I'll never forget this.

Looking at the photo I just took, I hear a loud bang.

That was a gunshot.

And then I look up and I just see panic.

And then I just look to my left Charlie's down.

This felt personal.

So, yeah, this is like the first time speaking about this, about this to the public.

Like my friends, family, know, um, obviously, like co-workers which that's also a pretty crazy story too like so, because I deal with like lieutenants, and they were like they were locked into the story and they had no idea that I was, um, feet away.

Well, yeah, cause I, I went to Utah.

Um, it was just a day trip.

Yeah, cause I, you know I have a full-time job and so only my boss knew about it.

And so I come back Wednesday night and show up to work the next day because I wanted to work.

I was like I'm not gonna stay home, I want to, I want to work.

so yeah, anyway, okay.

So yeah, andrew how's it going?

how's it going, man?

Um, thank you for reaching out first off.

Yeah, this is uh, this is gonna be.

I don't know if it's gonna going to be a deep one.

I want to keep it as respectful as possible for you, for Charlie Kirk's family and everybody he's associated with.

But you were a camera guy that was hired by Charlie Company by Turning Point, turning Point, usa, by Turning Point, and you were standing feet away when everybody saw the shot seen around the world.

Yeah, and you reached out.

I don't know why.

It was like a no brainer for me, I don't know why, cause, like I told you early off off camera, like ABC reached out to me that day and it just seemed a little off and I also wanted to process it and, like today's been a week since it's happened, yeah, and so um, I'm sure you have a lot to process still oh yeah, it's uh, okay.

Um, yeah, dude, we're just gonna have this conversation, sounds good, so let's just jump in.

Who you are, uh, where you're from, yep so, uh, my name is andrewrazzi.

I am born and raised in Boise, idaho.

Oh, native, native, I heard.

That's rare nowadays it is.

Yeah, I got a huge passion for videography and photography at a young age.

You know, my dad was one of those parents that always had his camera out for like holidays, birthdays, sporting events, you name it.

And I was just so intrigued by a camera, yeah, so then you get to high school and I got my own camera, or at least borrowed it from my mom and my friends, and I thought, you know, let's make some of our own videos.

And we thought they were hilarious, but they were awful.

But I like it gave me the the ability to like dive in and kind of understand what the process of making a video is and the whole thing.

And I was like, okay, this is so sick.

And then I think it was, I don't know, my senior freshman year in college, I was at Calvary Chapel, boise, and I heard a sermon where, like, he was saying, like God gave you unique gifts to not just glorify him but other people.

And that was like, well, cause, I'm trying to figure out life, you know.

And I'm like, well, what are my gifts?

And so that's when I started to take videography a lot seriously, uh, or a lot more seriously, and uh, just started practicing and honing that craft and, you know, started doing projects for people for free because I was like that's the best way to practice, right?

Yup.

And so, yeah, just over time getting better and better and just grew this huge, deep passion for photography.

So good for you.

I mean, it's led you down some pretty yes, Pretty crazy roads.

Yeah, Crazy roads, Awesome roads too, I've got sure you know I don't know if you know um click funnels, but like Russell Brunson, so I was his personal photographer for a few years.

Uh, you, you okay you've been around, yeah okay, yeah, good for you.

I love photography and I love young people that are trying to get into it because it is such an incredible field that will take you so many crazy places.

Yes, just from us hiring camera, I I bring guys with me and on adventures and shit, and they're just like, yeah, I'm getting paid for this, like this is the craziest shit of my life, but you know, so it's.

It's an awesome career to.

it's tough, very saturated, but if you you do it right, doing it for free, getting your name out there, building it, it's it's an incredible story to be told and everybody has a story and I want to do that for them, yup, whether it's just like senior photos or a wedding or or an event like.

Every person has this unique story and it's just like I want to be a part of that and let them have that memory forever.

So I love that.

Yeah, so 100, I love that.

Yeah, okay, dude, um, let's dive into it.

Walk me through the day.

You were, obviously it's a crazy event.

I don't even know if you've processed it all yet, because I think today's the one week mark from charlie kirk being shot.

You got hired by turning point, usa to go down and photograph this event, which you were standing feet away from charlie when the shot rang out.

So let's just, let's just let's just dive into it, because there's so many conspiracies, there's so many different angles and everybody knows what's going on and I know you don't even know what's going on because you're just in the audience doing your job and obviously everything unfolded and just pure chaos erupted in those situations which I would imagine it's.

It's a terrifying moment to be in there, especially in that environment of it almost was like a kill box in a way.

I mean, if they, if they wanted it to be way worse, it could have.

So walk me just through that day.

I mean, let's start in the very beginning.

How did turning point reach out?

And just so the audience knows and people can kind of have a or clear, you know you can clear it, clarify, and who you are, where you've been, why why were you down there?

Yeah, well, you know, um, I claim to not be very political.

Um, I just have always been that way.

I do, obviously, lean a lot more conservatively if I had to choose.

For sure, um, but I saw Charlie do his thing um years ago and, like, if you hear him talk, he will call you know, he'll call it a spade, a spade, you know, if he, if Trump doesn't do something he likes, he's very vocal about it.

Um, so I've always loved his view of things.

Obviously, him being a believer was another huge factor for me to just like, okay, who is this guy?

Um, but he was also incredibly smart.

He's just very eloquent with his words.

Um, and he wanted people to have a voice.

It wasn't just about him, it wasn't about the conservatives.

He's like if you have a voice, you should be able to speak, and speak without fear A hundred percent.

And so, um, yeah, I, I was, uh doing some contract work, um, trying to find like a good, steady job, and I went out, reached out to turning point USA um over Instagram and actually didn't hear anything.

Um, but I found out later that one of my friends actually is an event coordinator or event specialist for them.

And I ran into her out in the public and, uh, we caught up and I was like, wait, like you work for turning points, yeah.

And so I was like, if you guys ever need a cameraman, like let me know, I'd love to help out with an event for free, like I just was like I just want to be there, yeah.

And so she's like, yeah, like if we need anything, we'll reach out to you.

And so a few months later, she contacted me.

I don't even think it was a few months later, I think it was like a month maybe, if that.

And she was like hey, yeah, we have.

So this fall we're doing a huge tour and we need you and we just want to do an interview with you to see what you're about and and stuff like that.

And so, um, yeah, I got the interview.

It went really well.

And like, like, right after that, they're like, yep, you got it.

So, um, I was, I was excited, nervous, um, especially with a full-time job, was like I wonder how this is going to play out.

But you know, my, my full-time job has been super accommodating.

Just, yeah, go for it.

And uh, really Okay.

That's cool, yeah.

But yeah, so they gave me I couldn't make every event, so I was going to be, obviously, for Utah and I was going to be at Eugene, oregon, and then San Francisco, um, which I think it was, cal, cal, berkeley, Um, and honestly I was thinking, oh, utah Valley is going to be a piece of cake, like it's just going to be a bunch of bunch of conservative, like-minded people at this event, like it's going to be pretty, pretty easy in my opinion.

But then I was like Eugene's going to be pretty crazy.

In San Francisco I might get a little wild, um, but yeah, so, uh, do you want me to just continue to talk about like?

yeah, bro, just walk, walk us through the day.

Yeah, so I'll ask questions when you're talking, and perfect yeah.

Uh, cause it can be really long winded.

So I want to make sure, uh, I give you time to ask questions too.

So, um, yeah, so we went to Utah state or Utah Valley university, Um, I think around like 8 AM 8 30 AM this is the morning of the morning of yeah, um, just to start setting up, and it allowed me to kind of scope out areas that I think could be really good, uh, places to to do photos I don't want to say shoot, but to do photos.

And so, uh, you know, uh saw what they were, where they were setting up, um, the volunteers they were setting up tent up above and, um, like, honestly, right around nine, 30, like a ton of people just start showing up, and it didn't start until 12.

Really, yeah.

And so, just from that, I was like man, this is going to be a packed house.

And so, um, yeah, my job was just to get photos of people interacting and and, uh, just getting the environment and what that looked like.

And the protesters were already there and, um, I, I decided to like go up to them.

Um, this was probably around like 10, 30 or so, okay, and there wasn't a ton of them there, but there was a good line of them.

And so they see me walking up with a camera, and I'm sure they're thinking, oh, like, great, this is a guy that's going to try and do like a gotcha moment with his camera, but I honestly just went up to them and I was just like, hey guys, like how's it going?

You guys need anything Like you know, um, cause it's going to be a hot day, so I hope you guys have water, I'm hoping you guys just brought stuff to be ready for the day, and they just kind of gave me this look like why are you being nice to me?

And it just kind of like made me realize, like, oh, they need love.

I want them to know that they're they're welcome here, and so, uh, we just I didn't talk about the event, I just like where are you guys from?

And just wanted to get to know them, and they were extremely nice.

Um, just really, really passionate college students that were passionate about what they believed in, which is amazing, um, but yeah, and the total environment, man it was, it was awesome.

That's one of my questions how?

How was the environment that day?

I mean, this is so.

This is Charlie Kirk's first tour back on.

This is his first stop of his new tour.

So, environment, how's?

How's it feel for you?

Well.

So like watching his videos on social media, I don't think you get like the scope of how big some of these things are.

Um, especially like the more recent stuff, they get bigger and bigger and bigger.

And so because if you watch his earlier videos, it's like just a few people in the like asking him questions and but this was like I mean it was, it could have been filled, probably like half a basketball stadium Like there it was packed.

And to see young college students be so passionate about what they believed in in America and I was just like gave me a little bit of chills, I'm not going to lie, but it gave me also like a sense of purpose, of like there's a lot of things going on in this world that it's a lot bigger than me and I just want to be a part of it.

Like and everything.

Everybody had that feeling and I think that's you know every, every volunteer for turning point USA.

They felt like a calling to be there and and to serve um turning point because I think in doing so their mind says, like I'm also serving United States as well, and so it was just really cool to see uh youth um be so passionate about America and what they believed in, so it was electric man.

Charlie did an incredible job of that.

Yeah, he, he was the biggest advocate for Trump for this next generation, and I give him the majority of the credit for Trump even winning the election because of the millions of young Americans and when I say young, I mean do my, my 11 year old knows who Charlie Kirk is right Like she went to they had a youth day, I think it was like the next day or the day after, and I mean there's little kids talking about it there.

So this kid, this guy, left an impact and so from all ages, but the fact that he was able to connect with this young generation, talk to them, give them a voice and the ability to ask questions, nobody did it better.

And and I I feel that was a huge turning point for the election was this, this college?

Because we all know how colleges I mean the indoctrination and how these kids are coming in and leaving.

It's, it's a, it's a crazy thing.

So the fact that he was able to bring so many people to light, so many people, people to, to, to faith and at least start questioning things, that's what I love the most about him.

He just he would hit you with certain things and you're like huh wouldn't make you think so.

That's where I.

I was a huge supporter of what he was doing by going to camps.

A lot of people hated it.

He's just trying to pick on the youth and whatever excuses they would use.

But it's like if we can't have these open dialogues of conversation the most basic form of human interaction we can't have these conversations, then we have nothing.

And if I can touch on that too, because a lot of people would like, oh yeah, why doesn't he debate?

