[SPEAKER_03]: Ah!

[SPEAKER_03]: What are you doing?

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm telling you what you're doing.

[SPEAKER_03]: You're less than into the Elder Scrolls.

[SPEAKER_03]: Lord Cass!

[SPEAKER_03]: Either you are, around be skipping rope with your entrails.

[SPEAKER_00]: Ta-ta!

[SPEAKER_00]: This is the Elder Scrolls' Lord Cass.

[SPEAKER_00]: Your source for lore, and so much more.

[SPEAKER_00]: Adventures, welcome back to the Elder Scrolls lorecast.

[SPEAKER_00]: We are continuing our series, going into the books of Daggerfall, the very earliest in-game universe books that are part of the Elder Scrolls series.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're taking a look at specific ones that are interesting for different reasons.

[SPEAKER_00]: Notice this week, pull out a really cool book.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's called The Brothers of Darkness.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a book that talks about the Brotherhood and the More Egg Tongue, which we've discussed in previous episodes.

[SPEAKER_00]: to get a perspective on it from the earliest lore in the series that even brought this up.

[SPEAKER_00]: But also, when you pulled this out, you didn't realize this initially, but as you and I research this a little bit more, it turns out that the daggerfall version of the book is different from the other versions that come after from like Moroind on.

[SPEAKER_00]: Which is cool and weird, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: This was sort of like a happy accident as this week I was kind of browsed through and I was trying to see which one I wanted to cover and I liked your idea of like, hey, let's reach back to some of the OG books from like, you know, Daggerfall and see how it established lore and then how that lore has changed or evolved.

[SPEAKER_01]: as a series has gone on.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: We had the fairy thing where it was like, oh, you know, this was kind of initially brought up and then never really addressed for two decades.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's some cool differences here between the original version of the book and then what came later.

[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, the details in the book and the early understanding of the dark brotherhood and the morgue tolling and all of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's definitely kind of was referencing it from the more wind perspective of like, yeah, no, yeah, we like you said.

[SPEAKER_01]: We've discussed this duality before where it's like, okay, well, the more I talk is similar but a little more structured than the dark brotherhood and there's these other things you can listen to that episode if you're interested in stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I was just like, oh, it's kind of cool to see how they started and then yeah, to your point, you ended up finding that it's like, oh, this book's actually changed over time.

[SPEAKER_01]: So this is super on brand.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was beautiful.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll pretend I planned that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was a happy accident.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we're going to get into all of the details.

[SPEAKER_00]: So welcome.

[SPEAKER_00]: We should call this DeGraphall Book Club.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: DeGraphall Book Club.

[SPEAKER_00]: I like it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So welcome back to DeGraphall Book Club Book Club book too.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Brothers of Darkness by Palarnay.

[SPEAKER_00]: AC.

[SPEAKER_00]: P-A-L-L-A-R-N-E-A-S-S-I.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, notice I looked into this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Palarnay, AC, has only written this book.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess revised it because is also the author of the revised version.

[SPEAKER_00]: He apparently didn't like his own work.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess so changed it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess so.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess so.

[SPEAKER_00]: And again, this is another one of those names that I'm not really sure of the race.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have any speculation on Polarny assi?

[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say that last name is killing me right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: So like [SPEAKER_01]: I'm guessing, I don't know, or we go back to, is it a say she writing this?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, is there anything something weird here?

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe, I mean, these weird names, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Polarine, I mean, it seems like Imperial, I see, I see, I see, it seems foreign-ish, so, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Redguard-ish, maybe, because it will potentially be redguard.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not as vanilla as some of the other, you know, manish races.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right, exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, it's hard to tell, especially in the older, [SPEAKER_01]: especially I should say in the older episodes of the series just because some of these areas aren't even that fleshed out yet so like yeah if somebody has an idea for something like I was just joking like okay what about a sati well [SPEAKER_01]: It's not super established, just yet some of the lore we have around that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it could just be somebody's thoughts that then turned into it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It could be some undisernable race that they didn't really elaborate on the time or have fully fleshed out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, maybe just a fun name they picked because they weren't even really thinking about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the real world writer here is Ted Peterson.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this is a Ted Peterson authored actual, you know, out of lore book.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, out of lore book.

[SPEAKER_00]: But here, let's get into it because, and I've got some fun new feature.

[SPEAKER_00]: Check this out.

[SPEAKER_00]: The text pops up on the screen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now you can read along if you're watching the video version.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to say a fun treat for the video.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so here.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to read it out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, Moses is going to chime in.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll discuss each paragraph as we go.

