[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the podcast.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hey guys, this week's episode is fire.

[SPEAKER_02]: We have never talked about Christian dating perspectives other than last week's episode where Isaac shared about the six questions he asked guys who come to date one of our daughters.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we get into it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And at the very end, we even talk about kissing perspectives on that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we talked about the five myths, but also really good tips for parents on like how to think about your children dating and what to equip them with versus being this heavy control parent.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's be this loving relational parent that actually teaches them what the Bible says and guides them.

[SPEAKER_01]: So where they adopt really biblically sound perspectives and how to approach this that works.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there's fruit in the path.

[SPEAKER_02]: So if you have ever felt like us, where you're looking at the different perspectives on dating out there, you look at the what the world's doing, you go, ah, not for my kids, and you look at what maybe some of the more extreme conservatives are doing with courtship and you go, ah, it's too high control, and you just want the middle road.

[SPEAKER_02]: You want to know what God's word says about it, and you want encouragement in that, today's episode is for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we're so glad you're here and people have been asking for this for a long time.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, almost seven years doing the podcast and we're just now talking about dating.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why is that?

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's because frankly, even though we have nine kids and our third is about to get married now, we've always tried to hold off on having any strong opinions or teaching on anything that we haven't lived through enough to have enough experience before teaching on it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I'll be honest, even though we've been very blessed that our first two are married and we love the people that they chose to marry.

[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_02]: There you still kind of like don't feel like a pro.

[SPEAKER_02]: I guess is the best way to say it, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And it was funny because yesterday we were actually at an a little event and one of our good friends, she's actually going to be one of our in laws pretty soon here.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she said, well, but I think [SPEAKER_02]: the needs been in the crock pot long enough you guys.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think you have enough experience to teach on this and so it was a super good encouragement and you guys have been asking for a long time for us to teach our perspective on dating but I'll be honest I don't like that word.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't either.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you have a better word, put it in the comments on YouTube.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're looking for a word because there's there's two different ditches on either side of the road, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: So you have the secular dating, but it's not called secular dating.

[SPEAKER_02]: They just call it dating.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's [SPEAKER_02]: courtship on the more conservative side, and now some people can do courting, and it can be done in a well, biblical, good way.

[SPEAKER_02]: But a lot of times, those kinds of experiences is where you're hearing from people, where there was high control, and that it didn't go very well, or maybe it was even close to an arranged marriage, or those kinds of things.

[SPEAKER_02]: That would be like the extreme extreme end of the spectrum, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And there's a whole bunch in between.

[SPEAKER_02]: So where do Isaac and Angie land?

[SPEAKER_01]: We're trying to build a biblical road and thinking about what actually works.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you know what works is when your children have their own biblically-based convictions and how they want to approach this that aligns with the Bible.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what you want, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're in a high control mindset, then you might not be equipped being.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a forcing versus equipping.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a big difference.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you've really got to have this thought through when your children are younger, too, because it's never too late, of course.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you got to have this thought through because there's a lot of things you do in the raising of them that instills in them, those convictions that they adopt fully.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then go, that's just my mom's conviction.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's just my dad's conviction.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, this is my conviction.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's vital because of X, Y, and Z.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting because, you know, here we are talking about the importance of teaching your kids and equipping them with their own, with the wise, really, behind why what you believe you believe, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what courageous parenting is all about.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's what the courageous parenting, podcast, the whole ministry, be courageous, ministry is founded on that, like equipping your children to be able to stand firm and biblical truth.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so you have to teach biblical truth to your kids under for them to discern, make wise decisions to be able to stand firm in it.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you don't teach it to them, they're not going to stand firm in it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So today we're going to go over in a world filled with noise and confusion, just shielding our kids isn't enough.

[SPEAKER_02]: We have to fill their hearts and minds with truth and conviction.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Some myths [SPEAKER_02]: five specific myths, a few of them land over in one ditch, a few of them land over in the other ditch, and we're gonna talk about why their myths maybe you have struggled with believing some of these, or maybe you have personally even thought them that yourself based upon your own personal experience.

[SPEAKER_02]: Here's one word of advice, okay?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's that when you're parenting, you need to try your best to suspend your own personal experience and to look at things through a biblical worldview, [SPEAKER_02]: And to not throw the baby out with the bath water because of what you feel or what you experience, because what you experience might have been done wrong, sinfully, or even like too much control or that would be sinful, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And so when it comes to making decisions and your ideas about what you have regarding how you're going to go about the whole dating [SPEAKER_02]: season of life and parenting, you and your husband, you and your spouse, you guys gotta talk it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it's healthy to talk about what you experienced, what you felt was done wrong, what you felt was done right, regrets that maybe you had, what you wish you would have known.

[SPEAKER_02]: All of those things are incredibly important, but at the end of the day, even your experiences, if they don't, if they are leading you towards making a decision that goes against what the word of God says, you need to submit to what the word of God says.