You know someone his own age, just so you know, there was a lot I mean a lot of adults there too at these events.

But also, why not educate the youth?

Why?

not challenge.

Exactly, and that's what college is for.

That's what college was meant for.

It wasn't to I mean, it wasn't trying to indoctrinate anything.

It was just to make you think and learn how to think.

Not think a certain way, but just learn how to think.

Right, that's it.

That's the key statement in that is to learn how to think instead of just being fed, remembering and then regurgitating it.

It's like, oh okay, well, if you, you're coming at me because you believe in this, what about X, y and Z?

Yeah, at me, because you believe in this, what about x, y and z?

Yeah.

And then there were so many things that I not strong beliefs on, but I'd hear him talk about like oh shit, okay, I, okay, I see this angle now.

so 100, I'm with you on that, yeah and so, and again, like he gave you know, um, I mean, it was an open mic for the most part.

They would have people line up and they would be like hey, what are you going to like ask about?

Because they obviously don't want the same question over and over again.

Right?

So, um, but for the most part, it's open dialogue and, uh, he gives you the opportunity to really like.

I think at the the, the tour was called the American comeback tour, but it was like it proved me wrong, and so you like, as the questioner, had to try, try to prove Charlie wrong and to change his mind, which I always like I thought that was interesting.

Um, but yes, as far as like the environment goes, um, it was amazing, like it was absolutely fantastic, like turning point.

Usa did such a good job with um setting up and then the volunteers were absolutely amazing and they were so nice, like, like it was, it was cool, it was, it was a great environment to be part of Um so your job on the ground was getting interaction with Charlie or the audience, both, both, yeah.

So, um, it was so my job, at least for me, like I've done events many, many, many times, and so I want to get the atmosphere.

I want to get like even like a picture of a pride flag on a bike, like that kind of stuff, just candid shots and it's stuff, um, and you know it was great.

And then, obviously, when Charlie showed up we're on a timeframe, like we like he shows up, we've got like an itinerary to follow to a T, and so he'll take photos with the, the chat, the present chapter, or the chapter president of, yeah, the chapter president of, um, the turning point chapter at that university, and then he'll do a group photo and then it's off to doing something which he loves to do, and I could easily see why he loved it.

But it's off to doing something which he loves to do, and I could easily see why he loved it.

But it's, uh, before every um, I guess you can call it debate, because that's what it is but before he started he would grab hats like maga hats and just throw them to the crowd and, uh, he got good at like he has a cannon, it's accurate too.

Yeah, I watched him throw hats like he would point at something and it was perfect, yeah, and he was like and he had.

You can see, like that was so that brought him so much joy.

There's always a smile on his face, always, and so capturing those photos were so cool, um, but like just the way that he engaged with the crowd and like you could tell that as he's doing though doing so he's soaking it into like you can tell that he's like being reminded of, like, why he's doing what he's doing, and so, yeah, that was that was really cool.

Like there was times where I was, in that regards, I was like two feet, three feet away from him, okay.

So if I'm Charlie Kirk in the day of yes, where were you positioned?

So I'm at his.

Here's his mic and he's speaking to the audience.

Where are you?

So I mean I try to get all the angles, okay, so you're roaming, yeah?

Okay.

There's a certain part, um, where they have cameras set up that they're like hey, like cause I was like I don't want to be in your shot, so where can I be?

Um, and they're like, yeah, just be around here or over there.

And way, I was like right here, like, so you're right off his left off his left.

Okay, um, and at times I was about five, six feet away, um, but I was at that position for the first speaker the entire time.

And so, um, that's when the second speaker showed up, I decided, oh, I'm going to get a new angle, new perspective, I want a better shot of the person speaking.

And so I went behind the tent and got to his, like far right, but he was like a little bit ahead of me, so just a little out of my peripheral, okay.

So you're technically like here, yeah, okay.

But then I like started to move in closer and closer because I just again different perspectives, yep, because I just again uh, different perspectives.

And uh, yeah, so I was taking photos of of the um, uh, the second person asking questions and, um, as I was doing so, cause I'm dialed in, like I'm really focused, I'm like honestly, like I'm I'm so focused that I'm not even really paying attention to what Charlie's talking about.

Yeah, you're doing your job.

You're not there to listen, you're working.

I get that.

Then, as I'm taking a photo and looking at like the photo I just took, I hear a loud bang, and it's crazy how your brain tries to rationalize things, cause my first thought was firework, but I've been around firearms my entire life and logic quickly set in and it was like no, andrew, that was a gunshot.

Okay, you're standing off of Charlie's right shoulder.

Ish, that direction.

I know there's a million things that have happened since.

Yes, I have my conspiracy.

Everybody has their shit.

When you heard the crack, did you immediately look in a direction?

Yes, what direction was it?

Where were you facing at this point?

I'm drawing this picture.

I'm facing the same way Charlie's facing.

Okay, so you're facing, technically, the shooter.

Yeah, exactly Right, exactly Okay.

So you're facing the shooter.

Yeah, exactly right, exactly okay.

So you're facing the shooter.

You hear a crack, the shot.

Where did you look?

my right.

My right because, but here's the reason why which would have been the stairwell it would have been.

But that was covered, like security, like that's a thing.

Like I was also with security when they were checking the rounds, okay, like beforehand, that whole side was covered, um, but because I saw, unfortunately I didn, I didn't want to, but I mean I talked to the witnesses there and they had plenty of videos videos that aren't on, like that were closer and after I saw the video I was like that's not from the right, it's a hundred percent from the front.

But where I was standing I was underneath the covering, okay.

So the sound, okay.

So the sound coming off the wall hit my right ear okay, that's how, that's how gunshots yeah, okay.

So it reverberated off and I immediately went to my right, um, because that's just what it sounded like to me.

Okay, um, but after watching a lot of the different videos, it's, it was pretty plain to see that it was from the front.

Okay, so yeah okay, so the shot goes off.

Do you what?

What are you processing at this point?

Are you watching charlie go?

Do you know that he's hit?

You said you're looking kind of at your camera, so I.

So I'm at the camera, I hear the shot process that it was a gunshot, okay.

And then I look up and I just see panic people dunking.

And then I just like, look to my left, charlie's down and his security.

Like I didn't see charlie's body, I saw his security team pick him up and just book it that quick, that quick that's.

That was a huge guest question.

I probably had 15 of them.

How quick did they get him off the x like?

oh, oh, man, a few seconds, like it was.

They were immediate, like they were on it, um, okay.

And then it was after that I was processing, like, and it's crazy how I thought this, but I was like I'm in the line of fire Cause I was right there, like for sure, like I don't know where this guy's at, I don't know how many there are.

So my immediate reaction was there was cars behind me.

So I stopped and looked and I saw a bunch of people Like I started panicking inside, but then, once I saw other people panic and start crying, I knew I was like I can't do that, like there has to be somebody that's calm, collected, and so I was telling people to come with me really quick, get behind cover, and I still have my camera in hand, uh, but yeah, we were all down um, because we didn't know if, if the shooter was still active, if he was mowing other people down, um, and that was probably the most terrifying.

Terrifying part of the whole thing is no for sure.

But fortunately there was also police officers and like ahead of us.

And first of all, thank you, first responders, because you guys are amazing.

Uh, because I could even see the look of fear and panic on cops, like they don't know what's going on and so, um, but again, they don't care, they answer the call, you know.

And so, um, there was, there was some security there, like, okay, at least we have, you know, guys that are armed on our side, right, um, and then I don't know man, like they.

So this was also kind of a crazy part.

So they immediately arrested a guy and I had my camera 80 year old man, 80 year old man, bald, and I had my camera and I just started taking photos.

Okay, this is my next question.

After the shot you process for a second quick panic mode after the shot you process for a second quick panic mode, do you go back to photographing?

I only took photos of that particular thing for evidence purposes okay I did not do any photos after the fact.

Okay, I thought my, my immediate reaction was put your camera away, go check on people, make sure people are doing okay.

Um, cause that was my priority at that point.

Like it wasn't, hey, I've, I'm going to try to get photos for X, y, z, it's.

There are people here that are not okay, that are well, there's children.

There's children like.

There's women walking around with babies on their chests, like I didn't even think about doing photos.

For that reason I respect that.

I just wanted people to make sure I was didn't even think about doing photos.

For that reason I respect that.

I just wanted people to make sure I was.

I just wanted to make sure people were okay, um, at that point, um, but once the the cops said, hey, like, like, oh man, the cops showed up every like.

That's the thing that was so crazy.

And this was actually not my first experience with um.

I got robbed at gun point when I was working at u Okay, and so, um, maybe that's why I'm able to process everything a little bit better.

But, like, even then, like the cops, first responders, like they were there quickly and so, yeah, like, police vehicles left and right were showing up and the SWAT team showed up and how quick?

oh man, if I had, if you could put a time on.

I know fog of war, shit skirt going crazy your mind's process and everything, what.

What would be the timeframe that you would think it was?

There were minutes.

Okay, I, I heard and I haven't seen, but they said that there was no ambulances there.

Can you confirm that there was any first responders as far as that aspect of they had medics on site.

Okay, medics I can't, I don't, I can't recollect if uh if there was actually ambulances on spot, okay, um a lot of people claim that they never, they didn't see any of that.

There was a ton of police vehicles there though, um, but yeah, I added from my recollection, I recollection I don't remember because I remember walking past tents where there were medics on staff and there, so but I don't remember seeing to my recollection ambulances, but that wasn't even like on my mind.

I just I heard it was a bit like I heard all these people talking about, oh my god, they wouldn't have any ambulances, so I wasn't obviously having boots on the ground.

That was a question that people were asking me as well, like, hey, find out if that was it.

So charlie goes down within seconds, he's off the x, they got him out of there.

Then this old man stands up, which is crazy because, like he was saying shoot like, shoot me.

I did it like I want to die, like and those weren't words that I heard.

It was everybody around him that told me that.

Cause I talked to other witnesses because obviously I have pictures of the event.

So therefore I'm like I've got evidence, potential evidence, right, that's how I viewed my photos after that and so, um, yeah, I went up to a cop, a police officer, and I was like, hey, like I was a photographer here, where do I go?

Cause I have potential evidence.

Cause that's all I could think about was like I want to help.

Yeah.

And so he said, yeah, we're we're having people that saw stuff in this general area and so I went over to make sure they were okay.

And they were saying, yeah, that's the old guy that got arrested.

And I was like, looking through the photos, I was like there's no way that was him there.

I was like there's no way that was him, there's just like.

That was my first reaction, even like when I was taking the photos I was like I don't know, I highly doubt this guy did it Really.

Yeah, immediately, immediately.

It's so strange to me because this is where we get in the rabbit holes, which I tried.

I'm trying not to in this conversation because I have my strong.

I've.

I've kept quiet for a week, gathering, watching, not trying to jump to anything, because we all know how the internet works.

We know the knee the knee jerk reaction and I hate the fact that all these people are like posting their own videos with like Charlie's voice.

So we're trying to like get clout from it drives me, it's, it's disgusting to me.

So I'm just watching and one of the biggest things immediately that stood out to me was this old man and the fact that he stood up and did this.

For for what?

Why?

Why in somebody's mind, when someone is just murdered, do you stand up?

Only thing that I can, my mind can, think of is that that's a distraction.

