The important part of regular one-on-ones is not that information is conveyed, but it's about you being consistent as a leader that they can trust that meeting is always going to happen.

And that they understand that, that is a meaning, we're like meaningful, things are going to be discussed.

Welcome to the super managers podcast, where we interview leaders from all walks of life to tease out the habits, thought patterns, learnings and experiences that help them be extraordinary.

Nari at the fine craft of management, our goal is to bring you the lessons and the insights so that you don't have to learn through your own mistakes but so that you can shortcut your way to being a great leader.

This podcast is brought to you by fellow the software platform that helps managers and their teams work better together.

Check it out at www.elllo.org.

Hey, fellow managers and leaders.

My name is Aiden and I'm the CEO of fellow.'.

Today, I'm excited to bring to you a conversation.

I had with Michael Lop who you actually may know by his pen name of Rands.

Michael is the author of managing humans being geek and the Art of leadership.

He's been writing for over 17 years, sharing his insights on management culture and Technology through his blog, which of course I highly recommend Rands and Repose during is career.

Michael has led rapidly growing teams at companies like Netscape Pinterest slack, and apple in this episode Rands talks about the power of scheduling regular one-on-one meetings, asking clarifying questions and so much more.

We also discuss the concept of manager readmes and how they can help, you build more efficient, and positive, working relationships throughout.

This episode is truly.

Of the greats.

So, without further Ado, here's Michael Lop on another episode of the super managers podcast, Michael.

Welcome to the show.

Good to be here.

Thank you.

Yeah, this is super awesome.

We've been looking forward to chatting with you for, for a long time, now that we finally had the chance to do it and we were just talking about this, but I know that this is a question that a lot of people have, which is obviously, you know, your Michael but, you know, your pen name.

Is Rands.

So what should we call you during this podcast?

What should I refer to you as it's sort of up to you?

The the story there is Iran's is the one.iu name.

I, you know, they use on the internet and it's actually my wife's maiden name.

So I picked it a million years ago when I was like logging into some system and what I need a nickname ba and then here we are years later and it's sort of the name on the internet.

But when people use it, I know they're talking about me on the internet, which is interesting.

Lat My last name, I'm gonna work for the last couple of gigs.

It's called me a lot.

Michael's, my first name when I hear it.

Now I feel like I'm in trouble.

Usually like Michael don't like someone who knows?

Me you need something.

I'm so it's really up to you.

Ran slop Michael throw my name, cool.

I might just interchange between all of that.

That's what that's he put it in the next book.

Actually, it is kind of swap between things I had to explain in the beginning.

I'm like, by the way, I kind of switch between things the hope that's cool.

Yeah, no actually.

I mean, since you brought up the book Look obviously, like one of the things that we know you most actually, there's a bunch of things that we know you a lot about.

And I do want to mention them here because I think they're all just amazing resources.

So obviously you wrote the book managing humans.

Which, you know, I think is incredible.

It's obviously very instructive but it's also very humorous and it's actually entertaining to read.

So at that, something that everybody should check out there, but you're also working on.

I guess, a new book that's coming out.

Yeah, it's all done, actually.

It's you can.

You can like, literally in the last week.

It's starting to show up on Amazon.

It's called, It's called The Art of leadership small things done.

Well, and yeah, I just finished it and it was publishing books as hard as he always has no problem.

Alright, 30 40 chapters but it that that getting it out the door.

There's not and now it's done in the marketing kind of kicks in over the course of the next couple weeks and we'll see how it does that's amazing.

And so what is he like, super high level?

Sure to synopsis and And how does it compare to managing humans?

Yeah, so this is the third book managing humans, which is doing incredibly well, by the way, it was my first book and I'm actually just signed a contract to do the fourth edition of it.

And I'm going to kind of take a stab at sort of distributed working and managing and type of Crisis, but it is sort of this collection of of humorous, humorous, Stories.

The gave it this subtitle.

When I first did it, it's called managing humans, you know, biting and humorous, Tales of a engineering manager or something like that, which I thought was Super dumb.

