[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to the courageous parenting podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: You guys, I am so excited for today's special episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: We are talking about the lies that women are struggling with regarding motherhood feeling like they're not enough and the heaviness that can come when you are trying to please other people instead of God.

[SPEAKER_00]: I joined by Abby Halberstat from MS for Mama.

[SPEAKER_00]: She and I together actually between the two of us have nineteen kids.

[SPEAKER_00]: Can you believe that?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we are sharing from all different seasons.

[SPEAKER_00]: Today's episode is just a [SPEAKER_00]: fire hose of encouragement and interesting dialogue as we discuss the different things that we've noticed in this generation the things that women are struggling with specifically the lies of the enemy is trying to tempt people to believe as well as the new legalism in pit parenting philosophies called gentle parenting or conscious parenting you might be thinking what are you talking about Angie that's [SPEAKER_00]: not legalism.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm that seems like the opposite of it, but you got to listen today's episode to be able to figure out what we're talking about.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I invite you to join us today.

[SPEAKER_00]: We are actually talking about all of these interesting topics that are covered in her newest book called You Bet Your Stretch Marks, which is such an awesome book.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have to share with you guys privately that the eighth chapter [SPEAKER_00]: I got to contribute to a little bit because Abby asked quite a few Titus two moms to contribute to this book.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we all have a little letter at the end of each chapter.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so it is just it's refreshing to read as you're trying to find worth and beauty in the marks that motherhood impresses upon your body and your soul.

[SPEAKER_00]: Don't you love that?

[SPEAKER_00]: I love that!

[SPEAKER_00]: And as usual, all show notes have links to where you can find the book, where you can find out more about Abby as well so go to cragespairnting.com, click on podcast, episodes, latest episode, and everything is right there for you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to today's podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: Abby, thank you so much for joining us on the cragespairnting podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: So excited to have you on here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for coming on.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm excited to be here.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Angie.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's just dive in.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you just came out with your newest book.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's the third and a trilogy.

[SPEAKER_00]: You bet your stretch marks.

[SPEAKER_00]: I loved the I'm just didn't dive right in the last picture.

[SPEAKER_00]: Here's our like my favorite.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mentioned this to you earlier that sometimes [SPEAKER_00]: people don't get through a book.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's true.

[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone who's listening to be encouraged to read the last few chapters of the book.

[SPEAKER_01]: There are my favorite chapters too.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not kidding.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I like the whole book.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I put my heart and soul into it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the last four are like the rallying cry for moms.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like they're going to get you fired up.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love them.

[SPEAKER_00]: You talk about [SPEAKER_00]: What to do when you've grown weary of doing good?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I just even personally am a mom of nine.

[SPEAKER_00]: As you know, you're a mom of ten.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have olders.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have youngers.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're in this season where you can feel stretched, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there've been many stretching seasons in motherhood.

[SPEAKER_00]: at our how many kids you have you get stretched.

[SPEAKER_00]: But growing weary, there are times where I literally am like, there's so many fun big things happening in our life.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I've been experiencing the weary in a different kind of way than I did before.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this was so encouraging to me because it doesn't allow us to just stay in the pit of the weary, but it generates us to look at ways that we could potentially [SPEAKER_00]: what we can do, what we can either take away from our life so that we have more time to rest, or what we can add to make things less overwhelming, and then we're accountable, which I absolutely love.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's start our conversation about this.

[SPEAKER_00]: There are a lot of lies that moms are dealing with in today's society, that are dragging them down, that are discouraging, that are attempting them to believe that they don't have value.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you talk a lot about those lies in actually I see a theme in all three of the books that challenges us to look at the biblical approach, keep our eyes fixed on eternity.

[SPEAKER_00]: What are the biggest lies that you've seen moms today struggling with?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think one of the big ones is that what you do doesn't have value unless it's paid.

[SPEAKER_01]: We see this in a cultural mindset of like something being beneath you, like anybody could write a bottom, anybody could walk a baby to sleep, anybody could teach somebody how to do math, like this is really kind of bill or your pay grade.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yet, we know that [SPEAKER_01]: Scripture calls us to invest well in our children, Judah on May six, six through eight, that we are uniquely gifted as parents to raise them in the teaching and ammunition of the Lord, that we are called to train them up and Proverbs is full of all of these exhortations to parents to invest well because God has given us.

[SPEAKER_01]: a love for them, a desire for them to succeed, a desire for them to know him, and nobody else has that to the degree, to the degree that we do.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that's one of them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Another one is that you deserve [SPEAKER_01]: X, Y, or Z.

And if you don't get it, then motherhood is keeping you from your best life.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there are so many things that motherhood, quote, keeps us from.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if we turn it around, there are so many things that it adds to our life that far outweigh any kind of things that we forget.

[SPEAKER_01]: But whether it's sleep, or nicer clothing, or a bigger house, or more time to ourselves, self care, which is a really big push.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I talk about that in a chapter called Self Care versus Soul Care in my first book.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Mr.

Mama.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's this idea of like, you're not getting what you're owed.

[SPEAKER_01]: But from a Christian perspective, whether we're moms or not, we are owed nothing.