[SPEAKER_01]: Amen, because a lot of times what happens is the pendulum's shifting, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: If you grew up in a really high control courtship kind of mentality, environment that was, you know, a bunch of rules, there's more work space, and there wasn't high relationship home, then you might swing to, I'm just gonna let my kids do what they want to do, which is when you're swinging past the biblical road into the other ditch.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then the secular dating ditch is, you know, maybe you grew up with that and now you're swinging past the biblical road into the high control at a fear, a fear-based parenting, which wants to do anything in fear actually.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so what we're saying is there's a biblical road of equipping our children to have their own conviction walking from the Lord.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you're going to tell them, hey, the most important decision you ever make is accept the Lord Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior.

[SPEAKER_01]: Second most important decision you ever going to make is who you're married.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that should be instilled from a young age.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, where are their convictions at?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's important.

[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, I just got to say the last week's episode, make sure you listen to it, which is six questions.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to ask him if you want to date your daughter.

[SPEAKER_01]: Even if you don't have daughters and you have sons, you've got to listen to this.

[SPEAKER_01]: But one thing, the answer you said, I might not have hit on hard enough is the question asking him, what is your standard for purity and listening to where he's at and where his convictions are at?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because that's going to mean a lot when he approaches your daughter.

[SPEAKER_01]: But anyways, that's the last week's episode.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's dive in.

[SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, potentially next week, [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to have Megan, our twenty-one year old daughter who's engaged to Sean, they're getting married next month on the show to talk about their own experience.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we'll have to see earlier the very next week or the week after we send out a people's statement.

[SPEAKER_01]: Stay tuned for that.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we're kind of doing this series if you haven't noticed on Christian perspectives on dating and how to how to navigate that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But they've done a such a beautiful job.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so proud of them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just incredible to see what God is doing in their relationship and their discipline and patience and all the things.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go quickly.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go through the five minutes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, five minutes.

[SPEAKER_02]: So like I said before, these are myths that land and they usually come out of having been in one of the two ditches on either side of the road in regards to your opinions regarding dating.

[SPEAKER_02]: The first one is.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to buck the dating culture of peers that's being impressed upon your kids.

[SPEAKER_02]: So like any of the influences that you experience, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like if there's peer pressure to let your kids date go to prom, blah, blah, blah, all the different things.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was just an Albert sense where there's a Starbucks and I'm not a Starbucks fan, but that I needed a place to sit while my son was doing driver's ed.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I went in there and I got a coffee and I'm working and this whole crew, school must have got out, this whole crew of [SPEAKER_01]: You know, middle schoolers and maybe some teenagers came in and they were just all next to me and talking about dating.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was terrible.

[SPEAKER_02]: I did not know he had this.

[SPEAKER_02]: I would have loved to be a fly in the wall.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it would have helped with today's podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was so terrible the content of their discussions and what they were talking about that they even got kicked out of the store.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so, yeah, they all got kicked out.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just, I'm focused.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was just exercising the muscle of focus and discipline to get things done.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't even look up.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I just kept working.

[SPEAKER_02]: But anyway, how are you not distracted?

[SPEAKER_02]: I would have been like, you guys, I would have been distracted.

[SPEAKER_01]: I did participate.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, but here's the deal.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, so let's, you, that is a math.

[SPEAKER_01]: that you don't have control or influence and that peer pressure is so strong that you feel like you have to let them do.

[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, you put them in the peer pressure environment.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's a good point.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: And secondly, you're the parent.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if you don't have a strong enough relationship to steer them with biblical truth, they're just not enough discipleship happening home.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a myth.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's move on.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's a relationship thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: I do want to say I mentioned prom as one of the things that people get pressured into doing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Going to prom is not necessarily the bad thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: What is the bad aspect of it is all of the extra things that go along with it depending on what group they're going with, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And so when you hear me say certain things, it's like I'm obviously thinking of like the extreme experiences, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: But the next myth was teaching purity is abusive.

[SPEAKER_00]: Whoa.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, that's intense.

[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously that myth has come out of people who were raised in a, you know, they're like very much a part of the purity culture cancellation movement and they're saying, oh, yeah, teaching purity is abusive and kids are going to have bad body image and all of this stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, here's the deal.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have something to say about that.

[SPEAKER_02]: All people struggle with their identity at different points in their childhood and growing up.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's called figuring out who you are and figuring out who you are in Christ.

[SPEAKER_02]: And as parents, we need to be aware that our kids are potentially going to struggle with this and Lord will lean.

[SPEAKER_02]: Our kids will be open with us.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can't [SPEAKER_02]: make them be open with you, but you can pursue a relationship with them where maybe hopefully they will be open with you and you can guide them and lead them towards having a strong identity and not struggling as much with body image, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Hopefully, but sometimes that is a part of the journey that they are going through.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is not necessarily always, you can't always blame shift and blame the parents for that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I see people doing this all the time.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I have to say, when it comes to purity, what does God's word say about purity?

[SPEAKER_02]: We have an entire session on this in the Parenting Mentor Program.

[SPEAKER_02]: Why?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because purity is not just about physical or sexual purity.

[SPEAKER_02]: The word actually says, love the Lord your God with your whole heart, your whole mind, your whole soul, and your whole strength.

[SPEAKER_02]: That actually gives us an insight into the four parts of how God made a human that he wants us to be fully [SPEAKER_02]: Loving him with all of who we are, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: That would be being pure with all of who we are.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so like in that session specifically, we go into what does it look like to be pure of mind?

[SPEAKER_02]: What does it look like to be pure of heart?