But it's actually does describe it.

Well and you said it too, which is it sort of stories but it's also sort of lessons and inside of those stories.

And I think that's one of the reasons it's done.

Well, is number one is, I think it's approachable and also I've just been keeping it up-to-date and the fourth edition is coming to started in 2007's.

So it's getting refreshed but how it's it's different than the how small things done.

Well, is different is I I really wanted to kind of debunk the myths of leadership as being this like higher calling sort of inspired certain kind of genetically relevant.

Humans can do this thing and focus on just sort of the tactics of leadership.

So small things done.

Well, I found about 30 or so just really practical small things that I think you should just do like a thousand times in a row and it's not because The thing itself is particularly inspired, its that the act of doing it a thousand times.

Well, actually teach you, some really interesting things about yourself or your team or reputation or trust or respect.

So 30 thing and in sort of the same sort of tone as all the other brands books as being sort of funny and whatnot.

But I really just focused.

I said, these are the 30 thing and you literally list them at the beginning.

The book, these are the small things.

And I also kind of took a lot of words, like sort of seeps executive, you know, senior manager manager.

Of trunk them a little bit to kind of have a different perspective around sort of the different small things.

That's awesome.

I mean I'm ordering it literally after we get off this call but I so I remember like in the original book there was a an 11-point test of that you had put so is it along the same lines but just expanded and more Broad and role-specific.

Not as much, there's a couple that are like that where like there's one in there, which is sort of like, A professional growth questionnaire for yourself.

Like am I growing right now and sort of like ask yourself these questions so there's some like that but there's other ones where it's just really like it's really this simple like what's a good one like read the room like learn how to read the room part of your job here isn't just like reacting was happening.

It's understanding who's here.

How they're feeling?

It's like playing poker, right?

And you're like what's what did I walk into here and learning how to do that?

You're not great at it immediately.

I tried a couple of times and see how it goes, so in explains why that's important.

So it's sort of a little bit more prescriptive about sort of the things to do.

But again, not like be a Visionary or Inspire the team, which is sounds great, but it's kind of vapid and hard to act on and these are very smaller things, which perhaps will get you there.

Yeah, I love it.

It's almost like they call the different things that if you were to break down someone who does it really well.

And then just outlining them.

Um and yeah that's amazing that sounds.

Yeah, I hope so.

I hope so.

Let's see how it goes.

Yeah, I'm excited to read it.

You know, it's you've written about obviously a lot of different topics and you know, one of the things that that we've read about you is just your, you know, your how to rants guide.

Sure.

I'd love for you to just tell the audience here.

What?

What kind of got you to write that?

I guess.

And how often do you update?

Did it.

Like how does it work?

You recommend everybody do it.

Is it just for managers?

Is it for everybody?

Um it's it's a what it is basically.

As I go through and I kind of say, imagine if you were, well, if you were working for me on the first day and you're like, who is this Schmo and like, what's he about?

And I'd go, this is, this is the read me if you want to think of it.

And that sort of thing, I really don't actually recommend that as a way of doing it, but you're capturing the things of who you are as a leader.

Both your Sort of those sort of some of your, some of your quirks and sort of like how you kind of run your day and kind of in its sort of sort of this reflective exercise of reflecting on who you are as a leader.

So so there's kind of two different use cases.

Their number one is and I think this is 50% of the value of going to the exercise is just taking that time to kind of reflect on the things that you care about as the leader.

But also to kind of like think about the things that kind of you know might be different than other people out there.

An example like my wife knows this incredibly well, I'm an Ask assertive, meaning that if you want something from me, you say, hey, Lop Rands Michael, whatever your name is.

Can you do this?

I'm like, well, of course, I can no problem.

Now, if you do exactly the same thing with exactly the same tone using teleservices, Michael do this.

I'm immediately mad at you and it's not, that's not about you.

That's just a weird thing I have about power.

So like I am asked a serve, you can you literally the way that you asked me to do something will change my tone about how I respond?

