Yes, it's Lip Server sided Antela yee.

I'm Gg Maguire, Geordie George, and I'm Annie Samuel.

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, she is back.

Y'all know I love Real Housewives and Potomac.

So I'm glad to see you back on the show on your term.

Thank you.

Yes, it feels good to be back.

Yeah, and your energy is like everybody's like, she's so zen like now and I'm bothered.

You know what I thought?

Initially, I was like when you first go on a show, you learn a lot, like in retrospect when you are like I should have did this, and like, like you said, you know, how you react is how you react, but you have to kind of like learn how to I guess, you know, come across the way you are.

You know.

It was it was interesting because I was so emotionally wired and I was also not as emotionally like intelligent as I thought I was, and I had so much on my plate that adding reality TV into it at that time, I just didn't see it coming and I really needed to take a step back and just like.

I'm like, who am I Like?

What is going on?

And I thought that I had such great control over myself and my identity.

But absolutely not.

I said.

I always say they're gonna put you in positions like where you normally in real life you wouldn't be in that position, but they'll place you here, and they're like, go yeah.

And I felt like I always had to explain myself, like I always had something to prove, and I'm just like, no, it didn't happen like this.

It happened like that.

And I'm in a place now where I'm so rooted in who i am after doing all the work that I've done on myself that i don't have anything to prove to anybody.

And I'm actually standing in my transparency and authenticity in a way that I won't allow any shame, judgment, or guilt put me in a place where I'm shaming myself and I'm mad at myself.

It's like I'm gonna live and I'm gonna learn, just like everybody else.

You know.

I love this.

You have a book coming out January four, if that's the day after my birthday.

Just put it out there, a Catcorn book, Love Letters from Versions of Myself, a memoir of self discovery, transformation and healing.

And you really did a deep dive into yourself to actually write this book.

So I know it has to be nerve wracking to know the world is going to be reading this.

It's nerve wracking, and it's also exciting because when I tell you I spent four years writing this book, it started out as just me journaling.

So I needed an outlet.

I needed to feel like my voice could be heard.

And at the time, you know, going through a divorce and everybody not knowing why because I made an image that looked so great that when I finally was like, I can't do it anymore.

Even my family couldn't understand what was going on.

So I needed an outlet.

I started to journal, and at times when it felt like really heavy, I started writing love letters to myself.

Actually, my first letter I wrote was actually to my ex husband, and it's the letter that I wrote to him with the intention of never giving it to him.

I just needed to get it all off my us so and to this day never gave it to him.

So I realized how much of her release that was, and I said, you know what, I'm gonna start writing these love letters to me.

And I would notice a few months down the road would pass and I would go back and read it, and it was exactly what I needed to hear in that moment.

So I just kept it going and I was like, you know what, this can be a book.

Yeah, yeah, it is.

We're going to get somewhere into that.

But first I want to talk about something that went viral recently.

Yes, okay, so you like, I'm listen because I haven't seen you talk about this yet.

Yep.

But there was some pictures of you and and you did radio radio sisters, and I remember when you said this was going to be a you know, you announced that you were leaving in DCWPGC.

Yep.

Oh okay, so this is the last time that you will be tapping in with me.

Today is my last day as co host on Good Morning Show.

I've been crying all morning.

I decided about a month ago, and I had a very difficult conversation with my team, my tribe about three weeks ago, and I let them know that I decided to officially resign as co host.

On a good morning show.

I finally just made the decision that I need to do with best for myself and my children.

Yep.

And that was a big deal.

Because it was something that you loved doing, but you wanted to focus on family and other things and bet on yourself.

And I know how that feels too, I'm betting on yourself.

But then recently these pictures and videos and mergy of you and your former co host Jason, and it looked like you guys were hugged up and people were like, Oh, he's married, what's going on here?

So what was that all about?

So first, so much and I'm an unpack it as easily and as neatly as possible.

So when I was going through the divorce, I was separated but still living in the same house.

Jason and I were like great friends, Like we never spent any time outside the studio, nothing like that.

As I was going through the whole divorce process, the separation, everything like that, he was giving me this advice that I was like, you have to have been through something to be able to give me this type of advice.

We started to have like an amazing friendship outside of work, and I started to learn some things about what he was going through.

So we connected on that level.

Him being separated living in the same house, but people not knowing because obviously he's not you know, out there like that in reality TV space.

Mine was more public and it was a friendship that was genuinely a friendship that turned very emotionally connected and then it turned romantic.

And the reason this video is out there right now is because my ex husband actually leaked.

At whooh yeah, my goodness.

Yeah, like legit.

He has been showing this video to everybody.

And the bigger question is how did he get it?

So off the cloud?

The cloud?

No, he actually got it from a former friend of mine who you know, when you go through divorce, you lose some friends, you lose some family.

It was it blew my mind.