[SPEAKER_01]: We deserve nothing.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's all grace and mercy and good gifts from God if we are in relationship with him.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so we have an attitude of entitlement that is crept in.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think in society in general, but definitely a motherhood where it's kind of like, if I just didn't have [SPEAKER_01]: these kids keeping me from my greater purpose.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would actually accomplish something, be something, be noticed, and yet scripture count on culture ways so clearly declares that Christ who being in very nature got to not consider equality with God something to be grasped.

[SPEAKER_01]: which is like this really evocative verb of like grabbing onto something with our fingernails, but instead humble himself to the point of death on a cross.

[SPEAKER_01]: If the most perfect human being that has ever existed and the God of the universe himself is not grasping for what he quote deserves and he deserves all praise, goyan, honor, forever, amen.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then our heart should be convicted that we are called to contentment because he has given us this good work to do and it is adding not taking away from us.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's so true.

[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of us struggle.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're all in this world, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And we hear different things.

[SPEAKER_00]: We see things.

[SPEAKER_00]: We compare our lives to other moms lives.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: We see some of the things that they're doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe we even desire a covet.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I wish I had more time to go out and have coffee or to invest in friendships.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know that there have been, for me, the friendship category has probably been one of the biggest ones that I've had to give to the Lord over the years.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because [SPEAKER_00]: If I take time away from my very large family to invest in a friendship, that's kind of a big deal.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot going on and there's a lot of older kids that I'm [SPEAKER_00]: developing new kinds of friendships with, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's, but when you look at other people and they have their besties and they're hanging out with people and you're doing the hard work and you're saying faithful, it can be hard at times.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Mom, who maybe is struggling with finding friends or even having time for friends.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I actually have a whole chapter on this, and my book card is not the same thing as bad.

[SPEAKER_01]: And talking about how godly friends are fine with meeting you where you are.

[SPEAKER_01]: In other words, they are not going to pull you away from your family.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to bring their family over to your house, and you're going to hang out together and bake bread together.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, or if that being out, it doesn't have any baking bread.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to, you know, your kids are going to play in the yard and interrupt you forty-seven times and you're never going to finish a sentence, but just being in their presence is so filling.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that the truest friend is one that doesn't expect you to drop everything to come meet their needs.

[SPEAKER_01]: But instead, you guys are doing what scripture calls, you know, both string each other, exhorting each other, building one another in love.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can fist-pump each other.

[SPEAKER_00]: Good job.

[SPEAKER_00]: Keep doing your race.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: I won a hundred percent agree.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that that's something that the Lord has taught me in the last eight years, especially, but the first, well, the first fourteen years, I struggled.

[SPEAKER_00]: I felt like I was constantly like I had to be a way to actually have a good conversation.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like the lie that we believe regarding Bible study.

[SPEAKER_00]: that it has hot coffee and the quiet coffee shop.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the study time for an hour point to twenty minutes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not I mean with all your pens and just realizing that in the messiness of life in the rigum roll of life like a year ago and older mentor told me Angie just leave her Bible open on the counter.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's so good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Snack on it throughout the day because if we believe it's the bread of life, it is going to be the thing that we're going to, as much as often as our kids are saying, Mom, I want to snack.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are we going to the word of God to be filled so that we can pour into our kids?

[SPEAKER_00]: But we do need that time, we're able to study and have prayer time and things like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But to snack, especially in certain seasons, you need it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so what are some other lies that you think moms are struggling with?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like there is a really big push to classify all forms of [SPEAKER_01]: guilt or shame or conviction as a societal pressure or construct that are just a mountain of unreasonable expectations that are important, you know, just just mount it on your shoulders and you can never be expected to meet them.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you shouldn't even try because they clearly, you know, they don't have your life.

[SPEAKER_01]: They don't understand you.

[SPEAKER_01]: You do you.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of this idea.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I feel like the truth is somewhere more toward Scripture always, which makes it very clear that the Lord is kind to convict us.

[SPEAKER_01]: He is kind to show us bit by bit to the areas where we are needing growth.

[SPEAKER_01]: Very silly but simple personal example.

[SPEAKER_01]: for a long time, my kids ate cereal for breakfast every single morning because why?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because I have a lot of children, I am very busy, cereal is easy, you can buy it easily, you can pair it easily, you can clean it up after it easily.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they can do it for themselves from a very early age, my beautiful messy, but at least it's not all on you, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And so, [SPEAKER_01]: for years that was our reality and that was honestly a blessing to be for a really long time in some really really crazy seasons but then I started to come out of some of those a little bit and have this like still small voice saying like have you looked at the ingredients on the box you know you know they probably should have some more protein you know little more nutrients [SPEAKER_01]: starting off the day for their brains and their bodies.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I resisted for a long time because I, it was gonna be more work for me and I just kept telling myself it's too much.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I finally was like, this is not society.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is not an outside pressure.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is coming from within me and a growing desire and a knowledge to maybe do something different.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I did.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it really wasn't that hard.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I also bought my kids along with me into the kitchen and taught them how to make things.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think another lie is that every good and perfect gift has to come down from mom.