[SPEAKER_02]: What does it look like to be pure?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like we go through all of the different areas because it's not just one thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you're just focusing as parents on the physical or the sexual purity, you've missed the boat.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you're putting so much focus on something that is potentially putting a pressure on your kids that they don't even fully understand.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I have to say, God's word teaches to abstain from sexual impurity.

[SPEAKER_02]: It says to not be sexually immoral.

[SPEAKER_02]: There are many, many scriptures.

[SPEAKER_01]: So hang on.

[SPEAKER_01]: So for against, if the myth and someone believes that teaching purity is abusive, then that means that they want their children to be impure.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it would be impure and go against God's desires and what's in the Bible?

[SPEAKER_02]: That is exactly what I'm saying.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we, so that's a myth.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we need to teach what's in the Bible, actually, and do it unapologetically, but do it in a way that is loving where our kids also understand that like, and this is impurity of any kind of way, mind, so a heart, strength, strength being your body, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: If your kids, your, we're sinners.

[SPEAKER_02]: and things happen to us because of other people's sins sometimes also, okay?

[SPEAKER_02]: And so when you're teaching your kids about purity to teach them that nobody's perfect and that when you screw up, guess what?

[SPEAKER_02]: Jesus, he forgives you, you, but you have a responsibility to repent.

[SPEAKER_02]: to repent of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: If it's your sin, you repent of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: If someone else is sin, you come to God and you ask him to help you to forgive them.

[SPEAKER_02]: You ask for them to repent.

[SPEAKER_02]: You go through the, depending on what it was, if it was like an abuse, my goodness, then we pray for justice and for their restoration, which isn't gonna happen unless there's accountability and, oh, David, get me started.

[SPEAKER_02]: But the whole point is like teaching purity alone, like that concept, teaching your kids' purity.

[SPEAKER_02]: That is not abusive.

[SPEAKER_02]: It protects them from being abused.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I think the world is literally messed up calling good evil and evil good today.

[SPEAKER_01]: But there's another myth that there's that you can't keep the high standards that there aren't other people upholding the same standards that they're for.

[SPEAKER_01]: And your children might start feeling this way.

[SPEAKER_01]: Therefore, they need to lower their standards if they're ever hoping to get married.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that is a huge myth.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's actually want to call that life from the pit of hell.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's a lie from the devil because if they think that they need to screw up more so that they can be relevant or be in in-group or be accepted and that having high standards, nobody else does, so why should I?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a life from the enemy.

[SPEAKER_02]: So number four, purity isn't possible without chaperones.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, okay, here's the deal.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, yes, obviously we're very aware of the temptation force in when you're falling in love and you're walking hand in hand and how much you just, yeah, you love each other and there's all that passion and all yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: But here's the deal.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you can't trust them, if you can't trust your children because of where they're at on a spiritual level, like you don't know their spiritual walk with the Lord or maybe you doubt it because they don't have their press with it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Or they don't have their own strong convictions of where their line is.

[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like at some point you have to start letting them be the adults that they are and [SPEAKER_02]: letting them have their convictions and stick to their convictions.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it starts out, I think that one of the reasons why this is such an important conversation is the parents need to start practicing that with their kids with things that are not as big a deal as sexual purity or whatever when they're in that.

[SPEAKER_02]: biblical dating relationship, like with the little things.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like having integrity, having a conviction and standing for truth and being able to uphold that conviction and keeping themselves pure and whatever that temptation was, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like if we are constantly controlling everything, then our kids don't ever have backbone and they never have to stand up against it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And they never, you see I'm saying, [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think that there's a lot that parents can do to build their children up to be those kinds of people who have integrity that they're gonna be able to stick to their convictions and they're gonna have self-control.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that, yeah, I think that not trusting the kids and providing always having to have a chap around it seems a little controlling me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Dating many will help them learn who they should marry.

[SPEAKER_02]: What do you think, Baba?

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's terrible.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, it's not like, yeah, it's just, this is a big deal.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if we're gonna, you know, sometimes they may date a couple of people or, you know, but it's not because it was a plan.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, it shouldn't be the plan to like, Bob around and get to know what you like.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can get to know the kinds of character qualities that you're gonna be looking for in a future spouse and be able to identify if that person has it or not by even just being friends with them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so let's go in.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to give you a couple very important points here.

[SPEAKER_01]: First thing is you got to define dating within your marriage.

[SPEAKER_01]: You got it.

[SPEAKER_01]: What is that definition?

[SPEAKER_02]: What is that mean for your kids?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what is acceptable?

[SPEAKER_01]: What is it?

[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to give you ours in some bullet points here, but you have to have your own conviction.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can't one of you to listen and can't just adopt this and go, this is what it's going to be.

[SPEAKER_01]: You guys got a wrestle through it.

[SPEAKER_01]: A married couple that doesn't wrestle through this doesn't really have an aligned conviction.

[SPEAKER_01]: And what will really help you is the parenting program, by the way, to get to all this stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: But that's a good thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Getting into alignment, getting into alignment.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the first thing is, for us, [SPEAKER_01]: And our kids hold this conviction deeply themselves, which is dating is only for the purpose of marriage.