Who in their, who in their right mind, stands up and tries to take the fall and make this huge scene?

I did it.

Shoot me, shoot me.

I mean there's videos of him coughed as they're dragging him under the tunnel where they, where they took charlie out and he's yelling this um so make that make sense?

it't make sense.

But according to everybody that was around him, he was saying weird stuff the entire day, like just, he was just kind of like the old senile guy Right Like um, and looking through my photos I did actually get a photo of him in the crowd.

He's just eating a hot dog, just chilling Like, but like also, um, I know you've been around firearms for a very long time.

You can tell a nine mil versus a rifle, like for as far as the sound it makes.

Sure, and I knew that wasn't a nine mil and so that means he had to have a bigger gun and there was nothing on him.

Yeah, like they would have it.

Would he thing on him?

Yeah, like they would have it, would.

He wouldn't have time to put that away like there was nothing the second.

I heard in the.

The second it's all unfolded right for from.

Obviously you're on the ground.

I'm just watching this unfold.

I don't even think it was aired on the news yet and I told her it was suppressed and it came from the right side.

I personally, to this day, don't think that he was shot in the front and the reason I think that is because I have shot a lot of animals.

I've spent a whole lifetime 41 years, of just putting things in the dirt.

I use huge bullets.

I use little bullets on whatever I'm using.

My opinion on this.

If you're going to take a round here, wasn't straight on.

Okay, there there's jugular.

Is what ripped out of them?

Unless you can confirm otherwise, I personally feel there would have been a minimum baseball size hole on the back of his neck, especially if they're claiming a 30-06 from 200 yards.

Yeah, that centrifugal force is going to take everything out the back.

I've shot all kinds of things.

Yeah, head, neck shot, shoulder shots, everything.

I told her before there was even any of this.

I'm talking within minutes.

Suppressed rifle.

I thought initially it came from the back just by the centrifugal force and watching.

I've watched a lot of footage.

I've watched a lot of people die in videos and gunshots.

I've.

I'm one of those people.

I analyze, I watch slow, I'll slow mo it just to see how bodies react and I'll show her all the time.

Lights out that dude's immediate, I can tell the second someone's lights are out in them.

There was no doubt in my mind that charlie was dead that day.

Immediately I will die on this hill that that round came in here and that was shrapnel shrapnel that came out here and shrapnel that came out of shirt.

Because when that centrifugal force hits you, it locked him in that push.

You got to think of how fast even a five, five, six rounds moving.

It's like getting hit with a cinder block and that locked him.

And then when he fell that way, I told her I go, he got shot from.

I thought initially before I watched in slow mode and frame by framed it, I thought he got shot here.

That's where I was.

So I'm just saying and I'm not yeah, this is just obviously I'm not there, and so this is where it's so crazy to me, because you have a 30 out six which we haven't found any rounds.

They didn't do the the autopsy on them, like nobody's seen anything of that yet.

There's been no, no round found.

The whole entire thing is built.

They're doing the construction on the site of where Charlie was killed.

It's already under construction within days.

Huge red flags to me.

If somebody of this statue of a political figure is murdered in front of thousands of people, I feel like that whole stadium would be shut down until for at least a week or two, doing this investigation, finding everything, just a lot of weird shit to this, and this is where I want to have this conversation with you, because it's like I want answers, right, and I know a lot of people do, and I know you don't have them because this is just your point of view.

So a lot of questions that people asked.

Do you think there was more than one shot?

No, okay, I don't, I know that's that was.

So they put us in a holding room, and that was one of the things that I kept thinking about.

One shot what do you mean?

A holding room?

So like.

They had us like, not not as so like, once SWAT was clearing the building, they had us basically in the dean's office At least that's what it looked like to me, okay, but they had myself and other cameramen and just other people that saw things in this room and they wanted to wait until the whole university was cleared by SWAT before asking questions.

And so, as I'm sitting there going through my, my photos, I get, I just kept thinking like, um, there's a few things I was thinking about, but one of them was just one shot.

Okay, it was just one shot, because if you look back on the uh assassination attempt with Trump, there was like two or three, yes, um, and that made me think, okay, this this person was Um, and that made me think, okay, this this person was has at least some experience with a rifle, um, which I.

I've heard that this uh, that the person that they did apprehend, did go hunting quite often.

So I don't, I don't know, like, I don't know as far as like.

I find it hard.

That's one for me where I can't get down that one, because unless they were robotic, like remote controlled the fact that you're going to with human error and delay, unless these dudes are the most trained assassins on the planet to break a trigger at the exact same time, that to me I'm like, okay, we're stretching there.

Yeah, so how familiar.

I mean, are you an avid shooter?

Do you shoot guns?

I mean, are you an avid shooter?

Do you shoot guns?

I mean, did you grow up in this world?

Yeah, I mean I did firearms for I did photos for a firearm store, midstar Firearms in.

Middleton Okay.

Okay, I did photos for them quite often, so you've been around a lot of firearms.

Yes, yeah, knowing suppressed versus unsuppressed.

Obviously, video distorts a lot with sound and all that stuff.

To me immediately I went suppressed really was how loud was it in there?

it was loud okay, I didn't think it was suppressed okay, okay, because I've like shot guns, um, that have, that are suppressed, and specifically bolt action rifles, and there's a, there's like a sound like, but it's loud but not like like, um, like a, not not like a gun.

If it wasn't silence, if that would make sense, yeah, um, and this was this to me sound like just an any other gun in a firing range.

Okay, so, okay, that to me that that's a big one, because to me canon like it's gonna be loud inside there, but on video it's like a and then you hear it.

So it was loud.

Okay, that's, that's.

That's another question.

That's why I was like that wasn't a nine mil like I knew it was a bigger, bigger firearm for sure so.

So once they have you in, okay, the shot goes off, everybody hits the ground.

You're getting everybody off the scene.

I mean, there's probably coming out of that.

I've seen videos of them running out of that.

There there was a tunnel right behind him.

Is that where you were?

Yeah, because there were some cars parked there, like SUVs.

Okay, so you're right there, right, right behind the booth.

The booth would have been almost right in this angle, it was yeah.

Right out and to your left, if you would have walked out of the tunnel.

It's kind of right here, people are flooding out.

That's where the guy was arrested and apprehended.

The old man.

I'll see you now, man.

Oh, they brought him out.

Okay, that tunnel.

Okay, how long until FBI or law enforcement kind of grabbed you guys, because people are obviously flooding and running every direction.

It's pure chaos at this point.

Oh man, Like how, how quickly did they arrive?

Well, no, how quick did they get you guys?

And they start getting on the scene.

It was quick, like they obviously, like I don't know the protocol in which they do things, especially this type of situation, but it seemed very fast in my mind, okay, and like, again, credit to the first responders because they handled the whole situation so well, in my opinion, from where I could see, especially not knowing if it was one shooter, two shooters, like they don't know, they don't know if this was you know, just they don't know what type of gun it is, like they don't know, they don't know where he's at.

So the fact that they were still like we're here to serve and protect For sure, like that was amazing.

Nobody likes the cops until they got to do their job and everybody's like oh, look at, they're doing great.

Yeah, it's, but no, they were absolutely amazing.

Um and swat showed up and it looked like just a mini militia, which was really cool to see from my, from my perspective.

But, um, they were ready to go and they it was quick, like um.

But yeah, people were in the hallways.

Uh, you know, there was one guy in particular.

I'll never forget this, um, but this big dude just tatted up looked really intimidating.

Like I walked up to him cause he had his phone and he's like I got it on video.

I got on video and I was like, hey, I'm like calm down and I look at him and we make eye contact.

I'm like, are you okay?

And he just breaks down, he goes, no, I'm not okay.

And so I just gave him a hug because what else can you do, are you okay?

Yeah, I mean, it's going to be one of those things where you know I've uh, my work provides a trauma therapist for first responders, and so I immediately talked to him my first day and I'm not kidding you, man, like I I told some lieutenants and this trauma therapist and they, like they took turn pale when I told them that I was there, like, and especially how close I was and they're like the amount of holy fucking shits that I got from people.

Just yeah, like that was basically their the reactions.

But he he asked me if I had experienced something like this before and I told him I was robbed at gunpoint when I was working at us bank.

He's like, okay, so like there is something like this not your first time in, like, technically, a life or death situation, but I really do believe that like I'm able to be so composed because I think I believe personally that God wants me to tell this story, which we definitely will talk later on on this podcast but like being able to cause my friends.

They're like dude, we were freaking out at home, like how are you doing?

How are you so calm, how are you okay?

And I'm like, I think, because I know people have been praying, I think God's really been protecting my heart and all of this and keeping me sustained so that I can have a voice and can talk about this without, I guess, hesitation.

Yeah, it's honestly.

You know, I, when my wife watched the video the first shot, she was like oh, and immediately she's like what the fuck did?

I just watch, and how her and I have talked about is I feel how our country feels right now of watching this man executed.

That we all know, love or hate.

We all know him.

We've watched him grow up into this political figure that he is.

I feel where we are as a country right now and what everybody's feeling is what our law enforcement are dealing with day in and day out.

You just got a glimpse of what combat veterans are dealing with, what cops are dealing with with our first responders and firefighters, and that's the trauma we're feeling, trauma right now.

This country has a blanket of trauma on it, of PTSD, whatever you want to call it.

We just watched the most documented execution of our lifetime and everybody's just like back to normal because we scroll and we're watching these Ukrainians and Russians blow each other up and throw grenades at each other and droning people.

We've we've been so numb and just killed on the inside with just this, our social media and what these feeds are, and we just watch this happen in front of this man and his wife and children are standing feet away and nobody knows how to process this and it's, it's, it's a I mean the the fact that it's just on every feed.

You can't open anything without seeing this dude take a round to the throat, and it's horrible, and so it's very interesting.

That's why I want to ask if you're good, because I know you're able to talk about it and I'm glad that you're talking to somebody and obviously being able to talk on this show, because it's you went.

That's a lot, it's, it's a heavy load and there's thousands of people there that day that are sitting home right now and they're not.

They don't know how to process this.

So it's, it's, it's scary just thinking about the children that were there, the families, the people that are just there just to support and they believe that there's something great coming on and they want to hear him talk about christ and gun rights and trance, whatever his topics were going to be asked that day.

They just want to hear an open dialogue.

That was it.

Yeah.

Do you?

Did you pick up on any red flags that day?

Was there anything that stood out to you?

They were like, uh, yeah really, I had one thought.

I I don't want to admit this, but when I was walking, because, like uvu, uh, where we're at, um, I mean, we're just basically like a fish in a fishbowl, like it was a perfect everyone was elevated and behind, so, like above, where charlie crick were speaking, was like this walkway is like a bridge, essentially because there was a tunnel underneath, but I'm up there taking photos and I had a thought, and the thought was the roofs, like they're not no one's covering them, um, so you saw nobody on the roofs.

We had people on roofs like that.

We thought like people could get to, but like even like further out, I was like I just I just, it was just a thought, and you mean people, as in just the security.

Oh, okay, yeah, so security.

they were on like around um they weren't just like all around Charlie, um, they were spread out.

So you did see security on on certain rooftops yeah.

Look into the bowl.

Yeah, okay, like with with where other people were.