Now, I don't you tell me to do Something I'm not going to like, jump up and start screaming or anything like I'm telling you my head kind of what's going on and that's just a small example and there's a bunch of things in there.

Like I'm just really, really, really big on being on time and it's a respect thing.

It's a when I'm having a meeting with folks, it's not just about me.

It's about everyone else who's there and that we're getting things done.

So I'm really big.

I'm big on meeting, starting on time and you should know that person that works with me.

So anyway, it was sort of that Use and then there's the other piece, the piece of sort of reflecting on what you care about, which I think is important.

And then there's sort of having that therefore other for your team to kind of look at.

I don't think you should like declare, this is the way that it is, but I think it's we as humans can be opaque and instead of strange ways.

I think it's a good way to kind of get a temperature check of your boss.

Oh, so yeah.

It's a good thing too, right?

Yeah.

I mean, I love it for so many reasons.

One is that, I mean, like you said, it's the process of creating it, and Sometimes you actually have to sit and ask yourself a bunch of different questions so that you can actually say yeah I do like this or I don't like this.

Yeah, the exercise is probably a great but it's also, you know, I assume that you know, people will figure this stuff out if they're working with you for long enough it's just white short circuit it and yeah and you've always worked at such high growth companies that there's just not enough time to it.

Is it's true.

It's really is a function of the the Both the kahless is kind of circumvent, this sort of learning process when you go on through the next month and just kind of go, this is how it, this is how I work.

So and you ask something.

Another language is how often they updated.

I take a look at it every quarter or so but it hasn't substance.

I've edited, it's in the book.

The next book is, well, I edited a bit but it's it hasn't changed a ton, little small things have, but not substantive changes.

I'm curious in all your, I guess years of leading teams.

Have you ever like coming Like, have you ever had someone on your team because like oh thanks for this guide.

Actually, I have one too, here it is.

I have seen managers at my prior company.

They did it as well, and we shared them.

There was so yeah, other folks done it and it was interesting.

It was interesting to see and I see them other people are doing on the internet to.

And I, they're interesting just to read sort of as a sort of, as a reflection of the person like, oh, and they do it in different ways and they interpret the exercise in different ways but It's really, I think it's just interesting to kind of capture who you are as a leader.

Yeah definitely.

And so obviously you know, one of the things that you you talk about.

Also in the guide is this, you know, how important one-on-ones are to you.

And you know, one of the things you obviously talk about is you don't want them to be just updates and like you want things of substance what is a topic of substance?

Well, let's talk about it.

Not it.

What it is not which is Is things that I can figure out by going into the bug tracking system, or the Confluence page, or this sort of thing, and that's sort of sort of restating what you just said about.

Like I'm not going to waste your time going and asking you things about, you know, how many bugs do we have in this component of this sort of thing?

Now I'm a look at that.

Get the data somewhere and say, hey my spidey-sense topic of substance.

My Spidey Sense is with these many bugs as many people on the team.

Not it, Tada, I think we have a problem here.

What do you think?

And we go interesting and we have a discussion about it so it it's not about the status on of the data.

It's about sort of the strategy around the thing.

So I usually have two or three things going into any one-on-one of that nature where we're going to have a debate about something a discussion about something.

And if I don't have anything and you don't have anything, I have three more things that I just fall back on.

That are always good conversation.

Ins your growth, my current disaster because something's always blowing up for me, let's talk about that.

It may not even be your team, right?

It could be something else.

So it's those it says it's those just high-bandwidth conversations, strategic, not tactical something where we can have a Convent.

And by the way, I get coaching, we get coaching out of this and both directions.

We can learn things, right?

So that's the reason to do it and like I can't imagine a more important regular meeting that how with my team on a weekly.

Is because we have all your Tactical meanings elsewhere and there's these status.

A number that about like, this is the time for us to actually grow every week.

Like that sign me up.

Yeah, sure.

And it's interesting because you say every week does that, I mean, does that change at all, depending on the seniority of like the person on your team or how long you've been working with them?