[SPEAKER_01]: And when we explain that, they don't know for sure they're going to marry the person they're dating, but they are high potential.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they already have a lot of knowledge and relational connectedness as friends before even that first date.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that comes, that's our next point, which is friends first.

[SPEAKER_01]: Friends first, you should be friends before going on a date.

[SPEAKER_01]: Don't make something more serious than it needs to be before you know enough information.

[SPEAKER_02]: I would say that being friends first eliminates a lot of the potential heartache in the future and awkwardness of friendship in the future.

[SPEAKER_02]: Imagine if you had a kid or if you knew someone [SPEAKER_02]: who was just dating every person right when they met them and then burning through those relationships.

[SPEAKER_02]: What kind of reputation would they have?

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's really a player.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's what we've called players forever, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And the same is true for like the think about adult relationships family relationships family to family like obviously if there's family relationship in friendship and then two kids date and then there's a breakup.

[SPEAKER_02]: sometimes it affects the family relationships, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And so being friends first is really important because it also helps you to kind of like know if something isn't know before even getting to the dating relationship and then you actually preserve a whole lot of relationships in the process, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think that being friends is a must, you can know if somebody is a potential by becoming friends with them.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just gonna say it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's so important.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: So the next thing is to look for fruit, which obviously if someone comes from a like minded family, that does make things a little bit easier because you're able to see the fruit that's in their family.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they have other siblings that are also married that are also living in a lifestyle choices that are like minded to your kids personal convictions as well on your family, legacy convictions.

[SPEAKER_02]: However, [SPEAKER_02]: Just because someone is raised in a family who might have a lot of fruit doesn't mean that they actually have the same personal convictions.

[SPEAKER_02]: One thing that we have seen is that sometimes there's like kids that are raised in seemingly like-minded families but then they grow up and they don't want to have kids because they helped raise their siblings or maybe they don't want to homeschool because they helped homeschool their siblings and they're just done with it or maybe it was done wrong.

[SPEAKER_02]: But when I say wrong, I mean, like in a way that made them resent their upbringing to where they don't want to do that themselves, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And so if that's a situation, then wouldn't it be helpful for your son or your daughter to know that about the person that they're dating versus just assuming that they're going to want to homeschool when they have kids?

[SPEAKER_01]: You gotta look for the fruit and it takes time to look for the fruit and so and it's good to have other siblings in and you able to spend enough time with the person to see the fruit too.

[SPEAKER_01]: So how does this happen?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they should, you know, if he's interested or she's interested in dating.

[SPEAKER_01]: your son or daughter, then they should be trained to go, well, why don't you come over for dinner?

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not a date, why don't you hang out?

[SPEAKER_01]: Why don't you come play volleyball with the rest of my siblings or why don't we go to this thing with a bunch of other people?

[SPEAKER_01]: And don't call it a date, just start spending time together.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's no romance at all.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's literally getting to know each other being friends first so that you have time to look for the fruit before you start this dating thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, it's easy for someone to pretend for a little while, but they can't pretend for a long time.

[SPEAKER_02]: And this is something that we've also known as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so if you just meet somebody, you don't know their reputation.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's dangerous.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so one thing we've taught our kids is that know them for a while.

[SPEAKER_02]: Know their friends.

[SPEAKER_02]: See how they interact with their family with the people that are closest to them.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's going to tell you a lot about them.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's hard for them to be fake around people who've known them forever.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's actually really healthy to be around families, to be around friends, to see friend groups.

[SPEAKER_02]: And to ask them like, do you like this friend group?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like if you see some toxicity, some maybe unhealthy stuff going on in a friendship, we would challenge our kids to go, well, hey, have you asked them?

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they don't like that friend group.

[SPEAKER_01]: And just remember, you know, a high high percentage, I think it's eighty eight or ninety percent of [SPEAKER_01]: young men or addiction to pornography females I think it's fifty percent forty fifty percent something like that are looking at pornography and so one thing that will happen is people that are just after sexual relationships they will have the patience for all this [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a beauty blocking and tackling thing happening here.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a byproduct is there I have the patience just to hang out.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're after something else and so it really starts to you start to see the fruit on if somebody's really impatient about these things.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Hey there, we just wanted to invite you to join us in the next parenting mentor program where we talk more about the heart of parenting in session two.

[SPEAKER_02]: So take a listen to them.

[SPEAKER_02]: Next little clip.

[SPEAKER_02]: and we hope you join this.

[SPEAKER_03]: Stephen, I realize that we were getting too comfortable with the world's vision of how to raise our children.

[SPEAKER_03]: But Angie and Isaac have done and creating this is literally phenomenal.

[SPEAKER_02]: This program provided awesome scripture-based teachings and just some really great practical applications.

[SPEAKER_03]: This class has just really rocked my world.

[SPEAKER_03]: It is given me the vision for not just the different things that we might focus on as parents or trying to raise our kids vaguely like how our kids are behaving or what we're doing with discipline.

[SPEAKER_03]: But also the things of the heart.

[SPEAKER_03]: We now have a game plan to how we want to raise our children.

[SPEAKER_03]: We have so many answers to the questions that have been in our mind.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's not just these hypothetical situations or it's not just this.

[SPEAKER_03]: Here's what I think you should do.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's let me show you where and scripture this is.

