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This is your ultimate guide to the AFL.

This is the Fox Footy Podcast.

A mighty roar was heard across the MCG on Saturday afternoon for Brisbane's second straight premiership.

Was mighty in every sense of the word.

The Lines now have a league record five premierships since two thousand and The scary thing is it doesn't feel like they're dropping out of contention anytime soon.

And now the silly season begins and it could be the silliest in seven years with an array of big names poised to move clubs across the next month, we'll have breakdowns of the Grand Final and trade period as well as all your favorite segments in the post Grand Final edition of the Fox Footy Podcast.

Ben Waterworth with you as is a flat Max Lawton.

Hello MAXI, So.

The second time I've had to do a podcast Postcats and Final loss.

I'm sure most people listening are thrilled because it did feel like the Neutrals were very much for the Lions at the spite of the Lines winning last year.

Yes, it's Are we going to get sick of them now?

They're still pretty likable Neil Fagan and Andrews a very likable core group up on the stage at the end.

So something needs to happen for like a heel turned to.

Oh steel chair sort of rip off the shirts Mark Gold he's a freemanal player Lucky New York.

Yes, that's Chris Fagan's music.

Also joining us frothing at the bit for this twenty twenty five trade period Jack Jobnoski, Hello Jack.

Yes, Hello Ben, Hello Max.

It's it's very good to be here for the back of a enjoyable Grand Final.

Enjoyable Yes, you were one of the usuals.

Yes, I was.

It was a it was a very good.

Game to watch as a neutral, especially in the first half.

Yeah, I think it was.

I think in terms of the neutrals, a lot of them are obviously Victorian fans of other Victorian clubs who would prefer to see Along lose and win given their successes of the last.

I don't know.

I don't think anyone was probe Along unless you were a Geelong fan, to be honest.

Yeah, well that's certainly how it certainly how it's seen that.

I think there are you know, maybe a few characters who don't quite help that sort of storyline.

Okay, yeh know, that's an interesting argument.

Ballely Smith did it a big weekend.

He did have a big weekend, he had had big numbers, but it just did not have much much impact on the game.

Well, we'll get to forgot your heads up, Jack, Do you want to get your Brisbane player ratings out?

In particular?

I think it's oh yes, who were doing ratings to compare notes, but just overall on the game twenty seventeen, Richmond kicked four goals to two after quarter time.

Twenty twenty one, the famous sixteen sixteen goals to one from halfway through quarter three to full time the Demons against the Dogs last year Brisbane fourteen goals to two after quarter time and then on Saturday eleven goals to two from halftime to late in the fourth quarter.

Brisbane led by as much as sixty four points.

So in a grand final, Max and congratulations to the lines.

But in a great final, it can get out of control real quick.

So the game went exactly as I tipped it, except for the team that won.

So I don't think I can probably count that, but tight until about halfway through the third and then blows out.

That's sort of the modern trend of Grand Finals, roughly Sydney Brisbane blew out earlier.

But it makes so much sense because you looked at you along in that fourth quarter.

There was one team playing at that point, and it was Brisbane going inside fifty repeatedly and kicking goals every time they went inside.

It was like it was pushing video game mode.

Like during certainly that fourth quarter at.

Time, someone got frustrated at the controller, went into the settings, changed it all the way down to beginner halfway through the third and then locking hil took over and all of that stuff worked out for them.

So it makes sense.

You go into party time mode, so the line's got to celebrate it.

That's good fun for them, but it means that you've got a margin forty seven points that was both completely unreflective of the majority of the game but also completely fair because Brisbane were the better team all day.

They should have been up at halftime.

It was tied for the first time since nineteen oh nine at the long break, but they were the better team.

They had it on their terms.

They were able to move the ball from their defense fifty far better than they were in the qualifying final, and they were doing it by kicking longer than usual.

That was their second highest rate of long kicks for the season, only below Round one again Sydney at the SCG, which is a unique ground in some ways.

So they played a different style.

And this is the thing I flagged also on the podcast last week that it can be a problem when you play a team three weeks later, is that Brisbane got to make the adjustments, didn't Geelong wanted to play the exact same game and it didn't work.

And then pretty been the same tags exactly.

Brisbane got to adjust their kicking style.

So that's a conscious thing, and then you have things that maybe you don't control, but just go your way.

They had much better pressure, They had much better stoppage game like a lot of their goals from stoppage came in the fourth quarter as well, but they were still dominating from that source for most of the game.

So they this is what happens.

You do all the previews, we do, all the predictions, and then Brisbane just plays really well and Geelong doesn't, and then therefore a fly decided.

You were bullish on the lines heading into the game, though, Jack, Yeah, I was.

Well, the thing I've been really stark about the way that the game ballooned out was that Geelong isn't a team I've ever identified as you know, a team that would sort of I guess fold in a way that they did late in that game.

You think of the Sydney of last year, who maybe would have had those mental demons from twenty twenty two, and you could do to expect why they would fold the way they did.

But Geelong is not a team that you ever associate with that sort of fall off.

So that was quite stark.

Yeah, I was big on the lines.

I think that what they can do and what they have done from half back with the players that they have coming out of defense, is a massive driver for what they are able to do offensively.

And obviously Geelong in that first matchup in the qualifier, we're able to limit those shorter kicks that you know, mcluggages and Zorko's love to hit, and it was more sort of really driving forward and winning aerially, which is something I did really well in the back half as well with Harris Anders and Jasper Fletcher.

Harry's Andrews that arguably should have won the norm Smith.

I think it was a very very close race.

You could have probably given votes to five or six guys, and I think they did.

Lockie Neil arguably could have gotten the photos.

Yes, one of the best sub performances you'll ever say, particularly given the context.

But no, and Andrews would have gotten my three.

The only you mentioned Gelong fading out like that, The only game I can compare it to was the twenty one prelim against Melbourne when they end up losing eighty three points.