Um, but because, like in my mind, like this is just someone coming to a college campus.

He's not even a, he's not running for Congress, he's not running for an elected position, he's literally just trying to have discourse with people and make them feel comfortable having discourse.

And so the last thought I even had was someone coming up with a gun, even though I know Charlie's been very open about how many death threats he gets.

Um, that was never like.

That, never really was an issue.

I never really thought of that.

Even coming to these events, I thought, okay, the worst that we'll probably get is people trying to like tear posters down, like that was it.

Um.

But yeah, I just had a split second thought.

And another thing that really my, my the trauma therapist said please don't play the what if game cause.

It's going to eat you up if you do for sure, but I did have my drone with me and the university did not give us the okay to use our drone, cause I wanted a cool aerial shot of like the whole event, yeah, and I had this split second like I'm just going to do it, I'm going to do it.

But then I was like, nah, I don't want to, I don't want to get turning point USA in trouble, like I want to respect the rules.

But I just keep thinking if I had put up my drone, there is a good chance I would have caught him or at least distracted him something, and so that obviously isn't healthy to uh play that type of game.

But it's just one of those things where it's just like I I feel like more could have been done, maybe not from charlie's standpoint with security, but just um, I don't know.

Like that's just one of those things I guess didn't think about.

As far as hearing you say that there was security on the rooftops where other people were.

How would they have not have picked up on this guy?

Because he went through a first speaker.

He was on his second speaker, correct, like?

just minutes in yeah, just started.

Yeah, you would think like, unless this kid was laying up there hours prior yes, somebody was yeah, but I.

That's the thing where it's like I don't know, like I, that's something that I will never know.

Um, and like, when it comes to like the conspiracy things, man, it's like to me.

I can say this he was not wearing a vest.

I was right there with him.

Charlie wasn't charlie's not wearing a vest.

It was was right there with him, charlie wasn't.

Charlie was not wearing a vest, it was.

He was wearing like.

The only thing he had underneath the shirt was a necklace.

That was it.

That was it.

A lot of people talked about this black thing moving across.

That was a mic on his chest.

Can you confirm what that?

was.

I didn't even see a mic on him.

All I saw was just the necklace like there I have.

Because I did the photos, I edited the photos, you know color, put a color on them and like I went through each photo very like, vigorously, like he's just just a nor, he was just wearing a shirt, that was it because in the video you can see like a black square here which I would say oh yeah, so that was for for the, sorry that it was for like the live stream and stuff like that, so okay.

Yeah, okay.

So he did that because the people were like, oh, the black thing moves across, that's where that's where I can't get into those.

Like he was wearing?

He was wearing a road mic.

Yeah, and that's what I.

Okay, just the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the going status quo, like everything, and this was my first event with them, so it's not like I have a experience prior to that, um, from other events that they've done, but everything was going well, like everything looked good.

Uh, security team was amazing, like they.

I my heart goes out to them.

Yeah, uh, they're a bunch of just amazing guys.

Um, yeah, and you never want to have a client go down.

It's very unfortunate.

So you can confirm.

So this was one of my thoughts at first was me obviously immediate.

The second I saw everything go down.

I was like that's it.

I told her that's an exit wound.

But what I was trying to make it make sense was I'm like maybe he had you, you know, those thin ballistic shirts and maybe it hit and deflected.

So you're just saying you can confirm that he just had a normal shirt on.

Yeah, okay, that's it so I also had.

I watched some guys, these snipers and military dudes, and they're all, he's got a vest on it, the round hit and deflect.

I I couldn't buy it.

On that one.

I was like, man, it just looks like a normal, because maybe if it was a button up and you could tell he was a little bit thicker, like the president's where they wear those thinner ballistic shirt, everything's ballistic.

I was like, maybe, maybe we can stretch that one, but just a necklace under a shirt because, like, people were giving him hugs, like when they're doing photos with him prior, like, and you know, it's a shirt, it's pretty easy to see through, and so like, yeah, it was just necklace.

So after the shot rings out, they got you.

How long was it until they were investigating or asking you guys questions?

Oh man, being in that room felt like a long time.

Who did they have in there with you?

Just other some of the security teams, other Turning Point members, just other uh some of the security teams, um other turning point uh members, um camera crew, other eyewitnesses, um, basically cause they were gathering up the witnesses and so you know they wanted to keep us safe and so they kept us in this.

Um, it was an area of the building where there was like a lot of like multiple rooms within this area, like um, but yeah, while just the SWAT team was was clearing out, so but it felt, I mean, it felt like a long time, but I can actually give you an exact estimate um maybe 30, 45 minutes.

What were some of the questions that they were asking you after everything went down?

So, um, basically, like they had brought, talked to other people they never asked, talked to me specifically at that time.

Okay, they just said, if you saw anything that we don't already know, like come up to us All.

I said, like I have pictures, Like cool, Well, like we'll definitely contact you, Um, but you didn't see anything that like, like I was.

This is where I was like okay, so, um, but then, like, detectives later that day called me like hey, like before you leave, can you come down the station?

And, um, can we like download the photos?

And I was like yep, that's absolutely a hundred percent Okay With me.

So, and that that those like those, you know, they were saying very similar things like you like this is, they said, under the Trump administration, they've been, they were, they've been being as far as like, how they've been treated out in the public, um, way better than when Biden was in presidency.

Really.

Yeah, um, but yeah, they, they've seen some stuff and, um, in fact, one of the cops was like I hate guns Cause I had to, you know, unfortunately uh, kill someone like five feet in front of me and that haunts me to this day.

I'm like that should, that should haunt you, that's awful.

He's like we have to have them, but at home he's like, ah, so like it's just hearing other cops perspectives on things has been really interesting, um, but where was his wife in kids when this all went down?

So I didn't, I didn't see him there.

I've everybody said that, everyone says that I never saw them.

I feel like if I would have gotten a photo of them just because that's what I do I mean, like that's a huge moment to get on camera If they were there, then I just missed them.

But I, in my mind, I thought I never saw them.

So I can't confirm or deny that I didn't see them there, even when, like under the tunnel, where Charlie, like all of us, like the, I think some of the oldest members of turning point, were over there, and so I didn't see his wife, I didn't see kids, like his kids at least, and so, um, but I could have just missed them.

What a crazy, yeah, absolutely horrific thing.

This is yeah there there's go ahead.

I was just going to say, um, as awful as this is, um, there's been a lot of good that's come from it, too, already.

Give me examples.

So one of the things that I keep and this is honestly the biggest thing I keep thinking about was probably five minutes before the incident happened.

Charlie was talking to the first person asking questions and they were talking about theology and just between the difference between the LDS church and Protestants, and Charlie was like, listen, we're not going to agree and that's okay.

I still love you, but this is what I believe.

And he said Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins because he loves us.

Three days later he rose up from the grave to defeat death, to defeat sin.

And he said and at the end of the day, jesus Christ is King.

And I don't know off the top of my head, historically speaking, I don't know how many people on this earth can say that they were able to proclaim the gospel minutes before leaving this earth.

For sure, but charlie did.

and in my mind I was like, yeah, he just preached that to thousands of people, but because of social media, that reach was probably hundreds of thousands of people millions exactly, and you know I get chills thinking about that and, uh, one of the last photos that I took of charlie, um, that I've only shown a handful of people, um, I actually sent a letter to his wife with this photo, um, but he is, has this huge, huge grin on his face, just like, like, not just a smile, like he's loving what he's doing.

And one of, and like, when I first saw the photo, it broke me Like I, not out of like sadness, but just like I had this image of him seeing Jesus for the first time, with that same smile, with that same joy, and Jesus coming up to him saying hey, my child, like you are home and well done, my good and faithful servant, because you finished the race and you finished it strong, amen, huh, and that just kind of left me with this question of what next?

What do we do with this?

That's the biggest question.

That's that's where I'm having the hardest time processing this, because we live in a world of just full of hate and evil.

Yeah.

And he was such an incredible person of bringing people to faith and, like I said earlier, even if you're not converting and you're not kneeling at the cross, he opened up the dialogue that made people think yeah.

And he made people bold, he made people think yeah, and he made people bold and gave them a voice.

And he, he drove people to start questioning and, okay, like, if I'm on this planet, what is my purpose?

Why?

Why do?

Why are we?

here.

Why do I believe what I believe?

you know yeah and the fact that he was pulled from us, from from from being this disciple or being who he was.

It's like I want to be like why, Right?

Like we can use him, especially in a time, right now, where it's just everything is just so demonic and evil on everything All the platforms, the games, the apps, everything that is being fed to our kids, our public schools.

It's just pure evil.

And he was this, just this beacon of hope and light and change and just just an all-around great.

Take politics out of it yeah, you, yeah, I mean I'm, and so he's yeah he's gone right like they, they, they kill this dude.

for whatever the reasons are, whoever did it right?

And that's why, to me, at the end of the day, the conspiracies don't matter, because we lost a life.

That was the end result of it.

We lost a life, a father, a husband, another believer, so the whole body.

I believe that's why we're so mourning, because this felt personal, for sure the fact that people hated him so much because this this felt personal, for sure um the fact that they people hated him so much because he talked about his beliefs which is wild to me because, like that's one of the best things about america is the fact that we have we're a huge melting pot, right, like we have different cultures, we have different beliefs.

No other country can really say that, because all most other countries they kind of you know affirm to the same beliefs muslims, whatever america has just a crazy amount of different cultures and beliefs and I know, like this again I'm gonna preach this, but charlie wanted to not just make america better and safer by having these conversations.

I know he truly, from the bottom of his heart, wanted people to know who jesus was, because, at the end of the day, that is what is the most important thing on this earth yeah there was a video of him that I know has made its rounds for sure about him being asked by another person at one of these events saying, hey, like if someone was dying in 30 seconds, what would you tell him's?

Like you're about to meet your maker.

Like you're about to be judged.

Like you are about to see God, and like, if you don't know Jesus Christ, like right now, like this would be the best time to do it, and so, um, that's just put, like that's kind of been on my heart of like what's next?

Because we're all human beings, I be, um, that's just put, like that's kind of been on my heart of like what's next, because we're all human beings, I be, yes, obviously I'm a Christian and I believe that we are made in the image of God.

Therefore, we have intrinsic value, we are worth everything because he gave it everything you know, and so, therefore, I don't care if you are a believer or not.

You matter.

You're seen, you are loved, and I being there and talking with the protesters.

This is not and I want to make this very clear, because I know there's a lot of angry people, rightfully so, but it matters what you do in your anger and this is not a left versus right situation.

This is not a Republican versus Democrat issue.

This is not a conservative versus liberal issue.

This is not a Republican versus Democrat issue.

This is not a conservative versus liberal issue.

This is a heart, fundamental issue.

We are sinful human beings in need of a savior and that's why Jesus Christ died on the cross.

Man Good versus evil, and so like, in my opinion, what's next?

Start treating each other like human beings that are worth it all because he gave it all.

I think that is how we start mending this nation.

And you don't have to preach the gospel necessarily.

You can just view someone and say, hey, like what's your story?

But we have to be intentional with that.

Right, like we can't.

Just, you know, my pastor always says this community is made, it's not found, you don't just happenstance by it's intentional.

