Ciaran: hello and welcome back to the Digital Marketing Podcast, brought to you by target internet.com.

My name is Kean Rogers,

Daniel Rowles: And I'm Daniel Rolls.

Ciaran: and today we have a tips and Tools episode for you.

Daniel Rowles: Well, it has been a while since

Ciaran: It's been a while.

We always say that

Daniel Rowles: Yeah.

And then we did lots and lots, then we did none.

And it's okay, we thought we'd revisit because, and there is a theme tied in, woven into this stuff.

A few random things, but a few things.

The direction of travel with search and generative engines and large language models and all those things.

But don't despair 'cause we keep talking about this stuff, but there's some fun little things in here as well.

Let's.

Let's kind of start with AI Max, 'cause that tells us the direction of things a little bit.

We'll chat around that and then we'll jump into some different tools as well.

So Google AI Max is something, it's been in beta for a while and they've rolled it out, so I think it was in May that they announced it.

Ciaran: Yep.

Daniel Rowles: and they've now rolled it out to pretty much everyone.

And what you'll find is if you go into Google Ads.

You've got, you know, you set your objectives.

I want sales or lead generation, whatever.

It's,

Ciaran: Hm.

Daniel Rowles: based on those objectives, they will give you a number of different campaign types.

But you end up with, you've got performance max, which is basically paid search display, YouTube, gmail, everything kind of rolled into one, But you can still go in and do search as.

search, text ads.

But now when you go in, they're offering us this AI Max option.

So Kira, why don't you start

Ciaran: I,

Daniel Rowles: what

Ciaran: well, so I,

Daniel Rowles: the loop

Ciaran: yeah I was really lucky the guys at Google invited.

Me and my account manager up to Google.

So we went up to London and they Google.

Thank you.

Put on an excellent show.

The, my only criticism is your coffee that you service is terrible.

You can't put coffee in an urn and leave it there for several hours and expect it to be nice.

Let's not leave a bad bitter taste in people's mouths.

Two hours later.

Ciaran: Anyway, aside from that, yeah, the event was excellent and I learned a ton of stuff, but one of the things they were really keen to point out to people, like a lot of people have got the wrong idea about Google AI Max.

'cause they think it's a whole new bidding strategy.

It's not, it's actually really intrinsically tied to your search campaigns.

Right.

So it's kind of new functionality for search ads.

And I think one of the key things I got from my Google account manager was very much that.

Everybody's doing the same thing.

Like we're all rushing to test this, or let's get a separate budget.

Let's test it out.

Let's see how it works, let's learn it.

And actually, in this instance, that's maybe not necessarily the best way of doing this or rolling this out.

'cause actually being searched, it relies on like lots of signals and lots of data from your account.

So if you set up something completely separate, you're sort of slightly on a back foot if you go down that route.

So what is it?

They made a big thing at how it very cleverly uses a lot of key word lus signals.

That they have within their data sets.

So, you know, when you start to unpack this and think about the revolution that's going on before our very eyes, like guys, we're seeing history happen here, right here, there's some really big changes being made this year that are gonna have a knock on effect in a big way to everything we do, not just in marketing, but in, in the real world.

Full stop.

The big shift has been, you know, the introduction of, first of all AI summaries and then AI chat functionality actually within the Google interface.

And what Google is saying is they've seen a huge surge in.

Like the number of searches that they're dealing with are on a day-to-day basis that's massively grown, but also the length of them and also some radical shifts in how people are interacting.

So actually now, because people are a lot more used to like dealing with AI and having back and forth conversations you know, rather than just picking two or three words and doing their search, you know, they're actually, they're seeing searches grow to like eight to 12 words.

Daniel Rowles: But, and it's the context piece that's really interesting to me because the signals they're talking about, the more you read into it, That it's about the sequence of things that you maybe have searched for previously and where you might end

Ciaran: absolutely.

So, so a lot of their, like performance Max for example, did, started the ball rolling on this.