Yes, that was the game.

The game of course, where they had a spa and all got the flu a few.

Days before record whatever ex space came out.

So that's the only time I've seen a Gelong team play like that.

So I don't know how much you can take from it instructionally.

Like I put out a poll on my Twitter page, is forty seven points?

Does that equal a soul destroying loss that ruins your next season?

Like we talked about Sydney for six months about them having nightmares?

Are we going to talk about Gelong the same way?

It doesn't quite feel like it.

Maybe that's just more faith in them knowing better.

I think you're right though that the forty seven In one way, the forty seven point margin didn't truly reflect the nature of the game early, but ultimately the way when we've talked about how it felt like Geelong almost rolled over in that second half, sixty four points might have been more a true reflection of that, considering how well Brisbane played and how ineppt Geelong was in the back half there.

So maybe forty seven points is somewhere in the middle.

Does it?

Is it sol destroying for next season?

I don't necessarily think so.

Like the Geelong sides who have gone close, and they've gone close a lot in the past, that there's always been is this the end of have they hit the cliff?

Is this?

Are they at the edge of the cliff?

Now?

Geelong's so shrewdly in the past few years, they've flipped over their lists and there's so many young, exciting players on that list now that will learn from Saturday's experience that neither Brisbane or Geelong.

I don't think you're going anywhere anytime.

So eleven different players from the twenty two grounds, that's the same, I believe, so that's crazy to give them like that was an old team.

Obviously you needed some regeneration, but it didn't feel quite like that necessarily.

But it's quite a stark change.

Yeah, it is just from a the argument around what would you described as a dynasty team?

Do you need to win three in a short period of time.

So, for instance, I would say the Geelong seven to twenty eleven teams a dynasty.

They won three and five years clearly, Hawthorne is clearly, Richmond is Brisbane early two thousands, Brisbane early two thousands.

I think three and five is the minimum bar three and six, and if you made like one or two more Grand Finals you could make a case.

But a majority of them over half a decade has to be there.

And therefore Brisbane was one very very close game against Collingwood away from a three piece.

Should we be more sorry, man, we should we be more lenient in the dynasty discussion?

Now considering the eighteen team here, I understand Richmond and Hawthorne did it in the eighteen team era, but now Gold Coast and Giants are more established, it should be more lenient because they have had seven consecutive finals appearances, they've made three straight Grand finals and potentially could have won that Grand Final against Colling, which would be more lean When looking at this team, it's a potential dynasty team.

No, they are definitely a potential one.

If they win it next year they are, or if they win it the year after that, and they are every tense of doing so because they look like they've got a bunch of kids under twenty three, a lot of them sons of X players as it turns out, our academy prospects, who are quite damn good and are going to keep them up there for a while.

So every reason they can, but not yet, because they've had an incredible, sustained run of success, which is remarkable in context of the previous decade.

They were the losingest.

Team of the twenty tens, but they are now an incredible force.

And it was I.

Thought it was interesting to see a day where Chris Fagan completely out coached Chris Scott.

It was the best coach of the AFL.

Chris Scott, selection decisions on the day, tactical stuff all outclassed by Fagan, who is not really regarded.

His strength is not the tactical side of things.

But you make the gamble on Locky Neil now either pays off or it doesn't.

He looks like an idiot, or he doesn't.

And that's what he said in the press conference.

It worked out for them.

You have another big Geelong final where the ruck selection is a problem, Reeve Stanley coming in doing nothing and the midfield mix not working with him in there.

Like the fact that you sub him out rather than the guy with a broken arm in Jeremy Cameron, say's a lot.

That was pretty damning Jack when that happened.

We saw the Jeremy Cameron incident and I was listening to the Fox commentary at the time and Gary Lyne said this could be a turning point in this game for how inspirational that act was.

The problem is that Jeremy tackled with the good hand but landed again on the bad hand and then had to go off for seventeen minutes and from then on it was all Brisbane.

And Yeah, the fact that ree Stanley got subbed oubt was pretty damning on his behalf.

Yeah.

I think it's interesting though, because he had played fifteen games in the senior team this year and no one linkedn night because Geelong winning games right, So then he comes back in he's recovered from his hamstring injury and he gets picked and you know he's played all these games this season, so to blitzers to coning thing had worked well in previous weeks running up to it.

How much of a differen would that have made then if Stanley, if it was maybe Jed Bue's who came in and not Stanley, Like, how much does that impact to what they what Geelong would then do defensively in terms of Blixars and his versatility.

Fatally understand the point, but you can blame the choice to play an extra ruckman when you were beaten in the midfield against the team you've beaten the midfield three weeks ago.

And the half forwards who Jedbue's is not the Jed Buws of a few years ago but would have assisted in covering were many of the reasons Brisbane won the game.

So they tried to make a strength biggest strength and to become a weakness.

So clearly that plays a part in it.

It's not necessarily his fault, but his structural input was negative, so you have to criticize that.

And a couple of times, yeah, you do wander.

If jed Bu's being there might have just showed them up a little bit defensively.

But a couple of times Brisbane got goals out the back and I thought if tom' stewit were there with that goal of gone down.

Now that's not the reason why Geelong lost the game purely because of the absence of one player, but I do think he would have settled them down defensively a little bit better.

They look They looked young in defense on the weekend, and.

I mean the really as much as the locking eel inspirational goal sort of cell would like moment at the same end of the ground in the third quarter felt like a turning point.

Then it was when Geelong got a goal back early in the fourth They were down by twenty one and then they have the bad turnover right in front of goal.

Was it rain and kicks?

That goal I would say gets Brisbane up by twenty seven.

At that point it was over over.

So that was the youth in an experience showing at a really important time.

That was the iconic moment of the Grand Final the year before.

I think the Joe Danaher goal, Yes, Jordan de Goie goal a couple of years before that.