[SPEAKER_00]: But here, let's start it off.

[SPEAKER_00]: As name suggests, the dark brotherhood has a history shrouded in obfuscation, such a fun word.

[SPEAKER_00]: Their ways are secret to those who are not brothers of the order.

[SPEAKER_00]: Brothers in the generic term, some of the deadliest of the assassins are female, but they are called brothers as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: how they continue to exist in shadow but can be easily found by those desperate enough to pay for their services is not the least of their mysteries.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this kicks off our little story here and I would imagine playing Daggerfall.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have the background we have with the dark brotherhood and understanding how all that stuff works or any of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they have to clarify these little details about like [SPEAKER_00]: They're all brothers, but women also.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, brothers in the general ceremony term, like they say.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the other thing that is kind of interesting is because of time and place of Daggerfall, you're going to keep in mind that a lot of the shadowy characters are just super emo.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was the nineties.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, they're all at awards and I'm just also at the ridiculous stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: Man, Marco, you can't even see his face.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's just shrouded and like a cloak.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Jinko jeans and a chain wall chain.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'll all over the place.

[SPEAKER_01]: You'll personally collect eyeliner.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[UNKNOWN]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, let's move on to the second paragraph because things are going to get more interesting as we go.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Dark Brotherhood sprang from a religious order, the Morag-Tong.

[SPEAKER_00]: Boom, right there, in this book, in the second game in the series.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Dark Brotherhood.

[SPEAKER_00]: And right from the start, pretty much.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, right, spring from Lori Tong during the second era, the more I'd Tong were worshipers of the Dager spirit, Muffalo, not Dager Prince, Dager spirit, who encouraged them to commit ritual murders in their early years, they were as disorganized as cultists usually are.

[SPEAKER_00]: There was no one to lead the group, and as a group, they dared not murder any of any importance.

[SPEAKER_00]: This changed with the rise of the Night Mother.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, nice mother.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, any notes of this.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say, I feel like we could bring in like a really annoying Cicero thing or something like that there, but then I won't want to listen to this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, true.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: We would turn away like, I don't know, a good thirty percent of our listeners have been.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's always a Cicero Apologist.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we would make another thirty percent of our listeners super happy about that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: But no, it's just kind of interesting because again, some of these as we work.

[SPEAKER_01]: talking about right out the gate with the opening two paragraphs.

[SPEAKER_01]: These have been organized pretty much.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like set in stone right from the beginning.

[SPEAKER_01]: There are definitely some hard and fast things that have not changed.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll get into the things that have shifted, but like right out the gate.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just like this this lore has started right from the beginning and lingered through the series.

[SPEAKER_00]: Great, immediately we have, they descended from the morghtong.

[SPEAKER_00]: They, or, yeah, they sprang from the morghtong.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was in the second era.

[SPEAKER_00]: Mfala is connected.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there's a night mother.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they're going to get a little bit more into that as we go.

[SPEAKER_00]: But here, let's move on to the next paragraph.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oops, it just moves on the screen, isn't that fun?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's lovely.

[SPEAKER_00]: All leaders of the Morag Tong and then the Dark Brotherhood have been called The Night Mother.

[SPEAKER_00]: Notice the way this is phrased.

[SPEAKER_00]: It feels peculiar, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and how right of the gate now, this is gonna start getting weird.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, whether the same woman has commanded the dark brotherhood since the second era is unknown, what is believed is that the original night mother developed an important belief of the morreg tongue.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll go ahead and get the next paragraph and kind of summarize both of these.

[SPEAKER_00]: The first belief is that while Muffalo grows stronger with every murder committed in her name, certain murders were better than others.

[SPEAKER_00]: Murders that came from hate, pleased Muffalo more than murders committed because of greed.

[SPEAKER_00]: Murders of great men and women pleased Muffalo more than murders of unknowns.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thoughts on that one?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's great.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a real great tenant to have.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just like, yeah, indiscriminate murder.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to make these count lighter.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just like, where did the gate comes with like a prestige setting to your murder, not just, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Basically being psycho past, which is kind of funny because the dark brotherhood tends to fall victim.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I always joke about that because I know people love the dark brotherhood.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think they're a cool faction, but they're not a faction that I personally am like, [SPEAKER_01]: in the games and I was like, man, whatever, these are cool storylines more so than I want anything to do with these, because they always kind of implode in on themselves, because the people that are connected to this are terrible.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're terrible.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: So what surprised that when they set up tenants, they don't always follow them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, it's also interesting here that Mfala ranks these in quality, like the quality of murderers.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, like hate murders.