[SPEAKER_01]: But that's just a really bad paraphrase of a scripture, which is actually every good and perfect dish comes down from the father of lights in whom there is no changing or shifting shadow.

[SPEAKER_01]: We are not the fount of all wisdom, nutrition, everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: However, we do have a unique and incredible opportunity to be the starting point for our kids to learn all kinds of things that serve them well.

[SPEAKER_01]: We don't have cereal for breakfast anymore and we don't do anything crazy.

[SPEAKER_01]: My daughter actually just brought me some eggs that she made because I taught her how to bake eggs.

[SPEAKER_01]: We have a lot of eggs.

[SPEAKER_01]: We have a lot of banana and peanut butter toast.

[SPEAKER_01]: Things like that that has some more nutrition value but still aren't that hard to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't turn into some sort of crazy gourmet family by putting this pressure on ourselves to perform.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was just a response to a conviction and I think it was legitimate.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's good because your kids are actually learning how to do it themselves and that's a thing that they're prepared for when they launch from their home.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a really simple example, but I love it because some people would go, oh, I just don't have the timer just because she's doing it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to because that makes me feel bad.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: When in reality, what it might be is that there is some conviction to maybe look into it or who knows, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's Romans fourteen to one man, something sent to another.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting that the Lord, the [SPEAKER_00]: The Lord does with absolutely, personally.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that, you know, there's another conversation that I want to talk about because there's a really big lie that oftentimes affects pair-ridden teens, so husbands and wives and their parenting.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I do see that it's being fed mainly first through the moms, which is their ideas regarding parenting philosophies.

[SPEAKER_00]: In one of our conversations, you said something that gentle parenting is a form of legalism.

[SPEAKER_00]: concept of pendulum swinging from one generation of parenting to another.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I just want to dive into that for a minute because I think that there's something really powerful for us to recognize is that every generation does have a distinctive label on it regarding a parenting philosophy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to go over that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Give us a beer.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I use the term legalism.

[SPEAKER_01]: And people often, especially when it's related to general parenting, think, no, this is the opposite of legalism.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm trying to get away from.

[SPEAKER_01]: But legalism is simply whether it's imparting our or religion or workplace or whatever.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's simply saying, here's the formula.

[SPEAKER_01]: Follow it and you will get this.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like putting a quarter in a vending machine, not that anything can be bought for a quarter of these days.

[SPEAKER_01]: And turning the hand on saying, E three, this is what I want.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if because I did this, I will get it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we see this very clearly.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like IVLP parenting from the nineties, very authoritarian, legalistic, dress a certain way, look a certain way, act a certain way.

[SPEAKER_01]: And some of the certain ways weren't even bad ways to look dress an act, but when it became almost a salvific component, or a, [SPEAKER_00]: Judge, I am gearing about when they weren't doing that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you hear it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it would be areas of freedom and Christ or areas of a spectrum of this is still within a god-honoring spectrum.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yet we're saying she's in this part of the spectrum and therefore she's doing it wrong and she's going to have wild rebellious children.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, ironically, we see so many children becoming wild and rebelling against having grown up within the cage of the ultra conservative authoritarian legalistic parenting and then their pendulum swinging to another box of their own making, which is a secularly based [SPEAKER_01]: kind of psychologically guarded, man's wisdom, version of parenting, which is called general parenting, or peaceful parenting, caughtish conscious parenting.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of kind of really pretty sounding labels that are attached to essentially a parenting model that is swinging away from authoritarianism.

[SPEAKER_01]: toward, they call it being authoritative, so they're going to say they hold boundaries, but it's essentially based in the psychological view that children are basically good, that they will choose rightly if they are just given the best environment, the most emotional validation, the freedom, the autonomy to make their choices.

[SPEAKER_01]: And in fact, from a secular viewpoint, it actually takes out because I had a [SPEAKER_01]: debate with a secular psychologist who is a peaceful parent's national parent and she really did not like the terms good and bad or right and wrong.

[SPEAKER_01]: So she said her children would choose love.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was her version of anything that could be called good.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now we see Christian parents adopting this and they're not completely [SPEAKER_01]: is chewing with right and wrong.

[SPEAKER_01]: They might say something as good or bad, but they are basing their definitions on man's wisdom on a psychological definition of kind of your outcome being good or your outcome being favorable.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, like that's not an eyeball base, but I think that sometimes unknowing younger parents will see a term like gentle and they'll think of scriptures, like for the spirit, they'll think of [SPEAKER_00]: Galatians six one through two right brothers if any of you is caught in any transgression let you who are spiritual resource such a one in a spirit of gentleness keep yourself less you to be tempted right so there's this like Carge for parents who are older who are hopefully more spiritually mature restoring their children when they send yeah the biggest problem is that within gentle parenting there is no acknowledgment of sin [SPEAKER_01]: Correct.

[SPEAKER_01]: So they're, again, it is based on a secular source and it makes sense that someone would not be acknowledged.

[SPEAKER_01]: But when we're trying to kind of shoehorn [SPEAKER_01]: our question theology into a secular construct.

