and you kind of you're mourning a version of that child every month because they're gone.

You know, you look at the sort of the three year old and you think, oh wow, this is it and can't wait till they're out an appiers and doing this.

And then all of a sudden they're four and five and they're adding appiers and you've put the stroller away.

You're like, oh god, I wish I had that version back.

And then so you're constantly saying goodbye to little versions of these people.

And so just pay attention, just be here, be present, and they don't care about the things they are the sort of larger achievements and you know, an award or a big film or this and that and the other.

You know, if they do momentarily oh it's cool, whatever, gone.

They just want you there.

And that's comforting, I find, you know, because the pressure you put on yourself about those those you know, more superficial sort of pmplishments and things are important on one hand, but not as important as just being there.

Yeah, what's been there?

What's been the key to fifteen years together.

Having fun?

I think, you know, both having a sort of bit adventurous spirit, making time for one another.

I think the complicated times have been when it's been all work, all kids, and all of a sudden, the us in the relationship is what is sort of the non existent.

You know, you're you're you're just kind of managing a household or the work family schedule, and else will be off on work, and then I'll be off and work, and then it's chaos at kids and the kid kid time, and and so sort of removing ourselves from all of that and just having time for the two of us and making space for each other rather than the rest of the world that can be so all consuming.

You know, that must be so hard though, right with your schedule.

Yeah, it is, it is, it's it's I think it's just hard to sort of for anyone really, you know, it's all relative and you know we yeah, it's challenging, but we also have opportunity to make it work.

We have no excuse as far as like how how much time we can make for each other during the support we can get and to do our situation.

So yeah, just making each other laugh, you know, just kind of because there's so that there's so much over sort of focus on these kind of the importance and the intense sort of things and the big decisions.

And then it's the same with the kids.

It's like the stuff that really resonates and when you really get along and you really kind of feel like you're just here in this space is when there's there's humor involved adventure, and there's curiosity, when there's openness to kind of make a fool of yourself and self deprecation.

All that I think is that's what you can hold.

You know, there's always that spark and that attraction, but what it comes down to is his friendship companionship at the end and the moment you're run out of things to talk about and you lack that curiosity and interesting one another is you know, that's what it's concerning, and that's it.

You know, you've got to you keep digging, you know, sort of again coming to some arrival or or insisting on a sort of finer conclusion to it is there's a finish line then, you know, and to understanding you don't entirely ever know each other, and you'll continue to try and figure it out.

And as you're trying to figure as you're trying to greater have a greater understanding of yourself as well in that experience, I think is important to keep it the front of your thinking.

You know, it allows you to forgive each other, It allows you to be more compassionate with each other, allows you to have greater understandings for both of your shortcomings and the things we might you know that the less versions of ourselves we might think of.

Yeah, I think it's that that you know has kept us in check.

Yeah.

I love the part of you saying when you still don't know each other, like you still get in to it like that's that's I think, such a beautiful thing if like you're you still believe there's more to know about this person that you see every day and live with, and you still believe, no, there's more to know.

I don't know them fully, and that keeps it fresh and new and exciting because there's an acceptance whereas as soon as you think, oh, I know them and I know their habits and I can kind of predict everything they do, and there is a part of that and that's a helpful thing, like oh, I know when they're tired, and I know when they need space, and I know when they're hungry or hungry or whatever it may be.

And that's helpful, of course it is.

But then it's also the acceptance of I actually don't know them because they're changing and they're growing, and I haven't seen the mother version or the mother of three or the mother you know, there's there's all these iterations that we almost think, well, no people stay the same.

Yeah, yeah, And it is, and it's having a sort of allowance for that and a bit of compassion around you know, do we ever even know ourselves entirely?

You know, how could we ever entirely know somebody else?

But you have to keep reminding yourself to be curious and to sort of embody the humility to go, oh, I don't entirely understand I know that, but that's okay.

I don't have to.

I don't have to, you know, I don't have to entirely.

You know, the sort of a pattern recognition and you have your expectations and someone but having a little more openness to and and curiosity enthusiasm to understand what is it that makes you tick today versus tomorrow versus yesterday, you know, as opposed to thinking I know all of your tricks, you know all am I.