Umm, no it.

So it's one, it's it's more senior folk brand, new folks are have things to talk about Very, senior, folks have some things to talk about the issue that people usually ask is like, well, what if I have a lot of direct report then you have a different problem which gives you don't have time for your team, which is that's a whole other thing.

My number is 7 plus or minus 3.

Someone has more than 10 direct reports.

I start worrying.

I'm going who on the team is not suffering and you don't know because you don't have time.

So if I start to get too many folks and that's all, it's an impacting, my calendar, I fix that go after that issue.

As opposed to like I got to go to a bi-weekly or monthly.

I mean, there's different folks outside of my immediate sphere of sort of where I work.

I'll have like monthly meetings and that sort of thing, but those are more sort of bridge building meetings across the org.

Got it into what is the sort of balance of?

I mean, sounds like, which is awesome.

It sounds like you're walking into all these things with a series of things that you're going to Probe on.

And I mean, I love this concept of Of you said that, you would look at a bug tracker and then, you know, make it draw a conclusion that like is this.

It's almost like your spidey sense you talk about in your book as well.

The twinge I'd love for you to explain, explain the twinge.

What is the twinge?

I, it's really hard on.

This is really abstract.

It's hard to answer the question.

Um, It's just it's another thing from the book, the most recent book, I call it tasting, the soup.

And this is sort of a, this is a benefit of doing leadership for a lot of years is you kind of hear something.

And someone says, something in your brain, Which is far smarter than you will.

You goes and says this is smells run.

And, and by the way, don't know why.

But it's just that, that sort of that twinge of like, hey, what is, what does that mean?

And what I think is going on and on, A brain person at all is there's this amazing pattern matching thing that's going on and your brain is just throwing this exception.

When this thing gets said, which is as well, by the way, we've seen this scenario 217 times.

And in this scenario, when this was said this blows up in this way and that is that that's your brain kind of like throwing.

And sometimes it's just like, oh, just clarify this thing and it's fine.

But sometimes you're like, wait, there is something here.

And I want to drill into this.

It's sort of honoring.

That ability of your brain to have intuition and to sort of like, have those sorts of like inspiration about a scenario.

I think there's a lot of it's one of the reasons that it's one of the reasons the one-on-ones and other things.

I like I learned this from a prior boss any time that something doesn't seem right to me whether it's like super wrong or kind of when I always ask clarifying questions.

Does this mean kind of that?

And I'm just trying to probe and kind.

A sense of what's going on, not in sort of a micromanager way, just sort of an a seeking Clarity.

So it away.

So it was a long answer.

Yeah.

No, that actually, that's, that's a great answer and it may sound like a small thing but I think it's actually super important because I think the concept is you actually have to get really good at detecting when the twinge arrives because you know, a lot of times you eat something might have felt long but you didn't say anything and then like you'll make mistake a few times.

But then you're like, oh no, I have that subtle feeling like, no.

It's actually my job to say something especially in the, I mean, you know, one-on-one, maybe it's slightly easier because it's you and one person, but often in, you know, in a larger context, you might have to stop the train to.

Yeah.

My other move there.

That's related to.

That is, when I kind of get the twinge, is you say something.

And I'm like, hmm.

And I don't have a question.

But I don't I want to make sure that the way that I heard it was correct.

So I say what I heard you say is this and I repeat what you said and I don't know seven out of ten times like yeah you're right and three out of ten times or like that's not at all.

What I said, you know.

Great.

Okay, cool.

Let's let's talk about that.

So it's, it feels kind of douchey in a little bit just because you sort of this in this meeting and he sort of doing this sort of spot checking but as a senior leader, that's part of your gig is, you're just sitting there looking kind of out of this.

Broad set of data trying to find where the errors and potential errors or emerging fires are so.

Yeah.

And actually, so speaking, I mean, I love that and speaking of other tactics and things, you also have the long pause as part of your Tactical sweet there.

How does that work?

It's talked about I do a podcast as well called it.