[SPEAKER_00]: She wants people to be angry and like upset and not greedy.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's not the point.

[SPEAKER_00]: The point is the wrong, the wrong vice you're going for if you're going for greed.

[SPEAKER_00]: right right and then also the more important the people are the better off like the happier she is like it's one thing to murder the bum down on the rub but yeah nobody knows about the bum but you murder the emperor you make them fall a real happy [SPEAKER_01]: Right, a bigger risk, a bigger reward type of deal in her eyes.

[SPEAKER_01]: The thing that's also interesting is just in general.

[SPEAKER_01]: I like the idea of like this tiered quote unquote level that the game, I mean, they're games.

[SPEAKER_01]: So they have this like leveling and leveling is fun for a lot of people.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that weird concept is built into so many of the features of the world where it's like, I joked about the soul gem thing that we had a whole episode on.

[SPEAKER_01]: And now it's just like, yeah, there's like, [SPEAKER_01]: level quality to the things you do in the world.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it actually matters, which is kind of interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Robin Chatzas.

[SPEAKER_00]: You say, hey, I say passion at Werder.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's very, very nice.

[SPEAKER_00]: Very nice.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's also a discussion going on in chat that we can't really address because it's not part of this episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's about danger conferences.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if they even acknowledge that synthesis of thing, if there's any, uh, that's an interesting question.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe something worth digging into in the future.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he said, I could be a fun episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's go on track.

[SPEAKER_00]: We got to get back on track there.

[SPEAKER_00]: So let's continue on.

[SPEAKER_00]: We can approximate the time this belief was adopted with the first known murder committed by the Morag Tongue.

[SPEAKER_00]: In the year, three, twenty-four of the second era, the potentate, Versedu Shai, was murdered in his palace in what is today the elsewhere kingdom of Sanchal.

[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting references that are still accurate.

[SPEAKER_00]: uh...

in a brash move the night mother announced to the identity of the murderers by painting more egg tongue on the walls of the potent with the potentates blood notices the night mother announced the identity and painted on the walls which feels so different than our interaction with the night mother in the games or at least in the wall reason games uh...

i mean i can you picture the night mother from skyrim getting out of the coffin and going and painting a wall i mean getting back in the coffin [SPEAKER_01]: right as is if you don't you know [SPEAKER_01]: hit it with the spray bottle, I feel like she's just kind of like turned to dust.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like that same person, not that far before is apparently getting out of this situation by not only murdering the potentate, but then like drawing a mural essentially like graffiti tagging the wall with his blood, it's like, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a pretty involved murder.

[SPEAKER_00]: And only a few hundred years before the events of Elder Scrolls Online, [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so it's so after not before.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, after after.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, so this this event with name by their happened before.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, that's yes, just in case that was confusing just because that's real jumping around time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just just to be clear.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like that's pretty close to like the timeline of some of the earliest.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, the literal earliest that we play in in the series.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is like dating back to that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, I mean, I guess if she's, well, I suppose that's enough time that you could rotten a coffin for a while.

[SPEAKER_01]: Very different view than we get in Skyrim for, say, which is many, many, many years later.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, one of the big differences between this version of the story and this actual written account and the account in Moroen later is that in this account, it's very clear that the night mother is a woman, like a person, a female person, right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then in the redacted version of this story, as it shows up in Moroen and all the stories after this, it's actually very vague.

[SPEAKER_00]: The depiction of her is more of like, [SPEAKER_00]: Well, is she even really a person and it becomes kind of a different thing altogether?

[SPEAKER_00]: How do you feel about that?

[SPEAKER_01]: That's interesting because that's another thing that we see kind of.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like part of many aspects where you have almost a legend that builds for a character.

[SPEAKER_01]: More than the character itself.

[SPEAKER_01]: We have it similar with the gray fox.

[SPEAKER_01]: It seems like it's also very similar with this.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, well, maybe it's just...

[SPEAKER_01]: the legend of the night mother that needs to matter more so than the night mother.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's interesting because it's a real governing fake.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's something, you know, it's hard when we deal with really old legends in the real world.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, well, how much of this is actually true?