[SPEAKER_03]: do your legacy a favor and yourself a favor and just do it.

[SPEAKER_03]: One of the best things that we've done this year, one of the best investments we've made this year, and I could not recommend it more.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're no longer fearing dark days ahead, but we're so excited to raise lights.

[SPEAKER_02]: That should be leaders for the next generation.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it kind of reminds me of just we briefly touched on this in last week's podcast episode that was also on like when he comes to want to date your daughter and you is about the conversation that you have with the young guy that's you know asking to date your daughter for the purpose marriage.

[SPEAKER_02]: And there was a spot in there where we talked about how important it is that your kids build relationships with their own personal with their siblings.

[SPEAKER_02]: to where they care about what their siblings think about that person, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And so if they're able to spend time together and this has happened with all the kids at different points where they've asked other siblings, what do you think about that person?

[SPEAKER_02]: And they asked that because they know their brothers and sisters have their back, they're always going to be in their life and they care the most about them.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's like they're not going to lie to you first of all, they're going to tell you the truth because your family.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And we care about one another.

[SPEAKER_02]: So of course, knowing that like you said at the very beginning of this podcast, knowing that the person that you marry is the second most important decision you're ever going to make in your life.

[SPEAKER_02]: If there's two important decisions, it's the second most important decision.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so who else would you ask besides your parents who love you unconditionally and your siblings?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, really nobody's gonna have your back in that same kind of way, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, if you have some close friends as well, maybe you don't have very many siblings.

[SPEAKER_02]: You have close friends who are also hanging out with this person.

[SPEAKER_02]: A wise person would go to them and say, hey, are there any red flags that you see when we're hanging out with them?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: For the girl to ask that of her friends, for the guy to ask that of his other guy friends who are also like minded to go, Hey, what do you think of her?

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think there's any red flags?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like to hear that to be willing to hear that.

[SPEAKER_02]: That is sober mindedness.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you're listening right now and you're like, this sounds impossible because of our community that ran doesn't lend to this being possible or these kinds of things.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I would say, well, what church are you in?

[SPEAKER_01]: Are you in a church where there's like mindedness or are the young people just kind of pretending to be Christians or they are, but they're wayward.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a lot of nominalness and there's a lot of talk about dating in the wrong way within the youth groups and these kinds of things.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I would say, you know what?

[SPEAKER_01]: You are in control of the communities that you're putting your children into and what you're spending time with.

[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe you have to contemplate raising the standards of [SPEAKER_01]: what you think is possible for your community.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you need to start being the light where you are in causing change there or maybe you need to find something else.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that it's important to think about like where are you putting your children because they are going to be morphed and there's going to be increasing pressure.

[SPEAKER_01]: So many parents make it so hard on themselves by the environments they put their kids in and then all this pressure comes back at them.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then what they're why they feel the relational pressure and they give into the kids and really [SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, even though parents will never emit this, a lot of Christian homes are actually ran by the teenagers.

[SPEAKER_01]: The teenagers' preferences, the teenagers' this and there's a lot of guilt put back on the parents because of the environments they put their kids in that then causes pressure against them to cause decisions to go a certain direction and really at the end of the day, what is that?

[SPEAKER_01]: That's parents leading the family.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry, that's kids leading the family.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, child, child, centric homes, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: But you know, on defining the dating, I think that it's important that you raise your kids to be on the lookout for people who are like minded, not being willing to settle for less like one of the myths that we talked about on specific things.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so one of the things that we've done, we mentioned it just briefly, it was like a drop moment of just saying, hey, non-agosibles, let's be taught all our kids to write it on negotiables list.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just want to talk about that for a second because every kid is going to be a little bit different on like what their preferences are, but there are going to be some like-minded things within family culture, biblical family culture that are going to be non-agosciples, and one of those is that they are not an equally out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Are they Christians?

[SPEAKER_02]: That is going to be a hands down like not even going to bother dating them if they're not a believer.

[SPEAKER_02]: Does that mean that you don't witness to them?

[SPEAKER_02]: No, you can witness to them, but [SPEAKER_02]: That's it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Literally, that's it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Second Corinthians, six, fourteen says, do not be unequally yoked with an unbeliever for what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness or what fellowship has light with darkness.

[SPEAKER_02]: This isn't incredibly important warning.

[SPEAKER_02]: Why did God put this in the word?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because he loves us.

[SPEAKER_02]: God loves our kids too.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we need to teach them what the Bible says from the perspective of God loves you.

[SPEAKER_02]: And when you do things God's way and you're willing to follow His instructions and obey Him and heed His warnings, your life will be a lot easier.

[SPEAKER_02]: And this is a choice.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like one of the things we've taught our sons and daughters is that they have a choice in who they marry.

[SPEAKER_02]: Both man and woman have a choice.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, the guy is the one who should propose not the girl.

[SPEAKER_02]: but the girl can still say no.

[SPEAKER_02]: She does not have to say yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: So they both have a choice and when they make a choice.

[SPEAKER_02]: and they say they're vows and they have a covenant before God, they stick with that choice.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so understanding, truly getting the grasp of how important this decision is and that there are guidelines that are inscriptions, let's make wise choices.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if you have daughters and she understands the Bible, she understands she's gonna be submitting to her husband.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so she needs to, if she really embraces that, it will elevate what she's looking for.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if the dad is exemplifying modeling this well, then she's going to want this.