Then the Joe side Bottom or side bottom Joel Selwin in twenty twenty two, so we always seem to get that iconic goal.

Melbourn had a lot of them in twenty twenty one.

What were some of the Jack did the player ratings for Brisbane?

I did the player ratings for Geelong.

We do player ratings for every final, but it does feel like the interest in player ratings goes up significantly for a Grand Final four.

It is it is the most watch game of the season.

The scrutiny is higher and more intense than ever.

What was some of the tougher player ratings or key player ratings that you had to give out from a line's perspective.

Well, the Andrews one, I think is tough because we don't tend to celebrate key defenders as much as we should in terms of who we consider best on ground.

Yeah, Harris Andrews.

I gave him eight.

I think he could argue he was maybe a nine.

But I also thought a big part of why Brisbane stood up was because of Darcy Gardner, who he's not really with respective I'm not considered a premier key defender, but he was like one of those impenetrable walls back there on the day, and I thought he was an eight as well, so that's sort of offset Andrews.

I also thought it was hard to make calls on like someone like McCluggage who did a lot of damage of late when maybe the game was beyond doubt.

The result was beyond doubt.

It was held well early, but he also had his moments, I thought, and so guys like him and then Zach Bailey, who initially it was sort of like, well, could this guy have potentially cost them the ground file in terms of how many times he missed hit three six in the end, and again he kicked those three goals, maybe two of them were again when the result was beyond doubt, So you've got to it was hard to sort of measure I guess when some of these acts took place when the game was in dispute, and I thought, yeah, like, that's why Neil I gave him eight, because he came on and in that third quarter just really blitzed along in the guts.

And one of the things he spoke about post game was that while he was nervous about coming on and that risk of re injury.

It was also he's going to come on when the players are you know, they played a half of footy, right, so they're going to be fatigued to some degree.

And he really took a serious advantage of that.

And probably the other one was was Ashcroft.

I like, yep, will Astrofs.

I gave him a NINEV was he was a seven?

Yeah again I thought he was.

He was okay early, but he really built into the game.

So it was those who are a few of the tough ones.

Dan Zorca as well was really influential.

Just on Zach Bailey.

First player since Stephen Kernahan in nineteen ninety three with nine or more scores.

Yes, fine, yes, that's that's quite some effort and that's and that's Stephen Kernahan is a permanent forward and Zach Bailey's a he kicks out forward midfielder.

He would have been best on ground.

I think he had he kicked it.

Oh it's early, yeah, I think so.

I gave Bailey Smith a five.

He had twenty nine disposals, really polarizing game.

He was busy and he tried, he was trying really hard for him a lot, but at no stage did you see him trademark Smith where he was, where he was running and carrying.

He still had three hundred ish meters game, but he didn't have the same burst.

He wasn't out in space where he's doing his damage.

So it was a twenty nine disposal game, but a five out of ten twenty nine disposal game.

Max Holmes was eight.

In hindsight, that's probably a touch high.

Again, like Smith, probably didn't have that open space.

But at the same time, he still had niner and seven meters gained and thirty three touches plus a goal that him or maybe Jack Bow's who was Gelong's best e bose six and that might have been unders Oli Dempse eyed at seven.

He felt the most dangerous.

Yeah, he never didn't really get enough.

Both were we actually put the danger on the scoreboard, but felt it.

That's right.

Yeah, And he kicked and he kicked four goals and three of them came in junk time in the last quarter.

I found Laws and Humphreys the probably hardest cat to assess because he was excellent offensively like and some of these one on one efforts were awesome during during the game, but he also played on Charlie Cameron who essentially broke the game open and took it away from Geelong and that in that third quarter, which is you had to have place a lot of emphasis on that.

So I gave him six, as did tom Akins.

He mentioned stoppages just beforehand.

This was a massive stoppage game.

There's so many clearances in this game.

So I think that's why tom Akins's numbers might be slightly inflated.

But I do think that he played on did play on Lashcroft for a fee bit of it, and Nashcroft won the Norm Smith Medal and offensively Brisbane at the midfield were a lot better.

Another number that points to the midfield dominance of the Lions.

All the problems of the Cats from Andrew wheel And on Twitter, which was it was Geelong's worst game since twenty twenty one.

Worst first possession to clearance conversion rate, right, so they got hands on the ball.

It was only a clearance fifty six percent of the time.

It's the twelfth worst for all teams over the last five seas.

Wow, which is so And you go back and watch Couch last week and they pointed out how good Geelong's percentage of first possession the clearance was yes exactly, which is you know, credit to Brisbane as well the pressure they applied there and there was no I had no quumbs.

Just just pointing out this player rating.

Quite remarkable that Patrick Dangerfield literally played a ten out of ten game against Hawthorne then plays a two out of ten game.

Him and Jeremycameron effectively.

Jeremy Cameron's only one good act for the day was when he had one arm.

Which year I gave him before four out of ten.

Basically for that I have inspirational completely blanketed and then him not doing anything meant that Shannon Neil was even more important.

But that's why I thought Harris Andrews.

Was so good, because Neil was completely blanketed all day.

So Geelong's Grand Finals after tell forwards no like you have the Joe Danna her moment last year.

But it's a game for small forwards at this point, and I think a lot of people were tipping Nonsmith based on that.

A lot of Gelong half forward selections manor.

Grime mis as mine.

They were their sort of sexy dark horse tips.

But then they got shut down by Brisbane's half backs who did an incredibly good job all day, offensively and defensively.

So as I mentioned there, jj off the top, these two teams, you feel like they're not getting out of premiership contention anytime soon.

One because they're young, and two because of who they might bring in during the upcoming off season.

So from a Brisbane perspective, we know that Sam Draper and Oscar Allen are keen to we'll not only leave their own clubs but join the Lions.

We've known about that for several weeks now, and they're going to get Dan Annibal as well on through the draft.

Their their top academy prospect.