So for whatever reason, yes, for whatever reason, this particular former friend, we were cool and then it was just like and she was the only person that I was sharing this information with her and my mom, and she ended up giving it to him and he used it as an intimidation tactic because he did not want me back on reality TV.

He's afraid of my book coming out, so he has been showing it.

So people, like in a reality TV world on social media, they think they know who he is, but he's a completely different person thanks to me.

People think that he is.

What her because you know, the family life to appair perfect than did a good job.

Thank you and to my so interesting because I feel like you've taken even in this book.

It's not like you dragged him at all.

There was a couple of truths that you have that I feel like you expressed in a way that you weren't blaming him for the way that things transpired.

Yeah, it was just he was never going to be the person that you thought he would grow to be.

Yes, a lot of times women married potential and men marry and want to stay the same, you know, and it was that mixed up.

And I was like, look, it's not fair for me to keep you in this position, like be who you are, but who you are is just not where I want to be anymore.

I'm evolved, I'm growing.

So it just got really nasty recently.

I can't believe.

Yeah.

Yeah, so there's a friend that's been on the show Cookie.

She and I stopped talking years ago.

Cookie listen.

And it's really interesting because it initially got leaked on one of her very well known fake Twitter pages.

So yeah, everybody knows I can show girl.

I know so much already, so much came out, but you know what's crazy.

He tried to use that video to intimidate me from coming back, and I got to the point where I was like, you know what, whatever, like do what you gonna do.

So it was always like then it was like, well, I ain't gonna do that you the mother and my child.

I ain't gonna do that the mother my children.

But then he still did it.

But then he was even intimidating the other parties, reached out on Instagram dms like call me, I need to talk, and then threatening I'm gonna put this out on social media.

So this wasn't a surprise.

It was just didn't know when.

But it wasn't in the video is two years years ago?

Yeah, because I said that's what people were saying.

So he was going through his own separation at home while you were going through what you were going through.

That is wild.

And then you left the show last year.

Yeah, I quit because I so my children.

Now I'm really getting into it.

My children were not dealing with the on and off again, week on, week off living arrangements.

And they really needed me.

My children are homeschool so I was literally getting up at three in the morning going to work and then coming back on my week having to homeschool them, I miss listen all of that, go to bed at like nine o'clock at night to do it again, and I felt like I just couldn't get ahead of the schedule.

And when I tell you, out of all the jobs I've ever had, that was the one I did not want to walk away from, I loved radio.

So yeah, I made the decision.

And I was like, you know what, I'm not gonna be able to do this anymore.

But you want a different time slot, baby, Yeah.

I really, I really want to make it work.

But my children they're at an age where they really needed me.

And uh.

And it was funny because once again he started this whole rumor that I got fired.

I know, it's just insane, and it's been a lot because I actually this is the first time I'm really putting it out there, because he has done so much in the neighborhood, in the streets of Potomac, and anybody that lives in Potomac that has cross paths with him knows exactly what I'm saying.

Within five minutes, he will pull out his phone.

My kids even said that he has a whole folder with screen shops and pictures of me, and at one point it's been bad and to the point where he would even tell me I got eyes on you.

It's you focus on it, Like, how does it go from we were in love to like, do you hate me?

You know what I mean?

Like, what is that about?

Because I and even watching Real Housewives and seeing like we've all seen this is kind of part of the storyline is Stacy.

People are saying that she's dating him or whatever happens, she dated him and You're like, I don't care.

You haven't been together for two years and you really seem genuinely like I literally don't care.

I'm like, are you good with kids?

Very much.

Like she got a nine year old daughter.

Okay, if y'all dating, cool, the kids can't have a play date.

When I said, you know you're when you are honestly like, I wish you well.

Yeah, and I really I really do wish him well.

But I will also wish for him to leave me alone.

It's like, let me live my life.

You're living your life.

You're dating and doing whatever you want to do.

And what's crazy is I'm not even dating.

I'm not even to that point yet.

And honestly, the way things are paying out even with that, it's like, I would even hate to bring somebody into a situation where he's acting the way he's acting and we're trying to co parent, you know's yeah, it's.

A lot, and how is navigating co parenting?

Who a lot?

O?

MG, Like it's gotten even worse.

And what's interesting is I stayed pretty quiet and I tried my best not to bash because I didn't want it to affect our co parenting.

And he got to the point where he started saying very inappropriate things to the children.

He told the children about the video that y'all saw, He actually described it to them, And I'm like, why are you telling At the time they were eleven, nine and six, why are you telling children these crazy twisting The narrative of why the marriage ended made it like, oh, your mam was having an affair and she was cheating.

No accountability, sir, no sense, like because you know, it's one thing, like you took accountability for why things maybe on your end, right, But he hasn't been able to face the fact that you talk about the lack of affection, the lack of intimacy.

There was even one prayer in a book where things did get physical that you described on one occasion.