The important thing it's just me a friend talking but talk about it there.

It's this is movie called Eddie and the Cruisers, he probably never heard of it.

Have you heard now, I have not it right anyway.

It's like this.

I don't know, it's in.

This is musician in this movie doesn't matter what the movies about and he's talking about writing poetry.

And I swear to God, this is related to your question.

And there's this a power that you as the speaker or the writer have to kind of control the flow of the conversation and when I pause, It changes everything like I just did that.

They're right.

And it's like and you're like, you're like is everything.

Okay, it is freezing like and people listen, you're going, likewise you, but it's just way too in a world full of people, talking all the time.

It's this way to kind of grab the conversation, grab the narrative and kind of kind of change it.

And I learned this a lot, I learned this from Eddie and the Cruisers I learned this from a lot of riding in a lot of leading.

It's in a lot of speaking as well.

It's a really good way to kind of grab your Audience.

And make sure you, are you listening to this right now?

Guess what I'm saying is important, not in a douchey way, by the way.

And it you bet it can kind of It.

Kind of frame the way that you're talking at the night.

Yeah, I love it.

I think everybody should use that in their upcoming one-on-one.

See, how many seconds you can go until someone says something?

Yeah, you don't do it in a mean way.

It's not like I had a boss.

Who was sort of ramp to you.

It was like He would just do these long pauses, and I eventually figured out that he was like pre compiling everything.

It was saying in his head to me, and he just had to do that for a while.

Used to drive me kind of easy and I thought it was a hard.

No, he was just like getting all sorted in his head but it could be a power trip to and I'm like screw that and it's yeah, I mean it's one of those, I love that.

So you know basically strengthen the twinge, the detection the long pauses love it.

Great tactical stuff.

Let's Talk about staff meetings.

So everybody.

Well, everybody should have staff meetings.

I'm just curious, you know from from all the years that you've been doing this.

What is the, you know what, to write, Cadence for it.

What gets said, like, what's the template?

What do you want to talk about during those things?

Yeah, I mean, let's talk about the core reason for it is as part of your job as a leader is sort of setting the Cadence of things in the OR Like how are we moving along?

And whether that's, you know, long software development Cycles or continuous integration continuous development Cycles.

Whatever its different companies do it in different ways.

But for me, I kind of found a weekly Cadence of like this is what we're going to do this week and even whether that's a long term whether that's with long operating system Cycles or really short sort of slack you know, we release every single day.

So I kind of look at the week is sort of a unit of work if If you will, and the staff meeting, is there to kind of set the stage for what is happening this week that matters and it's, you know, and that's that's why it's there it's early in the week because we want to set the tone like, this is a planning week and we're doing X Y & Z, or this is a bug fixing way, can we doing a b and c?

So that's why it needs to exist.

But back to you, the one-on-one religion, I have a staff meeting is not status as well.

Would you as a team?

We're talking about, okay?

Cool.

Planning is happening.

What are the Things.

What do we know who's worried about what, whose political what's going on?

How do we do about this?

So that's that.

But it's also just like 10 ones too.

It's an opportunity for anyone on the team to kind of throw down and say I had love to talk about this.

So I publish my agenda in a collaborative document solution and I put the things I want in and anyone else can add anything that they want as well.

So it's just it's an opportunity for other folks.

To kind of throw things on the list, it's about an hour.

If we don't fill it, okay?

Because sometime back, no problem.

We generally get generally gets filled and it generally right next to the one.

On one to me is sort of the most important meeting of the week.

Because his us the leadership team kind of breaking bread together and talking and working on things.

So it's a that's the that's the recurrence of it.

That's the agenda for and that's part of the purpose.

I'm curious how much in advance you actually send this out the agenda to the team and also is there.

To you, is it?

So is there like any regularity in terms of you know you want this person to talk about this or is there like a forest almost like yeah you actually have to come to this meeting with something for like this section of the meeting?

Or is it like very much free flow and anybody can talk about anything?

It's, it's the latter.