So they're not going away anytime soon.

No, No, certainly not.

And it's a scary proposition for the rest of the league obviously that they may lose you know, Stacevich or Archie to Rable Cops, but I think the talent coming in outweighs that, and obviously Animal is just another way that they're going to benefit from the you know, the academy father son sort of route which which they've been Like we've seen the development of Jasper Fletcher of and more this year.

I think he's just.

Like a like a superb big on him on that Saturday.

Yeah, I was.

I think he was another one who I guess if he looked at it more from a defensive intercept counter punch perspective, was in amongst the best on ground sort of conversation does it went back there as well?

So like they've got serious names, I think they've got a genuine chance to to really catapult Brisbane into a dynasty team because I'm of the belief that they've got to win three Premierships for it to be considered a dynasty.

I think the fact that they've been in the finals for seventh straight is great and it's a great measure of how they've built under Fagan, But I think to be considered a dynasty, you've got to win at least three, and there's zero reason why they don't go into next season favorites for that third.

It's interesting when you talk about this Lion's era, so it's almost almost two eras it's the first one which they built through the draft and academy guys like Harris Andrews and the like, and then it's been the father son editions.

And it's not a criticism to point out that they are the team that is best exploited both ways of exploiting AFL list rules father Sons and Academy players.

The fact that they get both and have this incredible crop father Sons, it's something that no other team has really had.

I mean Collingwood Sydney has to a certain extent, Nick Blake.

Lesser, but lesser, and then Collingwood gets Decos but both of them both very good.

But then Nnga Wise Quayner.

But that's sort of about it.

So good on one side, not elite on both sides.

They've got superstars from both avenues.

Dual Nornsith Medal is at twenty one one of them.

It's crazy.

So that's why they're going to be able to stay up and continue what's already been an incredibly good period for them.

And from a geelong perspective, they are in that supposedly in the hunt for Charlie Colonel.

We'll talk a little bit more about Colonel a bit later, but link to rowand Marshall, who's got one year left to a sin Kilda deal.

MAXI Marshall probably not too keen.

It sounds like to play with Tom Dakoney in the same side.

Despite the success that he had with Paddy Ryder several years ago.

Marshall, now closer to thirty, probably wants to be that the number one ruck did.

What happened on Saturday pull you more in the direction that Geelong really needs rolland Marshall right now to an extent.

But they've been very, very good for a while without a dominant ruckman.

So it's I am growing more and more to the belief that it is a poor allocation of resources to spend above average on a ruckman.

It can work, It worked with Max Gorn, but Brisbane's Britain Sam Draper, which is bizarre because Darcy Fort is a dual premiership ruckman for them.

It is nuts to think about it.

And then then you're paying Sam Draper, who is also injury prone in the same way that you feared Fort and Oskar Mackinnernie have bit.

So that's risky and the only risk for Brisbane going forward.

The only reason they would come back down is teams both bidding huge amounts for their star players and luring them out like Zach Bailey or forcing Brisbane to pay overs, or they're making mistakes like paying a lot for a ruckman.

So either way it's risky.

I can understand it from Gelong's perspective because Marshall, I don't think he's going to completely break their cap and they're in a reasonably good spot, yeah enough to fit him, but they're not getting him and Kerno And as you said, we'll discuss that later on because it's a good one.

It is a weird one.

Would James Warp will help Geelong's midfield in any way or is this just a squad depth kind of play.

He seems like a potentially like a it's hard for me to say dangerfield type, but he's sort of got that bit of a poor man yeah, to be like a bit of a breakaway, explosive sort of guy in the midfield.

And I think that's more of like a future play once Danger is gone.

Think he's that He's he's probably the yin to the yang of you know, your Holmes and Smith in terms of, yeah, you have the outsider run.

So Geelong fixed what was previously seen as a weakness in terms of their speed in the engine room with Max, with Max Holmes and with Balie Smith.

But you still don't need that sort of second big body to I guess maybe helping Atkins and and to I guess tied through and be some depth.

I guess once once Dangew's not longer in that because we saw once the finals began that he got thrust straight back in there and his importance in the midfield was so crucial.

So I think that would be a helpful vision for them and Kerno.

I think that's obviously gonna be the big one.

I think that's also a future play post post Cameron as he as he wipes down.

I think if Warpole was at the Catch this year, he would have played over Dye Clark.

Yes, in the grad vial.

Yes, So it's an upgrade.

It's an upgrade for the for the now and for the future.

So like that's an understandable.

Sign it's now time for this and now.

On the Fox Footy Podcast, another strong edition of Australia's favorite segment, Fair or Fast.

Yes, a player movement theme Fear or Fast.

It's finally time to talk about trade guys for the first time in eleven months.

Yes, Max, the pendulum has swung in the zach Merritt situation Fair or Fast?

Well, by definition, don't pendulums continue to swing the point of.

It's evenly so constantly swung back here to towards him staying at Essendon.

Staying in okay Ah, I think I don't feel any different than I did about it a week ago.

To be honest, I think I'm going to say fast.

I understand that Andrew Welsh comes out in his first real media appearance after becoming a Essennon president, which that geez, that happened quickly he did with Dave Barram stepping down, but he's sort of just stepping down to make sure that his guy is in charge instead of getting overthrown.

He comes out and says, no, we're not trading him.

He's going to be at the club next year.

But that's the same thing Essendon has been saying for weeks, so that I don't really put a huge amount into that.

I think if he's going to really force his way out and fall Thorne comes to the table with a good enough offer, I think they'll end up having to take it.

So I would lean him leaving.

But it is still a very hard one, not the hardest one on the board, but one of the harder ones to get done.

What do you think is the hardest to get done?

Clono to Geelong specifically, which seems like the number one option for both Colono and now for Geelong.

You had Andrew Mackie coming on Sunday and actually saying, yeah, well, you know, it's on Carlton to figure out what the price is going to be and whether they're willing to do it.