So if we want a community, we have to be intentional with people, which means we have to get in their mess.

We have to sit with them in their mess, help them process, help them feel seen, but also have that balance of truth and grace.

And I think Charlie did that really really well.

He mastered that, yeah, that you can bring complete opposite worlds and try to find common ground.

And if he couldn't, it was okay.

Yeah, but I, I, this is where we've gone so far as a nation and we're so divided that we can't even sit down and have these conversations anymore.

Yeah, because they're they're nope.

This is it, and I'm guilty of it in certain things, absolutely, and I have my beliefs and, like you're a Christian, I, I, we're.

This is a Christian home and we are believers a hundred percent.

This is where, as a human, I'm like okay, he was making such an impact, he was changing lives, he was saving lives, he was bringing people to the greatest story ever told.

Why allow him to be taken at such a prime time?

this is where, as a as a human being, right the wise and it's just like if god had this.

This is where you know I'm being honest, I love it.

This is real, yeah it's just like god we could have used him.

He was such a tool, I mean in a positive way.

Yeah, sorry you say.

You know, if you listen, he was such an asset, he was such an incredible person not even in his beliefs I'm.

I'm at this phase of my life where there's no democrat and republicans it's it's all one, or just have two parties that are all just being paid to just fight each other.

He found this middle ground and so that's where I can.

I can get behind him on on everything that wasn't granted his beliefs, just like us.

And I tell people all the time if I have to vote, I'm going to vote more right, just because that's where my, my political beliefs have to go and my spiritual beliefs, my religious beliefs, like everything, leans toward that.

I don't believe in a lot that the left has, but I'm not saying the right is right, right correct yeah but where he was at with it was just spreading the word and that's where it just it kills me.

It's like he was saving and you, you see these, these churches, and they're talking about the next day.

I mean all these people, hundreds of people, walking up and giving their lives to christ people that haven't been to church in years or ever are saying reaching out, are going, hey, like I'm gonna give this church thing a try, and not just church, but christ.

Like christ is knocking, like anybody watching this Christ is gently knocking at the heart of the door of your heart and he just wants that relationship with you.

And, uh, because I know cause life is hard, like this last year for me has been one of the hardest um years of my life.

Like my birthday was September 9th, like the day before all this happened, right, and so, um, we're all going through really hard stuff and I want people to be curious about other people, like ask them how they're doing, not just like, hey, how's it going?

Like truly compliment somebody on something you have no idea what that will do, just, I don't know.

Like just being kind, like a good human being, like you don't have to be a believer to do that, but just recognize that we're each humans, like each and every single one of us, and we all have a lot of stuff that we're going through.

Life is not easy, um, but I know that we're not only supposed to have a lot of stuff that we're going through.

Life is not easy, um, but I know that we're not only supposed to have a relationship with Christ.

He made community for a reason and we're supposed to do it together.

Um, so how do we do that on a gigantic scale like America, right?

Um, but yeah, just after my interactions with the protesters, I was like man.

Those are awesome human beings, man like they're just humans.

They're just, they're just they're fed a different algorithm yeah but if you really think about it.

Yeah, if you really break down how scary it is.

They live in a different algorithm.

They're fed completely different stuff.

I'm not saying what's right or what's wrong.

They just they have different beliefs.

They're they're seeing different propaganda, from whatever side it is, and that's what they truly believe in, but it doesn't mean they're a horrible person now, if you're.

If you're out there and you're burning stuff and you're torching cities and you're vandalizing, you're just doing that for just to get to be able to get away with.

I can't get behind that.

But if you want to stand out somewhere and you want to voice your opinion on what you believe in, I have I.

I fought for this country.

For that reason, protest yeah, absolutely protest I have, I'll drive by protest.

I fought for that.

Yeah, I, as a us veteran, have no problem with anybody protesting anything.

It's when it goes to the extreme or torching cars and cities and local businesses and costing your cities hundreds of millions of dollars.

That's where I can't get behind that type of stuff.

But the fact that you can go out and you're sitting here like, yeah, I walked out and charlie kirk had a bunch of protests and I went and talked to him.

They're great people charlie kirk was fighting for this, for, like, the ability for us to talk, like think about all the podcasts that are out there right now.

Like he fought for you guys, like he wanted everybody to know that they have the ability, even Bernie Sanders, which I don't really agree with anything that he says, but he came out and he was like, one of the few political people that didn't make it political.

He even said that, like, I don't agree with anything that Charlie Kirk says.

However, we have a fundamental belief that the first amendment should not be infringed.

Like, if we, if our voice gets taken away, what do we have as a, as a country?

Nothing, nothing.

And so the fact that Bernie was like I'm so like he was on board with what Charlie was doing as far as fighting for everyone's ability and freedom to have free speech, says a lot like, like, and he got shot for it.

That's the hardest part, easy to me that's the hardest part for me to process is that, um, uh, this man was killed for just opening up dialogue and speaking on his beliefs, that we're here as a country that we've been so divided, we've been so just overwhelmed with the hate and the evil and the propaganda and everything that our news and our media and everything that is being fed, everything that is fed all day, every day, and these people, it consumes their life and it turns them to the point where you hate somebody so much for him just trying to bring people to Christ, trying to get you to learn how to think that we're killing people over that now.

This is where it terrifies me for my children's future, because if we're here now, we're not getting any better.

I don't see this country turning around anytime soon.

As long as the mainstream media is controlled by who it's controlled by, and they're able to operate that the way that they are, with just putting out just pure, just vile hate on everything and everything that's not on their agenda, everything and everything that's not on their agenda, we're always going to be divided.

When it comes down to our police, our military, where we spend our money, our attack, everything, I mean we're fighting over everything and look at, we're in the streets protesting and beating people up.

Now I mean, you got people that are trying to tear down memorial services and in these what are these?

Candlelight services?

They're going in there destroying shit Like you have that.

We have that much hate in us.

I don't know one person and I would never associate one person if they would go out and conduct themselves like that.

It just in a rational mind.

But we've driven, we've pushed and pushed and pushed.

We're so divided where now it's like you hear somebody talking about I love Bernie Sanders behind you.

You're going to look at him and be like, oh, these fucking people, right.

Yeah, yeah.

I was one identity politics man I was one.

Yeah.

Now I'm like oh, it's both sides, there's, there's, no, there's no difference to me.

No difference except for one these.

I heard a guy explain this the other day and it was the most incredible way of explaining politics to me.

He goes imagine if you're in a restaurant and you have two waiters.

You have a waiter and your waiter's to serve you, and then there's another waiter serving another group of people over there, but both of those waiters are fighting each other to stop you from serving your food.

And I'm like, okay.

And he's like would you ever go back to that restaurant if you had a waiter that's fighting against your waiter to bring you everything?

And instead of bringing you your steak, he brings you a frozen hot dog.

You're just going to accept it.

It's like that's where we're at as a country right now.

We have two parties that are fighting each other over everything, where nothing's being accomplished, and I'm like that that's exactly it.

You see, these people, people, oh, the left, and blah, blah, blah, these radical Republicans.

And it's like we're no different.

We're no different.

We're fighting these extremes, except we can't come together on a middle ground.

There's nothing.

Oh, there's one thing that's a middle ground.

I won't get into that, but there's one thing that the left and right can decide on.

Other than that, it doesn't matter.

They just they hate each other so much and I don't know if it's just this game and this is the world that we're in now.

They're all sitting there laughing at us while we're fighting in the streets over kids being able to chemically castrate themselves and so-and-so wants to date so-and-so and become this, and it's we're.

We're killing each other in the streets, right, because we're so divided, and it's like how do we stop this?

How do we just come together as a country, be like man.

This is the great, this is the greatest country in the world.

We have everything provided to us.

I can go to the grocery store where my apples are put perfect in these little pyramid shapes, and I got produce dripping with fresh water misted on them like we're fucking fighting in the streets.

We have everything provided.

you got internet, you got water good, we got a good you can walk in my house and flip a switch on and I can turn on every light in my house by my phone.

Yeah, we're fighting in the streets.

We're killing each other in the streets over politics.

This is where charlie was such a heavy hitter that he was such an asset for the world.

They took him because of his beliefs and I have such a hard time processing that and it just it's not even just a hater and anger, it's just like God man, we're here.

It's more of a more of like a scared feeling that we're at this point now where somebody that has that much power and they hate them that much not but what he was saying, not how he was saying it, not what he was pushing, because people were listening and he had an impact and that's why they killed him.

I'm it wasn't always against trans because people were listening.

Yeah, I do think there needs to be a shift in our rhetoric when it comes to mainstream media, when it comes to, or even like, how we handle things politically.

Um, because when we start demonizing each other, that's how we're going to see each other as demons and like again, like I'm not a believer that the battle is flesh and bone, like it's spiritual.

Look at our schools, look at everything, yeah, and spiritual and so if we can stop demonizing it again, view each other as image bearers of Christ, I think that could be again.

You don't even have to believe in Jesus to just love someone else.

If we start there and like I think how, how we do it is, we start there and like I think how, how we do it is we start in our communities, which is why I'm so happy that I'm in the position that I'm in as a public information officer.

Buchanan County is like I get to have the ability to talk with just normal people in a community and show them hey, I'm here for you.

What, what do you need, you know?

But I think it starts at a small level and can work up.

I'm with you on it but the problem there is is people have their agendas and we're so politically driven on everything now, everything from our our curriculum in our schools to an everyday job, people are being hired and fired for their political beliefs now.

So it's like even are you correct?

Yeah, a hundred percent.

We need to start in our communities.

We need to start in our small towns and bringing people together.

I remember as a kid we had parades, community barbecues.

Oh man, the fourth of july was like the greatest time.

Everybody can't dude.

There's neighbors that have lived in this neighborhood and I don't even know them.

I got next door neighbors that won't even say, they won't even wave at you back they're not from boise man I can tell you that we all know where they're from but that's the frustrating part.

It's like, hey, we're here, like we're neighbors.

Man, I got, I got a backyard full of so much fruit or so many vegetables we can't even keep up on it.

I want to share them all.

Yeah, I grow this garden and we can't even keep up on it.

I want to share them all.

Yeah, I grow this garden and we can't even keep up on I want to give them.

There's growing over my neighbor's fences where I see my tomato plants getting yanked down, I'm like, take all you want.

I want to be able to give to the community, but you knock on a door now and they won't even answer.

Yeah.

We're so disconnected, they've driven us to our own little bubbles, and it's so unfortunate because it's the last place we need to be.

We need to be in the streets.

I want our kids out playing.

I want, yeah, but looking out for each other, it's like dude.

I want to see yards full of bikes yeah, that's, that's where we need to get back to, but everybody's just so very scrolling man, everybody's just buried in scrolling and it's yeah sad, and others that like the saying like go touch grass, it's like man, and others that like the saying like go touch grass, it's like man, go out and love people, like, just do that.

Like.

Because I think the more that we're attached to our phones too and you, that's a great point we become socially disconnected from one another.

Yes, literally.

Like we don't view each other as humans, we view each other as a profile picture, like, that's it.

Like you don't have a profile name, yeah, that's it, you know.

And so if we again it just takes it's hard to do that because, like you said, everybody wants to live in their bubble, because it's comfortable when you go out in the public.

And again this goes back to what charlie was doing.