[SPEAKER_01]: How did we consolidate three different stories into one to make sound like there's one superhuman [SPEAKER_01]: hero type of thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: How much of this is actually done and then how it evolves over time is kind of an interesting theory because oftentimes it's just like, well, it's the legend that needs to matter because that's what we'll [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I'd say inspire with the dark brotherhood or more agon but sure we'll say inspire.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now one of the details that is the same is the fact that both of these accounts the writing of more agon on the wall using the tongue hates blood to the night mother.

[SPEAKER_00]: But there's there's more vagaries in the more recent version about what even is the night mother.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Again, it's just like, and this is a pretty big step because it's such a high profile murder, which we were just talking about, mattering to Mofawa.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's, and that's much higher up than a potent.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a very high level official.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it seems like the night mother wanted, everyone to know it was the moroghtong who did it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, not so much in the shadows if you're spray painting again on a wall.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's continue this story.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've got this part.

[SPEAKER_00]: Previous to that time, the more egg tongue existed in relative peace, like a witch's oven, occasionally persecuted, but usually ignored.

[SPEAKER_00]: in a remarkable synchronicity, like the police album.

[SPEAKER_00]: At a time when the arena was a fractured land, I noticed the arena there, the Morag Tang was outlawed throughout the continent.

[SPEAKER_00]: Every sovereign gave the cult's elimination his highest priority.

[SPEAKER_00]: Nothing more was officially heard of them for a hundred years.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the, in this version, Tamriel is still called the arena just like in the very first Elder Scrolls game arena, which is the name of, they've just to find it as, then we've talked about this before.

[SPEAKER_00]: Originally the game was designed to be kind of like an arena battle game and then they expanded out to this open world setting of this entire continent and then they called the continents.

[SPEAKER_00]: right yeah and then they're like okay well the continent is called arena the arena because it's every one's just fighting each other in life is so terrible and super brutal and violent all this stuff and then it just sort of became a nickname and it's actually called Tamriel right so that is one of the changes between this version and the next version is that in the second version it's not the arena in fact they redacted that on purpose for moral wind which [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of conveys the idea that they're backing out of the idea that anybody called Tamriel the arena at all, or at least at the timing of this writing in the second era.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was no longer being called that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's definitely a thing that they've gently nudged out of the picture as much as possible.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's continue on.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've got this next paragraph.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a bigger one.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is more difficult to date the era when the morghtong reemerged as the dark brotherhood.

[SPEAKER_00]: Notice the direct line there.

[SPEAKER_00]: They disappeared as the morghtong reemerged as the dark brotherhood, which feels not completely accurate to the bigger picture of the lore anymore.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right, because at several points, we know for a fact that the dark brotherhood and the morghtong exist at the same time and occasionally kind of come into conflict.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Assessant guilds have sporadically appeared throughout the history of Tamriel.

[SPEAKER_00]: The first mention of the dark brother that I have found is from the journals of the blood queen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, here we go.

[SPEAKER_00]: Arlimah Hera of Hegith.

[SPEAKER_00]: She spoke of slaying her enemies by her own hand or if necessary with the help of the Nightmother and her dark brotherhood.

[SPEAKER_00]: The secret arsenal my family has employed since my grandfather's time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Arlimah Hera [SPEAKER_00]: wrote this in the second era for twelve so one can surprise that the dark brotherhood had been in existence misspelled since the at least three sixty if her grandfather truly used them so few little differences here the spellings are fixed in the newer version which would make sense if somebody wrote this and they redacted what they wrote and they wanted to just fix some accidental misspellings right so in the universe that kind of makes sense uh...

but this is interesting this idea that like [SPEAKER_00]: that there's not just it's not so much that the dark brotherhood just kind of are a broken splinter group of the morgue tongue.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like they disappeared as one thing because I don't know they got a bad rap and then reemerges something like they rebranded like in ten modern terms.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a rebrand.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like oh that's one of those things when like Comcast generally had such a bad reputation that they tried to sort of [SPEAKER_01]: blend into like, hey, no, we're exfinity now, type of deal.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just kind of funny because it's like, well, I think people might still know that you're the same thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not all removed.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there's still some traces of it, but it's kind of funny.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like the rebranding ideas is kind of a funny way of putting exactly what they did.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's like the DC EU becoming the DC EU.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like everyone didn't like those movies more egg-tongue try again.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's just do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so the potent it was too much.

[SPEAKER_01]: Alright, let's ran it back in.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll show back up later.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll try something a little low key for a while and then we'll go for an emperor and really mess things up.

[SPEAKER_00]: in the fourth era.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: I also like here how the writer isn't a hundred percent sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about this all the time also.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: That everybody is an unreliable narrator.