So that's really hard.

So on that note, then Jack Sydney looks like Charlie Curno's best chance of leaving Carlton fair or fas.

Yeah, I think that's fair.

I think if Sidney or As it seems they might be willing to offer two first round picks and maybe a Will Hayward type, that's probably That looks like the likeliest way that he gets out of Carlton, and it seems like he's dead set on getting out of Carlton.

Then we see Bailey Smith on Instagram teasing you know still that it sounds like Curno is very much in play for Gelong.

It's and I you know, someone like Andrew Mackie and Stephen Wells like they're the last people I doubt to still manage to get a deal done for Curno.

But that does look like the harder of the two options.

It's it's a matter of how desperately Curno wants to get to Sydney or whether he's happy to sort of stay in the Victoria sort of sphere, but often the side sort of how Bailey has in moving across a geelong dangerfield too.

Yeah, it's interesting, I think, but Sydney would be I guess number one in terms of the ease with which it gets done.

If Carlton are satisfied by you know, the two firsts and a Hayward type, do you.

Think that's fair for Carlton.

I wouldn't be thrilled to accept that.

Of val was Carlton, I would.

Be pushing for more than Hayward.

I'm not like the Biggs rap on Hayward.

I think is maybe that a a favorable pick swap or something gets you close, like a player like Oli Floren's got named as well, and they discussion.

I think that's even harsh to be to say less appealing.

But I think they're in the same level in terms of players who don't really move the needle.

Hayward moves more than I think so.

But then again, a lot of what Voss has said this year is that Carten needs speed and position coming out of the back half.

The name I think of immediately when I hear that, when I hear those sorts of traits are blaky and obviously it's going to be near impossible to try and pray him out as part of that kind of trade.

But that's the kind of name I'd be looking for.

Riley Bissle.

It could start of the year, yeah, dropped off.

Maybe if Carvin's recruiters stopped watching games at about round eleven, maybe they'll accept that one.

Maybe Max in order into sin Kilda's salary cap is much needed.

Faver or fast they are, I can't believe that.

You know, they're major sponsors.

What's the bloody safety brand they're sponsored by.

They're clearly clearly you know, all of those high viz vests that I see some Kilda players wearing, it's very clear that they are paying them under the no they're not.

Yeah, it's it's crazy that they're now suddenly offering what Sam Flanders four point five million yeap over five years.

That was probably we, I think in general, when we heard that they'd re signed NAS for two million, Tom Daconing for what Ralphie report on the weekend one point six y five million per season, also getting in Jack Sylvanney.

But I think when we heard the Sam Flanders dollars that were banned around on Grand Final eve, of course, of course that's the that's always today when these kinds of numbers come out.

Yeah, I think there was probably probably caught the AFL community off guard, thinking how the heck are they doing this?

Look, I'm sure they have not paid a huge amount, they have not paid the full cap.

I don't know exactly how the cap rules work.

I don't think you can bank that much space that you can suddenly bring in like four players on a well above average wage.

But all this time we've been talking about Saint Kilda not being able to hand a big fish.

So who were they really paying like a massive bucks to prize.

But there's a salary floor as well, Right, you've got to be paying a minimum amount, so they can't have that much space to add what four million dollars worth of players next year.

There was no world in which their cap was that open.

You would think, hey, maybe it was, and they would know their numbers better than I would, But it seems preposterous to think that you would suddenly have that much space available.

Maybe it is, Maybe.

That's exactly what they've worked out in their geniuses.

Would you be paying nine hundred thousand dollars a year for Sam Flanners there?

Jack, It's probably not just.

But at the same time, I don't think he's been played in his best role.

No.

At Gold Coast.

I think there was a period there a year or two ago where he'd sort of found a really good role and as Stuart jew yes, yes he's playing off half back and he was playing in the midfielder.

I don't think he's a I don't think he's a half forward player.

I think he's a distributor.

He's probably more of an outside type than inside.

But if you get him around the ball and in a spotwreck can slingshot, I think that's probably his best role.

And if they can get him playing that sort of footy, then he could live up to that sort of price tag.

Well, clearly this is how secutors getting their money.

If media reporting Sekulta has signed Fiji as a partner for the next three years in a landmark deal, no plan to play games there, which is.

Disappointed that would hold off games before the Saints a good junket.

If they're going to start selling games to Fiji, I would be volunteering.

It's only five hours from lovely Water.

No, I was thinking that.

Well, I think the island right, like just the government.

I just think of that, Yeah.

Which is from Fiji?

You are correct?

Or I've drank water and Fiji before.

I have no memories of it.

It was probably probably hydrated me though.

That's hopefully Jack Judd McPhee Judd mcveee would be a bigger loss to Melbourne than Christian Petrarca fair or fast.

That's a that's a good one.

It's the tracker, by the way, has flown into Adelaide to that.

Has he really has been seen the Adelaide TV networks have a field day.

Josh Money at the that airport where all I can see is Jack Gunvan walking past that hoarding.

Now it's got Petruca.

It's actually a really bad airport to sneak into because you have to every gate at Adelaide Airport you have to go up the ramp, the long ramp, so it's always a long walkers up the gate point of the return sort of yep, has did and then yes, as we know with the Jack Guinarvan doorstop there, it is a very wide open area just outside the terminal there because with the subway the cars are a long way away from the front of the terminal there, there's a lot of open space to get seen.

So he hasn't played cards right here, Christian.

But in positive news that airport is connected via public transport to the city, imagine that.

Yes, anyway, digress, jud McVeigh would be a bigger loss for Melbourne than Christian Petrarca.

I still think it's a face, but I think it's it's closer than we probably would like to think.

Yeah, I think Christian would be highly motivated to play his best footy in an environment where he feels like there's a more cohesion and better chance of success.

And I think there's every chance that that's at Adelaide.