So, you know, that was able to look at a lot of context across a lot of different Google properties, a lots of different stages of the funnel.

To like get a picture of, well, you know, from what we know about the people using Google and the, what does the data say about who's interested in what and who might be enticed into something completely new that they haven't perhaps thought of before.

So, you know, it was a fantastic, it was the first time we'd ever had, you know, one campaign type that could do like full funnel stuff.

Daniel Rowles: Right.

Ciaran: anybody that's, you know, seriously pursued this has, you know, realized fantastic gains from it.

It was, it's brilliant.

It gets harder as everybody jumps on that bandwagon.

'cause suddenly, you know, you don't have that competitive edge.

Your competitors weren't using it.

I think probably, pretty much everybody's probably using Performance Max now.

Some better than others has to be said.

But the thing with this is there's a whole bunch of new signals, I think Google have now got so.

You know, people, as we know for a lot of searches, if they're, particularly if there's like an AI answer like additional summary boxes, you know, a lot of publishers have seen a massive drop in the number of organic clicks that they've been getting.

And Daniel, you were saying, even at Target Internet, we've seen some big shifts, like big improvements in, in like impression rates for sure.

But the problem is no one's scrolling down to where the organic listings are.

'cause the A, they're getting the answer up top.

Daniel Rowles: Yeah.

So just to give people some context, within Search Console, you can see.

How many search impressions you got and you can see how many clicks that you've got, and our impressions are at all time high.

We continue to publish content, we can continue to optimize it where our rankings are getting better all the time.

But actually a number of clicks not an all time low at all because it's, we've been going up gradually over the years, but it's, it has dipped in the last.

Six to 12 months.

And that, that percentage ratio between them is different.

And you're absolutely right.

It's because there are ads at the top of the page.

There's a IO fees, top of the page.

There's all those, you know, different results.

Like we're seeing Reddit show up more,

Ciaran: Yeah.

Daniel Rowles: more videos show up.

'cause they seem to be more human

Ciaran: Yeah.

Daniel Rowles: We're just not getting the clicks in the same way.

Ciaran: You see, Google aren't getting the clicks in the same way either, right?

So that creates a problem.

So previously they would've been able to see, you know, who's clicking on which organic links and that, you know, for their system.

That might put you in the running for certain ads, right?

That would make sense.

Now they're not getting that data either, but what they are getting is a ton of data on who's asking ai what.

You know, who's looking at which AI summaries who's dwelling on a particular summary, and then what's the follow on question, right?

When you've got ai, you can use AI to string together lots and lots of signals like that for every single individual, and produce what I'm assuming is what they're referring to by the key wordless signals.

Daniel Rowles: And I think that's the whole thing is that you might show up, you get really good results for four or five search terms.

You're not getting a click, but you might get a The sixth 'Cause it's a sequence

Ciaran: Yeah.

Daniel Rowles: deduction that people are going through to some extent.

So it's really

Ciaran: Well, it's even more than that in a way when you think about it.

'cause actually somebody might just be researching, I dunno, they might be researching baby names, for example,

Daniel Rowles: right.

Ciaran: That combined with lots of other behavior.

What videos are they watching on YouTube?

You know, What comments are they making in the comments section?

All these things.

They're all, what emails are they getting from who on Gmail?

You know, if you've got the right permit, you've given the right permissions, it's able to use that.

If you've got Chrome, what are the websites that are looking?

It's all being fed into the mix.

And actually when you start to join the dots for a whole bunch of different signals in this way, and you start to train your AI to make use of this, of course there's a ton of value that you can extract for that.

In terms of.

Who would be receptive to, to which kind of advertisers and what kind of message?

I think that's, I mean, it's mind blowingly complex.

That's the first thing I would say.

This is increasingly, I find it very difficult to get my head around, okay, how do you unpick this?

How's this actually working?

But in a way, you don't need to, right.