[SPEAKER_00]: But even in this document itself, the person writing the document is speculating.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're going, well, there seems to be a reference in four, twelve.

[SPEAKER_00]: And she said that the dark brother had been an existence during her grandfather's time.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that would date it back to at least six [SPEAKER_00]: or three sixty so but we don't really know it's kind of like we're looking back on history from a much later point trying to put the pieces together which is how real world [SPEAKER_00]: old documents work.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you don't just get a clear answer.

[SPEAKER_01]: You really do kind of have to piece it together with what you've got as at your disposal.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's continue.

[SPEAKER_00]: Here we go.

[SPEAKER_00]: The important distinction between the dark brotherhood and the morghtong was that the brotherhood was a business as much as a cult.

[SPEAKER_00]: rulers and wealthy merchants now use the order as an assassin's guild.

[SPEAKER_00]: The brotherhood gained the obvious benefits of a profitable enterprise as well as the secondary benefit that no longer could rulers actively persecute them.

[SPEAKER_00]: They were needed.

[SPEAKER_00]: even an extremely virtuous leader would be unwise to maltreat the brotherhood, which seems pretty obvious because as a financial enterprise, you could just get paid to then take them out.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't play Kate them or try to play nice, then it wouldn't be too hard for someone to just be like, yep, off that guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's definitely a ruling by fear approach.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: But as we know, Muffalo didn't like the greed version of this as much as the hate version.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I would imagine this is implying that the dark brotherhood isn't as much in Muffalo's good graces as they could have been if they weren't like a [SPEAKER_00]: basically a business enterprise.

[SPEAKER_00]: Correct.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if you've played some of the games, you're very aware of how business oriented the Dark Brotherhood actually is.

[SPEAKER_01]: They seem like just whacked out like lunatics that are killing people.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yes, that's true to a degree.

[SPEAKER_01]: But once you get into some of the quest lines, like, oh, wow, this is okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is a business, just like anything else.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it makes me wonder, this combination of business and cult.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to think of other, I mean, I guess I guess we could get real dark, it's speculated by like real world examples, but the definition of cult is different to different people, depending on if we believe at something's a cult or not, depending on your own personal beliefs.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like that's, I mean, [SPEAKER_00]: We can speculate about real world assassins.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to go there, but the idea of a business profiting from their moral or immoral, depending on your perspective, cultish beliefs.

[SPEAKER_00]: Beliefs.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, see I know for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: Seems very credible.

[SPEAKER_01]: Seems very very possible.

[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't seem completely out of [SPEAKER_01]: the realm of possibility, especially when you can get somebody passionate about something, or if they're already passionate about it, and you can link it to something that would benefit you directly.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's generally a way of, okay, well, if we'll just use Astrid, for example, is like one of the most well-known, dark brother of people who's leaving stuff, and it's like, well, if she wants to turn a profit, for example, and she can make that connection with somebody, and then she basically uses them for her business venture, [SPEAKER_01]: You can get that connection where it's just like, okay?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, this is just it.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is a thing, you know, somebody's passionate about like being a serial killer's really screwed up like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then you utilize that from a, hey, how can I make money out of this?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they're getting what they want at the same time.

[SPEAKER_01]: She would theoretically be getting what she wants as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you have a pretty strong bond there that is pretty cultish, but it has this other layer of like organization and business aspect to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I also, when you think about the events of the Dark Brotherhood in games like Oblivion or Skyrim, you can see how there could be absolutely tensions between the business aspect, the personal wants and motivations of the individual members, and then what the nightmare wants.

[SPEAKER_00]: That seems to be a regular kind of storyline, is that all of those agendas don't, in fact, often don't line up.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're frequently at odds.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we have the origins of that in this document, which is kind of cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's continue on.

[SPEAKER_00]: We got two paragraphs left.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not long after a lima hera's journal entry about them.

[SPEAKER_00]: I always could stumble over these names.

[SPEAKER_00]: Was penned, came perhaps the most famous series of executions in the history of the dark brotherhood.

[SPEAKER_00]: And here we go.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Colovian emperor potentate.

[SPEAKER_00]: Severion Chorak and every one of his airs was murdered on one bloody night in Sun's Dawn in four thirty.

[SPEAKER_00]: Within a fortnight, the Colovian dynasty, I'm pointing that out for a reason.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll get to it in a minute.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll get to that in a second.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Colombian dynasty crumbled to the delight of its enemies for over four hundred years until the age of type or septum chaos rained over Tamriel.