But yeah, so I still think what he can do, what is capable of doing at his best is is still more valuable than what mcvee can provide.

But in saying that, mcvee has really sort of under the radar, been a really handy player in the back half for Melbourne when he's been healthy, and I think this has the potential to be for Freemantle, the bear the fruits in the same sort of way that they have with Jordan Clark, who's risen to all austrailing levels.

Not the same sort of players speed wise, but sort of one of those mid size interceptors, sort of like you think of Jasper Fletcher.

That's sort of rangey athleticism.

So I really like it for Fremantle, but I still think Christian is the better player.

The loss of McVeigh for Melbourne is the type of loss that makes a club's list slowly bleed out right because it's the young player coming into their prime.

You trade him for what a high second round pick late first.

If you miss on that pick, that's just a big step backwards, and maybe not a huge step backwards, but enough.

And then if they.

Accumulate and accumulate, you lose all your young depth, and then you've lost a core that can bring you back to contention.

Will Forcus from our Fox Sports website has been big on and leading the Christian Petrarca to Adelaide links first to report that last week it feels like if he's landing in Adelaide, it feels like it's that's gaining some momentum.

His report suggested that Petraka was willing to discuss the.

Idea and warm into it.

Yeah, flying to Adelaide suggests you're more than warming.

Pretty hot mastics.

The AFL has finally struck a nice balance with its bidding system changes fair or fast.

Fair, contingent on exact what they end up being.

From what I've seen, I like them.

So it's weird that, first of all, it's with that they're changing them again when we haven't even had the rule changes that they've already implemented used once.

Because they've got a different bidding system with the points table this year, which seems to be a bit more fair.

But it sounds like from what they've reported and various outlets, that you can only match a bid using two picks from next year presumably, And I think looking at the numbers, that would mean to match a bid at pick one you would need something like five and eleven, which is going to be very very hard to get if you're, for example, Carlton next year trying to match a bid for Cody Walker.

Yes, a pick one contender, maybe one who's based.

On ground in the under seventeen Futures game on Grand Fom Dames for Team Boke or for can't remember to be honest, but I know we had twenty seven and a lot of clearances.

Marlon Neo Cleus Neocles, Yeah, great name.

Dukie Cochran is also very good.

Neo was there?

Yes, spending time I'll played in under seventeen's football exciting, Well.

Max, isn't it all we want?

We want clubs to be using the best picks to.

Paying full price.

We do.

And when if your Carlton next year, I think there's a good chance one of their picks naturally is either five or eleven, probably close to eleven, but it could be five.

But that means they've got to trade something of real value to get a top ten pick to match that bid.

So that's exactly what you want.

And I think the drop down to pick two would be closer to like you need eight and twelve.

Yep, maybe that sounds about right.

And I like that pick one is particularly hard to matt a bid on because that's the one you look at the just how it looks optically, and getting pick one when you were not when you were a premiership contender is unfair.

So if it's much harder to do that another Jamara type situation.

Is this the thing?

So we haven't seen a player attract a bid at pick one since Jamara, so there's a will Ashkoff did was probably the best player in his draft class, but the Giant said, no, we've traded up to pick one Aaron Cadman, you are our guy, and they picked Aaron Cadman and Ashkroff got a bid at pick two.

So this is Whereos and Dake well somehow Dakos went to pick Sam Sandarsi is obviously a young star, but Sam Darsi got a bid before Nick Daekos Darcy at two, Dekos at four.

So the clubs have used the pick one as a bit of a statement you're our guy in the past with the changes in the bidding system, and maybe because the maybe because the bidding system hasn't allowed itself in the past for clubs to truly pay value, so clubs sort of don't really care.

In the past if you were making Collingwood match the bid on Dacos or Brisbane on Ashcroft, I think they matched it with like five picks in the thirties FORTI.

It's been I think you might have done the tweet on what Brisbane used to match the will Ashkroff bid, and that's been quote retweeted a lot in recent times.

It's absurd and so it was almost pointless to do it at the time.

But the problem with the system at its core is that you're forcing one club to act on the behalf of all seventeen who are not getting the player, and they are not necessarily incentivized to do that when they have their own reasons for picking player, giving them the Pick one honor, giving them the bonus you get like ten grand, twenty grand from NAB.

They want to say, so there are reasons to pick your player, and just hey, we're confident in you, we want to believe in you.

So it will negate that somewhat.

And also if the AFL could actually make clubs just stop.

I don't know if they're shaking hands on the tables or what.

But you've had some weird bids in the past.

There has been some, Yeah, it has been some weird bids that have come in interesting times in the draft.

And Jack just a slightly Richmond slanted question for Richmond fans out there after last year's Megal Hall.

The Tigers now have the flexibility to target needs at the top end of this year's draft rather than best available, fair or fast.

No, I would say I would say fast.

I think they're still in a spot where you need to take the very best players that are there, especially with two picks that are going to be inside of the top four.

I think the whole of it Richmond got last November is going to be is going to to be very, very good.

But I don't think you can sit back just after that and be like, oh, now we can start, you know, pinpointing defenders or or whatever else, like outside midfielders.

You know.

I still think they've got to go and target the very best players available.

Is this a draft where you would be able to target positional needs you have to reach?

Not really like so for instance, Richmond has picked, we'll probably have pick three, So three and three and four, three and four after with Oscar Allen, we're assuming getting picked two Compo back for West Coast.

The problem is that the top six of the top six players in the draft rank and I'm pretty certain that most clubs have a top six and there's a maybe a bit of a gap after that.

Four of them are already club tied.

Dan Annible at Brisbane, two sons Ezekiullin and Dylan Patterson.

And there's I think a school thought now that Harry Dean, the Carlton father son, he's in that top six bracket now.

He's the best defender of them, He's the best key defender in there.

There's a guy called Sullivan Roby who is I think the biggest draft bolt since Clayton Oliver.