Daniel Rowles: Well, that's the one I was the things I was gonna say, because increasingly you've got a couple of, if there's three kind of main slider buttons and it's you slide one to say, well, yeah, expand my keywords to keyword list signals and things like that.

And then you talk about creative assets.

Yes you can.

You can create new creative assets and then it goes through and says, and actually can we use different landing pages?

We're gonna select the most appropriate landing page.

Now my terror with that.

Is historical, which is looking at expensive word campaigns where basically what would happen is that it would start fine, oh, well, you're gonna rank well for this keyword and I'm gonna send you through to this landing page.

And the reality is I'm already ranking for that organically.

And it's not a term that's gonna convert at a high rate, Actually campaigns only optimized for achieving your desired outcome.

Ciaran: Yeah.

Daniel Rowles: So they're not gonna do the things it used to do when it was a little bit more basic in from my insight so far.

Ciaran: They've also put a lot more control in than we had initially when Performance Max was released.

So for example, you do have the ability of turning off the, well let Google decide what landing pages it uses.

You know, this is the.

The challenge here, right?

For years, everybody's been optimizing all of their websites and content for the same two to three word phrases, and now suddenly genie's out of the bottle, and no one's using those two, three words such in the same way anymore.

Like for sure, they're still using them.

A lot of people are, you know, skipping a whole section of the discovery phase that they would previously have done within search and through clicking on your organic links and stuff, and they'll just jumping straight to the answer.

And so we're moving from a situation where there was space for, you know, three or four ads and, you know, half a dozen organic links to a place where, frankly, that's not the case anymore.

And they're still there, but no one's clicking them.

Like it reminded me, I was chatting to somebody about it today.

It reminds me of, remember back in, oh, probably go back to 20 11, 20 12 when Google had a whole bunch of not so hot ads on the right hand side.

Daniel Rowles: And

Ciaran: you

Daniel Rowles: the

Ciaran: got like 15 and at the bottom of the page, like 15 like column thin, skinny column of 15 blue links.

And it was funny.

It was reserved for the ads that weren't really quite as relevant.

But we'll show them anyway because it keeps the adv.

Yeah, just give 'em a chance.

And they were terribly low quality and nobody got very good results from them.

And there was outrage when people removed them.

People thought, well, now I'm squeezed into fighting for, you know, top three position.

Well, yeah, but actually when we looked at the data, everyone ignored the long thing, skinny column because it was terrible.

Like it wasn't really very targeted.

Like this is similar in a way, right?

We're going, we're now moving to a place where like, just one thing it's gonna get the edge and maybe a few things might get sort of sub mentions if you look at the sources.

But actually.

Yeah, the game has changed massively and what I'm excited about is AR Max, I think gives us quite early on tools to start chewing into that.

You know, that's the exciting thing.

I think also though, with that we undoubtedly, we've lost a huge amount of.

Perceived control that we had, perhaps once that had over our organic listings.

Like I think people have been asking me, what can we do to rescue our organic position?

I'm like, well, winging a prayer, but nothing really, because every, the world's moved on.

Yeah.

Daniel Rowles: Yeah,

Ciaran: moved on.

Daniel Rowles: talk about that organic piece bit in a moment.

'cause it's gonna come up a load and a few more of the tools we talk about as well.

Before we get into some of that heavier

Ciaran: Yeah.

Daniel Rowles: to a fun tour

Ciaran: Yeah.

Daniel Rowles: This is one you pointed out to me.

This is something in Google Labs, so if you're not

Ciaran: Oh.

Daniel Rowles: Labs do

Ciaran: So Good.

Daniel Rowles: and it's just called Gen Type.

Well again, as ever, everything's in the show notes.

Target internet com podcast.

You explain it.

'cause you showed this to me and I thought this was, it's actually a lot of fun and it could, it's quite useful as

Ciaran: So you, you can create a full on like graphical alphabet.

Daniel Rowles: A font,

Ciaran: a font.

Daniel Rowles: font

Ciaran: Yeah, a font set just by giving it a prompt.