Yeah, in the book that felt scary, but witnesses were there, Yeah, to actually see him basically lift you up by your throat.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's crazy because I think what had me the most was me rationalizing things afterward, you know, and it's like, well, well, I did kind of it on I did kind of instigate it, and it's just like, all right, I'm gonna just let it go.

And when you're in a marriage and when you've seen it growing up, it's almost like yo, like this is normal, Like okay, we'll get over it.

And that was one of the biggest things that led me to get to that point where I was like, you know what, I can't do this anymore.

When I started to think about the fact that my children are witnessing me have behavior that's opposite of what I preached to them, which is self love, and they're watching me run myself and deplete myself into the dirt, and this is being allowed, you know.

And I felt like I just had to keep proving myself and proving myself and I'm like, wait, but we're married, why should I have to prove myself to a person, you know, and we're supposed to be equal, so it was just it's just been a very difficult situation.

But the reason why I speak out.

And I'm talking more and more about it now is because I felt so alone going through it.

I didn't realize that there were other people that had the same experience until I started talking more about it, and then I would have women dm me that are like all age groups.

They're like, what you're saying, you're describing exactly how my marriage is.

I thought I was the only one, and that was the push for me to just you know, I'm like, I can't keep remaining silent and protecting you know.

I feel like as black women, we're just rooted to protect black men, but black.

Men got to step up too.

We're downplaying what happened to you so that it doesn't harm him or what he has going on.

And it's like there's even one part where you talk about how and listen you way for if the full book is out, so you can read it innoc entiety, so don't worry.

It's a lot more to it.

But you even talk about this scene where you know you got into it on the show and behind the scenes he was like, yeah, babe, you you know you did that, and then on camera he was like completely completely different and not having your back in any way.

Yeah.

And then when so when people see me react, they're not realizing why I'm reacting that way.

They're like, oh, you being mean, Na, Chris, Oh you're being And I'm like, y'all don't know what just happened right before these cameras went up, or y'all don't know what was edited out that caused me to have that reaction.

And it's like, it's like, paint a picture as if I'm this terrible wife if you want to.

But even as of this year, you're still running around trying to bash me, trying to you know, you're bitter, and it's just like, dude, like, get over it.

Did he want to get divorced when you brought it up?

Because I know you said that you would never bring it up until the day that you were finally like, yeah, let's get divorced.

He would use it as a like, as a weapon because he didn't believe that you would.

He ain't really gonna do.

It, even up until the point that we got divorced.

He told that same friend, former friend.

He told her after the divorce was finalized, and the judge was like, all right, you know done.

He told her, Well, you know I read that you can have like maybe like two months after the divorce is finalized to change your mind.

And she's like she looked at him, like she's not changing her mind, you know.

So you know I wish him well.

Like I said, at this point, you know, co parenting has gotten so bad.

I'm like, what am I protecting?

You know, It's like you want to be mad at me.

You're gonna stay mad at me.

There's nothing I can do about that.

And all I need to do is focus on my kids.

That's what I've been focusing on and doing whatever I can to support my children.

Yeah.

No, listen, and thank goodness you've been doing the work on yourself, because imagine if this would have been Monique, you know, five years ago, what that would have been like because of the same meanthustics that you are with the clarity you have today, and you did go and get therapy.

Absolutely, so I want to talk about that because all through this book it's giving I see the last journey of what it is that you've learned on this journey.

Thank you.

Yes, therapy was so important.

The first thing was like, you normalize things right when you're growing up, and then you grow up and get married and everything is normal because you saw it when you were a kid.

I didn't realize that I had childhood trauma.

Like my therapist was listening to me retell stories and her mouth just dropped and she was like, that's not normal, Like how did you feel about that in that moment, I'm like, I didn't feel anything.

Yeah, it was regular.

She was like, no, it's not.

And it was like once she started pointing out how I was responding to the situation, she said, you have emotionally turned off.

That's why you don't feel anything.

And let me tell you when I started to let myself feel the feelings, Oh my goodness.

That was chapter six.

She's dying.

I went through it.

I had to purge all.

Like people think about healing and they think it's so great to heal, it's not because you have to revisit everything that has traumatized you, you know, and through therapy and through journaling, through just being outside of nature.

Ayahuasca, Oh, yes, ayahuasca.

I want to ask about the.

Golden Teachers, still ecitement whatever.

It's like, they really help you to speed track the healing, but you still have to go through the process.

And that's why so many people don't heal.

Tell me about the ayahuasca because this is something that we said years No, no, Jordan, you haven't either, because I want to do it, but I'm also nervous and I know you have to have like a shaman and yeah, you know it.

And I'm not nervous.

I just haven't had the opportunity yet.

Well okay, but I wasn't able to go.

So if you go, I have a place that I went to that I can definitely give you.

I researched for a year before I actually took the journey and went on the trip.

And where did you go?

I went to Costa Rica and there there was a small group.

So I will not do the ones where it's a bunch of people because that's a lot of energy experienced, you know.

So I did one that was very small and intimate, and they had the shamans.