[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of times we end up squeezing out the most important things.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the two big ones, from general parenting is that sin nature is not acknowledged or at the very least it is minimized.

[SPEAKER_01]: If it is a Christian who is general parenting, they might say yes, we're all sinners, but children developmentally are not really capable of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to be clear that I am not vilifying children when I say that they have a sudden nature.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying they are out here rubbing their hands together like little evil, like villains trying to run your life.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the Bible makes it very clear in Romans that through Adam we have all inherited this nature, that it's not whether we want to or not, it's that it is in us.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so when we deny that, we deny our children the very reality of the fact that when Jesus died on the cross for our sins, if we don't have that nature, if we haven't ever sinned, if it's always just a force of our environment or the fact that we didn't get enough sleep or our developmental stage that has caused us to make a mistake, have a misstep, have big feelings or whatever it is, then what did Jesus even die for?

[SPEAKER_01]: and we rob ourselves of the opportunity to teach children not your horrible office sinner and God hates you but quite the opposite while you are a sinner Christide for you because he loved you that much.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's also a you take out punishment of any kind which also denies the gospel because Jesus was punished for us.

[SPEAKER_01]: The Bible makes it very clear that the punishment that was supposed to be on us was instead upon him and by his stripes we are healed.

[SPEAKER_01]: And again, if Jesus did all of that, and we're really just basically good, and we can't be held responsible because our circumstances or what forces to anything that might possibly be qualified is not good.

[SPEAKER_01]: But certainly not bad.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're about to go that far.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then what's the point of the gospel?

[SPEAKER_01]: No, it doesn't mean that we're constantly hammering our kids over the head.

[SPEAKER_01]: You did wrong again.

[SPEAKER_01]: You did wrong again.

[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, it's the other direction.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is what an opportunity to praise God for the good that He has done in our lives.

[SPEAKER_01]: You do not have to come at this from a negative perspective.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's also an opportunity.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, one of the things that we talk about a lot on this podcast is parents reframing, rethinking about when they are correcting their child.

[SPEAKER_00]: instead of looking at as drudgery, or they have upset my agenda, or we're doing this again.

[SPEAKER_00]: Why is this happening again?

[SPEAKER_00]: But instead to view it as an opportunity to actually reconcile their [SPEAKER_00]: them to Christ inviting them to understand more of the gospel without sin or children are never going to understand their need for a Savior, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that is one of the pieces of the biblical vocabulary that is so crucial when we're parenting our children.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if we remove that because of advice from a secular psychological parenting philosophy, we're actually putting ourselves in a dangerous position for raising our children, discipling them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, potentially be prideful and thinking they never do anything wrong, that they have it all together.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I know that you and I have talked about how we're starting to see some of the consequences of the gentle parenting that some people are starting to wake up and going, oh, this isn't really working like I thought it would.

[SPEAKER_00]: Can you speak to that for a moment?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I actually get emails pretty regularly from moms who are discovering that they fell down a hole, which gave them the legalistic promise that if you will simply do X Y and Z, if you will emotionally self-regulate, if you will follow the steps from this particular psychological study, if you will make sure that your child is filling all the blanks, their emotions are validated, their autonomy is honored, all of the things, then you will have unbroken with connection with them [SPEAKER_01]: And you will experience this good relationship.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they're kind of going to do, they're going to, to the line.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to be good kids.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to be confident, kind, independent, wonderful kids.

[SPEAKER_01]: And instead, what they find is that they have a child who, when they are constantly validated, when they are, being told they have a boundary that there is no consequence behind that boundary, they have a child whose emotions are even wilder than they were before.

[SPEAKER_01]: They started this whole emotion goals.

[SPEAKER_01]: regulation, you know, kind of focus, and that they themselves are very fresher with their child.

[SPEAKER_01]: They even describe themselves as disliking their children, which I think is honestly kind of logical.

[SPEAKER_01]: We don't tend to enjoy being in the presence of people who take zero responsibility for their behavior, have no consequences, but for their behavior, blame shift, and don't have any emotional regulation, especially when we are being called to do all those things for them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Parents are humans too.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we are more mature than our kids.

[SPEAKER_01]: We've had a lot more time to practice.

[SPEAKER_01]: We had the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit within us when they do not, when they are very small.

[SPEAKER_01]: But we also have struggles.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if the goal is to be a perfect parent, one, you're going to fail.

[SPEAKER_01]: We all are.

[SPEAKER_01]: And two, you're going to find yourself in a panic that your failure is what's causing anything that your child does that is not positive.

[SPEAKER_01]: When instead, if we say, [SPEAKER_01]: We are going through a sanctification process.

[SPEAKER_01]: I am, and my child, if they're not a Christian yet, is being taught this gospel in the hopes that Christ will save them.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that is the goal.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then those struggles become a learning opportunity and a growth opportunity rather than an opportunity to beat yourself up because you didn't do it perfectly or an opportunity to resent your child because what am I going to do about it?

[SPEAKER_01]: I've got to follow this list.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You've heard me talk about how we're members of SMARE to ministries instead of having health insurance, which has been so helpful to our family over the last five years.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I wanted to share an update.