It takes away the sort of presumption I guess we have around each other, which is, you know, it is often cause for complication.

I think you know, I know why you did that.

I don't know why you're going to do this, and I don't know.

It's just like then comes to eye roll in the contempt and then then you're down a dangerous You know.

If else was here sitting right next to me right now, what would she tell me about you that would surprise me?

You don't know, I don't know.

You'd have to ask.

To ask, have interviews.

I'm like, why did you tell them that that's not.

That's the best react to it?

Yeah, good ways and then ways, I'm like, it's not true when you do, I don't know.

Have you had the conversation with your kids about their granddad's also, have you yeah, walked me through that part?

How do you explain it?

How does that conversation?

Yeah, it's it's been really interesting because I they're they're the biggest kind of lessons of the most sort of profound sort of shifts in our sort of our growth, I think as individuals is around confronting moments, and I was it was very important for me to have them understand what was happening and articulate what this meant and also what it meant for me, you know, rather than I guess protect or you know, avoid that situation for them or that discomfort.

I was kind of it was very important, and so when I would talk to them about it, Initially they'd be like, Okay, what does that mean.

Ye he's going to forget his memories?

Okay, And then they'd go and see him and they got Dad's yes, and then they would kind of go He asked me this three times, and I said, well, this is what it is, and now you might have to look after me one day, and this is what we do that this is family, and this is the importance of you know, this connection and the support we have for one another and having compassion for vulnerable challenging times.

And and they've been great with it, you know, they have they have big hearts.

My kids.

I'm so thankful for that, you know, and there is an abundance of sort of compassion there and they're like, okay, cool, what do you need from us?

You know?

Yeah, cool an ul rally and go around and you know, ah dad questions and things and talk about old memories and things I've talked about with them and yeah, and then they'll also be little maniacs not care about any of it on other occasions.

But for the most part, they've they've been really good.

And my son, one of my boys, actually at the screening was really emotional and it really kind of was really surprised, and then he was like in the car and the way home, like got really upset.

He said, I just I just love Craigie so much.

And I said, well, you're still here, you know, make sure you tell him.

And he said, I am.

I want to go around there more, and I want to have more barbecues and ride motorbikes with him.

And it was this great kind of I think, sort of awakening for him.

You know, it was real, but until he saw that the documentary, it wasn't as real.

And his brother, who isn't probably as articulate with his sort of emotions, was it was still affecting him, you know, and both were like, and he was sort of agreeing, Yep, yep, let's go and be with him more and let's you know, let's make the most of this opportunity.

So, yeah, that must have been amazing scene.

Their reaction to it, well, yeah, it was.

It was, and it was I wasn't even focusing on it, you know.

It was I was to write there with my dad, and at the end of it, they were there and in the car and the way home talking and I thought, oh wow, I was sort of just focused on this moment.

But now this is the next generation coming in that sort of the transference from one of the other and the experience of my dad's had had and passed me, and now I passed my kids.

And yeah, it's also the power of just media and storytelling in a way that if we could all personalize in a world where you're not a movie star and you're not making a documentary.

And it's almost like I went to two friends' seventieth birthday parties this year and I've not known them.

I've known them both separately, two two different people, and I've probably known them both for maybe the last ten years.

If that.

So, I've not known them for like sixty years of their life.

I've got to know them in the last ten.

And these birthday parties were filled with people they've known for nearly seventy years.

And it was old friends and of course their kids and grandkids and families, and you know, they weren't huge parties, but they were big in that there were lots of very close people there, teachers and you know, business partners and just just everyone.

And it was so beautiful, like it was such a special thing to attend as someone who's not seventy years old and go, wow, like what an incredible life these two people have lived.

How amazing it is to see them celebrate it, and how and they're not movie stars, and how amazing it is for their families to have made media about them.

So whether it's like a little homemade video of their highlight reel for seventy years, or whether it's messages from over the years.

And I was just like the power and it's like I've only known them for the last ten years, but I'm like weeping at these videos and i haven't even been there for that long, like compared to everyone else in the room, but there's a power to that and how connected we feel when you see someone's story being told, and it makes you wonder how much more we can all do that for our families and the people we love, even if it's not on a big you know, you're not going to a premiere or anything like that.