Right?

So I got hold of this and I did something fairly pedestrian and mundane, and I thought, well, that's quite fun.

That handed it to my 15-year-old daughter, Izzy and said, is look at this.

And she was like, OMG.

The first thing she did was she instructed it to create an alphabet made up of vomiting unicorns, but they had to vomit rainbows.

I'm like, wow.

Daniel Rowles: the thing of beauty.

It

Ciaran: I'm waiting for it to produce this thing and it's never gonna cope with that.

And it totally did it.

Daniel Rowles: sure as

Ciaran: Yeah, it totally did it.

Daniel Rowles: But I think the key thing is it's a nice little use case of generative AI creating images, but doing something that's kind of fun with it as

Ciaran: Yeah.

Daniel Rowles: there's loads of useful cases for it as well, but it is a bit of fun.

But there's some nice stuff in Google Labs that you can experiment with and go, actually, I could see that's gonna be applied as well.

So that's gen type.

Take a look at that.

Right.

Let's move on.

LLM refs.

Ciaran: Yeah.

Daniel Rowles: of the many tools that are appearing to try and help you with search engine optimization, but from the generative engine side of things.

So the idea of how do you show up in the AI overviews, how do you show up in chat, GPT and so on.

The nice thing about LLM refs is they have a very robust and solid free trial.

Ciaran: Yeah.

Daniel Rowles: Kieran pointed this out to me.

We've been playing around with it a fair bit.

And rather than doing what HubSpot AI grader does, which is HubSpot AI grader, you put your brand in and it tells you how visible your brand is.

It thinks in a number of different large language models.

This you put a search term in and it tells you the brands that are doing well.

And it shows you how they're kind of branding.

It gives you some scores around those kind of things as well.

So as with any of these tools.

I think there's two main issues.

One, it starts to make you realize how complicated, really unpicking this generative engine optimization piece is how you show up in a large language model, how many things there are to think about.

And we'll come to that point in a moment 'cause Kieran was talking to me about that.

But also.

Where's the testing to prove this?

Where's the data to back this up?

Where is the definitive case?

Oh, this is what it is now.

It's gonna be fixed like this for a period of time.

I think there's a lot of people just testing, trying, experimenting, coming up with tools.

This is a great example of a tool, but I don't think there is a definitive answer to these questions yet.

So that, and that's part of the game.

It always has been.

SEO.

He is trying to understand it and game it and get there before other people and so on

Ciaran: Yeah.

Daniel Rowles: But it is complicated, and I think that actually search has been complicated than people have realized for a 'Cause a lot of this stuff was going on in the background with the Google algorithm when they started to bring AI into the Google algorithm.

Anyway, so really this idea of understanding SEO.

Generative engine optimization, if it's the same thing or something separate, has actually got wildly more complicated, and there's just so much more to do that it becomes slightly overwhelming and therefore you're gonna need help with this.

Ciaran: It is every time this iterates, it becomes exponentially more complicated.

Right?

So what do I mean by that?

Well, let's just go on a journey through time, shall we?

Like back in the day?

There was Google and there was one like search index.

And then few years later we had, you know, mobile search results were sometimes slightly different.

So that complicated things.

And then there was this massive revolution that sort of happened silently, where actually there was no such thing as being number one in Google.

You had to ask number one for who.

And then number one for who and where and on what device

Daniel Rowles: Right.

Ciaran: And in what context.

Right?

So each time this happens, you're massively adding to the number of variables, and it's led to like a running joke actually.

I, I was at this year's Brighton, SEO.

The running joke was, you know, when you ask an SEO any question.

They say, you know, the answer is always, ah, well it's complicated

Daniel Rowles: Right.

Ciaran: because it's, and it's getting more complicated by the day.

So this is the thing.

I think the it, I'm really quite sick of hearing senior marketers, you know, marketing directors, you know who you are.

You, you'll recognize the people that have wound me up.