[SPEAKER_00]: They've recently launched Redeem Health Share, which we've now joined.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've also chosen to have flexure, which is an exclusive add-on feature where you can share for things like vision, dental, and preventative care.

[SPEAKER_00]: Redeem is a SMARE to Ministry Program and has more program options to fit your budget and health care needs, all in a modern digital platform.

[SPEAKER_00]: Most importantly, redeem upholds the same commitment that Samaritan Ministries has held for more than thirty years.

[SPEAKER_00]: Christians praying for one another and sharing medical needs together.

[SPEAKER_00]: Learn more at redeemhouseshare.org.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, totally.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I can see the parents also.

[SPEAKER_00]: I understand their intentions with moving forward with it.

[SPEAKER_00]: You talk about the pendulum swing in your book.

[SPEAKER_00]: and the from one generation to the next right we already talked about from the authoritarian to this gentle parenting but before that there was like the hippie era the right yeah we're into that authoritarian area and so what we're seeing is it goes back and forth and back [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Wall Street Journal just did an article about how parents have turned themselves so inside out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I was watching a movie with my girls the other day and one of the characters was saying to her teenage daughter.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'm holding space for your feelings.

[SPEAKER_01]: I am giving you room to speak, I am hearing you, I am validating you, and it was like this really soft whispering voice because I think it's people think gentle means.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think gentleness can be very direct.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just not in kind and harsh and rude, you know, but you can say, hey, it's time to go, let's put on our shoes, you don't have to go.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, sweetie, you know, because we got a lot for personalities here too, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And the giftings and the ways that the Lord has taught us to communicate.

[SPEAKER_01]: So this woman is, oh, it's so, and then the daughter does a respond well at all.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she just is like, that's it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've done holding space.

[SPEAKER_01]: We are going to do this and you're going to do it now.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was just a funny example.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like it was played for comedy of like the pendulum swing going real fast.

[SPEAKER_01]: But there's this wall street.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know talking about how parents are now pendulum swinging away from children parenting because they feel so exhausted from the constant psychological hoop jumping to fathom parenting, which is just a really crass way of saying f around and find out where they're kind of like throwing their I know I know throwing their hands in the air and being like listen.

[SPEAKER_01]: I did everything I was supposed to do, and you are less enjoyable than you were a year ago, and I'm done.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm out.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's some food, eat it or don't eat it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like he says, I think he jesus.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's crazy.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's this element of blame shifting you mentioned that word a couple times.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I see parents the heart intention when they're stepping into pursuing [SPEAKER_00]: doing these parenting philosophies is that they love their kids.

[SPEAKER_00]: They want to come up with them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Want to have really good relationships with them when they're adults.

[SPEAKER_00]: They want to like them.

[SPEAKER_00]: They want to be in relationship, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe they may not feel that way about their own parents.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they're struggling with unforgiveness and bitterness there.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they are really feeling like I have got to turn this around because what I experienced wasn't good.

[SPEAKER_01]: So then yeah, they're like, OK, I'm going to do it all right for my kids.

[SPEAKER_01]: I do think that intention is there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: The math water.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, if you're on the baby out with the bath water and going the complete opposite spectrum, but instead, biblical truth is actually found in the middle.

[SPEAKER_00]: Being gentle, what it doesn't mean and what it does mean.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a biblical perspective on gentle, but also truth and love, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus is called gentle and lowly, and yet he is so clear in his words.

[SPEAKER_00]: He nepharisees.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's directing them in the public square.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's breaking even some of their legalistic laws like healing people on the Sabbath, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's [SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting when you start studying the gospels and you see how Jesus interacts and you see that he's our example.

[SPEAKER_00]: You talked about this at the very beginning of the podcast, how he bore our sins on the cross.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Reminds me of the one of the last chapters, the Tiger Stripes chapter.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know I feel like I missed an opportunity because you that's your stretch marks is not primarily.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just had Barcos vein surgery and ended up with like a whole debacle with like a clot and clots and my lungs and all of these things like really kind of scary not kind of actually a really scary situation.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I am doing better now, praise God, but the Lord really did orchestrate every step to get me to the doctor when I needed to be because it is not an exaggeration to say that I could have died in the middle of the night and not even known there was something wrong with me.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I am dealing with something that, quote, motherhood gave me, like a mark of motherhood that has stretched me, that has caused me pain, interestingly enough by sharing about it, two people came in and said that they got themselves checked.

[SPEAKER_01]: because I shared on social media about that experience and found that they also had clots.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the Lord really does use all things.

[SPEAKER_01]: He works all things together for good for those who love him and are calling according to his purpose.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was such an incredible realization to know that because I walked through something hard someone else was potentially saved from that and praise God.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I do, sorry, I lost my train of thought, I don't usually do this.

[SPEAKER_00]: the tiger spots.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but I do know what it feels like, like, like, leveling this crep and season, very cosphanes and stretch marks on your breasts and like, just all these things are like, oh, come on, really?

[SPEAKER_01]: And yet, I love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I actually just said it earlier that by his stripes, we are healed.