But how much of a need there is for celebrating people milestone, yeah, for sure, and kind of taking a moment to create storytelling around them so other people can appreciate them better.

Yeah, it is.

It's I think the most important thing to see one another and to be seen and to recognize and other others the beauty and what they have represented, what they have given you.

We don't often, you know, I mean at the milestones and parties and the birthdays and someone we might you know, offer that up, but I don't think we do it enough, you know, And it's it's incredibly important because you you know, without that recognition from someone else, we don't really know kind of our effect on the world.

We don't really you know.

We can assume and think this or that, but for the most part it's a sort of imagined experience, you know, and the actuality of the reality of it when someone else taps you on the shoulder and says, hey, this is incredibly important what you've done, and this is incredibly memorable.

And they had this amazing, profound effect to me, what you said this one time?

We don't I don't think we're as comfortable saying it, or we don't sort of do it as often as we should.

Yeah, yeah, and then yeah, it's a good This was definitely a good reminder of that.

Yeah, for sure to see it and for everyone to recognize that you can do your own version of it.

I think that's kind of what I was the whole time I was watching it.

I was just like, Yeah, I wish I did that with my mentor, and I wish we got the other two and in a good way, not in a not in a painful way, in an excitement everyone else who and you know, doing it with my mom.

I remember a few years ago I interviewed my mom, not on the podcast, but just over dinner.

And it was my sister's thirtieth birthday.

We'd gone away together as me, my mom, and my younger sister, and we just I just interviewed my mom over dinner.

It was one of my favorite things I've ever done, because I learned so much about her that she'd never told me she's seventy hour she was at that point, and it just it was so special just to ask us some questions that she would never tell me the story about, or she wouldn't she never makes her life sound exciting or different or special, and then you get into and you go, your life is all of those things, And yeah, just you know, what a beautiful thing to give people the right vocabulary.

I wonder with with everything you've been saying, what, what's something that you want to get better as as a man?

I want to slow down a bit, you know.

I feel like that I have been sort of chasing something for so long and achieving something and arriving at a point and then quickly replacing it with something else.

And it's afforded me an incredible life, and I've to some wonderful things, but it's I would love to take pause and take stock in kind of this moment more, you know.

And and it's not to say I don't want to keep working and do a trieting things, but I want to be less kind of focused on the outcome of it, you know, and just be there for the experience and be there for the joy and the thrill and the adventure and have a greater curiosity around it without being consumed with the what if it goes wrong portion of things, you know.

But it's a strange thing because, as we've discussed a few times, you know, well can you have one without the other?

But I, you know, I have.

This has made me slow down a lot, you know, with my dad recently.

And I'm looking next year and I have films to do, but I've turned down a lot of things just so I can be here with him more and because I know I'm not going to get ten years down the track and going glad I did those extra three or four films.

I'm going to say, I wish I spent more time with him, and with my mum, you know, and with my brothers and my wife, my kids and family and friends.

And because it's you know, he wake up and years as come by, and it's like it's been fun, but a lot of it it feels like a sort of a blurred polaroid photograph, and I'm like, God, I just kind of remember that, you know.

But I was sort of all consuming and so busy and such intensity and such high emotions and and such got a big risk, big reward payoffs, big big loss, you know, and that's fun, and there's this sort of excitement to that, but I found, I find sometimes there's just pure exhaustion as well, and I just would like to kind of reset a bit and recharge and have a greater amount of sort of stillness and not want so much from a situation, just kind of just be here.

Yeah, is that way?

Coming back here was so important instead of being in La as well?

Yeah, definitely, definitely.

And it was right when I had kids.

We were in LA and we had a big, beautiful house there, but it just didn't feel like and it was chaotic and every time I leave the house or was reminded of work and reminded of what I was doing or what I wasn't doing, and and and that was documented by paparazzi and then plastered across sort of various huge outlets and so on, and it didn't it wasn't fulfilling on a sort of a personal soul level, you know.

It didn't feel nourishing at all.

And we came back here just for just for a holiday, but in a sort of a subtle attempt from me to sort of, you know, convince my wife to move here, and it was it wasn't it wasn't a hard and it wasn't a hard sell at all.

She was instantly like, this will do.

This is pretty special.

Yeah.