The shamans weren't people who just said, oh I love this, let me just start my own practice.

They've actually been rooted in plant medicine since they it's a part of their generational line, so they just were raised up in it, and I felt very comfortable and it is amazing.

It literally is like.

The best way I can describe by aauasca is like you're you're going through a tunnel and then you hit a wall, and most people will try to figure out how to get around that wall, and they might chisel at it.

Ayahuasca's gonna knock it down.

So when it goes into your body, it searches for your trauma blocks because every time you've experienced anything traumatic, you store it in your body somewhere.

So the ayahuasca finds it and it punches it down like with no mercy.

So it's best for you to just say, Okay, we're in this together, like don't fight it, because then you're going to have a hard time.

So when you are basically just like okay, let's deal with it.

For me, it was like I was watching my life on a movie screen.

Like it was as if I was sitting and I'm watching me to the point where I'm remembering things that I didn't even remember when I was there, things that were years ago.

I can see exactly what clothes I had on, how my hair was like.

It was incredibly intense, and it allowed me to push those feelings in that blockage right out the way, like right away.

So in the way that this particular company did it, they had breakdown sessions where you were able to kind of talk about it.

They give you a chance to just kind of like sit with yourself and process what you just experienced.

And I did like a five day so we did actually like three ceremonies and it was incredible, Like for me, it really changed my life.

It actually put me in a place of gratitude for where I was going through my divorce with my ex husband.

Even where I felt let down by him, I was grateful to him and I focused on what I was grateful about.

If it wasn't for him, I wouldn't even be in a position to even open my eyes.

He pushed me to that limit to make me set those boundaries right before him.

I had no boundaries.

So it was really it was really deep.

It was good.

I loved it.

It was great for me.

Like I'm sold listen, It's something that I always hear about.

I've always wanted to do.

But of course I want to have a good experience.

Yeah, you know what I do it, but I know it's also not like a good fun experience and yeah, but I also know it is life changing.

They always say, yeah.

You have so many companies that are like popping up and just doing them because they had a good time or they are like, oh, this is a good money maker.

So you have to just watch out and make sure that the ones you're going to are actual shamans who have been raised in plant medicine.

So but yeah, but it's speed tracks.

You're healing, so it will put you on a path something that could have taken you ten years to process and get over.

You're going to process it and it takes.

You ten years.

To find it during the long time ago.

No, yeah, and even being married for ten years.

I think it's interesting because I always hear people say like after marriage sometimes like the intimacy can be harder.

I want to ask you, like, when you first were together, do you feel like it was good and then it got worse or was it always something that you felt like the intimacy wasn't where you needed it to be, but you thought you would work up to it and they would improve me.

I thought it was going to improve.

Yeah.

We actually it's so funny.

We used to tell this story to people that were close to us.

But we had one of our worst arguments on our honeymoon, and that was the first sign.

Wow.

Yeah on our honeymoon.

Because I don't know what type of delusion I was in, but I expected, all of a sudden, now we're married, that he would be this like romantic person.

And we were sitting in the Maldives and I remember I was so upset with him and I was like, you're treating me like I'm one of the homies, Like there's no affection, there's no like catering to me.

You want me to just cater to you.

And we got into a bad argument.

We sent at the dinner take money of his on the honeymoon, and we were able to kind of work through it.

But working through it was always me having to just like push down my feelings right and just like like all right, I guess it ain't a big deal, and then move past it when it really was a big deal.

Yeah.

My mom said, the first time you heard my dad yeo was their wedding day.

Wow.

She was like, oh, that was yeah.

She was like, that was an indication right there that it wasn't gonna be what I thought it would.

Yeah, we I.

Ignored so many reflects.

But you really wanted to be married?

Where did that come from?

Growing up in a household with two parents, and because both of my parents they they struggled.

I mean, they would have flat out arguments and don't if you saw in the book, I detailed one and when I tell you I was going to really kill your mother.

Yeah, I really thought in my mind, because I'm young, I'm thinking that this just happens and people get past it and they get over it.

And yeah, so I always wanted to be married.

I did go through it time where I was just like, I don't want to be married when my parents got divorced, because I just felt like, if y'all been through all of that and I witnessed all of that, why are y'all divorcing now?

And then years later, here I am getting married and finding myself in so many of the same situations I witnessed when I was growing up.

Maybe not as intense, but still it's like, you know, just reinventing the wheel or reliving the wheel that was there interesting oh.

Go ahead.

Do you think you would marry again?

I would, but I don't necessarily think it has to be like married on paper the government style, like because after going through a divorce and realizing how much you have to wait.

The government for the government, Yes, it's crazy.

And the only reason that I was able to even get a divorced as quickly as I did is because I just was like, I wasn't fighting him, I didn't even have an attorney.

I was like, I just want to be done.

I was so miserable, I said, I want to be done with this, like I just want my peace and just let me go, leave me alone.