[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't use that first in the book and someone used it the other day and I was like, I missed an opportunity.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, in a reprint, I want to put that in the last chapter.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know how I missed that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus has these marks on his body that he bore for us.

[SPEAKER_01]: He literally shows them to his disciples.

[SPEAKER_01]: Look at my hands.

[SPEAKER_01]: Look at my side as proof that he is who he says he is.

[SPEAKER_01]: And just think about that.

[SPEAKER_01]: These marks on our bodies and our souls on our minds on all the things that we do to pour ourselves out for children.

[SPEAKER_01]: A proof of who we say we are.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just like Jesus did, it's so cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Think of Paul who had a thorn in his side, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: To keep him from becoming arrogant, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like we go through these things because Jesus wants our hearts.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, life is not all about ease.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that's one of the other lies that women are making decisions.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, all people humans make these decisions, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like if it's too hard, then maybe it's not God's will.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's like a false teaching that you see in the church.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or something is a struggle.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe this isn't the right path.

[SPEAKER_00]: If it seems so hard, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: You talked about that in your second book.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that it's important for us to just call out the lies.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love that this is something that you're doing in all three of your books.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I wish that we had more time to talk about this because I know that people are so encouraged by you online.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you guys have to follow Abby, Emma's for Mama on Instagram, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Abby, if there's one last thing that you can share with people about like what was one thing that you had to set aside yourself.

[SPEAKER_00]: that was hard, a decision that you made in your life, where God helped you to be courageous in doing something that you wouldn't have done in your flesh.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would say it's the number of children that I have.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think people assume that if you have a lot of children, it must have been a lifelong dream, something that came easily to you, and was probably like, you're just one of those freaks that, you know, just really enjoys pregnancy, childbirth, doing the newborn and toddler stage over and over again, and you are just, [SPEAKER_01]: built for this.

[SPEAKER_01]: That kind of thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of the narrative that you hear.

[SPEAKER_01]: When the truth is, I have one brother.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't come from an experience with a large family.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had liked changed a couple of baby diapers before I became a mom.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was not gunning for a particular number.

[SPEAKER_01]: I actually asked the word specifically to only give me children one at a time because that's about a surrender design felt.

[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, I have two sets of twins.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he said, absolutely not how about let's do this twice.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can remember times when that pregnancy test came back.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was not mentally and emotionally ready to do it again.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it wasn't because it was a bad thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's because it takes a lot from you.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you know what you're signing up for.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're signing up for the joys of raising another human being, but also the responsibility and the sacrifice.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I hear people all the time say, if my number two is the reason I didn't have my number three.

[SPEAKER_01]: or a number three, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: I have actually had children that I think if we were going by that criteria, I would be have been done after numbers four and five.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, their toddler hood was absolute.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, stretched me to my limit and be on.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yet, [SPEAKER_01]: would I give up any of the children that the Lord gave me after them?

[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm so, so grateful that I, in my, my womanly wisdom did not put my foot down and say absolutely not no more.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is too much because [SPEAKER_01]: I think we often assume that whatever it is we're going through now, the hard that we're doing right now, is going to continue in whatever iteration comes in the future that might introduce that hard.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if we're children, it would be the next child, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: My next child, after Evian Noah, who are my numbers four and five that were so difficult as toddlers, [SPEAKER_01]: but also are such a blessing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like they were blessing when they were difficult.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to say that a child who is difficult is not a blessing.

[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, they are a huge blessing because they show you how much you need Jesus, how much his strength is affected in your weakness, and just how much you have to learn.

[SPEAKER_01]: And those are all gifts, believe it or not, even though they don't feel like it at the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: But then the Lord, there's a very biblical principle of restoring renewing and then going back into the heart.

[SPEAKER_01]: like that's a cycle throughout our Christian life, throughout this time on earth.

[SPEAKER_01]: And one day every chair will be wiped away and every hurt will be healed, but we're not there yet.

[SPEAKER_01]: So my next one after every in Noah, my number six was the [SPEAKER_01]: charmingly easiest little babies squishy toddler he was harder when he was four and five and I had another baby already who was just easy and then the next baby after him was not easy at all so like you don't have control you aren't the orchestrator of your symphony [SPEAKER_01]: You are planning your ways, but the Lord is directing your paths, and you are trusting him.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just like it talks about in Proverbs, three, five and six.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this has been my heart's crisis.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was a teenager, and the Lord has made me stay, I believe, to it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Trust the Lord with all your heart.

[SPEAKER_01]: Leave not on your own understanding.

[SPEAKER_01]: In all your ways, acknowledge him, and he will make your path straight.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we let needle point that on pillows, but do you really think about the fact that it says all your heart and all your ways?

[SPEAKER_01]: That was the biggest thing for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: funny that you say that scripture there's a song for me that was the convicting one it was surrender all remember that song I remember there was one day where I was standing in church and I was I surrender all but I had been wrestling with do we have more babies and in that moment the Holy Spirit convicted me oh are you surrendering all except your womb [SPEAKER_00]: Now, all this Jesus, but you can't let.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's me Lord, but don't bless me with eternal blessings.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it was like really, convicting moment where it broke me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I have the same kind of testimonies you like in the sense that I didn't come from a big family.