[SPEAKER_01]: If the dad is not modeling this well in the home, it's going to be a challenge for her to want that.

[SPEAKER_01]: What's biblical?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's good leadership, servant leadership, but proactive taking initiative, spiritual leadership.

[SPEAKER_01]: These are things she needs to see.

[SPEAKER_01]: These are things the boys need to see.

[SPEAKER_01]: So they know how to do it and emulate that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: We don't need to be perfect.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not that's for sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: But what's important is that we need to try to do what the Bible says to model it for them and to teach our kids.

[SPEAKER_02]: So on the first state, let's go into talking about the first state because obviously, let's say that the guy has already come to the debt and they've had that question that we did the whole podcast episode on last week, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Then what's next?

[SPEAKER_02]: He goes to the girl and asks her out on their first date.

[SPEAKER_01]: And let's say she says yes, and they go on their first date.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you know what?

[SPEAKER_01]: It should be fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: They should have a great time, whether it's the good meal, whether it's the card, whether it's the unique [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the flower.

[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever shows the thought on us, the care for it says a lot.

[SPEAKER_01]: But this should also be entering into deeper conversation and communication immediately.

[SPEAKER_01]: It shouldn't just be goofing around having fun only.

[SPEAKER_01]: It should be getting into some of these things and wherever they need to really understand and know each other.

[SPEAKER_01]: It should be the pursuit of deeper knowing of each other to make sure it's important to even keep [SPEAKER_02]: I don't like the word interview or interrogate.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that it's appropriate because that kind of sounds like it's a relational question.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it's just getting to know one another.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a good conversation, having purposeful conversation about what you dream for the future and getting to know them.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like wouldn't it be helpful if your son had a person or your daughter had a personal conviction that they want to be at home with their babies?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like the woman wants to be at home with the babies?

[SPEAKER_02]: Wouldn't that be great to know?

[SPEAKER_02]: that conviction versus if one of the other in that situation, things that they should be working full time.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's a good conversation as like, what do you think when you think about your future, what do you dream about?

[SPEAKER_02]: And going into all these different conversations, what are his aspirations for work?

[SPEAKER_02]: Is he seen himself as the provider?

[SPEAKER_02]: Is he willing to take on that [SPEAKER_02]: There is an element of pressure that's there is you willing to take on that responsibility is really what the word is that I'm looking for That's a good conversation for the daughter to be asking like are you ready to provide are you in a place this because if they're not and they're like well I thought you would be working and we would just have we would both be working and and then she goes well, but I want to have babies is like you do I didn't want kids [SPEAKER_02]: important conversation, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because you might be finding out right away.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you're not the one for me.

[SPEAKER_02]: So what would be the point in even going on a second date and having heartstrings tied even deeper?

[SPEAKER_02]: No.

[SPEAKER_02]: So while you're in the midst of having fun, having purposeful conversations to find out what that person actually desires is really important.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then having giving insights to people after the date is important too.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now people probably want to know Angie, you know, what have we been around, you know, as we're raising our children, you know, and we've been part of most of the time evangelical non-denominational churches.

[SPEAKER_00]: In our marriage.

[SPEAKER_01]: In our marriage.

[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of times larger churches and so forth.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then we had a experience of doing home church, which is amazing.

[SPEAKER_01]: We planted a couple of home churches before the the slanting ridden Bible church here in the middle of town.

[SPEAKER_01]: And but along the journey, we've been around, you know, the normal kind of what Christians normally think about dating, which is very similar to the rest of the world.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we've seen that.

[SPEAKER_01]: We've seen that.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're like, that was where kids were young.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're like, well, we're not going to do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: The first like, fifteen years that we were married, we're going to do something different.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to do something different.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to, like, think a little more clearly about this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Look at the Bible and think about, okay, we're going to go against the grain on some of that stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: But then, you know, we also had friends, we've had friends that were ultra conservative and we've had friends that were medium conservative and and we've known them.

[SPEAKER_02]: We've we've heard different people like body, bottom has taught on.

[SPEAKER_02]: He had a whole teaching on return of the daughters and different things like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: We've seen what has been taught on that side.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, since you bring a body because he's very good in a lot of ways, but back then he was teaching something that I don't know if we didn't teach that or not.

[SPEAKER_02]: go to college or go to school and they should always remain under their father's headship and they should work for their father's business until they're married and then they go and they work for their headship.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know about what these days, but he has a lot of good wisdom.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we do like his book Family Driven Faith.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was a really good book.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyways, I don't know why I got on his soap box.

[SPEAKER_02]: You guys love our soap boxes.

[SPEAKER_02]: But my point is, as we are very aware, we've done research on the different dishes on either side of the road so that we could be even able to speak to a biblical perspective on this.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that that's been one of the issues is finding people who are willing to talk about dating from a Christian perspective without going into one of the two dishes.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's very rare to find those people who have that experience.

[SPEAKER_01]: And when you don't have a strong constitution about this and know where you land, you're not going to push back when there's people you love telling you one thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: That might be in a ditch.