Because divorce could be so ugly when people are the terms and get every teen going back and forth.

And then also to know what you deserve, because sometimes people try to make it seem like, well he had this career and he did this, why does she deserve But sometimes we make a lot of sacrifices.

Yes, because you know, raising three kids is a full time job, and master you paid nannies and paid yeah, you know people to do those things.

How much that would end up being And then there's things that you wanted to do, like you said you didn't want to give up radio.

But at the same time, you're homeschooling your kids, you want to make sure you're there three children at home.

He wasn't going to say, will let me you know, sacrifice?

No, no, and no child support, no nothing.

I didn't want anything.

I was like, I just I wanted to be I don't want to be free.

I wanted to be free.

I really did, and I still do.

It's like, you know, now things is changing because I'm like, you know, we're having to modify custody, we're having to really like we were in court, like I'm just like, this is ridiculous.

We're going through more now being over two years divorced than going through the divorce process.

So wait, no child support?

So did you get any type of like what did they call it?

Alimony?

Yeah?

Alimony.

We had a prenup, so I was able to get with the prenup a lot of which when we did the prenup, it wasn't with the mindset of us having children.

It was like, if I didn't have children and whatever I got with the prenup, oh that would have been fine.

I would have just walked away good.

But I still walked away and I was just like, God will figure it out.

Like you're not my source.

God's my source.

I'm going to always be good and that's what I just have faith in the fact that I'm always gonna be well taken care of.

And I've been.

I left my job over a year ago and.

I've been good.

You know, everything has been so much.

I love that for a year.

Yeah, listen, I'm like me and my children.

Since I've been divorced, we've been to eight different countries.

We still travel.

I don't tell them know when they ask for things, because they're great kids.

And I loved that I don't have to like second guests, like, oh do I have to because I need to pay these bills and say I'm like, I'm blessed and I have more than enough and I'm good.

And I think some people get mad at that.

Yeah, well, you know, what is it like now being back on the show on Real housewiseh Potomac because it's different now.

You know, it's been a few seasons that you've been gone.

Yes, and now I did not expect this, you know, to have either, girl, because you have a abbit watcher of not just me, but the entire franchise.

Yeah, and when I heard you was coming back, I could not wait to see what's going to happen.

And you know, it was so like unplanned, it was very unexpected.

Like literally they every year they asked me back and I'd be like no, even this year, I told them no about seven eight times.

I talked to the SVP at the production company, Lorraine and I love and we talked and she was just like, look, I'm gonna be in town next week.

I don't even want you to answer me.

She said, don't say anything.

She said just think about it.

And I was like, okay.

So I listened to her.

And a week later I was like, why am I not going back?

Like what is keeping me from it?

I felt like I was saying ain't no out of habit versus like reason.

Yeah, And I sat back and thought, and I was like, I guess I can do it.

This would be the best way to see how much I've actually healed.

Right, But I've been so excited and even though there's like drama stuff going on now, I still like I had a great time.

Like a lot of the job, ain't got nothing to do because it's all like your whole situation is nothing compared to like Aaron went to jail, Wendy.

Everybody's having issues, yes, Like, look, I'm just going through right myself is off camera.

I'm like, I'm dealing with it.

It's been, it's been.

It's been insane, but it's also been good for me because now I'm able to go back and not feel like I have to protect anybody cover things.

I'm just like, I'm me, this is it.

They're gonna want you to date somebody, I'm.

Gonna want it, but I'm gonna just force it.

Look, I ain't paying for the I ain't hiring no.

You know, have you formed any new friendships with the ladies that you just met this season since you've been filming with them.

I wouldn't say friendships, but I've been cool with everybody.

I feel like there's potential for it.

I really like Tiya Is.

At first, I was just like, what's her deal?

You know?

But I wasn't really around that much like you'll see me kind of in and out because I was traveling.

I still had things that were on my schedule.

I signed a contract and they were at my house filming the next day.

It was they really were actually happy to have you.

Yeah, she's a cute guy.

You know in the last episode.

Yeah that was female drag.

People don't give her so fun she is, but actually she she owns her stuff.

Like one thing about Ashley, if she's being messy, she will own that she's being messy.

Yes, she knows what she don't care.

Yeah, because that's one thing you also learned filming, and you've talked about this, is that you gotta do like sometimes they don't pick up on the little things and the little conversations, but when you do something wild, you know, that's what gets onto the actual episode.

Absolutely absolutely, and you never know.

Like filming is fun, it's once they edit it and they create whatever, then it's like, wait, what about when I said this?

So what about that?

You know?

But but now I look at it from a different lens, and like I said, I don't have to protect anything.

You know, prior when I was married.

Once we're watching the season if I said something that you know, he didn't.

Like, and then it was like why you say that?

Why you have to say like that?

And now I don't don't be saying d D.

So now when I film the next season, I'm second guessing myself.