He wanted to make those type of things a norm, like go out, talk to people, go out to talk people.

You don't agree with like.

But because here's, on the flip side of things, like on the on my way back to the salt lake city airport, my uber awesome human being we didn't agree on much.

Honestly, I could tell like just some of the stuff that we were saying.

But as we were talking and I asked him questions and I did tell him like where I was and kind of he's like oh my gosh type of a thing, cause he even said like I did not like a lot of the stuff he talked about but he did not deserve to lose life.

But as we were talking I was like, dude, I agree with that.

Oh, you play that game, me too, like just, and by the end of the cause we were in, I was in the car for about almost an hour cause all the traffic to talk.

And at the end of that conversation.

He was like dude, like I really appreciate you.

I was like I really appreciate you, like we were able to find that we have a lot more in common than we do as far as disagreeing.

And I think that's probably the majority of us in the United States.

It's, but our media puts these topics that are so divided, right?

Oh, kids can transform into whatever they want.

There's a hard line, right?

I'm just using this for an example.

So now when we have this conversation, it's like I can't agree with you and you're gonna be like, oh, you don't think kids should be, so that everything is so divided.

I, I'm, I'm one of those.

Our media is, yeah, is our worst enemy in this country.

Mainstream media and, unfortunately, social media, by who it's run by, is the devil, yeah, like, and people laugh, oh, yeah, okay, the hate, instead of reporting the wins in what's going on in your community and hey, such and such sports teams just done it.

I remember we would race home after football games.

We'd all go to my buddy's parents' house and they always cooked for us and we turn on the news and they would here's the highlights from the games and that was like all the everybody's watching yeah, now high school games, too high school yeah, that's where.

Go back, watch the high.

Like you were hoping for that little two second shot of catching a ball or tackle or whatever.

Yeah, now it's just.

You turn everything on and it's just trump trump trump left, right, left right, and it's just it wears on you and it just chips and chips and chips.

And so when they're the ones feeding this information without guys like charlie, it's like where do we turn to next?

That's the big question.

Who's going to fill the shoes?

I don't think you can fill his shoes.

I don't think so.

Um, and that again.

Like, that's where my fear is, because this is going to have a ripple effect.

But, it again, it matters.

What you do in your anger it matters.

So, like you know, obviously people were talking about Ben Shapiro and even Milo, who's made a little statement on X and he might be coming out of retirement and he has very conservative values.

But like the thing is not like again, this always goes back to Charlie's core belief was yes, he'll talk about politics, he'll talk to you about policy, he'll talk to you about hot button issues, but he did it with such grace grace, grace.

And that is what we need.

And I, I don't know, I don't know Like, but the thing is like, uh, I think Charlie even talked about this too, where he said if you get rid of one person, 10 more will show up.

If you get rid of 10, a thousand will show up.

If you get a thousand, if you get rid of that thousand, a hundred thousand, like.

It will just keep building.

And I think that's probably one of also the coolest things that I've witnessed is no one is burning anything, no one is rioting, no one one's looting, we're praying, you know like we're coming together, and I think that's really, really cool, um, and I, I believe, because I feel it for myself, like this was a life changing event for me, you know, like for this country, um, absolutely, but like being able to hear him in person, because my, my parents, I'm like, why do you think God put you there?

Why do you think God put you right there?

And I was like, honestly, I don't know, but it is.

I really do believe the Holy spirit is moving in a way in me that I've never felt before and viewing people in ways that I've never seen before, and who knows what that'll turn into.

But I'm not alone in feeling this way.

No, you're not, and so I'm praying and hoping that this will be a wake up call, maybe a spiritual awakening for a lot of Christians to come to the Lord A lot of non-Christians, A lot of non-Christians yeah, the wife I think it was last Saturday night before she has a woman that we know and she reached out and she's like talk to.

Why am I feeling what I'm feeling right now?

Yeah, what, what is this?

And my wife spent all night talking to her and do my wife's in tears just going back and forth.

She's not a Christian, doesn't go to church, just an everyday American that lives her life and just left alone.

And now she has this feeling.

Yeah, and this is where people need to pray.

Prayer to me.

Shouldn't be a last resort.

Should be the first thing we do.

Man, it's the hardest thing we do.

Yeah, for me, yeah.

For me.

We're laying in bed last night and I'm laying there and I got all this.

Just just it's building, right, it's building.

I'm like I have to pray.

I have and I bawled my eyes out in this prayer and it's.

My wife says it's the best.

She's like you, just leave a voicemail for god.

That's how I pray, because there's so many people.

Nobody teaches you how to pray.

Yeah right, at least I've never been taught.

My dad's a pastor.

I'm a pastor's kid.

I've listened to him talk and I always listen my dad talking like I just don't know what to say, just just ramble on 20 minute prayer.

I'm always like how, how does he know?

And I.

But then I have other people reach out and they're like what do you pray about?

I'm like I don't know what I pray about.

It's more of a conversation when I tell people and I have buddies that are reaching out too I fell away from my faith for a long time, long time.

Raised a pastor's kid, joined the military, traveled the world, saw the pure evil out there.

I was like, nah, god doesn't exist.

God doesn't exist, there's no way right I have seen.

I have looked evil in its eyes.

God does.

I have looked evil in its eyes.

God does not exist.

He wouldn't allow this to happen.

I wouldn't have walked in these, I wouldn't have seen the shit that I've seen if god exists.

And it took my wife years of chipping, chip and chip and bring me back, and so now it's like, okay, I'm back in it, but the hardest thing for me has been praying.

Yeah, but it's the most incredible thing yeah, like the, can I ask you a question?

yeah.

How's your relationship with your father?

Oh, that's a great question.

It's been incredible my whole life until recently.

My parents lost my brother four years ago.

Five years ago, lots changed for them.

My dad claims I was 17,.

I switched.

Something turned on as soon as girls.

Once I fixated on that, everything changed.

But I feel that's the majority of teenage boys.

That's a phase we all go through.

But then, instead of me staying around and getting through that phase with my parents and then building that relationship, I went straight to war and then I fell away from them.

We had our differences.

I ended up getting a divorce.

They didn't believe in it, all that, but I've always had it like growing up, wise, great, incredible.

My dad sacrificed everything for us.

Like I have great parents, yeah, but then so yeah, I mean we've, we've always.

We're not super tight.

I'm not.

We're not just that, we don.

We've always.

We're not super tight.

I'm not.

We're not just that we don't talk right Like we're not like a text, everyday family.

I'm not sending a memes and this and that they're hot when I say hardcore Christians, they don't drink, they don't.

Oh my, I've never, I think, I've seen my dad take alcoholic beverage and that was on my sister's wedding gotcha.

No smoking, no drinking, no cussing.

Hardcore, yeah, hardcore.

And for me, I'm one of those people, the more you push, the more I'm going the opposite direction, right, but my, I get where my dad's coming from.

He's, he's terrified.

He sees where the world's at.

He sees his son.

He lost his son.

My brother was in his faith to believed, was a believer until he took his last breath.

I was, I held his feet when my brother took his last breath.

He was a believer.

So I see, I see that right.

Like fuck, I can't believe.

I'm even crying on this show.

I can watch my brother dying of cancer for years, believed, and here I am like nah, god doesn't exist.

Like I've seen evil, I've looked it in the eyes, yeah.

I go see my brother and he's like nah, god doesn't exist.

Like I've seen evil, I've looked it in the eyes, yeah.

Then I go see my brother and he's like you got to pray, yeah.

So it's tough, man.

Yeah.

It's tough, like that's why watching my family, watching my parents be able to keep things together, lose a son, their baby, and then just to watch him rot away to nothing, I couldn't even imagine yeah what?

What that does you know?

the uh.

The reason why I ask is because how I pray, um, I view him as my father, as someone that I can run to any time I want, and I heard this not too long ago.

Man, the Christian life is the prodigal son story, told over and over and over again, where you think you've done too much, you've, you're too jaded, you've pissed away all your money, all your inheritance, um made your family name look bad and all you want is just to be like man.

I'll be lucky to even like serve at my parents' house and you walk up to the house and he's waiting for you.

Just like man, come here.

Like I love you, like you are my son and no one's gonna take that away from you, you are mine, and so, with that mindset and that truth, I just for me, it's like all right, I can fail seven times, but he's gonna pick me up so many more times.

Yep and uh.

Thank you so much for sharing that.

By the way, I know that's not easy, but your first one, congrats, I've fought it.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it's interesting, man, prayer is a.

It's a powerful thing, like last night, dude, I pray for my kids, I pray for my daughter's future husbands Pray for everything, yeah.

And then when I'm done, like I sit up and it's just like whoa, like this weight just gone, yeah, and I don't know how to explain it and that's why I tell people Scripture, bro.

That is scripture.

He says come to me all who are weary, I give you strength.

You know like his yoke is light.

You know like he will take that from you.

Man, like it's just, that's why I love scripture, because it is alive.

And, yes, I, I'm like I'm a I hate reading, honestly.

Like there's some books I absolutely love.

But, man, like my boss actually was, like, because I my bible, the one I been reading for years, it's a study bible and it's thick and it's just like I get so distracted by the footnotes sometimes.

And my boss like, dude, just get a, get a normal Bible without the footnotes and just read it and let the Holy spirit do its thing.

And I started doing that and it was a game changer.

Man, like I've read something like a hundred times but when I, without the footnotes and just like all right Holy spirit, like, lead me through this, there's stuff that I've read a hundred times that just hit me in a way that I've never even read it before.

And so, like, like, just reading, I just got done reading Genesis about a month ago and, oh, man, just like you see God's heart immediately where his heart call us to three hours I literally thought about this, like last week.

But God's heart is for reconciliation, redemption and restoration and you see that throughout the Bible, beginning all the way till revelations.

Like you see, obviously the perfect example is Jesus on the cross bringing us back to the father.

But like, anyway, I don't even know where I was going with that.

I lost train of thought, but it was prayer.

But anyway, I don't even know where I was going with that.

I lost the train of thought, but it was prayer.

But anyway, you're right, man, it's, it's insane, and it's when you really start just just the dialogue, right, just the conversation with God, just asking questions.

That's it when you're in your car, ask questions, yeah, asking questions.

That's it when you're in your car, ask questions, yeah, and I think too, at least for me, when I really am spending time with God, like he starts basically giving me his heart.

So the way that I view people, or used to view people, when I'm spending time with the Lord, he's like no, this is how you're supposed to view them, this is how you're supposed to treat them, and it just changes everything.

I am so full of hate and I just god man, I was, I was an, at still am better hateful asshole.

For a long time I carried a lot, I've carried a lot, but every time and talk and pray and just conversate, just talking with my wife and just having the conversation, it's just, it's a little bit just, it's it just chips and chips and chips.

I know she's probably an awesome wife by the way she is.

I know she's probably prayed for since the day she was saved to just soften my heart and that it's and it's happening.

Because I look at my mindset, I'm far from perfect.

I know I am far from perfect, but I see the work, I see the change.

I'm like okay, and this is how I look at it.

I'm like okay, if I believe in this man that sent his son down to be sacrificed for us, for us all to believe and to follow and to lead us all into heaven, and I just have to believe, truly believe in my heart, that this dude did all this, this God provided all this for us and I get to live this eternal life with him.