You'll know who I'm having to go at, right?

Like they go off, they look at some webinar that's shoved at them for free on LinkedIn and they come back thinking they've got all the answers.

'cause they've found this expert who thinks that, you know, this is really and they announced to their team that we need to get on top of AI search and like.

Just because they've identified that there's an issue there, they've solved it, they've staked the ground, and they now own this.

Right?

And it's just really annoying.

So if you are in this, caught in these headlights right now, I'm sure a lot of you are actually the ll M refs.com demo will help you to explain to these senior serial summarizes, we'll call them.

That's what they do.

They're like ah, blatantly sim

Daniel Rowles: summarizes.

Ciaran: blatantly simplifying ridiculously complicated things, right?

Because you can show them with this.

Actually, let's just, with using the free version, let's just run the numbers on one key phrase.

Like pick one really popular key phrase and what it'll do is it'll ping out how like the top like 30 like references in not just one, but like almost a dozen different large language learning models and

Daniel Rowles: It

Ciaran: the little top, yeah there's little top right hand dropdown you wanna look at, right?

'cause I hadn't spotted it initially.

You sort of miss it in the interface, but actually you can choose.

The results that you're getting, like, well, what do you wanna look at?

Do you wanna look at Claude or chat GBT or do you wanna look at you know, Gemini AI or Google answers, or, you know, what element do you wanna include within this summary?

And it calculates it all up for you.

And it is just mind boing.

And that's just for one phrase.

This is something we've gone from like one source to like.

Like almost a dozen, just in one foul leap.

And the dust really hasn't settled on which of these are gonna be most influential.

You know, no one knows which is gonna be the most influential large language learning model in one space this time next year.

Or even a Chris like Christmas this year.

No one really knows how, where that's gonna go or how that's gonna roll out.

Remember there's a massive arms race going on with the functionality that's available to various different people at the moment.

So, so for that reason, I think l.

Refs deserves a very cool mention.

You get a ton of value out of it if you

Daniel Rowles: free one.

Yeah,

Ciaran: to it.

Yeah.

But if you subscribe, you can do a lot more.

Like it is very much locked down.

But I think just looking at that demo, it's so easy to access.

You just connected to a Google account and away you go.

Daniel Rowles: Now

Ciaran: yeah.

Daniel Rowles: They've upset me with one thing though.

Ciaran: Oh, they did upset you, didn't they?

Yeah.

Daniel Rowles: quite drastically.

So on, on one of their kind of blog type pages.

And we are just having a little browse round as we do, make sure we kind of think the tool's.

Okay.

And the headline said, and I'm not gonna go into this because I'm gonna get dragged down a rabbit hole and I don't wanna, he said, meta descriptions are the new H

Ciaran: Oh,

Daniel Rowles: I then lost the bill to live.

It was just like no.

Ciaran: did that upset you, Daniel?

Daniel Rowles: Just because this idea, you know how long I spent, I reckon I spent eight years telling people meta descriptions had no impact on Google, right?

Other than it would show up and it might get a higher click through rate, but it wasn't directly impacting the algorithm.

And I remember repeating things and then they, is that the same as meta keywords?

And I was like no, it's a different thing completely, but your H one's really important and that, and now we're saying things like this is the same as this.

To what your point was earlier on.

Like someone will hear something at a conference and go, that's the gospel Right?

And it is that a little knowledge has always been a dangerous

Ciaran: yeah,

Daniel Rowles: I work in lots of organizations, worked in academia a lot to big universities,

Ciaran: yeah.

Daniel Rowles: a professor would come back, go, why aren't we ranking for this search

Ciaran: Yeah.

Daniel Rowles: would just be, 'cause it's not relevant because it's just not in the user journey.

And it was just one of those kind of

Ciaran: Well, my favorite because I, according to Google, only 30 people a month search for that.

Like, you know, that's.

Daniel Rowles: Right, exactly.

It's like no one's searching for it, except we're getting 10,000 visits a month on that search term.