Is your dad's transition most hardest on your mom?

Do you see?

For sure?

Yeah, that's the one that I has become really complicated because it's sort of, well, what's scary is she has the same two copies the hypoly for I think it is a high probability of women getting it as supposed to men, so she's in an even higher risk category.

And the stress and the concern that she carries is incredibly dangerous, you know, and detrimental to her health.

And so my brothers and I big attempt to sort of offload that as much as we can, and also watching you know, you don't want to be in a sort of romantic loving relationship and then one have to be a care I'm gone to have to be a patient.

You know.

It's such a tragedy and I think at times that's where that's where the roles have been assigned, and these good days and bad days, But I think not being able to do the things that they used to do and not having the same connect in the same conversations that they used to have, and that there's a beautiful connection and love there, but there isn't the same depth to some of the conversations and the interactions they have now there isn't the same support.

And you know, obviously no one's fault, just the sort of an inability and an incapacity to be there and provide that now because the memory isn't as you know, strong as it was, and it's the short term things are rapidly sort of declining.

So yeah, we're sort of trying to implement a lot of things currently for her health and for his but also trying to allow there to be some autonomy in my mum's life as well and a bit of agency in her space so she doesn't have to feel like she is no the care.

Yeah, it's such a stranger and isn't it.

It's like you're caring for the person who's actually on well yeah, and caring for the person who's caring for the person who's own well.

Yeah.

He's often gets forgotten sometimes.

Peter Ta said it to me when my dad was first diagnosed.

He said, how's your mom?

I said, oh, yes, she's fine.

She's the one i'd be concerned about, you know, because your dad.

You know, we can slow the regression of Alzheimer's sometimes we're yet to sort of reverse it, you know, but once it starts, that's the path you're on.

He said, your mom isn't there yet, isn't isn't you know, it doesn't have a sort of cognitive decline.

But he goes, but this is the environment where it will it will promote or that is the stress and the sleepless nights, the increase in cortsole and that anxiety and concern.

He said, all of those are like, that's the environment for her and now sort of be forced down that path.

So he said, we've got to pay attention there.

And that was a beautiful reminder from him, and he said it a number of times him in contact with him a lot and says, how's your mom doing?

How's your mum doing?

Yeah, she's definitely a big focus.

Yeah, I love that.

Chris has been such a joy talking to you.

Thank you you too, truly just just it's beautiful feeling let into someone's life and heart in this way.

Because it just, you know, puts so much into perspective for all of us to hear you kind of be so vulnerable and so open.

It can't be easy.

And of course seeing the documentary, you just see how much you're letting everyone in.

And we end every episode with the final five.

These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum.

Often we go off piece because I get enthusiastic and excited, but Chris hems with these are your final five.

We ask these to everyone on the show, or at least a few of these.

So question number one, Chris, what's the best advice You've ever received?

Best advice I've received?

I remember being asked this when I was doing Home and Away, this sop from many years ago, and my answer was be kind.

And I remember the journalist at the time mocking me and saying, oh, it's like something you read on It's Teddy Bear or whatever.

But that advice that was given to me my my mum is just be kind to people, be compassionate.

Has stayed true and been my north star through everything I've ever done, and in its simplicity is there's some profound wisdom to it, you know, be kind to yourself, be kind to others.

It's about, as you know, if we embody just that one thing, I think we'll do Okay.

I love that.

Second question, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

I don't know.

Just be what I was afraid of and what makes me nervous?

This I love that, all those tricks I was trying to there's a good anxiety Christian.

Yeah, exactly.

The worst advice I've had many occasions, just one more drink, one more beer.

It doesn't work out.

It doesn't work out, soways.

The worst idea, the one more There was always the problem.

It leads to overweight thought.

It leads overweight thought, It leads the confused thought, skipful for catastrophic thought.

I love it.

Question number three, what do you believe makes a good dad?

Someone who it truly embodies the things they're trying to bestow upon you.

You know, someone who truly represents those virtues that they're trying to teach you, rather than you're talking about it.

Their behavior represents that, and that's been has been my dad.

You know, his actions spoke a lot louder than his words, and he didn't necessarily speak in sort of poetic one liners that were memorable.