What's the worst that's going to happen?

No, I mean Charlie Kirk said it best.

He said all death does to a believer is reunite him with Christ.

I think that's one of the things I said was like damn dude, he gets a walk with christ.

Now, as soon as they're like he's dead, I'm like that he's with christ.

A lucky son of a gun.

Yeah, where people are, I mean obviously we're mourning and people are crying and they're upset.

Well, I'm like how lucky yeah, that means we just got more work to do.

Man, how lucky charlie did his part done right.

Yeah, you know, there is a light in all this and there is.

How many people are these, these, these churches are talking about?

How many people are walking up and the, the, the revival, and the fire.

That's I hope.

I hope there's a fire that sweeps this country in this world and just starts turning people toward.

Maybe this is it.

Maybe, who knows?

Yeah, I don't know, man, I don't know, I don't know where we go from here.

I don't know what the point of charlie's murder was and I don't know god's plan and I don't think we ever will.

And it could be these little fires, it could be.

It could be one of my buddies that listens to this, or a listener yeah I was literally on the phone.

As you're pulling up with a buddy, he's like I can't believe you're talking to me right now.

I'm like bro, like what are you?

He's like dude you're going to have.

You're talking to dude.

That was there.

And I'm like he's just a guy man Like I'm, I'm dude.

I'm just, he's just a guy.

He's just a guy.

That's how I am.

I'm like, well, thank, and I've known that he's a kid, I've known this he's, he's a, he's has a family and he started.

You know, I've watched him grow as this young college kid into this young, incredible young father and husband, and you know the fact that he calls and I don't even know where I was going.

But the if take a guy like him yeah he could listen to this and see my vulnerability and see yours, and just just two men talking about Christ and whatever may lead Dude, go have the conversation.

Absolutely, it'll change.

This is coming from somebody that has fought the world on everything, everything.

Just have the conversation.

Yeah, just pray, that's it, it'll help.

Yeah, because you're loved, you're seen Truly and you are worthy of that love.

I can't believe it took you.

I don't even know you.

We've never even had a conversation before.

I don't know one thing about you except for, you know, a couple of dudes that I've had on the podcast and here you are Also.

I had a.

So Laura Bolton was my teacher at Centennial.

I literally had dinner with her, with my ex last year, with her and her husband.

She is crazy then, as she is now she can I?

Okay, I'm going to tell you a story.

I love her but she.

I was a junior in high school when I had her for math.

This is this really happened.

So again, immature high school students, students right in math class right after lunch.

I can't believe, okay.

So my friend austin, the room had like a funny smell to it and one of the I think one guy was like, or I think it was a girl who said like it smells funny in here.

And Austin was like well, you probably should close your legs.

And then Laura heard that and she was Austin.

Why don't you shut your legs?

Because you know, no girl's ever going to come between them.

And the whole class was just like what?

Just what did she just say I'm in the back laughing Cause I was like you deserve that.

That was laughing so hard because I was like you deserve that.

That was great.

Yeah, boomeros is like, come on.

That was yeah.

But laura, again, awesome human being sees people for who they are, you know.

And that got her in trouble.

Yep, um, she's fascinating man, she's an amazing human being oh, her dates and the time stamps and insane information that she holds.

She having the conversation I'm like I don't even know what country I was in half the time when I was like, I don't even know what country I was in half the time when I was deployed.

I couldn't even tell you where we were.

And she's like oh, in 2012, so and so did this at this time she'll say it's her asian genes, her asian genes.

Man remember everything, but they're she's amazing woman.

Amazing woman, man who would have thought some random ass dude sending me a message you want to talk about charlie kirk getting shot would have thought Some random ass dude sending me a message want to talk about Charlie Kirk getting shot would have led to this.

Alright, love, what are your questions?

You got.

So the first question is for Andrew and it's a Charlie.

It's a Charlie question.

Okay.

And it's what did the trauma?

How did you handle seeing that trauma in real life?

I mean, looking back at it now, it it seemed like a blur.

Like even now it's like did that really happen?

Um, monday, it was like sunday and monday were hard days for me.

Sunday I was pretty angry, like not at anyone in particular, I was just angry just in general.

They killed a man, yeah.

And then monday, I there was a couple panic attacks I had, and I haven't had like a panic attack in a while, like in a long time.

Um, I got through it, but it was one of those my body saying hey, talk to somebody.

So I did um, but honestly and I'm not kidding when I say this, like the reason why I can have these conversations is because I do believe God is sustaining me.

And like, hey, man, like you can do this, you can have these conversations.

And so, as far as the trauma, I think that's going to be something I might have with you know my entire life, but it's not been, it hasn't affected me as much as I thought it would.

Like I'm using it because I I know God's going to use it for good.

So I'm just kind of like I don't know, I'm buying into it, like I'm not running from it, I'm not trying to cope unhealthy.

I'm not, um, doing any sort of substances at all.

I've just like, I'm, I'm sitting with it, yeah, doing any sort of substances at all.

I've just like I'm, I'm sitting with it, um, like again, like this last year, a lot of just awful, crazy stuff has happened in my life and I think maybe that was God preparing my heart for like, you're ready, um, but yeah, I think it's just.

I know God is there because he's had, he has been there for me in my entire life.

Like I can look back, and this last year even and I can see his fingerprints everywhere, and so I think God is just sustaining me and he's building me up and, um, I'm able to just be strong, not saying like I I haven't, you know, cried or you know been in tears, um, cause I have, but it's just not running away from it.

It's um I actually heard this the other day too Um, when you know, when we have storms in our lives, our knee jerk reaction is to run Like we don't want to deal with that because it's comfortable, it's scary, it's hard.

Um, when Buffalo's see a storm, they actually run towards it, because you get through it the quickest if you run towards a storm.

So I'm just like all right, I'm just going to sit in it.

I'm just like all right, I'm just going to sit in it, I'm going to process it, I'm not going to run from it.

Um, and I even have a lot of people praying for me too, a lot of people.

So I think that's kind of how I've been handling, uh, in dealing with the trauma.

What else you got my love?

Next question is for you.

For me.

Yep, oh God, here we go.

They want to know why you struggle with your belief and how you get through it, why I struggle with my belief and how I get through it.

I feel the the reason I struggle with my belief with christ is because of my I'm not fully educated and I have questions, yeah, which leads to doubt.

Do I question that God died on the cross?

No, 100% did.

Do I question that he walked this earth and the stories are true and the scriptures that were written about him are true and that it's the most documented sold book in the world and we're hated, most hated man ever, most talked about man.

A hundred percent believe in all of it.

I don't know enough to sit and be able to I'll, I'll, I'll fight somebody over it.

I'm not much of a believer, but I don't know the details.

I am so happy that you doubt and that's probably kind of a weird thing to say, but like doubt is a sign and evidence of faith.

Because if you're just like happy to go lucky, like nothing really challenged it, like I don't know if that's real faith, you like wrestling with God is good, he's big enough to handle it, he, he like again, like to me, like as a father figure, like that's my go-to, yeah and um, so if I have doubts, if I have concerns, like you have children, like how many times are they've been like you know, disobedient and questioning, like, but like at the end of the day, you're their father, they trust you and so doubting is normal.

And I think maybe in the Christian culture we've made doubting look bad in a way, but like it's good, it's, you're wrestling with God and it forces you honestly to dive in deeper.

So be curious like, get to know the Holy Spirit, like recognize his voice, which it sounds like you do.

Oh, for sure.

So it's like, but I'm sure, with all the things that you've seen in your life and the things that you've experienced, the crazy thing is you know what evil looks like for sure, and if the evil is real, that means there's gotta be a good right A hundred percent.

So there's no.

That's where, when people talk, I'm like do you believe it?

Yeah, but I don't believe in heaven.

How do we have a heaven without a hell?

How do you have good without evil?

I mean, nothing can be created out of nothing, or something can't be created out of nothing.

It just can't happen, you know.

But no, I, I, I'm happy that you wrestle with your faith, I'm happy that you struggle with it, because that means it's real, it's a lie, that means the Holy spirit is working in you, man.

Like that's a good thing, embrace it.

I can't believe we're having this conversation like that.

It's gone to the.

I love it.

I was praying for it, man, really.

Oh dude.

So yeah, this is.

This is wild chaos, Like I it good, we sit and we have real honest conversations and this is this is what I love.

What was the second part of?

that question.

This is what I love, man.

This is.

Second part is for those struggling and feeling the call.

That's what they call it the call.

What is your advice?

they want to hear from you and they want to hear it from your guests and if you're struggling, my advice it goes back to prayer open a bible, which I am guilty of not doing.

I'm not going to sit here and say, read, because I that's my biggest battle.

I'm like I need a kid's bible that has pictures I can draw crayons in.

Have those, yeah, that's what I need.

It's like you know, because I start reading and I'm like what in the fuck are these dudes saying?

Like it doesn't make sense.

I just I have such a hard time processing it.

So that's where we actually just have this conversation.

I'm like I need barney style where I could put it on an audiobook, where it's reading to me and I can follow along, where I can ask questions, like that's that's how I learned.

So for me to just open up, but then again, at the same time, I've never sat down and I'll admit this, I have never sat.

And I had a buddy of mine, victor he's actually fucking retired gangbanger, did 10 years in prison.

He was crazy dude.

He was on the show.

Incredible dude is he?

uh like full tatted.

Yeah um, is it the same?

I'm thinking of there's probably not too many giant Mexican victors that okay.

Who is no different guy?

Sorry, I was thinking of another guy that's pretty big on social media, but he says he, when he sits down and this is what I haven't done yet, and I'm guilty of this, as I I don't sit and he says he prays first.

God, give me strength, give me wisdom, educate me, and he'll just open the Bible.

Absolutely, I don't.

I haven't, I'm guilty of not doing that yet, so I can't be like, oh, this is how it helps me, you know.

So I would love to hear your side of for people that are questioning their faith or questioning just.

You're feeling.

Everybody, I feel, is feeling a call right now in this nation.

You're feeling something and you saw what this man died for believing in.

If you're that true of a believer that he died for it, there's something behind it and you can't deny this.

So, for people listening that have this call and this urge, I mean, how do you, how do we pull people and how do you, how do we drive people in the right direction, towards their faith?

I would say recognize that call and ask yourself what is it that I'm passionate about, what is it that I just cannot stop thinking about?

Then I would ask yourself okay, how can I use this?

Um, I'll go the secular route.

You could say how can I use this to benefit the community?

How can I benefit this to bless other people?

Right, but God puts things on your heart, not just to bless people, but to glorify him, and so I love what you said.

Prayer is huge.

Prayer is absolutely like you're.

We have the ability to talk to the creator of the universe.

That's amazing to me.

But from that, because here's the other side of things, where people like I don't um, sorry, my phone went off Um, um.

The other side of things, where it's where people are like I don't hear God, like I pray and pray but I don't hear anything.

Well, scripture says that the word is active and alive.

Read your Bible, like.

Read your Bible because there are stories in there that just blow you away.

But also you get to see God's heart from the very beginning all the way to the very end.

It's all about reconciliation, us to him.

And like it's crazy, because he came to us, we didn't have to do anything, like he came to us and so he's desiring a relationship with each and every single one of us.