[SPEAKER_00]: We never planned to have this many kids.

[SPEAKER_00]: We took it one at a time.

[SPEAKER_00]: We prayed through it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But with conviction of Lord teach me, [SPEAKER_00]: Lord, my life's yours not mine.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm here for you.

[SPEAKER_00]: You sent me on mission, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that is really the encouragement because God designs every family different size and different plan for every family.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're heart in the family that God is building for you is to learn and to give your family back to God, he doesn't need any things with whatever size.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and he changes you so much.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I see my capacity, again, I think I've already said this in this podcast, but I still have so far to go.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm so excited to see the ways that I look back on forty-two-year-old Abby and go, wow, okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: So she had some lessons to learn and I'm grateful that God was gracious to show them to me a little bit of time instead of dumping it all on my head, but you're like, wow.

[SPEAKER_01]: just really not doing great, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if you are in a season, I want to say where you do feel like God has dumped it all on your head and it feels like you're feeling in everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: One, I would say that condemnation is from Satan and conviction is from the Holy Spirit.

[SPEAKER_01]: Condemnation keeps you stuck in conviction, helps you grow and sets you free.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so if the voice in your head says you are worthless and you will never make it and you won't cut out for this and there must have been a mistake you can fight up with the truth of scriptures.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know the plans I have for you plans to prosper you and to bless you and to grow you.

[SPEAKER_01]: That is not.

[SPEAKER_01]: That is not what Satan says.

[SPEAKER_01]: He tells us, he's the father of lies that says, you will never be enough of a chapter in Shrechtmark's called Enough because God made you so.

[SPEAKER_01]: You will never be enough in your own strength, but you know that God of the universe who knit your children together in your womb or suddenly gave them to you through your adoption or foster or whatever.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he did not make a mistake.

[SPEAKER_01]: And your bad, difficult, suffering season, day, week, year, because I've been through years of those, is does not define you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Keep taking it back to the Father.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is not, it is not a platitude to say that he cares.

[SPEAKER_01]: His, your name is Graven on his palms.

[SPEAKER_01]: He has counted the hairs on your head.

[SPEAKER_01]: Isaiah forty says he gently leads those with young.

[SPEAKER_01]: He cares about the details of your life and he is in the business of transforming you through these hard seasons.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, one thing that comes to my mind when you talk about not being enough is a lot of mom struggle with this, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: This, this, this, this lie of I'm not enough for, but, but there is actually truth to it, too.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a good job.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not enough in a sense because when we try to fill everything, every whole for kids, when we try to provide every single thing and we [SPEAKER_00]: We even out of love for them, try to help them to not experience maybe some of the hard consequences that happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I see a lot of parents doing that, where they protect, protect, helicopter parents, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm going to catch them before they fall.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're not going to get scraped me, you know, just this one.

[SPEAKER_01]: From other love instead of mother love.

[SPEAKER_00]: But there's this element of their literally missing opportunity to cry out to God.

[SPEAKER_01]: Mm.

[SPEAKER_01]: Amen.

[SPEAKER_00]: What all for them?

[SPEAKER_00]: So we need to like, it's funny because I've told my kids so many times.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a good thing you have many siblings because I would probably be way up all in your business if I hadn't had so many, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I love being intentional, but having the the amount that I have has me spread to a place where God has to fill the gaps.

[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: Apps, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I just think that for the moms who who are worried, maybe they're worried about having another baby because they can't envision [SPEAKER_00]: They're love growing, being able to fulfill everything they need as a feel for every kid.

[SPEAKER_00]: What I am hearing from you and what I'm feeling convicted to say is it's not all about you fulfilling everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, it really isn't.

[SPEAKER_01]: The Lord can supply your every need according to his richest was just in Christ Jesus.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if we truly believe that, then that means that that applies to every aspect of our lives.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I really, I wrote, you bet your stretch marks for every mom.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just for moms who have the literal physical marks.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not for brand new moms, although it is.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just for brand new moms.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is for the moms that have gotten to where their kids are graduating or beyond.

[SPEAKER_01]: and they're asking themselves, is it worth it?

[SPEAKER_01]: And this is my answer.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you better stretch marks it is.

[SPEAKER_01]: The stretch marks have grace that the Lord has placed on every aspect of your life to show you your desperate need for him.

[SPEAKER_01]: And every mom in between at every age and every stage because it's full of scripture, it's full of practical encouragement on ways that you can actually implement intentionality, on ways that you can recognize conviction and then pivot, on ways that you can teach your children God's ways without feeling like you have to compartment [SPEAKER_01]: and realize every aspect of your life or happy like Batman and his fortress of solitude during your Bible time by yourself.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a ton of really practical things, there's relatable stories, there's Bible verses out the Wazoo and I just really [SPEAKER_01]: want you to understand that the Lord is for you and I wrote these books to call out the lies of culture but then to speak truth because we don't just say they're wrong they're wrong but instead God's right and you are walking a path that he has set before you so walk it in spirit and truth because he will be set beside you every step of the way okay so before we go chapter ten on legacy you talk to the lot about legacy on a courageous parent and podcast [SPEAKER_00]: One of the things that a lot of parents are, and rightfully so doing is they're, they're looking at the generational curses or the generational sin if they, especially if they haven't come from a Christian home.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they're a new legacy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I know that for my husband and I, we have tried to leave a new legacy.