[SPEAKER_00]: Though no comparable expressive executions have been recorded, the brotherhood must have grown fat with gold during that age.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, if we go to the other version of this, [SPEAKER_00]: It tells a different story.

[SPEAKER_00]: These are not collovian potentates.

[SPEAKER_00]: These are Akaviri emperor potentates.

[SPEAKER_00]: The name is the same.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's Savirian Chorak.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the dates are the same.

[SPEAKER_00]: It talks about the warrior emperor, type or septum.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then it also mentions the interregnum.

[SPEAKER_00]: But other than that, it is the same story.

[SPEAKER_00]: core concept here is that the dark brotherhood managed a massive murder of an extremely powerful individual and everybody else who was associated with that person basically just completely obliterating that lineage entirely.

[SPEAKER_00]: but he went from Kalovian to Akaviri, and we know that the Kalovian control of the empire was a thing, but then there was also this Akaviri control of the empire, which was also a thing during the second age, and goes right up to the events of Elder Scrolls Online, and if this document hadn't been redacted, then that story would be very different.

[SPEAKER_00]: It wouldn't be Akaviri emperors, it would be or emperor potente, it would be Kalovian emperor potente.

[SPEAKER_00]: which seems a little less weird.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's strange that it got...

Like, a weirder.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because, I mean, the Akavira aren't even from the same continent.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Very interesting change to the lore on that one, where it's just kind of like, you know, I guess, since you have the disparity on things, but it brings in a question.

[SPEAKER_01]: Which one is the case, I guess?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the lore is now officially acavary, because other documents line up with that and they've got to line up with that chain.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's just like one of those things where there's so much speculation in the series and ambiguity.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: just because we get these edits that happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if you really want to like play into the the the lore of the thing, it's like, well, okay, was that change for a reason or is that because it was just a mistype or, you know, they're more to that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just I like that change quite a bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and they specifically are pointing out in the more the updated version that this was during the interregnum, not just during the age, the second age during the interregnum, the period where there was no emperor and everyone was vying for control, which is the whole story of ESO, basically.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, and that goes all the way back to Morowind.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it kind of implies that that was worth pointing out for the stories that they were working on for Morowind on in order to tie all that together.

[SPEAKER_00]: But also that they didn't have the idea of the interregnum necessarily.

[SPEAKER_00]: May or may not have during the time of Daggerfall.

[SPEAKER_01]: I actually didn't tell you about this one in advance, so I'll see what you're thought.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a secret.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a surprise.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a surprise.

[SPEAKER_01]: Usually the one to throw out these wacky zany like like theories like lore theories.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so here's my theory.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: At the end of Daggerfall was our first introduction to a dragon break because they needed to tie in all the endings of [SPEAKER_01]: your choices because there were seven endings if I remember correctly.

[SPEAKER_00]: You like that's right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think there's seven endings to dagger fall.

[SPEAKER_01]: What if that change happened as a result of the dragon break?

[SPEAKER_01]: What if it might have been one thing in one timeline at a different one in a different timeline?

[SPEAKER_00]: Huh, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'd have to look through the different changes and what, like, because, because of where it falls in the series, I was like, it changes after that decision was made to introduce the concept of rag and bricks.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder as we go, and this is fun to do, because I don't know of any other creators who have done the idea of going back and looking at the Daggerfall versions of these stories, and then looking at later versions.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder as we continue through our Daggerfall Book Club, as we get to these other stories, if we're going to see other things that might help support that theory.

[SPEAKER_00]: that like the dragon break at the end of dagger fall and the the understanding what that means in the context of the greater picture of the lore and history created a need to make these changes in these books in more wind which also kind of creates that this weird the weird idea of what's what's theory we're like [SPEAKER_00]: Like the barren steam bears thing where people go like they think back and they're like as a child it was barren steam bears, but it's barren steam bears the Mandela effect right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is there a real world Mandela effect thing happening like in this fictional world like is that something?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's really wonder makes you wonder [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And as we've talked about before, they started flushing out a lot of these theories during the development of Daggerfall, but it really wasn't until the time between Daggerfall and Moroind that the version of the lore that seems much more commonly upheld as canon was really solidified by the team and kind of expanded on.

[SPEAKER_00]: What of these things are redactions?