I'm like, you know, it was just like the Way to the world felt like it was on me, and I couldn't really be me because I was afraid that I might say the wrong.

His image, because he's concerned about that.

Yes, I forget about the reality because that can actually help you heal too.

Absolutely.

You know, people talk about the reasons why relationships don't work, and they always say one of the top reasons is finances.

Adultery, of course is always up there too, you know, intimacy, things like that, what would you say for you was the top reason if you have to say, like this was the number one reason why we couldn't connect.

I felt like I was being used, Like I didn't feel like I was really being like appreciated for what I bought, what I brought to the relationship.

And then he didn't feel like he was being appreciated for what he brought.

He looked at it as well, I'm I'm paying for everything that's providing, and I'm looking at him like, but you're not, like I don't even know you something you're not nursuring.

Sometimes it's form of control too, like where people are like I'm financially providing and that should be enough.

Do what I say.

Yeah, And that was definitely the case.

It was like if we got into an argue, it would be because I'm expressing like my feelings on something and expecting that emotional covering.

But it was like me bringing up or expressing my feelings or what hurt my feelings was like I'm being ungrateful because I pay for all of this, right.

So we just couldn't see eye to eye.

And it was a constant argument where it was like, you know, he's retired, he wanted to live life and be retired, but I'm like, but we got three kids, yeah, you know, And I'm like, and I felt as though because he had played football and he made this money and we were dating for half his career, we didn't get married until after he retired, and it felt like it was always his.

So I never felt like I could actually relax and I could never just like enjoy it with him.

I could organize events and trips, but it was like, okay, yeah, he would go along with it, but we weren't ever together in on it.

Like it was like I was doing all the doing and he was paying for it.

Ye, So and it wasn't.

An equal balance.

It was more just you doing him pay for it.

Yeah, it is.

It is.

And when people say, like like somebody said that they felt as though I left the marriage because of his money, And I'm like, what sense does that make?

If I wanted his money, I would have stayed for the money.

I would have saved out here balling out, it's like, but I didn't marry your bank account.

I didn't marry you because of what you had.

I really wanted us to be a power comple I wanted us to really be able to have these deep talks.

And I feel like a wall went up with him once we got married, almost like I can't be vulnerable anymore because I have to be the man.

Do you think it bothered him to not be doing for playing football anymore?

Absolutely, because that's part of it too for a lot of professional athletes.

You know, He's used to being celebrated in that way for that and then now I'm not doing this anymore.

Yeah, And I know that's an adjustment for somebody to make.

Also, Yeah, there was a lot of I mean it was depression.

It was depression, Like pretty much our whole marriage, there was depression and it was like towards the end is when he really accepted it, but by that time I was done, and then it was still like yes, like I don't.

I tried to pull him along as much as I could in every way, and it was like, there was nothing else I could do for you, And why am I saving you?

Why am I having to fix you?

And I don't think that that's fair to either one of us.

Especially feelings about he's used to being the household name and that kind of shifted when you had your own public persona.

How did he react to that?

You know, it's interesting because on the outside he was always very excited about it, like, yeah, my wife, you know this, that and the other.

She's a star.

But it makes me wonder if that was just what you were saying.

But what did you really feel?

And did you ever tell you he was proud of you.

He was saved in front of other people.

But not in an intimate setting.

We're in a private setting.

No, we barely talked towards the end, like we barely talk like when I did that second on reality show Love and Marriage DC.

The most the more.

The most we talked was actually camera, which was terrible being married or being in a relationship and being lonelier than you would be if you were single, because that is the worst.

People always are you single.

You thish you that you listen, I would rather be single than married and still alone and married and miserable.

I have chills right now while you're saying that, because you just took me back to a space where I remember sitting on the couch and I'm literally sitting next to him, and i am crying, and I'm like, i have never felt so lonely and I'm literally sitting right next to you.

It was like we just I was trying to find different ways of connection, and I felt like I was always.

The one trying.

And then, you know.

I just feel like he really did the best that he could, you know, like I don't, I'm not.

It was like that was what he could gift based on how he was brought up, based on the emotional connections that he had with his own family and parents and things like that, and he was doing in his mind, he's doing better than what his parents did.

Did he ever do therapy or did you suggest it?

Or yeah, oh we did everything.

We tried.

We really did.

We really did try.

We did We've seen so many therapists, And wasn't.

That something that you brought to him like maybe we should talk to somebody, maybe we should seek therapy, yes, to try to work on things.

And was he initially accepted of it because you know, black men feel like they can't tell people their business.

They feel like they can't sit down in front of somebody and really be open, and.

They feel like people take a side to that.

Yeah, So was that something that when you brought it to him, did he fight kind of about it or was he agreeing?

He didn't fight, He was like, all right, let's do do it.

He was always, let me tell you, he was always down.

Like if I brought something to him, it was always like okay for the most part, but it was like I was just like, okay, can you make some suggestions?

Can you put for it more effort?

Right?

Right?