So I'm not sure that's true, but yeah.

Anyway let's move swiftly on.

I hope LLM refs, if you're listening, you can redeem yourself by leaving us a comment of what you were saying with that and we will get into it.

Right.

Actually on this, I thought this was quite interesting.

Google have published some advice, AI experience advice, and it's like you get the lovely Google documentation that says this is how search works and this is what you should do, and it gives you the really kind of straightforward stuff.

They've actually written some really nice stuff about succeeding in AI search, and it talks about those fundamentals of, you know, the good quality content, understanding user intent.

Knowledge graph connections between things.

So we'll put the link into the show notes 'cause it's developer.google.com.

Understand their search section.

But this is something you highlighted for me.

And it's not to say this is a completely robust tool, but it did get me thinking on the lines of, actually search has been more complicated than we've realized for a while, which was the knowledge graph explorer.

So let's take a step back.

The knowledge graph is the idea that Google works on entities.

That is the connections between different things.

It will know that Target internet is a company, it will know that digital marketing podcast is a podcast.

Ki iss a person, Daniel's a person, and it'll kind of know the connections between those things.

And that's how it's working out to some extent, connections the kind of semantic connections, the context, but also the validity in the kind of authenticity and authority of those things as well.

So it's a.

Very interesting color piece, but the knowledge graph, explore this thing.

You can put something in and it will tell you the things it's connected to.

Now it's reasonably limited, it does show you that you can kind of play around with this knowledge graph a little bit.

It was interesting that I put the company name in and all it came up with was my name and our managing director's name.

and then when I had, it had lots and lots of different Daniel Rose, so I clicked through to some of those.

Some are with me as an author, others were, me as a movie star.

I was quite

Ciaran: That you apparently were a movie star in a black and white movie back in the 1930s.

Daniel Rowles: I've aged very well,

Ciaran: You have?

Yeah.

Daniel Rowles: so, so it's very imperfect, but what it does get you thinking about is that connection between things is really important that's what these large language models, and that's what Google are trying to work out, is authority.

Authenticity and all those things that you've got in e experience, expertise, and trust and so on.

really all we're getting to is SEO is dead again.

And I'm sorry to go down this path again, but it's just like the more complex it gets, the less I'm gonna think about it.

'cause it's just a bit

Ciaran: It is overwhelming, but I think what was really interesting about that example you just gave was that clearly it had got it wrong.

And then this is what you all need to be doing is looking at tools like this and going, well, what has this got wrong about us, our organization?

Daniel Rowles: it.

Ciaran: And so I've been using this and working out, well, why doesn't it know that we're a member of, you know, this big important thing that we're a member of?

Daniel Rowles: Yeah.

Ciaran: Oh.

Because actually we haven't made it obvious on our.

Like we've linked, you know, maybe we've linked to, you know, just the organization's logo, but we haven't like, put the hyperlink in there or, you know, little things like what's on our about page, do we mention it there?

Like, you need to make this stuff really clear and then the AI will trip over it and go, ah, okay.

I understand the context.

Like it's smart, but it's not clairvoyant.

Right.

You have to create the links.

You have create the links.

Daniel Rowles: smart, but it's not clairvoyant.

like that.

I think that it just ends up basically being so complicated because saying what shows up in organic search?

What shows up in these different LLMs, what's being referenced in each of those LLM results?

What are the AI over?

And you kind of get, oh, this overwhelming and actually.

These fundamental building blocks of understanding user intent, doing your structured schema markup.

and actually we will do an episode entirely on this because I think Such an important topic.

So, or do

Ciaran: Yep.

Daniel Rowles: on that.

So actually within the code saying this is an article, this is an f, a Q,

Ciaran: Yep.

Daniel Rowles: of things as well.

just making connections between things, 'cause the knowledge graph and so on.

All of this is building up that overarching picture.

As well.

Advocacy, really important people saying nice things, leaving reviews, all those kind of things as well.