[SPEAKER_00]: Just from a creator standpoint, just go out like, and now we would rather have this be the story.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what are other things that may be actually in world changes?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like actually redacting a book because the writer needed to update it because something crazy happened like a dragon break.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a really interesting question.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, one last paragraph, this is how it ends.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Dark Brotherhood has no shortage of business opportunities and accounting I have been informed is the Brotherhood's favorite euphemism for an execution.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love that.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have to pay your accountant.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_00]: While they are officially considered an unlawful organization in every corner of the Emperor, like Empire, like the thieves guild, they are almost as universally tolerated.

[SPEAKER_00]: period done end of story.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I love.

[SPEAKER_00]: Can you think of an examples of when they've said like accounting instead of execution in any of the more recent games?

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like the sanitation worker instead of garbage man just like execution terms.

[SPEAKER_00]: right right but also like that would mean that you're hiring an accountant like your blood ritual would be playing the like paying the accountants like what what why is there like a heart on the ground with bones and weird candles and oh I was just I had just had to pay the account and worry about it paying in blood is it is a term people use yeah sure that's true or you know being you know bleeding because of expenses who [SPEAKER_00]: All right, so there you go.

[SPEAKER_00]: Any other thoughts on this?

[SPEAKER_00]: The brothers of darkness?

[SPEAKER_01]: No, I just, I love that most of this has been just like set-in stone from the beginning with just interesting little adaptations as the series has gone on.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's also interesting because there are still changes between the versions from more wind onward.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a subtle thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: For example, with a very last paragraph, only shows up in [SPEAKER_00]: the Morowind and ESO version, but was left out of the oblivion and skyrim version.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was the paragraph I just read about the dark brotherhood, no shortage of business opportunities, accounting, being tolerated like the thieves guild, that kind of thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's curious, I don't know why you would just choose to pull that paragraph out of a version and why oblivion.

[SPEAKER_00]: Why that paragraph specifically?

[SPEAKER_00]: later in the series, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I don't feel like any of that is incorrect even if they didn't make any specific character say accounting for execution, you know, swapping the terminology.

[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't mean you need to pull a paragraph out of a book.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't really have a theory about why that would happen, but it is something else to note.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and just like how [SPEAKER_01]: How many parts are added or subtracted based on game?

[SPEAKER_01]: Not even necessarily based on game in any specific order is what makes this such an interesting book.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's brothers of darkness by Polarny Oce and we will continue on with our book club next week.

[SPEAKER_00]: But let's take a quick break.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've got to go think our patrons.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've got a random page, which I haven't even clicked on yet.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to find out what that is.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so don't go anywhere.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be right back.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is a Miss Murloc, Dragonborn, and you are education yourself, to the Elder Scrolls, Lord Cass.

[SPEAKER_00]: I got another, I didn't expect this for, I guess I never expect the random pages to show how this works, but random works.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's how random works.

[SPEAKER_00]: But real quick, welcome to the Patreon to Abrita MK, who signed up this last week.

[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome, welcome aboard.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hope you're enjoying your ad free episodes.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's all sorts of stuff you can get on the Patreon, including [SPEAKER_00]: course the ad free episodes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So however you want to listen to it as a podcast on a podcast feed that also shows up on Spotify.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's pretty well discounted.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you can also get T-shirts and stickers and join us for our Patreon chat, which is coming up in just a week on the twenty-eighth, the week from when we are recording this right now on Thursday, the twenty-eighth at nine p.m.

[SPEAKER_00]: Eastern.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you sign up now, you'll still have time to join us and help pick out the topic that we're going to cover.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, let's say we've got some, they drink princess to shout out every week, our they drink prince tier patrons, Austin B, Blinding Vision here, scene, Kira C, and Peter R.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for your continued support.

[SPEAKER_00]: We really do appreciate it and her scenes a chat.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, sir.

[SPEAKER_00]: How you're seeing?

[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, you're seeing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if you'd also like to help us out with a review, leave a review or a comment.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just leave a nice comment.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can comment on Spotify.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And if you do it over there in the US, we'll read it out on a future episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: Don't have any new ones this week, but if you do so, then you'll get read on the next episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: But Lotus, are you ready for the random lore page?

[SPEAKER_01]: I am, but I want to give a quick shout out to Berg real quick, because I think this is really funny when we were discussing the euphemisms for things.

[SPEAKER_01]: And in mob terms, do you have somebody be an interior decorator?

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like interior decorator just screams of like gut gardens in the series as it's.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've been with all those real happy about gut gardens.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, so random page.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're random page.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is under lore.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's fun appendices, guild act.

[SPEAKER_00]: This, uh, here, I'll just read it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: The guild act of the second era, three, twenty one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Same timeframes that we were been talking about on brand.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Also known as the guild's act.