Mostly, the agenda is, so the agenda is reverse linearity.

So it's a stock that has everything in it from the beginning of time and anyone can add anything at any point.

Also, So I was previously the in VP of engineering at slack, so there's a slack channel.

So people always talk in the staff slack Channel.

We're talking about things, there's a the PIN to that thing in there so we kind of get a sense of things that need to be talked about and there's definitely a case where someone is going to say, cool, Julia.

Can you come in and talk about X Y & Z this next week?

So that will happen.

But it's, there's a would generally sticking to the agenda.

There can be and it's totally cool.

If we kind of go off script and we're talking, Something else.

But the agenda is generally the thing there because I want to set expectations for folks.

I've been in that staff meeting you probably have been in well with boss who just likes to talk.

And I can cool you really like talking.

I uh, I've already heard this because you'd said the same thing to me and more one-on-one.

This is not useful, I'm not getting anything out of this.

I want to respect him when it's time.

Make it clear.

A contract if you will like what are we going to do here?

So it can be some yellow there.

But it's mostly.

It's mostly on.

On the agenda, got it, got it, you know, Switching gears for a second.

I wanted to talk about something that you probably also reference in your one-on-ones but you know, we've heard you say that board people quit.

So I think for any manager this concept of someone quitting is is probably always scary.

Yeah.

I'm just curious.

How do you detect a board person?

What do you do about it?

The title of that article that article did amazingly.

Well, the title will be until the last second was, I don't even know what it was, but it was something really just like would poetic obtuse and then it became that and it's literally like one of the top three articles I've ever written because it's just like, you get the entire article, in three words.

Anyway, sidebar, there's also make the best business books.

It's like, you don't need to read the book, just read the title.

The thing that I have detected, you said, ask like, how do you detect it?

It's very obvious to me when someone's board it in, this is after, you know, the person you don't know, like, right out of the gate, but it's any sort of change to behavior.

You know what, engaged, Frank looks like, you know what, he's when he's doing his thing, and anytime that I sent sort of a change in Frank's productivity, by the way, it could be something, totally normal.

It could just be something at home, it could be whatever but it could also be.

Frank is now explored this problem space enough.

He understands how it works.

Frank has a short attention span.

So I asked and salesman Frank, I'm noticed this that I don't know, big deal, I don't know what I'm doing and I'm listening, I'm listening about what is the answer and if the answer is anything around, he says anything around us, like like kind of was getting, it's not that interesting.

Ting and it's just, you just sharing contacts with me.

What is this shit?

Sorry, but he's, um, if I had if I'll detect that he's there's some boredom there.

I go into Red Alert mode.

I move into a mode that I don't tell him this, by the way, but I remove it.

Because that moment of boredom to him is just sort of a piece of boredom, focus on Wednesday was kind of dull, but the larger thing there, if I don't do something over the next couple Weeks, that little seed of boredom turning they like, oh, well so-and-so gave me a call, and they want me to work on this thing over here, right?

And there, this is another article.

Their Shields are down and they can send, they certainly, well, kind of bored.

So, yeah, let's see what else is out there?

Right, so, I move into cool.

Frank, you're off this, you're on to this other thing or here's this.

Huge thing.

That's scary that I know you wanted to do.

I mean, it's not like a drop everything and like change the pivot, the entire team.

But it's they usually tell you.

And the question is, do you R them and do you actually act, right?

We're so busy in as leaders and it just bugs me when you reflect back and go like, oh yeah, he told me, he told me like, six months ago and I put a little note on my to do and I never did anything about it.

That's on me as his leader as a person who was responsible for his growth.

So you just act quickly but it's listening and it's almost again, once you really start listening, they always tell you, they are always tell you, maybe not in the words of boredom or anything, or they tell you in some way.

Yeah, I love that.

I mean, just another thing.

I think, you know, all of us probably subtly do it but because it's so subtle you might miss it.

And like you said, it starts as a seed grows.

Oh, and by the way, the fact that he chose this hypothetical, Frank chose to is sort of this act of trust like a boss.