So I do think, yes, there are new tools, it's changing very rapidly, but still coming back some of those fundamentals, Right?

Another one, somebody that did get in contact, 'cause we're gonna give the opportunity to get in contact the moment, but somebody that did get in contact

Ciaran: Yeah.

Daniel Rowles: Zoomer.

Ciaran: Oh.

Daniel Rowles: And what ADD Zoomer allows you to do is to connect up all of your ad platforms into one place and manage them from a place wherever you're an individual organization or an agency as well.

Ciaran: I've used ad it's good.

And it do some, it's a great tool.

It does a lot of stuff like it, it looks around a lot of corners for you.

And I like the fact that it, you know, like all of your ad platforms it covers a lot of them.

So yeah, check it out.

It's good.

Daniel Rowles: It brings it into one place and it'll also Google ads,

Ciaran: I.

Daniel Rowles: but also it'll bring in your Google Analytics and those kind of things as well.

And they've given us a discount code.

As well.

So if you wanna take a look at it there is a free trial, but if you do, sign up.

Gonna discount target internet com podcast.

Ciaran: I've got an extra tool I wanna squeeze in.

'cause I got very excited about this.

I've only just started playing around with it, but it's a tool by Google and it's called Notebook lm.

Daniel Rowles: I Mentioned this a few times, but I was gonna say, I don't think you played with it

Ciaran: No, I've been playing around with a little bit more.

What I love about it is you can upload your own data into it, and then it becomes a language model just purely focused on what you've given it, and I think that's massively exciting.

Daniel Rowles: One example of this, I was playing this the other day and I went through and uploaded five podcasts it will transcribe them for you and then you can query them as a whole.

I was trying to understand how much we'd mentioned S-E-O-G-E-O, LLMs and all those kind of things.

But what was lovely is it will create a mind map.

Ciaran: Yeah.

Daniel Rowles: And actually in the last couple of podcasts, I've included the mind maps that it's Back

Ciaran: clever.

Daniel Rowles: As well, just so just to get people get an idea of About.

Played with it, it's brilliant

Ciaran: it's just got so much potential.

There's so many clever ways you could do this.

Well, well, it's got me thinking is maybe that's where we need to go with the complexity that we're facing.

Daniel Rowles: We were talking about this in an organization I was in the other day about trusted sources, And actually you could do this already with a decent prompt, which is say, get me the latest digital marketing news, but only from How about you could create a version of Google or a large language model that just looked at the websites that you trusted said, I don't wanna get it from everyone.

I just wanna look at these places.

Now, it might limit your viewpoint.

You'll be really careful of the echo chamber type thing that makes that even worse.

Actually this is kind of where it's going.

If you look at chat, g, PT and Gemini, the fact they have connectors that allows you to connect your internal tools and things like that is definitely the direction of travel as well.

And we will get into that whole agents piece again in future kind of episodes.

As well, I wanna give a shout to one more tool, which we'll put into show notes before we finish up.

And it's one that we've spoken about before, but our friends over at nutshell.

So, if you're not familiar, nutshell is a CRM.

System, but it was basically a bit of an outlier.

Originally, it, we had a very specific use case.

And it's grown they really pride themselves in is robustness of the tool.

And it is an absolutely excellent tool, but actually from a pricing point of view, it's much lower cost than a lot of the other CRMs that are out there.

it's very transparent on its pricing.

In terms of you need this package, and then you've got 20,000 contacts, right?

Here's your price.

So I really do recommend it, but they have given us a discount code.

So 15% off when you sign up.

If you are.

Looking at CRMs one, take a look at it.

And we are doing a big comparison of CRMs coming up as well.

And nutshell is coming up very well in our comparisons at the moment.

, If you have got a tool we haven't spoken about, please do submit it .

We do Take a look at them.

And thank you as ever for listening to the Digital Marketing podcast.

For more episodes, resources to leave a review or to get in contact, go to target internet.com/podcast.