Oliver went up all out to three or four I think over ten years ago.

Now.

He's come from the clouds for the Eastern Range, has played an incredible Grand Final for you years ago, sorry a couple of weeks ago.

Rather so there is he could be maybe pushing that top six now.

But there's a chance that Richmond if that is the case, and it never really pans out where ranking is equal what happens on draft night.

But Richmond is not getting pick seven.

So what yes, what you're saying is despite having as it stands, picks two and three, they would miss out on the top six players who are the clear top.

Six well, and as it stands it depends they might have control.

Back to that discussion around making statements with the picks that you have not bidding right, So West Coast will likely have picked one and two.

Some some would say that zeke Yulin might be the be the best player in it.

Some clubs would have them at the top of their draft board.

But it's hard to see West Coast saying to Kooper, duff Tyler or William Durzman.

I think dur moves probably regarded the number one play on the rankings at the moment.

Some would say duff Tyler as well, but I think I think.

Has had a more consistency.

The rock forward.

Yeah, whose two dred centimate is really good size, But yeah, it's hard to see them saying to those guys, and we're going to be bidding on zeke Ulan.

So those two are the best two that aren't in the natural draft, Yeah, the best every chance.

The West Coast.

West Coast takes both those two players and Richmond.

Just well yeah, or do West Coast bid on someone to themselves.

Which again is the problem with the system, whether you are relying on West Coast to do something that doesn't really benefit them.

At all, which is what North Melbourne did a few years ago.

Did they I think they took Colby mckircher at pick two, sounds right on, Jed Walter pick three, then took Zaye dursm a pick four.

Yes, so they could take West Coast could take who they want a crown as a number one, pick the number one, and then at number two they could maybe throw a couple of bits out there.

Yeah, potentially, Yeah, they did so went a couple of years ago.

Harley read Cobby mccircher, Jed Walter, Zay durs So they could do.

But the Tigers could do something like that if they want to.

That'll be fair because then you get the honor of pick one, all the all the benefits, all the reasons you need to pick a pick one and then go from there.

So that'd be interesting.

We've actually got a West Coast related question in the mail bag.

Mailbag only question for the mail Bag this week, just a brief whateveryone.

Still it's Mad Monday for the listeners as well.

Yes, as we know, and Don asks should the West Coast Eagles change their deal offered to Brandon Stasvich or scrap it all together?

I did think about asking this as an ancillary question as part of the top of the segment when you mentioned Brandon Starsavich, But it was hard as unfortunate as was it was hard not to have that in your head when you saw Brandon Stasovich on the bench during that third quarter.

West Coast offering him six years, we believe, which is a lot for a guy who was already a concussion away from being in big trouble.

And he had that concussion on the weekend whether and it's intangible how that is measured in the end and the effect that it has on him, But it was hard not to think of that when he was on the bench.

JJ he has the option of staying at Brisbane on a shorter term deal, but West Coast's offer back to his homestate of wa is clearly more appealing.

I think West Coast have seriously considered that offer, yeah, like seriously considerate.

And but in another way, it's like West Coast could have could have still offered that deal knowing that he was one concussion away, because.

They have changed the rules around payouts, so they would it tapers off after a couple of years, but they wouldn't lose all of that money if he had to medically retire next year.

For example, yeah, right, but they'd still be losing a decent amount of money if say he signed and then he gets concussed again at some stage next year and he's forced to medically retire.

An issue they know well that have multiple players, Yes, medically retired.

Yes, So it's a serious like I think most people would have thought the same thing when he when that did happen, and I think they would, like six years already before that concussion seemed like a pretty almost audacious sort of deal for someone with a history that you probably can't really bank on, especially with concussion.

Now that's the tax of West Coast being bad for almost half a decade, Now, is it not that you've got to pay that, You've got to offer that security to get guys out of the dual premiership team.

And the other part of it is sounds like West Coast have already been denied their request of potentially landing Start Savage to not dilute.

The free agency compo for Elf Scrawlen.

Right, So if they if assuming that's not getting over the line, then that might also factor into their considerations in offering such a deal that's going to dilute their their compound.

Then you might get a player who may only playing not even a third of that deal.

So that whole system also confuses me because I saw that report and then someone suggesting, oh, well, instead they'll try and trade for him.

Why would they be able to trade for him if he's a free agent.

I don't understand how that would even be an option.

It's an odd one.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the report, or.

Well, yeah, because they're already because they're.

Getting so that that can match, So then that would force a trade situation.

So like just basically what happened with Jeremy Cameron, I think did the Giants officially match or at least threatened the Giants are?

Well, yeah, either, but Jeremy Cameron was ultimately traded as a free agent.

Yeah, I need to read the rules.

But whish these rules, these rules were more obviously, I don't think it seems weird that someone could be literally a free agent and yet you can trade them without having signed them.

Yeah, that's that's what can happen though, and that would by trading them that would avoid the dilution of the free agent.

So theoretically West Coast would trade.

Like the third round pick.

Yes, Brisbane, Yeah, isn't that a win win for both parties.

I mean, it's a pick that West Coast doesn't get to use, and and but they get the better pick.

So yes, it would it would end up being a win in a shallow draft.

I think it's a massive win that West Coast would have to give give up a later pick.

Brisbane might be able to use a one of those later picks to help them with a Dan Animal bid potentially.

So this is the thing, right, So we're talking about West Coast having picks one and two.

If if they signed Sassovich, their compo is going to be diluted.

Are they still going to get picked if.

He signs as a free agent, it would be diluted.

So they would not get picked too if they signed him as a free agent.

That's like, so.

That's an incredibly drastic swing for a club like West Coast who needs the first two picks.

Yeah, it's I think that's actually a low like a low key big storyline.

I think because if you're Coast and now, especially given its star, to choose a player and you're hoping to bank on him as a long term player, but again he's he's had a concussion issue, so I mean.