Yeah, I'm kind of bored of this thing.

And it's and this telling you because you're shooting the breeze with them, right?

But they told you and you act, by the way, free leadership points.

You were dressed something before it turned into a disaster.

So which is part of the hard, a lot of my job.

As fire-prevention you don't get a lot of accolades when things don't blow up.

Yeah, definitely.

I mean that's a yeah, that's it.

That's an interesting one.

Yes, my team is still there, they grew.

Exactly.

Anyway, yeah.

So you know do you have a lot of?

I mean there's so many great things that you've put out there and onto the internet and into bookstores everywhere.

Another thing that I really wanted to mention because I think it's super useful for for all managers and leaders out there is just your your this lock that you've created for everyone there.

So that's something that you continue to run, even though you have now left slack.

Yeah, yeah, there's about, is about 13,000 people.

I was on all active but it's a the game that I played when I solve on that slack is I think hmm.

I wonder if this channel exists and nine times out of ten the channel already exists and there's usually a hundred plus people out there.

It's this really Vibrant Community of leaders and I love to say like I mean yes I created the space for it but it's 99.9% the responsibility of all the people there their community.

That is teaching each other asking each other, each other questions asking all these things that I wish I could have asked when I was a first-time manager.

So yeah, it's there and if people are interested just type in, Iran's leadership slack on the internet and they'll be really obvious how to get in.

Yeah, it's a, I mean, that's something that we highly highly recommend.

I mean, 13,000 members and you know, I can attest that the community is very strong.

You have questions.

People will respond chances.

Are your questions actually been asked before?

So you can do Late, you know, look up things like that.

It's awesome.

You know thank you for obviously creating that in moderating.

It you know, for people on the Journey of just getting better at managing teams and and Leadership what, you know, other than obviously read your books and and join the slack.

What else do you think that people can do or something?

That maybe you do now that you wish you would have started doing Yeah.

Earlier this is sounds like I'm selling the most recent book but it is front of mine for me.

I think my advice is go pick two or three things that you want to work on small things if you will.

And again, I'll say this again, like, do them a thousand times.

Is this, this is something I wrestled with, with, in writing the book is like, my talking about, like, seven effective habits, not talking about habits, I'm not talking about, like, doing repetitive.

Because this is about, you know, to do, yes, that's important.

But the important part of, let's say a regular one-on-ones is not that information is conveyed that but it's about you being consistent as a leader that they can trust that meeting is always going to happen and that they understand that that is a meaning, we're like meaningful, things are going to be discussed.

Like what is what is more important than trust and respect in all directions, on a team.

And the one on one Over time well like show to your team that you care about that.

So the meeting is not that the meetings important.

Yes, the meeting 1000 times in a row is super important because you can learn all of these interesting things about how people communicate and reliability and blah blah blah.

So I'm picking on one on ones because that's kind of my thing.

But what are those two or three things that you think are important tactically?

Perhaps absolutely should do.

Great go do it 100 times in a row like go try it a hundred times but you Starting meetings on time.

Great.

This is how I do it.

It's really awkward.

I tell you, by the way, I'm really a kind of a stickler for meeting starting on time, so 5:00.

Sorry, it's 4:00 my meeting starts, seven.

People are supposed to be there is two people there.

I start the meeting, the two people are like, whoa, where the other like five, four or five people that need to be here and I'm like, what is going to start?

And we start in the be other people show up because they're running late because of blah, blah blah reason.

They don't show up like this time and I want understands that we're going to be respectful to all of everybody here about starting on time and it's not about signing on time it's about trust and respect and efficiency team helping all these other things.

So what are those small things?

You want to work on whatever they are and do them a lot.

That's actually the hard part and it's not the repetition it's the learning from the repetition.

Yeah.

Deliberate practice versus like just being over the place love it and that's probably a great way.

A great place for us.

And a trans.

Thank you so much, really appreciate you coming on the show.

Appreciate it.

Thank you so much.

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