[SPEAKER_01]: And when I would say about us, as we've been around varying different influences like that, and we have pushed back, even on people that are close to us, saying, hey, no, that's not how we're going to do things.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they've respected that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's been good, and it hasn't hurt relationships, but you're not going to do that if you're not strong in what you think is right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, there's been, obviously, when you're a part of a church and your kids make friends in, you know, at church and they see people dating at different ages and then they come and they talk to you about that, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: You have to teach your kids the conviction.

[SPEAKER_02]: You have to teach them what you see.

[SPEAKER_02]: You have to teach them.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've even used some of my own personal experiences from one I was younger and the things that I experienced.

[SPEAKER_02]: Isaac has probably also done the same thing with some of the kids and sharing from his past.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the lessons that we learned, like our kids know, because we were very honest with them about the hurt that can come when you awaken love early, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Or when you're not being led, and how we've desired to give them more direction, I will say, it is hard with the first, first, one-two kids, if you don't have mentors that have done it well.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think you and I never saw people who had done it well.

[SPEAKER_02]: We've seen a lot of people screw up.

[SPEAKER_01]: We've seen some do things well.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, I mean, like as far as up close and personal watching the dating and getting advice, there was nobody that really gave us good advice.

[SPEAKER_02]: There are people who try to give advice and I was like, uh, nope, that's not going to work.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know if I like the fruit, so we're not going to do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: There has been people who have tried to say things, and even to our kids at times where we've been, had to go back and say, you know what?

[SPEAKER_02]: Honey, we don't agree with them on that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so that's the point.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like on that myth of, is it hard to buck the pressures that your kids are going to experience?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's hard in the sense that it's going to require you to step up and have hard conversations.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like you're going to have to be willing to confront some people, or even talk to your kids about how the, well, we don't do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: How they do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's something you do.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the myth is it's too hard to bug the dating and all that stuff and the answer is you better.

[SPEAKER_01]: You have to buck against the wrong pressures and cultural influences and peer pressures.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hard is not impossible.

[SPEAKER_02]: It just you have to anticipate that you're going to have to do a little bit extra work.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that that's shouldn't be as parents being anticipating that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, look at the days that we're living in.

[SPEAKER_02]: It is going to be harder to raise it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the question is, as you're raising your kids, what's their vision for all of this and where is it airing to even have the conversations and are they even thinking about it early enough and cultivating their own convictions before the threats and the pressures and the wrong thinking.

[SPEAKER_01]: from one ditch to the other ditch, come at them, you have to have been feeding them, feed them, feed them.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you haven't been feeding them, you already have teenagers, we'll start now, get together with them, and what do you think about this?

[SPEAKER_01]: And here's what I'm learning, and here's what the Bible says, and I'd love to, hey, let's do a Bible study about [SPEAKER_02]: dating, you know, or perspectives about all the aspects of dating because it's like the Bible doesn't that the word dating is not actually in the Bible so that's why we're opening it up to anyone who has a good extra word for it because we don't really subscribe to the courtship we don't really subscribe to dating but there is this like in between that we've been trying to teach our kids which is [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you want to have relationships with them that are purposeful.

[SPEAKER_02]: And here's, you know, I wish we could have added a sixth myth because something just popped in my head.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that sometimes people are afraid that if they don't let their kids date many people, which was our last one, dating many people have some learn who they want to marry.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that some people believe that their kids are going to be socially awkward around the opposite gender if they don't have experience dating them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's so untrue.

[SPEAKER_02]: But that's a myth that's out there.

[SPEAKER_01]: All of our kids are so confident around the opposite.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and a scientist are like, we've met lots of kids who were not into this.

[SPEAKER_02]: The dating thing and they are confident talking to boys or girls like we've seen hundreds of people who were good at it that way.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's more about spending time with other families.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not about dating to get comfortable with it.

[SPEAKER_01]: No.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, and I think, but I think that people feel that pressure to let their kids date so that they're comfortable so that they are able to get married later.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like they legitimately believe this myth that their kids are not going to be able to find a spouse if they don't have that kind of experience.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I just think that that's life from the enemy.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that you can have lots of friends and that your kids can develop good social skills being able to talk to the opposite gender, all the time comfortably.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then when it comes time for them to find a spouse, it's actually easier for them to have those conversations.

[SPEAKER_01]: What about kissing?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh and purity stuff like that, huh?

[SPEAKER_01]: What about kissing?

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I have a thought on that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: it's that you want to raise your kids to have their own vision for when that's appropriate and I think that it's okay if it's slightly different amongst some of the kids like they could have a conviction of you know once we're engaged or I can make sure that there could be a conviction of on the wedding day [SPEAKER_01]: you know there can be but definitely it shouldn't be like part of the dating to just a normal dating thing is that you kiss each other it is a very special thing I think that what we would probably agree on is that okay they [SPEAKER_01]: Are they the one?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like is it serious and are they not just giving it frivolously to lots of people?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's I you know your hope is that that is that is only for the person you're gonna marry Can it happen before the wedding day?

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's up to at that point your phone children need to make their conviction on that [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what we've landed.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's hard because you're hearing essay children, but they're like not children yet, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: They're not children anymore.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're like, they're young adults, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And so, it's like, they're our children, but they're adults.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're always going to be our kids.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, your baby's always going to be your baby.