It was his the way he walked into a room, and the way he treated people, the way he behaved and held himself and took care of people as compassionate that and he was true to his word and honest and still is and holds a beautiful amount of integrity and love.

And yeah, someone who models their behavior honestly.

Question Numberfore, what do you believe makes a good son.

Being in not just a state of receivership but also giving back, you know?

And I remember when my dad's father passed away.

I was in LA and he called me and I said, oh, sorry about your dad, And I remember him getting choked up, and on the other end of the call kind of thinking, oh, wow, he's crying.

I hadn't really seen him cry, I don't think ever, and very I was sort of listening and okay, how are you right?

And then he started talking again and we changed the subjects and we went and afterwards, maybe a year later, I thought, God, I wasn't there for him, And then as time went on, realizing how important it was for me also to show give recognition and how important he was rather than just him taking care of me realizing I had a part to play.

And so what makes a good son is also the recognition that you have a position and a place to hold in this relationship and it isn't just to be taken care of, it also to to share that responsibility and take care of one another.

It's a convoluted answer.

Yeah, that's beautiful, beautiful.

I feel like we're living at a time where roles are so hard to understand and undefined.

It it's so beautiful to just have like a north star of like as simple as it is to have like, yeah, your dad's a good dad, someone is true to his words and lives by example.

That's a beautiful, simple thing that we can all try to aspire to live towards, as opposed to, you know, complex ideas.

I remember have a friend of mine's dad who who was very well read, and you know, we quote various philosophy and psychologists and things, and it was like, oh, wow, that's a really interesting that's a great thing, and I would take them, but he didn't embody any of it.

You know, as the years went on, I was like, oh, that's it's all talk, you know, it's not action, and just yeah, right, So what I was saying before.

It's you know, it's one thing to sort of be able to spout off wisdom and quotes and so on, but it's like, do you truly when push comes to shove, is that what you're representing or not?

I'm trying to avoid the next question.

We're on question Oh, we did question for We're on question five.

This is it.

This is the one that I told you about right at the top of the show, that you've been thinking about the whole time.

So, Chris, the fifth question that we asked every guest who's ever been on the show.

And by the way, everyone knows this question, and no one ever prefess for it, So don't want fifth and final question.

If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be.

To have a a three day work week or four day maybe to work less?

You know, and I think we would have We think we would work harder and more efficiently when we do, and their entire life wouldn't be around productivity and work work, work, work work.

It would be about hopefully more enjoyable experiences, you know, Yeah, I mean, And the weekends are the weekends and beautiful and needed and wanted and waited for with such anticipation because we've worked, Yes, but I think a day or two less week universally beneficial.

I have no idea how humans signed up to a five day work week.

Can you imagine when that got instated, how everyone just goes, yeah, we're going to I don't know how we did it, Like I don't know how we ever agreed going, yeah, we're all going to work five days a week and in some cases six in some places across the world, like six seven days people are working and maybe church on Sundays.

Mental fatigue and the physical fatigue, and now it's phones and all the otherwise we were sort.

Of you know, now it's twenty four hours, right, there is no.

There is no switching off down brutal.

Yeah, yeah, that's a good look.

I hope you get rid of phones.

Maybe one day when you're when you're Prime minister, or you stay before they work with Australia.

Then you can figure out.

You know, how it goes.

Yeah, yeah, let's know, test it.

Yeah yeah, Chris, it's been such a joy on to talk to you.

Thank you, really wonderful getting to know you on such a deep level.

Thank you for being so open, vulnerable, and so grateful that you're sharing you on your dad's journey and your family's journey with us.

I appreciate your Tom Man.

Thank you very much to watch it.

Yeah, it was definitely worth coming twenty four hours.

Thank you.

It's amazing.

Thank you, thank you, thank you very much.

Appreciate it.

Awesome man, Thank you so much.

Such ak.

If you love this episode, I need you to listen to one of my favorite conversations ever.

It's with the one and only Tom Holland on how to overcome your social anxiety, especially in situations where you're not drinking and everyone else is.

We talk about his sobriety journey and so much more.

He gets really personal.

I can't wait for you to hear it.

It's going to blow your mind.

The quote is, if you have a problem with me, text me, And if you don't have my number, you don't know me well enough to have a problem with me.