So yeah, so he definitely he would take part in it.

But that ended up being even interesting because it would be a situation that he would he might bring up in therapy something that we actually went through work through, and I could have been the one that was wrong, right, and then we would work through it, and then I wouldn't do that thing anymore.

And but then when we go to therapy, he would bring that up.

We passed that, figure that out.

I was like, I was like, wait, did we solve it.

He's like, well, yeah, I've done it again.

Yeah, let it go.

He was like yes.

It was like if I bring up a current situation, you got an old one back in your back pocket that you want to bring right And I'm like, no, this is worse.

When it happens.

And we did that and he don't bring it back up.

Now.

I want to ask you a couple of things about the show.

All right, So what are your thoughts about what Wendy is going through right now?

Oh my goodness.

First, I know I can't talk while you weren't on the show, but it seems like you guys be connected and are finding your way into friendship.

Yeah.

First of all, any when you are on reality TV, I mean, people are going to make whatever out of nothing, and we don't know what her side of the story is, we don't know what Eddie's side of the story is.

And just looking at the whole circus, with the whole like press conference and all of the its just something about it just seems really off, And I'm always a little hesitant to make any type of judgments when you have a predominantly like black family living in a predominantly like white neighborhood, because it just feels like, I'm like, there's something that's missing here, you know.

I felt that when she was saying, we didn't like have fake credit cards, we just gave different names so protect yeah, to get delivered to.

And they were like ridiculous.

Yeah, so it wasn't So I can see that because sometimes people don't want to give right right.

Because we I mean, when I was still living in Poton with my ex, we would have people literally roll up to our house knocking on our door asking for jobs or asking for like literally so people like public knowledge exactly.

So it's like, yeah, I can see why you would have an alias for delivery.

Yeah.

So I feel like it sucks because there it's like they're being put on public display for everybody else's judgment and we still haven't heard what their signed nothing, you know, and like, why are y'all putting all of this?

Why is the state or whoever is behind this investigation?

Why are y'all feeding all of this to the public.

Yeah, yeah, it's for them too, you know, they like uh the yeah, the police department.

They love press.

Let's way, don't get it off of me.

I'm just saying now.

In addition to that, of course, Karen, Yeah, and I know she did a sit down with Andy.

Yeah, you know, also talking about that.

But she's home the Grand Diamonds back, and I know you reached out to.

Her, right, I reached out to her or two and I haven't talked to her since, so yeah, I've just I don't know, I haven't seen her, haven't talked to her.

Really.

She reached out to me, but it wasn't like on a like let's get together type of deal.

It was like more like, hey, girl, who you use for your microblading?

That's a good question, because I was like, but else, that's good.

I was like, I don't know, I just it kind of like put me in a moment of just like I just need to take a step back.

That's what I've been doing lately, the opposite of what I would normally do.

So instead of me jumping the gun and trying to dissect with the situation, means I'm just gonna put you on pause and just step back because I don't want to put my own like feelings on something that maybe weren't your intention.

So when I see her, i'll see her, all right.

I want to do one of these heartworks from your buck.

It's not homework, but this is us, you know.

Just answer some a couple of questions, all right, because of course you know with your letters to yourself, there's also questions that you can ask yourself.

Okay, So I want to ask the ladies here what are you deeply afraid of?

And how have those fears affected your life and relationships with others?

Wow?

Wow?

Am I for you know?

I'm a daredev won't give a fuck.

I don't know how have those fears affected your life?

I remember when Gigi, you used to be like, I never want to get married.

That used to be definitely something, definitely something I used to say a lot.

Yeah, I'm open to it now.

You're open to it now.

But what do you think is something that you're afraid of?

And how has that affected your life and relationships with others?

I think that I'm afraid of.

People not seeing me for who I truly am because of the persona that I might put off with how I speak like here and know on pain conversations, and I'm just such like a wild car that I think that people might not take me as serious as I really am because they get that wild card affector from me.

But I'm very much serious about life.

I'm a grown as forty six year old woman.

I'm a mother, you know, and I do care.

I know I come off as just as easy, breezy, go with the flow, but I have a strong foundation and I really do care a lot about my friends and my family and just things that happen in life.

So I think I would say that that could be something that you have vulnerability.

Yeah, you don't want people to see that, and you know and you care, but maybe you don't let people know.

I don't let people know as much as I probably should.

I kind of maybe put a guard up in every in that case, you know, Yeah, what would you say, Jordie Joey.

Ones?

I think my first one is irrational, which is my greatest spirit, is my dad dying, which is inevitable.

But I just I'm scared for what that means for me.

I already lost my mom, I don't have any siblings, and so I just I don't know if anyone is ever gonna know me and accept me and love me fully than him.

So I think that's a fear.

And I think the other fear actually comes from reality TV, where you know, they don't tell you when you go into it what it's going to be like or how mentally it changes you.

And sometimes I feel like I.