[SPEAKER_00]: was a legislative act that codify the practice of guilds throughout the second empire encouraged by Pelladil Derenny and signed by potentates versus Sidhu Shai in the second era, three twenty one, a name that already showed up in the episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: The guilds of tankers, cobblers, prostitutes, scribes, architects, brewers, minners, weavers, rat catchers, [SPEAKER_00]: Furriers, not furries, furriers, furriers.

[SPEAKER_00]: Cooks, astrologers, healers, tailors, minstrels, barristers, and most importantly, the Guild of Mages, founded in the second era, two, thirty by Vaniscalarian and the Guild of Fighters, founded the previous year by the potentates Kinzman, Dynir S.

Ves, and chartered under the section four of the Guild back.

[SPEAKER_00]: It goes on and talks about more of the details about this gild act, but it's interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Notice what is not included in here is something like the dark brotherhood, which is kind of like a gild, or the thieves gild not mentioned.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, gild adjacent, gild adjacent, and that kind of stuff, because those were tolerated, but not official.

[SPEAKER_00]: Weird.

[SPEAKER_00]: I promise I just hit the random page.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like I didn't even think I didn't even know about the gild act until I saw this pop-up when I hit random page.

[SPEAKER_00]: There you go again.

[SPEAKER_01]: I did know about this and this is very on on brand for our dagger false subseries here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, so it talks about how like the mages guild was briefly had their charter revoked.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, maybe I don't because of the sole burst.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know this does sound familiar.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have talked about this a little tiny little bit, but it's been a while.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, in passing.

[SPEAKER_00]: In passing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there you go.

[SPEAKER_00]: The guild act is our random page.

[SPEAKER_00]: Who knew?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean the stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's always a surprise.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he's surprised when you hit that button.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna get the button one more time to see what we get real fast.

[SPEAKER_00]: Velothi painting classic volcano.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's very beautiful painting.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can put up in your house.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that's going to do it for this episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you're enjoying our Daggerfall Book Club.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know you got stuff going on with Tales of Tamriel.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we actually just released an episode.

[SPEAKER_01]: Update forty seven just came out on PC.

[SPEAKER_01]: I get it in a little less than two weeks at this point.

[SPEAKER_01]: We get it on September third on console.

[SPEAKER_01]: But if you're interested in all the news related to that and we had a really ridiculous side tangent where we went back into Elder Scrolls Castle's last [SPEAKER_01]: episode.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you didn't remember that game exist because we didn't.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's the mobile game.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we have a quest to bring back that segment.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we did.

[SPEAKER_00]: Nice.

[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't played that in six months.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, let's just say we had neither, so it was really interesting firing on both back up on stream.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's funny, because you and I were talking in the pre show about like the crazy stuff going on in our lives.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've spent a lot of time just waiting in car line to pick up my son from school and I was thinking today and earlier this week I was like, is there a game on my phone?

[SPEAKER_00]: I should just be playing while I sit here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I'll have to load castles back up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe play something else.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's not so good, huh?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not really struggle to call that an Elder Scrolls game.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there you go.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure you have some very exciting things to say about it on Tales of Daniel.

[SPEAKER_00]: So go check that out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Also, if you want more of my stuff, I do a bunch of shows and follow the Lord of the Rings Lord custom working on a new project.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's yet to be announced that I'm super excited about more info about that in future weeks.

[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, lots of other shows on the network, robots, or you do a net for all of those shows.

[SPEAKER_00]: And just join us on the Discord.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a whole list of channels for each of the shows.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you're looking for more content, thanks to Listen to all at work.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you're while you're waiting for our next episode or something like that, go look.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a whole bunch of things, lots of fun stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: But thank you everybody for being here, chat.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for being here as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: And until next time, [SPEAKER_00]: If you're gonna murder somebody, do it with hate because we follow.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll enjoy that way more than...

Also, apparently charge for it, but don't be greedy about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Don't be...

Yeah, charge a fair...

A fair murder price is only people.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure how much murders are going with the standard pricing for murders is right now, but...

Please don't listen to anything we say.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, don't do any of that, that's terrible, and then we're gonna get demonetized.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, we'll see you next time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Bye everybody.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for tuning into the Elder Scrolls lorecast.

[SPEAKER_00]: Check out RobotsRadio.net for more podcasts just like this, and join us on the RobotsRadio Discord, be part of a community of over five thousand people who are excited about video games and so much more.

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