And again, sometimes it might take something so tragic, like Charlie Kirk's death.

Sometimes it's a whisper, it's a gentle knock on your heart, but answer it, answer it.

Don't just ponder like, answer it, ponder like, answer it.

Um, because, like in your relationship, if it's just one sided, it's not a relationship.

You have to.

You have to do your part too, right?

So, be curious, answer the call, answer that knock on the door.

But, yeah, get into your word, like pray with people also, and I will say this too, because this is huge Get into community, like go to a church, get into a Bible study, get in a men's group, get in a woman's group, like surround yourself with like-minded Christians, because when world, when the world gets hard and your life goes South, you have people that will be there for you, that will encourage you, that will uplift you.

And also, because I'm so bad at this, I'm very hard on myself.

The enemy will tell me lies and if I'm not in my word and if I'm not around people to encourage me, I will believe those lies.

And then I just get depressed and I doubt, and having like-minded believers are there to not just keep you accountable but to remind you of God's word.

That's what like why we have community.

We're not meant to do this world alone, you know at all.

We need each other 100%.

So again, that goes back to like the bigger scope of things about how do we heal as a nation.

But yeah, I would say sorry this is a very long winded answer, but yeah, like those things, pray, read your Bible, get in the community of like-minded Christians and answer the call.

I think my biggest thing on like a new Christian baby Christian the worst.

the worst thing is these angelic, angelic what is the word I'm looking for?

I can't see the word right now either Evangelical.

Angelic what is the word I'm looking for?

I can't say the word right now either Evangelical.

The ones that are screaming from the rooftops, yeah, yeah, and I feel that they do.

I look at them and I'm like it's a turnoff.

But that's the extreme and so when you see these people in the corners, you're burning in hell if you don't repent and all this kind of stuff.

I don't want people thinking that's like those are Christians.

They are.

They claim that I'm not, not.

I'm not throwing shade.

But that's not my type of people I want.

This is.

This is and I feel most people, especially men and women, listening like just have a conversation.

It starts with a conversation.

Can I, can I quickly share a story about my pastor and his wife?

What church do you go to?

By the way, it's called true hope, collister, um, and he's gotten flack for this, which is crazy to me, but, uh, so, matt, that's his name and his wife's name is Andrea and, like my favorite human beings ever, they're amazing, but they live next to a same sex couple for years.

Okay.

And they would always have dinner with each other and and have like little cookouts and stuff.

And uh, matt's wife, andrea, told me the story.

Um, and one day, like they were in the kitchen at this couple's house and the one of them goes so what does matt do again, is he like in it or something like that?

And she like looks at him and goes no, he's a pastor.

And just like the awkwardness, the, the like there's like this awkward silence.

And Andrew was like, can we still be friends?

Like we love you guys?

And his response was well, we know how you view like same sex relationships she goes that doesn't mean I don't love you.

Same sex relationships she goes, that doesn't mean I don't love you.

And because they were able to build a really good relationship because they were intentional.

Um, they loved them where they're at the.

That couple gave permission to have them speak life into them when things get hard, and so I would say, like it starts with again being willing to sit in someone's shit and to be there for them and to love them where they're at, to be intentional and, like, do life with them.

I think that's that's huge.

That's where I have a problem with Christians.

I don't know trying to throw my parents under the bus.

They don't listen to my podcast, the legalism.

There's a lot of legality with not even it's, but us as christians, and I'm supposed to be on this path right and I'm supposed to be.

I'm supposed to be bringing as many people, and I think charlie says it the most.

His job is to bring as many people with him.

Yeah, as a pastor, how am I supposed to look at this pastor if he's going to shun a same-sex marriage couple living next to him?

I'm not saying they need to be besties and they support that.

Yeah, but you never know what impact him and his wife have.

Just a general conversation.

So we might not come to agreeance on on certain topics, but that doesn't mean I can't share my faith and it doesn't mean that they might not see where I've come from and what I've been through and be like damn dude.

It changed this dude around.

We plant the seed.

God's going to do the rest.

man it's not condoning same sex.

It's loving the sinners.

Yeah that's what jesus did exactly he's washed absolutely he's washing the feet right.

I mean washing the feet.

This is, this is this is where, also with christianity and this is where some of my doubt comes into is where christians are the most judgmental.

Just oh for everything.

That's not all in a line with them.

As far as the radical side and this is where I have a hard time trying to associate with other christians where I'm at in my faith right now is because I don't.

I don't have a problem with certain people, like my parents.

There's no way if my parents, if I, brought a gay friend to their home, oh my god, I would never hear the end yeah but then I look at them and I'm like, okay, well you're.

You're screaming from the rooftops that I need to be saved and I need to do this and this and this and this.

But what if this gay friend of mine, just using an example I brought, then he sees who I am, he sees my family, he sees the life that my children, my, my family, everybody we have here because of how we worship Christ.

Maybe he starts thinking this Maybe he's in the porn.

We're all sinners, right, absolutely.

Just because you're being gay isn't any different than any other sin.

That's just the sin.

There's not like, obviously I'll put pedophiles on a higher sin level, but sin's sin right, and at the end of the day, sin is sin.

It is what it is.

But how am I going to sit here and not associate with somebody, because of their beliefs and is not the same as mine as a Christian, that I can't associate with them?

So I respect your pastor for doing that and I get the grief that he's getting, because my parents would be those people.

We're not going to go to church here because they're sinning, the pastor's sinning by having this relationship and that's where I look and I'm like I can't, I can't jump on board with your beliefs, because this it as this young baby Christian and I'm falling back into this and I'm learning all this stuff over again.

I'm told that I need to talk and have this conversation, which is a huge thing.

Charlie preached Absolutely and like the cool thing is too, cause you'll have people on the flip side.

Go well, jesus told people to stop sitting.

All the time.

It's like you're not wrong, but let's bring up the, the woman at the well example.

What did he do before he told her to stop sitting?

He made sure he she knew that, he intimately knew her, and he said hey, like you're right, you don't have a husband, you've got four.

And the fact she's like, wait, what?

Like you know me that intimately and the conversation that he had with her was very intimate.

But like jesus, again, we're not jesus, we, we don't know everybody.

We don't know, again, we don't know what people are going through, which is why we need to be intentional with people, be curious, so that way they give us access to their life, so we can speak truth to them, so that way we can give them hey, like I've got a true hope that I get to have every single day because he's alive and he saved me and, um, it's a hope that is eternal.

It's not just a momentary hope, it's not a momentary fix, it's an everlasting, eternal love and hope that I have because of jesus, which is like, and when you have that connection with people, they'll listen because they're going to want what you have yeah, a hundred percent.

A hundred percent.

What else?

You got my love.

Any more questions from the listeners, did you?

ever meet charlie this is a funny story.

Um, I he talked to me for like three seconds and because, like I said when he showed up, he's on a time crunch, like everything is go, go, go, and so this was totally, I think, because I was kind of fangirling just a little bit.

Um, so he takes a photo with the president of the chapter and I'm just sitting there like okay, one, two, three click, and he's like, yeah, we got to go fast.

I was like all right, that's good.

That was literally there are only like really big interaction, because after that was him taking photos with the group and then him taking the time to take photos with each of them, like on their phones and selfies and all that kind of stuff, and then it was straight to throwing hats, you know.

So like that was my only interaction with him, but even like just again being around him, talking to people too that have known him for years and like listening to their stories about him and the friendship that they had he was as genuine as they come and like I said, I love hearing that, yeah, it was an honor to do photos and, honestly, so that was um.

I haven't shared any photos yet I haven't posted on social media because they're, technically, they're turning point USAs and I want them to do with them as they, as they will.

You know, I want them to use them for whatever reason they they want Um, use them for whatever reason they they want, um.

But I was terrified of what they thought of the photos.

Uh, because, at the end of the day, photos, like photography, is art, right, not everybody likes the same art, but I was like god please, like I want this to be good, like I want them to be proud of these photos, I want them to like it.

And I got a message back from them saying, like these are phenomenal.

And so, oh man, I was, I was stressing so much about that, but yeah, but yeah, that was my only really interaction with Charlie.

I was like, oh, you're right, okay, he's a machine.

Yeah, like gotta keep, good, gotta go faster.

I was like all right, turning and burning.

Yeah.

That's all I have.

Do you have anything left on your phone?

I don't.

Um.

A lot of repeats, a lot of people have the same questions red flags and that type of stuff, the second shots, and there's just so many conspiracies.

Well, I guess we could wrap this up, dude I okay.

So here's my last thing for you, since the whole world felt this shot and are feeling this pole, and they, they, our country and the world is in this weird position.

What would be your advice and where would you?

Where would you lead people to go moving forward?

I'd say, um, at the very least, treat human beings like human beings.

Um, again, I'm not coming from a religious standpoint.

I've obviously shared how I feel about that.

But we're, each, human being, we're living this life.

Life is hard.

It can be awful at times and you never know what someone is going through.

So just be kind, go out of your way to do something nice, love people, Give someone a compliment, um, but seriously, like at the end of the day, like our money isn't going to follow us in our, in our, in our gravestone, like we're not going to, like we're in this huge boat together, right, like, so let's work together.

Let's put our side our differences, recognize we have differences and that's okay.

But like, love one another.

Like the best thing I could say is give everyone a Christ like love, which means, in my opinion, there has to be a balance of grace and there has to be a balance of truth, because that's what Jesus did.

You can't, if you give someone just too much grace or you grace, I think eventually that means you'll be lying to them and if you're just truthful all the time, you're going to hurt people.

So, having that balance of hey, I see you, I love you while still providing truth is huge.

But there is a finesse and a way to do that, I believe.

But, at the end of the day, just treat human beings like they have intrinsic worth and value, because we all do Um, and I think that could be just a little start of how we can get back together.

Um, because I do believe America is the greatest nation on this planet.

Um, I, but also at the worldwide level, like everybody is a human being and everybody is worthy of love.

They're, they're seen there, there's.

I mean, I think that's what everybody's craves.

I think everybody at human level wants to be loved.

They're grasping for anything to fill that hole to feel love to feel whole, to feel connected, and that's what I love about Jesus is he gives us all of that.

And more.

Yeah exactly More than you can ever ever imagine.

So that's what I would say I love it.

Dude, I've never asked before.

You want to finish with a prayer?

Yeah, let's do it.

Yeah, all right.

Dear Heavenly Father, I just want to say thank you so much for this opportunity for Bam and I to come together to uh discuss um the tragedy with Charlie Kirk, but also just be able to have great conversations that glorify you.

Lord, I pray that this conversation is fruitful.

I pray that it helps people to ask questions and be curious, um and I.

I pray that it does help lead people to you.

Um, I pray that you know this is a nation that obviously is very divided, but I pray that we can come together, um and realize that we have a lot more in common than we do differences.

Um, god, you are amazing.

Thank you for dying for us.

Uh, thank you for loving us unconditionally and being a constant and faithful God, even when we're not.

You're amazing and we just love you and pray this in your holy, holy, holy name.

Amen.

Amen, man.

Yeah, thank you for having me, man.

Thanks for the DM.

Yeah, man, who would have thought Some random ass dude shoot me a DM.

Oops, just rotate it.

There you go.

That was incredible.