Was almost like bullied out of my personality and so I'm still navigating that and I'm worried.

I'm like, did I really like kill myself off in that way?

I don't know.

I'm still figuring that out.

It does kind of it forces you to abandon yourself in some situations because you're having to like have your subconscious mind on display when normally you reserve your comments processing and then you'll come back it's like, no, we got to cut to the chase because you always.

Tell people think about I can't look like a punk too, like when.

This airs yea thought?

You know.

When you explain, right, there are certain things that aren't even happening.

You know what I'm saying.

I'm saying in confessionals, but it's it's on the overlay of something else, and I'm like, that's not even what I was talking about and then it makes you feel crazy because you're like, did I say that?

I don't remember saying that.

I don't know.

Hilarious, And you know, it's funny you say that about your dad because my family was over for the holidays and my dad is getting older, his knees is messed up.

He was walking so slow, you know up and I'm not used to that, you know, So that's a real thought, like jesh, that's you know, that's going to be a crazy thing.

And then I know you how close to you when your father are absolutely so I can't imagine that.

Man, I would say, for me, what's something that I'm scared of?

I think that a lot of times.

And I was thinking about this because I was looking at this article about Buddhism.

It's random, but anyway about not explaining yourself in situations, right, and so like I know in your book you talk a lot about like and you said it on the show that you know your circle is now dot people around you.

And there are so many people that say things, especially like when you have a public personality that's not true and it's like, are you going to defend yourself against everything?

But sometimes I also hate the fact that there's these narratives that you're not correcting, but then you just can't correct everything, everything, all the time.

It will drive you crazy.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm a firm believer now that when people hear story and they believe it and it's negative towards you, that's how they always felt about you.

They wanted to be They wanted to be true so bad.

And if they wanted to be true, I knew, stay over there, if that's what you want for me, stay over there, come over here, asking you, I'm gonna tell it.

I'm gonna tell my story once and I'm done.

Whereas back in the day, oh my god, Like I don't.

Even have time for that.

Now, I do want to ask this, what relationship do you and Candice have or any at all?

None at all, None at all, none at all.

Yeah, I just like I apologized five years ago at.

The reunion and it was genuine.

And it's funny because a clip of that popped up on my reel and I was watching myself from like, you know, like I hadn't seen it in so long, and it was it was like they wanted me to be crying.

They wanted me to be emotional, but I had already been all of that and they weren't there to see it.

But I was being very genuine about my apology.

But it was like because I wasn't crying and stuff, yeah, begging for forgiveness.

Nobody wanted to believe it.

But yeah, but I just looked at it as look, it is what it is.

It happened, I apologize for it.

I've moved on, and I hope that she has.

Everybody's in a different space now.

Yeah, I'm like, I don't wish any bad on anybody because I realized how energy works.

Now I'm like, I wish you all.

The all of that.

Man, it's interesting to see.

I cannot wait to finish watching this season because you know, unfortunately Chris is still a character on here.

They're calling him yesterday.

Yeah.

Now, let's let's ask ourselves a question.

Why is his name being mentioned so much?

So much?

And then what I didn't like, and this is only because I know this person, so it's like the whole I don't know what y'all talking about.

You know, exactly.

Yeah, And then what I didn't like is like I ain't cool with Cookie, but I was like, dang, he just threw cookie under the bus.

And she's been his biggest mouthpiece.

He completely threw it under the bus.

She was riding for him.

And then you say, you don't know what they're talking about.

So I'm just like, why would.

You do that to her?

They've been mentioning his name since episode one, wait.

Which is why they was probably so pressed for me to come back to seron.

What's up?

Bothered like, that's the situation and her damn did we even Okay?

I feel like she walked in, turned around and walked out.

Oh my gosh, that that that situation is just a mess.

And I you'll see you on the next episode.

I give I give Stacey some wise words and I can't wait.

Take he well, are you having fun?

I am?

Okay, Look yeah, I'm really enjoying my life right now.

Ok yeah, I can.

See it on you.

You look very happy, You're glowing.

You lost all his weight?

What did you do?

Did you change your diet?

Did you work out?

You know what's crazy?

This is my normal weight.

Okay.

And every time that I've been on in the past years, I was either just I just had a baby or I was pregnant.

So nobody actually really saw me, like because I've been once high school.

Like I just I can't gain weight to save my life unless I'm pregnant and I'm done having babies.

So now be back to do some squats or find a good man to give me some happy weight.

You plenty of people don't apply for that job.

Okay, all right, well listen, you definitely got to come back.

I will.

You know.

We had a great time, and I appreciate your openness and honesty and your positive vibes and energy.

Q.

I appreciate you having me here.

We'll be we'll be watching for you, girl.

And don't forget that book, Love Letters from Versions of Myself, a memoir of self discovery, transformation, and healing.

January fourth.

It's not we will remind you though, no.

Word and it actually goes on pre order December seventh.

Okay, so ordering pre order