You added to the risk profile, don't you You added to the pinch.

Surely the Eagles would be then trying to think of a way that can do a trade deal.

Yeah, they wouldn't.

As Benzai, I think it would favor the lines in the end, So that makes sense to be honest.

There is a chance that starts of it suffering that concussion helps Brisbane because it makes him more likely to stay because West Coast are the reason.

Willing to offer that.

And if their offer is not six years and it's say four, and the gap is not so big, maybe he just goes, well, I'll stay and try and win another flag, and then he's a pretty damn key defender for them.

Very important.

I think he said it well.

I think it's a low key, big storyline as well.

One that not many would really care keeps about unless you're a fan of other team.

But the intricacies of the trade people, I.

Think it's very it's very it's a very curious one.

That is the end of fear of Face and the mail bag.

Just maybe one before we wrap up which team, because the frenzy period opens on Friday and trade period next Monday, and we'll be doing a couple of trade shows during the trade period here on the Fox Free Podcast.

Which team needs to win the trade period or needs to try and desperately needs to come out of trade period as a winner rather than a loser.

You know, Richmond's I think, is going to be a team that is not going to have much say in the trade period at all.

Seems like they're going to be very very quiet.

Is sin Kilda that that team?

Well, they have put the urgency upon themselves with their plan, which we like.

We likely they're being aggressive, but they are now putting the others in the situation where they're going to get all these guys and it's going to cost them quite a bit.

And if they're bad next year, or if they're even pedestrian where everyone's going to go, well that was a bit of a waste, wasn't it.

We'll see how it pans out.

But they put themselves in a risk position.

For me, it's the teams who are who should be better than they are but aren't.

So I'm looking Culton.

So Carlton's decision on Kerno is enormous if they trade him, and it seems like they are desperate not to they have to get something that makes their fans at least understand why they're willing to relent, because the fan base is already not thrilled.

Michaelvoss is already going on the hot seat next year, and he has no reason to want to trade away Kurno and get worse next year.

Because then he's keep his job is in the same ballpark.

Then, yes, but they are not at least they weren't supposed to be flag contenders this year, and they theoretically have a long term plan, a long term plan that's getting disrupted by trading away Zach Merritt because he's the superstar that helps the young guys get to that level along with him.

But it is still enormous for them.

If if they can make the case a lot easier, if you trade Merit and say, hey, we're going to go to the draft for the two three years, we're going to be really good.

Once Satazy comes in in twenty twenty eight, twenty nine, we're going to be contenders.

You can at least prosecute the argument to your fans, even if they are pretty impatient.

Understandably, So, what are you, jj I think makes you make a good point about Saint Cold.

They've taken and all the pressure off themselves early by almost convincing his players or his joint so we sort of re know what their plans are.

It's more now how those players all meshed together the next year.

I think it's more about teams like carl and Sydney.

Sydney with a team that we thought last offseason didn't do enough, I guess following their Grand Final loss, and then that sort of played out this year while some of their guns are out so we didn't they didn't sort of make them moves after they lost a Grand Final necessary to then sort of, I guess have enough list turnover to put themselves back in a conversation this year.

And I think Kurno is what could really put them over the top because we've long talked about their forwards being middling and not being real needle movers, and Kurno I think is a needle mover given the supply he'd get in that forward line.

So they're a big one and Cartler are a big one.

Geelong low key, but that's why Kerno sort of ties those three together in one in one this trade period.

Obviously, Hawthorne as well, you sense and need that extreme midfielder put them over the top.

Obviously they didn't have will Day, but you add Zach Merritt and a healthy will Day next year and Jesus can certainly they're right behind Wrisbe in terms of flag contention.

They're already I.

Think like second favorites and like the betting markets because which it's completely understandable from my perspective.

The other one, the Bulldogs, they need to do something.

They need to have some sort of defensive changes, whether it's list or tactical, ideally both they need to do something, and it seems like they're not getting anyone right now.

Well, they want cow Wilkie, they do, but it doesn't seem like sCOD is going to give him up.

So if if you can do that, that's probably the biggest win they could have this trade period.

Doesn't sound like they want Stephen May, which looking at Steven May over the last twelve months, I can kind of understand.

Was it kind of Butterick, Yes, it's been linked to Yes, I don't know that he's Robertson Dev Robertson.

Yeah, finally in midfielder at the Bulldogs.

That's an interesting call, so it doesn't seem like the guy isn't there for them to go and get.

In the same way that Sydney just needs a tall player who is good at football, the Bulldogs need a call defender.

Jake lever Jack Leber would be the best realistic veteran trade option for them.

I think I think it sounds like Jordan Butts maybe is more lucky to stay it now.

And I think, well, it didn't seem like either lev nor Melbourne were super keen on doing that when that was floated over the last few weeks.

Certainly not in the way that they're happy to let may go.

Richmond's Tyler Young is one of the players young, yes, yes, Young.

So if this is the pool of the Bulldogs swimming in, they are not fixing their problems.

And now, of course Joel Handling is off the market.

Bus You and Will for them were very devastated by Joel Hemming being part of trade.

Gws have been linked to about seven different veteran key defenders.

It's Sam Frost for free is not bad.

I don't mind Jane Leverde for them as depth.

That looks like it's happening.

Giants for a guy who might play like four or five six games.

No, Sam Frost to the Dogs.

There you go, do that, do it.

Luke Beverick definitely listening.

Lean Jones worked well last time when he came in as a real mature the definition of a mature age recruit there as a throw at the stumps.

They're just gonna be massive watch, like the Bulldogs just because and you look at their Grand Final, the footscray of Grand Final team and just how many AFLs and players are playing there, and it's just like they've got so much but have done so little.

And they'll they'll be a big watch.

And we at foxfooty dot com do a You will be watching the trade and draft period closer than anyone else.

Keep looking back to Foxfooty dot com dot Au.

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