[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't come from a Christian home.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so there was this like intentionality for him and learning what does it look like to be a Christian husband and father.

[SPEAKER_00]: and pursuing books.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I love this book for many reasons because well, all three of them because what you're doing is you're helping those moms who maybe need vision for what it can potential.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, here's the thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not what it looks like.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's the outcome that comes from having the right mindset.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: The ring.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: So instead of make it through today, make it through tomorrow, make it through this week, make it through this season until my kids can all go to school until I don't have anybody in diapers.

[SPEAKER_01]: Instead, you think everything I'm doing now has an eternal impact and rather than letting that overwhelm you, let it inform your efforts.

[SPEAKER_01]: I actually had thirteen Titus two women, you're one of them, contribute to the end of every chapter in this book and the leaving of legacy, mothering with a legacy mindset.

[SPEAKER_01]: my mom actually writes the end of that because she is such an example and an encouragement to me of what it looks like to turn away from ungodly ways before her and break to an racial curses truly without bitterness and unforgiveness and blame casting but instead to say I will walk this new path of the Lord has set me on and I will do it with conviction and tensionality and excellence because I know it is setting up future generations for godliness I can't control it but I can contribute to it and [SPEAKER_01]: Man, that changes your perspective all the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I keep on thinking of things that these listeners need to hear.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so sorry, but I like, okay, you said your mom, she didn't harbor bitterness.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's nice.

[SPEAKER_00]: Good note.

[SPEAKER_00]: to end our time together on because I think if people are listening right now and they are starting a new legacy, there's probably even potential trauma in the past.

[SPEAKER_00]: And forgiving doesn't mean that you're letting someone off the hook if there was trauma.

[SPEAKER_00]: What it does is you're letting yourself off the hook.

[SPEAKER_00]: of being controlled and then they're better.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because that bitterness defiles many.

[SPEAKER_00]: And when you're talking about legacy, what it's actually defiling is your future generations.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's a need and a call for us as Christians, it's something we're called to do seven times seventy, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Be forgiving of people.

[SPEAKER_00]: And truly, if you want to leave a new legacy, I think that the first step is being able to forgive and being able to move on and having that freedom and Christ.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it helps you not to have a reactionary form of parenting.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're not simply thinking, this is what my parents did, so I will do something different.

[SPEAKER_01]: But instead you're thinking, this is how God has called me to be.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that is, that makes it worth it right there, obeying God.

[SPEAKER_01]: I talk in hard sense, same thing as bad about how my dad has bipolarism and that we really had to walk me through a process of forgiveness.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think it's bad that [SPEAKER_01]: My kids have been able to see that process.

[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, I think it's a very good thing for them to see someone who struggles when we don't ever experience struggle, we get prideful, and we cannot relate to others.

[SPEAKER_01]: We have no compassion for those who struggle because we assume that our quote unquote easy experience is everybody's, but that's not true.

[SPEAKER_01]: And no one is going to escape this life without some formal struggle.

[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus told us that we would have trouble in this world, in tribulation, but to be a good share because he has overcome it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I just really, [SPEAKER_01]: I wrote all three of these books because I see so many moms drowning in the belief that they must bootstrap their way through motherhood and then coming up so empty and so unfulfilled and so miserable when in fact there is joy in parenting and it is possible to actually feel [SPEAKER_01]: purpose and connection and to be honoring God in that process and I want to show people that not because I do it perfectly far from it, but because God does it perfectly.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's beautiful.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Abby.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so glad that you made it through another week.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm too.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for having me, Angie.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hey guys, I hope you are as encouraged by today's episode as I was just even having the conversation with Abby.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just so important that we surround ourselves with like-minded women who can.

[SPEAKER_00]: sharpness, as iron sharpens iron.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I hope that our time together with you guys really felt like you were sitting down having a really strong dialogue cup of coffee with two older sisters in Christ.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because that's, that was really, truly our heart.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hope you're encouraged.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can find out more about Abby's book.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you go to cragesparantine.com, there is an Amazon link to her book.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's called Yuppet Your Stretch Marks.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can also find out more about Abby from TheGragesParenteen.com.

[SPEAKER_00]: Show notes of today's podcast episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have links to all of the websites and all of that stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you go there, make sure that you're on TheGragesParenteen website and email us because we're also sending out an email that has all of the information there as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: Another thing I wanted to mention to you really quick is that if you have a desire to go through this book and have accountability from other sisters in Christ, be encouraged and to really cultivate that strong biblical community, she has a study guide.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I really think that the study guide would facilitate really powerful discussion and accountability between sisters in Christ.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this together, you bet your stretch marks and the study guide together would be a great book study to go through.

[SPEAKER_00]: So hope you guys are encouraged and we'll see you next week.