[SPEAKER_02]: But you have to start letting them to make some of these decisions where they're making their own decision.

[SPEAKER_02]: And listen, there shouldn't be any condemnation for that decision when it comes to that sort of thing as long as they are seeing [SPEAKER_02]: pure and following the Lord.

[SPEAKER_01]: One thing I will say is, and I've said this is that once you have that first kiss, you're going to be addicted to it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's really nice.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's got to be for the person you're going to be married.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's my suggestion.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're so cute.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to be really addicted to it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And once you get addicted to kissing, you're really going to have a desire to just do one little extra thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: whatever that is and you know it's really you're making it harder and harder to stay pure before you get married and so I would just encourage you that you know to be careful of that and so these are the kinds of conversations like giving them the real deal and then educating them but if you're like if you're from the beginning you're like you shouldn't kiss someone until you're wedding day [SPEAKER_01]: Well, how successful has that been for all of you?

[SPEAKER_01]: You mean, I think it's more of like, that is a beautiful thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: If that's what you decide to do, that is a wonderful thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I love that.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's interesting because there's this sweet little book that I used to read with the girls called Princess Kiss.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's actually a whole story about she saves her kiss to the end.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's this precious thing that's in this lantern that she gives to her husband on their wedding day.

[SPEAKER_02]: And there's like a little, you can even buy a little heart that has like a little special thing in it and they say the little girls will save their kiss, you know, when they have a box, our girls have the little box.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was really sweet.

[SPEAKER_02]: But what was the more important lesson was not, it wasn't so focused on the kiss.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was actually all of the suitors that came to the princess wanting to marry her and she had little names for them.

[SPEAKER_02]: like prince treasure chest and prince jealousy and prince you know it was all these and it was like literally warning the reader the little girl that's been read this book it's warning them of the character flaws that art can be dangerous out there and how they won't be fully cherished by that husband that prince that's coming if he's focused on worldly things or how they won't be cherished by that person if he's [SPEAKER_02]: full of himself and he's arrogant and he thinks he's so gorgeous.

[SPEAKER_02]: And like every single prince that came, there was a lesson that came with it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so, you know, I've shared that book many times with lots of moms.

[SPEAKER_02]: We actually have it as a resource in one of the resource lists in the Parenting Mental Program because it's a really sweet way to teach your girls about the importance of looking at the character and the man.

[SPEAKER_02]: and understanding that they're all coming and they all want the same thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: They all want the kiss.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you only have, yes, we've kissed more than once, obviously.

[SPEAKER_02]: But you only have your first kiss once, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And so, like, desiring to treasure that, desiring to give that as a special gift to the person who you're gonna be yoke to for the rest of your life is not a bad thing to desire.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that you see the cancellation culture [SPEAKER_02]: tries to pity really honorable pursuits and then it makes, it almost shames them for these things.

[SPEAKER_02]: When in reality it's like, what is that?

[SPEAKER_02]: What is that attack on something that is pure?

[SPEAKER_02]: That is from the enemy.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not from God.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not, but at the same time, it shouldn't be forcing these things.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you have an equipped relationally, and if your children are not strong with the Lord, but you're enforcing something, that's just never going to work.

[SPEAKER_01]: That is going to be a backfire.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and if you just put so much weight, what I was going to say is if you on the opposite side, if you put so much weight on this one thing, right, even though you want what's best for your kids, you don't want their heart trampled into pieces and many men having parts of their heart and then feeling fragile and broken, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because that's what a large portion of society is today.

[SPEAKER_02]: You want what's best for them.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you want them to be treasured and you want them to weight, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And so the like the intentions behind the parent sharing that story, for example, or sharing that pursuit is is honorable.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you don't want your sense to be heartbreakers either ain't going around and dating or kissing and without the right intentions and things like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: But what I was gonna say is if you put pressure, there's like a difference between like, there's this precious thing that God has given you, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, do you view this precious?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's like a beautiful thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: But when there's a pressure and there's a, you didn't.

[SPEAKER_02]: And there's this like coming down on the teenager, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And like there's this, [SPEAKER_01]: expectation and standard and pressure and there's no grace and it's legalistic and and that is a very that they've crossed a line over into something that is not godly and that's a line when that's crossed it also can have ramifications of the future marriage where the you know the the wife may there may be struggles in intimacy because they were taught in this legalistic rigid high control environment that [SPEAKER_01]: sex is bad and then they carry that into their marriage and it really versus sex is a gift from God for marriage.

[SPEAKER_01]: So let's just be on a biblical road.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's not operate in fear.

[SPEAKER_01]: There is no fear because we have the Lord.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there's also no fear when you're doing the things that you should be doing to actually equip your children and for to help them see what the wonderful, best, most fruitful path for their life is so that they then adopt their own convictions, their own alignment with the Bible.

[SPEAKER_01]: because they want to be obedient to the Lord because they're following Jesus.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if they're following Jesus, all of this is so much easier.

[SPEAKER_01]: But are they instead following the world and their dating starts looking like the world?

[SPEAKER_01]: We don't want that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for joining us and I hope that you enjoy this podcast.

[SPEAKER_02]: Remember, you can find last week's episode on six questions that you can ask him if he comes to date your daughter and be looking for the episode where we interview Sean and Megan too.